Develop Bugs

[Q] why does it take too long to charge our HOX

it takes around 3.5 hours to charge the one x from 0 to 100 % and it takes the galaxy s3 around 2 hours,,,knowing that the s3
has a bigger battery (2100 mah) and the one x has a (1800 mah) and they both use 1 amp charger,, why does it then take the hox much longer to charge??

yes i require htc to explain, because physics says 1800mAh/1000mA = 1.8hours which i didnt see so far. I'm assuming its a calibration problem and we are all overcharging our batteries.

That's not what physics says.
Only the first hour or so is constant current, after that it becomes constant voltage and the charge current goes down.
3 hours is.about normal charge time for a lithium ion battery, faster than that shortens its life.

Yes you are right the voltage difference greatly drops esp when battery reaches 90%, but i still feel my HOX takes much longer than all my other phones to charge.

HOX's battery is Li-ion Polymer. Other phones use Lithium Ion battery.
Fast charge is not so good and over charged is seriously problem with Li-ion Polymer. So, to protect your battery, HTC do not use fast charge method as well as they control the charging especially low-down the charging current when the battery reach 90%. If you use battery monitor widget to test, you will see that you could charge the battery overnight without any problem, the current some time being zero.
Don't worry man, it is normal and it is the best way for you phone.

snipervn said:
HOX's battery is Li-ion Polymer. Other phones use Lithium Ion battery.
Fast charge is not so good and over charged is seriously problem with Li-ion Polymer. So, to protect your battery, HTC do not use fast charge method as well as they control the charging especially low-down the charging current when the battery reach 90%. If you use battery monitor widget to test, you will see that you could charge the battery overnight without any problem, the current some time being zero.
Don't worry man, it is normal and it is the best way for you phone.
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Nah, Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer are about the same. I had LiPo battery in my Nokia 7110 from 1999 (BPS-1). They're hardly new.

BenPope said:
Nah, Lithium Ion and Lithium Ion Polymer are about the same. I had LiPo battery in my Nokia 7110 from 1999 (BPS-1). They're hardly new.
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check this pls:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1667117
I am RC Player and I have some experiences with Li-Ion and Li-Po, it is quite different. I could charge the Li-Ion with normal charger (same as Ni-Cd or Ni-MH) but for the Li-po, I have to use computerize charger (or at least charger with balance unit) to control the current, time....

snipervn said:
check this pls:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1667117
I am RC Player and I have some experiences with Li-Ion and Li-Po, it is quite different. I could charge the Li-Ion with normal charger (same as Ni-Cd or Ni-MH) but for the Li-po, I have to use computerize charger (or at least charger with balance unit) to control the current, time....
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I did contribute to thread you posted.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
"Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary."
I don't think you should charge Li ion battery with NiCd/NiMH charger, it'll damage them.

So there is no clear answer for this??
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

tell4ever said:
So there is no clear answer for this??
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
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The clear answer is that Samsung have traded battery longevity against charge time. This makes sense, the battery is user replaceable.
Normal Li Ion charge times are around 3 hours without significantly reducing battery life over time. If the battery is in use, expect it to take a little longer.

Battery messed up?

So I have a zerolemon 10000 mah battery for my note 3, I just switched to cm11 and noticed the battery percentage meter was going wacky and wasn't being accurate (eg. It would jump up 10 percent after a reboot or last hours on 1 percent with heavy use) so I followed the instructions for fixing it, I let it drain completely and then I charged it to 100 percent while the phone was off, then I turned it on and charged it again until it showed full just like it said to do in the instructions, after this I went into my battery status app just out of curiosity, there I saw that the battery had 4250 mv , I am alarmed by this because the battery is only supposed to be 3.9 voltz, is my battery damaged? I always thought that the batteries have circuits in them to prevent overcharge then how come it overcharged my battery??
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app

Actually battery voltage is a little bit tricky:
first of all it will show higher with no load than with load on it and higher the load, lower the voltage, full charge or not.
Secondly for example my original phone battery is rated 3.8v, but at full charge will be higher than 4 volts.
I don't remember how Li ion batteries are rated, but for example NiCd are rated at 1.2v, which would be the voltage the battery shows when under full load, under no load the voltage will be more than 1.5v and if that NiCd battery shows 1.2 v under no load it usually means it's close to being completely discharged. I don't have specs for your particular battery, but I'm sure fully charged with no load will show more than 4v.
Since the battery has protective circuit, it should still be within specs, before the damage occurs, so I don't think you should worry too much, however if you were doing this all the time, I'm sure you will shorten battery life.

Full charge for lipo is about 4.2V. So the battery is not overcharged. The batteries have a protective board on them, and the charge control on the phone won't allow overcharging either.

[Q] Nexus 7 2013 wifi - battery derated/less capacity then 3950mA

Dear All,
I recently purchase nexus 7 (2013) wifi 16 GB. On the package device was manufactured on 09 2013.
The device is new. It even came with Android 4.3 and was updated to 5.1.1 by me.
When i bought it was not charged. and it was dead.
It was charged and on cpuz it shows battery as 3448 mA instead of 3950 mA,
and now it is even showing less as 3334,
what is happening? Please guide

Amps, milliAmps is current. Current is what drives all electronics. Current and voltage depend on each other, as current drops, so does voltage, as voltage drops, so does current. V=I.R or I=V/R.
Unless of course I am wrong, the more you use your device, the more the charge stored in the battery gets depleted, the voltage starts to drop, which means current drops. As charge moves from the negative side(yes, you can google to verify this) to the positive side of the battery, it tries the get the potential difference(voltage) to 0. And as I just said, as voltage drops, so does current.

Battery capacity is marked in Ah. For smaller capacity this is mAh (milli Ampere Hour) the amount of current it can push per hour. Capacity of batteries goes down with usage and age. It is a rechargeable battery that loses capacity simple by using it. NiMH batteries are notorious for their 'memory' effect, which can be corrected to a certain degree. Lithium based batteries have almost zero memory effect. But all batteries lose capacity over time.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Free mobile app

Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS?

I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?

513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
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You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app

Agree with previous post. But if it makes you feel better, just don't use a dash charger...
Very simple.

lummujaj said:
You made my night... Slower charger kills battery not fast charging.. fast charge save battery to be honest. And you dont have to be worry since the batteries now are LI-lon . Go get info in google about the batteries . All i can say you got infos wrong.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.

Because Dash Charge seems to be re-labeled Vooc charging from OPPO, I can tell you, that the last two years with charging minimum one times every day, there is no bad effect on the battery (still the first one).
Sent from my Find7 using XDA-Developers mobile app

513263337 said:
OK. I didn't know.
I was speaking from my past experience with Samsung Galaxy Note 4. I bought couple of original Samsung batteries and rotate them throughout daily usage. I noticed a significant difference in battery life comparing the ones that I used fast charge on vs the ones I didn't. After that I stick to NOT using fast charge.
Of course, that's nothing scientific. And Samsung uses a different fast charge mechanism (higher voltage) than OnePlus (higher current), so there could be difference there too.
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Samsung devices are notorious for killing batteries and its more likely hardware than it is the battery itself, u will be fine

I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?

513263337 said:
I plan to use this phone for many years, so I'm worried that the fast charging might do damage to the battery in the long term or shorten its lifespan, so I'd rather charge it "slower". Is there a way to turn off the fast charging in the OS? Or is my worry unsubstantiated?
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Click to collapse
I use Samsung 1.5 Amp charger and keep my battery between 40% to 80%
I think these are best for long term usage.

repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
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I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.

iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
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Well, it was my first thought, but everyone in this topic is telling me that OP works different than Samsung!

iam_adarsh said:
I used a samsung S3 before and overnight charging killed my battery! Bless samsung for making battery removable on S3!
If i were you, I wouldn't leave my precious OP3 on an all-night charge.
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that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge

dlhxr said:
that's the problem of the charger or the phone itself. thecharger is designed not to charge when the battery is full. What I want to say is you experienced an accident and sorry for you.
The most serious threat to the battery is high temperature. OnePlus 3 reduce the charging heat by its dash charge. The dash charge pushes low voltage directly to the phone, which mitigates the heating problem by pushing high electric current and making the voltage transition process in dash charger. Most of other phones still use high voltage because they fail to create high current. recalling the physics in high school, the power is current multiplied by voltage and energy equals to power multiplied by time. than you would understand the powerful feature of dash charge
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The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A

lapocompris said:
The power is current multiplied by voltage so what's the difference between high current mutiplied by low voltage versus low current multiplied by high voltage ?
2V x A = V x 2A
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qc3.0 uses low current and high voltage. Dash uses high current and low voltage. As a result, they have similar power and both charge quickly. However, the heating problem is more serious for qc 3.0. The difference of the battery voltage and charger voltage is the leading factor that determines the transition efficiency. The bigger the difference is, the more heat charging process generates.
So~ you could look up for qc3.0. for mi 5, it has three adaptive mode: 5V2.5A、9V2A、12V1.5A. for dash, we have 5V4A

repsol89 said:
I have a similar question: does it make any problem if I leave the phone in (dash) charge for the whole night? I mean, if I sleep for 7hrs I'll have 1h of fast charging and 6hrs of nothing-but-charger-heating. Will this habit hurt the phone's battery or the charger itself?
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Click to collapse
There is no problem with leaving your phone on the charger. I do this with every phone since years.
If people experience something bad with it, their phone or battery are broken. The current tech just keeps the battery at full capacity once it's full. Never had any problem.

So many "opinions" but mostly incorrect. The answer to the OPs question is that you don't have to worry about quick charge destroying your battery. It will not have significant impact on your battery capacity. I would have been more worried about breaking the usb type-c port(see point 2 below). All things considered, after 2-3 years you will probably buy a new phone anyway and also you can always buy a replacement battery cheap. But you can simply use a normal charger which delivers <3A with 5V so you don't have to worry about anything.
1- Slow charge does not damage lithium-ion chemistry batteries. You can read about lithium-ion charging here. But neither fast charge will damage lithium-ion as long as the battery temperature is not extremely high. Also temperature at different charge stages effect the capacity decrease (source) But you will be fine as long as the battery temperature is less than 45C. The charging IC should stop the charging process if it exceeds it anyway.
2- Qualcomm's quick charge is much better than voop/dash charge from an engineering standpoint. This is why also USB organization's power delivery (PD) standard uses similar scheme. The problem is the cable and the connector. The maximum allowed current at 5V is 3A with usb type-c connector (source). If you provide more current, you need to use a thicker cable(dash/vooc cables). But you can't change the connector, and it may damage your connector in the long run to use 3+A currents to charge. Because there is a contact resistance (R) and the power lost in the connector is square of current (I) times R. Meaning R*I^2, it will wear off the connector faster. This is why some companies with some engineering skills opt in to use higher voltages instead of higher currents.
3- You can't push more current to lithium-ion battery than it accepts. The maximum current is voltage delta (between charging voltage and battery voltage) divided by internal resistance. This is why you can charge empty battery much faster. If you use an app like Ampere from play store, you can see the voltage of your battery before and after you plug in your charger. If you plug in a normal charger, you will see that it goes up a little bit. If you plug a quick charger it goes up to ~4.35V
4- Yes, there is conversion inefficiencies for quick charge inside the phone, and it will warm up the "phone" and battery only indirectly. The conversion IC are normally >90% efficient (source). This does not mean that your battery will be destroyed. It is perfectly fine to charge lithium-batteries with up to 45C temperatures (source).
4- If overnight charging killed your battery, your battery was faulty (or you had 3rd party battery?). The battery should be capable of holding 4.35v charge. You would need to store battery at 4.35V full charge for over 3 months to loose 20% capacity (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_store_batteries). Having full charge few hours overnight won't destroy it unless your battery or device is faulty.
With all this information, I would rather opt in for USB-PD/Qualcomm Quick Charge solutions than VOOC/DASH solutions. I think eventually only USB-PD will remain and everybody will use it as a standard only.

Battery capacity calculation

So I bought myself a decent USB multimeter (RuiDeng UM25C) because I was curious about my Mi 6 battery capacity after 20 months of everyday heavy usage.
I was avoiding charging to 100% all this time (max to 70%), only charging to full once a month maybe and never using a phone during charging. I also rarely discharged to less than 30%. The full charge counter in /sys/class/power_supply/bms/cycle_count is showing 642 full accumulated charge cycles, so quite a lot.
USB meter showed 14300 mWh after a full charge 0-100% (which is 110% of the original capacity 12900 mWh, impossible). So I did a search and found an article saying that Quick Charge 3.0 has around 90% charging efficiency.
So I made a quick mathematics and calculated that the battery should have taken in 14300 mAh x 90% = 12870 mAh (the rest of energy dissipated as a heat), which is basically new battery's capacity (which is again quite improbable, even with my special battery treating ).
My question is: is this calculation wrong? And if it is totally wrong - what should I count in additionally to get the more proper mWh estimation?
Thanks for any help