Develop Bugs

[Q] Neo - Question about camera compression

I'm thinking to buy a Neo this week and it will be my first Android phone. In a few reviews I've seen some complaints about the .jpg's being over compressed using the stock camera app. If you use a different camera app are you able to set it for less compression and better pictures?

Hi mattarse
The jpg compression is fine as it is, I believe the discussion on the compression has been started due to very high expectations of the camera in the new xperia phones. The camera IS very good I think considering it is a mobile phone with a very small camera sensor.
Pictures will when you magnify them on your pc never look as good as a dslr or newer compact camera with bigger sensors and better optics. This is probable what started the jpg compression discussion as it would have been nice to just change the jpg compression level and have super sharp pictures even when you zoom in.
The Camera Advance app will give you the option to change the compression but my own tests show no visual difference from the xperia camera app and the picture from camera advance. File size differences was 1MB from xperia camera and 2.2MB from camera advance app.
Camera360 Ultimate will give pictures at the same sizes as the xperia camera app even when you select the finest compression level.
I personally prefer to use the xperia camera app compared to camera360 and camera advance.
I have allways enjoyed photography and normally use a dslr. This is actually the first mobile phone where I have started to use the camera as I have allways disliked the picture quality from my older mobiles. It is amazing to see pictures at iso 1600-2000 being useable from this small camera, the low light performance is very good and the dynamic range under sunlight is also very good.
I have the xperia arc and not neo, but I belive the camera is the same on both mobiles. Have seen some samples from neo where it actually looks like it is producing better pictures, could be due to different optics in the slightly bigger mobile or just differences in firmware.

Well I've bought a Neo for my wife recently. But was surprised also to see the size of the files for an 8mp camera. I was also surprised there is no option for the level of compression.
What is more important that the camera does not produce good quality for darker rooms.(in a room with 15*10W halogen light bulbs). The pictures have a visible yellow-greenish tint and a lot of noise. I haven't tried on outside just yet.
May be my expectation are too high. But I still think this is a marketing trick. They could have easily put a sensor with less density (5mp or 6mp) which is supposed to produce less noise.

valqka said:
Well I've bought a Neo for my wife recently. But was surprised also to see the size of the files for an 8mp camera. I was also surprised there is no option for the level of compression.
What is more important that the camera does not produce good quality for darker rooms.(in a room with 15*10W halogen light bulbs). The pictures have a visible yellow-greenish tint and a lot of noise. I haven't tried on outside just yet.
May be my expectation are too high. But I still think this is a marketing trick. They could have easily put a sensor with less density (5mp or 6mp) which is supposed to produce less noise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do believe the exmoor sensor has improved low light performance compared to a regular mobile camera sensor. But this is still only a small camera and even my dslr would struggle indoor with only artificial lighting unless flash is added.
Have only shot a couple of low light pictures with my arc both outside and inside and agree that pictures especially at iso1600-2000 contain a larger amount of noise. I would say the pictures are very good compared to my old mobile which was useless in low light and good compared to my compact camera.
You can change the scene mode to make the xperia use slower shutter speeds and lower iso, that will give you some very nice scenery shots in low light with little noise. I have to my surprised shot a few sharp fotos at 1/4 shutter speed in low light, that would not be possible without fixed mounting on my dslr or an extremely steady hand.
You will ever only be able to archive good low light pictures with expensive slr and optics. One thing I have learned using slr is that light is king, you can not get enough light if you want sharp, good looking, strong colors etc.
Now you got me interested in doing some tests to compare the low light performance with my dslr and compact camera

Well hygge, I am quite an amateur in shooting but I also know from my extended zoom camera that noise in low light is a nightmare (at least I use Program mode and not automatic ).
I really got the phone form several days and did not had the time try it good. I've just changed settings from 6mp 16:9 (strange for default settings) to 8mp.
Then the LED flash came on automatically. But the result was not good. (3 from 4 shots were with yellow-green tint and one was too bright (or is more correct over-exposed). But I must confess the scene was complicated if this matters at all: my baby in the bathing tub. So there is water, reflection.....
But anyway I put my bet on the dslr with a huge distnace

valqka said:
Well hygge, I am quite an amateur in shooting but I also know from my extended zoom camera that noise in low light is a nightmare (at least I use Program mode and not automatic ).
I really got the phone form several days and did not had the time try it good. I've just changed settings from 6mp 16:9 (strange for default settings) to 8mp.
Then the LED flash came on automatically. But the result was not good. (3 from 4 shots were with yellow-green tint and one was too bright (or is more correct over-exposed). But I must confess the scene was complicated if this matters at all: my baby in the bathing tub. So there is water, reflection.....
But anyway I put my bet on the dslr with a huge distnace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would have been a nice picture, but it do sounds like a challenging picture with the reflecting. Remember to record movies of your baby in the bathing tub. My daughters now 3 og 5 years really enjoy looking at short movie clips of them as babies splashing in their bathing tub
(they love playing games on the xperia, mostly drawing apps )
What I have seen so far is that the xperia tend to prefer low shutter speeds in low light situations. I still only have a handfull of shots to base my conclusions but with flash on it was using 1/25 sec shutter. This is too slow taking pictures of moving kids, you will need 1/60 or even 1/120 which is normally only available on slr's. Without flash it has been 1/8 and high iso, must admit it was under circumstances I would never have used my dslr without flash and maybe a bit unfair to judge the xperias camera capabilities.
I agree that the wrong color balance will totally screw up the pictures, have you tried setting the white balance manually in the camera? A setting I have not yet changed on my xperia and are not aware what options are available.

I have now made some quick comparisons of my three cameraes under low light conditions.
Might upload test pictures later when I have the time, for now you will have to trust me
Camera 1. Xperia Arc 8MegaPixel
Camera 2. Olympus u Tough 12MegaPixel
Camera 3. Konica Minolta 5D dslr 6MegaPixel
Test 1 without flash
Xperia 1. Kamera advance app with lowest compression, no flash
ISO: 1000
Exposure: 1/8
Olympus 2. Default settings with disable flash
ISO: 400
Exposure: 1/4
KM 5D 3. Full auto, no flash
Could not focus, too little light, camera suggested 3-4 sec shutter speed
(was using OEM lense with bad aperture which gave it problems focussing, could have used a better lense but decided to use OEM lense to keep the comparisons fairly)
Results:
Olympus had only a tiny bit more details and allot more noise, picture was looking very bad up close.
Xperia Arc, even at iso 1000 the noise was lower than my Olympus and the picture looked more clean with nicer colors. I definitely prefered the Xperia result.
The olympus will not go lower than 1/4 shutter speed and iso 400. I selected night scenery on the Arc and got a picture with iso 160 and shutterspeed 1/2. This picture had even less noise but was slightly blurred at 1/2, need a more steady hand but still a very useable result.
My DSLR would not take a picture without focus.
Winner:
Xperia Arc, higher shutter speeds and a cleaner picture with less noise. I was surprised to see the loss of details on my 12MP Olympus at ISO 400 compared to the Xperia Arc.
Test 2
With Flash:
Xperia 1. ISO 400, shutter 1/24
Olympus 2. ISO 100, shutter 1/30
KM 5D 3. ISO 100, shutter 1/60
Result:
The Olympus with flash and ISO 100 gave a sharp, low noise picture and the 12MP provided better details than the xperia could show. The flash on the xperia is not very strong and it was not possible for me to configure it to use lower ISO than 400. The xperia arc picture did give a nice result with low noise.
The 6MP DSLR with flash give the same amount of details as the 12MP Olympus, my old DSLR is still going strong and a better lense will give an even sharper picture
Winner:
KonicaMinolta 5D wins, followed by Olympus. Xperia Arc still gave a nice result but with less details and more noise than the other two devices.
One last test at a really dark area without flash also proved xperia arc to be the winner. My Olympus would not go lower than 1/4 iso400 while xperia used 1/8 iso2000. The motive was only visible on xperia arc and even a fairly noisy picture at iso2000 is better than no picture at all
My own conclusion is that the xperia arc/neo is really good at low light performance and even outperforms many compact cameras, but the the weak flash give some serious limitations. The low shutter speeds will probably also be an issue taking pictures of moving motives in low light.
(did shoot a couple of shoots with sony camera app and did not notice any difference from Camera Advance, I used the 3PP camera to use as little jpg compression as possible but I doubt the pictures visually differ much)
It would be interesting to do some tests during daylight as well, it will not benefit from the improved low light performance compared to other camera sensors. I am curious to see how the dynamic range of this sensor is, can it compare to my Olympus compact camera then it would be a serious contender as my primary point and shoot camera as long as flash is not needed.

Thanks forthe replies - I'm not expecting amazing things from camera on a phone Just want to make sure that software isn't unnecessarily hindering the hardware.
It also looks like it will be a couple of weeks before I pick one up...Unless i opt for something else in that time, but for a smallish screen size Android phone this currently looks the best. I do wish it had gorilla glass - but you can't have it all
Now I've found a confusing thread about in line remotes on the headphones that I need to figure out (yes I do seem to put way too much thought into these things!).

valqka said:
I really got the phone form several days and did not had the time try it good. I've just changed settings from 6mp 16:9 (strange for default settings) to 8mp.
Then the LED flash came on automatically. But the result was not good. (3 from 4 shots were with yellow-green tint and one was too bright (or is more correct over-exposed). But I must confess the scene was complicated if this matters at all: my baby in the bathing tub. So there is water, reflection.....
But anyway I put my bet on the dslr with a huge distnace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the yellow green tint you're seeing will be from the lights in the room - you see this on most cameras of any quality, if you have a white balance setting you should have one for indoor/halogen lights. It's also normally easy to fix in Photoshop.

Can you record HDR video?

I've seen in some reviews and spec sheets on the G4 that it has HDR video capability. But after digging around in the camera's limited options I just don't see it. Is there some way to do this with an alternate camera app?

There is no such thing as HDR for videos yet. The experiment that comes close to this would have been a researcher who used two Canon 5D Mark 2. He shot videos with different exposure on each camera and attempted to combine the videos. It didn't work well.

maybe they can implement a function to alternate exposure between frames, so exposure goes -3, 0, +3, 0, -3, ...

Actually my old 2013 HTC One M7 has HDR video. It takes two different exposure frames, then tries to combine them and stabilize for motion between them. This causes the overall field of view to be cropped a bit. I think some other phones in the past couple years have this feature too.

Wow, interesting. I had assumed HDR video was not possible. I hadn't considered constantly bracketing the exposure using individual frames.
It seems like this would at least partially reduce your effective framerate? Say you have 2 moving items in the shot, one bright, one dark, along with a neutral-brightness background. The background might be correct in 0EV frame 1, dark subject correct in +3EV frame 2, bright subject correct in -3EV frame 3, and so on. But the subjects are moving, the bright subject is somewhat ignored in frame 2, and the dark one ignored in frame 3. So the moving bright/dark items might appear slightly jerky, as they are not properly captured in all 30 or 60 frames captured during that second.
But it's interesting, regardless, that this can be done. With more processing power available in the future, and maybe a higher-framerate camera, plus some fancy image-processing, maybe HDR video will become more practical.

I know I'm a bit late to the party, since I too was researching how to shoot hdr video on the g4, sadly there isn't. But the S6 and S7 both can shoot hdr video, take a look
HDR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dfLFVz6WCU
No HDR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWKSCKDDhNI
RedOCtobyr said:
Wow, interesting. I had assumed HDR video was not possible. I hadn't considered constantly bracketing the exposure using individual frames.
It seems like this would at least partially reduce your effective framerate? Say you have 2 moving items in the shot, one bright, one dark, along with a neutral-brightness background. The background might be correct in 0EV frame 1, dark subject correct in +3EV frame 2, bright subject correct in -3EV frame 3, and so on. But the subjects are moving, the bright subject is somewhat ignored in frame 2, and the dark one ignored in frame 3. So the moving bright/dark items might appear slightly jerky, as they are not properly captured in all 30 or 60 frames captured during that second.
But it's interesting, regardless, that this can be done. With more processing power available in the future, and maybe a higher-framerate camera, plus some fancy image-processing, maybe HDR video will become more practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

kyleruggles said:
I know I'm a bit late to the party, since I too was researching how to shoot hdr video on the g4, sadly there isn't. But the S6 and S7 both can shoot hdr video, take a look
HDR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dfLFVz6WCU
No HDR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWKSCKDDhNI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDR version horror bad.
Oversharpening and over saturated. blury....
4K much better.But OIS not to effective.
Anyway great quality thanks mate!

The HDR to me looks pretty decent given the advantages of boosting the shadows, yeah it's oversharpened and over saturated but other than that, it makes a huge difference. Just wish LG implemented HDR video as well.
kabirjedi said:
HDR version horror bad.
Oversharpening and over saturated. blury....
4K much better.But OIS not to effective.
Anyway great quality thanks mate!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

P10 Camera Talk Thread

anyone have success in running google pixels camera on P10 for HDR +, and what other camera apps You use ?
I use Cortex camera for quality slow photography (multi processing) like S8 but much more frames (s8 takes 3 photos and combine them) Cortex use 10 - 100 photos for best quality.
I also use A better camera, but still missing Super sensor option on P10 for best output.
Stock camera use too much sharpening for landscapes and distance objects, but it is fine for near objects...

I've not had any problems with the stock camera and can't get Google pixel camera to install.
Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Google camera apk with hdr enabled
Not working with my mate 9

Anyone having problems with the panorama photos they are crap! The joins are rubbish and any horizon shots I take look like the Manhattan skyline!
Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Looks mostly fine to me when shooting horizontal panoramas. The only vertical panorama I've shot is blurry on one half and I don't like manual switching between shooting vertical and horizontal panoramas. Overall I like samsung's panorama user experience better but I think I'll live

The Huawei Leica camera also use stacking when processing the pictures.

ClausG76 said:
The Huawei Leica camera also use stacking when processing the pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but stack bw & color photo? result is fine details but also some noise is present.

The P10 raw image have very high dynamic range. So it can stack them like the Pixel does.

https://youtu.be/Fuqz_iiodSM
Here is my test against Galaxy S8, what You think about camera ? sry for maybe boring music
Video part is recorded on Huawei P10 in 4K..

streetewok said:
Anyone having problems with the panorama photos they are crap! The joins are rubbish and any horizon shots I take look like the Manhattan skyline!
Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes they are ... Huawei have to improve ?

The panorama is really not good. I hope Huawei will fix it soon.
For now, I have a photo for you all I made with my P10. Nothing edited, shot in manual mode free handed.

Hola

RE: P10 Camera a talk
I'm seeing much better results than Pixel or iPhone 7.

Quiet satisfied with the camera but I hope they will port PanoSphere to their Camera Mode

This is one shot with a really hard light, the phone however did a really great job.

arcangelbelo said:
This is one shot with a really hard light, the phone however did a really great job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You edit it?

A bit of snapseed, I used hdr filter and some detail.

Coguar said:
anyone have success in running google pixels camera on P10 for HDR +, and what other camera apps You use ?
I use Cortex camera for quality slow photography (multi processing) like S8 but much more frames (s8 takes 3 photos and combine them) Cortex use 10 - 100 photos for best quality.
I also use A better camera, but still missing Super sensor option on P10 for best output.
Stock camera use too much sharpening for landscapes and distance objects, but it is fine for near objects...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just casually run into this thread (I own a Mi5s) since I have also looked for alternatives to Google's multiframe hdr+.
On the Mi5s Cortex works wonderfully on low light still subjects. But my favorite app is Snap Hdr Camera on multiframe Nightmode (usually set to 4-8 frames) for those shots that require iso 400-2000, much faster than Cortex, and better than Better Camera on my phone. Incidentally Almalence, Better Camera's developper has licensed its technology to Huawei in the past.

Is there a way to completely disable all the beautification and bokeh options for the front camera? I don't like the effect at all and disabling it every time can't be the only solution.

That's weird. On my phone, it's only on if i left it on the last time I used the camera..

Photo quality

Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Moto Z2 Play come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

The moto z2 camera has a lot of noise in anything except the brightest light. Seems like it uses a very high iso

rickykemp said:
The moto z2 camera has a lot of noise in anything except the brightest light. Seems like it uses a very high iso
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally under not-so-good light conditions the night mode kicks-in and it helps a lot. The noise is hardly noticeable then, it can be seen only on specifically coloured surfaces like dark furniture.
That's why I went for Hasselblad mod, its xenon flash (if you know how to use it, of course...) allows to take great photos. But it requires some time to learn how to use manual settings and control flash strength; then it's possible to get nice, not overexposed photos with nice light balance in them.

Looks like it has quite good image stabilization. Just did this movie today and I am impressed.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/smaqUb8zPgXuG8fE9

The Z2 Play has a pretty good camera but I expected as such: it's using a rebranded sensor that's just the camera sensor from the Galaxy S7 without OIS. F/1.7 means a nice wide aperture for some good bokeh without really needing to add artificial lens blurring a la portrait mode that everyone seems to really love nowadays.
The lack of OIS, Snapdragon 626's only decent image processing, as well as the fact that Motorola still kinda sucks with image processing on their end holds the the Z2 Play from having a great camera. It's still good however and with great lighting and a still hand, you can take some really nice shots. Night shots are alright though the lack of OIS means you'll be better off using a tripod or gimbal if you don't want your photos going all noise city on ya.

I have the same sony camera as "better photo quality" solution.

OnePlus 5T: Camera Software Review

There's a constant debate between OnePlus 5T, its camera.. vs. Google Pixel 2 XL. For myself - I can't justify nearly double the price for the lower megapixel camera and subpar display.
There were also a few camera related enhancements in recent firmwares leading to 4.7.6. Also, for me there was no interest in social media crap - beautifying, etc. I also couldn't make GCam work with back camera on 4.7.6.
All of the photos were made using intentionally difficult conditions.. dim light, photo taken at an angle, etc.
Camera FV5: Creates very noisy pictures, even with optimal lighting
Better Camera - HDR: Too artificial colors with slight red shift, textures are not uniform
Better Camera - Single Shot: Textures are much better, colors are greyed out, some noise still present
Better Camera - Best mode: This seems the most optimal, least amount of blur due to lack of optical image stabilization, as this mode takes 3 shots, and selects the one with the highest focus.
Fotej Camera - HDR: Very poor, spilled ink like effect instead of slight glow
Fotej Camera - HDR off: Also very poor, lack of clarity or details, noise.
Open Camera - Using Camera 2 API, 95% JPEG quality: too much sharpen, textures are not even uneven, but grainy, with blackish dots, loss of texture details
Open Camera - Using Camera 2 API, 97% JPEG quality: same - too much sharpen, but textures are more even, grainy blackish dots are still present but a lot less
Open Camera - Using Camera 2 API, 97% JPEG quality, HDR Mode Always On: Too significant loss of details, loss of texture details
In summary, I think 5T stock camera and Better Camera with Best mode wins. 5T works a bit better with color, textures, does not abuse the image taken, while Better Camera in the Best Mode takes 3 photos, and selects least blurry one - which seems to be the only way to compensate for the lack of optical image stabilization.
Other conclusions:
- HRR still doesn't seem to work well on 3rd party camera apps
- Stock Camera HQ mode still doesn't work, blur and loss of details is significant
What are your findings?

I really don`t satisfy with the camera