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Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
UPDATES:
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CASUALTY LIST (please PM me any casualties, the list seems to be growing in numbers rapidly)
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Battery Emitting "Smoke" : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=904577
Battery Failure during Trickle Charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=900412
SBC killed my battery: http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery.html
MIUI + Savage = dead battery http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10422140&postcount=9 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10432778&postcount=139
ANOTHER dead battery http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery-2.html#post517436
Battery loses charge after extended time with sbc kernel http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10431788&postcount=49
Another one bites the dust... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10457753&postcount=162
COUNT ME IN http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10469184&postcount=174
Current Count: 8
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Various Dev Reactions:
Ziggy's editorial on WHY these kernels shouldn't exist and are dangerous (written before the new epidemic of dead batteries):http://www.ziggy471.com/2011/01/02/overcharging-batteries/
Netarchy's post explaining why he's REMOVING all SBC kernels from his page: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10421166&postcount=6185
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THIS IS A CALL TO ALL ROM/KERNAL DEVELOPERS: Please don't include this feature in our favorite roms. I have been having to switch Kernels on my latest roms becuase I don't want to risk killing my battery (and that is a PAIN)
My $0.02:
I trust these developers on this site ALOT. What they have managed to do with the software is amazing. However, software is software. These trickle-charge kernels were amazing SOFTWARE-WISE. However, the effects of charges on batteries are not your specialty, so while it may be amazing that you all developed these kernels, there effect on the battery is not alright. I (sorry) trust an industry of battery/software engineers over some basement-developers who like pushing the limits (Pushing the limits is awesome, just not when it comes to batteries lol)
hmsheen10 said:
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, there is a reason why all the phone makers have them charge like that and there is also a reason why putting custom roms on your phone voids your warranty.
Remember hearing about all those ipod and lap top batteries that liked to blow up?
Edit: he's also forgetting that when the battery gets close to full the voltage starts changing less and less, to the point that it is nearly impossible to accurately tell how much battery you have when it is over 80% full
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
i knew it was too good to be true :\
yea i get amazing battery life with this trickle charging only when i leave it on charger for around 7+ hours. Sounds like i should stop using that then damn
Edit: didnt mean to quote anyone
From what I read the article didnt reveal any specifics to if and when it will damage a battery.The article seemed to suggest that because battery manufacturers changed how they implimented charging it means that trickle charging is bad. It does not have enough variables in this observation to come to any conclusion. If advancements have been made in the battery industry you could also come to the conlcusion that trickle charging is or would be ok.
I am not trying to go against the article or this thread but simply wondering if after a thorough evaluation of the battery capacity after say 3 months using trickle charging and one without trickle charging we give an conclusion.
If need be I will run my phone with trickle charging, will someone else volunteer there phone for research?
For the extra bump I get every day now Ill by a new battery for 15 bucks a little more often. Its worth it for me YMMV
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
I think that the makers of all these new kernels than should put up a warning specifically pertaining to the dangers of the kernel
Sent from my EVO
Quoting ms79723 :
Will this damage my battery?
This charging method doesnt damage the batteries at all. It shouldnt. Because our batteries dont even charge up to 4.2V without the tweak. They charge up to 4.2V the first charge, then drop all the way down to 4.08V or something and then does these weird short burst chargers to 4.1-4.125V. Thats why there's the rapid drop in the morning. Because your voltage is actually at 4.125V and that's not 100%. So with this tweak, the charger keeps charging until you're at 4.2V (or the maximum voltage your battery can get to) and then it trickle chargers while at that voltage. The charger itself never turns off. Thats not a bad thing. Because as you reach your actual voltage, the mA decreases. Which is why our phones will never be damaged. You ever want to know why its really easy to charge from 50-80% but the charge from 90-100% seems to take so long? Its because from 50% the mA going into the phone is in the 600's. Once it reaches 90%, the mA is around 150 and once it reaches 95% you're looking at 90mA. The phone when absolutely idle uses anywhere from 60-120mA, even when on the charger. So charging from 90% to 100% takes longer becaus the mA going into the phone isnt always higher than the mA you're losing. This is the same with charging past 100%. As you leave the phone on the charger with this tweak, you're mA will decrease from 50mA all the way down to 2mA overnight. But on the charger you're losing about 30-60mA already, so you'll never overcharge the battery, in best case scenarios, you'll just maintain the voltage of 4.2 or around 4.2V.
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Unfortunately, if you read their thread, they say they disagree that any harm is being done.
Personally, I am not a battery expert, though I do have some experience with them in the EV car field, but my understanding is these batteries will be damaged if continuously held at a full charge. That is why the manufacturers design the system to full charge, then discharge to approximately 90% and then charge again, continuously cycling the battery.
From what I have read and from talking to the guys who design Li-ion batteries, they say that prolonging the time that the battery is at full charge significantly reduces battery life. Over time it can also lead to overheating resulting in an unsafe battery. For those reasons, virtually all properly designed charging circuits for Li-ion batteries are set up to let the battery sit at full charge for the shortest time possible.
Vann's quote from the kernel thread proves my point, what it appears they are trying to do is hold the battery fully charged while it is on the charger. That might increase the amount of time you can run your phone in the short run. But in the long run it will kill the battery.
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
alekosy said:
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
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Click to collapse
wtf.........?
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
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Click to collapse
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
wfrandy said:
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
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Click to collapse
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
Full charge is attained after the voltage threshold has been reached and the current has dropped to 3% of the rated current or has leveled off.
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Click to collapse
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days.
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Click to collapse
What am I missing?
guys... this is from the article put up:
When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
The "trickle charge" kernels never go near 4.30v, mine stops at 4.19. Also, the temperature during the "trickle" overnight is very low. after 8 hours of "trickling" my battery was at 30 degrees C. Only time will tell if the battery life is SLIGHTLY shortened from this charging, but it is in NO WAY NEAR exploding, catching fire, blah blah blah. Stop scaring people, read the articles you post yourself and actually look at what is going on in these kernels. You may surprise yourself!
Now, if you cant get a replacement battery because you live on the moon and want your battery life to stay 3 years instead of 2 1/2, then it is your choice to not use these kernels, but dont scare others away just because you don't want to partake.
aph said:
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
What am I missing?
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Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
wtf.........?
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Jfree3000 said:
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
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Click to collapse
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
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Click to collapse
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
alekosy said:
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
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Click to collapse
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
sd2649 said:
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
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Click to collapse
And try JuiceDefender with UltimateJuice, the 2nd app is a small fee paid app for donation, but it's very useful with the right kernel and rom for your liking. Trust on that, I think everyone would probably agree that this way would be the safest legit way.
MOD EDIT: Removed at the request of AndroidAdvices.com
Source ::
http://androidadvices.com/bump-char...mpaign=Feed:+AndroidAdvices+(Android+Advices)
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
***DON'T DO DRUGS***
?????? Believe it or not ??????
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
Lmao thats like a whole day of charging.
raolemo said:
Lmao thats like a whole day of charging.
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Hahaha ....
Funny..
Why not hole night ....????
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
Its like you are calibrating your battery again and again... I hav evn seen a thread a same like this for my psp years ago and it worked on it... Still to test on my phone
Sent from my GT-S5360 using XDA
I can't find any logical reason to explain how this method will work. I'm a chemist student, and I know the technology which used in our battery. as far as I know, charge our battery longer than its full time will decrease our battery life.
btw, it may sounds silly. after some years, we'll found that our battery power decreased. it will drain quicker than usual. if this happen, we may wrap our battery into a plastic bag then put it into freezer for 3-7 days.
I don't think bump charging is such a good idea. Bump charging kills your battery over time. I'll link an article later about it, soon as I find it.
Tapatalked.
kurotsugi said:
...as far as I know, charge our battery longer than its full time will decrease our battery life. ...
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Silvane said:
I don't think bump charging is such a good idea. Bump charging kills your battery over time. I'll link an article later about it, soon as I find it.
.
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Click to collapse
+1
charge more than necessary is a bad idea. if you have good phone, they have overcharge protection circuit that cut charge current. so charge over 100% only waste your time and electric bill. if you have bad phone, that make your battery overcharge, and that's very2 bad. bump charge maybe can fooling protection circuit, but that's make your battery overcharge.
here is my tips, it will double your battery capacities.
- charge your battery until 100%
- unplug your charger, turn off phone if still on
- go to your local store, and buy new battery
- swap your battery and charge your new battery
ok, that's a joke. but it's a good idea if you far from electric for few days. and if you use your phone for years, buy extra battery after 6 month to 1 year after your phone release is a good idea (if you have extra money of course) because it's cheaper (a lot of supply in market).
Here's the article. http://byrong.com/PowerTesting/
It's pretty long so I'll post the important points here.
Interestingly enough, improvements in battery management technology have compounded the average user’s perception of this problem. Older phones were rather inelegant in their charging behavior; usually filling the battery to capacity and then switching to a trickle current to maintain the highest charge possible. This offered the highest usage time in the short-term, but was damaging the battery over the course of ownership. As explained at Battery University, “The time at which the battery stays at [maximum charge] should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures.”[1]
This is why many new phones will “lose” up to 10% within a few minutes of coming off the charger. The reality is that the battery was only at 100% capacity for a brief moment, after which the battery management system allowed it to slowly dip down to around 90%. Leaving the phone plugged in overnight does not make a difference: the phone only uses the wall current to maintain a partial charge state.
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Bump It. Or Should You?
One technique that has gained popularity in the user community is "bump charging." To bump charge a device, turn it off completely, and plug it into a charger. Wait until the indicator light shows a full charge (on the ADR6300, for example, the charging LED changes from amber to green) but do not yet turn the device back on. Instead, disconnect and immediately reconnect the power cord. The device will now accept more charge before saying it is full. This disconnect/reconnect process can be repeated multiple times, each time squeezing just a little bit more into the battery. Does it work?
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Click to collapse
The answer, of course, is that bump charging definitely works.
So what does it all mean?
If you absolutely need the highest capacity on a device like this, you will need to bump charge. There are currently people experimenting with "fixes" for this, but I have yet to see one that works. Be warned, however, that repeated bump charging will wear your battery faster and begin to reduce its capacity. If you are a "power user" who will buy a new battery a few months from now anyway, this presumably isn't a concern. If you are an average consumer who uses a device for a few years, I would recommend that you stay away from bump charging. The bottom line is that you don't really "need" to do it unless you are actually depleting your battery to 0% on a regular basis.
If you are someone who can top off your phone on a regular basis, do it. Plug it in when you're at home. Plug it in when you're at your desk. As explained by Battery University, "Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory."[2]
Beyond that, the best advice I can offer is to stop paying such close attention to your battery gauge and to just use your phone. Charge it whenever you can, and then stop obsessing over the exact numbers. If you really need more usage time, buy an extended-capacity battery and use it normally.
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Click to collapse
Still pretty long, but worth reading.
I don't believe it:''(
Hehehe..:-[:-[:-[
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
irfanbagus said:
+1
charge more than necessary is a bad idea. if you have good phone, they have overcharge protection circuit that cut charge current. so charge over 100% only waste your time and electric bill. if you have bad phone, that make your battery overcharge, and that's very2 bad. bump charge maybe can fooling protection circuit, but that's make your battery overcharge.
here is my tips, it will double your battery capacities.
- charge your battery until 100%
- unplug your charger, turn off phone if still on
- go to your local store, and buy new battery
- swap your battery and charge your new battery
ok, that's a joke. but it's a good idea if you far from electric for few days. and if you use your phone for years, buy extra battery after 6 month to 1 year after your phone release is a good idea (if you have extra money of course) because it's cheaper (a lot of supply in market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 its all just wast our time and decrease the battery life. i think use a tweak script is enough
reyvababtista said:
+1 its all just wast our time and decrease the battery life. i think use a tweak script is enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with u :-\:-\
Ive read through XDA that bump charging increases your battery life but reduces the battery's life span
Welcome back stamatis. Yes, if you read my post in the first page it explains how.
Tapatalked.
Speaking for myself I've always been kinda aware of the failure potential of these batteries. For instance, I tend to not leave the phone unattended during charging and also use such tasker profiles as to shutdown when charge below 5% or alert when charging above 95%. These latter measures and others are mostly to help with battery longevity as well as or rather my ocdness on this subject.
My only gripe is that I never succeeded in instilling the same 'respect' for battery in my wife.. Pre or even post-note she always forgets her tablet or her phone plugged in the charger, even when no one's at home, sometimes for days!
But this recent note7 'mishap' let me tell you, made me even more wary of the destructive potential of the batteries in our phones. Especially since most of my latest snapdragon devices (m7, z5) get very warm while performing various mundane tasks (syncing via wifi/lte, camera, games rendering etc), much warmer then the defunct note.
Did this event affect the way you use your mobile devices and how? Is there any particular strategy you use with this respect? Or do you rather think that the failure rate being so low it's rather silly to worry about it?
millicent said:
Did this event affect the way you use your mobile devices and how?
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Nope, it hasn't made me change anything so far. I don't believe the issue with the Note 7 is directly a result of the battery since Samsung had two manufacturers make batteries and in both instances Note 7 devices with either battery still failed.
Is there any particular strategy you use with this respect?
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Click to collapse
As long as the device is working properly meaning there's no defect that I am aware of (as in no global recall in effect, etc) in any part of the power or charging systems then I tend to leave my devices plugged in until they charge to 100% status then I'll usually leave them connected to the charger for up to 30 minutes past that point then disconnect. With the GS7A I have, I only charge it once every 2.5-3 days typically and that's from 5-10% back to 100% using a Samsung 2A charger - I don't use the factory fast charger and I don't use fast charging because I believe that ends up shortening the potential lifespan of the battery cell itself.
I did not say that's a fact for everyone to live by or accept as the gospel truth, I said for myself personally I believe that fast charging shortens the lifespan of the battery cell itself.
For the record I've owned several hundred devices over the decades, some with Ni-Cad batteries, most with Li-Ion over the past decade, and a few with Li-Po technolology and I only had one instance of a battery having a problem (not a failure). It was a knockoff cheap Chinese clone battery for my Galaxy S4 Active several years ago and it bloated up one afternoon - thankfully that GS4A had a removable back cover and I caught the swelling up very fast because as soon as it started to bloat up the back cover literally popped off about 4 inches above my desk and landed on my keyboard. I of course took the battery out immediately and put it in a small ceramic box my Wife had laying around, nothing else happened and I ended up taking it to a local battery store here in Las Vegas and turning it in for safe destruction.
See, there really is a good reason to have removable batteries and removable back covers on some devices.
Or do you rather think that the failure rate being so low it's rather silly to worry about it?
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Click to collapse
As stated above, I don't believe the actual point of failure with the Note 7 is the battery directly - the burning up and explosions of the battery cells is the effect, not the cause. Something is happening to cause the battery (now two different ones, which most of us know about now) to fail.
Now it remains to be seen if the cause can be determined for the failures.
There is one other, perhaps more placebo induced effect, routine I'd do every once in a while, related to battery calibration. So I'd let the battery go as low as can possibly go, or let it turn off by itself, charge at cold until 100% then power on while still plugged in and finally unplug when os fully booted up.
Is this still a proper thing to do or it rather stresses the battery uselessly?
After I got this GS7A I did allow it to run down entirely till it shut off once, just one time and I actually got concerned because when I then plugged in the charger all I got on the display was a battery outline (the white battery icon that's hollowed out) and I was expecting the lightning-bolt symbol to appear there to indicate yes it's charging, after which it should change into the progress meter along the inside bottom of the icon.
That didn't happen.
So I sat there waiting. 5 minutes went by, then about 10 minutes, and I started to worry that perhaps I'd just killed it completely. But about 11 minutes after I plugged in the charger the lightning bolt appeared for about 10 seconds, flashing a few times, then I saw a thin green line across the bottom. Success!
But it did pretty much scare me for a few minutes at the thought of potentially ruining it by doing that so, I don't intend to ever let that happen. Your practice you mentioned of using Tasker to shut down at 5% (not a complete discharge like I did that one time) and to stop charging at 95% is a good idea and something I'm going to have to do more research into.
I've spent a lot of time over the years reading research papers at Battery University and I know that full discharge of a Li-Ion cell is a bad idea but I still ended up doing it. I was actually trying to capture a screenshot at 1% then I planned to initiate a shutdown immediately after that but taking the screenshot just killed it, oops.
But the idea of shutdown at maybe 4% and stopping the charging at 95% (or at least providing me with some kind of alert I can hear clearly and charge or disconnect as required) is a very good idea so thanks for mentioning that.
My research and understanding of the available info at Battery University is that it's better to do your best to not let a Li-Ion cell go below at least 30-40% charged most of the time with short periods of charging to bring it back up to the 90-95% point and, and occasionally - like maybe once a month - allow it to go deeper into the discharge state but not fully (I learned my lesson on that one) and then charge it back to full. The question is what that "full" point might be because some papers say charging Li-Ion to full capacity ruins them as time passes and other papers say it's just fine to do so occasionally - the problem is there's no absolute consensus on either method.
The deep discharge method once a month might work better as a method of calibrating (?!?!) but I honestly don't know for sure, not sure anyone does. But I think I'm going to start using Tasker for that 4-5% shutdown and 95% top off point on my Active, it sure can't actually hurt the device and could give me longer battery lifespan or should I say longevity as you did - that word actually seems more appropriate because most folks hear "battery lifespan" and they only understand that to mean how long it runs on a single charge which isn't the meaning I'm trying to get across.
all i can say after this incident , my knowledge of ion battery deepen and yes in case of emergency , you cant remove if its seal tight shut inside , something to consider , Samsung .
for me, no it's not made me more wary, I always am re Li cells as there have been many failures not only in phones. I have laptops, eCigs, torches etc that all use Li cells. That said, I use the devices as "normal" but stay aware of how warm they've gotten in charge/use, try to not drop them or leave them on/in a source of external heating etc. Anything containing combustible material can go bang after all. A disposable lighter left on an iron fireplace with the fire burning goes bang very well indeed, as would one of these cells in the same circumstances
I tend to top off the charge regularly since I have Qi chargers on my desk and in the car holder but never charge overnight while I sleep. I'd guess my operating capacity ranges from 100% down to maybe 30% and mainly hanging in the 60-80% range as the device tops up. SatNav tends to mean in-car the device only gathers a minor gain even over a couple hours use as the draw from the screen/cpu offsets the input from the Qi charger plate. The phone of course gets warm in this mode, hence it is set halfway down on the centre dash rather than up high and in the sun. And no I'm not always looking at it - voice guidance is very handy
On charge levels, I've also read a number of articles on various cell types. Typically the recommendations are that Li cells effectively eat themselves if kept at 100%, degrading and losing capacity over time. Hence its best if storing them to have them at 50-70% and not fully charged. Of course whether the phone actually takes the cell to its 100% limit or its charge management calls 100% at the 95% of cell capacity I don't know. When fully discharge has happened then yes it does seem to take longer for the charge icon to start ticking along, seen the same on the old iPad-1 I have, probably because the initial part has to be a very slow energising charge to get the cell to a point when it can accept more current and maybe the icon only shows rates above a certain current.
re the swelling cell. I've not used non-Samsung cells in my note 1/3 or S2 but have seen Sammy's cells also swell when they get to end of life. Both notes had this happen around the 18-26 month mark but not to the extent of the back popping off/open. Dramatic shortening of on-battery runtime yes, but from the outside no real visible indications that anything was up.
NO, LiPo, and Li ion batts are everywhere why worry about, I have had dozens of LiPo an LiOn powered devices
What about Li-On batteries though?
Hasn't changed for me either. But it has made me more wary of Samsung devices. There no way I'm getting the s8 (or note 8) no matter how great the features are. They can't even figure out what's wrong with the note 7.. Who's to say their upcoming phones won't have the same problem.
The only thing that worries me is that it may become even harder to get batteries and such shipped to Hawaii, it's horrible.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk
I am curious as to how is everyone's battery life been? I pulled my phone off the charger at 7:05 am and currently sitting at 73% at 9:06am.
is the screenshot for on screen time missing?
Is it me or is there no setting to automatically turn on battery saver mode when the device gets down to a certain percentage?? [emoji848]
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
Strangely....the battery drained faster than it charged for me. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but Quick Charge on this phone isn't as fast as other phones.
I can say that using it while charging DEFINITELY affected the charging speed more than my last phone. It does not charge quickly while charging AT ALL.
AarSyl said:
Strangely....the battery drained faster than it charged for me. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but Quick Charge on this phone isn't as fast as other phones.
I can say that using it while charging DEFINITELY affected the charging speed more than my last phone. It does not charge quickly while charging AT ALL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea
clninja said:
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I change phones too often to care.
my battery life has been pretty good considering the specs.
4 hrs of SOT easy. more like 5.5 some days.
clninja said:
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.
holz75 said:
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
charging and discharging at the same time causes heat, which does destroy the battery, unless you have a unit with something like oneplus dash charging that heats up at the wall instead of at the battery
WaxysDargle said:
charging and discharging at the same time causes heat, which does destroy the battery, unless you have a unit with something like oneplus dash charging that heats up at the wall instead of at the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a MYTH. Do a simple Google Search. And if it did destroy the battery, we'd definitely be hearing of a battery shortage simply from everyone driving around using their phones for GPS while plugged in.
holz75 said:
It's a MYTH. Do a simple Google Search. And if it did destroy the battery, we'd definitely be hearing of a battery shortage simply from everyone driving around using their phones for GPS while plugged in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm my search turned up mixed results. some people think it'll make your battery explode, and that has been debunked. it is still debated (from what i can see) if doing heavy tasks (like gaming) while charging will degrade battery.
WaxysDargle said:
hmmm my search turned up mixed results. some people think it'll make your battery explode, and that has been debunked. it is still debated (from what i can see) if doing heavy tasks (like gaming) while charging will degrade battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.
holz75 said:
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm with you on that. it appears to me that heavy discharging while charging could accelerate degradation. that's what is in question in my mind.
Not bad! [emoji851]
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
Didn't want to make a new thread, but whenever we get a new phone are we suppose to full discharge it and then full charge it when we first use it?
hungryfortech said:
Didn't want to make a new thread, but whenever we get a new phone are we suppose to full discharge it and then full charge it when we first use it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's an old "wise tale". I do it on every phone whether it is needed or not though. I actually do it twice. I take it to around 10% and back up to 100. I still fully charge it before I even use it. May be a waste, but for some reason, it gives me a certain "pleasure".
holz75 said:
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to redpond to his post as well. Using phone while charging in fact does nothing to the battery. That has been a long time myth disproven long time ago. You are correct, it does not harm the battery
taotechad said:
I was going to redpond to his post as well. Using phone while charging in fact does nothing to the battery. That has been a long time myth disproven long time ago. You are correct, it does not harm the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excessive heat destroys batteries. Charging creates heat. Using it while charging creates excessive heat.
Don't believe it and keep doing it if you want. Doesn't screw up anyones battery but yours so who cares
clninja said:
Excessive heat destroys batteries. Charging creates heat. Using it while charging creates excessive heat.
Don't believe it and keep doing it if you want. Doesn't screw up anyones battery but yours so who cares
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont have any heat issues, let alone excessive heat issues at any time!! Maybe dont use cheap crappy chargers. This myth has long been disproven. But go ahead and believe the fake news
holz75 said:
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm. We discuss 2 separate things here.
May you still use your phone when charging
Of course you may
Will it be charging as fast when its on and being used in contrast to being blocked?
Of course it will be charging very much slower
Those people in airports may either have very much cooler CPUs in their phones like MTKs, Snaps 660 or Apple A9s. They don't produce as much heat as SD820 or SD845 so shey can still keep battery cool and let it get charging., or they put their phones aside and let them get battery charged fast because its not charging as fast when being used. Like G7.
Using G7, especially gaming or watching Youtube on mobile cell produce too much heat and battery gets warm fast. So to prevent Note 7 style overheating and explosions both Samsung and LG makes speed of charging lowest in that case. Even that was stated by Samsung's advertisements when Galaxy S8 was introduced. You may search for them on Youtube. LG does the same, it become charging with 0.5A like form USB 2.0 port, lowest possible speed. It prevents battery from heating to avoid degrading and explosion. Turn screen off, put phone aside for half an hour and let it suck up juice
Hi, I'm currently experiencing some problems with my Redmi Note 8 Pro.
I've had my phone for less than a month, and it's starting to get issues with the battery.
The battery, whether I charge it with the original wall charger, or I use a computer to charge it, or o use an alternative wall charger (that is for slow charge), it can't get to 100%.
It gets stuck at 99% and says, full charge in 2 minutes, even though the 2 minutes have passed long time ago.
I haven't done a full battery drain, and I always try to use a slow charge charger.
I also haven't done a full cycle without using the phone, maybe that's the problem.
But I'm worried, and I need some help, because I got the phone (as I said) less than a month ago, I haven't even payed the first installment.
I'm still within the seller's warranty, but I need some advices to what can I do, because returning the phone to the seller, to make a change, is gonna cost me 15 to 20 days. And I don't have any other phone to use.
Please, if someone can give me some advice, or tell me what to do, it's completely welcome.
Thanks.
And by the way, I'm using the Global 128Gb version, if that helps.
Edit 29/01/2020: I did a full discharge, because I couldn't read the quotes earlier, and I didn't realize how big the problem could be. Now, the phone can't go over 79%.
I didn't expected this issue with my RN8P, but with other phones (cheap noname ones).
A discharge to around 5%, and a full charge without unplugging did the trick for me.
AnonyIsRight said:
Hi, I'm currently experiencing some problems with my Redmi Note 8 Pro.
I've had my month for less than a month, and it's starting to get issues with the battery.
The battery, whether I charge it with the original wall charger, or I use a computer to charge it, or o use an alternative wall charger (that is for slow charge), it can't get to 100%.
It gets stuck at 99% and says, full charge in 2 minutes, even though the 2 minutes have passed long time ago.
I haven't done a full battery drain, and I always try to use a slow charge charger.
I also haven't done a full cycle without using the phone, maybe that's the problem.
But I'm worried, and I need some help, because I got the phone (as I said) less than a month ago, I haven't even payed the first installment.
I'm still within the seller's warranty, but I need some advices to what can I do, because returning the phone to the seller, to make a change, is gonna cost me 15 to 20 days. And I don't have any other phone to use.
Please, if someone can give me some advice, or tell me what to do, it's completely welcome.
Thanks.
And by the way, I'm using the Global 128Gb version, if that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I cannot tell if its some HW related problem with your phone or battery but I am really wondering why you want to do full charges (and/or discharges)? It is known to wear battery way faster. Li-on or Li-po batteries do not have memory effects and it is known to be best to always keep them charge for example between 15-20% and 80-85% trying to never get bellow or above.
This phone has a pretty big battery, that normally should be enough to bring you through a day of normal use (if it does not you may want to check your hungry apps running in the bg) but maybe you are an heavy gamer or use your phone for some heavy usage stuff?
Even then, it would be best to do 2 quick 15 to 50-60% in about 30 mins with QC2 (18W original Wall charger) rather than one unique full charge.
Looking at what you said with slow charging you probably know all of that already, but the faster you charge the battery, even if same %, the faster it will discharge. As odd as it is, remains factual.
I dont know if you ever used an external amperemeter or similar to check what kind of current was actually going through your battery while charging, but if you do you will notice the first % goes way faster to charge than the last few %. The chip dealing with the battery charge, charges slower and slower toward the end because it could damage the battery, when on the opposite it is rather safe to quick charge the % in the middle.
Also you may want to check your alternative 'slow wall charger' to make sure it provides you with a steady voltage current (V). If it is fluctuating too much, it may damage your battery.
If you want to do further research about the subject, there is a note on the RN8PRO Telegram group explaining how to calibrate your battery by deleting some system files (root needed as far as I remember) and having some charges/discharges steps. Personally I have not done it because it requires to go to 100% and 0% a few times, and depleting a Li-ion/Li-po battery completely can damage it irreversibly. They are not meant to be discharged fully period. Now battery should not be completely drained when OS takes the phone off, that said we never know for sure since we cannot change that setting unlike on our windows laptops, but I dont want to take the risk.
When you are stuck to 99% it kind of looks to be the OS not being able to know if the battery is fully charged or not. In that state of things, have you tried to turn off the device without unplugging to see if the off-mode charging screen (the small battery screen with % when you turn your phone off) also remains at 99% or gets to 100% at some point? Because maybe all you need is to restart the phone to make OS aware the battery is fully charged. Could be a SW known/unknown issue/bug to be fixed with future updates for all I know.
But again, I don't think you should fully charge and/or discharge (if you do) your phone when you can avoid it.
Just my 2 cents.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
-=Fxs=- said:
I didn't expected this issue with my RN8P, but with other phones (cheap noname ones).
A discharge to around 5%, and a full charge without unplugging did the trick for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it, and... it got worse.
Now it can't go over 79%. :c
Thanks for trying to help anyways.
Muad.Dib said:
When I cannot tell if its some HW related problem with your phone or battery but I am really wondering why you want to do full charges (and/or discharges)? It is known to wear battery way faster. Li-on or Li-po batteries do not have memory effects and it is known to be best to always keep them charge for example between 15-20% and 80-85% trying to never get bellow or above.
This phone has a pretty big battery, that normally should be enough to bring you through a day of normal use (if it does not you may want to check your hungry apps running in the bg) but maybe you are an heavy gamer or use your phone for some heavy usage stuff?
Even then, it would be best to do 2 quick 15 to 50-60% in about 30 mins with QC2 (18W original Wall charger) rather than one unique full charge.
Looking at what you said with slow charging you probably know all of that already, but the faster you charge the battery, even if same %, the faster it will discharge. As odd as it is, remains factual.
I dont know if you ever used an external amperemeter or similar to check what kind of current was actually going through your battery while charging, but if you do you will notice the first % goes way faster to charge than the last few %. The chip dealing with the battery charge, charges slower and slower toward the end because it could damage the battery, when on the opposite it is rather safe to quick charge the % in the middle.
Also you may want to check your alternative 'slow wall charger' to make sure it provides you with a steady voltage current (V). If it is fluctuating too much, it may damage your battery.
If you want to do further research about the subject, there is a note on the RN8PRO Telegram group explaining how to calibrate your battery by deleting some system files (root needed as far as I remember) and having some charges/discharges steps. Personally I have not done it because it requires to go to 100% and 0% a few times, and depleting a Li-ion/Li-po battery completely can damage it irreversibly. They are not meant to be discharged fully period. Now battery should not be completely drained when OS takes the phone off, that said we never know for sure since we cannot change that setting unlike on our windows laptops, but I dont want to take the risk.
When you are stuck to 99% it kind of looks to be the OS not being able to know if the battery is fully charged or not. In that state of things, have you tried to turn off the device without unplugging to see if the off-mode charging screen (the small battery screen with % when you turn your phone off) also remains at 99% or gets to 100% at some point? Because maybe all you need is to restart the phone to make OS aware the battery is fully charged. Could be a SW known/unknown issue/bug to be fixed with future updates for all I know.
But again, I don't think you should fully charge and/or discharge (if you do) your phone when you can avoid it.
Just my 2 cents.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Muad.Dib,
Well, I wanted to do that full charge a/o discharge because I thought it would help with the issue (turns out, it didn't, it got worse as you said) but I didn't know the effects of this before, I always thought it wouldn't have any effect. I wish I could have read your reply before doing it (I was busy and couldn't read it).
The battery lasts for more than a day (or it did before), and I always try to keep it clean from battery draining apps, and I don't play games that much on the phone, less than an hour per day.
Do you recommend me to do those 2 charges to 60% in my state? (phone can't get over 79% now).
I haven't ever used an amperemeter because I don't have one, and neither I do know how to use one of those.
If you can lend me a hand and give me the link to join the Telegram Group, it would very helpful ??. But I don't want to root the phone yet, cause the seller's warranty stills intact.
And yes, I have tried it and the off-mode charging screen keeps showing me 99% (or kept, because now it keeps at 79%). And I also tried few restarts and it didn't fixed it. :c
And I'm sorry, I wish I could've avoided it, but I read your reply too late.
Thanks for trying to help me anyways.
PS. I will try to do a factory reset to see if the MIUI update has something to do with the issue (because the seller told me to do it, and I will do it, though I don't think it could solve the issue). Please, if you have any advice before I do it, you could help me a lot. ( I'll do it something around 11:00 AM in GMT -03:00)
AnonyIsRight said:
Hi Muad.Dib,
Well, I wanted to do that full charge a/o discharge because I thought it would help with the issue (turns out, it didn't, it got worse as you said) but I didn't know the effects of this before, I always thought it wouldn't have any effect. I wish I could have read your reply before doing it (I was busy and couldn't read it).
The battery lasts for more than a day (or it did before), and I always try to keep it clean from battery draining apps, and I don't play games that much on the phone, less than an hour per day.
Do you recommend me to do those 2 charges to 60% in my state? (phone can't get over 79% now).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey.
Very strange what is happening to you it's probably the first time I read about something like this.
Please note I am no battery expert either.
From own experience and friends, usually when you wear a battery (or it worn by itself after use or bad storage condition before being sold) it still goes up to 100% but does not retain original design capacity anymore. The usual behavior is like for example you still have like 30% left, and suddenly it drops to like 5% and you only have a few seconds to plug it in the charger.
When that's happens it is time to change battery.
In your case I really have no idea what could prevent HW/SW to reach 100%.
AnonyIsRight said:
I haven't ever used an amperemeter because I don't have one, and neither I do know how to use one of those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh those are easy to use as I meant some kind of small USB device that you plug in between your charger and your phone. They are cheap and you get them for like 10 bucks on Amazon. Readings might not be 100% accurate but they still give a decent idea as they display Voltage, Amperage and accumulated capacity/used current for device plugged.
AnonyIsRight said:
If you can lend me a hand and give me the link to join the Telegram Group, it would very helpful . But I don't want to root the phone yet, cause the seller's warranty stills intact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said I am nothing like an expert or anything so I am unsure what I can do to help. However I did check the telegram group and I confirm you the battery calibration thing is a rooted thing.
To find that group it is pretty easy just search for Redmi Note 8 Pro OFFICIAL from telegram and join the group.
You find quite a few things there.
AnonyIsRight said:
And yes, I have tried it and the off-mode charging screen keeps showing me 99% (or kept, because now it keeps at 79%). And I also tried few restarts and it didn't fixed it. :c
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally nothing you could have done, could have damaged the battery this way. Depleting it completely could have shorten its life or damage its overall capacity, but by all means there is no way in just a month you could have damaged the battery to this point. So either the OS is not reading things right (what version of OS and phone do you have - which region is your rom?) or either sensors or battery have a problem.
Since you still are under warranty period I would definitely get it replaced. Maybe you got a faulty batch or something. This happens.
AnonyIsRight said:
PS. I will try to do a factory reset to see if the MIUI update has something to do with the issue (because the seller told me to do it, and I will do it, though I don't think it could solve the issue). Please, if you have any advice before I do it, you could help me a lot. ( I'll do it something around 11:00 AM in GMT -03:00)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely cannot hurt to try.
If that does not work return the phone.
Just to know, based on your flag I would assume you are in Chile but I may be wrong. If I am not mistaking it is summer there and probably is pretty hot. I wonder if 'too hot' could damage the battery.
Hope this helps.
Regards,