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one sided promise from microsoft (re:updates) is pure fail. all parties should be brought onboard and each held accountable
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-partners-with-oems-and-carriers-to-guarantee-android-upda/
Wow, I saw AT&T on the picture, I must relook at it.
It will never happen because all the OEM's and carriers involved seem to want Microsoft and WP7 to fail.
Look at the Zune hardware. My brother had a Zune since Day 1 and he got every update and new release from Microsoft, no problem. I don't think it's a Microsoft issue, I think it's a carrier issue.
Well, that announcement says Android phones will be supported for 18 months. It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
vangrieg said:
It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
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if you read the live update, it says:
"12:34PM New guidelines! Man, this is going to be huge. Google's laying out a timeline for how long it'll take a device to get updated once a new build is let loose, as well as how long it'll be updated beyond that."
Google and Apple are both more powerful and influential in the mobile space than Microsoft right now. I don't think Microsoft is really in the position to dictate anything to anyone right now.
And what exactly are these guidelines? Three days for a new ROM from HTC with a new Sense on it?
I mean, this is great news for Android, but there's nothing so far that says anything real about what the update experience will be.
I know it's trendy to bash MS, but WP7 has seen four updates already. And the last one was cumulative, by the way.
I don't know, I have been receiving my updates when MS release them; other than the first one that took one or two weeks every other have been the same day (but I’m not in USA).
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-clarifies-18-month-android-upgrade-program-details-far-f/
When pressed about how long it'd take updates to flow to phones after given the thumbs-up by Google itself, there's no hard news to report. In fact, the details there are still being hashed out.
To quote Google, "It's a logistics problem." We can only imagine. Trying to get every Android partner to follow a timeline for releases has to be a complete and utter nightmare, but the company seems certain that these stipulations won't cripple anyone's ability to innovate on their skins (or have too little time to make the needed changes).
We would've loved to hear a specific figure that we could start holding phone manufacturers to, but alas, it isn't to be. The only hard number thrown out today is 18 months. That's how long future hardware will be in the support cycle (at least, anyway), so you'll "soon" be able to count on your next Android device receiving all applicable updates for 1.5 years after purchase.
The guideline is yet to be hashed out. That's why they practically included everyone in the group to come up with a guide line. The only reason AT&T is included is because AT&T wants to make sure the final guideline doesn't put it in the spotlight again, like must release updates within 6 months of Google release That will never happen. I'm pretty sure the final guide line will be 12-month (from Google release the code and you see it on your phone), i.e. totally worthless and waste of time. Android is an open source platform, Google has no say about who can use the code and when they need to release the updates. The only thing Google can do is withheld Android market support.
And if they take longer than the set time frame? What happens?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Nothing would happen. It is called guide line, not rules.
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
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munkeyphyst said:
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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There is none. FWIW MS has "guidelines" on updates as well, i.e. that carriers cannot block two consecutive updates.
-R
I smell a publicity fail from Google.
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
Also, it depends on whether the device's hardware supports the update and knowing Andorid manufacturers like HTC they'll just put a ROM chip too small to take any major updates in the phone, etc. Your Evo 4.0 can't support Sense 3.0? Good luck getting that update! HTC will not "downgrade" an Evo 4G from Sense 2 to Stock Android...
They are still trying to get the details panned out, but I'm not getting my hopes up. There are still phones out there sending SMS/MMS to the wrong contacts because the manufacturers don't even prioritize security updates for their phones (which, IMO, is a MUCH bigger issues than even large feature updates...). Android is a huge, hot mess when it comes to updates.
bill.g said:
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
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Are you a developer?
Those aren't themes. They're deep customizations many of which have access to parts of the system that would require a "normal" app to run with Super User permissions. You can't release much of that as an App in the marketplace... Not to mention, they would just end up getting pirated by everyone and at worse breaking a bunch of phones that weren't designed to run the software (freezing them, reboot loops, making them unbootable, etc.).
There's also the issue of drivers, because different manufacturers use dispirate hardware configurations with screens, SoCs, cameras, etc. from dispirate sources. Getting all of that to work on an update is MUCH harder than getting the skins functional.
You people (generally speaking) really think the skins are the issue? They are not. Android (specifically, Linux) is the issue. The skins are easy as hell. The latest Epic 4G Gingerbread Leak has a working TouchWiz, but most of the phone/smartphone functionality is broken. That's a great example on just how easy porting the skins form version to version is. Skins typically aren't that sensitive to kernal ABI changes - device drivers ARE.
The fact that Android is based on Linux by default ensures that updates will have issues because it inherits many of Linux's issues. A Windows Mobile 6.0 update could in many cases just reuse drivers developed for Windows Mobile 5.0the same way Windows 7 can use many Windows XP drivers without any issues.
Linux doesn't have this type of backward/forward compatibility. That's why those leaked updates often have close to nothing working on them (No Wifi, no calls, no this, no that, etc.). Linux doesn't have a stable ABI for driver developers. Kernel updates can break any and/or everything. This means that the turnaround for updates is much longer than it will be for something like WP7.
The biggest issue with Android is the fact that Manufacturers and Carriers do not even prioritize critical security updates, and Google seems intent on not patching and quickly propagating patches for exploits used to root devices. Which is nice for tinkerers, but can be an issue when a malware uses that exploit on someone's device to perform malicious actions...
N8ter said:
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
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I'm pretty sure they said timely updates. Which means they are going to work out some sort of guidelines on how long it takes for the updates to get pushed out. What that actually is remains to be seen though.
So we all know Nodo was a bit of a mess and a lot of people got the update at different times, some had to wait months.
What confuses me is that with the Mango beta it works on any device, regardless of country or carrier... So why does the official updates need to be sent to the carrier first for them to release?
Why can't Microsoft just release 1 update, like they did for the beta, to go on all phones at the same time.. Or is that what they plan on doing this time round?
Because the carriers have MS by the short and curlies.
The carriers do (semi-legitimately) need to test the phone + OS combo on their networks. This is, generally, for the customers' benefit.
The beta was delivered direct from MS because it was a beta. There are probably clauses in contracts allowing this.
Also although the beta works on our devices, it still has to go to the hardware manufacturers, even before the carriers, to build/improve the custom drivers. This hopefully should improve the experience for end users (even further than what we've currently got).
Casey
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
Well, WP7 will be officially released in my region with Mango, and one of my largest fear is that people wont reject it because there is about 10 good apps in total, due to developers give about zero ****s about the new regions.
OndraSter said:
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
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In which case it would have been better for OEMs and Carriers to work with the betas like normal developers have so that when the official release is ready there's not much delay... I hope this has been the case.
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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Multi touch bug is a complete killer. Really can't wait for 4.0.4 AOSP hopefully soon
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
virtualcertainty said:
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
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Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
virtualcertainty said:
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
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Well yeah, but the things that annoy me are the bugs that are present in 4.0.2 and have been fixed in 4.0.4. And not only that, but also the API features of 4.0.3+ that was supposed to be the 'base' version of Android 4.0.
I don't mind how long major releases would take, but this is a small incremental update. I am just surprised that it takes so long to serve it to 'Google phone'.
kristovaher said:
Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
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Newer versions such as what? The latest aosp is 4.0.3 and not 4.0.4. It's quite obvious that 4.0.4 is not ready.
The Galaxy nexus is a Google supported device and is a nexus.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Well, if you look from it from the other side. Google might actually spare us from the still-bugged 4.0.3 version wich is AOSP. Also, JBQ already confirmed that the 4.0.4 version contained a "nasty bug" and wasn't ready for release.
If you look at it that way, new devices with 4.0.3 is still bugged in a way. And Google wants to keep those versions away from their current Nexus.
Just my way of being patient
Oddly enough, some of the tablets shown at MWC (on 4.0.3) had multi touch issues. This brings in a whole new strand of questions...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
In regards to the latest os .... can anyone tell me what phone has ics update already???? And I've said phone ohh and it has to be released now announced
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
martonikaj said:
I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
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You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version.
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Yes I do. And people deserve to be given some perspective.
What do you mean? ~1% of Android devices have ICS. How is that not leading the way in terms of OS version when we're the only phone with it? Nothing has a higher OS (and don't say "omg the NS has 4.0.3!"). The Galaxy Nexus launched Android 4.
Why are you crying about not having 4.0.3/4.0.4 over 4.0.2. If its not ready, its not ready. That's why we don't have it officially yet. For all you know Google is holding off till 4.0.5, 4.0.6, or 4.1... no one knows.
Like your phone for what it is. You're like a dog chasing his tail when you get something great and always look for the next best thing. You'll spend your entire time with the device wanting more, and you'll never enjoy what you have.
Like I said in the other thread: OTA's will never come fast enough for people. If Google started pushing one every month (regardless of how what it did or didn't include/fix), it still wouldn't be fast enough because people would prefer it was 3 weeks instead, then 2 weeks, then 1 week, then nightlies. And guess what? Google isn't going to do nightly OTAs of ICS (not even close!). If you want nightlies, go build a ROM from CM source and change things for yourself. Or better yet, build straight from AOSP source and fix the bugs yourself. Make a thread for it and let people ***** at you for not fixing them faster.
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
PCHelper said:
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
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I'll tend to agree with most of what you said.... Apple has this down to a T with releasing OS versions. Everyone with the previous 2 versions of the hardware is completely guaranteed to get the update the day that it comes out. Models 3 years ago may or may not get a full update, but they'll at least get a partial update (with some features pulled). You know what you're getting and you know when you're getting it. You'll never be in limbo. When Apple announces a new iOS version, they explicitly say which models will get it. The consistency is good.
WP7 is a bit better analogy of what Android has to strive for IMO. Android covers tons of carriers, devices, etc. but still needs to be able to handle pushing OTAs to everyone in a timely matter. This is a huge logistical hurdle for MS (or Google) to try jump. MS is handling it by putting very strict guidelines on what hardware can be used and what you can/can't do to the software (which is pretty much nothing). This makes the OTA process a 1000 times easier for MS to implement. What it leads to is basically knowing that the OTA update will work on all of these different devices because they're about 90% identical in hardware, and 99% identical in software. The only hurdle for them is pretty much getting carriers to accept the terms of pushing the OTA.
While Google could implement a system like this, it'd be at least a year out. Because in order for this MS-style system to work, Android would have to have specific hardware and software guidelines. The problem being that Android is open source and free, and manufacturers can really do whatever they want. They only have to follow some very relaxed "guidelines" to get GAPPS. Even if Google wanted to push OTAs to all of these phones in their current state they couldn't. Google doesn't hold the code from Samsung, HTC, LG, Huawei, and others because they're each doing it in house. There is no unifying OTA that can be pushed. Ultimately Google has no say in what happens after they certify it for GAPPS support. At that point, its between the manufacturers and carriers what is going to happen.
Google needs to start hitting manufacturers where they can, with GAPPS. Its the only closed-source part of Android and its a really really important one. They need to start forcing UI guidelines and skinning policies that let OTAs flow smoother. On the carrier side, they need to start pushing carriers to allow manufacturers to push them when its ready. Google can only do so much to carriers though. At that point they can threaten, but again its not up to Google what happens with those devices once the licenses go out. Its not a Google sale to the carrier, its a manufacturer sale. Until every phone Google sells is a Nexus, they won't be able to tell carriers what to do. Although the market share is huge for Android, it doesn't have the same unified push to bully carriers like Apple has.
....but I've got a couple other points as well on your post. You're making it sound like the Galaxy Nexus is running 4.0.2, and the rest of devices are running/being sold with 4.0.3 (the "stable" build). This is not the case. Whether its running the most "stable" build or not, the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone, and all of those phones being sold from this point w/ 4.0.3 will have skins attached as well.
martonikaj said:
the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone
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Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
Evangelion01 said:
Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
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First off, the Nexus S update has yet to be pushed to everyone. Its still halted because of bugs (and the NS4G doesn't have it officially, either). Second, simply because it's 4.0.3 doesn't mean that it's "better" than 4.0.2 on the Galaxy Nexus. For all intents and purposes, it's the same update... look at the NS4G and NS on Gingerbread. One was on 2.3.5, the other on 2.3.7... doesn't mean one was better than the other, but simply the NS4G needed specific build # because its a different device.
If you're splitting hairs of 4.0.3 vs. 4.0.2 to try and win this argument, it's not going to work.
now here is where we can start the argument... 4.0.3 is better then 4.0.2 if only due to the codex hardware fix.
But that is not the question. The issue is it was officially released as latest stable, however only after official release somehow all of a sudden the official Google phones are full of bugs and it is not good for them. If it is not developed and tested on the official hardware, then why put the official stamp on everything? Where is Google QA? Why buy Google official devices if we cannot even get the minimum we expect from the name? Pay attention, I am not talking about vendor devices, only on official stamped device/software....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
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+1
Couldn't have put it better myself. Google really needs to pull its **** together and give us some of that 4.0.4 goodness!
Thank god for unlockable bootloaders and XDA devs, huh. Oh, wait......
From my point of view (and mine only) I knew the nexus would have an unlockable boot loader, I knew there would be a root exploit before I even brought the device and I knew the devs here would provide better then Google themselves, that's why I personally, brought the phone. Fortunately you didn't choose HTC. The delays are longer and the devices more secure. What I'm trying to say is, make the most the the nexus and this community and get a custom ROM or makesure you choose devices in the future for the right reasons. Let's face it, very few of us brought it for the specs....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
I'm not entirely sure which forum would be most appropriate to post this under, but this seems like a decent candidate, so I'm starting here. If this would fit better somewhere else, please feel to redirect me, and/or even move the thread if appropriate. I think I've read all the appropriate sticky threads et cetera, but if I do make / am making a faux pas, please let me know.
As you're probably aware (https://www.xda-developers.com/t-mobile-att-require-volte-phone-calls-shut-down-3g/), T-Mobile is expected to shut down its non-VoLTE voice service in January of 2021. As a result, it's imperative for anyone who gets phone service through them to have a phone with working VoLTE support before that point. As that includes me, I've been looking into that.
I currently have a Samsung Galaxy S5, purchased through T-Mobile back in 2015 (if I'm not mistaken, it's a SM-G900T). There seem to be fairly solid statements that this model does support VoLTE under the stock ROM, and indeed T-Mobile support seems to think that it should be working.
I run LineageOS - specifically klte, which matches that model. I'm currently on the August 30th, 2020 "nightly" build of version 16.0 (which was the latest available for that model as of earlier today), on top of TWRP 3.3.1 (ditto). I only recently upgraded from TWRP 2.8.7 and (IIRC) LineageOS 14.1, which I'd been running since sometime in 2017 for reasons that are out of scope but I can describe briefly if desired. The upgrade was specifically in hopes that newer LineageOS would have VoLTE support options which the earlier version did not, but that seems to have been a futile hope.
After some fairly extensive digging (mostly online, but with some poking around on my own device and in my own backups et cetera), I've concluded that while it is theoretically possible to have VoLTE support on this device under LineageOS, it's likely to be effectively impossible in practice. Threads such as https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s5/devs-only/port-ims-manager-to-klte-t3551084 (not the only place I've looked, but probably the last before giving up) seem to indicate that the only way to get it to work - short of reverse engineering enough of the underlying system to be able to reimplement Samsung's closed IMS implementation for that model - would be to find a Galaxy S5 with the stock ROM and working VoLTE, and copy the appropriate files out of that and into the correct places on the LineageOS-based version of the system.
I thought I'd kept a backup of the stock ROM which my S5 came with, but I haven't managed to find any sign of it in my archives. I don't think I have any other way to get at the correct files, never mind figure out where they need to go and get them there; I certainly couldn't justify buying another S5 just to be able to extract the stock ROM.
As linked from the thread referenced above, there do appear to be, or have been, other custom ROMs for the Galaxy S5 which include - or included - VoLTE support. However, I'm otherwise quite happy with LineageOS, and don't want to switch to another custom ROM line - especially since I want to avoid the data loss that would come with wiping my phone to install another ROM, unless there's absolutely no way to avoid it.
Are there any prospects for my being able to get VoLTE working on this phone under LineageOS? If so, what would I need to do to manage that, within the January deadline?
If not, or if what prospects there are don't pan out, I'm going to need to acquire a new smartphone which will be able to have VoLTE under LineageOS, and preferably one which will at least approximate meeting the other criteria which led me to select the Galaxy S5 in the first place and stick with it all this time. In particular, A: I all but insist on a conveniently user-swappable battery (I carry at least one fully-charged spare in my back pocket at all times), not so much for field battery life extension as to be able to replace the battery rather than the phone when the battery inevitably bloats and dies (I'm on something like my seventh battery for this S5), B: I really like having separate dedicated "home", "back", and (for lack of a better term) "active applications list" buttons, and the only model I know for sure has them is the S5 itself, and C: I very much want to have a traditional headphone jack. Expandable storage, in the form of a suitable SD-card slot, would also be nice but is not strictly required.
What models can I expect to be able to get VoLTE working on under LineageOS, with good support in other regards, within that January deadline? The model-support information I've been able to find in searching thus far does not seem to provide any clear indication on this point.
I don't expect recommendations on what smartphone models will be able to also meet my other criteria, although of course it would be nice; that would probably fit better under the "what phone should I buy next?" thread over in General Q&A.
No chance for adding volte. It's utopic to believe you could eben keep you phone setup.
You don't share your reason for using lineageOS. If it's about avoiding preinstalled apps, you can instead debloat stock rom.
kurtn said:
No chance for adding volte. It's utopic to believe you could eben keep you phone setup.
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I was afraid of that, but I did still have some hope.
Is that klte/S5-specific, or is it a more general statement about LineageOS at large, which holds true regardless of phone model?
If the latter, then LineageOS is soon to become unusable for anyone with T-Mobile service, which seems like a major problem that people would already be working actively to try to correct. (I also think I heard that other providers may make a similar change, which would make the problem more widespread; I specifically half-remember articles about AT&T in that regard. No concrete backup for that at the moment, though.)
If the former, then what phone models are there for which VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS?
kurtn said:
You don't share your reason for using lineageOS. If it's about avoiding preinstalled apps, you can instead debloat stock rom.
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I'm a little surprised that the reasons would even be asked about, given that this is a LineageOS-specific forum; I wouldn't expect the people here to be up for directing people away from LineageOS to other ROMs.
My original impetus for using LineageOS (at the time, CyanogenMod) was simply one of principle about avoiding proprietary software and vendor lock-in/lockdown/et cetera. I also like the ability to control updates on my own, both in terms of being able to determine when I update to a new version and of being able to continue to get updates independent of whether the manufacturer/carrier/etc. continues to release them.
Avoiding preinstalled apps is certainly one aspect of it, but it's by no means the only one.
I also doubt that I could simply debloat the stock ROM, for the simple reason that I don't think I *have* the stock ROM - or if I do, it's years out of date (as I said, 2015). I left a search running overnight, and on that basis have managed to find the backup copy of the stock image that was on the phone when I received it, but unless trying to extract the necessary stack components for VoLTE support from it might be viable after all I don't know how useful that will turn out to be.
(I'm probably going to invest some time into looking into that today, anyway, but I don't really expect to get any results out of it.)
Alias Bongo said:
I was afraid of that, but I did still have some hope.
Is that klte/S5-specific, or is it a more general statement about LineageOS at large, which holds true regardless of phone model?
If the latter, then LineageOS is soon to become unusable for anyone with T-Mobile service, which seems like a major problem that people would already be working actively to try to correct. (I also think I heard that other providers may make a similar change, which would make the problem more widespread; I specifically half-remember articles about AT&T in that regard. No concrete backup for that at the moment, though.)
If the former, then what phone models are there for which VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS?
I'm a little surprised that the reasons would even be asked about, given that this is a LineageOS-specific forum; I wouldn't expect the people here to be up for directing people away from LineageOS to other ROMs.
My original impetus for using LineageOS (at the time, CyanogenMod) was simply one of principle about avoiding proprietary software and vendor lock-in/lockdown/et cetera. I also like the ability to control updates on my own, both in terms of being able to determine when I update to a new version and of being able to continue to get updates independent of whether the manufacturer/carrier/etc. continues to release them.
Avoiding preinstalled apps is certainly one aspect of it, but it's by no means the only one.
I also doubt that I could simply debloat the stock ROM, for the simple reason that I don't think I *have* the stock ROM - or if I do, it's years out of date (as I said, 2015). I left a search running overnight, and on that basis have managed to find the backup copy of the stock image that was on the phone when I received it, but unless trying to extract the necessary stack components for VoLTE support from it might be viable after all I don't know how useful that will turn out to be.
(I'm probably going to invest some time into looking into that today, anyway, but I don't really expect to get any results out of it.)
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I think your chances for volte are better if you change from samsung to motorola.
kurtn said:
I think your chances for volte are better if you change from samsung to motorola.
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That's unfortunately fairly vague, as a basis for going out and buying a smartphone.
What I'm looking for in terms of "VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS" is something for which a statement like one of the following can be made:
"Yes, VoLTE works on this model under LineageOS out of the box; you don't need to do anything special to get it working, just flash LineageOS and go."
"Yes, it's possible to get VoLTE working on this model under LineageOS; here's what you need to do to get it working, beyond just flashing LineageOS."
Do you know of any specific smartphone models for which you can make one of those statements?
While I'm not against investigating and experimenting and trying things out to get things to work, and in fact sometimes that can even be fun, I do not want to do that in a production environment - and I'm under deadline (albeit with a few months to go), with limited resources for experimenting (in the form of money to buy smartphones which might work), before this becomes a critical production environment.
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
Alias Bongo said:
That's unfortunately fairly vague, as a basis for going out and buying a smartphone.
What I'm looking for in terms of "VoLTE does or can readily be made to work under LineageOS" is something for which a statement like one of the following can be made:
"Yes, VoLTE works on this model under LineageOS out of the box; you don't need to do anything special to get it working, just flash LineageOS and go."
"Yes, it's possible to get VoLTE working on this model under LineageOS; here's what you need to do to get it working, beyond just flashing LineageOS."
Do you know of any specific smartphone models for which you can make one of those statements?
While I'm not against investigating and experimenting and trying things out to get things to work, and in fact sometimes that can even be fun, I do not want to do that in a production environment - and I'm under deadline (albeit with a few months to go), with limited resources for experimenting (in the form of money to buy smartphones which might work), before this becomes a critical production environment.
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
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Yes. Moto e2 lte surnia has volte in LineageOS out of the box.
kurtn said:
Yes. Moto e2 lte surnia has volte in LineageOS out of the box.
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Thanks! I'll investigate that option, then, in addition to any others that present themselves.
Alias Bongo said:
(Also, I've found what look like IMS-related files in the backup copy of the stock ROM, which don't seem to exist in the LineageOS that's currently running on my phone. Depending on what they look like on further examination, I may try pulling them in and seeing if anything changes; worst-case scenario, I should just have to boot to recovery and restore a backup.)
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Unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem to be that simple. The files involved in this are themselves few enough, and most although not all of them don't seem to exist in the currently-running image, so they can be copied in without further ado - but there are enough references to them in other files, which either *do* exist (and so would need to be edited, in a way that leaves things compatible with both systems) or seem likely to themselves (need to) be referenced elsewhere, that the whole thing turns into a mess of cascading complexity.
Short of input from someone with expertise on IMS/VoLTE implementation from some other model, I suspect this won't turn out to be a viable avenue to pursue, at least not unless and until I have my hands on a Galaxy S5 which isn't my production phone and as such can be used for experimentation. Even then, I'll probably need to basically build my own custom ROM (or custom local build of LineageOS, at least) rather than just inserting files into a system built from an existing one.
I've looked briefly into the Moto E2, and while it does look like the newest/final models of it would support VoLTE in a way that LineageOS would plausibly be able to handle, it's also at least nearly as old as the S5 and is less capable and desirable in other ways. It'd be better than nothing, but not something I would prefer as my first choice.
I'm hoping that other people chime in with more models to suggest. As this is going to become increasingly important as more carriers shut down their 3G/2G networks, and VoLTE becomes the only way to do voice calling, I'd ideally like to see a page - possibly this thread, possibly another one, possibly a Wiki page - with as comprehensive a listing of phone models which *are* known to have working VoLTE support under LineageOS (and/or possibly other non-stock ROMs) as possible, including links to any necessary how-to directions per model and notes on any special criteria (e.g., carrier-specific support or support differences between regions or the like). I hoped something like that would already exist, given the apparent upcoming VoLTEpocalypse - but as it doesn't seem to (or at least I haven't managed to find one thus far), it wouldn't hurt to start trying to create one.
My understanding is that Verizon is apparently going to make the "VoLTE mandatory" transition in January, much the same as T-Mobile, and AT&T is planning to do it sometime in 2022. With Sprint out of the picture after the T-Mobile merger, that's basically all of the major US wireless carriers that I'm aware of, so this will be universal (at least in the USA) before too very long. Some amount of preparation to make sure the custom-ROM field will remain viable past that point would seem appropriate; I'm surprised by how little activity in that area I've been able to find thus far.
Alias Bongo said:
Unsurprisingly, it doesn't seem to be that simple. The files involved in this are themselves few enough, and most although not all of them don't seem to exist in the currently-running image, so they can be copied in without further ado - but there are enough references to them in other files, which either *do* exist (and so would need to be edited, in a way that leaves things compatible with both systems) or seem likely to themselves (need to) be referenced elsewhere, that the whole thing turns into a mess of cascading complexity.
Short of input from someone with expertise on IMS/VoLTE implementation from some other model, I suspect this won't turn out to be a viable avenue to pursue, at least not unless and until I have my hands on a Galaxy S5 which isn't my production phone and as such can be used for experimentation. Even then, I'll probably need to basically build my own custom ROM (or custom local build of LineageOS, at least) rather than just inserting files into a system built from an existing one.
I've looked briefly into the Moto E2, and while it does look like the newest/final models of it would support VoLTE in a way that LineageOS would plausibly be able to handle, it's also at least nearly as old as the S5 and is less capable and desirable in other ways. It'd be better than nothing, but not something I would prefer as my first choice.
I'm hoping that other people chime in with more models to suggest. As this is going to become increasingly important as more carriers shut down their 3G/2G networks, and VoLTE becomes the only way to do voice calling, I'd ideally like to see a page - possibly this thread, possibly another one, possibly a Wiki page - with as comprehensive a listing of phone models which *are* known to have working VoLTE support under LineageOS (and/or possibly other non-stock ROMs) as possible, including links to any necessary how-to directions per model and notes on any special criteria (e.g., carrier-specific support or support differences between regions or the like). I hoped something like that would already exist, given the apparent upcoming VoLTEpocalypse - but as it doesn't seem to (or at least I haven't managed to find one thus far), it wouldn't hurt to start trying to create one.
My understanding is that Verizon is apparently going to make the "VoLTE mandatory" transition in January, much the same as T-Mobile, and AT&T is planning to do it sometime in 2022. With Sprint out of the picture after the T-Mobile merger, that's basically all of the major US wireless carriers that I'm aware of, so this will be universal (at least in the USA) before too very long. Some amount of preparation to make sure the custom-ROM field will remain viable past that point would seem appropriate; I'm surprised by how little activity in that area I've been able to find thus far.
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Totally agree, I'm surprised this news hasn't gotten more attention in the community. First came to mind, "ah crap, no more custom roms." (perse).
I started a thread on this on the LG v50 forums to raise awareness, hopefully there can be workarounds:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/v50-thinq/help/att-t-mobile-to-off-3g-networks-disable-t4163491
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By forcing VOLTE, this can potentially lock out some unlocked phones and also exclude custom roms, forcing users to buy carrier branded phones. In addition, shutting down 3G and forcing 4G VOLTE will ensure that lots of customers upgrade/buy new phones when their current phone may be perfectly fine otherwise(unnecessary costs and more perfectly working phones in the land fill in vain).
IIRC, you could use a stock from on your S5 and just remove the bad parts. It's no substitute for AOSP but you got to do what you got to do. Plus it's free. The stock files should be available and you can use recovery to image your phone so you don't lose your data. That is the route I would go and can't really do on my S3.
Other phone selections are looking GRIM in terms of removable batteries, reasonable size, etc. You can look to the V20 or G5 from LG but you will have to do the above process and that is almost where I'm at. Poked and prodded rom isn't the end, I did it for years on my gS2 when AOSP couldn't get HW fully functional.
Motorola has models that do work but they are mostly sealed units and everything is really hard to find as its plastered all over XDA in posts from years ago. Do all rom links even work?
While we were sleeping people got taken over by the machine and the devs didn't know what was coming or couldn't figure out the proprietary implementations.
The question with Tmo is also, is band 12 mandatory or will other phones work on 2 and 4 and volte over that. Nobody has even asked the question. I'm going to try to be safe.
DUP deleted
So odd that such a fatal issue seems to be imminently coming without some progress being made to avert it because unneeded and dangerous 5g is crowding out 2g & 3g. The s5 and note 4 are THE gold standard of excellent screen and hardware and thus the only real choices of replaceable battery phones - the REAL reason that phone mfg force millions of phones to be tossed in the landfills - shame on them! Custom Roms provide extremely important current security updates and allow apks that are updated and no longer work on slightly older android 6 versions (chase, Starbucks, united, etc). Pretty bad to discover after factory resetting a phone that play store won't let you download current or working version.
Perhaps we can crowd fund developers to attack this looming disaster soon?
uds0 said:
So odd that such a fatal issue seems to be imminently coming without some progress being made to avert it because unneeded and dangerous 5g is crowding out 2g & 3g. The s5 and note 4 are THE gold standard of excellent screen and hardware and thus the only real choices of replaceable battery phones - the REAL reason that phone mfg force millions of phones to be tossed in the landfills - shame on them! Custom Roms provide extremely important current security updates and allow apks that are updated and no longer work on slightly older android 6 versions (chase, Starbucks, united, etc). Pretty bad to discover after factory resetting a phone that play store won't let you download current or working version.
Perhaps we can crowd fund developers to attack this looming disaster soon?
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Attack
ＧΛËＬＤＵＶΛＬ (@[email protected])
We're in the process to backport VoLTE support to /e/OS on Samsung Galaxy S9 (Exynos). We're looking for strong expertise here. If you know some true experts in the VoLTE support field, please get in touch! (mailto: [email protected]) #VoLTE #engineering...
mastodon.social
Like many of us, I'm not a big fan of these recent dramatic changes. At least make an option for us to still use the older one like Reddit does.
rms112 said:
Like many of us, I'm not a big fan of these recent dramatic changes. At least make an option for us to still use the older one like Reddit does.
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Tbh I don't think this is possible, because xda has undergone such an overhaul, even the thank meter system and the title system has been changed. Having the older version would mean to recreate it so it embraces all the new stuff here, it could happen but that's very unlikely since it's hard work, and the vast majority of the members actually like this revamped version. Give it a day or two and I think you'll get used to it
This is not going to be possible, but we do have a classic theme if you want an older look.
Yeh, need to move forward into the unknown!
The Classic theme helps....
Aw goly, not liking this new site.
Particularly don't like that the most recent threads under their respective sections can't be seen.
If this could be brought back it would be appreciated.
There is no more "old way" anymore, they migrated and moved all the content from the old site to the new site so as far as I am aware, the "old" site is gone. I personally don't like it yet, but with anything new, comes change, and time to get used to it. I am sure in time we will all have a better experience once they finish the migrations and we all get used to it.
I also noticed I cant edit the posts yet (or I cant find a way to do it) in the new system, so I hope its a bug that gets fixed because I make numerous grammar issues the first round (trying to get the info out of my brain tends to be funky the first round), then I clean it up but only when I can edit my post. This could simply be a user error, or possibly an ID10T error.
The amount of work it would take to maintain two completely separate codebases wouldn't be worth the hassle at all.
As for "like Reddit does":
They are owned by a massive company, they can afford to maintain the old site for at least a bit while they build the newer site out. XDA doesn't have the manpower or server power to do that.
It's only temporary, Reddit isn't gonna keep the old site around forever. Just like YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook when they did massive redesigns a couple years ago, the old site eventually shut down once they migrated 90-100% of the functionality over.
bgiesing said:
The amount of work it would take to maintain two completely separate codebases wouldn't be worth the hassle at all.
As for "like Reddit does":
They are owned by a massive company, they can afford to maintain the old site for at least a bit while they build the newer site out. XDA doesn't have the manpower or server power to do that.
It's only temporary, Reddit isn't gonna keep the old site around forever. Just like YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook when they did massive redesigns a couple years ago, the old site eventually shut down once they migrated 90-100% of the functionality over.
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Yeah I get that small team etc. But no one does an overnight overhaul with half of the features missing/not working. Even mobile app stopped working including the official app. That is very unprofessional. Most sane people would have them both side by side, for sometime, while fixing bugs on the new site and new app. This way users can still have a nice user experience, while getting familiar with newer website transition.
But, well what can I say, XDA is not my company. They can do whatever the heck they want.
bitpushr said:
This is not going to be possible, but we do have a classic theme if you want an older look.
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On individual forum it's not displaying the lastest post info on the main page forcing you to open each section. The global new posts section works fine.
Doesn't display the user stats on the poster's post as before; more blank, unused dead space.
The "thanks" is all goofed up.
Rather have a smart complicated gf than a pretty dumb one... as their beauty rapidly fades as you get to know them.
Im fine with the overhaul but come on, where are the files attachments on other posts? where are the links? if you will left those, then better shut down this BS forum.
rms112 said:
Yeah I get that small team etc. But no one does an overnight overhaul with half of the features missing/not working. Even mobile app stopped working including the official app. That is very unprofessional. Most sane people would have them both side by side, for sometime, while fixing bugs on the new site and new app. This way users can still have a nice user experience, while getting familiar with newer website transition.
But, well what can I say, XDA is not my company. They can do whatever the heck they want.
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You should know that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. This change didn't happen overnight. There was a significant userbase testing the new XenoForo interface for months prior to release so they did exist side by side. Thing is, a testing environment is never the same as the real deal so at the official launch so of course some quirks came up. If anything, you can say they have been working in a very professional manner to work those out. In the first 24 hours after releasing most major issues were already resolved. The biggest one right now is probably still some posts/threads missing. Change is never easy
infinitylook said:
Im fine with the overhaul but come on, where are the files attachments on other posts? where are the links? if you will left those, then better shut down this BS forum.
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The changes were announced a long time ago and the announcement was highlighted on top of every section of every subforum. Which are you missing anyway? I see my attachments (like this one) are still present. Mind that the migration is still not 100% complete yet.
Oh and if anyone is still feeling a bit homesick, remember that the web's archive is there for you! *CLICK!*