Related
i think it would be a good idea if a new session was made...that session will be a playground for all spammers and timewasters to play around always in the rules...
as i am in some other forums too i noticed that there is a session where you could post as many post you want but it wasnt count as post(for example if i have 100 posts and post 10 in this session i will have still 100 posts){that forum was v-bulletin too ,so ithink is possible for this forum too}
also this session will be good opportunity to clear the off topic session for threads like ban the person above you , youtube thread ,kill the person above you and others(also an opportunity to make more of this), so the off topic session will be used for discusssion.
i post that thought of mine because i think it will help the forum!!!
hope you will find my suggestion usefull!!!!!!
cheers
We do have the Off Topic Section, but the posts do count in there.
This is definitely something to think about. I'll run it up the flag pole.
JimmyMcGee said:
We do have the Off Topic Section, but the posts do count in there.
This is definitely something to think about. I'll run it up the flag pole.
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Click to collapse
I've seen some of the guys that frequent off-topic ask for it to not count towards posts quite a few times actually - you'll definitely get support for this. It's a sociable place where people get to know each other a bit better than the device forums, and it does get frustrating when new members decide to use it as a spamming arena to get their post count up.
+1 to this.
stamatis16 said:
i think it would be a good idea if a new session was made...that session will be a playground for all spammers and timewasters to play around always in the rules...
as i am in some other forums too i noticed that there is a session where you could post as many post you want but it wasnt count as post(for example if i have 100 posts and post 10 in this session i will have still 100 posts){that forum was v-bulletin too ,so ithink is possible for this forum too}
also this session will be good opportunity to clear the off topic session for threads like ban the person above you , youtube thread ,kill the person above you and others(also an opportunity to make more of this), so the off topic session will be used for discusssion.
i post that thought of mine because i think it will help the forum!!!
hope you will find my suggestion usefull!!!!!!
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We had touched upon this a few times in fact. Good to see that we are not alone in our line of thought
I have been following xda for over two years now but have never joined until a week ago. I have donated a lot of money to various developers and roms offer that time. But only through paypal and email. I have been afraid to join the forum as with my knowledge of Android then, i would only sound like an idiot. There needs to be a streamlined way to get rid of spammers while not discouraging noobs from learning. This can be Done by implementing the above ideas but i believe because of human nature and the fact xda has grown massively, there is no proven method to exclude perpetrators. Tyke main problem is that people cannot gauge their own level of expertise and so they stumble along, get flamed and essentially become spammers out of spite. When some person joins initially they should enter a primary site where their actions can be judged over a period of time. One their trial is complete they can then join the main xda forum. Moderators could focus their time and energy on this trial site and will find their jobs made easier and the main site free of moronic comments. Anyways, this can solve many of your problems and existing members would also refrain from breaking the rules because they will fear the drudgery of the trial site. I have seriously leant tons from the awesome people and knowledgeable developers here on xda. Thank you all and i look forward to supporting you until i am old and grey.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
slacker07 said:
I have been following xda for over two years now but have never joined until a week ago. I have donated a lot of money to various developers and roms offer that time. But only through paypal and email. I have been afraid to join the forum as with my knowledge of Android then, i would only sound like an idiot. There needs to be a streamlined way to get rid of spammers while not discouraging noobs from learning. This can be Done by implementing the above ideas but i believe because of human nature and the fact xda has grown massively, there is no proven method to exclude perpetrators. Tyke main problem is that people cannot gauge their own level of expertise and so they stumble along, get flamed and essentially become spammers out of spite. When some person joins initially they should enter a primary site where their actions can be judged over a period of time. One their trial is complete they can then join the main xda forum. Moderators could focus their time and energy on this trial site and will find their jobs made easier and the main site free of moronic comments. Anyways, this can solve many of your problems and existing members would also refrain from breaking the rules because they will fear the drudgery of the trial site. I have seriously leant tons from the awesome people and knowledgeable developers here on xda. Thank you all and i look forward to supporting you until i am old and grey.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love this. Unfortunately users wouldn't... But there are aspects of this that might help, I'll take them forwards, thanks
slacker07 said:
I have been following xda for over two years now but have never joined until a week ago. I have donated a lot of money to various developers and roms offer that time. But only through paypal and email. I have been afraid to join the forum as with my knowledge of Android then, i would only sound like an idiot. There needs to be a streamlined way to get rid of spammers while not discouraging noobs from learning. This can be Done by implementing the above ideas but i believe because of human nature and the fact xda has grown massively, there is no proven method to exclude perpetrators. Tyke main problem is that people cannot gauge their own level of expertise and so they stumble along, get flamed and essentially become spammers out of spite. When some person joins initially they should enter a primary site where their actions can be judged over a period of time. One their trial is complete they can then join the main xda forum. Moderators could focus their time and energy on this trial site and will find their jobs made easier and the main site free of moronic comments. Anyways, this can solve many of your problems and existing members would also refrain from breaking the rules because they will fear the drudgery of the trial site. I have seriously leant tons from the awesome people and knowledgeable developers here on xda. Thank you all and i look forward to supporting you until i am old and grey.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok that's a good idea and thanks for sharing it,
The problem is that not everyone new is noob about android, take example from yourself, when you joined you weren't noob, and with criteria will they be judged...
I think your idea deserve its own thread..
Ok can we go back to my suggestion?! Thanks
Sent from my X8 using xda premium
Well, I agree. The OT section is many times used as a spam section. There are many topics there which could be combined but they say hey, its off topic so theycan post whatever they want wherever.
I am not new to XDA, but do to me trying to learn and observe I am characterized as soon. Yet, I have been giving to the Community as a avid tester and user of the process, without causing negative harm. Yet, the developer site does not allow me to post or comment without regard to the ten post rule. I think this is a fair rule but needs a bit of tweaking. If a member has been on the site for over a 12 month period without punitive restrictions should have other ways to gain access to the site. I have donated to developers on numerous occasions and will continue to do so. Yet, because I am not in accordance with the guidelines as they stand, I am currently Banned. Yes, that is the correct way to describe my situation... Banned not restricted because new users are restricted. I am not a New user but one that have used more of the individual develop's site versus XDA and now being punished. I know some of the keyboard heroes will post nothing but negative crap, yet I will respond with the appropriate reaction.
Moved to About XDA section.
datruth_bates said:
I am not new to XDA, but do to me trying to learn and observe I am characterized as soon. Yet, I have been giving to the Community as a avid tester and user of the process, without causing negative harm. Yet, the developer site does not allow me to post or comment without regard to the ten post rule. I think this is a fair rule but needs a bit of tweaking. If a member has been on the site for over a 12 month period without punitive restrictions should have other ways to gain access to the site. I have donated to developers on numerous occasions and will continue to do so. Yet, because I am not in accordance with the guidelines as they stand, I am currently Banned. Yes, that is the correct way to describe my situation... Banned not restricted because new users are restricted. I am not a New user but one that have used more of the individual develop's site versus XDA and now being punished. I know some of the keyboard heroes will post nothing but negative crap, yet I will respond with the appropriate reaction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the fact that the site is punishing you, it's just that at the time of this thread, you were within the restriction limit. And the correct term is actually restricted because if you were banned, you wouldn't be able to post here Although I do realise what you're saying.
I can pretty safely say, from reading what the higher-ups have written on this kinda topic, that the 10-post rule will stay and there will be no way to work around it, other than making 10 constructive. 10 posts isn't hard to achieve if you help people out around your devices specific General and Q&A forums and also in the General section of the General forum and About xda-developers.com forum.
But as you've already made 12 posts, I don't really need to go into too much detail.
I hope this helped, atleast to some degree
Sent from Sony Xperia S using XDA Premium
Join my threads here and here.
Check out this [GUIDE] How to be a New User (and not a noob)
KidCarter93 said:
It's not the fact that the site is punishing you, it's just that at the time of this thread, you were within the restriction limit. And the correct term is actually restricted because if you were banned, you wouldn't be able to post here Although I do realise what you're saying.
I can pretty safely say, from reading what the higher-ups have written on this kinda topic, that the 10-post rule will stay and there will be no way to work around it, other than making 10 constructive. 10 posts isn't hard to achieve if you help people out around your devices specific General and Q&A forums and also in the General section of the General forum and About xda-developers.com forum.
But as you've already made 12 posts, I don't really need to go into too much detail.
I hope this helped, atleast to some degree
Sent from Sony Xperia S using XDA Premium
Join my threads here and here.
Check out this [GUIDE] How to be a New User (and not a noob)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will read up more on the topic and appreciate the response
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.
XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...
Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate
garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
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Click to collapse
Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
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Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome
So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.
Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:
What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98
@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread
Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
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Click to collapse
Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.
Hi all members of XDA,
whilst we as RC's do our very best to keep XDA as organized as possible by giving you all kind of solutions, like the Q&A/T Template project, the Index project and the Ask Away help project etc etc, these were all RC initiated projects. Although all of these projects were started with the best intentions, I realize now that we never asked what you as users wanted to keep XDA organized. By starting this thread, I want to ask you all, members of XDA, to ventilate your opinions what's missing on XDA and what you really want to accomplish your needs. I could start a poll for that, but I do not feel the need for that at this very moment. I always can start a poll after most wanted needs posted, but for now I only want to know what's living in our community and what is needed in your opinions that is missing at this very moment. Really hope that you will react on this post as much as possible, so I can see what you really need/miss . All reactions will be answered by me (or, hopefully, fellow RC's) and, based on your reactions, I will start a new thread regarding your wishes, based on the most mentioned issue. If there are more important issues, there will be started of course more threads to cope with these "issues".
Everbody, from junior member, member, senior member and also RC's/RD's, are invited to react.
kindest regards and hoping for a lot of reactions, kuzibri
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Art Vanderlay said:
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option so they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will have a thorough look into that, cause I still think that the Q&A/T template thread is a very good way to organize XDA.
kindest regards, kuzbri
Delete
Art Vanderlay said:
Delete
Click to expand...
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Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know my friend and most of them are useless and senseless. That's why I think we should restart the Q&A/T project. I know we have to approach dev's to join this project, but when we are able to convince, certainly the dev's linked to devdb, that this is a dead end street, we stand a good chance. Only restriction IMO is the willingness of other RC's help to restart this project again. Will you join Art and me? IMO this is the only way to prove that it was not a good idea by XDA to start these bot threads with no personal OP. I'm still willing to create a lot of Q&A/T threads as possible when we can dev's prove that this is the way to keep their original dev thread as clean as possible and XDA as organized as possible.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Q&A/T Template project
Hi,
already send a PM to a non-devdb related dev to join our Q&A/T project. Let's see what happens:fingers-crossed:.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Darth said:
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Darth said:
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
Trafalgar Square said:
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure about this but DevDB Q&A bots are gone.
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, with no real intention of actually getting it, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I highly doubt any change in the foreseeable future. In a couple years, I envision XDA as a wasteland of Root Bounty threads and people complaining about Xposed not working.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with this 100 percent. Also IMHO the post rule should be raised to 100 posts before posts in development. If they can contribute have them message the OP and if the OP thinks they can contribute then lift the limit for said user on said thread. I cannot tell you how many threads I just don't even bother reading after seeing a couple posts than are just as easily answered by googling questions.
Often even new R&D threads are just placeholders where people hope a "dev" will come chime in and then they can piggy back off of that. The whole culture has changed and its horrible and sad to see this. Also there is very little structure or general polling of those that drive the ideas and development this site thrives on. I definitely get the feeling the site is moving more towards generating traffic and less towards being a content driven site.
Sadly I think a lot of people are on board with the change.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I understand your disappointment and frustration. Since we both joined XDA in 2008, XDA has grown to such a very large community that it needs very clear rules to be maintaned/managed as best as possible. Therefore it is for XDA not possible anymore to keep every member satisfied. Of course a lot has changed, sometimes leading to better results and sometimes not, but that's the reality. Besides that, the amount of different devices has grown enourmously, making the work of Mods, Admins and even higher not easier. I still see and know a lot of competent users who are willing to contribute to this community. I also know a lot of Mods and Admins with the best intentions to make XDA better. In summary: the purpose of this thread is to get/receive new ideas how to make XDA better organized in the future and/or add features to XDA that are now missing. That's my mission.
kindest regards, kuzibri
To all forum readers and lurkers, welcome to a new and experimental section of the forums! The PC Hardware forums are part of our expansion into a limited discussion of PC hardware for our enthusiasts and developers. So while the normal forum rules apply you may notice that things here will be slightly different and a work in progress.
Here's what you can expect in each of the forums within here:
PC Hardware Portal Article Discussion is where the portal team will be posting a new thread for each article on the category. While Disqus isn't a bad option it's also a very limited one in comparison to our forum membership - and so we'd like to try moving some of that discussion here. It also gives us the ability to give some behind-the-scenes updates and additional content that may not fit the Portal well, such as build logs and photos of projects we're working on for Portal articles.
Forum members are more than welcome to continue the discussion but new threads will only be created by us here. If you want to carry on a discussion of a different topic, we have you covered.
The PC Hardware For Linux Developers section is ideally for continuing the discussion and talking about topics near and dear to our developers' hearts. Whether you're just starting out and want to know how to build your own kernel/ROM, set up a kitchen to theme, or something more advanced... if it's about Linux this is the place to talk about it!
While the name doesn't call it out specifically it's well known that a subset of developers use Mac OS X instead - feel free to post in here too on your topics. To help clarify we ask that the prefix [OSX] be used so readers know this deals with a Mac-specific topic.
Lastly our PC Hardware General is for all other discussions under the sun and related to the topic. We're not looking to replace your go-to sites but rather foster a conversation in addition to that. And while we certainly understand that these discussions can get "heated" we ask that people treat each other with the same civility and respect as you would anywhere else on the XDA forums.
Your moderation team can be found in the upper right hand corner under "Moderators." Please feel free to contact us if there are any questions/concerns. In addition you will likely find me around here quite often - part of my job as PC Hardware Editor is to help foster those discussions. And we'll be watching to see how this develops - if we need to split this up further you may see additional forums being added or moved here to better keep the related discussions together!
Thank you for your continued time and support of XDA!