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[Introduction] As I bought a Tytn in December 2006 I started to visit these forums since then. Although I’m used to computers and programming since at about 1982 I had to learn a lot about flashing, security arrangements before flashing and so on. So I tried to read all the other postings and the wiki. After some weeks I flashed the first Rom, everything went well until now. Then – some weeks ago – Jasjamming was “a bit angry” about all the postings in the Black2 thread. First I couldn’t reproduce his anger but after some days of absence from the forums I noticed that’s its more or less impossible to read some hundred postings with the same topic in a thread. Now JJ again requested more discipline:
jasjamming said:
Therefore a note to Noobs: stop flooding with jargon because you will only be hurting yourself and other members of this forum. Also remember that these ROMS are provided to you by people that do them for fun, we are not your Telco Operator, we dont provide service to you if your 3G connection or access point connections have been erased when flashing. You flash at your own risk, if something goes wrong its on your head. Also remember that the amount of information you get on this forum from other member far exceed the support you will get from your Telco. Therefore dont deman anything and dont expect anything, if someone helps you be grateful.
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This time he did it in a very very polite way and again he is right. I know that I did nothing special for the community besides answering some easy questions and I’m not sure if I’m entitled to make suggestions. Anyway: What about different threads for the next Rom? One as already available for “nontech matters” and “thanks for the great rom JJ” postings, one more for questions like “provider gprs/mms settings” and one for technical feedbacks to this rom to make it easier for the developers to eliminate mistakes and to improve their work.
Just my 2 cents but maybe it works to give better feedback to all the guys who are working hard in their spare time to give us all a nearly perfect working phone.
BTW: I’ve sworn to myself not to answer to statements like this
I'm not some teenage snot noob, I'm a 37 year old professional, running a company... I have better & more important things to do with my life than trawl through pages & pages of threads. .
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but I can not resist, sorry for that . In my opinion its irrelevant who somebody is and what he is doing in his private life and/or his job. If somebody is seeking for advice in a forum like this and he has not time enough to read all the other posts and the wiki/guides then apparently he found the wrong place for asking questions. I for myself wasn’t very impressed that a gentleman who is running a company is posting in this forum (but I would have been impressed if he would have had some useful hints for all). Thanks to wpbear for not answering this posting.
Conclusion: I’m very grateful to all the Romcookers for providing us improved Roms and to everybody who is giving advices, writing guides and so on. Thanks to everybody and keep it up.
Black
I bought the Hermes with great expectation and was disappointed soon with the ROM that came with it. If this site doesn't exist, I would probably had change to the Nokia N95 or something else.
I had flashed the South African ROM first and got it working. Black 2.0 was the only cooked ROM I've flashed. I had a few trouble when loaded tons of software in the beginning. I learned my lessons and hard reset with a little discipline. Black 2.0 has met my need. I run a company myself and I am thankful for those went the extra mile to help others out, something I wish more people can learn from.
I am grateful for JJ and the other chef who had made my device productive which otherwise would have been a total waste.
So, THANK YOU TO THE CHEFS.
if it wasnt for these guys i would still be using wm5 - and italy is usually the last country getting any updates...
LVSW and black are both great roms, i like switching from one to another to see their improvements
i read for hours and check this forum almost daily... i wish i had some knowledge to share but for now i can only learn from the big chefs
keep up to good job guys
@Gerals_S
I have to back you on this. Well said! I will resist the temptation to add more to your statement...
I suggested something similar in this previous thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306514
however shogun mark says that the admins have no intention of changing the current system and closed the thread.. Am sure they will do likewise to this one...
You suggested sub-forums and this would change nothing. Everybody would post again in one thread and the thread would explode like the others before. I suggested to make 3 threads, for example:
.) Black3,5 - non tech comments
Here everybody can post things like "JJ u r great"
.) Black3,5 - Settings & Programs Issues
Everything about 3rd party software not running, provider settings....
.) Black3,5 - Hardcore Tech Thread
For all the real tech issues and solutions
So JJ could see very clear whether a new Rom is running without issues or not and if he's in a bad mood he could have a look to all the "you are the man" postings in a different thread.
I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.
On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
I will give you an example of my PM inbox (which has at the moment around 980 messages in there - I cleaned it last week without reading any of them) - I have hundres of posts entitled "cingular version" "tmobile version" "3g not working" "where is vjtools" "will this work on a wizard"...
Hence i gave up.
Like i said, donations are appreciated and my appreciation is shown in further releases and my free time that i sacrifice to help this community with my ROMS to help your hermes be what it is supposed to be (my mrs is making me sleep on the sofa )
Now, on the issue of bloated threads, Black 3.5 will most likely no be released here but on a forum that I moderate and membership is tight hence I and others can control noob posts with attitude. In addition, to download the ROM, you must become a member. Hopefully I will have more control over the situation. This forum I speak of has 3 strict rules and one of them is:
1. If you post stupid noob questions or responses - you will be banned immediately without warning.
As per my professional job, you sometimes have to hit people really hard so they learn their lesson, warnings just aint enough. So sit tight, Black 3.5 is currently being developed with new drivers and some other tweaks, but will most likely not be hosted here, hence xda-developers.com has the right to delete any threads started by members here as they will not be hosting my new BLACK ROM.
Cheers,
JJ
mbn said:
I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.
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Question...
What is a noob???
jj my only hope is that you will find it in your heart to let me be a part of black 3.5 if u have time and look at my posts ull see they are usefull and not noobish. i read your threads from top to bottom and know how to search. pm me if u let me. back on topic. thank you for all your roms and i look forward to the next. i been with black since 2.0 and am proud. i read and make the rom perfect. loving 3.0.1 love your roms so much that im staying at 3.0.1 and have my bluetooth off and headset sitting on the desk bc of the bluetooth problems and aint complainging bc ur current is just as fast and stable as you said.
jasjamming said:
On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
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JJ - Thanks for the response. I like your idea of a limited release and restricted access. Given the increasing hysteria each of your releases has generated, and the growing number of people that have no clue that are flashing, I think that's the right idea.
I just sent you a PM. Please read it .
My 2c..
Personally I think it helps to have "it works great" and "has problem with xyz" in the same discussion as you can get a feel for how many people find a tool/app/rom release stable/problematic.
"Thanks, will download now" seems more appropriate as a PM between people who at least vaguely know each other, or have exchanged posts regularly.
In regard to your new forum, JJ you may like to do a breakdown of individual modules. IE: a thread with your new build then sub folders under that with BT, wireless, phone, etc.
I've been using Groove (www.groove.com) before it was purchased by MS for our techs on the road with new software releases and the way one can setup workspaces has really saved time. We create a software workspace, then sub folders under that workspace for every module and the filtering system works well IF and only IF people put something relevant in the title.
The techs on the Groove space are severerly reprimanded if they reply to posts with useless or trivial info. My research (physically counting in most cases) has shown that more threads are bloated by people throwing retorts back at less than satisfactory posters, hence they are treated more harshly.
There has not been one of our tech or development team who has not at some stage posted a complete dickheaded post.
We have found that if the OP doesn't get a reply to their less than adequate post they tend to realize why after a short time and start to read our wiki a little more thoroughly.
I've read all of that 96 odd pages of the build 3.xx Black to see if it would fit with my way of doing things on the Hermes. It looks like I won't be seeing another cut of it, though.
JJ, you have a hell of a lot more patience than me, mate. I would have simply pulled the ROM quicker than a bargirl can grab you a beer in Phuket.
Sure everyone like to receive kudos, but reading that arselicking first couple of pages of the Black 3.xx thread was like listening to my 13 year old neice talking with her friends...
How about some of you "senior" members start pulling your heads in and acting like senior members. Just ignore the stupid bloody posts. You don't have to a freaking rocket scientist to realize that every post you reply to is bloating the thread more.
Now I feel like a ****ing goose cos I've just bloated this one.
cheers,
Keeping it simple.
JJ and all the other cooks out there,
1st off, thank you for all your hard work. So far I have enjoyed playing with 5 different ROMs due to your generosity. Black 3.0 rocks and I like that I can add the apps that I want without all the extras.
As a noob myself, I always thought that there were no stupid questions... until I started reading the forums. I am amazed at how bloated the forums are with "Downloading now..." and "You rock". I wonder if there are any moderators even reading anymore. Can a moderator zap a poster with an automatic 1 week no posting “time-out”? If so, I might volunteer to mod ;->
So here is my $0.03 (inflation is hell) worth of suggestion on top of the ones being tossed in the mix. In your initial posting to announce your next great act of kindness and generosity, just include a link to the technical issues forum post for Black 3.5... You don’t really have to hide it… Just don’t make it too obvious.
All the goobers will spin their wheels going "Wow..." and "Thanks, downloading now..." in the first forum which will attract the dumb noobs who ask or demand for the easy answers. Those that read will know where to go for real issues and input. Kind of like a “too friken lazy to read when I can just type” filter.
Just a thought and since this forum is for “Suggestion for the next Black Rom Thread” I figure it’s safe to post this one…
Thanks again for all your work, I am amazed at what you accomplish.
gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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A new WM6 ROM thats better than Bill Gates' own. Cooked just for you.
gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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Anyone else see any irony here? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
JJ, props on the tightly restricted forum idea - just please leave it open for people to read. Some people actually do read.
I fully understand why JJ is doing what he is with the next release i just think it a shame that the community has to fragment to survive . It will make the dissemination of knowledge that more difficult and on a personal level make life a tad more complicated having to check multiple sites rather that just multiple forums in one site.
But keep up the good work all i for one am so happy your all here my friend bought an HP 6815 and hes stuck on wm5.
Laters
Matt
Let people use your hard work
Hi JJ,
I'm using black from first version on tytn, i tried a lot of others rom before, but only black can give me more satisfaction and i feel more stable.I'm not using post any question, just because everything working well, or because i already find the answer on the forum.Anyway you must know that a lot of people maybe use your roms but as no time to test a lot so as no reason to give you a lot of feedback.i just think that people demonstrate your hard work is very appreciated.
Anyway, maybe you cook these roms for yourself but i think any person who use it give you more satisfaction. Of course a work regarding so many persons will produde massive reactions and a lot of posts, but without some of them your roms not so good.
So let people at least download.
Your work help the community.
Any work as a boring part, in your case a lot of posts.
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "
mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!
i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start
Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.
JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.
Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx
can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22
It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!
Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.
I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Click to collapse
Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
github said:
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't necessarily a matter of days or weeks of when the new report system/mod involvement will roll out. The report system is being reworked to accommodate the mods and users alike. The old way was only beneficial to the users and create hassle for the mod team. This made it more difficult to deal with reports instead of simpler. The report system was made that way in the first place because, at the time, it was the right way to do it. As the user base exploded here, it became apparent that this was no longer viable.
The old report system dumped all reports into a massive pile and made it difficult to get to the important ones that needed immediate attention. This is why you now need to PM mods to address moving threads. That isn't an important issue as much as flaming, kanging, or warez is.
There is a new system in the works to address the issues that the old system raised as well as make it simpler for users to report posts. You'll just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out. Don't worry, good things come to those who wait.
As far as mod involvement, this is where the new [revised] site direction comes in. It's no longer an act of congress to ban or discipline someone. If a user does something retarded, he will be punished. It's that simple. However, not every mod can be in every place at once. That's the whole reason we have a report function. Especially if you see a forum needs deep cleaning, you should PM the forum mod first. If that doesn't work, PM any senior mod with your problem. There is also a Requests from the users to the mods and admins sticky thread here that you can utilize.
All in all, there are good things on the way. We just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out.
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
In colloquial English, an "Iron Fist" refers to the authority exerted by a powerful, unforgiving governing figure, extended variously to public or private life, used to describe a person who operates under strictly authoritarian principles. Ex. "Josef Stalin ruled the USSR with an iron fist" ...
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ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
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They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
github said:
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
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Click to collapse
Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
cajunflavoredbob said:
They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
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Click to collapse
Spot on.
XperienceD said:
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spot on. Our goal has been to assign mods to device forums that apply to them. When possible, we attempt to assign a few mods to each device forums such that time zone overlap occurs.
Some of the challenges we often encounter are:
Infrequent mod attendance; this is a volunteer (aka unpaid) role after all
Mods who switch to a new device at some point before a replacement mod is assigned - i.e. they now manage several forums
Obtaining quality mod candidates
Mods who decide to retire
ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was covered in the message:
Svetius said:
The name "Iron Fist" is a bit of an inside joke among the moderators--we are very clearly not an unyielding Gestapo.
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And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
mrkite38 said:
And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "Allan Parson Project" seems a more befitting name
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
twospirits said:
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
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Very good point. I try to only involve my forum mods, but I like your idea too. Depending on the issue sometimes I'll PM a few mods that I have known in the past to be pretty quick to take action and/or helpful overall.
I won't name any names, but one of them posted in here *cough* Thanks!
Hopefully Iron Fist is more like Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury!
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
Audionut11 said:
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
So 4 mods posted after my post here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
And I guess they didn't feel it was enough for "iron fist"?
Zeus... God of Awesome!
mattykinsx said:
Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
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I second that.
XperienceD said:
Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id like to respond to this as I'm currently moderating the Arc section.
I do not own the device but to be honest I spend far more time in the forumsi moderate than in the forums for devices I own.
Now, atm you may be thinking, "aye right, the place is a s×××hole"
You may be right as I haven't been around much in the past few days.
However under "normal" real life circumstances. All my forums are swept at least once a day. If I should miss anything then please do not hesitate to PM me.....
I make every effort to close/delete/m ove misplaced or duplicate threads but obv. some do get missed, simply because I cannot read every thread. Again, in such a situation or if you just want to discuss the way the section is moderated then please do PM me and let me know.....
I hope that addresses some of your concerns.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Hi folks,
I've spent a few days looking over the forum and have to say. good work
There don’t seem to be many issues, everyone seems to be getting on in the spirit of XDA.
I'm a firm fan of ‘if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it’ so I'm not going to be flying in making huge changes or swapping things around. this is your forum I'm just here to help keep things nice. if anyone has any ideas of how to improve things in this area - (not XDA as a whole) please drop me a PM, and we’ll put it to a vote. if it’s a good idea I'll change it if i can or I'll push for the changes with the senior team.
While this may be a legacy forum it’s clear there is still a lot of interest and a lot of life in this device still keep up the work and we’ll keep the phone alive I want to start on the right foot so a FEW IMPORTANT REMINDERS
please take the time to read - and for regular users - re-read the forum rules. it’s a good thing to remind yourselves of how we work http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=341
All the rules are important but to focus on a few.
we are here to help and learn. people do make mistakes. I don’t like users being flamed for asking a question. I'd rather we educated and pointed people in the right way to help them for the future. it’s OK to say use search - it’s not OK to abuse people
I also don’t like people putting a lot of work into something and getting flamed either - a lot of the work posted is a work in progress - people share this out of the goodness of their heart and also so they can get positive comments on how to improve. Again it’s not OK to abuse people cos they shared a work in progress.
sharing work - many developers are happy to share their work with others and in some cases one persons work is used as a base by others. - If you want to change someones work and then release it as your own - ASK FOR PERMISSION FIRST AND THEN LINK TO THE ORIGINAL DEV IN YOU RELEASE!!!
don’t post or link to warez - they will be removed.
Please report any issues or concerns to me as soon as you can using the report button or by PM- I'll deal with them.
Thanks
Chris
IF YOU WERE GIVEN A LINK TO THIS THREAD BY ANOTHER MEMBER OF XDA IT'S PROBABLY FOR A GOOD REASON!
PLEASE HEED THE WARNING, TAKE A LITTLE LESSON IN POSTING ETIQUETTE, BEFORE YOU ARE REPORTED TO A MOD, IF THAT HAS NOT ALREADY HAPPENED.
Far too often people post in threads without thinking of the developers feelings and it's becoming a big problem!
Think of it this way!
You just spent countless hours working building your new custom car.
Now your such a nice guy you let people take it for a drive and check it out for FREE!
How would feel if they come back and most LOVE IT and appreciate the work you've done but,,
some say..
"It uses too much gas"
"It's way too slow"
"It hesitates when I tow a tractor trailer"
"I Hate the colors"
If you were the developer sharing your hard work for free and reading comments like that, you would think, Dam What a ^%*&%^*& *&^*&^, why am letting people trash my hard work!?! Heck with this, I don't need this!
THINK A LITTLE BEFORE POSTING!!
In stead of saying
"This ROM sucks the life out of my battery"
Try
"How is everyone's battery life on this? I'm getting 10 hours with 2 hours screen on time. This is my 3rd battery cycle, I'm on WIFI 90% of the time. I installed BetterBattery Stats and it shows xxx. Any recommendations / ideas? Also did A Clean with a full wipe, did not flash and mods / kernels" Even better add a Logcat, you may find in the logcat that X app is checking your location every 2 seconds and shows up 1000 times in the log.
In stead of saying
"This sucks! Every time I open the camera it crashes"
Try
"Is anyone else having this problem? For some reason every time I open the camera app it crashes. I tried redownloading the ROM, double checked the MD5, did a clean install, full wipe, and let it sit for 10 min after 1st boot then rebooted. Attached is the Logcat I grabbed using CatLog from the play store"
Look at that! That way your not assuming that the developer messed up! And you may actually be being helpful by providing a Logcat so he can actually look into the problem.
Making statements without providing information is,, well rude and not helpful to anyone!
And worst of all, it can discourage or drive the Developers away!
If you were smart enough to be able to make your own ROM - Kernel you would not need the Developers help, and could fix it yourself!
Most of us do not have the time and or brains to be a developer!
So PLEASE show some respect to the Developers that are kind enough to share their work with us for FREE!
Hit their Thanks Button often, and consider buying them a Coke or Redbull aka Donate :highfive:
Same basic principal goes for when you reply to someone!
IMO if the question has already been asked and answered, quote the last answer. Or the part of the OP with the answer.
Better yet quote a few of the last times the question was answered and show that you can use the search feature.
To me, if you can show me the question has been answered 3 times already, I feel like a fool with egg on my face and will STFU.
Smart comments and rude answers, even just saying, use search, usually just leads to more useless comments and bickering for all of us to read through!
If you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything! Just move on
Next time you see someone posting like a jerk, try to provide a nice helpful answer and direct them to this post for a little lesson and consider reporting the post!! See next post for more info!
Please get with the program or expect to be reported and possibly banned for a period!
This includes asking or hinting at an ETA! Don't do it!
On that note here are a few words form Woody about reporting trouble makers
Woody said:
Use your best judgment. We don't need gestapo type reporting, but you get the idea of what is needed.
It would behoove (yes I said behoove) people to maybe look at how a report is done. My buddy TonyStark had put a thread together a while ago on how to use the Report function. {Guide} Getting a Moderators help. I also have it linked in my signature, as well. It can be intimidating a bit when you hit that button. Hopefully this will help.
One thing that I might add regarding the reluctance to report you posted above. All reports are anonymous. Only people who know the names are us (Mods) and the User who reported it. Not the person who is being reported (unless you, yourself post in the thread "Reported")
*********
Now at this point, I think that we have strayed from what this thread is trying to accomplish. Posting with Proper Etiquette. Let's turn it back to that, so that when people who are linked back here will understand why. You can always shoot me a PM if you have a question or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And for crying out loud please learn to Logcat! There are apps for that that can make it easy.
Plus in my never to be humble opinion, if you can't logcat, you should not be flashing anything!
Also read this!
And I recommend reading the following from Recognized Contributor TonyStark
So you are tired of being called a noob - I want to shake the noob status
First and most important, read this New User Guides
Q: How do I contact a forum Moderator for -fill in the blank- on a problem with -fill in the blank-
I have been on XDA for years and have always found these steps to be the best. Not only for you but for the process as well. Please remember to be patient. If you do not receive a message (shown in 4) within 5 days, please re-post.
1) In the upper right hand corner OF EVERY POST you will find this.Click on the caution sign.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
and now in 2013 format
2) Please fill the pertinent information into this screen. PLEASE do not make it personal or use colorful language. Just be brief and to the point
3) You need to make a selection in the drop down. PLEASE do not be overzealous in choosing a topic. In 95% of cases you will only need to choose Other - Non-urgent
4) You will receive a message
In most cases this will be followed by a resolution.
Hope this helps
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
Jelly419 said:
Praise!
Cool story, bro!
They call me "Jelly" cuz jam don't shake like this!
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ktetreault14 said:
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
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Hopefully the people that need it, actually read it!
Help out and stick this thread in your sig, or direct the people who need it here!
I'm beyond tired of seeing good developers leaving or getting pissed off by posts from people who post without thinking 1st!
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
CitrixLemon said:
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
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You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
sswb27 said:
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
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Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
jangst123 said:
You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
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You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
ingenious247 said:
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
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I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore. It's difficult to always convey someones personality over text, without emoticons and "lol's" and ":good:" or ":highfive:"... I'm a prime example of that. I try to say lol, or put a winky face or what have you, but I try and get to the point and tell them its a few pages back... orrr I give them 10 links and tell it 'em took me 5 minutes to do that. I'm no search wizard or anything like that, I just use keywords and then read through things. The users that want things handed to them on a gold platter are a large issue at hand. I would go as far to say as 75% of the questions asked in a dev thread, are in the OP in one way shape or form. I have a q&a thread for Cm10 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813456 with 10.1 info (which is almost of use to all 4.2 roms out there)... I have a resource guide http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2088179 Which I'm still ironing things out (should do that today actually, haha) and I have a q&a for Illusion 4.2 rom http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2106546 which for the time being pertained to AOKP and Vanilla Rootbox for the most part. People have looked and looked over them for the most part and still ask the most redundant questions in the dev threads, and open new threads with stuff that I've covered already. If it's something I haven't covered, I answer them respectfully almost every time, and/or point them to a thread that will help them. This needs to be done more often to stop the unnecessary posts, which turn into bashing threads, which turn into more work for the mods. I agree with the OP, some devs will take things to heart and walk away and we are down more person or team that will help us with our phone "needs" ... Devs and themers and such just have to look at it this way... "You can't please them all"-some wise man... And I think I ranted long enough. LUNCH TIME!!!
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
We are doing way better than what was done on the t989 Hercules forums. We should keep it that way. At least til there is a real s4
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
mt3g said:
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This pretty much sums up all these, in my opinion, useless threads/posts. In one concise sentence.
Guys, we don't need a thread for common sense. People who lack common sense won't have sense enough to read the thread. In other words, you are preaching to the choir. This solves nothing.
Enforce the current forum rules. Ban, or at the very least, suspend idiots. Need more moderators, we don't have anywhere near the amount we need. Two to three moderators for each device forum. None of this would have happened. Rules aren't enforced, plain and simple. Rules that are not enforced will be ignored. Do you drive the speed limit? No. Why? Because the rule isn't enforced.
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Woody said:
Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Meh.... The rude and ignorant on tech forums of today are just the newest generation of AOL "me too"ers from yester-year. You couldn't take them seriously either.
I for one am grateful for those that pave the way in new arenas for me.
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I absolutely despise people who post, "LEARN 2 USE SEARCH/GOOGLE" instead of simply providing whatever link or help the person is looking for, especially when it's a simple thing like how to get root.
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your absolutely correct!
Responding in that way often starts a flame war.
If ya ain't got nothing nice or helpful to say, don't say it.
Quote the last correct answer to the question, or answer the question politely and move on.
Don't stir the pot.
Anything else often leads to 10 or more useless posts to read through.
I for one often don't have the time to read though all the extra crap that gets posted every time someone gets their feelings hurt.
I did not create this tread to address all the issues on XDA.
I created it to have a thread to point to when I come across the poster that needs a lesson in Posting Etiquette.
And hoping in doing so it would not anger the poster but help educate them a little.
So I would appreciate it if we can keep the discussion to, Posting Etiquette and how to nicely respond to those that need a lesson.
I will edit the OP later to include response etiquette.
lol,, just realized in my haste I spelled Etiquette - Ediquette :silly:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
"Stop biting the hand that feeds you." I agree with the OP 100000%. Devs are intelligent people. They don't need to stoop to bull****.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------
saranhai said:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, thank you for your work on XDA.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
jangst123 said:
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Logcat or GTFO days! Those were the days!
Adding a link to my sig! Hopefully someone will read it, but I doubt the jerks that cause the problems will take the time to read it. They already know it all.
Now that I think about it, I don't post that often to begin with, so i doubt anyone will see mys sig, but i will give it a try.
I like the,, BAM Hammer idea, lol
It would be great if we could hit the thumbs down on their post and somehow vote them off the island!