Develop Bugs

[Q] OC'd G2 starting to slow down?

I've had my g2 for a couple months now and I feel like I'm starting to see it slow down. I have it temprooted (w Visionary) and overclocked to 1.4 ghz. I used to never experience any lag at all. Lately, I've been noticing slower speeds with opening apps, navigating, etc. I have a setcpu profile set to turn the speed down to .245 ghz when the screen is off. While I expect to see some lag on turning the screen on, lately it has become extra laggy. Earlier today, I received a call and the screen didnt come up until several seconds after it began ringing. I can't take this slowness anymore.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Anyone know how I can fix it? I rarely turn my phone off, its been running for probably about a week and a half straight. Does that wear on the phone, could that be slowing it down?
Thanks

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NOTE: Screen off profiles are a waste if you ask me, I have no profiles enabled and I text HEAVILY through the day, it's been 17 hours and I'm currently at 23%. In fact, I'm still heavily texting

Some people say its good to restart at least once a day ..i usually do
[G2/HTC Vision]

Is your phone getting stuck at low clock speeds after you wake up the screen. That happened to me and reflashing the kernel cleared that up.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

cmccollough said:
I've had my g2 for a couple months now and I feel like I'm starting to see it slow down. I have it temprooted (w Visionary) and overclocked to 1.4 ghz. I used to never experience any lag at all. Lately, I've been noticing slower speeds with opening apps, navigating, etc. I have a setcpu profile set to turn the speed down to .245 ghz when the screen is off. While I expect to see some lag on turning the screen on, lately it has become extra laggy. Earlier today, I received a call and the screen didnt come up until several seconds after it began ringing. I can't take this slowness anymore.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Anyone know how I can fix it? I rarely turn my phone off, its been running for probably about a week and a half straight. Does that wear on the phone, could that be slowing it down?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know overclocking your device seems cool and all but come on. 1.4 ghz? do you really need it that high? When I first got my g2 and I stumbled upon the 1.8 GHZ kernel I though "DAMN! I'm flashing that right now!!" but I soon realized that the stock 800 MHZ was more than enough for me after my battery life took a ****. I'm not sure how you use your phone, maybe you game a lot, maybe you need the extra 600 mhz. But remember one thing. It takes power to make power. your phone was never meant to be ran past 800 mhz. which is why it came from the manufacturer clocked in at that speed. the hardware within the phone was never meant to work that hard and the manufacturer has already deciphered the perfect combination for your phone to life its life to its full extent. I dont know how much you know about overclocking but when you overclock, you're upping the voltage to gain higher frequencies out of the cpu. this results in more heat output from the hardware. we usually compensate this by upgrading the cooling system but you cant really do that on a phone can you? sure, you can set profiles and what not but whenever you turn that screen back on, your right back at 1.4 ghz. My point is, increasing the clock speeds result in more heat. failure to dissipate that heat effectively will result in damaged components. I currently have my phone set on 245/245 screen off and 245/800 fully charged. and when the battery gets to 60% or lower, its 245/768. and believe me, i experience NO lag whatsoever. the most graphically intense game i have right now is need for speed shift. and it runs fine even on 245/768. of course i dont get insanely high linpack/quadrant scores with these clocks but even so, its not reflected when i use my phone.
All im saying is think about it, think about how you use your phone, and if its really necessary to have such high cpu speeds. Because I'm sure you already know that increasing that cpu speed also decreases its lifespan. It's your decision dude. (sorry about the essay lol)

Ive been runnin' my G2 at 1.51ghz since the day we had temp-root and ive never had any issues. Also setpCPU profiles are a waste of time and im pretty sure youre actually losing more battery life since its always underclocking and overclocking it when youve got specific profiles set for it. I run 1.51ghz on the interactive governor and i can get a good 10+ hours out of the phone with moderate usage - thats with NO profiles set.
You may think the extra mhz isnt needed but trust me it makes a big difference. Then again everyone has their own preference and beliefs.
Nissan350 said:
I know overclocking your device seems cool and all but come on. 1.4 ghz? do you really need it that high? When I first got my g2 and I stumbled upon the 1.8 GHZ kernel I though "DAMN! I'm flashing that right now!!" but I soon realized that the stock 800 MHZ was more than enough for me after my battery life took a ****. I'm not sure how you use your phone, maybe you game a lot, maybe you need the extra 600 mhz. But remember one thing. It takes power to make power. your phone was never meant to be ran past 800 mhz. which is why it came from the manufacturer clocked in at that speed. the hardware within the phone was never meant to work that hard and the manufacturer has already deciphered the perfect combination for your phone to life its life to its full extent. I dont know how much you know about overclocking but when you overclock, you're upping the voltage to gain higher frequencies out of the cpu. this results in more heat output from the hardware. we usually compensate this by upgrading the cooling system but you cant really do that on a phone can you? sure, you can set profiles and what not but whenever you turn that screen back on, your right back at 1.4 ghz. My point is, increasing the clock speeds result in more heat. failure to dissipate that heat effectively will result in damaged components. I currently have my phone set on 245/245 screen off and 245/800 fully charged. and when the battery gets to 60% or lower, its 245/768. and believe me, i experience NO lag whatsoever. the most graphically intense game i have right now is need for speed shift. and it runs fine even on 245/768. of course i dont get insanely high linpack/quadrant scores with these clocks but even so, its not reflected when i use my phone.
All im saying is think about it, think about how you use your phone, and if its really necessary to have such high cpu speeds. Because I'm sure you already know that increasing that cpu speed also decreases its lifespan. It's your decision dude. (sorry about the essay lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

TL24 said:
Ive been runnin' my G2 at 1.51ghz since the day we had temp-root and ive never had any issues. Also setpCPU profiles are a waste of time and im pretty sure youre actually losing more battery life since its always underclocking and overclocking it when youve got specific profiles set for it. I run 1.51ghz on the interactive governor and i can get a good 10+ hours out of the phone with moderate usage - thats with NO profiles set.
You may think the extra mhz isnt needed but trust me it makes a big difference. Then again everyone has their own preference and beliefs.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally see where you're coming from with the whole battery life thing with setcpu. But then again it all depends on how we use our phones. My phone is off the charger from 5:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Monday through Friday and I end the day off with about 15% left with moderate/normal usage. Tried doing this without profiles and it was impossible. So there are some of us that simply cannot afford to overclock our devices for two reasons. Number 1 being that we need the extra juice to get us through our day being able to be contacted through our phones. Number 2 being that we simply do not want to cut the life of our phones by 1/3 and there's not a doubt in my mind that you know that OCing anything cuts its lifespan. But then again, there are those who simply do not care about any of that and I say **** if you don't care then why not? My main question to you though, is where? Where does it make a big difference to OC your device to 1.5 GHZ? I'm not in any way saying that you shouldn't because like you said, everyone has their own beliefs. But I want to know where it makes such a big difference? Is it the 1 second you shave off when installing apps? Or is it the 2 seconds you shave off of the boot time? In my eyes, its simply not worth it to put the cpu under so much stress and giving the device a premature death when you only shave off 1 or 2 seconds. If you hit 60+ on linpack, that's great, but I really don't think its going to reflect so much in normal functions of the device such as opening your app drawer, launching an app, or sending a text. If you game a lot, on the other hand, I can totally see why you would want to OC.
Not saying you're wrong dude, it's just something to think about.

[Facts] IMA (over)CHARGIN' MY... BATTERIES! -- oRLY!?

http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.
What happens if a battery is inadvertently overcharged? lithium-ion is designed to operate safely within their normal operating voltage but become unstable if charged to higher voltages. When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This means that the batteries are most likely FAULTY or have DEGRADED OVER TIME from using TRICKLE CHARGING on a LITHIUM-ION battery. (See quote below)
Quote below is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906144
willy900wonka said:
Kernel Devs, here's what I found, with pictures to document it.
Li-ion batteries are protected by current limiter chips. SBC kernels cannot exceed safe charging limits because the chips preclude ( stop) it. At the end of the post is a reference to the chip which controls the amperage and voltage, to and from the battery.
I decided to look inside one of my extended $10 3500ma EVO batteries, in order to see how SBC kernels could impact the battery.
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I took a series of pictures. Most were 10x and the chip number was 60x. Please be sure to check them.
VV - The four familiar contact pads for the battery.
VV - The picture (at 10x) below is of the chip which controls the operation of the battery.
It is surrounded by the red tape.
VV- The numbers on the controller chip are readable at 60x. Note
it says 8205A, and a mfg (date) code.
What I found was that a 8205 chip is used to provide protection and prevent over charging and over-discharging. Here is a quote from a google search.
Since the batteries are hardware protected, SBC kernels cannot overule and exceed the protection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

swatspyder said:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
This means that the batteries are most likely FAULTY or have DEGRADED OVER TIME from using TRICKLE CHARGING on a LITHIUM-ION battery. (See quote below)
Quote below is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906144
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the quote and thread I came to the conclusion that trickle charging could not damage the battery due to the chips that automatically shut it off. Unless the chip itself is damaged.
That's indeed what the author of the second part was intending to inform everyone.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

craigbailey1986 said:
From the quote and thread I came to the conclusion that trickle charging could not damage the battery due to the chips that automatically shut it off. Unless the chip itself is damaged.
That's indeed what the author of the second part was intending to inform everyone.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and the blind lead the blind... why do people listen to those who don't know what they are talking about instead of the experts?
Because that's what you want to hear.
Let me help you see it...
"A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety."
"Overcharge detection voltage is 3.55V..4.4V with 25mV accuracy."
Is 4.05V higher than 4.4V?

This should hold true however using the batteries internal protection to keep all safe is not a good way to charge. This should be done by the charger and/or software. Battery protection is last resort.
Also, since yet another thread on this has been started, I have to pose another question. Is SBC actually trickle charging the battery or doing a float charge?
From everything I have read on trickle charge the voltage would exceed 4.2v and possibly hit 4.3v for a time. Float charging should take it to 4.2v and then charge at very small rate to keep the battery full. The plating in the battery and damage to the cells, from what I have read, are the result of exceeding 4.3v. With the SBC this doesn't seem to happen and temps stay in range. Ranges are never exceeded, at least not on mine and the other reports I have seen.
Originally I thought the SBC method of charging would damage the battery and switched to a different kernel. But the more I read, the more I am still undecided. We really need a qualified expert to examine this method and make a determination cause this stuff can get complicated.

xHausx said:
and the blind lead the blind... why do people listen to those who don't know what they are talking about instead of the experts?
Because that's what you want to hear.
Let me help you see it...
"A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety."
"Overcharge detection voltage is 3.55V..4.4V with 25mV accuracy."
Is 4.05V higher than 4.4V?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it would be, but monitoring battery charts that I have seen I have not ever once seen anyone voltage read that high after 100%. I'm no expert on battery engineering, but sharing what I have come across. Wouldn't we see a lot more toasted batteries if they were hitting 4.4 volts, over protection.
That said, I have been using SBC since it was released. I charge my phone every night for anywhere from 6-9 hours, constant.
My battery has not exploded, there is no fire, my panties are still hanging on my hips, and I've experienced no battery loss.
Like I said though, I'm no expert just sharing the facts I do have.

barnacles10 said:
That said, I have been using SBC since it was released. I charge my phone every night for anywhere from 6-9 hours, constant.
My battery has not exploded, there is no fire, my panties are still hanging on my hips, and I've experienced no battery loss. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charge via USB or AC charger over night?

deathsled said:
Charge via USB or AC charger over night?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AC - <~ (10 char)

I've been running SBC since he was still testing it and had rough versions, even then he kept it under 4230mV, the highest I've had mine is 4228mV, ive continually charged it for 5 days straight to test long term (AC) with no ill effects, the worst ive had is an episode where the phone wouldn't turn on for a few hours and no charge light when plugged in, I admit it was my fault that caused it because I hadn't cycled the plug after it was plugged in when I rebooted
I still have the same battery, it still lasts just a long, I still use SBC kernels, I feel they are safe, I will report if my battery fails so until then carry a backup if your unsure about using them and enjoy the extra charge

barnacles10 said:
Yes it would be, but monitoring battery charts that I have seen I have not ever once seen anyone voltage read that high after 100%. I'm no expert on battery engineering, but sharing what I have come across. Wouldn't we see a lot more toasted batteries if they were hitting 4.4 volts, over protection.
That said, I have been using SBC since it was released. I charge my phone every night for anywhere from 6-9 hours, constant.
My battery has not exploded, there is no fire, my panties are still hanging on my hips, and I've experienced no battery loss.
Like I said though, I'm no expert just sharing the facts I do have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Over voltage is not the problem since all li-ion batteries have protection from that. It's over saturation that they are saying will damage it.
When it starts running out of lithium to ionize it will begin chemically changing the battery and electro-plating the anode. If it happens too much that anode plating can cause an internal short.

xHausx said:
Over voltage is not the problem since all li-ion batteries have protection from that. It's over saturation that they are saying will damage it.
When it starts running out of lithium to ionize it will begin chemically changing the battery and electro-plating the anode. If it happens too much that anode plating can cause an internal short.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery protection is not full proof on the batteries end though. Just a last resort. The other thread about this has a lot of good info from engineers coming out
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I'm gonnnaa go ahead and uninstall that SBC kernel....

adamantypants said:
I'm gonnnaa go ahead and uninstall that SBC kernel....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

How to undervolt and get better battery life. Please post your results and how to.

Hey all, this is a thread I saw on different forum and think it is would be good for noobs like myself to benefit from. How to undervolt your CPU and also post your Galaxy Note 2 specific results. I have tried these next steps, and so far I'm doing okay (can't give an accurate results on battery life yet). Like I said (I'm not ashamed to say I'm a noob) but if others can throw their two cents in, we can all learn and this thread can be useful. The next part was cut and paste d from other forum. And I deleted the url for the kernel and root
Prerequisites:
1. Must be rooted and recommended kernel
2. Download and install System Tuner
3. Download and install Stability Test
Steps:
1. Open System Tuner and select CPU
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2. Drag the slider shown in the picture to overclock or underclock CPU. In this picture we are overclocking to 1.8ghz
3. Select Voltage at the top to get to CPU voltage settings.
4. Ok, here select the buttons as they are in the picture.
a. Select the Green circled button to save current stock default settings.
b. Select the Yellow circled button 4 times exactly to reduce the millivolts by 100.
Stability Testing:
Now we really should make sure that it can handle it under load right? :silly:
1. Open Stability Test and select CPU+GPU Stability Test.
2. Select Full Details - Proceed.
3. The app will now start stressing your cores. I waited until at least 10 cpu passes before quiting the app...
Cliffnotes:
-By default, your settings will revert back after you restart your phone. You can set them to load at boot, but don't do this unless your absolutely sure that they're stable!
Open System Tuner - CPU - Menu key - Settings - Active Tweaks - Reapply CPU Settings - On Boot Completed
-Whenever i tried to lower the mv more than 100 below stock at 1.8ghz, my phone rebooted
-I am in no way responsible for anything that might happen after performing the above, even if you start your sentence with the word "but"
-here's stock settings in case you need to revert
[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting project but I would think that the average user would not need this as battery life is pretty good. Speaking for myself, I am able to get through the whole day without any issues.
Of course there might be other reasons why someone would want to do this.
Doc

Thanks
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

DocEsq said:
This is an interesting project but I would think that the average user would not need this as battery life is pretty good. Speaking for myself, I am able to get through the whole day without any issues.
Of course there might be other reasons why someone would want to do this.
Doc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from what i've read, undervolting save very little battery time as the processors are pretty efficient anyways. i don't have actual numbers, but i'd guess you'd get a few extra minutes - which some may really need.
it's that freaking gargantuan screen that sucks the most juice. there used to be a mod to undervolt displays. they had it working on an OG galaxy tab. i never really seen it used anywhere else.

I have an international version of galaxy note 2. I'm currently using AllianceROM and Perseus kernel. And my stock voltage is way way higher than yours. Like 1400mV mine, 913mV yours. Can I undervolt my note 2 to same specifications like yours? Thanks.

This is interesting but setcpu when I had it on my last phone worked awesome and was very easy to use.
Sent from my Amazing Galaxy Note 2!

rjisanandres said:
I have an international version of galaxy note 2. I'm currently using AllianceROM and Perseus kernel. And my stock voltage is way way higher than yours. Like 1400mV mine, 913mV yours. Can I undervolt my note 2 to same specifications like yours? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You is 1400 mV on 200 MHz? It's probabky 1400 on 1.6 ghz.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

I also have Perseus kernel overclocked but still have great battery life. Thanks for the tip though might try it and compare the difference just in case.

I agree with DocEsq.. It is interesting indeed, but is it really necessary?
Can you overclock it?

My note 2 seems to be charging forever after undervolting. I'm talking for about 6-7hrs charging time here. What seems to be the problem? I'm using Perseus kernel. TIA!
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

I once conducted a test with my evo3d. I basically ran an amp meter inline with the battery. Measuring the exact power consumption. I dont remember the exact specs, but undervolting and underclocking my phone compared to stock made a very minute difference in actual power consumption. A difference of about 8-15ma. This was during a CPU full load scenario for about 10 seconds. Even loading the CPU with the screen off to take as many variables out as possible it was very little difference. During normal operarion the power consumed was virtually identical.
So the 2 to 3% of the day (overall time) your phone is actually under HEAVY load, it won't make much difference. It did make a performance impact. So not much benefit, just reduced performance.
Now overclocking and/or overvolting did make a larger difference in consumption at high constant load.
Want to ACTUALLY make a large impact on your battery life? Make sure you don't have any apps preventing your phone from sleeping and run the absolute lowest screen brightness you can stand.
YMMV.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

The benefit I found from undervolting isn't better battery life, it's reduced heat which in heavy use provides better performance due to no cpu throttling. I'm running 1800mhz using less battery than 1600mhz and with same temps as stock. Very stable, been running this for a month now at least.

Action B said:
The benefit I found from undervolting isn't better battery life, it's reduced heat which in heavy use provides better performance due to no cpu throttling. I'm running 1800mhz using less battery than 1600mhz and with same temps as stock. Very stable, been running this for a month now at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What app did you use to undervolt?
Sent from my Amazing Galaxy Note 2!

yankees45us said:
What app did you use to undervolt?
Sent from my Amazing Galaxy Note 2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the stweaks app that comes with perseus kernel.. I've undervolted quite a bit and I get better battery life.. Still not quite as good as I had stock, but definitely a lot better for being over clocked.. I just reduce each level to the level below it and run for a few to check stability and keep going from there.. So far I have had no trouble at all with undervolting.. Certainly nothing like I did with my elte.. Here's where I've been for almost a week as well as today's battery results so far with Pandora playing over 3 hours straight and moderate use..
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, just to let you know that there certainly isn't a linear correlation between undervolting and underclocking and power usage. That might have been the case in simpler times, but with modern multi-core microprocessors, you might actually be decreasing battery life by screwing with your clock rate or voltage. Yes, the defaults err on the side of caution, but it's a whole lot of work for little to no gain.
For example, by reducing your phone's clock rate, you might actually be forcing your phone to be spending more time at load; thereby not allowing it to fallback to its sleep state. There is also something called the power wall, where an increase in operating frequency requires an exponential increase in power. However, the reverse is also true. It can be counter-intuitive to think of it this way, so a practical example is how on a 100 mile trip, a 25 mpg sedan saves 4 gallons of gasoline over a 12.5 mpg SUV. However, over the same distance a 50 mpg hybrid saves only 2 gallons over the 25 mpg car. By that same logic, a mythical 100 mpg vehicle would only save 1 gallon of fuel. It's the law of diminishing returns. Then of course, there are the stability issues that you should take into account.
There is a lot that happens behind the scenes regarding power management. Your phone is capable of intelligently scaling it's processors, voltages, and frequencies up or down all based on current and expected demand. There are people who spend a lot more time doing this for a living, and the idea that you can do it better is probably a falsehood. If you want MOAR POWER, by all means overclock/overvolt it (just don't fry it), but trying to get an extra couple minutes of run time is likely a waste of some hard work. It's the software that kills your battery, not the hardware.
Talking about computer architecture can be complicated and boring, but start with searches on "rise time" and "logic level transitions" if you want to want more background.

Action B said:
The benefit I found from undervolting isn't better battery life, it's reduced heat which in heavy use provides better performance due to no cpu throttling. I'm running 1800mhz using less battery than 1600mhz and with same temps as stock. Very stable, been running this for a month now at least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... whenever I'm dling using a torrent client my phone gets a nasty fever and I've gotta set it down somewhere as it will literally make me sweat, lol. I do b there think I'll be undervolting just for that specific circumstance but that is a very interesting concept...
anishannayya said:
Yeah, just to let you know that there certainly isn't a linear correlation between undervolting and underclocking and power usage. That might have been the case in simpler times, but with modern multi-core microprocessors, you might actually be decreasing battery life by screwing with your clock rate or voltage. Yes, the defaults err on the side of caution, but it's a whole lot of work for little to no gain.
For example, by reducing your phone's clock rate, you might actually be forcing your phone to be spending more time at load; thereby not allowing it to fallback to its sleep state. There is also something called the power wall, where an increase in operating frequency requires an exponential increase in power. However, the reverse is also true. It can be counter-intuitive to think of it this way, so a practical example is how on a 100 mile trip, a 25 mpg sedan saves 4 gallons of gasoline over a 12.5 mpg SUV. However, over the same distance a 50 mpg hybrid saves only 2 gallons over the 25 mpg car. By that same logic, a mythical 100 mpg vehicle would only save 1 gallon of fuel. It's the law of diminishing returns. Then of course, there are the stability issues that you should take into account.
There is a lot that happens behind the scenes regarding power management. Your phone is capable of intelligently scaling it's processors, voltages, and frequencies up or down all based on current and expected demand. There are people who spend a lot more time doing this for a living, and the idea that you can do it better is probably a falsehood. If you want MOAR POWER, by all means overclock/overvolt it (just don't fry it), but trying to get an extra couple minutes of run time is likely a waste of some hard work. It's the software that kills your battery, not the hardware.
Talking about computer architecture can be complicated and boring, but start with searches on "rise time" and "logic level transitions" if you want to want more background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like the way you put that. Good analogies there it just seems like the other day that undervolting was the hip thing to do. Technology just moves at such a wonderful pace though. Just one little FYI though, since i do like you analogy i would like to point out that the law of diminishing returns actually refers to something else entirely. I know, I know, nitpicking, but it's just that everyone is always off the mark with that one and, well I guess I'm just an anal ahole (and an economics major, ,which I guess just overall makes me an a hole, ,lol)

If you have ever pulled apart a laptop and saw how much thermal paste the engineers at the factory "designed" for their to be on there, or seen the air/fuel ratio most cars roll off the lot with, or ever replaced an intake in a vehicle with a high performance unit I'm not sure you would feel the same way about you yourself not being to do a better job.
I get the point, and I believe often there is validity to that point, but sometime things just aren't that simple. This is where power gains come from in tuning a car (which i do). This is where efficiency is raised by removing restrictive components in a vehicle (intake, exhaust, etc) and where cooling performance is increased on a CPU with the proper application of a quality thermal paste.
Whenever time is money, and you are deciding between your bottom line and something that works and something that works as well as it can, shortcuts are made and corners are cut. Perhaps they could have spent another 200 hours for the team to absolutely optimize the processor for each device, but the cost would have been an additional $20,000 dollars. This is not always the case, but with processors I think it is. I will undervolt everytime and I do take objective measures for battery and I agree gains are relatively small. For cooling, I found the difference to be very significant at 1800, mhzI didn't check at 1600mhz, however. I can run a full Antutu benchmark as much as I want at room temperature and never exceed the throttling point (70 C if i remember correctly). Now, I am in no way saying these are facts, these are opinions, so I could be wrong of course.
Psychotic-Cerebellum said:
Interesting... whenever I'm dling using a torrent client my phone gets a nasty fever and I've gotta set it down somewhere as it will literally make me sweat, lol. I do b there think I'll be undervolting just for that specific circumstance but that is a very interesting concept...
Like the way you put that. Good analogies there it just seems like the other day that undervolting was the hip thing to do. Technology just moves at such a wonderful pace though. Just one little FYI though, since i do like you analogy i would like to point out that the law of diminishing returns actually refers to something else entirely. I know, I know, nitpicking, but it's just that everyone is always off the mark with that one and, well I guess I'm just an anal ahole (and an economics major, ,which I guess just overall makes me an a hole, ,lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The TIM wasn't put on there by the engineers who designed the chips; they are put there by workers being paid next to nothing.
Your phone doesn't have a CPU, it doesn't even use thermal paste; it's usually just a rubber contact patch and passive heat dissipation. This actually brings another point where overclocking can sometimes reduce performance due to throttling by thermal constraints (why our phone has such a low GPU rate than what it is capable of in other phones with better thermal envelopes).
You aren't replacing the SoC, you are changing the software that determines how to set the voltage/clock multiplier. The car analogy isn't valid.
And I stand corrected regarding the Law of Diminishing Returns; never paid attention in macro-econ. I think was because my prof. was more interested in forcing his political ideology upon us than actually teaching the subject. :silly:
EDIT: Keep in mind, the engineers rarely get what they want. The product the consumer ends up getting is usually dictated through a collaboration of what the business and marketing teams want. The engineer might request a large cooler clamp with a perfectly lapped surface and a carbon-based TIM. In reality, the consumer gets a dinky fan with melt-on TIM and retention springs. Money talks.

anishannayya said:
The TIM wasn't put on there by the engineers who designed the chips; they are put there by workers being paid next to nothing.
Your phone doesn't have a CPU, it doesn't even use thermal paste; it's usually just a rubber contact patch and passive heat dissipation. This actually brings another point where overclocking can sometimes reduce performance due to throttling by thermal constraints (why our phone has such a low GPU rate than what it is capable of in other phones with better thermal envelopes).
You aren't replacing the SoC, you are changing the software that determines how to set the voltage/clock multiplier. The car analogy isn't valid.
And I stand corrected regarding the Law of Diminishing Returns; never paid attention in macro-econ. I think was because my prof. was more interested in forcing his political ideology upon us than actually teaching the subject. :silly:
EDIT: Keep in mind, the engineers rarely get what they want. The product the consumer ends up getting is usually dictated through a collaboration of what the business and marketing teams want. The engineer might request a large cooler clamp with a perfectly lapped surface and a carbon-based TIM. In reality, the consumer gets a dinky fan with melt-on TIM and retention springs. Money talks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The voltages are set by an engineer, that is what I was referring to.
2. The CPU thing was an analogy as was the car. Not a direct comparison. The analogy is referring to how there is set fuel and timing tables just like there is set voltage tables, both might not be the most efficient from the factory, tweaking them can improve things. How is this completely not valid?

2 different chargers and 2 different battery life???

So I have the wireless charging mod and I have several wireless chargers “All the same brand and model” I mostly only use two. The one beside my bed and the one at work. I know this is going to sound crazy but when I use the charger beside my bed and charge to %100 the battery life is not nearly as long. It is enough to be VERY noticeable I have tested and compared like 6 times. Charging on both to 100% and just let the phone sit for an hour and when it is charged by the one beside my bed it drains about 20% faster. Can a charger effect battery life in this way????

Based on my experiences... yes!

enetec said:
Based on my experiences... yes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something

X_man. said:
I've never had that happen till now. I wonder if that particular charger is going bad or something
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?

Uzephi said:
Experiment... swap the chargers? bring the work one home and vice versa? maybe different mains or "dirty mains" could be the culprit? see if the issue follows the charger or area?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.

X_man. said:
Great idea! I'll do that next week and post what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any time. I personally ran into that. It wasn't 20% more like 5% (average 3hr drain on my old Rezound was 2hrs and 45mins when charged from work. It was due to ingress on my work's lines that wasn't there at home. We had little oddities with some PC's until we found the UPS for our server was causing noise on our circuits).

This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).

Some_Donkus said:
This is absolutely normal. I build custom vape systems, some on li-poly Batts, some on li-ion. In both cases, charge rate -can- drastically affect charge effectiveness.
Most of this in your case likely has to do with thermal reads. Remember, not only is your phone and charger loaded with chips to be smart and safe about the charge, the battery (and sometimes individual cells within it) are also microchipped. Wireless charging creates a lot of heat. Should any one of the three components recognize this heat as excessive, the voltage will drop. I _believe_ this is most relevant during the end of "saturation" phase during charging, because if the battery says "no" during this phase, or anytime after (during completion/final) , the charger's subsequent "topping-charge" will also be denied. This kind of results in cycle of the charger saying "take it!" , The battery saying "no", dropping the voltage, the charger seeing the drop and expecting it to need a top-off and immediately trying to push again, repeat. The reason you're seeing the difference is because the charger is getting it's numbers from current output from the battery. The battery can drop down to zero current when overheated to prevent thermal rail? From occurring, which the charger then translates " 0 current must mean full".
That's one part of the difference, and not necessarily what is occurring... The other part has to do with manufacturing intent. Most USB 3.1/c power supplies are actually pushing out the maximum amperage and thus has a huge stage-1 charging state, with a minimum stage-2 (saturation) charging state. This basically translates into , your charger and phone are both lying when you rapid charge.
I'm sure I'm missing some facets or misrepresenting them here as I can't remember all the damn physics, but short story is: for absolute saturation, battery life, battery runtime, and safety... Charge at the same rate as battery discharge.
Edit: also what Uzephi mentioned about dirty power is also relevant. When power factors are not near 1.0 (1:1, meaning everything drawn is used, and everything requested is given), bad sh*t happens. This actually relates to the physical wave (sinusoidal) of electricity. All the anomalies are probably listed somewhere by some physicist, but suffice to say, there's a lot of possibilities, none of them "good" when out-of-phase power factors occur. This is why sensitive equipment almost always gets run through a power conditioner. The more sensitive and volatile the system, the more aggressive the conditioner needs to be (hence massive amplifiers for sound systems like the ones I use in my work need $200 glorified power strips).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some very good points! Doesn't seem quite as strange now LOL Thanks!

@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?

enetec said:
@Some_Donkus than for your complete explanation...
I've found even "about same rate" chargers (measured on phones...) often differs in heating battery: on my old Moto Z, the OnePlus X charger and the Samsung Galaxy Tab one both charged my phone (quite fast...), BUT the first heated it A LOT more, while the second hot A LOT itself!!
I think it's related to components quality too...
What I don't undestand well is why the Incipio MotoMod battery, which charge the phone at quite low rate, is able to heat it more than fast chargers....!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without knowing the specific charge voltage and stage setup of the individual batteries it's tough to speculate. One thing that comes in mind relates back to the power factors I was speaking of. It might actually be a high quality device that just has a lot of extra MOSFET + capacitors built in. These are used in order to "clean and manage" power on the fly. Capacitors are used to provide extra little bumps of discharge / supply when the battery cells themselves can't necessarily output enough mA/amp in a peak. MOSFETs do the opposite, providing a safe gateway for extra unused power either coming into the device from the battery, or from outside power to charging battery...
Both of these little guys basically are giant heat retainers (MOSFETs actually usually have heatsinks pasted to them, even the micro sized ones used in small devices)....
Just a thought.

Some_Donkus said:
...
Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!

enetec said:
Well, it surely could be but two weird things still happen with Incipio battery MOD (and, they say, NOT with the new Turbo Power which do fast charging instead! ):
- the overheat seems to be coming from the phone and not from the battery MOD...
- the Incipio battery MOD I have adds wireless charging too to the phone. What it's weird is that wireless charging phone (by the same rear connector on the phone) seems to overheat it less than using battery to charge it... (and battery charge rate is a bit lower...).
I think it could be related from the fact that battery MOD has probably to raise his voltage to charge phone... but strangely this overheats more phone than battery...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhh, I see what you're saying...
Okay well, from what I understand, the Incipio Wireless mod actually charges the phone's battery first, THEN the pack within the mod. By default, magnetic induction (wireless charging method) actually will charge everything and anything within the field simultaneously.. but.. what I assume the incipio mod does is this....
Wireless charger sends out induction wave > (Induction wave charges both internal battery and mod for a moment) > Incipio mod get's a mV current reading from phone's internal battery > If internal phone battery mV current is ≠ 0, Incipio mod uses MOSFET's to gate-drain incoming charge from wireless for X amount of time (and possibly send charge to internal battery via connectors) + > induction wave continues to charge internal phone battery > Incipio takes another mV current reading from phone battery to see if it's full >>>
Cycle continues until Incipio gets mV current reading = 0, at which point it stops using gate-drains and accepts induction wave charge.
^^^ -IF- that's accurate, then it would mean that the Incipio mod is passing it's charge into the phone battery (received from induction wave) at the same time that the internal phone battery is receiving the induction wave from pad... So that internal battery is receiving a shiz-load of joose quickly...
again, pure speculation.... but it would make sense...

Question What's the typical charging speed for Poco F3?

So I charge my phone today from 32% to 100% in 1 hour and it seems like from the videos other guys get a 0-100 charge for that time. So I was thinking that either I have slower because I am using a UK-to-EU adapter for my charger (got it from UK) or that this speed is the typical one. What's your speed guys?

I like to charge my phone slowly (less than 10W - 3-5H charge) overnight which helps improve battery life.
More info here : https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
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1C charge means 1 hour charge from ~0 to 100%.
2C charge means 30 min charge.. Why would you want to do that to your battery (half capacity at 500 recharges)?
Overnight at C/3 to C/5 does great things for the longevity.

The state of the phone also matters. Wifi, bluetooth, mobile data, music, video, apps, brightness, photo, camera, sensor, power save, battery temperature, surrounding climate, ... etc.
Adapters may also have their maximum output capped. Check on it's spec.

panoz said:
I like to charge my phone slowly (less than 10W - 3-5H charge) overnight which helps improve battery life.
More info here : https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
View attachment 5332861
1C charge means 1 hour charge from ~0 to 100%.
2C charge means 30 min charge.. Why would you want to do that to your battery (half capacity at 500 recharges)?
Overnight at C/3 to C/5 does great things for the longevity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you achieve this?

pl1992aw said:
The state of the phone also matters. Wifi, bluetooth, mobile data, music, video, apps, brightness, photo, camera, sensor, power save, battery temperature, surrounding climate, ... etc.
Adapters may also have their maximum output capped. Check on it's spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The adapter doesn't have any specs unfortunately. I just bought a EU charger from Aliexpress. Hopefully it charges faster.

stavrosbin said:
How do you achieve this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root with Magisk and use Advanced Charging Controller (acc) module.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/advanced-charging-controller-acc.3668427/
Or use old USB charger with the ampere lower, like 2.0A or lower.
That is achieved with slower charging.
PC USB socket most likely will charge VERY slow, to the point that you want it to charge faster.

stavrosbin said:
The adapter doesn't have any specs unfortunately. I just bought a EU charger from Aliexpress. Hopefully it charges faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will likely need to buy chargers made by Xiaomi if you want even faster charging.
Some technologies will need to match if you want them work at fullest.

pl1992aw said:
Root with Magisk and use Advanced Charging Controller (acc) module.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/advanced-charging-controller-acc.3668427/
Or use old USB charger with the ampere lower, like 2.0A or lower.
That is achieved with slower charging.
PC USB socket most likely will charge VERY slow, to the point that you want it to charge faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I had this magisk module on my Oneplus 5T. Guess I will just download that and its app. Do I need to do anything to make it work like you are saying? I thought it only regulated charging speed for V and temperature.

pl1992aw said:
You will likely need to buy chargers made by Xiaomi if you want even faster charging.
Some technologies will need to match if you want them work at fullest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this charger is supposed to be legit. Will wait and see when I get it.

Just like the Redmi Note 10 Pro and Poco X3 Pro, among other Xiaomi phones, the Poco F3 battery supports 33W Mi Fast charging and the phone ships with a 33W adapter and a 3A-rated cable.

stavrosbin said:
Oh I had this magisk module on my Oneplus 5T. Guess I will just download that and its app. Do I need to do anything to make it work like you are saying? I thought it only regulated charging speed for V and temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has the ability to control and lower the current (unit in mAh default). To make the current controled, you apply the set current and then reboot.
You can read the README in github for more info.
You have to test it though, I can't.
Use app Ampere to confirm the charging speed.

stavrosbin said:
So I charge my phone today from 32% to 100% in 1 hour and it seems like from the videos other guys get a 0-100 charge for that time. So I was thinking that either I have slower because I am using a UK-to-EU adapter for my charger (got it from UK) or that this speed is the typical one. What's your speed guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have successfully charged my device from 0-100 in 18 minutes record. But that fried my battery within 15 days.

Had replied some similar questions.
Some info may be useful to read:
So what is the best android charging habit...?
So I bought POCO X3 Pro earlier this month...So I play games on it mainly and the question is which kind of charging habit is better? 1.Frequently charging to make the percentage between 50%-100% 2.Charge it to 80-90 and try not make to make it...
forum.xda-developers.com

stavrosbin said:
How do you achieve this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As correctly said by pl1992aw, I use an old 1A adapter that goes from 20% to 100% in under 5 hours.
With the same strategy my Tab Note 10.1 (not 2014) still has a working battery although it's of no use anymore..

pl1992aw said:
It has the ability to control and lower the current (unit in mAh default). To make the current controled, you apply the set current and then reboot.
You can read the README in github for more info.
You have to test it though, I can't.
Use app Ampere to confirm the charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks a lot man

Saazmusic said:
I have successfully charged my device from 0-100 in 18 minutes record. But that fried my battery within 15 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha that's really overkill I don't want this kind of treatment.

Also charging speed changes based on battery percentage to make battery last longer

The idea with a low power charger to extend the battery life is really nice, cause i usually charge my phone over night and don't want to stress my battery for nothing.

stavrosbin said:
Hahaha that's really overkill I don't want this kind of treatment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah nobody should want this. I used to mess in the kernel & alter the charge controlling voltage & current values. Soon I realised and concluded that charging a lithium battery with high voltages(9v fast charging) or high current significantly degrades the life of the battery. In addition, charging the battery upto 80% increases the life of battery by 4x in comparison to charging it upto 100%. Phone brands play a trick on us keeping their planned obsolescence marketing in their hands. Now I happily charge my phone with old 1 amp charger. It does slow but the battery wear data is really satisfying.

Saazmusic said:
Yeah nobody should want this. I used to mess in the kernel & alter the charge controlling voltage & current values. Soon I realised and concluded that charging a lithium battery with high voltages(9v fast charging) or high current significantly degrades the life of the battery. In addition, charging the battery upto 80% increases the life of battery by 4x in comparison to charging it upto 100%. Phone brands play a trick on us keeping their planned obsolescence marketing in their hands. Now I happily charge my phone with old 1 amp charger. It does slow but the battery wear data is really satisfying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add, fast charge is for convenience and emergency eg. forgot to charge at night and need to rush in the morning.