Related
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
The demo shown was using non-final build of the OS.
Something like BETA version, not yet final version.
There you would expect: bugs, glitch, errors, etc.
But still, it is quite impressive.
We can only judge the "perfectness" of the OS later when it has been "OFFICIALLY" released.
chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
who's to say it needs all 1GHz? i think they're doing a great thing by setting that as minimum. our devices would be up to date much longer or at least it will feel that way. It's a good sign for those who don't like upgrading every year, no?
Besides, the Nexus One is 1ghz.... Supersonic will probably be 1ghz..... Everything will be 1ghz by the time wp7 comes out, if not more.
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said. It's set because it's very doable.. at the end of this year, which manufacturer would expect a new device to be competitive using an old processor? Setting a bare minimum as the minimum would mean that you have 7 Series phones which perform much crappier than others.. a situation they want to avoid.
Plus it's mobile XBox.
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
gogol said:
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the new qualcomm 1.5 ghz chip is not meant for mobile devices till now it is used for mini notebooks the one which will be avaliable for devices is the 1.3 ghz version same specifications as the 1ghz processor but with 45 nm technology( uses less power ) same graphics performance but with 300 mhz over clock speed nearly same performance but less power consumption
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think 1ghz is enough for a mobile os (the win xp runs on 500mhz processor and on 128 of ram )
It's not all about the clock rate. An ARMv7 processor at 500MHz is about twice as fast as an ARMv6 processor at the same clock speed.
(that's why the iPhone 3GS is so much faster than the iPhone 3G, despite only having 200Mhz more)
Windows XP doesn't run on ARM processors at all.
freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm sure they could, but Microsoft wants there to be very high minimum specs that developers can expect so that all apps can take advantage of the hardware to its full extent. An example would be the way WinMo apps are now. Most 3D apps aren't very good because the minimum of what developers can expect in a device isn't very high; thus, they have have to make it use as little resources as possible.
Based on what I'm hearing most current 6.X phones will be unsupported unless they pack a Dragoon. I hope the scorpion CPU is used in a win7 phone.
RustyGrom said:
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I would agree this is their plan as well. Personally, I would like to have phone stay pretty current within the 2 year contract I have to sign to get one at a fair price....
Insurance is mandatory on this one...
Ignore this post
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
freyberry said:
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any CPU can be underclocked. The "normal" speed for Snapdragons is 1ghz.
Qualcomm specifically mentioned that the Snapdragon had been chosen for WP7.
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
gogol said:
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said they're providing the drivers for these phones, I think
EDIT: Never mind.
Does the new hardware call for a graphics processor?
I know that Steve Jobs never sells a piece of hardware without a dedicated graphics processor, such as in the iPhone (PowerVR MBX-Lite graphics processor), or the Macbook (NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT).
In windows machines, it is always an after-thought.
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
It just needs to be utilized with good drivers.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
RustyGrom said:
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
chiks19018 said:
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What part of WP7 is like WM6? It's entirely different. Microsoft had practically no hardware requirements before, now they're being super strict. Gaming is a huge portion of their focus. We should know more next week at GDC. Besides, Snapdragon includes full 3d acceleration. There's no need for a discrete graphics chip as far as I'm aware.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drivers. MS isn't giving the OEMs as much control over the lower level OS and is developing all of the drivers themselves. No more will we have the problem of HTC deciding that 3d drivers aren't needed.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be sick if they annouce the msm8xxx being required and that's why HD2 isn't supported. I'd take that trade off.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Wishmaster89 said:
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Shasarak said:
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always sounded to me like they just picked one to launch with and will support others going forward. Writing drivers and testing other platforms at this point doesn't really give a good bang for the buck.
We should know on the 10th (the first GDC windows phone sessions). I would think the graphics capability would be something they would share there. But then again, they've shown an astounding ability to just say "wait for MIX" so far so they very well could keep that up.
Developing Games for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Michael Klucher
Time: 1:15-2:15pm
The future of Windows Phone has never looked better. With the release of Windows Phone 7 Series, game developers will be able to create amazing content rapidly. This talk outlines the basic framework for games, presents Windows Phone 7 Series device characteristics, and provides and overview of game development on the phone.
High Performance 3D Games on Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Tomas Vykruta & Shawn Hargreaves
Time: 2:30-3:30pm
Windows Phone 7 Series is a highly capable platform for game development. This talk covers 3D game development on Windows Phone 7 Series with an emphasis on the unique characteristics of the platform. The talk also focuses on optimizing high-performance games for the platform, to help developers squeeze out every last drop of performance.
Development and Debugging Tools for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Cullen Waters
Time: 3:45pm-4:45pm
This talk discusses the basic tools available to game developers on Windows Phone 7 Series, including debugging, emulation, and performance tools. The talk places special emphasis on best practices for performance and profiling tools that can be used to optimize games for Windows Phone 7 Series.
Bringing the Best of Xbox LIVE to Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Adam Schaeffer
Time: 5:00-6:00pm
The Xbox LIVE service is going mobile! With Windows Phone 7 Series, core features such as Achievements, Leaderboards, and game invites will be available to games on Windows Phone 7 Series devices. This talk covers the basics of the services available and how they can be used to enable core Xbox LIVE functionality in games. In addition, this talk will present best practices for connecting Windows Phone 7 Series games to back-end servers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine that they want WP7 to be as smooth and hitch-free as possible to start out with. That means not allowing for any unknown variables such as different hardware, drivers, software.
It's the same for Iphone or any of the console game machines. It's one piece of hardware that is always the same making it easier to plan things for and develop things for. Which ends up meaning a higher perception of quality from the consumers due to lack of glitches and crashes.
Hence Apple's commercials saying how often PCs crash and stuff. They crash because PCs have way more variables as far as hardware and drivers than Macs have making many more incompatibilities.
Microsoft will probably allow other hardware once WP7 has a good name going in the consumers eyes.
Shasarak said:
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. QSD8672 is targeted at smartbooks but msm8xxx is designed to power both smarphones and smartbooks. Besides OMAP4 and tegra2 are powerful but still we can expect smartphones based on those platforms next year.
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think so too. More hardware platforms mean more work to do. So I think that support for other hardware platforms will come after they'll finish V1 of WP7 - this way they will just have to port complete full OS from snapdragon to other platform.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my bad. I thought snapdragon is a processor.
The following article is not even remotely related to E4GT (or Samsung for that matter) but I found it very interesting... There's a strong possibility of Intel dominating all mobile processors starting 2014 - 2015 ...
http://liliputing.com/2012/04/intel-pushes-atom-chip-for-android-devices.html
EDIT: I just noticed that the website (or maybe the user) removed the second post that I copied below.
You can skip the actual article, but read the comments (from user CyberGusa) :
While as for what advantages Intel can start to offer, it's what Chippy from UMPCPortal would call High Dynamic Range Computing (HDRC). Unlike ARM, Intel is fully capable of scaling from the mobile range to the full desktop range.
This will be especially true if Windows 8 is successful, as x86 can offer legacy support where ARM can't, and can provide the higher range performance that ARM is still many years away from being able to provide as their high end next gen offerings will only rival the present gen Intel ATOMs.
MS in particular is patenting a way to easily switch between CPU's when docking. So could make a Windows system literally scale from mobile to laptop and even desktop by just docking it.
The closest ARM based devices will get to this scaling is switching from a ARM to higher end Intel or AMD chip when docked but this will also involve switching from a mobile OS to a desktop one to fully take advantage of the switch.
Though Google is making progress towards making Android a more desktop friendly OS, like with Webtop and similar UI optimizations that take over when docked that would allow Android to take advantage of such scaling but would still be more limited than switching to a true desktop OS that isn't designed with the limits that a mobile OS will have to deal with no matter how the UI is altered and optimized,
Failure of Windows 8 though could well give ARM the advantage.
Intel though is hedging its bets with support for Android and of course the Tizen project. They already bought a company last year that provides them the option to easily switch between two OS instantly, without rebooting.
While they are compensating for what advantages ARM has over them by keeping ahead of the manufacturing shrink curve by at least a year.
So while ARM is heading towards 32 and 28nm productions, Intel is heading toward 22nm and that combined with the architectural updates could potentially start giving Intel the edge.
Mind also that there have been problems with the 28nm production and Intel has strategically not helped ARM with this issue. So time table for many gives them limited time for market penetration before Intel will be able to come out with their own 22nm chips and 14nm is scheduled for 2014.
Also consider that it's not the general consumer market at stake here but also the embedded and server markets, which could give Intel more of a advantage considering that x86 hardware can run pretty much any OS but ARM is still limited to OS already optimized for it.
While ARM is also depending on Windows 8 being a success to provide it a mainstream desktop OS to provide the ability to start competing in the traditional PC markets, and thus would also be negatively effected if Windows 8 fails.
So while ARM is looking good for the rest of this year, it remains to be seen if that will remain true next year and Intel should never be underestimated.
More comments from the same user (CyberGusa):
Right now Intel only has dual core in their higher end ATOM lineup and up to 8 cores for the server market, neither of which are competing with ARM yet.
The upcoming dual core Medfield is mainly just planned for the Tablet market and shouldn't effect the Smart Phone market.
So the main advantage of ARM solutions right now is that they're much more mainstream for the mobile market, with Intel only beginning to compete for the first time. Much like how Nvidia when they first introduced the Tegra and shows slow beginnings are not indicative of how they will do in a year or two.
While as already mentioned the Intel ATOM's are still using pretty much the same architecture as when it was first introduced to the market in 2008. This is like comparing the Cortex A15 to the older Cortex A8 based ARM chips and having the Cortex A8 solution still holds its own.
So having it even come in the same ball park is actually a testament to how much ARM still has to catch up for the higher performance range they're only now entering.
Mind beating the ATOM isn't really hard, as that's the bottom of Intel's chip offerings, with the Core i-Series offering multiples times better performance that ARM is still years away from even getting close to.
While the next gen ATOM's coming out next year are Intel's equivalent of a A15 update to the ATOM. Introducing many of the technology they developed for Ivy Bridge to the ATOM.
Like Intel's Tri-Gate Transistors, a HD 4000 based GMA, putting the entire lineup under SoC, offering a wider range of processor configurations, finally adding Out Of Order Processing to the ATOM, among many other improvements.
While ARM manufacturers are having problems, the delay in moving to 28nm being the most outstanding right now, which is why many are still opting for 32nm. Especially those who have yet to deal with the increased problem of power leakage as they continue to shrink the FAB.
Even Apple is still on 45nm with their latest iPad and had to increase the battery size by 70% to compensate for the increased power consumption of the retina display and the quad core GPU's requires.
So they may up their game but it's going to get harder for them here on out as ARM was designed for low power and low performance and need time to evolve to be able to apply itself to higher end applications.
While Intel already dominates the higher end and just wants to start penetrating into the lower end and that's going to be arguably easier for them to do than for ARM to keep on increasing its performance.
Mind, ARM is still a 32bit architecture and only recently introduced designs for 64bit. This means they're still years away from going fully 64bit and for now we're only going to see enhancements like 64bit memory management.
While it's not easy to continue providing increasing performance and still keep costs and power consumption low. Also ARM customizations has the down side of increased hardware fragmentation.
So it's not like Intel doesn't stand a chance, it's just going to take awhile to see if they can really start competing in the mobile market or have to stay in the higher end PC market.
Comment as you see fit, and keep in mind these are just opinions, not facts !!!
First...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Even if Intel is not on top by then they will make sure the bar is set high. Good read.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Good read. If Intel is truly interested in advancing the mobile field, I can see them doing big things in the future. At the very least, the competition they bring to the market will keep everyone else on their toes.
Transmission sent from a Galaxy S II, CODENAME style.
intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer
Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.
Oh and Intel is known for making low battery consumption processors. Can't wait for that by them making small chips only nanometers big
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
kc_exactly said:
Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !
peryp9 said:
In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since when Intel has Black Edition CPU?
And about locking out other video card vendors from the system, are you sure you know what you talking about?
locoboi187 said:
intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel can school everyone else on microprocessor development, manufacturing, budget, evolution...but...x86 is known power hungry. I'm sure if they keep reducing their process (which they will) they can get x86 to match arm, energy consumption wise. But, on the same token, ARM will (WILL) get developed to a point where they will match x86 performance wise.
It's anybodies race. It's early (yes, very early) in the mobile computing game. Intel could very well pull through with it's very refined architecture....that's also regarded as crufty as fnck. The ARM architecture could very well also be refined to the point where they get as many operations per clock...both neck-and-neck on power efficiency.
All said, I'm both excited and doubtful in intel's ability. Microsoft is becoming irrelevant at an amazing speed...perhaps it's intel's turn as well. Wintel? Armdroid? A mix of the two?
Exciting times. Bring on the competition.
Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xeon server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. They did not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did, they wouldn't pounce like they did on amd... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..
lilotimz said:
Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xenon's server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones , which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which did passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. Not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel Black Edition ... Intel Extreme Edition ... the idea was "top of the line". Look at the point I'm trying to make, not the wrong words I used.
Intel may claim that their integrated graphics are great for many thing, but look at the larger picture... pay premium dollar for the ability to use the video card of your choice !!
EDIT: The cheapest processor comes with integrated graphics, while the most expensive one comes without it. I remember when I bought my laptop a few years back (1st generation Intel i5). I was reading about Intel not allowing manufacturers to put other cards in order to bypass the integrated one. In the end, I bought this Intel i5 laptop with NVidia GeForce 325M with Optimus. Check to see how Optimus works with Intel's integrated card and you'll understand what I meant in my previous post.
In the end, the main point I'm trying to get across, is that Intel's products are great (except their video cards) but their marketing scheme will hurt the consumers if they take control of the mobile processor.
All the info by the commenter not withstanding, I have a hard time taking anyone who uses "effect" instead of "affect" seriously.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I'm loving my yoga 11, however at times I just feel that Windows 8 RT slows down especially when multi-tasking. Since our Tegra's are clocked at 1.3Ghz and the same Chip in android devices runs at 1.5, with overclocked kernels available to run at 1.8-2.0Ghz, what are the chances we see this type of hack/development come to windows 8 RT? Im not sure the security obstacles that would present, but haven't seen much on this to even know if someone has looked into this or actively working on method to do so.
Thanks!
I have been thinking about this as well. Im sure it can be done, but by who? thats the question. Im sure we can easily squeeze some more power out of our device. Good luck to whoever spearheads this
ej_424 said:
I'm loving my yoga 11, however at times I just feel that Windows 8 RT slows down especially when multi-tasking. Since our Tegra's are clocked at 1.3Ghz and the same Chip in android devices runs at 1.5, with overclocked kernels available to run at 1.8-2.0Ghz, what are the chances we see this type of hack/development come to windows 8 RT? Im not sure the security obstacles that would present, but haven't seen much on this to even know if someone has looked into this or actively working on method to do so.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tegra isnt overclocked to 1.5 in android devices. There are actually 3 models of the Tegra 3 at different clock speeds. The one used in the RT is the lowest model (1.2GHz) overclocked to 1.3GHz already. I believe the other models are 1.4 and 1.6 with a few ROMs adding about 100MHz overclock as needed. 2ghz seems extreme though.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
The tegra isnt overclocked to 1.5 in android devices. There are actually 3 models of the Tegra 3 at different clock speeds. The one used in the RT is the lowest model (1.2GHz) overclocked to 1.3GHz already. I believe the other models are 1.4 and 1.6 with a few ROMs adding about 100MHz overclock as needed. 2ghz seems extreme though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've thought about this as well but have always been too scared to ask. Windows is obviously not foreign to processor scaling and power management, perhaps there's a way to make a custom power plan or something. Maybe the way to approach overlooking is not 'like' Android, but 'like' regular old windows. I have no idea and am a noob, but I thought I'd just toss that out there.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
The tegra isnt overclocked to 1.5 in android devices. There are actually 3 models of the Tegra 3 at different clock speeds. The one used in the RT is the lowest model (1.2GHz) overclocked to 1.3GHz already. I believe the other models are 1.4 and 1.6 with a few ROMs adding about 100MHz overclock as needed. 2ghz seems extreme though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html
Its support for Windows RT is still under development. It isn't overclocked on the Surface RT/Vivo Tab but underclocked to compensate for the missing support for the fifth battery saver core.
We should expect the performance and battery to get better as they iron this out :laugh:
Actually, for those who have gotten Surface RT since launch... I bet most of you have already experience better performance after each monthly firmware update
LastBattle said:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html
Its support for Windows RT is still under development. It isn't overclocked on the Surface RT/Vivo Tab but underclocked to compensate for the missing support for the fifth battery saver core.
We should expect the performance and battery to get better as they iron this out :laugh:
Actually, for those who have gotten Surface RT since launch... I bet most of you have already experience better performance after each monthly firmware update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a very good news indeed and we should then probably be able to run the Tablet at 1.6Ghz Quad core instead of the actual 1.3Ghz quad core :good:
LastBattle said:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html
Its support for Windows RT is still under development. It isn't overclocked on the Surface RT/Vivo Tab but underclocked to compensate for the missing support for the fifth battery saver core.
We should expect the performance and battery to get better as they iron this out :laugh:
Actually, for those who have gotten Surface RT since launch... I bet most of you have already experience better performance after each monthly firmware update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No where in that link does it mention it being underclocked. The 1.4ghz single core/1.3 quad core is a feature of the entire tegra product line, not jsut the surface RT.
It does mention that the 5th battery saver core doesnt work on windows RT though, that will help.
Interesting: There is a "~MHz" key in regedit under local machine -> Hardware -> Description -> System -> Central processor -> 0, 1, 2, or 3. It is set to 1300, but changing it doesn't do anything and it reverts upon reboot.
Even if we can't overclock this thing, is there a way to resurrect the "High Performance" power plan that disappeared in RT? One that would set the CPU to 100% by default, all the time?
Any update or more info on this?
bigsnack said:
Any update or more info on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
hope to see a 'high performance' feature on the pwr mgnment as well, especially when we are hooking up RT onto the power line and battery life is not so much of an issue in this case.
Rogerngks said:
hope to see a 'high performance' feature on the pwr mgnment as well, especially when we are hooking up RT onto the power line and battery life is not so much of an issue in this case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iirc, you can still set your cpu states through powercfg in the command line. I might be wrong though.
Is the 5th power saving core just disabled or not present on our hardware?
bigsnack said:
Is the 5th power saving core just disabled or not present on our hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to NVidia's website, Tegra 3 for RT is "still under development." (http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html) It also lists it as only being quad-core on Windows 8 devices.
I had personally reeealy hoped that one of the highlights for RT 8.1 was going to be reworked support for the 5th core, bringing performance and battery life improvements. Alas, it was not to be.
jtg007 said:
According to NVidia's website, Tegra 3 for RT is "still under development." (http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-3-processor.html) It also lists it as only being quad-core on Windows 8 devices.
I had personally reeealy hoped that one of the highlights for RT 8.1 was going to be reworked support for the 5th core, bringing performance and battery life improvements. Alas, it was not to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant see how the 5th core would bring a performance improvement. The system cannot use the 5th core as an actual 5th core, it shuts most of the other cores down to sleep when it needs the 5th which is also an incredibly low performance core, its just for power saving really, or simply hopping around the UI and checking your email, NVidia claim that android can also play video while running purely on the 5th core although this never happened on my Nexus 7 without any other apps running, it carried on running using 1 of the main cores for that.
Would definitely boost the battery life though and thats not something to be ignored. But there are few times where that 5th core really comes into its own, perhaps it just wasn't worth the time for MS to add companion core support to windows RT 8.1 when not all RT tablets use the tegra.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I cant see how the 5th core would bring a performance improvement. The system cannot use the 5th core as an actual 5th core, it shuts most of the other cores down to sleep when it needs the 5th which is also an incredibly low performance core, its just for power saving really, or simply hopping around the UI and checking your email, NVidia claim that android can also play video while running purely on the 5th core although this never happened on my Nexus 7 without any other apps running, it carried on running using 1 of the main cores for that.
Would definitely boost the battery life though and thats not something to be ignored. But there are few times where that 5th core really comes into its own, perhaps it just wasn't worth the time for MS to add companion core support to windows RT 8.1 when not all RT tablets use the tegra.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always thought that the 5th core could run simultaneously with the other 4 to manage background tasks, etc, thus leaving less side work for the others. I could be wrong though. Also, I know of only one RT tab to NOT use Tegra (Dell), and it was the first to drop price and flop.
Anyways, the exciting thing about kexec/Linux prospects is that if we were to get in, there are a lot of Android and Linux versions that run on Tegra 3, which hopefully means we wouldn't have too tough of a time getting at that 5th core working then.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Well the Samsung Ativ Tab RT is also using the S4 cpu, but that device had a limited release from what it seems like in North America. I too was under the assumption that th3 5th core could be used at the same time with the other cores, which could free up power for other things. Like the 5th core would be used for the low power task, while at the same the the other 4 cores are being used for a more process heavy task.
It would be interesting to have Android or Linux running in a dual boot situation on our RT devices, or if even possible do what Samsung is doing, and have it emulated in Windows so you can run apps side by side.
No, the 5th core is not an actual 5th core. The idea is you have 4 full blown cores at 1.2, 1.4 or 1.6ghz depending on the tegra model (and then the tegra can overclock automatically to 1.3, 1.5 or 1.7), thats quite power hungry really. But as CPU usage falls the tegra shuts a few cores off, if the system cant benefit from all 4 cores being active it will drop to 3, then 2 and then 1. Sometimes even that 1 core running at 1.2ghz is compartively power hungry, so the tegra shuts the final core down and fires up the companion core which I think runs around the 700MHz range, its slow at any rate, its also built optimised purely for power consumption over performance. Idea is you can go from a full quad core chip when you need the performance but then when the device is idling you can switch over to the companion core and shut the main 4 all off and save alot of power.
NVidia claim that the companion core combined with the hardware video acceleration of the tegra should be able to play HD videos on its own. That doesnt really seem to happen outside of the lab. But when you lock the screen on your android device it often jumps into companion core mode, you can browse around the android home screen and use a few lightweight apps on the companion core no problem, and when it does begin to struggle the tegra just has to skip over to its main core and gradually bring the other 3 main cores online as it needs them.
It never has the companion and main cores on in a state able to be used by the operating system simultaneously though.
Samsungs so called octa-core chips also do the same. They arent really octa core chips, in reality they are a quad core cortex A15 chip and a quad core lower clock speed cortex A9 chip (possibly even A7) on the same piece of silicon, when CPU load is high it runs as a quad core A15, when it doesnt need so much performance it shuts down the A15 and swaps for the A9, the 2 CPU's are near separate and at any one time the chip is only running as a single quad core processor not an octacore. Similar to the companion core design this can lead to a massive boost in battery life. In both A15 and A9 modes the processor is capable of shutting down individual cores as need be.
Tegra may well be the chip in all main tablets, but when microsoft first started working on windows RT there were meant to be qualcomm snapdragon, NVidia tegra and texas instruments OMAP devices all coming to market so of course microsoft at the time needed RT to run on all 3. The original plan was that there would be56 3rd party manufacturers manufacturing RT tablets, 2 per chip vendor except TI. Originally qualcomm partnered with HP and Samsung, NVidia with Lenovo and Asus and Toshiba with TI In the end TI dropped out and shortly after downscaled OMAP production (I think it has completely stopped with the exception of existing contracts now, or at least chips intended for tablet usage have been, they had a few industrial chips under the OMAP branding that might still be available, their ARM based microcontroller and DSP lines are still going fine), TI took Toshiba with them. Of course by the time TI dropped out there were already running builds of RT. HP dropped out and were replaced by dell. Acer were slated to be joining the program but didn't, when MS unveiled the surface that killed it for acer.
Another limitation is that Windows RT is essentially just an ARM port of windows 8, windows 8 and the NT kernel in general didnt already have support for the companion core or similar tech, it would be pointless adding it to the base NT kernel as hardly any devices use it and it would probably lead to issues introducing it only for tegra.
Surely Microsoft can see that getting the maximum out of the CPUs in their own devices is a good thing? I get that they have to support a few ARM architectures, but there's no reason why Windows RT can't be optimised with a specific update for the Surface?
bydandie said:
Surely Microsoft can see that getting the maximum out of the CPUs in their own devices is a good thing? I get that they have to support a few ARM architectures, but there's no reason why Windows RT can't be optimised with a specific update for the Surface?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be a maintenance nightmare. You know the way everyone *****es and moans about the non existent android fragmentation (or at the very least hugely over exaggerated)? Now apply that to windows RT, its already a struggling platform. You don't want more ammo for the opposition, the extra effort probably isn't worth it. Under sleep mode or single core mode (non companion, RT will scale back to single core non companion happily) the battery life is good enough, companion would be nice, but non essential. Companion core would need to be supported at a kernel level. It would be a nightmare to keep one version of the kernel (if you don't know what a kernel is, consider it the chassis of a car or the foundations of a house, its the very core of the operating system) for each tablet.
Is power vr g6430 any good when campared to adreno gpu's?
http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_5s_vs_lg_g2_vs_nokia_lumia_1020-review-997p5.php
The same GPU used on iPhone 5s. Based on this benchmark, it's better than Adreno 330 I think.
Adreno 405 isn't top class GPU. According to GFLOPS numbers, 405 is better than 1st gen Adreno 320 (S4 Pro, S4 Prime) and weaker 2nd gen.
But all about benchmarks, the most important is user experience and last but not least is optimization
GrandpaaOvekill said:
Is power vr g6430 any good when campared to adreno gpu's?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adreno 405 is only half as power of powervgr g6430
Adreno 405 is middle range gpu
While powervgr g6430, adreno 320, 330, 420 are last year and current flagship gpu
Gpu mostly rated by gflops
http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
And adreno each generation have basic, mid, high power gpu..
Adreno 405 is 4th generation (05 means basic) and can match 3rd Gen mid
Adreno 420 is 4th generation (20 is mid) and can match 3rd Gen high gpu
See gflops of each in that above link
And yes optimization is the most for gaming
The PowerVR G6430 in Zenfone 2 is clocked higher than iphone 5s but lower than ipads and Atom 3570. Its performance is between the Adreno 330 and 430 which is excellent given that it was designed in 2012 and released in 2013. Reclocking it at 640Mhz like its 3570 brother should give a nice run for its price, still technically, it won't be as fast as Adreno 430. However, in real world usage and coupled with a more powerful Intel cpu, it should match it as the CPU is able to extract more GPU power.
If you are really looking at the most powerful mobile GPU, the Nvidia Tegra X1 is at the top, close to twice the performance of the top Qualcomm 810 GPU, Adreno 430. In Antutu, it only scores 75K because the CPU is slower than others like Intel. 75K is still unbreakeable for the moment. Surely, Nvidia and ATI have much more experience in the GPU domain so its not surprising that they are the fastest.
Now, only if ATI partner with Intel to provide us with 14nm goodies :angel:
p.s: To have a broader picture, the Tegra X1 chip is close to twice the performance of a PS3 which is astonishing considering its small size and 2W max power consumption.
Nvidia Shield TV based on Tegra X1 has active cooling system.
So, how it can be compared to phone SoCs?
My bad, I though it was found in the Nvidia Shield tablet. Its its brother the Kepler K1 that is currently used but still at 365 GFlops on nvidia website, it competes with the adreno 430. Note that the PS3 was 192 GFlops.
Interesting fact is that the Tegra X1 actually draws much Less power at idle and slightly less power (1w less than Kepler) at load. Kepler would peak at 11w. Thanks to the new 20nm tech in Maxwell cores efficiency. The Nvidia TV Shield has much more and larger components to power, its also for sure clocked higher.
''According to Nvidia, the power consumption in a tablet powered by Tegra X1 will be on par with Tegra K1. In fact, idle power consumption will be even lower thanks to the various architecture improvements. Tegra K1 was designed to operate at around 5-8 watts, with infrequent peaks up to 11 watts when running stressful benchmarks, so the X1 will be well within the realm of tablet power requirements.'' Source: greenbot.com
Heres this too: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/NVIDIA-Announces-Tegra-X1-Maxwell-Hits-Ultra-Low-Power
I really like the fact that PC manifacturers enter the mobile market, after all, they were building computer components for ages. This will open the door to more powerfull and cheaper SoCs especially because they have the ability to mass produce and develop the latest tech with many factory plants worldwide.
aziz07 said:
My bad, I though it was found in the Nvidia Shield tablet. Its its brother the Kepler K1 that is currently used but still at 365 GFlops on nvidia website, it competes with the adreno 430. Note that the PS3 was 192 GFlops.
Interesting fact is that the Tegra X1 actually draws much Less power at idle and slightly less power (1w less than Kepler) at load. Kepler would peak at 11w. Thanks to the new 20nm tech in Maxwell cores efficiency. The Nvidia TV Shield has much more and larger components to power, its also for sure clocked higher.
''According to Nvidia, the power consumption in a tablet powered by Tegra X1 will be on par with Tegra K1. In fact, idle power consumption will be even lower thanks to the various architecture improvements. Tegra K1 was designed to operate at around 5-8 watts, with infrequent peaks up to 11 watts when running stressful benchmarks, so the X1 will be well within the realm of tablet power requirements.'' Source: greenbot.com
Heres this too: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/NVIDIA-Announces-Tegra-X1-Maxwell-Hits-Ultra-Low-Power
I really like the fact that PC manifacturers enter the mobile market, after all, they were building computer components for ages. This will open the door to more powerfull and cheaper SoCs especially because they have the ability to mass produce and develop the latest tech with many factory plants worldwide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maxwell can very power hungry when you clock it all the way up, and X1 has more CUDA cores than K1. X1 has 2 SMM with 256 total while K1 only has 1 SMX with 192.
also, pc manufacturers have always been in the mobile market, or you could even say they started the mobile market. for instance, Apple was a pc manufacturer, steve jobs dedicated 70% of his life to PC rather than phones. samsung makes everything and they have a lot of experience too in making notebooks. so the two most powerful (or most successful) players in the mobile sector are also pc manufacturers, what do you mean by pc manufacturers entering the mobile market?
Its getting off topic but Intel or Apple weren't the first one to build a cell phone. Intel was the first company to build a CPU though. Motorola built the 1st cellphone.
On a sidenote, Apple never really built anything except for aesthetics, it started with IBM building for them after non-success with Synertek for a couple of months. Btw, Samsung does not manifacture PC CPUs or GPUs. Only CPU they build is the Exynos for mobile. I think you misinterpreted the fact the they sell laptops, yes they do, but they are not the one building its major components, its Intel and AMD. They may build its memory components but not CPU or GPU.
You are seeing technology the other way around. If we take, let say, a 2 years old gpu and a new one. The new one can have double the transitor and components count yet still consume less power. Its about architechture efficiency and transistor nm. e.g. the Intel in our Zenfone 2 is built with 3D 22nm transistor which is more power efficient. That's how tech flow.
Anyway, apple is slowly declining, Intel is building their PC segment, replacing IBM, and Samsung is building their next iphone and taking care of the mobile segment. We can already see whats next.
I have been building PCs for over 15 years, its my hobby.
@ mods There should be a ''resolved'' button just like other forums so threads don't get cluttered lol
GrandpaaOvekill said:
Is power vr g6430 any good when campared to adreno gpu's?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know benchmarks aren't everything, but GFX gives a good idea of the performance difference between the two. Basically, the PowerVR G6430 is much more powerful than the Adreno 405.
PowerVR G6430:
https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?ben...VR Rogue G6430&base=device&ff-check-desktop=0
Adreno 405:
https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?ben...ter=Adreno 405&base=device&ff-check-desktop=0
Here's some videos of a Zenfone 2 with a phone that utilizes the SD 615/Adreno 405 combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3DcRHXrTHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZr53U2Tfk
Hope this helps.