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Assuming it even hits our device in an official capacity at some point, I will not be taking the Lollipop update. Why not? Because Google has decided to add a kill switch...
http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/...includes-kill-switch-factory-reset-protection
Sure, it sounds like a smart idea and a nice feature on the surface, but having spent more than my fair share of time mucking about with various means of remotely (and stealthily) accessing Android devices, the potential for abuse is too great....Not to mention the fact that the NSA and other alphabets must be absolutely thrilled about such a 'feature'. No thanks....
I see your point. There are ups and downs to.. Pretty much everything. I, myself, would be more than thrilled for a 5.0 update. Not like any of my bank info or other personal info has been stolen or used without my consent, nor have I done any really big illegal activities through my device which would give the NSA a reason to look my way.
Interesting. I think it's worth noting, the article claims that Google implemented the ability to remotely lock phones "last year." So that should automatically dispel any notion of anonymity. Besides that, i think the NSA and other "outfits" have had access to personal devices long before the announcement of lollipop. If you really desire to stay off the grid, he prepared to make substantial efforts.
Not that the NSA needs such a feature. They're already capable of going through your phone it's nothing new.
A big issue would be someone maliciously taking over the kill switch and locking you out with no way in.
Yeah that would definitely suck.
The thing that concerns me most isn't privacy or nefarious doings by the NSA. Everyone knows by now (or should) that privacy and anonymity don't exist in the digital world, and the NSA already has their grubby mitts into everything. I'm more concerned about the possibility of other random people being able to lock me out of my phone.
I'm not going to go into detail, as XDA is not the place for such things and the information can easily be gleaned elsewhere, but as I mentioned, there are already fairly simple ways to get full, remote access of somebody's phone. All it takes is 20 seconds or so of physical access to a device, or a little bit of social engineering to get somebody to install a seemingly benign apk (infected Play Store updates were my favorite), and you can do whatever you want, undetected.
Now imagine you install something, and unbeknownst to you it gives someone complete remote access to your device, starts sniffing passwords, and running keyloggers. Before long, they've got your complete Google account (for example). Next, they change your password, associated phone number, and recovery email addresses to their own, and activate your device's 'kill switch'. You would be left holding a paper weight, without ever knowing what happened, and there would be nothing you could do about it...
I tend to be very careful about what I install, but even I have installed the odd apk I've gotten here at XDA, or compiled and installed something from Github without checking through the source. It's almost impossible to be 100% certain everything you install is clean.
Fortunately, such malicious 'attacks' (for lack of a better word) aren't all that common, relatively speaking. The odds of you randomly becoming a victim of such a thing are marginal. Also, I'm sure once Lollipop is out in the wild, people will start finding flaws with the 'kill switch' implementation, and ultimately, ways of circumventing it. Maybe then I'll consider updating. Until then, however, knowing what nefarious things are possible with it, however unlikely, far outweighs any potential reasons to want to update.
Maybe I'm a little over-paranoid, but that's my take on it, for what it's worth....
Morningstar said:
The thing that concerns me most isn't privacy or nefarious doings by the NSA. Everyone knows by now (or should) that privacy and anonymity don't exist in the digital world, and the NSA already has their grubby mitts into everything. I'm more concerned about the possibility of other random people being able to lock me out of my phone.
I'm not going to go into detail, as XDA is not the place for such things and the information can easily be gleaned elsewhere, but as I mentioned, there are already fairly simple ways to get full, remote access of somebody's phone. All it takes is 20 seconds or so of physical access to a device, or a little bit of social engineering to get somebody to install a seemingly benign apk (infected Play Store updates were my favorite), and you can do whatever you want, undetected.
Now imagine you install something, and unbeknownst to you it gives someone complete remote access to your device, starts sniffing passwords, and running keyloggers. Before long, they've got your complete Google account (for example). Next, they change your password, associated phone number, and recovery email addresses to their own, and activate your device's 'kill switch'. You would be left holding a paper weight, without ever knowing what happened, and there would be nothing you could do about it...
I tend to be very careful about what I install, but even I have installed the odd apk I've gotten here at XDA, or compiled and installed something from Github without checking through the source. It's almost impossible to be 100% certain everything you install is clean.
Fortunately, such malicious 'attacks' (for lack of a better word) aren't all that common, relatively speaking. The odds of you randomly becoming a victim of such a thing are marginal. Also, I'm sure once Lollipop is out in the wild, people will start finding flaws with the 'kill switch' implementation, and ultimately, ways of circumventing it. Maybe then I'll consider updating. Until then, however, knowing what nefarious things are possible with it, however unlikely, far outweighs any potential reasons to want to update.
Maybe I'm a little over-paranoid, but that's my take on it, for what it's worth....
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I wouldn't doubt it if people are already considering to do that to a greater extent.
First of all the name itself "kill switch" is totally misleading. "Killing" something or somebody in full meaning of the word means ending it's life permanently. The way I read the article, this thing simply disables the phone remotely until proper password is entered? How is this different from SIM card lock password protection, or log on password most phones have for ages, that now it will be mandated by another useless law? Or maybe that this new method can not be bypassed? It's still not a kill switch, if it can be reversed and it should be called disable switch or something, but it doesn't have the same ring to it.
There has to be way to unlock the phone without password, otherwise there will be a lot of angry people who forgot/lost password especially if set once and forgotten until let's say 6 months later the switch is activated.
For example couple years ago I think I set password for program purchases on my cable box, so kids can't purchase something by accident, I have no idea what that password is. At least I have no intentions of buying anything.
Also what stops the thief from breaking phone apart and selling parts? My wife broke the screen on her GS3, replacement screen is more expensive than brand new GS3.
And who activates the switch? if user, a lot of people won't have a clue, if company, imagine some prankster breaks into Apple servers, steals the codes and kills 3,000,000 iphones, actually come to think of it, that wouldn't be such a bad thing.
I may not update to L either, but for more practical reasons, like are there any benefits for me, is there root method without tripping knox, or will it kill my battery, like update to KK did.
pete4k said:
First of all the name itself "kill switch" is totally misleading. "Killing" something or somebody in full meaning of the word means ending it's life permanently. The way I read the article, this thing simply disables the phone remotely until proper password is entered? How is this different from SIM card lock password protection, or log on password most phones have for ages, that now it will be mandated by another useless law? Or maybe that this new method can not be bypassed?
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I agree that 'kill switch' probably isn't the best term for it. My understanding, from the few articles I've read about it, is that it will lock the phone down until the Google account is verified. I'm not sure if that verification will be done via password entry, email verification, two-factor authentication, or some other means.
For an attacker using the methods I've previously mentioned, a SIM lock would pose a problem, but lockscreen passwords, patterns and pins are trivial to get around.
Like I said, it's not clear yet (from what I've found) how verification will be done to deactivate the 'kill switch', but if it does in fact require verifying the associated Google account in some way, a phone's legitimate owner would be out of luck, as somebody with the means and desire to activate the 'kill switch' in the first place would have no problem in also gaining complete and total control of the associated Google account.
I want to be clear that this is speculation based on my current understanding of a 'feature' that has not yet been released to the public. There may well be safeguards in place to prevent such things, and Google may still make changes before Lollipop is available to the public. I am not suggesting that people refrain from updating to Lollipop when and if an update becomes available. I also want to emphasize that even if the 'feature' is released with such inherent vulnerabilities, that it is not something the average user should every worry about. The odds of anyone randomly being a victim of such an attack are practically non-existant.
That being said, this is XDA. Most members here are fairly technical-minded (at least compared to the general public), and are interested in knowing and realizing the full potential of their devices. As such, I think it should at least be known that such vulnerabilities as I've mentioned do exist, and attacks may be made that much worse, depending on how Google implements the 'kill switch' feature. However remote it may be, it's a possibility, and something that people may or may not want to take into consideration.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. G.I. Joe....
Not really a sound reason to avoid lollipop in my opinion. If you're concerned about the remote tracking (that already exists) and the upcoming kill switch; after root, find the associated files and freeze or delete them. The mobile tracker came off my phone right after Knox, not for any reason other than the fact it eats battery like crazy. There's always work arounds to their technology, but as far as the nsa, or any other group or morons listening to you; the chances of you as an individual being targeted are 1 in 136,149,000 (in the US). I don't care if you have 50,000 stolen mp3's on your device and like to try and steal old ladies bank account numbers with your tablet, it's chump change to them and having the mindset that they're listening is as bad as these people who prepare for dooms day, zombie apocalypse, and everything else... it's just crazy. If your concerns are a kill switch, then you might as well stay in your house because there's cameras everywhere out there, your ps3 and Xbox cameras can be accessed if you're on the Web, there's hundreds of satellites circling the globe gathering information, and every thought, search or anything you've done on the Web is accessible whether you delete your history or not. If your computer has been there, there's a footprint, if you used a vpn or tried playing shadow games to hide your identity, it can be traced if they want to. Life is too short top worry about such silly things. Live it up and have fun!
Just my 2 cents for the night.
Do you wear a tin foil hat too?? Whether you like it or not, you're on the grid already. There is no getting off. The NSA wants you, they're gonna get you. Good luck running
That is very true. But as more people protest, the companies are actually fighting back against the government. Like Yahoo against the NSA and Facebook against the DEA, people just need to keep letting know that we won't tolerate getting stripped buttass naked of our personal privacy.
Sent from my hlte using XDA Free mobile app
nighthawk626 said:
That is very true. But as more people protest, the companies are actually fighting back against the government. Like Yahoo against the NSA and Facebook against the DEA, people just need to keep letting know that we won't tolerate getting stripped buttass naked of our personal privacy.
Sent from my hlte using XDA Free mobile app
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Just look at Apple. They're getting a lot of heat for the filevault encryption software.
Apple has had their legs spread open and panties dropped for the government since day one.
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
nighthawk626 said:
Apple has had their legs spread open and panties dropped for the government since day one.
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
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The same and to a greater extent can be said about facebook.
here, http://www.xda-developers.com/android/android-l-lockdown/, right on topic of this thread.
nighthawk626 said:
That is very true. But as more people protest, the companies are actually fighting back against the government. Like Yahoo against the NSA and Facebook against the DEA, people just need to keep letting know that we won't tolerate getting stripped buttass naked of our personal privacy.
Sent from my hlte using XDA Free mobile app
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Dog and pony show to give a false sense of privacy from these companies to their customers... See the yahoo gag order and the by-the-day increasing fines that the government was imposing to them unless they allowed them to access their data. If the government wants it, they will get it, no matter how 'safe' these clowns make you believe otherwise
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
I think a lot of you are missing my point. I'm not worried about the NSA, big brother, or anonymity (or rather the lack thereof). Those are concerns, of course, but I think everyone here knows that if you have any sort of cell phone, they can track and monitor you, and probably are.
What I'm worried about is the potential for random people gaining access to your phone and its' associated accounts and activating this 'kill switch', essentially leaving you with a paper weight. As I've already stated, I am not entirely sure that such a thing will be possible, as I have not seen the source code or all the minute details about how Google is implementing this. However, if it is implemented as described in the articles I've found about it, without any further security measures, there could be a problem.
If it is as described, I would have no problem remotely accessing a device, seizing control of the associated Google account, and activating the 'kill switch', without the device's owner ever having a clue it was happening. Of course I wouldn't do such a thing, especially to random people just for the 'lulz', but we all know there are people that would.
Hopefully that made some sense....I've been awake for too long lol
Not like hackers can't do that already...
Come on man.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Free mobile app
I don't know about you guys but I did have an LG L9 that I completely bricked. Now the thing would not turn on, no lights, nothing. But with some research, .exe file on my computer, and directions from some very savvy people I was able to plug in my phone to the computer while pressing three buttons that got me onto fast boot mode. This is where I was able to delete the system and install each partition bit by bit. Took helluva long time with multiple tries to finally get it working but it did. My two cents.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
Hey guys, is rooting really worth it on this phone. I mean just look at all the threads of this issue and that issue after somebody roots. I mean for me the phone is awesome as it is with exception to it's poor SPARK speeds. But that can't be fixed by rooting. I have yet to see any real gain posted by anyone other than removal of Sprint bloatware which is much less than any other carrier. So really is the gain worth the hardship and potential issues this phone seems to have after rooting?
All I see is this phone has X issue and then next line is always the same I rooted or I installed Y ROM. It seems to me that Samsung has done something to make this phone unreliable/unstable once the Factory integrity has been compromised either through rooting or ROM replacement. I did root mine using CF auto root before seeing all these issue posted. I can say now after rooting that I as well am seeing little bugs with touch screen response, as well as other little bugs it did not have before rooting. So this just strengthens my hunch about Samsung somehow making this device less stable once it is compromised.
I don't think I am going to fool with it any further. I don't want to become one of the many help I rooted and my phone won't boot post popping up around here lately.
You dont have to install ROMs to better your device, you can root stock odexed and it will be fine.
It unlocks more capabilities the phone cant do when its pure stock, such as Freezing wake locking apps that drain battery, or enabling etc mods that make the device better under certain circumstances.
You will run into issues whether rooted or not.
Is it worth it? Depends on user opinions. Does it have more problems than usual, Sure from time to time.
The peoples reviews of custom roms are there for a reason. There are things that are fixable and others that cant be fixed or modified upon.
Its more about exploring the full capabilities your device can do when it is rooted.
How far this device has come is massively huge because of the help brought from the community and devs.
You will typically find best performance and reliability with stock android with very few modifications. I use to flash a lot of roms/kernels on my Epic 4G and 4G touch and wouldn't call either of them reliable. I stay with mostly stock roms with my GS4, just Knox removed and everything is real stable.
Solarenemy68 said:
Hey guys, is rooting really worth it on this phone. I mean just look at all the threads of this issue and that issue after somebody roots. I mean for me the phone is awesome as it is with exception to it's poor SPARK speeds. But that can't be fixed by rooting. I have yet to see any real gain posted by anyone other than removal of Sprint bloatware which is much less than any other carrier. So really is the gain worth the hardship and potential issues this phone seems to have after rooting?
All I see is this phone has X issue and then next line is always the same I rooted or I installed Y ROM. It seems to me that Samsung has done something to make this phone unreliable/unstable once the Factory integrity has been compromised either through rooting or ROM replacement. I did root mine using CF auto root before seeing all these issue posted. I can say now after rooting that I as well am seeing little bugs with touch screen response, as well as other little bugs it did not have before rooting. So this just strengthens my hunch about Samsung somehow making this device less stable once it is compromised.
I don't think I am going to fool with it any further. I don't want to become one of the many help I rooted and my phone won't boot post popping up around here lately.
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I have both rooted and unrooted, stock roms and custom roms on a few devices at home. Does JUST ROOTING cause any additional problems? No. Its essentially like installing any other apk. Where majority of the bugs and problems come in is user error and custom roms. Don't get those confused as they typically are. Most "I rooted any my phone isn't booting" posts are from people that do things improperly. Or sometimes things just don't stick and you have to try again. CF Autoroot didn't work the very first time I flashed it on my wifes device (last night) after I had used it more times than I can count on my own since 1 week after device launch. I flashed it again, worked great. She didn't like stock, so I flashed my own custom rom on her device.
Custom Roms come with their own bugs if they aren't just simply stripped stock. Want less chances of bugs? Use the completely debloated and no-knoxed ones. They just make things simple by removing both carrier bloat and added items (can also be buggy themselves). Also keep in mind that the software shipped isn't always bug free . We saw some big changes to the actual code from NIE to NK2, we aren't 100% sure why they changed things in some places but I'm not an expert there at all. Ever wonder why Tmobile or verizon may have a feature thats actually turn off or locked on our device? It could be buggy for a specific carrier and the carrier just decided they wouldn't include it for their customers.
Samsung perposely sabatoging our devices because they are rooted...... eh they did have nexus devices at one point in time. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say this isn't the case. You may have just experienced bad results. I don't go a device without rooting, if not only to remove carrier bloat. MY last 3 devices I did not even let sprint reps boot before I took it home and rooted (literal first boot is rooted stock) I have been to the sprint techs LESS than when I had stock devices. This also allows certain users to fix their own problems themselves, and not leave device issues in the hands of carrier techs who by default will generally do a software reset and send you out the door.
Pros vs cons of rooting? Completely down to each specific user.
Yes rooting is absolutely worth it. For hotspot tethering, and Xposed. But you do need to add a fix to Xposed if you do decide to install it on this device.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
beezar said:
Yes rooting is absolutely worth it. For hotspot tethering, and Xposed. But you do need to add a fix to Xposed if you do decide to install it on this device.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
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If you have hotspot tethering included in your plan like I do why would you need to root to have it? Unless you are trying to get it for free?
Solarenemy68 said:
If you have hotspot tethering included in your plan like I do why would you need to root to have it? Unless you are trying to get it for free?
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reguardless if you pay for it or not, it limits the amount of devices you can connect/tether to. Who's to say I only want to tether 4-5 devices? What If I'm traveling and have 6 devices?
If you don't like rooting, this certainly isn't the place to try and shun it. If you are looking to be convinced to root again? Still the wrong place. You root because you want to, or you want to do something that you can't without root. Plain and simple. Rooting is essentially controlling your own device while you OWN IT. Not owning a device someone else has complete control over.
millerboy3 said:
reguardless if you pay for it or not, it limits the amount of devices you can connect/tether to. Who's to say I only want to tether 4-5 devices? What If I'm traveling and have 6 devices?
If you don't like rooting, this certainly isn't the place to try and shun it. If you are looking to be convinced to root again? Still the wrong place. You root because you want to, or you want to do something that you can't without root. Plain and simple. Rooting is essentially controlling your own device while you OWN IT. Not owning a device someone else has complete control over.
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I root everything I own that can be rooted. My question has about the N4 as it seems like I said it has more issues after a root then it did before and that seems fishy. The way Sprint and Samsung are handling the poor data speeds is already a screw job when they are both aware it is a real problem. Add to that the more mods you do to the phone the more unstable it gets that just seems shady. I was not asking to root or not to root so much as I was asking is THIS device worth the trouble?
Solarenemy68 said:
I root everything I own that can be rooted. My question has about the N4 as it seems like I said it has more issues after a root then it did before and that seems fishy. The way Sprint and Samsung are handling the poor data speeds is already a screw job when they are both aware it is a real problem. Add to that the more mods you do to the phone the more unstable it gets that just seems shady. I was not asking to root or not to root so much as I was asking is THIS device worth the trouble?
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Seems you aren't running the right rom. I haven't had any major instabilities.
It's not the rooting that causes the problems, its what they do after they root.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Solarenemy68 said:
I root everything I own that can be rooted. My question has about the N4 as it seems like I said it has more issues after a root then it did before and that seems fishy. The way Sprint and Samsung are handling the poor data speeds is already a screw job when they are both aware it is a real problem. Add to that the more mods you do to the phone the more unstable it gets that just seems shady. I was not asking to root or not to root so much as I was asking is THIS device worth the trouble?
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Click to collapse
As we all have said before, its user opinionated and what they do regarding with root in general.
I go with rooting because of extra battery saving features such as Greenify + Xposed, Underclocking GPU and CPU. To top that off, force lower dpi resolution and tablet mode on specific apps to see more on the screen. Modifying files such as build.prop and user key controls for enhanced performance, and like everyone, changing Sounds and boot anims, moving apps from user to system to help with stability etc.
If its unstable doing certain things well thats the bummer downside to the Apps or devices capabilities. But as long as you can get more out of the device ( which you can! ) with all the freedom of not being locked to user specific controls. It makes it better!
Thats how i feel.
I mean you can root the device and just install twrp and just keep it like that just until something catches your eye. I personally say if you rooted your previous devices. You should root the note 4. I am rooted and I am just plain stock cause I almost bricked my device. So I am going to wait until 5.0 gets to our phones before I flash anymore roms but until then I'm going to be completely stock.
Root your phone immediately.
Root your phone immediately. My god, what are you thinking going around unrooted?
Oh, you want details?
Open the hidden stuff if you want details.
Just kidding. I too suffered from doubts and waited several months before popping my phones warranty cherry.
Root is nice, even on the Note 4. But:
If you don't need root for anything special and you are perfectly happy with stock without root, DON'T ROOT!
If you need superuser authority (titanium backup?), if you want to disable Exchange Security so you can have work email but still use the fingerprint scanner, or you just like having better/different looks than stock in some way not achievable without root, ROOT.
That advice is general and applies to all phones. If you don't need/want it, why ask?
I can vouch that rooting the Note 4, installing custom Recovery and operating the custom ROMs is the similar to any other Samsung phone of recent vintage both in manner and difficultly (e.g. S3, S4, S5). (not the same though so do your research)
I have nothing against any ROM but, from personal experience, the ROMs from Pongoface and co work extremely well and look really nice. Make sure to wipe data and let them have 10 minutes or so to settle after first boot.
Those are:
[PORT] BoBCaTROM
and
[Port] Sprint Xnote (The time to settle was important on this one for me. Else, I got forced closes, not sure
Everything is stable on my phone after rooting and a LOT of Xposed mods. It just makes my phone much better.
If you have rooted all your other phones, then really why are you asking this question? You already know the benefits and risks of rooting so there is no need for us to tell you what to do.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
Solarenemy68 said:
I root everything I own that can be rooted. My question has about the N4 as it seems like I said it has more issues after a root then it did before and that seems fishy. The way Sprint and Samsung are handling the poor data speeds is already a screw job when they are both aware it is a real problem. Add to that the more mods you do to the phone the more unstable it gets that just seems shady. I was not asking to root or not to root so much as I was asking is THIS device worth the trouble?
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Click to collapse
False. False. False. What's shady is the lack of knowledge on behalf of a user which these issues are caused by. There is no "shady" business going on that would cause instability issues upon rooting your device. Instead of a carrier or Samsung playing shenanigans with it's customers by introducing bugs and instability issues if a user roots their device, it would be more logical for Sprint and Samsung to simply lock down the bootloader and take measures to prevent root in the first place... such as all the Verizon and AT&T customers who are still crying about not having root. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.
As already mentioned by millerboy3, rooting doesn't cause the instability issues you or anybody else might be having. The more mods you do the more unstable the rom??? That's just plain and simple ignorance my friend. Yes it could be true that a rom might be "buggy" but if a rom is well planned and time taken to ensure everything is right, then there will not be stability issues. There are roms out there with tons of mods that are 10 times more stable and faster than the stock rom. I happen to have a rom that fits that criteria along with a few other people. With that said, I do agree with you on the fact that the Note 4 is perfectly awesome straight out of the box without the need to root it. This is the first phone I've owned that I really don't feel the need to change anything because everything works great stock. There are a few mods that I find are well worth the effort and definitely worth rooting the phone for.
tx_dbs_tx said:
False. False. False. What's shady is the lack of knowledge on behalf of a user which these issues are caused by. There is no "shady" business going on that would cause instability issues upon rooting your device. Instead of a carrier or Samsung playing shenanigans with it's customers by introducing bugs and instability issues if a user roots their device, it would be more logical for Sprint and Samsung to simply lock down the bootloader and take measures to prevent root in the first place... such as all the Verizon and AT&T customers who are still crying about not having root. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.
As already mentioned by millerboy3, rooting doesn't cause the instability issues you or anybody else might be having. The more mods you do the more unstable the rom??? That's just plain and simple ignorance my friend. Yes it could be true that a rom might be "buggy" but if a rom is well planned and time taken to ensure everything is right, then there will not be stability issues. There are roms out there with tons of mods that are 10 times more stable and faster than the stock rom. I happen to have a rom that fits that criteria along with a few other people. With that said, I do agree with you on the fact that the Note 4 is perfectly awesome straight out of the box without the need to root it. This is the first phone I've owned that I really don't feel the need to change anything because everything works great stock. There are a few mods that I find are well worth the effort and definitely worth rooting the phone for.
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He said it much better than I.
i'll also throw a vote in for rooting. i've come to consider AdAway & Xposed as must-haves, which both require root.
The N4 was the first phone I considered not rooting, it was that good straight away. However, then I remembered why I rooted, besides custom ROM's, and it was 2 (now 3) main reasons.
1- AdFree: After seeing ads all over a bunch of my favorite apps, I remembered I didn't have AdFree installed, which requires root. This is my biggest quality of use reason, if you've ever went to tap something in an app only to have a ninja ad come out of nowhere right as your finger hit the screen and redirect you to a website or the app store, you know what I mean.
2- TWRP + Titanium Backup - The ability to backup ALL my apps and settings to a separate SD card was huge, plus all the other features of TB.
3 - Lastly, I found Xposed: I'd never used before, but now, I couldn't imagine not having it. It's allowed me to tweak things that irritated me, like color schemes on the contacts and dialer screens, without the worry of installing custom ROM's or RW editing mods.
Just my feedback, your requirements may differ.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
Newbie, who wants to have better use of ExtsdCard
I am looking into rooting, for the first time. After an update to my, prior, S4, I couldn't edit my ebooks, about 700, delete photos, several thousand, or remove duplicates, on my extsdcard. I just got a new Note 4, and a 128G extsdcard. If there is anyway to restore my control of the sdcard that I paid for, other than rooting, please tell me. Otherwise, Android and Samsung are forcing me to root. Am I wrong??
Thank you very much,
Randy "Pugmeister"
Pugmeister said:
I am looking into rooting, for the first time. After an update to my, prior, S4, I couldn't edit my ebooks, about 700, delete photos, several thousand, or remove duplicates, on my extsdcard. I just got a new Note 4, and a 128G extsdcard. If there is anyway to restore my control of the sdcard that I paid for, other than rooting, please tell me. Otherwise, Android and Samsung are forcing me to root. Am I wrong??
Thank you very much,
Randy "Pugmeister"
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I'm a little fuzzy on what your saying. Are you saying that you can't edit or delete the contents of your external SD card in the note 4? If so, that's not a problem root could solve, as you should have full control over everything on the external card. Rooting would allow you access to edit the main android system files on the internal storage.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
Everywhere I read about how people are afraid to trip KNOX, will flashing this trip it.. YES what I understand is that FLASHING anything that is an Unofficial Recovery or Kernel is what will trip this security feature, TRIPPING KNOX will DISABLE SAMSUNG PAY
Samsung Pay relies on the security features of KNOX. Once KNOX is tripped you can't go back.
1st question is how can we make an Official Kernel with ROOT...???
2nd question is what makes it Official to begin with..???????,
no where have I seen any forum discuss how these companies make Official Firmware and kernels, Seems like every phone company can alter Official Firmware and kernels to suit the needs and its still an Official update and does not trip KNOX.
Just curious as to the inner workings on being Official. Would be nice to see a Official Rooted Kernel kind of like the leaked T-Mobile Engineering Kernel but even it was limited in ways.
Anyway about KNOX... trip it.
If you are just using your phone for personal and like custom roms tripping KNOX means nothing and its OKAY.
If your going to use Samsung Pay then step away from ROOT and don't look back. Tripping Knox is not for you.
As far as I can tell the only people who can't root are the people who work for big business and have work related files on their phones, KNOX is going to make a partition and keep all this stuff secret for them so if you rooted your phone and work for lets say the "Department of Defense" chances of you getting fired and your phone destroyed are like 100% so if your the sole owner of your phone and like to tinker with custom roms TRIP KNOX its okay, I just wish we had a way to make Official Firmware and Kernels but I can see problems for big business if we did.
Not to be mean, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I am only saying that so that anyone else reading this knows that.
"Official Kernel With Root" is not going to happen.
If you trip Knox, you will not be able to use Samsung features such as Samsung Pay. This is important to a number of people.
You really should do some research before posting.
Your not being mean at all but you did not answer either, why is it not going to happen? I would like to know what makes it official and why can't it be done?
I get Samsung pay users, but for those who Root usually are going to flash custom roms and don't care about that feature, if your using Samsung pay then you need KNOX to keep your data secure. I will edit the OP and state the facts for those who don't already know about this.
It it was that easy to work around knox, i guess it wouldnt be that great of a security feature huh? Samsung didnt waste all that time for nothing, theyre protecting your data, and rooting your device makes it vulnerable. Im amazed there was ever a way around it before 5.1.1
lootbooper said:
It it was that easy to work around knox, i guess it wouldnt be that great of a security feature huh? Samsung didnt waste all that time for nothing, theyre protecting your data, and rooting your device makes it vulnerable. Im amazed there was ever a way around it before 5.1.1
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So true, but I been looking at this 2 ways, as what I read and heard from Samsung about KNOX is you have software which is what the security Suite of apps is all about, it handles all the security features, the KNOX (EFUSE) when rooted or phone is set to custom trips the KNOX Counter which Samsung told me in an email its not connected to the Software Suite for Security, its in place to tell them (Samsung) that the phone has been altered, which VOIDS the WARRANTY and Samsung can refuse to fix your phone. I am trying to get more answers from Samsung about why Samsung Pay stops working if this (Efuse) KNOX Counter is tripped, so far they say the Counter is not related to the software suite. I get no direct answer about it. They don't claim is stops Samsung Pay from working but they really don't tell me why it does stop it either.
UPDATE: " just got an email back from a tech at Samsung, tells me if phone is rooted or custom or if the knox counter is 0x1 you can not install samsung pay, told me the counter is part of the security being used in the Knox Suite." So I guess they are linked then.
Well i see what your getting at i think, but seems like no one has had an issue getting a replacement device with knox tripped. And samsung pay does not even open after tripping when it previously worked. So someone is lying.
Look at all the problems with apple pay. If you dont want your bank account tapped or credit cards maxxed dont break knox. On my opinion its not even that great of a feature, most banks dont support it, and many card terminals wont either until they get updated.
I was just thinking about this myself. I liked having a rooted phone before, but the advantages of having a sandbox on my phone for extra security is nice. You can even use it to have 2 of apps. Like ig or snapchat where u have more than 1 account. Besides some of the little things i miss like xposed, there is no real reason to root the phone, besides maybe tethering. You even can do themes if you want it to look different or a launcher. but can't totally reset your phone after that damn counter.
stldelsol said:
I was just thinking about this myself. I liked having a rooted phone before, but the advantages of having a sandbox on my phone for extra security is nice. You can even use it to have 2 of apps. Like ig or snapchat where u have more than 1 account. Besides some of the little things i miss like xposed, there is no real reason to root the phone, besides maybe tethering. You even can do themes if you want it to look different or a launcher. but can't totally reset your phone after that damn counter.
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I am still a newbie at this , I rooted my moto razor when I first got it, best damn phone at the time, then I got into Samsung because the camera was better, first Samsung was the S4, what an upgrade from moto... I rooted and tweaked it and never left Android 4.2.2, its still that way, but I wanted a better camera and thought everyone was all happy about lollipop so I got a S6, which it has KNOX, my old s4 has no knox not even in the bootloader, I used triangle away to reset the binary counter but with this S6 I am torn between root or no root, am I going to custom it out or stick around to see if Samsung Pay will actually work out. Rooting does have a purpose but if manufacturers would just let us get rid of bloat maybe the phones could be ours. I also wondered about if rooting would leave your phone open to security risks, I thought you had to grant root access to get into the sandbox.???
I disabled everything i dont use so almost feels like no bloat lol. If you open knox you can set it to be a launcher and have a different set of apps, background and so on. Its nice to keep work separate from regular life. But with root you can achieve a lot of cool things. But after years of rooting and custom roms i am happy with a vanilla phone........ for know haha
Hi All,
Been a while on here - please be gentle!
I have spent the last 6 hours looking into updating my firmware from Android 10!
I have done this on previous phones, but my current phone is proving a little more difficult. For the life of me, I cannot find the correct ROM to flash. Whenever I come to something I think I have found I seem to have another issue.
I've tried using various tools (Bitfrost) but got errors.
I'm in the UK, and as far as I can tell, my phone is “XAA”, “USA unbranded (default)”. I'm not bothered about changing the region code (unless it can be done easily).
Details::
SW ver.: SAOMC_SM-N975U_OYN_XAA_PP_0001
XAA/XAA/ATT
I would really appreciate some help from you guys who are way more informed and cleverer than me!
Thanks guys and gals!
Simon
EDIT: I have found a bit more informstion - I think I would be ok using SM-N975U1 - is this correct?
That's the umlocked Snapdragon variant...
I have two N10+'s; N975U/Pie, N975U1/Android 10. I would stay on Android 10 unless you want cpu cycle sucking scoped storage in all its glory.
Personally I prefer Pie to 10, better functionality and usability. With 11 you lose even more and 12 is fubar... in my opinion.
The best way to trash a stock N10+ is to mess with its firmware.
Rule #1 if a OS is fulfilling its mission, let it be!
Upgrades/updates can and do break things.
blackhawk said:
That's the umlocked Snapdragon variant...
I have two N10+'s; N975U/Pie, N975U1/Android 10. I would stay on Android 10 unless you want cpu cycle sucking scoped storage in all its glory.
Personally I prefer Pie to 10, better functionality and usability. With 11 you lose even more and 12 is fubar... in my opinion.
The best way to trash a stock N10+ is to mess with its firmware.
Rule #1 if a OS is fulfilling its mission, let it be!
Upgrades/updates can and do break things.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for that info ... I actually have no beef with A10 other than one issue which I thought maybe a firmware issue.
My NFC works (I can transfer files between phones) however, I cannot use Google Pay, or Samsung Pay. I have read somewhere that this was a firmware issue, hence my desire to update.
I have tried literally everything to get it working (cleared cache, re-booted). NFC Tools confirms it works, but it just does nothing at the checkout.
If I can fix this issue, I'll be happier!
Ratzz2 said:
Thanks for that info ... I actually have no beef with A10 other than one issue which I thought maybe a firmware issue.
My NFC works (I can transfer files between phones) however, I cannot use Google Pay, or Samsung Pay. I have read somewhere that this was a firmware issue, hence my desire to update.
I have tried literally everything to get it working (cleared cache, re-booted). NFC Tools confirms it works, but it just does nothing at the checkout.
If I can fix this issue, I'll be happier!
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You're welcome. It may be doing that because big sister Google thinks you need to upgrade to be secure. May have to do with the region you're using it in. I don't know. I never use those features and don't want them on the phone. Don't want anything to back door in using that route.
Depends how hell bent you are on having those features. You could easily lose more than you gain by upgrading, worse it may not resolve the issue. The N10+ is a valuable and reliable work horse that will run for years... just as it is. If it's running well otherwise I would try to find the root cause of this issue or simply use other workarounds rather than the shotgun approach.
Yeah, I was wondering about being in the UK with a phone registered in the US. But NFC doesn't read my credit card either. Would have thought that would be an option.
I'm not necessarily a huge NFC user, but the other day I forgot my wallet at the petrol station after filling my car. If I'd have had my NFC working, I'd have been able to fire it up and avoid the embarrassment!
Anyway, thanks for your help!
Be glad you have the Snapdragon variant. They are very reliable and run well stock when optimized. If you do upgrade to 11 a rollback to 10 isn't possible if you upgrade the boot loader.
There's always at least a small risk when flashing firmware which can trash the device. The only time I would flash a N10+ is if the rom was corrupted which barring a hardware failure is a very rare SUE, single upset event.
I never tried mine to see if Pay works nor have I ever set a screen lock. The fingerprint scanner could be dead for all I know.
The flip side to that is never being locked out* of my own device, no data lose, and double tap on/off. The device is glued to me as physical security is the only real security. I realize this may seem extreme to some, but it works well in the real world.
*a SEU or partial hardware can lock you out of your device. Had no lock been set, no lockout would have occurred. Got locked out of a PC bios like that. The password -was- correct
That caused a mountain of trouble...
Thank you my friend. Wise words indeed and duly noted...
Good morning everyone. As someone very curious about tech, and since they are advertising the Knox Vault feature on latest Exynos chips here in France, I wonder how the Knox Vault affects rooting. I had a rooted S8 and I couldn't launch things like SM pay, and health. I already read the white paper and to root guide in sticky, but I want to know if one of you actually have a teardown of the software part, or how does the root tamper with the Vault and the Knox keys. Thanks in advance to everyone that have answers!
loulou310 said:
Good morning everyone. As someone very curious about tech, and since they are advertising the Knox Vault feature on latest Exynos chips here in France, I wonder how the Knox Vault affects rooting. I had a rooted S8 and I couldn't launch things like SM pay, and health. I already read the white paper and to root guide in sticky, but I want to know if one of you actually have a teardown of the software part, or how does the root tamper with the Vault and the Knox keys. Thanks in advance to everyone that have answers! 10.0.0.0.1 192.168.1.254
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I got this,..
loulou310 said:
Good morning everyone. As someone very curious about tech, and since they are advertising the Knox Vault feature on latest Exynos chips here in France, I wonder how the Knox Vault affects rooting. I had a rooted S8 and I couldn't launch things like SM pay, and health. I already read the white paper and to root guide in sticky, but I want to know if one of you actually have a teardown of the software part, or how does the root tamper with the Vault and the Knox keys. Thanks in advance to everyone that have answers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a belief (with some proof) that the KNOX is tied to an E-Fuse (physical) on the board which breaks when we root or anything which alters the system. Once the fuse melts, nothing to be done. KNOX retaliates with the security measures like stopping the functions of the apps like S Secure, S Health, Pay and Pass to protect the device.. So far, there is no way to reverse the fuse condition. Motherboard replacement is the only option. Hope this helps your question.
Vorion said:
There is a belief (with some proof) that the KNOX is tied to an E-Fuse (physical) on the board which breaks when we root or anything which alters the system. Once the fuse melts, nothing to be done. KNOX retaliates with the security measures like stopping the functions of the apps like S Secure, S Health, Pay and Pass to protect the device.. So far, there is no way to reverse the fuse condition. Motherboard replacement is the only option. Hope this helps your question.
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Is not a physical fuse it's purely software. If you root, it breaks Knox. Knox is the security (think Fort Knox) that Samsung implemented. Once Knox is tripped it cannot be restored and you can no longer use Samsung Wallet, Secured Folder, most banking apps, Samsung Health, DeX, and creating a work profile.
gernerttl said:
Is not a physical fuse it's purely software. If you root, it breaks Knox. Knox is the security (think Fort Knox) that Samsung implemented. Once Knox is tripped it cannot be restored and you can no longer use Samsung Wallet, Secured Folder, most banking apps, Samsung Health, DeX, and creating a work profile.
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This is a false information. Learn more about KNOX and e-Fuse on these links.
What is a Knox Warranty Bit and how is it triggered?
eFuse - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
If it had been purely a software thing, Devs at XDA, Github, StackOverflow communities would have found a way to reverse it many many years ago. Some devs here tried to find ways to reverse it. It's almost a decade now.
Edit: Banking apps have nothing to do with KNOX. It's to do with Google's Safety Net Attestation. And DEX will work fine on a KNOX triggered device as it did on mine.
Vorion said:
This is a false information. Learn more about KNOX and e-Fuse on these links.
What is a Knox Warranty Bit and how is it triggered?
eFuse - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
If it had been purely a software thing, Devs at XDA, Github, StackOverflow communities would have found a way to reverse it many many years ago. Some devs here tried to find ways to reverse it. It's almost a decade now.
Edit: Banking apps have nothing to do with KNOX. It's to do with Google's Safety Net Attestation. And DEX will work fine on a KNOX triggered device as it did on mine.
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You are correct about the hardware part. However, anything that relies on Knox will not work. That includes any banking apps that rely on it. There are ways around getting banking apps working again using Magisk. It depends on the banking app.
Also, if you have the US version of the S22 you won't be able to root it anyway. US Carriers required that Samsung lock the bootloader. Nobody has been able to unlock the bootloader, yet.
You don't need to change out the motherboard though. If you send it back to Samsung, they can reload the firmware. It's a matter of rewriting the firmware back to the hardware with the proper encryption keys (in otherwards a full factory reinstall). It's not cheap though. It would be cheaper to buy a new phone.
gernerttl said:
You are correct about the hardware part. However, anything that relies on Knox will not work. That includes any banking apps that rely on it. There are ways around getting banking apps working again using Magisk. It depends on the banking app.
Also, if you have the US version of the S22 you won't be able to root it anyway. US Carriers required that Samsung lock the bootloader. Nobody has been able to unlock the bootloader, yet.
You don't need to change out the motherboard though. If you send it back to Samsung, they can reload the firmware. It's a matter of rewriting the firmware back to the hardware with the proper encryption keys (in otherwards a full factory reinstall). It's not cheap though. It would be cheaper to buy a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, any app which relies on KNOX, won't work on a fuse-blown device. However, only a handful of Samsung's proprietory apps rely on Knox. Earlier, I used to change the TIMA value and get S Health app to work by circumventing Knox Status. That's not happening nowadays. Banking apps rely only on Google's Safety Net. Banking apps have no direct ties to Knox. Magisk module, Universal Safety Net Fix being the solution. Again, it's called Safety Net Fix for the same reason.
There are some sources to unlock US variants. I never had the need to use their services. So I can't recommend it. But there are people who claim to have unlocked their US devices through their services.
About flashing the firmware with "proper" encryption keys is an "interesting" news. But all these years, I have only known about Samsung Customer Care around the world, telling the people that the motherboard replacement being the only option in such cases. Again, you are implying that there's a software fix. May I know where you got this info?
Vorion said:
There is a belief (with some proof) that the KNOX is tied to an E-Fuse (physical) on the board which breaks when we root or anything which alters the system. Once the fuse melts, nothing to be done. KNOX retaliates with the security measures like stopping the functions of the apps like S Secure, S Health, Pay and Pass to protect the device.. So far, there is no way to reverse the fuse condition. Motherboard replacement is the only option. Hope this helps your question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gernerttl said:
Is not a physical fuse it's purely software. If you root, it breaks Knox. Knox is the security (think Fort Knox) that Samsung implemented. Once Knox is tripped it cannot be restored and you can no longer use Samsung Wallet, Secured Folder, most banking apps, Samsung Health, DeX, and creating a work profile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vorion said:
Yes, any app which relies on KNOX, won't work on a fuse-blown device. However, only a handful of Samsung's proprietory apps rely on Knox. Earlier, I used to change the TIMA value and get S Health app to work by circumventing Knox Status. That's not happening nowadays. Banking apps rely only on Google's Safety Net. Banking apps have no direct ties to Knox. Magisk module, Universal Safety Net Fix being the solution. Again, it's called Safety Net Fix for the same reason.
There are some sources to unlock US variants. I never had the need to use their services. So I can't recommend it. But there are people who claim to have unlocked their US devices through their services.
About flashing the firmware with "proper" encryption keys is an "interesting" news. But all these years, I have only known about Samsung Customer Care around the world, telling the people that the motherboard replacement being the only option in such cases. Again, you are implying that there's a software fix. May I know where you got this info?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps you might like to try my little module if you have magisk installed ...
GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices
Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices - GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" f...
github.com
73sydney said:
Perhaps you might like to try my little module if you have magisk installed ...
GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices
Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices - GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" f...
github.com
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Thanks. I'm not rooted, nor do I intend to. My S22 Ultra does everything I want and need it to do as is.
gernerttl said:
Thanks. I'm not rooted, nor do I intend to. My S22 Ultra does everything I want and need it to do as is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure why you replied in a thread about rooting, just to tell me you werent interested in rooting?
Seems odd....
73sydney said:
Perhaps you might like to try my little module if you have magisk installed ...
GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices
Removes "sakv2" from ro.security.keystore.keytype to help make Samsung Health run on rooted Samsung devices - GitHub - stylemessiah/SamsungHealthSecurityProps: Removes "sakv2" f...
github.com
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I would be trying this in a few days. Thank you for the suggestion and your work!
73sydney said:
Not sure why you replied in a thread about rooting, just to tell me you werent interested in rooting?
Seems odd....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do have the same feeling. Feels like he has never used rooted/Knox Tripped Samsung device yet he is giving out his opinions on root and Knox, Magisk, etc., which are far from the facts. When I asked about the source of his claims, he went silent untill your reply. It's better to leave it at that.