Develop Bugs

[Q] 4.3 performance and battery life

I installed 4.3 last week which I now bitterly regret:
- memory footprint has almost doubled
- battery life has almost halved
- most applications no longer launch immediately, there is a black screen or a hang for several seconds before the apps actually launch
Is that to be expected or is there anything that can be done?
By the looks of it, Samsung may have expedited my move to another manufacturer.

LuckyLinUK said:
I installed 4.3 last week which I now bitterly regret:
- memory footprint has almost doubled
- battery life has almost halved
- most applications no longer launch immediately, there is a black screen or a hang for several seconds before the apps actually launch
Is that to be expected or is there anything that can be done?
By the looks of it, Samsung may have expedited my move to another manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be helpful if you further identified what ROM and build number you use.
Also do u have any mods installed e.g. Note 3 app package?
Don't let available RAM discourage you, Android is meant to use what's available to offer an improved user experience.
Overall, for me the upgrade to 4.3 from 4.1 is a large improvement. Assuming you're on stock 4.3 try a custom ROM. Try them all. That will keep you busy for a while

tweeny80 said:
Be helpful if you further identified what ROM and build number you use.
Also do u have any mods installed e.g. Note 3 app package?
Don't let available RAM discourage you, Android is meant to use what's available to offer an improved user experience.
Overall, for me the upgrade to 4.3 from 4.1 is a large improvement. Assuming you're on stock 4.3 try a custom ROM. Try them all. That will keep you busy for a while
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use stock, never rooted and updated via OTA. No mods and I did not install anything new after the update. The reason I am concerned about the memory footprint is that it correlates with the performance - it's never great, but anything beyond 1.5Gb and it almost becomes unusable.
While I appreciate the advice, I don't want to go down the route of a custom rom, it should work fine with what the manufacturer provides who does not provide a downgrade option.
I anticipated that Samsung would bungle this too, that's why I could kick myself for installing this.

LuckyLinUK said:
I use stock, never rooted and updated via OTA. No mods and I did not install anything new after the update. The reason I am concerned about the memory footprint is that it correlates with the performance - it's never great, but anything beyond 1.5Gb and it almost becomes unusable.
While I appreciate the advice, I don't want to go down the route of a custom rom, it should work fine with what the manufacturer provides who does not provide a downgrade option.
I anticipated that Samsung would bungle this too, that's why I could kick myself for installing this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, I'm picking up what you're laying down...
Keep in mind Samsung released sub par 4.3 builds to many users. Their later releases were vastly improved. Check your build number. Be aware that by rooting you can install a stock Rom that is the latest revision.
I get your stance on stock but given the reality, aren't you best served to take matters into your own hands?
sent from my mobile

tweeny80 said:
Yup, I'm picking up what you're laying down...
Keep in mind Samsung released sub par 4.3 builds to many users. Their later releases were vastly improved. Check your build number. Be aware that by rooting you can install a stock Rom that is the latest revision.
I get your stance on stock but given the reality, aren't you best served to take matters into your own hands?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers.
Well, OTA tells me that the latest update is installed so I presume that all their builds are bungled. I don't wish to void the warranty, or worse, brick the device with a custom ROM setup.
Installing and testing different roms until you find one that works is time consuming and I just want a working phone.
But you are right about taking matters into my own hands, I am going to the phone store tomorrow and check out what would suit me, Nexus perhaps or a Lumina.
As far as I am concerned, that was the first and last Samsung phone I have bought.

LuckyLinUK said:
Cheers.
Well, OTA tells me that the latest update is installed so I presume that all their builds are bungled. I don't wish to void the warranty, or worse, brick the device with a custom ROM setup.
Installing and testing different roms until you find one that works is time consuming and I just want a working phone.
But you are right about taking matters into my own hands, I am going to the phone store tomorrow and check out what would suit me, Nexus perhaps or a Lumina.
As far as I am concerned, that was the first and last Samsung phone I have bought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would strongly suggest the HTC One or its soon to come successor. Wonderfully polished device and I would argue it's the most fluid Android phone around. It's certainly the most beautiful construction wise. Similarly I much prefer the sense ui over the ghastly samsung touchwiz ui.
Alternatively try a factory reset of your current, although this will be time consuming and, quite frankly, a pain in the ass.

Do a factory reset.
Enviado desde mi GT-N7100 mediante Tapatalk

New N5X seems slow

So i have just upgraded from the Nexus 5 and very happy with most things, but the screen seems very slow to respond. The phone is obviously faster and runs very well, but just scrolling up and down lists, it seems like there is a lag between my finger and the picture. Is this normal? It feels like even the Nexus 5 is much more responsive.
I read a few bits about encryption slowing phones down if its not hardware supported. I had intended on disabling the encryption when i got it but soon found it that there is no easy way to do so. Whats the best procedure to do this and would it make any difference?
Thanks.

I had issue with lag, and even had Google send out a replacement because I thought I had a defective phone. It was unbearably slow, especially when using the camera. I finally broke down and rooted my phone and disabled the encryption. It is a night and day difference! I'm kicking myself for waiting so long. There is an all-in-one tool in the original development thread I used and then installed the Pure Nexus rom.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

caseyweed said:
I had issue with lag, and even had Google send out a replacement because I thought I had a defective phone. It was unbearably slow, especially when using the camera. I finally broke down and rooted my phone and disabled the encryption. It is a night and day difference! I'm kicking myself for waiting so long. There is an all-in-one tool in the original development thread I used and then installed the Pure Nexus rom.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thinking lag is a hit and miss because mine didn't lag at all un-rooted and encrypted. Granted that was only like 12 hours of being at work, so an hour usage.

I haven't had any lag on stock encrypted, I have had this phone for 3 weeks, and runs quick and responsive for me
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

What do you mean encrypted?
I am getting this phone tomorrow, I want to make the best out of it. Do I root it or do I use stock?

lol0 said:
What do you mean encrypted?
I am getting this phone tomorrow, I want to make the best out of it. Do I root it or do I use stock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device comes with its user storage encrypted out of the box, that way no one can obtain access to your files if you were to lose it. For example the FBI is trying to force Apple to decrypt an iphone for them right now which is bringing a lot of attention to the subject.
Anandtech has shown encryption can lower the storage speeds by about 30% on the 5x versus the LG G4 which uses the exact same NAND. However even at 30% reduced speed the NAND is still considerably faster than both the Nexus 6 and Nexus 5 and theoretically shouldn't cause any issues.
I have no slow downs with my device BTW, it is stock, not rooted, and encrypted as it was coming out of the box.

lol0 said:
What do you mean encrypted?
I am getting this phone tomorrow, I want to make the best out of it. Do I root it or do I use stock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bblzd said:
This device comes with its user storage encrypted out of the box, that way no one can obtain access to your files if you were to lose it. For example the FBI is trying to force Apple to decrypt an iphone for them right now which is bringing a lot of attention to the subject.
Anandtech has shown encryption can lower the storage speeds by about 30% on the 5x versus the LG G4 which uses the exact same NAND. However even at 30% reduced speed the NAND is still considerably faster than both the Nexus 6 and Nexus 5 and theoretically shouldn't cause any issues.
I have no slow downs with my device BTW, it is stock, not rooted, and encrypted as it was coming out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^ What he said. And definitely root and flash a custom ROM and kernel. Otherwise you'll be missing out on much of the glory there is in owning a Nexus device. You'll also have more customization options and things should be a bit faster as well.

Alcolawl said:
^^ What he said. And definitely root and flash a custom ROM and kernel. Otherwise you'll be missing out on much of the glory there is in owning a Nexus device. You'll also have more customization options and things should be a bit faster as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you suggest me what ROM?
I have the phone, its dope atm. It's also fast as heck!
I love the fingerprint scanner, so beautiful!

lol0 said:
Can you suggest me what ROM?
I have the phone, its dope atm. It's also fast as heck!
I love the fingerprint scanner, so beautiful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before you get settled in, I suggest you try different ROMS until you find one you like. Some are chock full of features, some are more performance minded. Depends on your tastes. I'm currently running Ubermallow ROM, which is in my signature. As for kernels, it's the same story. All have different features and abilities but I'm running Phasma Kernel which focuses on performance.
Experiment. That's the beauty of a Nexus device. There's something for everyone.

Alcolawl said:
Before you get settled in, I suggest you try different ROMS until you find one you like. Some are chock full of features, some are more performance minded. Depends on your tastes. I'm currently running Ubermallow ROM, which is in my signature. As for kernels, it's the same story. All have different features and abilities but I'm running Phasma Kernel which focuses on performance.
Experiment. That's the beauty of a Nexus device. There's something for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check them out!

D851 worth getting today?

Hey guys, I'm not a must have flagship device or a crazy spender when it comes to phones. I tend to lean towards features, and developer support when it comes to phones. I'm still using the LG Optimus G e970 that I bought 2 years ago, and I think it's time for a change. The D851 has everything I'm looking for at a decent price, but I'm worried now after reading so many people are having boot loops, wifi issues, etc. Would it be a bad decision to buy this phone since it seems like it's facing a bunch of issues due to aging.
Thanks guys!

I just bought one last week. Refurbished. So far, so good. Still early to judge but this phone is so fast and smooth.
I am running stock with Marshmallow 6.0. I usually root but really I have no need to right now.

I got a mint used one with zero lemon 9k mah battery for 120, it's stock 6.0.1 rooted and debloated and works fantastic.

Thanks guys! I made the purchase with an extra battery!

Vampir1c said:
Thanks guys! I made the purchase with an extra battery!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion, best phone for the price and features. I have had mine for nearly two years and it is still going strong. Just got a smart circle case with wireless charging and really happy with it. Developer support is also very good. I tried to run the Tmobile stock 6.0 but it was sluggish and Wifi calling could never connect. Using multirom, I can boot into LP for wifi calling if I need it. Fulmics is my main rom and I could not be happier with the features and performance.

bigcletus said:
In my opinion, best phone for the price and features. I have had mine for nearly two years and it is still going strong. Just got a smart circle case with wireless charging and really happy with it. Developer support is also very good. I tried to run the Tmobile stock 6.0 but it was sluggish and Wifi calling could never connect. Using multirom, I can boot into LP for wifi calling if I need it. Fulmics is my main rom and I could not be happier with the features and performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you tell me if bluetooth is working on Fulmics. Thanks

mpces said:
Could you tell me if bluetooth is working on Fulmics. Thanks
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Click to collapse
Bluetooth is working perfectly with the stock Fulmics kernel for me. I had tried a different kernel and it broke Bluetooth so I reverted back to avoid issues.

Everyone keeps talking about Fulmics.
May finally root my phone and try it!
How is the battery life?

My local store has one still BNIB collecting dust on the shelf, I didn't find out till after I got their last BNIB G4 and they didn't have any current price for it as corporate stopped updating that price list. I'm sort of thinking maybe I should have got it vs my G4 because of potential bootloop issues but my G4 was manufactured in April 2016 which is apparently after LG fixed the hardware problem. We'll see. I have half a mind to call them up tomorrow and see if I can get a current price on it.
I had a G3 on Verizon but didn't have it long enough to really make it shine. VZW installs so much freaking bloat that its kinda impossible to fairly judge a phone sometimes. Spec wise its honestly pretty close to the G4 although my G4 out of the box is the fastest phone I've had on an OEM rom and its not even close.

Definitely. I have had mine (bought it used) for 7 months now and have had no issues. I would recommend rooting and flashing a custom rom. Makes the phone so much better. It has the removable battery which is great, especially since the battery life is so-so. I can get through a whole day with it with moderate use so I guess it isn't that bad.

It's still a good phone, but look into the moto g4, double LTE speed capabilities. and double charging speed capabilities. Gotta keep up with the newest features
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA-Developers mobile app

LG G3 vs. G4 vs. G5
After watching dozens of YouTube videos making comparisons with these three phones, the G3 is still a great phone. The fact that you can buy one new very cheaply now is a plus. I am running Marshmallow now on mine with all of the latest updates. Stock 100%, but rooted and many of the apps frozen with Titanium Backup Pro. I NEVER have an issue with my phone. Battery life is excellent, I never drop calls, Wi-Fi calling works perfectly with my cable provider's router. The G4 and G5 look great but the "new improvements" are minimal at best. The newer models will cost you hundreds more, but the bells and whistles just are not there from what I have seen. An extra physical button or two would not sway me to upgrade this phone.

How did you guys root?

panamamike said:
How did you guys root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can root 30D with Kingroot to get temporary root. Then use this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/tmobile-lg-g3/development/stock-d851-30d-kdz-flashable-zips-imgs-t3367371

Pretty good.
Phone is pretty good. My main criticisms are the phones heat issue and rather dull screen. I haven't run custom ,don't know how much that helps.
Can anyone comment on what you would lose going custom ROM? Currently running stock Marshmallow 30D.

panamamike said:
Phone is pretty good. My main criticisms are the phones heat issue and rather dull screen. I haven't run custom ,don't know how much that helps.
Can anyone comment on what you would lose going custom ROM? Currently running stock Marshmallow 30D.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for heating issues -- only one thing will make the biggest difference: lowering the screen resolution to 1080p. That made the biggest difference in the world for me. But to do that, you would need to be on an AOSP rom.
Biggest thing you lose going custom is the camera quality. As for other things, with AOSP you lose the knock code to unlock feature (only feature from LG that I miss), and the LG apps if you actually like any of them. In general, you void your warranty by rooting, and you could run into some issues with some custom roms, Most common is lack of Bluetooth functionality, although many will have it working. It is a much greater experience than stock roms in my opinion and worth the loss. Worst comes to worst, and you go on a nice vacation where you need a good camera for pictures (i.e. hiking) then you could always restore your stock OS (backup is a must in TWRP once you are rooted) and use it for the vacation time, and go back to a custom rom once it is over

Andrewoidd said:
As for heating issues -- only one thing will make the biggest difference: lowering the screen resolution to 1080p. That made the biggest difference in the world for me. But to do that, you would need to be on an AOSP rom.
Biggest thing you lose going custom is the camera quality. As for other things, with AOSP you lose the knock code to unlock feature (only feature from LG that I miss), and the LG apps if you actually like any of them. In general, you void your warranty by rooting, and you could run into some issues with some custom roms, Most common is lack of Bluetooth functionality, although many will have it working. It is a much greater experience than stock roms in my opinion and worth the loss. Worst comes to worst, and you go on a nice vacation where you need a good camera for pictures (i.e. hiking) then you could always restore your stock OS (backup is a must in TWRP once you are rooted) and use it for the vacation time, and go back to a custom rom once it is over
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input on what's lost. I've read about the camera issue. Good to know that's the biggest difference.
Actually if you're running Marshmallow there is a game optimizer mode that will drop the screen resolution to 1080p when gaming on stock. This is where most of the heat issues occur. There's also an option to reduce the resolution to 1080p for all apps. Both options require root.
That being said, even at 1080p the phone gets hotter than it should for gaming. The only other option I've found is the hardware thermal paste mod. Not willing to try it yet.

panamamike said:
Thanks for the input on what's lost. I've read about the camera issue. Good to know that's the biggest difference.
Actually if you're running Marshmallow there is a game optimizer mode that will drop the screen resolution to 1080p when gaming on stock. This is where most of the heat issues occur. There's also an option to reduce the resolution to 1080p for all apps. Both options require root.
That being said, even at 1080p the phone gets hotter than it should for gaming. The only other option I've found is the hardware thermal paste mod. Not willing to try it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me the phone got hot even with just multitasking. I really don't game too much and it was heating up like crazy. 1080p fixed all those issues for me. I felt as though performance was slightly better on 1400p, contrary to popular belief. The antutu score also showed that as well. Still like 1080 better though

jmacguire said:
After watching dozens of YouTube videos making comparisons with these three phones, the G3 is still a great phone. The fact that you can buy one new very cheaply now is a plus. I am running Marshmallow now on mine with all of the latest updates. Stock 100%, but rooted and many of the apps frozen with Titanium Backup Pro. I NEVER have an issue with my phone. Battery life is excellent, I never drop calls, Wi-Fi calling works perfectly with my cable provider's router. The G4 and G5 look great but the "new improvements" are minimal at best. The newer models will cost you hundreds more, but the bells and whistles just are not there from what I have seen. An extra physical button or two would not sway me to upgrade this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the phone too, but I don't believe there is root yet for the latest 30E update, hoping that changes soon.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA-Developers mobile app

I have got to say my G3 is by far the best phone I've ever owned. I'm currently running Stock rooted 30D. I was thinking about flashing Fulmics ROM, but I read about losing of Bluetooth. I connect to my TV with HDMI Slimport adapter so I can play games on the big screen with my MOGA Power Pro gamepad. So losing Bluetooth is a deal breaker.
@aclegg2011 recently posted they're testing 30e Stock rooted.
Im still new user and can't yet post link to thread. Search Username and you should find it.

Make me feel good about my Moto Z Play purchase.

Hi all,
For about 8 years I've enjoyed having Android devices and modding them. I've been on ATT during most of that time and have gone with whatever flagship Samsung had at the time. My current device is a very dated GS5 and honestly from the locked bootloader to what I feel is disappointing hardware I decided a while ago that I would be trying a different manufacturer next. Right now ATT's android offerings are lacking to be generous. So I decided to buy the first off contract phone in a while an unlocked Moto Z Play.
I decided a long time ago that the best thing to do was purchase a flagship model no matter what but the lack of a headphone jack in the force and the battery capacity of the Play made me go this route. I don't do mobile games I just want a seamless experience from apps to browsing content heavy Internt pages.
If I do a total strip, unlock, root and flash of my Moto Z Play using a stable kernel and good ROM build will it make me feel good about my purchase?
Thanks in advance

Considering how the phone at stock is and what you want from it: "I just want a seamless experience from apps to browsing content heavy Internt pages", how is it not performing that?

Your post is very confusing. Other than it not being a "Flagship" phone, you offer no actual issues you are having with the z Play. Here's what I like about The Z Play. Like you, I only ever had Flagship Sammys. My last 2 Were Note 7. After I returned it I decided to get this phone to hold me over until the Note 8. This battery is insane. Yesterday I had almost 7 hours of SOT and the battery was at 50%, the screen brightness at 50% as well . Other than heavy gaming, there's no noticeable difference in the chip performance from the 820 in the Flagship phones. The stock system /UI takes a little bit to get used to if you had one of the more recent Samsung phones, which you haven't. The battery mod I got with this phone is great for a little extra juice on the rare occasions I need it. Overall, this is a solid phone with a great price tag.

Unless you have a particular need for a root-required feature (ad blocking options, certain apps) or you aren't willing to wait a little bit for Nougat, you probably will lose more than you gain by rooting and romming. Unlock kills your warranty, and depending on where you go ROM wise, you'll lose Android pay and anything else that requires safety net, unless you go one of the few routes that seem to support magisk.
Performance wise there doesn't appear to be much gain at this point, and if you go to a non stock based custom ROM, you may have camera issues, and you definitely lose Moto mod support.
The stock ROM on this phone is pretty clean, just includes the Moto stuff that is pretty functional for minimal overhead for most people, and you can always turn it off if you don't like it. Throwing in an SD card more than makes up for the small amount of extra storage you gain from a mild debloat.
Based on your post, I didn't see anything that indicates you would benefit from root and ROM. Keep it stock. It's awesome.

The MZP is a great performer and everything is smooth, except demanding 3d games (regular 3d games are just fine). Don't recommend messing with the firmware
Also, wait till you see how long it goes on a charge

It's the most powerful 32-bit phone ever.

Judging by the tone of some people I guess I stepped on some toes. I'm sorry if my post triggered you.
I don't even have the phone yet so yeah, maybe it'll be everything and more I could ever dream of in a device right out of the box. Who knows.
Thanks to the folks who provided some helpful info I very much appreciate it.

adam_l_c said:
Judging by the tone of some people I guess I stepped on some toes. I'm sorry if my post triggered you.
I don't even have the phone yet so yeah, maybe it'll be everything and more I could ever dream of in a device right out of the box. Who knows.
Thanks to the folks who provided some helpful info I very much appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will not be disappointed. This is the first phone I have where I don't really see the need to change anything. Buttery smooth, great battery out of the box and it has nougat already.
Maybe root to install adaway but i now use dns66 thanks to whoever recommend it to me a few days back and that too is gone.

I'm used to owning Nexus phones.
The Moto Z play combines raw Android along with Moto actions which are pretty great. It's a premium feel, build and design. I average between 10-14 hours SOT....The battery life is untouchable

vietkao said:
Maybe root to install adaway but i now use dns66 thanks to whoever recommend it to me a few days back and that too is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was me. Glad to hear it is working fine for you.
There are still two points which make rooting advantageous if you are not interested in modifying the system. First is, backup is difficult if you have no access to your own data stored by the apps. There is a way (adb), but it is not that convenient compared with Titanium backup. Second is, if you copy or move files, the timestamp can't be kept without root. You can't sort files by age once you move them, and syncing and revision control gets more difficult.
@adam-l-c I'd also say stripping should be done carefully if it is really seen as necessary. There often are services waiting for another service. If you only disable or remove one service and don't recognize the dependant, it may cause system load. You seem to have an idea what you're doing, so I wish you good luck and would be glad to hear what you find is really worth disabling. The device is working smooth as it is, at least for me (still using Marshmallow).

Believe it or not I gave my unlocked pixel XL to my wife and took her Moto z play. I needed proper ms exchange services that AOSP doesn't have. Nougat would be nice. The pixel camera is slightly better. The z is pretty heavy but built like a tank. Typical Moto. I don't notice the lower res screen or slower processor. I live in a world of good enough apparently.

tag68 said:
It was me. Glad to hear it is working fine for you.
There are still two points which make rooting advantageous if you are not interested in modifying the system. First is, backup is difficult if you have no access to your own data stored by the apps. There is a way (adb), but it is not that convenient compared with Titanium backup. Second is, if you copy or move files, the timestamp can't be kept without root. You can't sort files by age once you move them, and syncing and revision control gets more difficult.
@adam-l-c I'd also say stripping should be done carefully if it is really seen as necessary. There often are services waiting for another service. If you only disable or remove one service and don't recognize the dependant, it may cause system load. You seem to have an idea what you're doing, so I wish you good luck and would be glad to hear what you find is really worth disabling. The device is working smooth as it is, at least for me (still using Marshmallow).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ADB backup does not work on the lastest Moto phones, AFAICT. Ditto Helium which is just a front end for same. ADB disable apps quit working with one of our patches, December I think, VZW anyway.
TY for DNS66 mention.
To Op,
Moto pulled a whopper on this phone. While the screen brightness is better for daylight viewing on the sisters and they have VR and better gaming. Yet I would not trade to those.

adam_l_c said:
Judging by the tone of some people I guess I stepped on some toes.
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Click to collapse
You're not stepping on anyone's toes. Sounds like you're a bit sensitive.. People are just saying how good the phone is and I agree with them.
It's fast, battery life is damn good, and Moto actions are pretty awesome.

Nice performance
Awesome battery life
Gaming is also fine

Is there less development for the Pixel (than Nexus devices)?

I was surprised to notice that there is no official version of Lineage OS for the Pixel. Then looking around it just seems like there aren't that many ROMs for the Pixel. And I'm surprised to see that a year after release there still seem to be difficulties with root and using TWRP.
Am I right in perceiving that the Pixel has gotten less development interest than Nexus devices of the past? If so, why?
I ordered a Pixel 2 (to replace my Nexus 4--which has offical lineage support) and was assuming that it would get all the usual developer love that I've exeperienced in the past. Now I'm a bit worried that it will be difficult just to root it and do nandroid backups.
Thanks for any thoughts and observations.

I think they are having issues with the increased security and dual OS partitions. Will take some time.

scottjal said:
I think they are having issues with the increased security and dual OS partitions. Will take some time.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I saw that the dual partitions are an issue and the dm-verity check (don't quite understand what that is). But still, the Pixel has been out for a year. Nexus phones usually had tons of development by that point. I imagine if the devs were really into this phone there would be more interest. Especially the lack of official Lineage OS support, the most fundamental of all ROMs. There are unofficial versions of Lineage OS for the Pixel, so it works. I guess that's why I was starting to get the impression that the Pixel is not that popular with the devs (compared to past Nexus devices).

Price doesn't help either, I'm less likely to mess with a phone that costs a grand. Also prices it out of the hands of those that just want to tinker.

I also wonder how much baseline performance plays a role. The Pixel is really quite great out of the box, it's the first phone I've owned in recent times that I haven't had the desire to root, mod, rom, etc. custom roms are generally known to improve the end user experience, can't say that has been my experience on the Pixel and that's a big reason why I've decided stock is best for me.

mlin said:
I also wonder how much baseline performance plays a role. The Pixel is really quite great out of the box, it's the first phone I've owned in recent times that I haven't had the desire to root, mod, rom, etc. custom roms are generally known to improve the end user experience, can't say that has been my experience on the Pixel and that's a big reason why I've decided stock is best for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me ROMs have never been about performance, they are about features. They often have more privacy features and remove some of the pernicious behind the scenes stuff. There are more options for quick settings tiles. You can control the notification LED better. I don't want a total makeover; I'm happy with basically stock Android. But there are a lot of little things that are improvements to me. I guess this is why I especially like Lineage OS, since it is not a heavily modified OS. Also you sometimes get updates for security problems sooner (the once a month standard from Google is pretty lame--in Linux security patches are pushed out the day they are ready). As for rooting, it lets you use the iptables firewall in the Linux kernel and programs like adaway, as well as a root file manager (there are many times I find it useful to browse the system files); there is Titanium backup that is so much more powerful than any other backup tool that requires root; and a rooted device can also often get around issues with tethering. And having a custom recovery like TWRP allows nandroid backups, which have saved me from disaster so many times. So I think even on a phone like the Pixel, there's a lot to be gained from ROMs, rooting, minor mods, a custom recovery.
Anyway, I guess maybe it is just about the cost of the Pixel. Or perhaps the complexity of the dual partitions--are the Pixel phones the only ones that do this? I wonder what new phones get the most developer attention these days, if it's not the Pixels.

No, there's significantly less development, regardless of what a few users say (when I mentioned it a week ago after coming from a 6P, people were shocked when I said there's no development lol). I had to point out that 5 ROMs does not even compare to the 30 ROMs of the 6P.
At first, the pixel seemed like a downgrade to me. But after using it a week or so, it is a little smoother I got, and has better battery life, which is awesome. But those are about the only pros. Camera on mine is the same quality as the 6P, and I can't get used to the crappy downfiring speakers (last 2 devices had dual front facing).
All in all, it's an ok phone. It's about 2" taller than it should be, due to Google love affair with gigantic bezels. Haha. But sometimes using a bezeless phone one handed if tough, because your thumb can't reach the navbar.
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cb474 said:
For me ROMs have never been about performance, they are about features. They often have more privacy features and remove some of the pernicious behind the scenes stuff. There are more options for quick settings tiles. You can control the notification LED better. I don't want a total makeover; I'm happy with basically stock Android. But there are a lot of little things that are improvements to me. I guess this is why I especially like Lineage OS, since it is not a heavily modified OS. Also you sometimes get updates for security problems sooner (the once a month standard from Google is pretty lame--in Linux security patches are pushed out the day they are ready). As for rooting, it lets you use the iptables firewall in the Linux kernel and programs like adaway, as well as a root file manager (there are many times I find it useful to browse the system files); there is Titanium backup that is so much more powerful than any other backup tool that requires root; and a rooted device can also often get around issues with tethering. And having a custom recovery like TWRP allows nandroid backups, which have saved me from disaster so many times. So I think even on a phone like the Pixel, there's a lot to be gained from ROMs, rooting, minor mods, a custom recovery.
Anyway, I guess maybe it is just about the cost of the Pixel. Or perhaps the complexity of the dual partitions--are the Pixel phones the only ones that do this? I wonder what new phones get the most developer attention these days, if it's not the Pixels.
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While custom ROMs may not be about performance to you, I know that it is to others. I think there are a lot of variables at play, and I don't discount the out of the box experience as one of them. Take that custom ROMs are prone to decreased stability, especially with the Pixel and the argument for advantages of custom ROMs gets diminished fairly quickly. Unless of course you must have all the frivolous tweaks at the cost of stability and performance.

mlin said:
I also wonder how much baseline performance plays a role. The Pixel is really quite great out of the box, it's the first phone I've owned in recent times that I haven't had the desire to root, mod, rom, etc. custom roms are generally known to improve the end user experience, can't say that has been my experience on the Pixel and that's a big reason why I've decided stock is best for me.
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I agree, this phone is pretty hard to improve on. I'm missing all the flashing and tweaking but I'm coming to the conclusion that stock is the ticket. The stock firmware doesn't feel like a compromise anymore, it feels like it works best. With payment via phone and bank accounts on board, security is also an issue I've not worried about before but I guess I need to deal with.

mlin said:
While custom ROMs may not be about performance to you, I know that it is to others. I think there are a lot of variables at play, and I don't discount the out of the box experience as one of them. Take that custom ROMs are prone to decreased stability, especially with the Pixel and the argument for advantages of custom ROMs gets diminished fairly quickly. Unless of course you must have all the frivolous tweaks at the cost of stability and performance.
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Click to collapse
I didn't say no one cares about performance. In fact, I only said that there are a lot of things ROMs do other than performance, so even if that issue is less with a phone like the Pixel, it hardly negates the many and varied reasons that people like ROMs. So I was just suggesting that reducing it all to performance as the fundamental issue, I think, oversimplifies how varied and complicated the custom ROM community of users and devs is.
Anyway, my main question in the OP wasn't really why do people like or dislike custom ROMs, nor was it do they think they are unnecessary for the Pixel. My main question was, do people think my perception is correct that devs are less interested in the Pixel than in past Nexus phones?

Personally, I believe not all developers are created equal. The pixel design and new os introduced complexities beyond the abilities of the cut and paste developer. The truly talented developers are either still hard at work or have concluded, no not worth it.
Who knows?

There are many roms out there. There are just not on xda anymore.
Development is just so much harder on the pixel, so we need to wait till the first running custom rom is out there so the other devs can pick from there. It's already been working hard on it.
Development is not so high cause a dev need the device and not every dev has the money to buy a 1000 $ device every year.

Hopefully some developers fell into some pixels when Google started giving them out as replacements for 6Ps. We'll have to wait and see.
I still suck at G+. I can't get the hang of how to search it for roms, or even how to actually get the rom, when I know a developer has one on their page. I wish Google could have tried out the service before they released it, maybe they would have noticed how difficult it can be - or maybe it's just the developers and how they organize their page...who knows.
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