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Hello everyone. Long time original iPhone user. I just recently switched to the Lumia 900.
My question is about in car audio functionality. Of course, with an iPhone it's as easy as plugging it into your car's USB port to get high quality line-out audio. I assumed the Nokia would give me the same ability, but it does not. I plugged the Lumia 900 into three different car's USB ports (BMW, Chevy, and Ford), and none of them recognized my phone as a device that is plugged in.
I know that you can use bluetooth streaming audio, and that works, however bluetooth audio quality is very low in comparison to a line-out connection.
So, does anyone know if this limitation comes from the Lumia's hardware or Windows Phone 7 software?
The same thing would happen if you managed to connect (assuming someone made a cable) a Lumia 900 to an iPhone dock.
The car's sound deck was specifically made to support iPods/iPhones. They usually also support flash drives, but I doubt they support any other devices.
Its not Microsoft's nor Nokia's limitation, its the cars.
Sound decks usually have a aux-in that can take a mini-jack, does your car have one?
JMackey said:
The same thing would happen if you managed to connect (assuming someone made a cable) a Lumia 900 to an iPhone dock.
The car's sound deck was specifically made to support iPods/iPhones. They usually also support flash drives, but I doubt they support any other devices.
Its not Microsoft's nor Nokia's limitation, its the cars.
Sound decks usually have a aux-in that can take a mini-jack, does your car have one?
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I'm' not so sure that the car's sound deck was specifically made for Apple hardware. I know for a fact that at least one Droid phone works when usb connected.
My documentation (DICE) actually lists Zune devices as supported, but when I plug this Windows phone in I get nothing.
mister2d said:
I'm' not so sure that the car's sound deck was specifically made for Apple hardware. I know for a fact that at least one Droid phone works when usb connected.
My documentation (DICE) actually lists Zune devices as supported, but when I plug this Windows phone in I get nothing.
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Well, maybe not specifically made, but they did need to go to apple to get certification for it. Apple also offers a hardware audio api for the dock connector, hence why so many devices are built for it.
I've never had an android phone so this is just a guess, but when you connect one to a computer, does it show up as a storage device? If so, that's probably how the car is playing the music. Its not the android device specifically, just a side affect of how its file system works.
As for the Zune, I cannot think of how that would even work. It doesn't offer itself as a storage device nor is there such a thing as a generic "Audio USB" driver. Maybe its referring to that an aux-in "supports" it?
Bottom line, unless Microsoft & car manufacturers collaborated to create this functionality or Microsoft enables Mass Storage access to a WP7, you are out of luck.
JMackey said:
Well, maybe not specifically made, but they did need to go to apple to get certification for it. Apple also offers a hardware audio api for the dock connector, hence why so many devices are built for it.
I've never had an android phone so this is just a guess, but when you connect one to a computer, does it show up as a storage device? If so, that's probably how the car is playing the music. Its not the android device specifically, just a side affect of how its file system works.
As for the Zune, I cannot think of how that would even work. It doesn't offer itself as a storage device nor is there such a thing as a generic "Audio USB" driver. Maybe its referring to that an aux-in "supports" it?
Bottom line, unless Microsoft & car manufacturers collaborated to create this functionality or Microsoft enables Mass Storage access to a WP7, you are out of luck.
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Thanks, I get the it with regards to Apple.
My audio car's connection does not have AUX, only USB and input for SIRIUS, but Zune as supported. I don't have any Zune devices to verify though.
You are likely right about the generic USB device. I bet that's how the car's interface connects to other mobile devices. Connecting my Lumia 900 to my laptop does not yield a USB device to copy files to.
I'll see to putting in a question to Nokia and see where that leads me.
A shame this doesn't work out of the box over USB. That's where you'll get the highest quality sound.
WP7 phones does not support any USB mass storage or MTP mode. It can only talk to Zune software. Android phones DO support MTP and mass storage mode through USB. There is zero chance you will ever see WP7 phone work through any USB port that is not Zune on a PC.
foxbat121 said:
WP7 phones does not support any USB mass storage or MTP mode. It can only talk to Zune software. Android phones DO support MTP and mass storage mode through USB. There is zero chance you will ever see WP7 phone work through any USB port that is not Zune on a PC.
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Thanks for this. Information on this topic is scarce. I think I may have the wrong phone now.
AUX output with car radio
Hi, Mister2d,
I've always used AUX output with my WM 6.5 Tilt 2 to my 2010 Toyota Prius, with no problems. (using a standard 3.5 mm (1/4 ") double female cable to link phone to AUX jack in the car.)
I've had the N L 900 for about two weeks, and at first the apparent lack of AUX output compatability was fustrating. But the problem is simply solved. It stems from the interaction of the Toyota radio volume setting and also the N L 900 phone volume setting. Basicially, if either is low, then almost no sound comes out of the car speakers. I find that with the N L 900 volume set @ ~15-20, then the car radio volume gives very adequate output, (although the car needs to be set to ~40, as was the case with the HTC Tilt 2). The result is not blasting, suitable for classical, soft rock & tele calls. Volume is easily fine-tuend with the car volume settings, but drops off quickly below 35.
Oh, yeah - Make sure you do not have the phone ringer OFF - This seems to be an intermittent kink in the circuitry . . .
(By the way, my previous rants about lousy sound quality on the Titan I do NOT apply to the N L 900 - Overall sound quality is excellent . . ., although there are other serious problems - See below . . .
Regards,
Artzznyzz
PS,
I need your help re problems with stability of zoom & display occuring in Explorer and MS office / Excel. I'm looking for a better thread to post it in . . .
artzznyzz said:
Hi, Mister2d,
I've always used AUX output with my WM 6.5 Tilt 2 to my 2010 Toyota Prius, with no problems. (using a standard 3.5 mm (1/4 ") double female cable to link phone to AUX jack in the car.)
I've had the N L 900 for about two weeks, and at first the apparent lack of AUX output compatability was fustrating. But the problem is simply solved. It stems from the interaction of the Toyota radio volume setting and also the N L 900 phone volume setting. Basicially, if either is low, then almost no sound comes out of the car speakers. I find that with the N L 900 volume set @ ~15-20, then the car radio volume gives very adequate output, (although the car needs to be set to ~40, as was the case with the HTC Tilt 2). The result is not blasting, suitable for classical, soft rock & tele calls. Volume is easily fine-tuend with the car volume settings, but drops off quickly below 35.
Oh, yeah - Make sure you do not have the phone ringer OFF - This seems to be an intermittent kink in the circuitry . . .
(By the way, my previous rants about lousy sound quality on the Titan I do NOT apply to the N L 900 - Overall sound quality is excellent . . ., although there are other serious problems - See below . . .
Regards,
Artzznyzz
PS,
I need your help re problems with stability of zoom & display occuring in Explorer and MS office / Excel. I'm looking for a better thread to post it in . . .
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Click to collapse
Yeah I'm not looking for aux output for two reasons:
1. Its sound quality is bad in comparison to a true line-out.
2. It would require two connections from the top of my Lumia, one for the headphone jack and one for usb (to charge). Not only is that hideous, but it would create a mess of cables in my car when I was used to just one cable providing power and high quality audio.
mister2d said:
Yeah I'm not looking for aux output for two reasons:
1. Its sound quality is bad in comparison to a true line-out.
2. It would require two connections from the top of my Lumia, one for the headphone jack and one for usb (to charge). Not only is that hideous, but it would create a mess of cables in my car when I was used to just one cable providing power and high quality audio.
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Click to collapse
Huh.. I never realized that about the dock connector. I didn't realize that line-out isn't the same as headphones out.
Do your vehicles really have the speakers to be able to tell the difference? The BMW maybe, but the others? (I'm not an audiophile in anyway so I am honestly curious)
JMackey said:
Huh.. I never realized that about the dock connector. I didn't realize that line-out isn't the same as headphones out.
Do your vehicles really have the speakers to be able to tell the difference? The BMW maybe, but the others? (I'm not an audiophile in anyway so I am honestly curious)
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Yeah I can tell the difference. Bass notes (among other things) aren't as good since coming out of a headphone jack it gets double amp'ed (one from the phone and then from your car's amp). The result is not so good, and it's the reason why you have to adjust your volume on the phone first to acceptable levels to avoid distortion.
Bluetooth audio is even worse. It's fine for podcasts and such but for music, not so much.
Hi to the fantastic team of minds on XDA! I'm currently working through building a wireless charging/streaming dock with NFC for my Nexus 5, although the plan is to extend support to any device that supports Wireless Charging & NFC.
Basic concept is for use in a car, but could also be adapted for other situations easily. Basic operation is drop phone in charging area/cradle, NFC tag is read by phone and either launches the music player OR for me in my case, runs tasker to set volume max, play library on shuffle, launch GPS tracking for work/private mileage etc and the phone would stream audio to a receiver wired into the cars headunit.
NFC/Wireless charging.. piece of cake. Audio streaming... not so fun.
I would really like decent audio quality, not quite audiophile level but certainly at least as good as the 3.5mm line out from the headphone jack. Initially I disliked the idea of bluetooth due to quality however looking around I found some Bluetooth 4 APT-X enabled boards that seemed to fit the bill fairly well as apparently APT-X sounds much better in comparison to A2DP (haven't tried out for myself though). Only problem is the Nexus as well as a lot of other devices don't support APT-X. Other than bluetooth I'm really struggling to find a good quality wireless streaming standard that is fairly plug and play. I found a WiFi option via DTS using DLNA but the details on the receiving hardware are sketchy, it also doesn't seem very transparent (requires input from 3rd party apps etc).
I also found a few posts relating to Chromecast enabled media servers that will allow Play music to cast music to them, but again, can't really find any pre made WiFi enabled DLNA "dumb" servers designed to simply capture an audio stream. Again, not very transparent. Ideally it would work natively and without much 3rd party input.. although this may not be entirely possible so I'm open to all options.
So, what are my options? Also, why with Bluetooth 4 with the max bitrate of 20+mbps do we not have a high bit rate audio streaming profile/protocol?
I did consider the idea of a wired DAC, but the major plus on the cable free design is being able to just drop the phone in and grab it out without fiddling for cables. Also the Nexus 5 doesn't support USB DAC OOTB. I also had difficulty sourcing a DAC that would output acceptable audio (at least as good as the headphone jack) for a good price. Everything I found was either expensively high end or nasty & cheap. All I need is a bare board that gets stuffed into a cable box and works! I bought a cheap $5 DAC off ebay ages ago for testing. Worst mistake ever!!! Horrible sound, but hey it was $5
Thanks for any input!
- Auzeras
If bluetooth sound qualitiy is too bad for you (for me its ok with my JVC radio) i think the aux cable is the only option. But if you have to plug in the cable the "just drop your phone"-concept is gone. I suggest trying to use the USB port for audio out (because aux input isnt a big deal for most of the cars) und charging at the same time. For the dock i think using the brodit docks is ok although these docks are expensive. Alternativly you could try to use a cheaper dock.
For USB audio out i think a cheap DAC like this should be fine, but you need the usb audio recorder pro app (see this thread). Next thing is charging at the same time. Maybe its possible to do it like this with an powered usb hub but you'll have to try that. Overall its more the developing of an USB aux output with the ability of charging but i think its the only option to get the audio qualitiy you want.
OK. So 2 years ago I saw a thread on the Nexus 7 tablet forums where someone essentially turn it into a car deck. At the time it was complicated, convoluted and buggy to say the least. Since then its been a thought exercise to make this work. How I wanted it to work. This is what I wanted:
Simple plug&play. One USB connection to carry high quality audio out from the device while still allowing it to charge. This is the most difficult. On the Nexus 7 it required a special kernel and plus the accessories had to be connected in the right sequence. Not exactly the one action set up I was going for.
The easy way to accomplish this was to use a standard USB charger and then use the headphone jack to send audio to the Aux input of the stereo. Great in theory! However the phones/tablets I have used always allowed alternator whine into the sound. Not ideal either.
Third common way is to use bluetooth audio. My Pioneer deck does support this. But we all know the quality of the sound from this is OK at best. Play some ripping guitar or something melodic and you can really hear the compression (watery, slurred "S"s sound). Not good enough for me.
Now when I had first read about this concept I started accumulating various adapters and parts to play with. First was a Behringer 202 External DAC. Its low cost but had decent reviews. Perfect for my installation. Plus the added benefit of several output format options, so a deck with an optical input could also be used if yours has one. With this I got a simple USB OTG with the Micro USB charger Y-cable. The one that has a standard female USB, the charger connection and the one to the device. Now this whole thing never worked properly. I ended up using the OTG cable with the DAC, but on my home stereo where I could place a Qi Pad under the Nexus (and my S4 before) to charge and the DAC for audio. At least I was using what I spent money on. Just not the way I wanted.
Fast forward to yesterday morning. I have had my Nexus 5 for a few months but had not tried this set up. The fussing with kernels on other devices and units over the years had me giving up. But I figured why not try with the DAC and standard charger connected (they were just sitting there after all). Low and behold it worked! And I mean perfectly! It was a big light had been turned on and the world was beautiful! Then I tried my M8 and it failed......but the Nexus 5 for the win! Oh, and even when connected to the power the DAC turned off when I disconnected the phone. So it shouldn't drain my truck's battery (though I parked on a hill tonight just in case!).
So! Here is my car installation that I was finally able to complete. I have included photos of the installation and the parts I used. It's in a list format that I hope follows the pictures. it will take me a post or three to get it all in! So bear with me.
Ingredients:
Nexus 5 (I am running Liquid Smooth for my ROM, I have not tested it on other ROMs at the time of this post).
External DAC. Like the Behringer 202 I used, but I would assume most would work.
USB OTG and Charging Cable
RCA to 3.5mm headset adapter.
Standard car charger. I have a Belkin 1A one that works like a charm. In theory you could use the USB on the stereo if included, but you may not charge reliably.
Standard USB to Micro USB cable
iBolt xDockPro for the HTC. This is optional, but i like the iBolt and their right angled USB is the right way for the Nexus. Which made the set up cleaner.
Car Home Ultra from the Play Store
So. The first photo shows all the stuff I used (minus the car deck and truck).
Second you will see I am in fact using the HTC Dock
Next is the DAC I used
Followed by the adapter cable
The the RCA adapter
The before picture. The sticky pad for the mount was there cause I was already using my iBolt with just a charger tucked in.
This one you will see I have taken the y-cable and connected it to the iBolt adapter. My dash had the room for this, you may need an extension as the y-cable is really short!
Dash is coming apart!
To be continued (I can only post so many pics at once!
Part Deux!
So the next photo shows my deck's AUX input. Now I bought this unit because it had a rear jack. So connected the headphone plug into the AUX jack.
These next four pictures are just to show which power supply I used and how the USB cable is run up to the y-adapter. Now it would be possible to use your stereos USB for power if equiped. I didn't for two reasons. First, the phone/stereo may think your connecting a flash drive (both unit could be trying to be the "host"). Second the stereo may not put out enough amperage to run both the phone and the connected DAC. So I just went with the separate supply. Plus its easy to disconnect it should I need too.
This is me connecting the DAC. Now I wanted to show this particular step as you can see the power light is NOT lit even when connected to vehicle power.
RCA cable is now connected to the DAC.
The set up all buttoned up!
To be continued.....
Trio!
This post is more about the proof of concept and the Car home Setup. Here it is!
Basically once the hardware was all set (1 & 2) I fired it up, and used Play Music (and others) making sure Bluetooth was NOT paired yet. Sounds AWESOME! Makes a night and day difference! Then I paired it for hands free while making sure the media wasn't connecting. Now went into Car Home Ultra and just set it to launch with the my stereo's bluetooth connection. My only next goal I need to finish is to get an NFC tag to control Bluetooth on the iBolt. Car Home is set to turn WiFi off automatically when its running, but my set up is reliant on BT running all the time (or have me remember to turn it on/off, but defeats my plug'n'play concept).
That's the gist of it. If you would like more details or suggestions please let me know!
So it's not just my Ford Fiesta that sends lots of noise to the charger? I am a little relieved, but it sucks to find out that this is somehow a "standard"...
Nice setup there!
daniel_loft said:
So it's not just my Ford Fiesta that sends lots of noise to the charger? I am a little relieved, but it sucks to find out that this is somehow a "standard"...
Nice setup there!
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There is a fix. They make something called a "ground loop isolator" that can usually fix the noise generated from you alternator. Here is an example, quick google search brought it up. http://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI-1-3-5..._sim_pc_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1FEVW0RPFQ5W3V742E6G
You could put a more temporary/portable set up like mine, wouldn't be hard if your still having issues. Put all the parts together, stuff it all in an old cassette or floppy disk case with a few holes for the cables to stick out of.
Yeah, now the challenge is to find ways to make it work on more devices. It's really unfortunate that the M8 doesn't on Sense based ROMs (I plan on trying a GPE ROM in a few days to see if that makes a difference).
And I may now invest in a proper proclip mount so it's not up on the dash like that. But it works like a hot damn as is for now. Even with LTE on, display always on and streaming audio it charges, though pretty slow. Still. Better than not at all. And I can always turn the screen off if I wanted to give it more juice.
I have my Nexus 5 w/o the case using an iBolt mount I already had and a cheap qi charger and works great.
Nice Setup... I was actually looking for something like this. Thanks for posting
There are a lot of microUSB to USB + aux splitters on amazon for the Samsung Galaxy phones. Would these have worked all the same? Or does the Nexus 5 not have a docking capability that would sense the plug?
For those that don't know BlackBerry sells a blutooth adapter that uses power from the usb charging port on your after market stereo. I use it on mine. This thing is crazy small I hide it in the gap behind my stereo and the reception is good you have around a 10ft radius depending on where you hid your dongle.
http://shop.crackberry.com/blackberry-music-gateway/9A172A11438.htm
Nice I see you have a Colorado. I have a Nexus 7 in mine. I can say that after hours and days of troubleshooting ground noise I could not get rid of it. I had to use a ground loop isolator
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Hi everyone. This will partly be a documentation of what I'm doing but also a development thread. I'm sure that this won't be as straightforward as I expect it to be, that's for sure.
So anyway, the basic install will be a custom-modified dash in our 2001 PT Cruiser and the install based around a Tab S2 8.0....so far. The problem I'm likely facing is OTG whilst charging. I've not looked into this specifically for a few weeks so I'm unsure as to how problematic it will or won't be. Anyway.
The Tab will be semi-permanently installed behind the fascia (requiring it to be removed to access the device) and locked into landscape mode. A 12VDC to 5V 3A regulator with an OTG Y-cable (again, up for discussion) wakes the tablet up (an AutoMate feature to "open when charging") whilst providing simultaneous connection to a small USB hub. The hub will be connected to SD/uSD card reader slots fitted to the console, plus an auxiliary USB port or two for charging, Flash drives, etc. A USB audio DAC directs audio from the tablet via the hub to an external amplifier out to the car speakers. Simple.
I'm waiting for components to come in first of all, however I'll do my best to document the work done to the centre console including plastics welding/forming, paint and prep. The electronics side of things should be great as long as we've no big OTG/charging conflict. The other potential issue is....can the tablet run using less power than it is being charged by? It'd be a bummer if the battery slowly drained during use instead of replenishing....
I look forward to your comments, experience and input guys. This should be fun times.
Did you have any luck with this? I'm wanting to do similar with my Galaxy Tab S2 9.7.
I am running something similar but simpler.
A Lenovo Yoga Tab3 tablet running Headunit Reloaded. This turns the tablet into an Android Auto headend.
Connection between phone and tablet via WiFi.
Kept the car's BT and radio.
I use tablet audio only for GPS voice directions. Calls and music go through BT to car's amp.
Since Google apparently fixed USB DAC problems in June, what dongle DACs have ppl successfully used to play music 24bit/96kHz and up? Also has anyone used the Qobuz app (not UAPP) to play hi-res? TIA
I have a Samsung dongle and it can output 24bit/96kHz with my Pixel.
I use a moshi usb-c dac
USB-C Digital Audio Adapter with Charging (Universal)
Newly updated for maximum compatibility across all USB-C devices, including the iPad Pro (USB-C). Listen to pristine, high-resolution audio using regular 3.5 mm headphones. A USB-C pass-through port lets you charge your device at the same time.
us.moshi.com
You guys streaming with something like Tidal/Qobuz or playing local media files?
I use two regularly, an IFI Hip Dac, and a Topping NX4. As for the music, when I'm streaming, I use Apple Music which will give you the option to play the songs in hi res if you have a DAC connected. I used Amazon Music HD for years before that, and have always been a life long Android fan, so never even considered Apple Music. So as much as I don't really care for Apple or their products, I have it to hand it to them on the music front. They do something with their mastering of some of the albums (called Apple Masters or something), that, to my ears, just sound better than on Amazon.
That being said, I also have a qobuz subscription, but don't use their app. Instead, I use a script from GitHub called Qobuz-dl, which allows me to download the hi res music in FLAC form. All the music I download goes to my NAS, and from there, I connect it to apps like USB Audio Player Pro, Jellyfin, Plex, etc, and listen to it that way.
@mattprice86 Did you have compatibility problems with your DACs before Google released the USB update in June? On P6Pro I'm also using Apple Music and surprised how good it is. Using
the Apple USB-C DAC, too, which works fine but is limited to 16bit/44-48kHz on Android AFAIK. So I'm looking for a dongle that does high-res streaming and better sound quality. Something like the Hidizs S3 Pro but I'm hesitating to drop the cash because of the USB issues the P6 has had
q1nt said:
@mattprice86 Did you have compatibility problems with your DACs before Google released the USB update in June? On P6Pro I'm also using Apple Music and surprised how good it is. Using
the Apple USB-C DAC, too, which works fine but is limited to 16bit/44-48kHz on Android AFAIK. So I'm looking for a dongle that does high-res streaming and better sound quality. Something like the Hidizs S3 Pro but I'm hesitating to drop the cash because of the USB issues the P6 has had
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Yea I did. It was unusable for me prior to the update in June. I can't remember exactly what they did every time I tried to play music, but it was something like the sound would keep cutting out, or it'd start to play a noise over the music. I just remember having to turn it off right away. I ended up switching over to my LG V40 for my music until the patch came out. I actually still use the V40 frequently now, because it has Viper4Android, and I like to load autoeq profiles for my IEMs with the convolver.
I never really used dongle DACs, tbh. I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I also have a Fiio BTR5, which would be the closest thing, size wise, to a dongle DAC, that I use with my phones, and it works really well too.
That S3 pro looks like it'd be ok too. It's using an ESS9281C DAC chip. I haven't heard that particular chip, but ESS sabre chips are in my Fiio and my Topping NX4, and I like them. They have a brighter sound than something like a Burr Brown chip, that are used in Hip DACs.
@mattprice86 Thx that's super helpful--think I'll give the S3 a try. We've got similar tastes--I have a bricked V20 I used for years and still hoping to resurrect when I get a chance
I'm on Fiio KA-3, never had any compatibility issues with it, oddly an app hiby I think caused issues detecting it but otherwise it's been great.
Just Spotify high quality and download lots of flac to throw in media server
mattprice86 said:
Yea I did. It was unusable for me prior to the update in June. I can't remember exactly what they did every time I tried to play music, but it was something like the sound would keep cutting out, or it'd start to play a noise over the music. I just remember having to turn it off right away. I ended up switching over to my LG V40 for my music until the patch came out. I actually still use the V40 frequently now, because it has Viper4Android, and I like to load autoeq profiles for my IEMs with the convolver.
I never really used dongle DACs, tbh. I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I also have a Fiio BTR5, which would be the closest thing, size wise, to a dongle DAC, that I use with my phones, and it works really well too.
That S3 pro looks like it'd be ok too. It's using an ESS9281C DAC chip. I haven't heard that particular chip, but ESS sabre chips are in my Fiio and my Topping NX4, and I like them. They have a brighter sound than something like a Burr Brown chip, that are used in Hip DACs.
Click to expand...
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How's the btr5 is it '21 edition? I'm aiming for the older one. I don't need to be thattt bleeding edge. I kind of shifted from iems over to my home audio which was a mistake because there is so many more in variables than headphones
@7h the KA-3 looks good to me. Have you had any issues playing hi res flacs on it?
Another vote for btr5 from fiio. It's excellent. I also have the btr3 but the 5 is much better in every way for both wired and wireless playback.
Reporting back... I pulled the trigger and bought a Hidizs S3 Pro. Works and sounds great. Blue LED lights up for streaming 96kHz tracks directly through the Qobuz app. I'm not using UAPP so apparently Qobuz app can stream in USB exclusive mode. P6 Pro with GrapheneOS