Hello guys,
a few days ago I bought the notes 8.0 wifi and after a few hours they already had administrator permissions.
I left the tablet that becomes exhausted and completely after a night in office, in the morning I started to make some changes: new rom and kernel immediately immediately!
I state that in Italy are the CEO of an interesting blog where we treat only Google Experience products novel that I'm not really, but ...
Turning now from the Nexus 7 (I still have it) the difference for the better I feel about this tablet but I have noticed, however, an excessive drain on the battery, then not doing anything so important: the hours of active screen only 3/4 albeit with wifi always on!
I tried to set all the Governor also present with heavy undervolt but I have not noticed noteworthy improvements ...
nb. Rom and kernel belong to @civato
Tell me your experience, thanks guys
I didn't understand all of your post, but wanted to share my experience:
Leaving the screen brightness on auto is essential to get reasonable battery life. On full brightness my tablet battery runs out way too fast. I do think this device has the shortest battery life of 7 other tablet/phone devices I have previously used for multiple full days (I cannot judge with less usage). But as long as you leave it on auto brightness most of the time, it has managed to get me through each business day since it was released.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using xda app-developers app
reply
thanks for your expertise ...
you are absolutely right but also the tablet in standby consumes a small percentage of the battery, that's not good, at least to me.
I'll talk with the developers for the right settings in the kernel ... hopefully
I found that I only use a few percent when its in stand by. Heres what I have my settings as and why
Brightness - either auto +5 or 50% switching between the 2 as required.
Sync off.
Power saving mode - on unless I want to play resource heavy games.
GPS off. only turn it on if an app specifically requires it (navfree)
Bluetooth off.
spen battery saving mode on. the spen layer uses charge so no point having it on unless i need it. if im using my 8pi pen i just leave the spen out a little, using it like a switch.
Other battery saving things.
Auto airplane mode - app that turns all the signals off when the screen is off.
trickster mod - under volted by 75 on the CPU accross the board (had a few crashes on 100). also undervolted the GPU and changed the ramping threasholds.
- govner set to lulzactiveq which is a modified interactive but also with the benefit of limiting the cpu when the screen is off.
- set ignore_nice_load to 1. so that nice to have processes are now no longer run. only the higher priority ones are.
greenify - set various apps to hibernate stopping them from taking the tablet out of sleep.
Think thats everything.
The primary settings you listed @hertsjoatmon, are standard on Android (and better on Samsung devices) say: I will use them for years.
The second part is more interesting, in fact undervolt to -75 they had not yet tested on this note 8 but if you tell me that the tension holds well-being.
Also on the GPU did you apply the undervolt?? mmmm
The Governor me most is satisfying, at least in terms of battery life - albeit with some lag micro - is "ondemand" (100 -> 1200) with frequency freeze (of 4 cores), thanks to kernel @civato :good:
Standby does not consume almost nothing but if you use the goodness of the screen, wifi and all notifications accesse lead to excessive battery consumption that even my Nexus 4 behaves this way (having then 2100m)
Piè_Nexus said:
The primary settings you listed @hertsjoatmon, are standard on Android (and better on Samsung devices) say: I will use them for years.
The second part is more interesting, in fact undervolt to -75 they had not yet tested on this note 8 but if you tell me that the tension holds well-being.
Also on the GPU did you apply the undervolt?? mmmm
The Governor me most is satisfying, at least in terms of battery life - albeit with some lag micro - is "ondemand" (100 -> 1200) with frequency freeze (of 4 cores), thanks to kernel @civato :good:
Standby does not consume almost nothing but if you use the goodness of the screen, wifi and all notifications accesse lead to excessive battery consumption that even my Nexus 4 behaves this way (having then 2100m)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my clock and voltage settings are discussed here... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2319953
I've not really updated any of my threads since coming back from holiday. I will do at some point but im pretty happy with my set up at the moment and have only been lurking on here rather than actively contributing these last few weeks.
the situation seems to have improved a bit, with cuts of volts everywhere: P
let's see if over time more kernels will do miracles ...
Hi Everyone,
Just wondering how your Nexus 7 runs under the new OS? I notice my device getting higher temperature than before, especially when playing some games. For example, with CPUTEMP and Smash Hit, CPU's temp was around 50-55C on Kitkat but now it is 65-75 on Lollipop.
Would be great if someone can run the same test and see if you get high temperature on this game.
Thanks
I can attest to this myself. I use the same app (on a N5 and N7) and I've noticed that the feel in the hand, while doing normal stuff with the same usage pattern, seemed hotter than normal. So I launch the CPUTEMP app and run the overlay, put the N7 to sleep for 15 minutes to idle. Temp starts around 36 C when first turning on the screen, then it ramps up to 44 - 50. Then while actually using the device, (e.g. surfing the web, email, basic stuff) the temps will go up to the 50s and 60s easily. If I leave it at rest on the homescreen after using the tablet, it idles around the low to mid 40s. While video chatting online with someone (hangouts / skype / etc) it will ramp up to 70s, then 80s, and finally cap out at 95 C. (5 degrees before S4Pro SoC maximum?) A video chat will last 2 - 2.5 hours on a fully charged battery, and the heavy SoC throttling affects the frame rate / responsiveness of both my front / back camera preview during vid chat and the entire OS. Downloading an app or two brings the temp 55 - 61, and then installing them (due to AoT compile) from 61 to 72.
The same goes for my N5 also on Lollipop, to a lesser degree, but nonetheless, it runs higher average temps than I noticed while running KitKat. Both devices appear to drain battery quicker on Lollipop, especially during use. That's not even considering LTE / mobile data use, since these days I'm here at home using WiFi all the time.
lpachuong said:
Hi Everyone,
Just wondering how your Nexus 7 runs under the new OS? I notice my device getting higher temperature than before, especially when playing some games. For example, with CPUTEMP and Smash Hit, CPU's temp was around 50-55C on Kitkat but now it is 65-75 on Lollipop.
Would be great if someone can run the same test and see if you get high temperature on this game.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. You are correct. Even i face the same issue. The device gets heated even on playing candy crush / angry birds which was not the case with kitkat 4.4.4.
Is there a way to reduce it? My phone slows to the pace of a sloth far too frequently and it seems correlated with temp.
I'm assuming that's the cause because when I look at the CPUs in CPUz the last two go down to 633MHz when things are getting slow. Also seems worse with a case but could be my confirmation bias. This is particularly apparent with the camera, Maps, and when coming out of doze.
Is there a more conclusive way to figure out what is causing my Nexus 5X's occasionally brutal performance?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Well, what exactly are you doing with your phone that's causing it to throttle itself? I think with a stock kernel the phone begins to throttle and eventually shut off the Big cluster at 36 or 37 degrees Celsius (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you flashed a custom kernel, most here have had that limit raised to 46C.
Last weekend I used my phone quite a bit for strenuous tasks including Navigation, Google Maps, lots and lots of pictures and 1080P video. The phone got noticeably warmer, but when I checked my kernel management app, the CPU temperature wasn't even close to the throttle temperature. Unless you're gaming or constantly benchmarking your phone this really shouldn't be a problem. Especially when coming out of Doze. The phone doesn't immediately enter Doze, it waits a while and there are factors that play into its decision to even enter doze in the first place (like laying on a flat surface for X amount of time). So when a phone is exiting Doze because of your input (turning the screen on) the CPU should be quite cool (maybe 22+ degrees). There's no thermal throttling there. The Big cluster shuts off when the screen is off for the sake of battery life, so maybe the lag that you're experiencing stems from the lack of the Big cluster being on for the first second or so when waking the phone back up.
I'll agree that the SD808 isn't a stellar chip; maybe even embarrassing. It's not blisteringly fast, but it certainly isn't slow. There are ways to speed up performance and improve battery life at the same time, which I'm sure you'd appreciate. Unfortunately you have not specified if you're running a custom ROM or kernel, so that's pretty much all the advice and information I can give you right now. But, if you're currently running stock, I'd highly recommend you unlock your bootloader and try out some of the custom (and more lightweight) ROMs that this community has to offer as well as some great kernels. That should make a noticeable difference right off the bat. Then you can dive into the nitty gritty details of tweaking and whatnot if you desire. Check out the links in my signature as a starting point. If you're looking for optimization and speed (like I do) then you'll be impressed.
Thanks for your reply.
I switched to ElementalX about a week ago and it may be a bit better now but it's hard to tell. I've also been using a spigen slim case, maybe that is causing heat to accumulate too.
I don't game. My usage is Maps, Facebook, Snapchat, camera, chrome, hangouts, Spotify, and textra.
I use greenify and amplify as well on xposed. Disabling xposed doesn't seem to make a difference.
Can you confirm that ElementalX throttles at 46C and stock at 36C?
I'm interested in your recommendations. When running geekbench it takes about 9 minutes for things to really slow down.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
If you search the ElementalX thread you can see that the developer, Flar2, was getting very frustrated with the thermal throttling on this device (others were too, as well). You can read through the progression and, eventually, the decision to apply a "thermal fix" or raise the thermal throttling limit. The threshold is 46C now. Confirmed. The stock thermal throttle threshold is 10 degrees less than that from what I've read. I also remember reading that Franco did a fair amount of research into the throttling issue and found that the CPU was capable of going over 50C with no issues (but aren't recommended), so the limit in place now by the ElementalX kernel is a safe one that shouldn't be exceeded. He probably didn't make it any higher so he wouldn't be found liable by any users if they overheat or damage their phones.
I have no experience with xposed and everytime there's a compatibility issue, hard reboots, etc. it's always because of Xposed. So.. Yeah.
I also do not use any tweaking apps that supposedly save battery or whatever. I let the operating system take care of that. I do use the L-Speed app (again, in my signature) to disable certain things like debug logs and what not to speed things up slightly. Again, I highly recommend trying Ubermallow and Phasma Kernel as those have been my choice, after trying many others, for some time now. Also, I'd look into the interactive governor tweaks after you've settled on a ROM and kernel combination that you like. That's where you can fine tune the way the CPU governor on the phone behaves and can really make a difference in battery life and fluidity of the device.
Lastly, a case can make a difference with cooling but I've never really found it to be an issue. Maybe I'm just not hard on my phone enough.
ryanwalexander said:
Is there a way to reduce it? My phone slows to the pace of a sloth far too frequently and it seems correlated with temp.
I'm assuming that's the cause because when I look at the CPUs in CPUz the last two go down to 633MHz when things are getting slow. Also seems worse with a case but could be my confirmation bias. This is particularly apparent with the camera, Maps, and when coming out of doze.
Is there a more conclusive way to figure out what is causing my Nexus 5X's occasionally brutal performance?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A member on the 6p forum came up with a hard mod that does this with a special thermal paste better then stock . Requires tearing apart the device though ...so its risky but his results looked promising
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Free mobile app
Google just agreed to take back my device so I only have a few days to try things and make my decision on whether to keep the phone or not.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses and suggestions.
Since I started using the phone outside of the case it actually seems much better.
Regarding the extreme slowness coming out of doze, it only occurs when in doze for a long time. Presumably because the phone tries to catch up on all the sync activity that's been paused for the last 12h or so.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I think I'll try your suggestions and remove greenify, amplify, and xposed to see if things improve. I do agree that the system should be managing those things.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Yeah, give it a few days. There are many ways to combat the throttling. Got my phone to 41C today while using it out in the sun. The Big cluster is limited to 633MHz at 36C and shut off at 41CC. The 46C built into the kernel is most likely for the LITTLE cluster to start getting throttled. Check the attached pics below.
Thanks. Btw what ROM and app is that?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
ryanwalexander said:
Thanks. Btw what ROM and app is that?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM and Kernel are in my signature. The app for managing the kernel is Elementalx Kernel Manager and the app to add CPU usage overlays and stuff is called Trepn Profiler.
Sounds like the opposite to me, the phone might be slow because of software on the device not playing nice which causes the SoC to work over time (normal computing + rogue app computing) and can cause the device to over heat and throttle.
There's no reason the device should be slow after a period of doze. That tells me the device is having software caused slowdowns that are not related to thermal throttling.
It takes roughly 12 minutes of 100% sustained load (only synthetic benchmarks) to throttle the 2x A57 cluster, and I've never seen the 4x A53 cluster throttle under any conditions including hours of heavy gaming they stay at 1.4Ghz at all times.
bblzd said:
Sounds like the opposite to me, the phone might be slow because of software on the device not playing nice which causes the SoC to work over time (normal computing + rogue app computing) and can cause the device to over heat and throttle.
There's no reason the device should be slow after a period of doze. That tells me the device is having software caused slowdowns that are not related to thermal throttling.
It takes roughly 12 minutes of 100% sustained load (only synthetic benchmarks) to throttle the 2x A57 cluster, and I've never seen the 4x A53 cluster throttle under any conditions including hours of heavy gaming they stay at 1.4Ghz at all times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yesterday I was using GPS to drive and Spotify was streaming. The phone got really hot and unresponsive and Spotify began to stutter. Was unable to even launch textra to text someone.
This of course only started maybe 10m into the drive. The phone is fine while cold.
Maybe I have a defective device but my benchmark stress tests give similar results to other people.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
ryanwalexander said:
Yesterday I was using GPS to drive and Spotify was streaming. The phone got really hot and unresponsive and Spotify began to stutter. Was unable to even launch textra to text someone.
This of course only started maybe 10m into the drive. The phone is fine while cold.
Maybe I have a defective device but my benchmark stress tests give similar results to other people.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is consistent with my experience. GPS and spotify (actually almost any app used concurrently with spotify) will cause the phone to have horrible lag.
also, don't text and drive
Interestingly, today when the phone was on battery saver it seemed much faster. Maybe more throttling could help things more than less?
Of course not exactly faster, but more consistent and no unbearable lagging.
Yesterday I flashed the stock firmware files other than user data. Unfortunately I lost root and it seems like I now need to reformat data to get TWRP going again but until then I'm fully stock. Does anyone know a way around that?
I haven't done enough testing to be sure but things seem to be running more smoothly for now than they did with root and ElementalX 1.06. However just writing this i can feel the phone heating up and becoming less responsive. The bottom 2 cores are offline with SoC at 36C and CPU at 56C when I switch to devcheck to check. Other 4 cores at 1440MHz.
ideaman924 said:
I've been having issues with thermal as well. Installed ElementalX along with the governer tweaks GhostPepper profile. When charging (this makes the device really hot) music begins to stutter, coming out of Viper4Android.
When not charging, slow accumulation of heat makes music stutter, same software used. Go figure. Maybe V4A is too demanding on the 808 chip, but I fear if this doesn't cut it, then I'll have to switch phones the next chance I get.
Oddly, this happens when screen is off - the music stutterings. I've thought about Doze and battery saving apps, and have disabled Doze for V4A through the battery optimize pane.
The phone constantly loses battery, around 2~5% an hour, I know thats not too much but my previous phone lost about 1% every three hours. This was a Note 3 Neo by the way. Installing Xposed and Amplify, Greenify and PowerNap should help, but I've had stability issues when using xposed. Maybe later.
Oh, and one last thing. My phone's thermal limit is set to 55 degrees Celsius, but it still feels like it throttles at around 39 or so. Maybe EX Kernel Manager isn't saving the changes, but either way... It throttles too much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That could be because of the custom software and CPU tweaks or your V4A installation. Using those settings always has the potential to cause issues and I would troubleshoot there first.
Minimum CPU performance with stock settings is 4x A53 cores at 1.44Ghz which is still fast. If you've ever use one of the more recent Moto G devices you'd know it doesn't stutter playing music when it's cold and neither does this device when it's hot.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using XDA-Developers mobile app
Setting the throttling temp limit to high will decrease performance, see here for details:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x/general/thermal-throttling-temp-performance-test-t3388559
Alcolawl said:
Yeah, give it a few days. There are many ways to combat the throttling. Got my phone to 41C today while using it out in the sun. The Big cluster is limited to 633MHz at 36C and shut off at 41CC. The 46C built into the kernel is most likely for the LITTLE cluster to start getting throttled. Check the attached pics below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this based on battery temperature or cpu temperature?
leo.best1398 said:
Is this based on battery temperature or cpu temperature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CPU temperature but I beleive the phone also has ways of combating high battery temps as well.
Alcolawl said:
CPU temperature but I beleive the phone also has ways of combating high battery temps as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If its cpu temp then no wonder it's always throttling the cpu is nearly always above 40°c.
What do you mean ''combating''?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
AFAIK Microsoft intended to fit an innovative kind of heat sink into their Lumia 950 and finally produced a standard design w/o particular cooling devices due to difficulties.
I have no clue how anything could be done. Except replacing the back cover with something thicker, offering room for heatsinks, fans, peltier elements or such.
But the Note should at least have thermal throttling and emergency shutdown features, like all current phones, which will throttle within the first half minute under full load.
franzli said:
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Thanks for your answers so far!
@lecorbusier yes, I suspect it has throttling, but in the interest of better running it would be nice to avoid throttling when possible. I'm not sure about the effect on battery life - throttling might be good in that a reduced frequency might need less energy, but running hot in the first place is probably bad for battery life.
In fact, part of my problem might stem from either the ROM or some apps I am running - Squid on temasek's CM13. Maybe I just never noticed this before, or didn't use squid so often, but I've noticed that the last couple of days CPU gets up to over 70°C at times with just some writing in squid. Not sure if this is normal, will probably post it in the CM13 thread. But my general idea/wish to improve cooling still stands independently of that.
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like an effective method (and I guess in a way one might call it a mod ). I'm thinking about something more portable, and hence passive though.
I will probably try opening up and having a look at the current cooling mechanism to see if adding a copper shim or a better silicone heat sink etc. might help things. Another consideration would be a modded case that contains some metal instead of plastic on the back side. That might help to take away some of the heat even though the plastic back of the device itself probably remains a poor heat conductor. Might be a complicated mod, but I'll see if I can come up with a way to do that. If/when I manage to get something done, or some new thoughts, I will advise here.
Any further input of course still very welcome!
Metal will disturb the various antennas.
A back cover replacement containing one or two fans, adding 1 to 2cms of thickness, and draining the battery with the fans while looking clumsy, thats the "best" solution I could imagine.
Or a back cover replacement containing one or two copper plates, cut and arranged in a way that the antennas aren't too handicapped. Probably you have to remove the various EMI shields to be able to establish direct contact between the chipset and the plates. That is, if the chips don't have contact with the shield plates.
I think this will be something never been done before, but probably after.
Like the battery mod for phones, where you solder one battery together with a second one and cut a hole in the back cover, that the now double-thick battery may fit. That's already been done.
Good point about the antennae, I hadn't thought about that! That also makes sense of the lack of metal cases (facepalm). Might still try modding a case with some metal in some spots at some points, but good to keep in mind how this might impact wifi and bluetooth.
My plan was to see if there'd be a chance to fit some slim copper plates in strategic position on top of the CPU inside the normal case. I'll have to open it up and see how much, if any, space there is - but will probably try this first on a Galaxy Tab S 8.4 that I rely on less for productivity (and that does actually get way to hot, to the point of self-shutdown). Whenever I find the time that is...
Will report when I get around to doing anything on the Note (and might open a topic at the Tab S forum in case I do try a mod there first).
I added a copper shim for cooling to my Galaxy Tab S (will put a more detailed post on that forum when I find some time), which seems to have helped to control temperatures somewhat better. I had two odd crashes, but had some before I did the mod, so am relatively confident that's a problem of the ROM rather than my mod.
Will probably try it on my Note as well soon and report here for anyone who might be interested.
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
franzli said:
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the update. I did some baseline checks for you, using the same StabilityTest app for consistancy purposes. I am also on temaseks build, cm13 more specifically. I run temaseks 12.1 build just as often as the cm13, so I will run the tests there as well. I revert back to my stock rooted kitkat rom about 1 or 2 days per week so I'll check the temps on that ROM as well.
So, at idle I'm a little warmer than you, hovering between 37C and 40C. Under normal use (like web browsing) I'm between 50C and no higher than 57C. Under stress (again, using same app) I was at 90C at 5 minutes and 91C after 10 minutes. So slightly warmer on low end, nearly identical on the big end. I have the samsung flip cover thats specifically made to fit the 2014 edition on mine, so that could account for my slightly warmer temps. Its worth noting that when gaming on a VERY cpu demanding game, I never reach anything above 78C. Its probably one of the top 10 most cpu demanding games on play store and BY FAR the most I ever demand from my CPU, consuming a whooping 1.5-2Gb of RAM at times.
I'll check the numbers on my other 2 normally used ROMs here in the next few hours and I'll post those results too :good:
On a side note, my galaxy s6 phone (completely stock, near new) averages nearly indentical cpu temps and after researching the matter on it, I found that those temps (on the s6) are what others are getting as well. So it seems that, generally speaking, samsungs might just run with warmer temperatures. I did see somewhere that 100C is kinda the 'YIKES!' point for them and that they start clocking down around that temp to prevent permanent damage
franzli said:
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've done some testing with a few different ROMs and I think you might be as susprised with the results as I am. First of all I need to correct myself in my last post. The initial testing I did was on temaseks unofficial CM12.1 build, not on the CM13 build. I have now tested on temaseks cm 12.1 and cm13 builds, my stock rooted & debloated 4.4.2 ROM and an old nandroid backup I have of hyperdrives 4.4.2 ROM. Heres what I found...
Temaseks CM13 build ran the hottest and was by far the most stressful on the processors and therefore ran the hottest. It consistantly kept the CPU clocked at near max (even when set to "ondemand"), whether needed or not (with no background process running) and would only reduce power when forced via CPU governor or was at the safety threshold for temperature, which I can now comfortably say is about 95C. Tablet was slightly warm to the touch at idle with a temperature of between 50C & 55C. Under moderate load temperature jumped very raidly to the mid 80C range and then would stay there pretty steadily. Under heavy load, CPU temp quickly peaked at 94C where while watching the CPU output, it was obvious the CPUs were going in & out of protection mode as they would drop to 1600MHz, then peak at 1900MHz, 1600MHz, 1900MHz & repeat this. I didnt let this go on for more than about 2 min before shutting down and allowing tablet to cool.
Next, I repeated tests on both touchwiz based kitkat ROMs I have backups for. 1 of them is stock, rooted, debloated and un"tweaked". The other is stock, rooted, debloated and tweaked. Both ran MUCH cooler, peaking at 80C & 82C. These were ocassional spikes and actually averaged around 75C when under heavy load. Now comes the good news...
I have identified a major contributor of excessive CPU temps. When testing on the touchwiz ROMs and observing CPU clocking in relation to CPU temps, I found that the governors are set lower in these touchwiz ROMs. They were a steady 1300MHz with the occasional 1600MHz spike. They averaged 55C to 63C under moderate load and when under heavy load never reached more than 82C.
So, I am now back on my long time daily driver, temaseks cm12. 1 build and I'm ditching the CM13 build entirely. At least for now. I have set my CPU governors down to 1300MHz and with heavy load for nearly 30 minutes (gaming) my CPU peaked at 85C. So my findings were that CM ROM has overclocked the CPUs excessively. They are set to 1900MHz, which has become obvious to me brings them right up to their temperature safety threshold, 95C. It seems Samsung clocked them at 1300MHz and allowed for occasional spikes above this point, keeping them at a maxium & slightly more reasonable 85C a full 10C cooler than their maximum safe operating temp.
I never expected I'd stumble on not only a source, but also that I've been utilizing the solution for months. I should add that governing the CPU lower has had absolutely no effect on performance. I regularly shut down 1 or 2 CPU cores as it is. I found that the tablet will run perfectly under normal use with only 2 cores. This reduces temperature and increases battery life. Sluthing can be so much fun sometimes, it was right in front of my face I just never put 2 & 2 together lol :good:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
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Click to collapse
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
thebadwrench said:
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
ollimi1 said:
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
thebadwrench said:
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
View attachment 3732472
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, good news!
I am positive surprised that kernel Adiutor is working, seems we have build-in UCI, which is needed, nice! Using KA on my OP2 since a long time but there is no custom kernel for p600 cm13 roms so I have not tried!
Will try it now!:good:
Thanks!!
thebadwrench said:
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I replaced the silicone heat pad on the CPU with a copper shim and thermal compound, added some small silicone pads around other components (all under the heat shields) and added a .5mm silicone heat pad on top of the main heat shield to enhance contact with the back plate. I do have some pictures, but I want to provide a proper write-up and currently don't have much time as I'm moving. Will hopefully find a chance to give a more detailed write-up in May - sorry for the delay, but full report is forthcoming!
As for the CM13 issues, @joshndroid apparently implemented some changes to it in the last build, so I might check that out, although I agree that CM12.1 is probably still the safer bet for a stable daily driver.
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Franzli,
The kernel seems odd to me!
The small A7 cluster is virtually unused and clocked only to 650MHz @ 1200ma !! Normal is 1.3GHz @ 1200ma for the small A7 cluster on 5420! Also a lot of warnings and errors in ksmg!
No idea whether the A7 ever used or permanently in idle mode, Lol!
Also all 4 big a15 cores are always online, what means no hotplug driver available!
I don't know if we will ever see a good kernel for CM13 because of the missing sources.
Although the kernel is running and mostly stable it is far from "good"!
Power consumption is almost doubled, problems with overheating and sometimes cpu is locked at max. speed and the only way to solve it is a reboot.
I don't remember the cm12.1 kernel but he was definately better in terms of battery runtimes and reliability.
BTW, I'll also mod the device cooling using bigger copper sheets instead of the perforated aluminum sheets, thermal-pads and thermal-grease when I start changing my battery and usb jack, what is definately neccessary in my case!
Maybe I will buy one of the small heatpipes used in S7 or so when I find them somewhere.
It is not difficult to adjust it if needed, so that it can replace the heatspreader.
Mabye it is needed to isolate the heatpipe from the mainboard but nothing what a piece of kapton tape not can do.
franzli said:
Hi all!
[...] But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures [...]
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? [...]
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Click to collapse
Hallo there
Well I just did the job. I have also made a short manual and would like to share it with you. But first some things about me and my tablet.
I bought a used galaxy note 10.1 2014 edition SM-P600 couple months ago. I was really disappointed about the device performance. Switching from stock android 5.1 to [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] did some improvements in performance. But since I am a very heavy web surfer I was still not satisfied with the performance. I have also tried [P600][Touchwiz] Marshmallow Rom 20170622 and went back to RR because I can play around with the CPU governors and all that deathy audiutor stuff. Between very nice work Exynos Team and all the other developers...
Soon I realized that the SM-P600 becomes fairly hot in the backside. I took a look at the ifixit pictures. There was no other way finding good resolution pictures of the inside.
I ended up installing cool tool app. Well is there any other good app for monitoring temps, clock and load in overly?
Well so I added frequency, load, battery temp and cpu temp. You need to add cpu temp manually. I guess it is Label ->
custom label -> enable- Then you have to go fine tuning -> custom label -> path:/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp. leace everything as it is. regex is (\d+)\d{3} and add postfix °C and prefix cpu:
.
So I went along and analysed heat and temps in the galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. Especially frequency-temp-ratio. And I can tell you this buddy is everything else than cool. Temps jump up so fast I can't tell you. Even some fast scrolling on ebay, facebook desktop web page in browser treated the Temperature to the hight 80s and soon the high 90s. I have also seen the things franzli mentioned before. Even light work put so much heat to the processor. Watching the frequency and temperature bounce was a pain. I could feel the pain that little Exynos 5420 must suffer of all the time.Throttling is the only ways this little buddy can survive To make it short I decided to do the cooling mod...
So lets see what I found on my journey ... I can tell you that's a big surprise
I opened the case very easily. You can find tons of videos on youtube or use ifixit.
Well I have to mention I am an electronics hardware engineer. So doing this stuff is nothing unique for me. And I have years of professional PCB manufacturing, repair experience.
Opening the case, adding some tape and this is what you get...
As you can see there is a little thermal pad applied to the aluminium shielding. And boooom there you are . Do you see all thet flux solder remains? How come samsung? Seriously?
This is the shielding close up with that thermal pad.
As you can see the FBGA package is covered with flux from soldering. So it is naturally, that the cooling in the galaxy is a pain. There can't bee any good heat flow.
So let's check that thermal pad.
woops that little buddy is kinda to small. I am sad to see this.
Well I cleaned the surface as good as I can with ethanol. After this I applied a new Thermal pad.
After that it looked like this.
Then I closed the shielding case and cleaned it.
So next comes the actual cooling mod. I added a big thermal pad.
I had to cut that little hook in the back plate. So that the 100mmx100mm copper layer will fit in shape.
And this is it done.
So what about the results :laugh:
The back plate fits perfectly. If you know there is a thin layer of copper you can feel it. But it is so less. I had no problem closing the case. Ahh yeah I had to tage it with double sided tape, so it is pressed down to the thermal. The back plate will do the rest pressure.
And really don't worry about the wifi interference. There is no worry. Because the copper layer is located on top of the bettery pack and shielding case. Why should there be any interference? I have tried. Reaching same wifi performance as always. No worries:good:
So what about heating. Well my galaxy note stays pretty cool.
I need to mention this is all mesured with the [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] I mentioned before.
I used interactive governor.
I reach in Antutu v6.2.7 about 57000 to 58000
In futuremark work 2.0 I get 4000
Here some pics
I am sorry for that high resolution pics. But I wanted best of (bad) quality. I used my redmi note 4 for taking pictures. If you can't read all in the pics, just open in new window.
There isn't any more throttling at all. It is hard to push to 85°C or above now. Just with synthetic GPU and CPU load on all four cores at once. And it takes a couple of minutes. But in real world you will never get it. With only load on one core my maximum is 69 to 72°C. The tablet fells pretty nice now. The warming in the back plate is reduced to a very large surface. So sometimes it fells as if your hands warm up the case.
Can you suggest me any ROm with a good overclocking potential? I have already tried this ROM. I really don't know why, but it keeps crashing all the time at 2GHz or 2.1 GHz. Even with no load at all. I guess the used kernel is bad.
Do you have any ROM suggestion for me.
If you have any quastions and things you want me to test write me.
Just wanted to share my experience with you. I didn't expect a dirty PCB, BGA and thermal pad like this. So what do you think about this.