just curious can note 7 avoid this catastrophe if the battery was removeable ,what are your views ?
Since we don't know what the cause was, my opinion is I don't know (well, I read something I haven't seen anywhere on the boards or any other news source but one but I won't state it because I have been accused of reading the news, it is in a language most won't understand anyway). But I am confident they should be able to fix the issue. I would largely prefer them to keep the IP68 rating.
You asked for some views so here are mine, much to the chagrin of many I'm sure but that's ok, that's just fine, really.
Based on currently available information which includes how Li-Ion batteries actually work, I personally would say the actual reason(s) that the Note 7 devices are considered to be defective is not because of the battery itself. So, while having a removable battery is a great thing - and I prefer devices that have removable batteries personally and only buy such devices with my own cash (I got my GS7A as a trade for a laptop so it didn't cost me any cash out of pocket).
Try this hypothetical situation for just a moment, if you will.
Without naming name brands or particular models, say you have a smartphone that has a removable back cover and a removable battery inside. To get to that battery and remove it you must handle the device well enough to be able to get at the back cover, probably find the tiny little gap that most have so you can insert a fingernail into it or perhaps a nail file, a butter knife, anything at all that can fit in that little gap so you can then start to lift the back cover off the device, unsnapping the retainer clips as you do so.
Follow me so far?
After the back cover is fully removed from the device you then have to remove the actual battery itself. Most removable batteries have a spot where you can "hook" a fingernail into and then pull gently to pry the battery up and out of the frame of the phone itself. If necessary you can probably turn the smartphone display side up and then smack the phone into your palm and the battery would probably drop out into hand, but generally most people just use their fingernail or perhaps a spudger to pry the battery loose from the device.
Voila, you've removed the battery entirely, congratulations.
Now here's where it gets interesting:
Say this smartphone has a defect that is occurring at random times on some devices - some of them will exhibit the defect (as cause and effect) and some devices may never exhibit it because of the random nature of how it presents itself. Considering this random nature of the defect presenting itself, say that at some point either while you are actually using your smartphone in your hand, or it's in your pocket, or it's mounted to your dash in your car with a holder, or it's sitting on a desk or table, or anywhere at all really and...
It starts smoking.
I mean it literally starts smoking and the smoke is quiet visible and you can see it easily. You can even smell it as it's happening. If the phone is in your hand when it starts smoking your most common reaction will be to drop the device right then and there, especially if in addition to the smoke you feel some heat buildup, like it was somewhat cool a few seconds ago but now it's smoking and it's getting damned hot, fast.
Again, most people in that situation are going to drop the device immediately.
But your device has a removable battery under the removable back cover, right? So...
If you dropped the device because it was smoking and getting hot there's a chance, a small chance but a chance nonetheless, that in the act of dropping your device when it hits the ground or it lands on a desktop or table top it might just cause the back cover to pop off and the battery might just pop out of the device entirely. That's a possible thing, right, you can actually imagine that dropping a smartphone with a removable back cover and removable battery might just make the back cover pop off and the battery pop out.
Still following me? Good but here's my point.
If you have a smartphone and it starts smoking, anywhere - be it in your hand, pocket, dash holder, tripod holder for pictures, on a flat surface, in a pool, under water, in a toilet, desktop, table, gravel, dirt, sand, on a road, it doesn't matter - the primary way to get the battery out of that device means you have to remove the back cover and then remove the battery and that requires you to hold it but since it's smoking and getting hotter by the second that's not really an option anymore.
So what then? Does that mean having a removable battery is a bad thing? Well, no, not really, but in a situation where the device fails in some manner and causes - that's the important thing here, the cause - the battery to fail as well and burn itself up it means you could potentially suffer some injury yourself because you have to manually remove the back cover then the battery.
tl;dr Yes it's a good thing to have a removable battery, but if a device with a removable battery fails and you want to remove the battery during the failure hoping to save the device itself from further damage, you might be injured yourself because you have to handle the device to some degree to get that failing battery out before it does damage the device or in the most extreme situation explode which destroys the device and also might release the gases from the battery which are incredibly toxic to humans.
I'm just speculating here.
My answer is: Maybe.
If I read is correct and the fault lies with the design flaw more than a battery defect, having removable battery would mean losing water resistance and the curve design, and maybe not apply too much pressure on to the physical battery itself.
What I do know is, if we had removable battery, Samsung would have avoided a full on major recall and just exchange the battery. If size is a problem, maybe a smaller capacity in exchange for safety. And maybe a small refund or a token of gesture to make up for the smaller capacity.
Oh well. What a waste.
Aimara said:
just curious can note 7 avoid this catastrophe if the battery was removeable ,what are your views ?
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IF the battery is-was the problem then your question has an obvious answer. WE don't know yet what the problem is so no one can yet say.
Its yet more of these threads with yet more speculation over a done and dusted deal.
Ryland
I do agree with broadband. Even with removable batteries, if the batteries were damage, I wont be fast enough to remove it to prevent total loss.
But yah, it will drastically affect the recall process. Recall batteries are still better than the whole phone. And there will be plentybof after market alternatives to tide over temporarily
One of the reason is also easy troubleshooting , but a faulty set is needed to test the theory, example a faulty note 7 came with a removable battery, reports states that it will get extremely hot before smoking up, sure many of you who own Samsung older version of phones, changing battery is quite fast if the techniques is right, ok just a example, if the first one is a sdi battery as claimed, went faulty, threw it off before smoking up.
Went to claim from Samsung, which is ampere battery(forgot the name), if it didn't does a thermal? What's the deduction then?
If the second battery did smoke up, high chance its the phone issue? Of course this is just a theory, with all the reported note 7 smoking up and burned like crisp, it's quite hard to csi it.
Based on my observations, it seems like the replacement units are more prone to blowing up than the original. Even with the ATL batteries.
Related
Beware of family jewels if you're carrying WM7 phone in your front pants pocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm0AkFUYpLQ&feature=player_embedded
WOW, there are a lot os sick people but this is the sickest of all
I'm not looking for knee jerk reaction to this video. This is a valid question from someone who's familiar with four corner testing which includes thermal testing. The correct behavior is to shut down once a temperature threshold is reached as seen with the Android and iOS devices. The WM7 device dangerously continues to operate beyond threshold.
mi7chy said:
I'm not looking for knee jerk reaction to this video. This is a valid question from someone who's familiar with four corner testing which includes thermal testing. The correct behavior is to shut down once a temperature threshold is reached as seen with the Android and iOS devices. The WM7 device dangerously continues to operate beyond threshold.
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"Beware of family jewels if you're carrying WM7 phone in your front pants pocket."
"I'm not looking for knee jerk reaction"
then ask for a normal reaction , if you only post this video from an idiot burning 3 of the most expensive phones on a grill you can expect these reactions .
This is a valid question from someone who's familiar with four corner testing which includes thermal testing
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oh , and offcourse they do that all on a 10 bugs grill
No need to get emotional. This is a silly stunt video indeed but there is something to gain from it since it might expose the lack of or malfunction of thermal shutdown protection in WM7. A lot of people including myself keep their phone in their front pants pocket. Why wouldn't they be concerned f thermal shutdown protection isn't working and knowing that lithium batteries can be unpredictable when exceeding normal operating temperature?
Lithium batteries explode because of impurities in the electrolyte (or whatever it's called there) causing short circuits. This is purely an internal condition, and no thermal shutdown protection will save your gonads if it happens. So relax and get a life really.
vangrieg said:
Lithium batteries explode because of impurities in the electrolyte (or whatever it's called there) causing short circuits. This is purely an internal condition, and no thermal shutdown protection will save your gonads if it happens. So relax and get a life really.
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Wrong dear. This thread doesn't apply to you if you have no family jewels.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dell-battery-fire.htm
"batteries could overheat, potentially causing burns, an explosion or a fire"
"If the battery gets hot through use or recharging, the pieces of metal can move around, much like grains of rice in a pot of water. If a piece of metal gets too close to the separator, it can puncture the separator and cause a short circuit. There are a few possible scenarios for what can go wrong in the case of a short circuit:
If it creates a spark, the flammable liquid can ignite, causing a fire.
If it causes the temperature inside the battery to rise rapidly, the battery can explode due to the increased pressure."
and we see all 3 devices explode at the end of the video (I don't know which version is linked, the one I saw yesterday had all 3's batteries swell and burst, and the flames flared up)
ceesheim said:
"Beware of family jewels if you're carrying WM7 phone in your front pants pocket."
"I'm not looking for knee jerk reaction"
then ask for a normal reaction , if you only post this video from an idiot burning 3 of the most expensive phones on a grill you can expect these reactions .
oh , and offcourse they do that all on a 10 bugs grill
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Why is he an idiot? If I could afford to cook three expensive phones, I'd probably have the kind of job an idiot wouldn't. Please explain.
mi7chy said:
Wrong dear. This thread doesn't apply to you if you have no family jewels.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dell-battery-fire.htm
"batteries could overheat, potentially causing burns, an explosion or a fire"
"If the battery gets hot through use or recharging, the pieces of metal can move around, much like grains of rice in a pot of water. If a piece of metal gets too close to the separator, it can puncture the separator and cause a short circuit. There are a few possible scenarios for what can go wrong in the case of a short circuit:
If it creates a spark, the flammable liquid can ignite, causing a fire.
If it causes the temperature inside the battery to rise rapidly, the battery can explode due to the increased pressure."
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Nice detective work there... you quoted a laptop battery article.
This has nothing to do with Windows Phone 7 and is mere sensationalism to create a non-fact base, non-realistic controversy.
Btw if you create a spark or rapidly rise the temperature on anything, it usually catches on fire or explodes. That applies to 99% of everything on this planet.
I'm not sure if it really matters. As someone mentioned, all three ended up going because they were continually exposed to the high temperature. Simply shutting the device down wouldn't prevent that in this scenario.
Lesson learned: don't grill your phone.
XeNoMoRpH1030 said:
I'm not sure if it really matters. As someone mentioned, all three ended up going because they were continually exposed to the high temperature. Simply shutting the device down wouldn't prevent that in this scenario.
Lesson learned: don't grill your phone.
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you have to look the other way around ( that was external heating , if that was the way you would be already dead before the phone explode )
the os has to shut down when it get internally hot ( like a software bug , overcharging the batt , or a gps + wifi making the phone go hot )
and that is there , when I turn on wifi and gps and I am charging the batt the phone will reboot after some time (it reboot because it is on charge )
edit: I only think it is a bug that the phone reboot after a shutdown by overheating.
edit: ps it is WP7 and not WM7
XeNoMoRpH1030 said:
Lesson learned: don't grill your phone.
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Amen to that brother!
No but really. The point is that the phone doesn't shut down if it would overheat on it's own. So, say that the phone by some reason should overheat to the point where there is a risk of the battery exploding.
i think if you phone gets hot enough to need to shut down...it's over anyway. Shutting down automatically isn't gonna save anything. There will be no cases of burnt faces like with the iPhone
Krissrock said:
i think if you phone gets hot enough to need to shut down...it's over anyway. Shutting down automatically isn't gonna save anything. There will be no cases of burnt faces like with the iPhone
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It depends if the battery explodes or not.
smuook said:
Nice detective work there... you quoted a laptop battery article.
This has nothing to do with Windows Phone 7 and is mere sensationalism to create a non-fact base, non-realistic controversy.
Btw if you create a spark or rapidly rise the temperature on anything, it usually catches on fire or explodes. That applies to 99% of everything on this planet.
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Except the water, and it is 70% of the planet's surface
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FcwRYfUBLM
I guess we should stay away from water and microwaves too...
It must be true cause I saw it on the Internet.
There are some who get it and the majority who don't. Unfortunately, the majority think that the HTC WP7 won while the HTC Android failed in the video. Or, that the added cost of thermal shutdown protection now built into phones is not there for a reason. Or, those that keep stating the obvious that lithium batteries burst when exposed to fire but fail to comprehend how the phone should've behave prior to reaching that critical point. These are probably the same people who will argue that a faulty smoke detector is of no consequence because houses seldom catch on fire or that you would know about it if it happened without a working smoke detector or that it would be too late even with a functional smoke detector. To each his own ballz. Let Darwin sort them out.
mi7chy said:
...Or, those that keep stating the obvious that lithium batteries burst when exposed to fire but fail to comprehend how the phone should've behave prior to reaching that critical point.
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I think you don't get it. The whole scenario and entering arguments for this are unrealistic and ridiculous. Nobody cares.
I have a HTC Hero, and noticed recently the cover seems to be almost popping off a little bit by the volume rocker, I thought I maybe broke a clip taking it off/putting it on a lot (I tend to do it a lot while I'm bored lol)
I noticed today however when I push it on, it comes back off. I took the cover off, and the battery seems to be almost popping out. I push it in, and it pops out a bit more. I held it in front of me and each side isn't straight, one is raised maybe a millimetre in the middle
Is this still safe to use, and is it covered by a warranty?
I would not use it. Batteries are actually fairly dangerous because of the lithium parts. They can, in rare cases, catch fire. I don't know why a battery would bulge out, but I can't imagine it being any good.
I'd try to look for warranty. If you don't have warranty (I'm not sure if it's covered) you can buy a new one from DealExtreme for a mere 5 USD, shipped free. But those batteries are fairly low quality, so using them is not actually recommended.
It might be an idea to buy a new one off eBay, or email htc about your problem.
Nothing to worry about the battery is overused/overcharged that is it won't funvction properly any more and it might cause damage to your phone...best suggetsion is to buy another battery
I had this issue with my HTC Glacier. I was swapping ROMs on my phone without having a fully charged battery and I believed that messed with the phone's abilty to detect the charge level. I ended up overcharging the battery without realizing it and it developed a bulge. I had to get a new battery because the phone would eventually crash even with a full charge and then reboot showing 0% battery.
I don't know if I am being paranoid, but I feel the slightest tingle/itch in my hand when holding the GNEX (gsm), this is not when the phone is charging just during normal use. Took it back to shop the guys there thought I was crazy
Anyone notice anything similar?
It might be the 3 pogo pins on the side of the phone. Try putting sticky tape over them and see if it changes anything. Some people are just more susceptible to getting shocked than others.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Certainly can't rule out entirely the possibility that you're feeling something, but the chance is extremely remote.
The battery is a standard LiIon single cell @ 3.7V. When operating, it's probably around 3.5-3.6. That is well below the sensitivity threshold for virtually everyone on skin.
Further, if you were this sensitive, you would have encountered other low voltages that tingled your fingers/hand over and over, so you likely would know what this was already. Heck, if 3.5 volts gives you a tingle, handling a 9V battery would be rather uncomfortable!
It's likely psychosomatic, or maybe some peripheral nerve reaction to the pressure from holding the edge of the phone -- not uncommon when pressure is applied to a narrow ridgeline in the palm or fingers.
Thanks guys. I think I probably am a bit extra sensitive to dc current. I'm just worried that I might have a defective unit. I've been to few shops and the demo units are housed into anti-theft devices so u can't actually hold the phone.
ok, I found that when input the phone in airplane mode I don't feel the tingle. it's got to be a faulty unit. I am going on Holliday in a few hours for a week, will take back to the shop when I return and get them to exchange it.
Hey guys, I have the problem indicated in the video below, where basically a sudden shock to the back of the phone near the camera can cause it to power down completely (happens wehn resting the phone on a table, in pocket etc).
I've found reports of other people having this problem but no solution. My question is does anyone with the Samsung extended battery (GSM/HSPA+ version btw) with battery door experience this problem as well? I'm wondering if the extra space (I'm assuming) will sort of buffer the area and alleviate the problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdTVYnCEb7Y
checkmeout said:
Hey guys, I have the problem indicated in the video below, where basically a sudden shock to the back of the phone near the camera can cause it to power down completely (happens wehn resting the phone on a table, in pocket etc).
I've found reports of other people having this problem but no solution. My question is does anyone with the Samsung extended battery (GSM/HSPA+ version btw) with battery door experience this problem as well? I'm wondering if the extra space (I'm assuming) will sort of buffer the area and alleviate the problem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdTVYnCEb7Y
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I've use both standard and official extended batteries. Never had this issue occur, then again, I usually don't go tapping the back of my phone often either. In fact, I'm usually quite gentle with multi-hundred dollar devices. Still, definitely looks like the battery / battery pins are loose. If it were my phone, I'd try being extra careful with it and seeing if a small piece of paper/cardboard/etc can be used to stabilize the battery connection. If not, and you have warranty/insurance I'd talk to warranty/insurance about repair/replacement. If you're extra handy you might try seeing if you can make the connection more stable yourself.
JaiaV said:
I've use both standard and official extended batteries. Never had this issue occur, then again, I usually don't go tapping the back of my phone often either. In fact, I'm usually quite gentle with multi-hundred dollar devices. Still, definitely looks like the battery / battery pins are loose.
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Yeah I thought it was loose too. I tried chucking both the battery and the little plastic rectangle part with the contacts with a piece of paper and it still turned off in my pocket though :-(
checkmeout said:
Yeah I thought it was loose too. I tried chucking both the battery and the little plastic rectangle part with the contacts with a piece of paper and it still turned off in my pocket though :-(
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Just to add a bit, I tried reproducing this issue (still gently), and was unable to do so with either my standard or extended battery.
Okay, hello XDA Forums peoples! Ive been lurking here for like a decade. I feel bad for bothering you nice people, but now I'm at my wits end with this phone.
Okay, so, long story short:
Z Fold 3, let it run the One U.I. 4 update, bricked the whole phone, wouldnt come back on. This happens a week away from being out of warranty. So i get samsung to agree to let Asurion/uBreakiFix repair it (I almost always fix my own electronics, I hate Asurion, I've had problems dealing with them before, but its free so whatever). Well they get it working, i asked what they did and they were basically like 'uhhh idk'. I assume it was just an 'unplug the battery and plug it back in' kind of thing.
Anyways fast forward to a couple months ago. Im walking along the creek, i always keep my phone in my backpack for safety. Zipper on my backpack comes open some, phone falls out and directly into the water for about 3-5 seconds. Goes black within 15 minutes. Alright, so it seems like maybe the boys who worked on this didnt seal it back properly. Whatever.
I let it dry for about 4 or 5 days. Comes back on, everything works except the front screen's digitizer(which is cool for me, because the inside screen still works fine) and its reporting too cold to charge, so now once the battery runs out i have a new foldable brick! Yay! I check the battery temperature thats reported in settings and its completely fine. I hit it with a hair dryer for like 5 minutes to try and trip the thermometer, and nothing happens.
I tried some cheap shots in the dark, i replace the USB charging board, i replace the wireless charging coil, both of which have thermistors on other older samsung phones, so i figured it was a decent guess. Still too cold to charge.
So I find a schematic, or not exactly a schematic, but like a boardview, i guess. So at least i know where the thermistors are to check them. Theres about 10 thermistors on the main and sub boards. 5 of which are covered by metal shielding which i am just terrified of trying to remove, mainly because i havent done it before. So i check the other half.
The thermistors used in these phones are like inverse, so they have less resistance for higher temps and more resistance for lower temps. If one of them is dead, it will have like "maximum resistance", right? Which would report the coldest possible temperature, right? So that all makes sense, to me at least.
The 5 i can get to with my meter to check, they seem to work completely fine. From what research ive done they seem to be like 100k resistors when measured at ~70 degrees f, and i can watch the resistance go up and down when its cooled or heated past that temperature. Okay, perfect. That all checks out.
Because the other ones are under some metal shielding, i assume theyre most likely fine because any water would have a harder time getting in there. So i skip to the most expensive option so far: i buy two replacement batteries. The schematics do not include the battery, so i dont know where the thermistors are on my current batteries to check them, if that was the problem.
Well, batteries came yesterday, i pop them in, still too cold to charge. I've already ran the phone dead checking it, so i cant do any further diagnostics with the phone on. And now the most i get is a Yield sign with a thermometer in it when i plug it in.
Okay, so... Idk?? This problem is starting to get over my head. What do y'all think? It seems like my options are becoming more limited and expensive.
I can try and put a big blob of solder on the top of the shielding and pull it off to check the remaining thermistors, which seems to be how people remove those things. I also have have hot air at my disposal, which is always risky with tiny things because too high airspeed might blow components away on the board and then i'll probably cry.
It could just be a connector somewhere on some flex cable? Maybe? I mean like maybe what if one of them is for reporting temperature, and water corrosion is stopping it from sending a signal through???
Im fine with doing whatever, but i just want a charged battery first so i can recover my data before i do anything that drastic. I mean, back in the day they had 4 big pads on a removable battery. You could buy a universal samsung battery charger or rig a USB cable to charge it, but I have literally no idea what to do here. Does anyone know of some specialized battery charger that will connect to these flex cables?? That would be a gigantic help right now. Or if i knew where to get a Z Fold 3 just to pop it open and charge my battery with? Or maybe just sit there for 2 hours holding two wires to the positive and negative pins?!??!?? I dont know. Someone throw ideas at me, please!
Might be worth buying a bench power supply and either injecting voltage through the phone or connecting it to the cells to trickle charge them back up? Im not an expert it these just throwing ideas