Develop Bugs

Systemless root and systemless Xposed - Some questions

Hello,
at the moment I have a HTC 10 with normal root and xposed.
But I would like to have the option of installing OTA updates and I have some question:
- Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?
- Can I still flash a custom kernel and other mods in TWRP?
- What do I need for systemless root and systemless xposed?
- Are there any disadvantages?
And it would be awesome if someone could give me a full guide how to do this.
I would start with flashing a RUU, but what should I do after that?
Thanks in advance!

I can't say anything about systemless Xposed, but I've been wondering about it. Main thing I want to know is if it will play nice with Android Pay. Right now, I'd rather have Android Pay than Xposed, but I'd like both.
As for systemless root, yes, you can still flash custom kernels thru TWRP. I'm running @flar2's Elemental X and have run them both successfully on LeeDroid and Venom. Some mods may have to have some special prep if they're not baked into a rom, such as AdAway, to work properly with systemless root.
The disadvantages to systemless root, to this point have been you can't run Xposed on it (not sure how it works now), and root is broken on some poorly coded apps, like ES File Explorer.
The easiest way to install systemless root now is just to install a rom. Put TWRP on and pick a rom. Both LeeDroid and Viper have options for systemless root. You're up and working out of the box with nothing special to do.

Superguy said:
I can't say anything about systemless Xposed, but I've been wondering about it. Main thing I want to know is if it will play nice with Android Pay. Right now, I'd rather have Android Pay than Xposed, but I'd like both.
As for systemless root, yes, you can still flash custom kernels thru TWRP. I'm running @flar2's Elemental X and have run them both successfully on LeeDroid and Venom. Some mods may have to have some special prep if they're not baked into a rom, such as AdAway, to work properly with systemless root.
The disadvantages to systemless root, to this point have been you can't run Xposed on it (not sure how it works now), and root is broken on some poorly coded apps, like ES File Explorer.
The easiest way to install systemless root now is just to install a rom. Put TWRP on and pick a rom. Both LeeDroid and Viper have options for systemless root. You're up and working out of the box with nothing special to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/unofficial-systemless-xposed-t3388268
That's the reason why I'm asking - OTA is working, but Android Pay not (for me it doesn't matter. I never used android pay).
But I want to stay on Stock ROM, no Custom ROMs. I just want the ability to download and install OTA updates.
Edit: Well, I see that I still need stock recovery for OTA updates. It doesn't make sense to install systemless root, because I have stock system-image backup and stock recovery.
Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?

Maik268 said:
Have a look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/xposed/unofficial-systemless-xposed-t3388268
That's the reason why I'm asking - OTA is working, but Android Pay not (for me it doesn't matter. I never used android pay).
But I want to stay on Stock ROM, no Custom ROMs. I just want the ability to download and install OTA updates.
Edit: Well, I see that I still need stock recovery for OTA updates. It doesn't make sense to install systemless root, because I have stock system-image backup and stock recovery.
Is there any advantage between system and systemless root except OTA/Android Pay? Or is it still better to use system root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in the same position, just got the phone and want to install systemless root, systemless xposed and systemless Adaway... Mainly the reason I want this is because I dont want to s-off (you cant flash newer firmwares that come with updates) or I dont want to restore system and performing update after that... I just want stock rom with elementalx and those xposed goodies I want it so that when I get a notification about update, I dont need to backup anything, flash anything, just install update regularly like all normal people BUT still after update have root and xposed
I think its possible, but I have to do a little research before I get on with it.. Now first step is unlock bootloader

CrazyCypher said:
I am in the same position, just got the phone and want to install systemless root, systemless xposed and systemless Adaway... Mainly the reason I want this is because I dont want to s-off (you cant flash newer firmwares that come with updates) or I dont want to restore system and performing update after that... I just want stock rom with elementalx and those xposed goodies I want it so that when I get a notification about update, I dont need to backup anything, flash anything, just install update regularly like all normal people BUT still after update have root and xposed
I think its possible, but I have to do a little research before I get on with it.. Now first step is unlock bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with systemless root you have to restore stock recovery to use OTA updates
Well, I have a look at this next weekend when I have some more time.
Or I just try a custom ROM... :laugh:

Maik268 said:
Even with systemless root you have to restore stock recovery to use OTA updates
Well, I have a look at this next weekend when I have some more time.
Or I just try a custom ROM... :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but the amazing thing is that after you flash everything you want, you can immediately restore stock recovery and have stock recovery all the time after you have everything systemless
Then if you want to flash something you flash TWRP.. otherwise you just leave re-flashed stock recovery

CrazyCypher said:
Yes but the amazing thing is that after you flash everything you want, you can immediately restore stock recovery and have stock recovery all the time after you have everything systemless
Then if you want to flash something you flash TWRP.. otherwise you just leave re-flashed stock recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, I will receive my HTC 10 on Friday, and I all I want is to root and install Xposed Framework (A kernel would be nice too, but it's not a must) but I do want to receive OTA's and not having to flash the Rom each time that I want to update...
So if I root my phone Systemless, will I be able to Install Xposed (and a kernel) so when I receive an OTA, I just flash the stock kernel and install the update, then flash twrp again, without losing root or my data?
If so, how do I systemless root?
Thanks! :good:

Update SuperSU

@rbox Hey I keep getting notices that Su binary needs updating. Should I flash latest update via recovery?
I thought i saw mention of a fix for this but I can't seem to locate it again.

nujackk said:
@rbox Hey I keep getting notices that Su binary needs updating. Should I flash latest update via recovery?
I thought i saw mention of a fix for this but I can't seem to locate it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just dismiss the notification.

rbox said:
Just dismiss the notification.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been doing that, just wondering if i can/should update ? Will It cause problems if i flash latest version?

got the same idea: just flash super su 2.79 sr3 should work?

That's what I'm thinking, just wanting rbox to confirm it shouldn't hose anything. I know some roms on phones don't work with latest versions. And since he is using such an old version, I'm think that might be the case here

Hmm i think i will try it next time. Create a backup and flash supersu.

Spillunke said:
Hmm i think i will try it next time. Create a backup and flash supersu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flashing/updating SuperSU is not working and you will lose root

Since SuperSU is now a system program. I think doing fresh installs are the most secure way to test newer versions.
What I was planning to test before the XPosed APK fix came out was to have the latest PreRooted ROM & manually change the inners of the SuperSU folder to the latest. Not just the APK but the binaries or what ever is included. And then flash that modded PreRooted Rom.
XPosed APK fix: http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/themes-apps/protip-how-to-supersu-xposed-app-t3552590/page1
I asked @rbox about it & he said it should be fine. At worst I think you will end up with a non-rooted FireOS 5 install but as long as it doesn't update (make sure you are only messing with the latest FW version) & you can still get into TWRP. Then you can flash the latest original PreRooted ROM to get back your root.
I might still do some testing regarding this in the next few days. Might try the latest beta, final & a few other versions since v2.46.

Y314K said:
Since SuperSU is now a system program. I think doing fresh installs are the most secure way to test newer versions.
What I was planning to test before the XPosed APK fix came out was to have the latest PreRooted ROM & manually change the inners of the SuperSU folder to the latest. Not just the APK but the binaries or what ever is included. And then flash that modded PreRooted Rom.
XPosed APK fix: http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/themes-apps/protip-how-to-supersu-xposed-app-t3552590/page1
I asked @rbox about it & he said it should be fine. At worst I think you will end up with a non-rooted FireOS 5 install but as long as it doesn't update (make sure you are only messing with the latest FW version) & you can still get into TWRP. Then you can flash the latest original PreRooted ROM to get back your root.
I might still do some testing regarding this in the next few days. Might try the latest beta, final & a few other versions since v2.46.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck! I always ended up with non-root after trying to replace/update SuperSU on my FireTVs

rainman74 said:
Good luck! I always ended up with non-root after trying to replace/update SuperSU on my FireTVs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What FW where you on & what method did u try using ?

- manual clean up of apk installation first (system/apps & /data/app, but left /system/xbin/su)
- adb install eu.chainfire.supersu.vX.xx.apk (1.94, 1.97, 2.00, 2.4x,...)
- TWRP flash of UPDATE-SuperSU-vX.xx.zip (1.94, 1.97, 2.00, 2.4x,...)
- ...

rainman74 said:
- manual clean up of apk installation first (system/apps & /data/app, but left /system/xbin/su)
- adb install eu.chainfire.supersu.vX.xx.apk (1.94, 1.97, 2.00, 2.4x,...)
- TWRP flash of UPDATE-SuperSU-vX.xx.zip (1.94, 1.97, 2.00, 2.4x,...)
- ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although it is much more of a pain to do fresh installs. I think when dealing with root it should be more stable to mess with it that way.
One can also do the build.prop mod to stop updates if one wants to test older FW versions.

Y314K said:
Since SuperSU is now a system program. I think doing fresh installs are the most secure way to test newer versions.
What I was planning to test before the XPosed APK fix came out was to have the latest PreRooted ROM & manually change the inners of the SuperSU folder to the latest. Not just the APK but the binaries or what ever is included. And then flash that modded PreRooted Rom.
XPosed APK fix: http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/themes-apps/protip-how-to-supersu-xposed-app-t3552590/page1
I asked @rbox about it & he said it should be fine. At worst I think you will end up with a non-rooted FireOS 5 install but as long as it doesn't update (make sure you are only messing with the latest FW version) & you can still get into TWRP. Then you can flash the latest original PreRooted ROM to get back your root.
I might still do some testing regarding this in the next few days. Might try the latest beta, final & a few other versions since v2.46.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First thanks for the link to the xposed fix:good: And now that you mention it I don't know why i didn't think of that sooner, should be relatively easy to just replace the files in the zip with 7zip DUH. Only problem is I have everything all setup perfect.

Flash stock over rooted to get OTA

I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.

Technically you'll be updating your device by flashing the newest stock anyway. No need for OTAs. You can then re-root.

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, sounds doable

ABotelho23 said:
Technically you'll be updating your device by flashing the newest stock anyway. No need for OTAs. You can then re-root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not what i meant. Let's say I'm on rooted OB18. But i want to update it to OB19. all i have is OB18 stock firmware. So, can i flash OB18 over rooted OB18 and then update it to OB19 (ota). Then re-root.
The reason I'm asking this is i have a very limited data internet connection. So i can save GBs if this is doable.

XDRdaniel said:
Yes, sounds doable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Well.. I'm gonna try this out myself. Thanks! :highfive:

GTRanushka said:
Not what i meant. Let's say I'm on rooted OB18. But i want to update it to OB19. all i have is OB18 stock firmware. So, can i flash OB18 over rooted OB18 and then update it to OB19 (ota). Then re-root.
The reason I'm asking this is i have a very limited data internet connection. So i can save GBs if this is doable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plan to keep a copy of OB18 around? If so, then yea absolutely it should work. Root will either modify your system or your kernel depending on the method, which both get overwritten if you flash stock.
Issue you'll probably end up having in the future though is that if you always use OB18, when it comes time to install OB20, you'll be downgrading without a wipe, which I don't think is a great idea.

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you can't.
Because OTA will fail for "partition mismatching": the systemless root alters only but anyhow the /boot partition.
You must update with FOTA (Full OTAs), doesn't matter you're using stock or TWRP recovery.
The OxygenOS built-in updater should detects your system as modified and download only FOTAs.

Simone98RC said:
No you can't.
Because OTA will fail for "partition mismatching": the systemless root alters only but anyhow the /boot partition.
You must update with FOTA (Full OTAs), doesn't matter you're using stock or TWRP recovery.
The OxygenOS built-in updater should detects your system as modified and download only FOTAs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's say he has open beta 18, rooted and twrp installed, if he flashes ob18 again over it, this will get rid both of the root and twrp, resulting in an untouched system, therefore, ota after this will be possible. He can then flash back twrp and root the device

XDRdaniel said:
Let's say he has open beta 18, rooted and twrp installed, if he flashes ob18 again over it, this will get rid both of the root and twrp, resulting in an untouched system, therefore, ota after this will be possible. He can then flash back twrp and root the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.

Simone98RC said:
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be weird because I always had to flash magisk after a ota update..

GTRanushka said:
I wonder is it possible to flash stock unrooted OOS over rooted OOS in order to install small OTAs. After updates plan to root again. Does anyone know whether this is possible or not? And, any side effects could occur?
I search over internet and couldn't find any useful info about this.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to flash OTAS has to have stock rom but also recovery stock and bootloader blocked but not installed the OTAS otherwise it tells you that you have something modified and you have to download the complete rom. (That does not suit you)

ajnexus5 said:
In order to flash OTAS has to have stock rom but also recovery stock and bootloader blocked but not installed the OTAS otherwise it tells you that you have something modified and you have to download the complete rom. (That does not suit you)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need a locked bootloader for OTA just have to flash stock full ROM zip and stock recovery then you're good to go

Simone98RC said:
But practically speaking, it's crazy to unroot system only for OTA.
It would be more reliable to download FOTAs on rooted system.
Then, if @GTRanushka is running Magisk (MagiskSU) as root method, it could be working even after firmware update.
Because of its systemless nature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why i try to unroot and do OTAs is the much less download size compared to FOTAs.

Renosh said:
You don't need a locked bootloader for OTA just have to flash stock full ROM zip and stock recovery then you're good to go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it with the bootloader open and I did not think that something is not right that it has to download complete the rom.:

[Q]Root/OTA/TWRP doubt

I'm coming from nexus family and I know in and out regarding flashing rooms, rooting etc for nexus devices .. I got op5t few days back and I want to root it. But I need few info's.
1. If I root the phone, Can I flash the ota Update zip using twrp?
2. If I flash the update zip successfully using twrp, will I lose twrp and root?
I just want to know what are the steps to follow to update the Stock OS but also keeping the custom recovery and root after the update..
What are the Stock things I will lose after unlocking and rooting..

You will not lose stock features if you root. Both SafteyNet bypass options and root hide features exist with custom kernels and Magisk.
Taking OTA's will be a slight issue, though. Need to flash the Magisk uninstall zip first, take OTA (you will lose custom recovery), then re-flash custom recovery then flash Magisk again.

xocomaox said:
You will not lose stock features if you root. Both SafteyNet bypass options and root hide features exist with custom kernels and Magisk.
Taking OTA's will be a slight issue, though. Need to flash the Magisk uninstall zip first, take OTA (you will lose custom recovery), then re-flash custom recovery then flash Magisk again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought if you flashed the full zip and then Magisk right after, it would not only keep root, but TWRP as well?

xocomaox said:
You will not lose stock features if you root. Both SafteyNet bypass options and root hide features exist with custom kernels and Magisk.
Taking OTA's will be a slight issue, though. Need to flash the Magisk uninstall zip first, take OTA (you will lose custom recovery), then re-flash custom recovery then flash Magisk again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I need to use custom Kernal to Pass Safety net? Safety net fails in Stock kernel?

If you use Magisk, no. Magisk will hide the parameters that would reveal that your device has the bootloader unlocked.

rickysidhu_ said:
I thought if you flashed the full zip and then Magisk right after, it would not only keep root, but TWRP as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. it's not keeping root if you have to re-flash Magisk after!
You may get away with not having to flash Magisk uninstall zip, but you might as well since you'll be in recovery anyways.

You can flash stock rom using TWRP as mentioned in this thread https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/how-to/oneplus-5t-mirrors-official-oxygen-os-t3708099
Once the update is completed you will be back in stock recovery and you need to flash TWRP again
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74705391&postcount=32

It would be great if someone who is familiar with OnePlus products and updates could put together a defnitive, detailed post and or instructional sticky on the whole update OTA root subject since there are so many different threads on it.

xocomaox said:
Well.. it's not keeping root if you have to re-flash Magisk after!
You may get away with not having to flash Magisk uninstall zip, but you might as well since you'll be in recovery anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I meant flashing Magisk will boot you back into the system updated, rooted and with TWRP intact.
I haven't heard about having to uninstall Magisk or anything, was just curious

Dazed No More said:
It would be great if someone who is familiar with OnePlus products and updates could put together a defnitive, detailed post and or instructional sticky on the whole update OTA root subject since there are so many different threads on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74612843&postcount=3

padhu1989 said:
I'm coming from nexus family and I know in and out regarding flashing rooms, rooting etc for nexus devices .. I got op5t few days back and I want to root it. But I need few info's.
1. If I root the phone, Can I flash the ota Update zip using twrp?
2. If I flash the update zip successfully using twrp, will I lose twrp and root?
I just want to know what are the steps to follow to update the Stock OS but also keeping the custom recovery and root after the update..
What are the Stock things I will lose after unlocking and rooting..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you read how to do it? https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/how-to/oneplus-5t-unlock-bootloader-flash-twrp-t3704592

rooting and OTA?

hi all
assuming that i've flashed TWRP + rooted the phone
will i still be able to update the phone via OTA updates?
as this does not work on samsung phones once KNOX is tripped
i was wondering if it would be the same on oneplus devices
your input is appreciated. thanks!

leongzxc said:
hi all
assuming that i've flashed TWRP + rooted the phone
will i still be able to update the phone via OTA updates?
as this does not work on samsung phones once KNOX is tripped
i was wondering if it would be the same on oneplus devices
your input is appreciated. thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: No. Custom recovery can't process the OTA update. There's another thread talking about this topic here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/help/root-update-ota-t3712615
If you want the latest updates Funk Wizard usually posts their full zips (not small OTA zips) on XDA (just search in the 5T section) and OnePlus usually has them under the device support page.

I've not tried it myself but I heard once you root and go to software update section oneplus will detect your root and instead will download a full OTA zip which you can then dirty flash in your custom recovery (TWRP) without any issues. of course the flash will remove root and then you will need to flash root zip file to gain root again.

Well, actually I downloaded latest OTA (4.7.4) over wifi and then updated phone while rooted and with custom recovery (oficial 3.2.0 I think). And it worked! I lost root in the process (I rooted again later), but otherwise phone was updated and it was done via custom recovery. So far, I don't have any problems, but not sure if any problems will come later.

shadeau said:
Short answer: No. Custom recovery can't process the OTA update. There's another thread talking about this topic here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/help/root-update-ota-t3712615
If you want the latest updates Funk Wizard usually posts their full zips (not small OTA zips) on XDA (just search in the 5T section) and OnePlus usually has them under the device support page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Revin said:
Well, actually I downloaded latest OTA (4.7.4) over wifi and then updated phone while rooted and with custom recovery (oficial 3.2.0 I think). And it worked! I lost root in the process (I rooted again later), but otherwise phone was updated and it was done via custom recovery. So far, I don't have any problems, but not sure if any problems will come later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the response!
digitalmahdi said:
I've not tried it myself but I heard once you root and go to software update section oneplus will detect your root and instead will download a full OTA zip which you can then dirty flash in your custom recovery (TWRP) without any issues. of course the flash will remove root and then you will need to flash root zip file to gain root again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow for real?
so if you're rooted. it will not download small zips of OTA but instead the full sized OTA?
then we can choose to flash in TWRP instead?