Develop Bugs

Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*

Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
UPDATES:
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CASUALTY LIST (please PM me any casualties, the list seems to be growing in numbers rapidly)
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Battery Emitting "Smoke" : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=904577
Battery Failure during Trickle Charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=900412
SBC killed my battery: http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery.html
MIUI + Savage = dead battery http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10422140&postcount=9 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10432778&postcount=139
ANOTHER dead battery http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery-2.html#post517436
Battery loses charge after extended time with sbc kernel http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10431788&postcount=49
Another one bites the dust... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10457753&postcount=162
COUNT ME IN http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10469184&postcount=174
Current Count: 8
___________________________________________________________________
Various Dev Reactions:
Ziggy's editorial on WHY these kernels shouldn't exist and are dangerous (written before the new epidemic of dead batteries):http://www.ziggy471.com/2011/01/02/overcharging-batteries/
Netarchy's post explaining why he's REMOVING all SBC kernels from his page: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10421166&postcount=6185
___________________________________________________________________
THIS IS A CALL TO ALL ROM/KERNAL DEVELOPERS: Please don't include this feature in our favorite roms. I have been having to switch Kernels on my latest roms becuase I don't want to risk killing my battery (and that is a PAIN)
My $0.02:
I trust these developers on this site ALOT. What they have managed to do with the software is amazing. However, software is software. These trickle-charge kernels were amazing SOFTWARE-WISE. However, the effects of charges on batteries are not your specialty, so while it may be amazing that you all developed these kernels, there effect on the battery is not alright. I (sorry) trust an industry of battery/software engineers over some basement-developers who like pushing the limits (Pushing the limits is awesome, just not when it comes to batteries lol)

hmsheen10 said:
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, there is a reason why all the phone makers have them charge like that and there is also a reason why putting custom roms on your phone voids your warranty.
Remember hearing about all those ipod and lap top batteries that liked to blow up?
Edit: he's also forgetting that when the battery gets close to full the voltage starts changing less and less, to the point that it is nearly impossible to accurately tell how much battery you have when it is over 80% full
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

i knew it was too good to be true :\

yea i get amazing battery life with this trickle charging only when i leave it on charger for around 7+ hours. Sounds like i should stop using that then damn

Edit: didnt mean to quote anyone
From what I read the article didnt reveal any specifics to if and when it will damage a battery.The article seemed to suggest that because battery manufacturers changed how they implimented charging it means that trickle charging is bad. It does not have enough variables in this observation to come to any conclusion. If advancements have been made in the battery industry you could also come to the conlcusion that trickle charging is or would be ok.
I am not trying to go against the article or this thread but simply wondering if after a thorough evaluation of the battery capacity after say 3 months using trickle charging and one without trickle charging we give an conclusion.
If need be I will run my phone with trickle charging, will someone else volunteer there phone for research?

For the extra bump I get every day now Ill by a new battery for 15 bucks a little more often. Its worth it for me YMMV

Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.

I think that the makers of all these new kernels than should put up a warning specifically pertaining to the dangers of the kernel
Sent from my EVO

Quoting ms79723 :
Will this damage my battery?
This charging method doesnt damage the batteries at all. It shouldnt. Because our batteries dont even charge up to 4.2V without the tweak. They charge up to 4.2V the first charge, then drop all the way down to 4.08V or something and then does these weird short burst chargers to 4.1-4.125V. Thats why there's the rapid drop in the morning. Because your voltage is actually at 4.125V and that's not 100%. So with this tweak, the charger keeps charging until you're at 4.2V (or the maximum voltage your battery can get to) and then it trickle chargers while at that voltage. The charger itself never turns off. Thats not a bad thing. Because as you reach your actual voltage, the mA decreases. Which is why our phones will never be damaged. You ever want to know why its really easy to charge from 50-80% but the charge from 90-100% seems to take so long? Its because from 50% the mA going into the phone is in the 600's. Once it reaches 90%, the mA is around 150 and once it reaches 95% you're looking at 90mA. The phone when absolutely idle uses anywhere from 60-120mA, even when on the charger. So charging from 90% to 100% takes longer becaus the mA going into the phone isnt always higher than the mA you're losing. This is the same with charging past 100%. As you leave the phone on the charger with this tweak, you're mA will decrease from 50mA all the way down to 2mA overnight. But on the charger you're losing about 30-60mA already, so you'll never overcharge the battery, in best case scenarios, you'll just maintain the voltage of 4.2 or around 4.2V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Unfortunately, if you read their thread, they say they disagree that any harm is being done.
Personally, I am not a battery expert, though I do have some experience with them in the EV car field, but my understanding is these batteries will be damaged if continuously held at a full charge. That is why the manufacturers design the system to full charge, then discharge to approximately 90% and then charge again, continuously cycling the battery.
From what I have read and from talking to the guys who design Li-ion batteries, they say that prolonging the time that the battery is at full charge significantly reduces battery life. Over time it can also lead to overheating resulting in an unsafe battery. For those reasons, virtually all properly designed charging circuits for Li-ion batteries are set up to let the battery sit at full charge for the shortest time possible.
Vann's quote from the kernel thread proves my point, what it appears they are trying to do is hold the battery fully charged while it is on the charger. That might increase the amount of time you can run your phone in the short run. But in the long run it will kill the battery.

I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.

alekosy said:
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wtf.........?

Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.

wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....

dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreeeeeeeeeed!

wfrandy said:
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
Full charge is attained after the voltage threshold has been reached and the current has dropped to 3% of the rated current or has leveled off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I missing?

guys... this is from the article put up:
When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
The "trickle charge" kernels never go near 4.30v, mine stops at 4.19. Also, the temperature during the "trickle" overnight is very low. after 8 hours of "trickling" my battery was at 30 degrees C. Only time will tell if the battery life is SLIGHTLY shortened from this charging, but it is in NO WAY NEAR exploding, catching fire, blah blah blah. Stop scaring people, read the articles you post yourself and actually look at what is going on in these kernels. You may surprise yourself!
Now, if you cant get a replacement battery because you live on the moon and want your battery life to stay 3 years instead of 2 1/2, then it is your choice to not use these kernels, but dont scare others away just because you don't want to partake.

aph said:
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
wtf.........?
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Click to collapse
Jfree3000 said:
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.

alekosy said:
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???

sd2649 said:
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And try JuiceDefender with UltimateJuice, the 2nd app is a small fee paid app for donation, but it's very useful with the right kernel and rom for your liking. Trust on that, I think everyone would probably agree that this way would be the safest legit way.

Things You Should Know About Lithium Ion Battery

Too many people I’ve met have misconceptions, wrong understanding or simply no idea at all about how to maintain the batteries inside their new spanking new electronic gadgets. More often than not, it will be one of those nifty, super-slim lithium-ion variants. So I decided to write this little primer to help you, erm, I mean, your techno-phobic friends along.
Note that my recommendations are catered along the lines of practical convenience as well as pure battery maintenance facts alone. As with everything, there is often more than a way to skin a cat. I do try to explain my rationale behind my recommendations, so do try to read on before clobbering me on the head with your PhD in advanced materials science.
Tip #1: Lithium-ion batteries are limited by their life-spans
Found an e-bay offer for a lithium-ion battery pack for your ageing notebook or PDA at bargain prices? Or saw that battery pack for your gadget in its dusty sealed package at the corner store of the flea market? Before you jump and snap it up, be sure to first check the manufacturer date.
We all know that all batteries are limited by a finite number of charging “cycles”. However, it is a little publicized fact that the lifespan of lithium-ion batteries are also limited by their manufacture date.
Your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory
The fact is, your lithium-ion battery starts dying the moment it leaves the factory! Of course, the actual life-span of an unused lithium-ion battery can vary by a fair amount based on its internal charge as well as the external temperature. But suffice to say that you can expect to irreversibly lose 20% of a lithium-ion battery’s charge every year from its original date of manufacture.
PDA came with more than one spare battery? Take it out of its shrink-wrap and use it interchangeably – today. Thinking of buying a “spare” battery for use in future? Well, just save the money and buy it only when you are ready to use it.
Tip #2: Avoid allowing your device to discharge completely
Every wondered why your modern phone, PDA or iPod is able to cheerfully tell you that “Your battery is now exhausted” for several seconds on its brightly-lid LCD screen before switching off? The reason is simple; there is an artificial circuit that shuts off the device when the charge in the battery is too low.
This extraneous circuit is built to protect from the damage that could result if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low. If you still don’t get it: if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low, the battery can get irreversibly and permanently damaged. So since Lithium Ion has no “memory effect”, it is better to simply charge your portable device as and when you can or remember.
To set your mind at ease, a “charge cycle” means a single iteration of depleting followed by a re-charge until 100% of battery charge. If you consume 50% of your iPod’s battery on day 1, recharge to 100% at night, and do the same thing on day 2, then you would have just finished up one charge cycle of its battery life.
Constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would
Hence constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would. Avoid letting it sit on empty for too long; instead, keep it charged-up if you can.
Tip #3: Take the battery out of your notebook computer when connected to AC helps… not!
Well ok, actually, taking out the battery from your notebook computer might help, but the reason it does is not really what you think it is.
It is not because of over-charging as most people might believe. There are some really smart circuits monitoring your lithium ion battery (See reason #2 above), and these circuits also ensure that your precious lithium ion never gets overcharged.
However, if there is another killer of lithium ion batteries other than old-age, then it would be heat. Long term exposure of a lithium ion battery to temperatures higher than 40 degrees Celsius permanently reduces its total charge capacity by noticeable percentages chunks per year. Having said that, I would hazard that modern processor like the Centrino Duo runs quite coolly overall.
On the other hand, it is really painful to see someone plug their AC adapter to their laptop, carefully remove the battery and put it aside, then finally sit down and switch on their laptop. Then have someone trip over their AC adapter an hour into an unsaved document. Ouch.
Unless you are setting up the laptop at Wal-Mart or Carrefour to run practically 24/7 until its time to sell it off at “display unit” pricing, my recommendation would be to save yourself the trouble and just leave the battery in. Actually, I think the real motivation to take the battery out of shop display units is to prevent theft. Really, why make it so inconvenient for yourself when the battery will be literally unusable in a few years time.
Source: http://www.articlesbase.com/laptops...w-about-your-lithium-ion-battery-4346670.html
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NEW ADDON:
Some also claimed that we should minimize the duration of the battery remain at high voltage (e.g. 4.2v / 100%). This is spoil the battery because the corrosion activities are relatively high when the battery is in high voltage/ full charge.
Put it short, after fully charge your battery, please use it ASAP. It won't give birth little baby battery if you leave it there with full charge
One way of Storing Battery for Long time
If you were to store your battery for a long time, discharge it to 40%. Keep it in a dry and cool place.
For me, my engineer friend teach me a way to keep battery, and i have tried this myself for last few years.
I put the battery into the industrial grade vacuum bag and vacuum it (almost no air in the package), then i store it in my refrigerator (around 0 -3 Celsius). I do this if i want to keep the battery there to sit few months.
NOTE: Make sure it is really a vacuum bag. Else the air in the bag will become moist and may spoil your battery. Careful
<<< Please click on "Thanks" if you found this information helpful.>>
Please DO NOT reply to just to say thanks or Quote the main thread again when reply.
You're welcome to reply/post if you have any QUESTION/ SUGGESTION / COMMENT
We much appreciated your cooperation to make this thread CLEAN
Thanks for your understanding ​
Other Interesting Thread
Looking for specific tricks to save battery on your android devices?
Feel free to look at this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1189755
Speed up your GPS fixing speed like Thunder (99.9% works unless your hardware broke)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1239713
### for li-po battery http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187

brilliant post.

nice! Didnt know about the battery cycles!
Sent from my GT-i9100 with MIUI 1.7.8 - xda premium app

Cheers for the info. Knew a few things but still did Tip #3

thanks for tip #2.
have to change the habit.

thanx
everyday i learn something new. Brilliant post.

Thx for the lesson
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Original Here >> www . techatplay . com /?p=61
April 7th, 2007
Author: Paul Mah

This is a lot of very useful information. I can guarantee that I have always been misinformed on two out of three of these tips. Though really do hardly ever let my batteries discharge completely, and only remove my batter from my laptop when absolutely necessary. Still, nice to know so I know what not to do anymore!

Very good post and you are absolutely right about everything. Leaving the battery in a laptop for long periods of time with the computer being on generates an enormous amount of heat and kills cells within the battery. One thing I'd like to mention, however, is that you should always leave a lithium-ion based battery between 40-60% to have the longest battery life; 20-80% is a realistic range you should keep the battery in and is the next best thing. You never want to fully charge a battery, just like you should not let the battery die (cycling the battery would be something that should happen though if you are not getting the best of your battery life). Again, try not to have your battery passed 80% and not below 20%.
Another good tip is to not let your lithium-ion based devices (such as a GPS) in your car when it is hot out (or at all) because it will get hotter in your car than outside, your device's battery will be outside of its operating temperature and it will have cells that die out which will decrease the lifespan of your device's battery.

Reign255 said:
20-80% is a realistic range you should keep the battery in and is the next best thing. You never want to fully charge a battery, just like you should not let the battery die (cycling the battery would be something that should happen though if you are not getting the best of your battery life). Again, try not to have your battery passed 80% and not below 20%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the sharing guy. That means u never charge ur phone until full? u plug off middle of charging (when it about to reach 80%)? This is true, but i hardly implement it because normally i leave it charged overnight. But the best time i can do is to minimize the time my battery will remain at high percentage (90 - 100%).

Good advice but it's hard to be diligent, and like most people my phone charges overnight.

nice info mang.

nice info. many people didnt know this

Xenova said:
Thanks for the sharing guy. That means u never charge ur phone until full? u plug off middle of charging (when it about to reach 80%)? This is true, but i hardly implement it because normally i leave it charged overnight. But the best time i can do is to minimize the time my battery will remain at high percentage (90 - 100%).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's correct; I TRY not to charge my phone passed 80%, but that's obviously hard to do when you need your battery to last all day with use anyway. I try not to ever charge it overnight either.

Excellent reading, thank you for your time and effort in posting this.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

Reign255 said:
Very good post and you are absolutely right about everything. Leaving the battery in a laptop for long periods of time with the computer being on generates an enormous amount of heat and kills cells within the battery. One thing I'd like to mention, however, is that you should always leave a lithium-ion based battery between 40-60% to have the longest battery life; 20-80% is a realistic range you should keep the battery in and is the next best thing. You never want to fully charge a battery, just like you should not let the battery die (cycling the battery would be something that should happen though if you are not getting the best of your battery life). Again, try not to have your battery passed 80% and not below 20%.
Another good tip is to not let your lithium-ion based devices (such as a GPS) in your car when it is hot out (or at all) because it will get hotter in your car than outside, your device's battery will be outside of its operating temperature and it will have cells that die out which will decrease the lifespan of your device's battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good info. this is the first time i read this. where did you find this info? any reference links?

informative post & I assumed draining battery fully helped in longer battery life.

It actually seems like a rip-off afer reading thiss post XD

Thank you for the information.

galaxy nexus battery questions.

everyday when I use the galaxy nexus my routine is.
before I sleep, I plug my phone to my phone charger and I pull it out after I wake up. so its basically charging for about 5-7 hours on average.
is this decreasing my battery life? because ever since I had the nexus, I did this and I have never had battery life compared to what people post on xda despite trying out roms/kernels.
so that was my first question.
my second question is, is flashing like getting a new device? after I flash, is the battery life suppose to be bad?
I constantly flash almost every other day and I'm not sure if this is the reason my battery life is so bad.
am I suppose to use my phone for couple weeks before I get good battery life?
btw. I have a cdma galaxy nexus .thanks
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

1°) Is battery life reduced after long charging? This is a good question. I have no proof on that point but I think so. Continuing to keep current going through the battery once fully charged does not improve the battery capacity. The analysis I made on several smartphones shows that some of them stop the current while fully charged ( for example HTC touch Cruise) but most of them keep a charging current.
Samsung smartphones are difficult to analyse because they do not give any data on the current going through the battery
2°) Battery calibration will not improve the battery capacity: Once the battery capacity has been reduced, this is due to chemical changes in the battery, there are no way to repair it. What we could expect is to remove the battery shutdown artefact by adjusting internal parameters of the battery control circuit, so that the state of charge calculus will be more accurate again.
Some more details are given here: http://78michel.unblog.fr/htc-desire-battery-shutdown-analysis/ and in some other pages on this blog

7_michel said:
1°) Is battery life reduced after long charging? This is a good question. I have no proof on that point but I think so. Continuing to keep current going through the battery once fully charged does not improve the battery capacity. The analysis I made on several smartphones shows that some of them stop the current while fully charged ( for example HTC touch Cruise) but most of them keep a charging current.
Samsung smartphones are difficult to analyse because they do not give any data on the current going through the battery
2°) Battery calibration will not improve the battery capacity: Once the battery capacity has been reduced, this is due to chemical changes in the battery, there are no way to repair it. What we could expect is to remove the battery shutdown artefact by adjusting internal parameters of the battery control circuit, so that the state of charge calculus will be more accurate again.
Some more details are given here: http://78michel.unblog.fr/htc-desire-battery-shutdown-analysis/ and in some other pages on this blog
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the answer to questions1.
but I think I may have written question number 2 in a bad way which was not what I intended. I did not mean to ask if battery calibration increased battery life.
most people already know that it does not.
what I am asking is if battery life is suppose to be calibrated(?) right after you flash a new rom or kernel.
I asked this because I flash a lot and don't get good battery life. I'm not sure if its my device that is the problem or the constant flashing that causes this.
I have currently stopped flashing for 2 days now so I will report back if that was the problem.
anyways thank you for the reply
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

To answer question 2, you do not need to calibrate the battery and flashing roms does not consider your battery bad. The community here does have different opinions on calibration but it wasn't too long ago I read an article where google devs came out and told everyone this isn't really needed.
I have had a droid incredible and now the gnex, and have flashed numerous roms. I have never calibrated my battery and typically experience pretty good battery life AFTER I have played with the phone and set it up and stopped turning on the screen ever 2 minutes

To answer question #1:
The battery is a Lithium Ion battery. Lithium Ion batteries like to be charged. You should keep them above 10% as often as possible and ideally plugged when ever you can. These types of batteries last longer with a constant charge than with out, the full "Drains" kill Lithium Ion batteries faster and should only be done when you are calibrating the device (on the first charge or two).
The confusion comes from the old rechargeable Nickel Cadmium batteries which lasted longer if you did a full charge and discharge as these had a "memory".
As far as question #2 goes that is personal preference. I have flashed my GNex 6 or so times now and have had no issues when I didn't re-calibrate it.

x942 said:
To answer question #1:
The battery is a Lithium Ion battery. Lithium Ion batteries like to be charged. You should keep them above 10% as often as possible and ideally plugged when ever you can. These types of batteries last longer with a constant charge than with out, the full "Drains" kill Lithium Ion batteries faster and should only be done when you are calibrating the device (on the first charge or two).
The confusion comes from the old rechargeable Nickel Cadmium batteries which lasted longer if you did a full charge and discharge as these had a "memory".
As far as question #2 goes that is personal preference. I have flashed my GNex 6 or so times now and have had no issues when I didn't re-calibrate it.
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so are you saying that its good to keep my phone plugged in while I sleep?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

bluemoon1221 said:
so are you saying that its good to keep my phone plugged in while I sleep?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Because of the way it the chemical reaction works it is better to keep it charged (plugged in at night).

x942 said:
Yes. Because of the way it the chemical reaction works it is better to keep it charged (plugged in at night).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok thanks for the explanation
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

Li-ion batteries decreases in capacity over time NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. (even if you don't use it)This is the down side in exchange for easy maintenance and high energy density.
In short, just use it normal, charge it when it gets low and stop worrying about the battery life.

bluemoon1221 said:
what I am asking is if battery life is suppose to be calibrated(?) right after you flash a new rom or kernel.
I asked this because I flash a lot and don't get good battery life. I'm not sure if its my device that is the problem or the constant flashing that causes this.
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Click to collapse
I am not so clever with my English so I have not fully understood your 2nd question.
Flashing a new rom involve only the smartphone. Calibrating the battery is changing data stored inside the battery IC's memory.
These are two ''independant'' processes. The only relationship between them is that the some roms allows you to write in the battery memory and some others doesn't

What's average battery life you guys are getting with mod use ( variable term)?

x942 said:
To answer question #1:
The battery is a Lithium Ion battery. Lithium Ion batteries like to be charged. You should keep them above 10% as often as possible and ideally plugged when ever you can. These types of batteries last longer with a constant charge than with out, the full "Drains" kill Lithium Ion batteries faster and should only be done when you are calibrating the device (on the first charge or two).
The confusion comes from the old rechargeable Nickel Cadmium batteries which lasted longer if you did a full charge and discharge as these had a "memory".
As far as question #2 goes that is personal preference. I have flashed my GNex 6 or so times now and have had no issues when I didn't re-calibrate it.
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Click to collapse
remember 10% is not 10% displayed charge. 0% is about 25% as manufacturers take into consideration battery technologies when designing them. it is also quite dangerous to charge from 0-20% on a Lion battery as the chemical reaction has to be reactivated. and over charging can cause a fire.
All calibrating does is make the battery indicator more accurate, it doesn't increase the charge, the supplied chargers and phone tech will not allow overcharging, and the phone will not discharge a battery to below 25% as battery discharge below 25% will damage the cells.
if you are interested look into Lion charging in the RC world. we need balancing boards with controllers when charging multiple cells, and we have to put them in fire bag just in case. it will give you a greater understanding of how lion and charging works.

monkeypaws said:
What's average battery life you guys are getting with mod use ( variable term)?
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Click to collapse
Mine is pretty bad. I max out at 10 hours I'm trying Apex rom now hoping it will be better. Something tells me I need an extended battery.

7_michel said:
I am not so clever with my English so I have not fully understood your 2nd question.
Flashing a new rom involve only the smartphone. Calibrating the battery is changing data stored inside the battery IC's memory.
These are two ''independant'' processes. The only relationship between them is that the some roms allows you to write in the battery memory and some others doesn't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly right. And our nexus does not give us any access to the chip inside the battery, so there is no need to do any type of calibration with this phone. No roms can change this either due to the max17040 fuel gauge chip inside our batteries.

bluemoon1221 said:
what I am asking is if battery life is suppose to be calibrated(?) right after you flash a new rom or kernel.
I asked this because I flash a lot and don't get good battery life. I'm not sure if its my device that is the problem or the constant flashing that causes this.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got confused here. You are not calibrating the battery but how the OS interprets the battery data. The battery itself DOESN'T get calibrated. (And you cannot break a battery by flashing ROMs)
There's really nothing much you can do about the capacity of the battery itself as a normal user once it's been made in the factory.

monkeypaws said:
What's average battery life you guys are getting with mod use ( variable term)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my battery seems to be only capable of 2 hours of screen time despite using 3g/wifi, no nfc, no bluetooth, no sync, etc.
but I can still live with it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

diablous said:
remember 10% is not 10% displayed charge. 0% is about 25% as manufacturers take into consideration battery technologies when designing them. it is also quite dangerous to charge from 0-20% on a Lion battery as the chemical reaction has to be reactivated. and over charging can cause a fire.
All calibrating does is make the battery indicator more accurate, it doesn't increase the charge, the supplied chargers and phone tech will not allow overcharging, and the phone will not discharge a battery to below 25% as battery discharge below 25% will damage the cells.
if you are interested look into Lion charging in the RC world. we need balancing boards with controllers when charging multiple cells, and we have to put them in fire bag just in case. it will give you a greater understanding of how lion and charging works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that! Didn't know it displayed it differently. I only know how the chemical reaction works and such.

NP fella, thing is Lion is new tech and people still see it by the standards of older battery tech so it's taken for granted that 0% is 0%, and 100% is 100%. where this wouldn't be possible as too many issues would crop up. in RC racing we basically learn it inside out, as Battery types are better for different things. Endurance racing needs Ni-Cad as i prefers a sustained drain and will slow the car near the end of the charge, but keep going with reduced acceleration, while Ni-MH batteries are good, as they have better acceleration due to there properties, but suffer from being fine and suddenly suffering poor acceleration, you have no warning like the last lap. While Li-on are brilliant for one and off acceleration like sprints, or twisty tracks, but run at max power right til the end then just stop dead.

Is charging the battery constantly bad?

Hey everyone.
Just wanted to know if charging the tablet almost constantly is a bad thing. I use the tablet a lot every day, so when I'm at 60%, for example, I charge it again while I'm at lunch or doing something else, so that I can keep using the tablet later with full charge available again. I never let my tablet go down to 5%.
Is this bad for the battery in the long run?
Thanks.

Generally, it's best to not allow full cycle recharging...i.e. not fully charge or discharge, it's better for small charge cycles, like 40%<->90%
Some links to help garner some understanding:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2469261
Which provides these links:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.eetasia.com/STATIC/PDF/200806/EEOL_2008JUN16_POW_TA_01.pdf
http://macomp.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1607542.pdf

mdamaged said:
Generally, it's best to not allow full cycle recharging...i.e. not fully charge or discharge, it's better for small charge cycles, like 40%<->90%
Some links to help garner some understanding:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2469261
Which provides these links:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.eetasia.com/STATIC/PDF/200806/EEOL_2008JUN16_POW_TA_01.pdf
http://macomp.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1607542.pdf
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Click to collapse
That's right. At least for what I know. It says the same on Apple's website about batteries. :good:

So then I guess I'm doing it right, correct?
I charge from 60% to 100% or from 50% to 100% again. Maybe I should do it only up to 90% then.

Sensamic said:
So then I guess I'm doing it right, correct?
I charge from 60% to 100% or from 50% to 100% again. Maybe I should do it only up to 90% then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only charge to 100% when I am going to be away from a charger for a long time, otherwise I stop at 90%-ish (my battery app announces when it is at 90% and there are kernels which will stop the charge at what you specify), as the links above state, charging to 100% all the time will shorten the lifetime of your battery, this may or may not matter to someone, for example, if you buy a new tablet every year, or you're well-off financially, then you're probably not too concerned with how many years your battery lasts, in which case charging to 100% a lot won't really matter much, since you'll likely own a newer tablet by time the battery does die.
In short, it's up to you and what you want to get out of your battery's lifetime.

I am using the good old 100% and then use until near 0%. I have found that this way the battery lasts longer.
As I am writing i have 43% battery with 5:40h screen time. I am using Greenify btw.

mulperi said:
I am using the good old 100% and then use until near 0%. I have found that this way the battery lasts longer.
As I am writing i have 43% battery with 5:40h screen time. I am using Greenify btw.
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Click to collapse
There are two kinds of battery life. These recommendations are for battery longevity. How long until the battery begins to lose the ability to fully charge.
The article at battery university explains how charging works, and the best way to charge batteries. What you are doing is the opposite of that way. If you think you are going to have your tablet longer than a year, it's worth taking the time to read the articles linked.
There is noting particularly wrong with full charges every time, but there are 'righter' ways to charge.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Is there any kind of battery forming on new nexus7?
I mean i bought nexus 7 and straight from box i rooted,unlocked and installed custom kernel which forbids battery 2 fully charge over 92%...
Should i revert to stock and firstly fully charge my tablet then go to custom kernel or i am good at it right now ? Tnx
ps. (my nexus 7 was on 38% when i put it out of box)

aigaming said:
Is there any kind of battery forming on new nexus7?
I mean i bought nexus 7 and straight from box i rooted,unlocked and installed custom kernel which forbids battery 2 fully charge over 92%...
Should i revery to stock and firstly fully charge my tablet then go to custom kernel or i am good at it right now ? Tnx
ps. (my nexus 7 was on 38% when i put it out of box)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what I've read, you'd gain no benefit by reverting to stock and charging to 100%, it MAY or may not effect the internal battery calibration, but it does not affect the lifetime or anything.
Also, these kernels usually have a way for you to change the % at which it stops, usually by cat'ing or changing some value that the kernel reads, you could just cat/echo/change 92% to 100%, and let it charge to 100%, then change it back. YMMV.

mdamaged said:
Based on what I've read, you'd gain no benefit by reverting to stock and charging to 100%, it MAY or may not effect the internal battery calibration, but it does not affect the lifetime or anything.
Also, these kernels usually have a way for you to change the % at which it stops, usually by cat'ing or changing some value that the kernel reads, you could just cat/echo/change 92% to 100%, and let it charge to 100%, then change it back. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tnx m8

The worst thing you can do to lithium-ion batteries is let them discharge completely.
Not letting the lithium-ion batteries discharge more than 10% will increase the cycles by thousands we're talking going from 350 cycles to 4000.
So, ideally, you want to charge your batteries (of this type) after a 10% discharge but we all know that's impossible so the best thing you can do is to charge your tablet everytime you can. Even if it has much battery left.

I knew that allready but i didn't know that it is not good to charge battery to 100 till i came to nexus 7 forums I always charged all my devices to 100% and never had a problem with battery
Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk

aigaming said:
I knew that allready but i didn't know that it is not good to charge battery to 100 till i came to nexus 7 forums I always charged all my devices to 100% and never had a problem with battery
Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should charge to 100%, there is no problem with that.
On a perfect world you would want to charge everytime the battery hit 90%, this gives the best amount of charge cycles and life time.
However we all know that's not going to happen because the tablet is here to serve our needs and not the other way around so stick to charging it whenever you can.

Great Question!
First let me start off by saying to the person that started this thread that this was a really good question to ask!
Now if you are trying to get the most out of your battery then you could look into installing/flashing a custom kernel that could allow for undervolting which could in theory give your battery more life.
So you all are saying that the best thing to do is to charge up to 90% and never let it get down to less than 10%? Always start charging when the battery gets to like 40%?
One question i have for the Nexus 7 2013. Is it even possible to remove the battery for this tablet or does it void the warranty? Second has anyone purchased a spare battery (if possible) for their Nexus 7 2013? If you did could you post a link to where you got it and let us know how much you paid?...
Great question and thread!
-droidshadow

droidshadow said:
First let me start off by saying to the person that started this thread that this was a really good question to ask!
Now if you are trying to get the most out of your battery then you could look into installing/flashing a custom kernel that could allow for undervolting which could in theory give your battery more life.
So you all are saying that the best thing to do is to charge up to 90% and never let it get down to less than 10%? Always start charging when the battery gets to like 40%?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There has been speculation in the franco thread that undervolting could actually hurt battery charge life, due to the CPU having to work harder due to having less voltage, not sure if that has any merit or not.
The reasoning behind the not charging above 90%, and not allowing full-cycle charges is outlined much better in the links I posted than I could do here, also I would be just regurgitating information that is already there for the most part.
40% is just a number I pulled out of air, the best practice is to keep the charge delta as small as possible. So, let's say we charge the device to 90%, it is better to charge it when it hits 80% than it is to wait till it hits 70%, because a smaller charge delta has occurred, so charge often, but if you want the lifetime of your battery to be maximized (lifetime as in the way ezas explained it, i.e. "(...)battery longevity. How long until the battery begins to lose the ability to fully charge"), than try to not charge it to 100%.
Also, it has to be said, heat also affects the battery longevity, that is why I also recommend not charging while a device is in its case. And not leaving it sit on a Qi charger for too long, some cause more heat than others, but heat is a battery's enemy.
droidshadow said:
One question i have for the Nexus 7 2013. Is it even possible to remove the battery for this tablet or does it void the warranty? Second has anyone purchased a spare battery (if possible) for their Nexus 7 2013? If you did could you post a link to where you got it and let us know how much you paid?...
Great question and thread!
-droidshadow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would no doubt void your warranty. As for battery replacements, I have not yet found one, I'm not saying there isn't one to be found, but I have yet to find it, I figure the reason is because they are not yet in demand since the tablet is relatively new and demands for replacement batteries would be too low, obviously and eventually this will change.

droidshadow said:
First let me start off by saying to the person that started this thread that this was a really good question to ask!
Now if you are trying to get the most out of your battery then you could look into installing/flashing a custom kernel that could allow for undervolting which could in theory give your battery more life.
So you all are saying that the best thing to do is to charge up to 90% and never let it get down to less than 10%? Always start charging when the battery gets to like 40%?
One question i have for the Nexus 7 2013. Is it even possible to remove the battery for this tablet or does it void the warranty? Second has anyone purchased a spare battery (if possible) for their Nexus 7 2013? If you did could you post a link to where you got it and let us know how much you paid?...
Great question and thread!
-droidshadow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I said was that, theorically, in a perfect world, you want to charge your tablet when it starts losing charge and ideally never let it get below 90%. This is almost impossible because we use our tablet and we don't want to constantly be charging it so ideally you want to charge it whenever you can.

How is your battery life on the LG G7 ThinQ?

I am curious as to how is everyone's battery life been? I pulled my phone off the charger at 7:05 am and currently sitting at 73% at 9:06am.

is the screenshot for on screen time missing?

Is it me or is there no setting to automatically turn on battery saver mode when the device gets down to a certain percentage?? [emoji848]
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

Strangely....the battery drained faster than it charged for me. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but Quick Charge on this phone isn't as fast as other phones.
I can say that using it while charging DEFINITELY affected the charging speed more than my last phone. It does not charge quickly while charging AT ALL.

AarSyl said:
Strangely....the battery drained faster than it charged for me. Of course, that's an exaggeration, but Quick Charge on this phone isn't as fast as other phones.
I can say that using it while charging DEFINITELY affected the charging speed more than my last phone. It does not charge quickly while charging AT ALL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea

clninja said:
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I change phones too often to care.

my battery life has been pretty good considering the specs.
4 hrs of SOT easy. more like 5.5 some days.

clninja said:
Using it while charging will destroy your battery anyways. Not a good idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.

holz75 said:
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
charging and discharging at the same time causes heat, which does destroy the battery, unless you have a unit with something like oneplus dash charging that heats up at the wall instead of at the battery

WaxysDargle said:
charging and discharging at the same time causes heat, which does destroy the battery, unless you have a unit with something like oneplus dash charging that heats up at the wall instead of at the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a MYTH. Do a simple Google Search. And if it did destroy the battery, we'd definitely be hearing of a battery shortage simply from everyone driving around using their phones for GPS while plugged in.

holz75 said:
It's a MYTH. Do a simple Google Search. And if it did destroy the battery, we'd definitely be hearing of a battery shortage simply from everyone driving around using their phones for GPS while plugged in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm my search turned up mixed results. some people think it'll make your battery explode, and that has been debunked. it is still debated (from what i can see) if doing heavy tasks (like gaming) while charging will degrade battery.

WaxysDargle said:
hmmm my search turned up mixed results. some people think it'll make your battery explode, and that has been debunked. it is still debated (from what i can see) if doing heavy tasks (like gaming) while charging will degrade battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.

holz75 said:
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm with you on that. it appears to me that heavy discharging while charging could accelerate degradation. that's what is in question in my mind.

Not bad! [emoji851]
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

Didn't want to make a new thread, but whenever we get a new phone are we suppose to full discharge it and then full charge it when we first use it?

hungryfortech said:
Didn't want to make a new thread, but whenever we get a new phone are we suppose to full discharge it and then full charge it when we first use it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's an old "wise tale". I do it on every phone whether it is needed or not though. I actually do it twice. I take it to around 10% and back up to 100. I still fully charge it before I even use it. May be a waste, but for some reason, it gives me a certain "pleasure".

holz75 said:
Using your phone while it's charging does not destroy your battery. It may not charge as fast because you're obviously draining it at the same time, but it's perfectly fine to use the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to redpond to his post as well. Using phone while charging in fact does nothing to the battery. That has been a long time myth disproven long time ago. You are correct, it does not harm the battery

taotechad said:
I was going to redpond to his post as well. Using phone while charging in fact does nothing to the battery. That has been a long time myth disproven long time ago. You are correct, it does not harm the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excessive heat destroys batteries. Charging creates heat. Using it while charging creates excessive heat.
Don't believe it and keep doing it if you want. Doesn't screw up anyones battery but yours so who cares

clninja said:
Excessive heat destroys batteries. Charging creates heat. Using it while charging creates excessive heat.
Don't believe it and keep doing it if you want. Doesn't screw up anyones battery but yours so who cares
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont have any heat issues, let alone excessive heat issues at any time!! Maybe dont use cheap crappy chargers. This myth has long been disproven. But go ahead and believe the fake news

holz75 said:
Your battery simply starts to degrade once you start draining and recharging. There's a difference between degrade and destroy. If it really destroyed our batteries, phone companies and cell phone carriers would be telling everyone to absolutely 100% do not use your phone while charging. That's just silly. How many times do you walk through an airport and see people sitting on the ground by an outlet, so they can charge and use their phone? Same with laptops. The batteries in cell phones now are so much better than they were before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm. We discuss 2 separate things here.
May you still use your phone when charging
Of course you may
Will it be charging as fast when its on and being used in contrast to being blocked?
Of course it will be charging very much slower
Those people in airports may either have very much cooler CPUs in their phones like MTKs, Snaps 660 or Apple A9s. They don't produce as much heat as SD820 or SD845 so shey can still keep battery cool and let it get charging., or they put their phones aside and let them get battery charged fast because its not charging as fast when being used. Like G7.
Using G7, especially gaming or watching Youtube on mobile cell produce too much heat and battery gets warm fast. So to prevent Note 7 style overheating and explosions both Samsung and LG makes speed of charging lowest in that case. Even that was stated by Samsung's advertisements when Galaxy S8 was introduced. You may search for them on Youtube. LG does the same, it become charging with 0.5A like form USB 2.0 port, lowest possible speed. It prevents battery from heating to avoid degrading and explosion. Turn screen off, put phone aside for half an hour and let it suck up juice