Hi,
I'm using a Canadian Galaxy S4, SGH-I337M.
Rooted, running on Liquidsmooth 4.4.4 ROM. Also has Ktoonsez kernel. It is currently undervolted+underclock a bit, and is stable (I could overclock it, but I don't. No need).
Been wondering for a long time about the operating CPU temperatures of the Galaxy S4... Never had the possibility to do testing with CPU temperatures before. I do have a LG P500 that I have overclocked a ton in the past, still work just fine, but the LG P500 is old and do not support viewing CPU temperature, so it's my first time experimenting with that.
How hot would be too hot for this phone? There are several opinions, but never figured out if I... "minimize" the risks of my actual temperatures, for some reason. My laptop CPU throttle at 85 celcius for instance. While it's a phone, it's completely different.
At night, while connected to charger, it would be pretty cool, at 25-30 degrees when I wake up;
I would say that most of the time, my CPU is running at 50 celsius, and rarely ever exceed 65-70 under normal use, or even gaming. Plus, the CPU is undervolted and a bit underclock, so I do feel like it run cooler than usual.
Quoting Meowmix from Rogers forums:
It varies on the usage of everyone else & how you handle the phone ( cases & such). Also if you are in extreme heat or having the device in direct sunlight.
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So, the case does matter? I do have that Otterbox case which is pretty tight and enclose the phone pretty well, I would believe that the phone would get less.. air.. but I mean, it's just a case, didn't thought it would affect much..?
Quoting Ahmed from AndroidCentral Forums, I would say that I have a quite similar situation.
No, just when i ran AnTutu when it runs the 4 cores at the maximum frequency the temperature is between 80-91c, and at normal use while surfing the internet the temp. 45-55c and the battery reaches 38c after an hour of continuous using.
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I CAN reach 80-90 celsius, but only if I really want it to happen. 38 celsius for the battery is also correct, I never exceeded 41 degrees yet, on any Android phone (I don't know the dangerous battery temps.. But when I reach 40 degrees I try to put it down as fast as possible). With benchmarks, usually at the max frequency, or testing my undervolt with Stability Test, I CAN reach 80-90 celsius, which look really high. Additionally, I would remind that I don't overclock, and the CPU is undervolted so seems a bit cooler.
So on AndroidCentral, this is the reply Ahmed got, from "CR6" user:
I had to use my temp converter to look up & convert them to Fahrenheit. 80-91c equates to 176-195 Fahrenheit and that's extremely dangerous. These temps will not only physically burn you, but will fry your phone if you continue using it at these temperatures. 45-55c equates to 113-131 degrees Fahrenheit, and that is normal under really heavy usage. Optimally, you'd like to keep it at 38-45c. You may have a defective device if you regularly see temps over 80c and I would advise checking on a replacement.
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THAT dangerous? Well, I don't phisically feel the heat - I do feel it, but since I have that phone case, that doesn't hurt at all. But like I mentionned, I never reach 80 celcius or more unless doing benchmarks. Usually I never exceed 65-70. But still it left me wondering - Why does Android allow such high temperatures in first place? Isn't the system suppose to shut down at some point in case of danger, and when?
I've also experimented with thermal throttling in the Ktoonsez kernel, and the throttling values of the ROMs. Touchwiz Stock ROM with DVFS disabled, seems to throttle at 80 celsius, look decent. Liquidsmooth AOSP ROM, stock kernel, does not seem to throttle at all (Huh)! Once, and that was exceptionnal, I've reached 100 CELSIUS using Wifi, connect to a charger after like 2 hours, room temperature was very warm, was not surprised, but when I noticed I reached 100 CELSISUS, I was WOAW, I should shut down. I did reached 100 degrees again, using Stability Test at max frequency after a few minutes. Needless to say I manually stopped the test, because I had no idea how much heat the phone could handle...
So been aware of this, "Ktweaker" app, for the Ktoonsez kernel I use now, does have a thermal throttling option, but I wondering which thermal value should I enter for best "performance"? Default was 70 degrees, I set mine at 80, I've heard of people even putting 90 for the same kernel. Besides, maybe I worry about it too much, because in no way the phone should exceed 70 degrees celcius under normal use anyway, or even gaming. Only way to reach insane temperatures would be benchmarking/stress testing...
Still, first time seeing these CPU temperatures also. I've overclocked my LG P500 several times in the past, dealing sometimes with random reboot, so make stability/overheating questionnable, but the device did not supported seeing the actual CPU temp. So I don't know which temperatures would be considered normal - probably, nothing above 75-80, correct (For the Galaxy S4, actually)?
(Jason) said:
(From another thread)
I do know it can run up to about 180 before hitting critical and shutting down
Edit: its about a 75 degree ambient temp where im at.
Tapped² from my I5³5
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At which point is the device supposed to shut down? Is that in the kernel or a hardware CPU trigger? Because heck, I've reached 100 degrees 2 times, I mean, how far/close was I from a shut down? I'm quite surprised.
I've also read of people complaining of S4 overheating, especially maybe after it was released - It's possible that it heats up more than other phones, but honnestly I have no idea.
Thanks for your answer =)
Going thru this exact same thing. Same temps. This is not normal. Mines just started happening one day. Idk how or exactly when
Kennii said:
Going thru this exact same thing. Same temps. This is not normal. Mines just started happening one day. Idk how or exactly when
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Thank you for your answer;
Used to think some temps look normal to me - Besides, since I've undervolted last week, it's stable and run cooler, maybe better battery as well. I never can exceed 70 degrees even when gaming I supose..
I can reach 80 degrees, but only when benchmarking or stability testing, so I'm not worried, but I do wonder;
I've reached 100 degrees 2 times, once while doing a stability test at 1,89 GHz for like 5 minutes (or more), I had to manually stop. And last time was long ago, watched YouTube videos in bed, like under covers ha, maybe as well connected to charger. Not even surprised I've reach such temps after a while in such conditions, under covers, just no air (Used to do it with my LG P500 too. While I never was able to see the CPU temps on this device. Even then, LG P500 still works, but guessing build quality was much better). Needless to say I was like WOAW when I've noticed 100 degrees, and just put the phone down. Probably went from 80 to 100 quickly, didn't noticed that fast. But yeah, that 100 degrees was.. almost expected under such conditions.
I just really wonder about thermal throttling. Like I've mentionned, stock Touchwiz with DVSF disabled seems to throttle at 80, while KTweaker app for a different AOSP kernel have the default temp limit set to 70. Liquidsmooth ROM, AOSP, does not seem to have a throttling point, since I've reached 100 degrees 2 times with it (Don't intend to test 100 degrees again, huh). What would be the maximum ideal temp for throttling? Maybe I think about it too much, since under normal circumstances, I never exceed 70 degrees, besides benchmarks.
Also wondered at which temp is the phone supposed to shut down... 120 degrees?! XD Because 100 seems ridiculous to me, probably is, but yeah, my laptop throttle at 85, and it's a laptop (Intel Core i3) - Can't imagine a phone going any higher without any risk.
Thanks for the feedback
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
AFAIK Microsoft intended to fit an innovative kind of heat sink into their Lumia 950 and finally produced a standard design w/o particular cooling devices due to difficulties.
I have no clue how anything could be done. Except replacing the back cover with something thicker, offering room for heatsinks, fans, peltier elements or such.
But the Note should at least have thermal throttling and emergency shutdown features, like all current phones, which will throttle within the first half minute under full load.
franzli said:
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
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Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Thanks for your answers so far!
@lecorbusier yes, I suspect it has throttling, but in the interest of better running it would be nice to avoid throttling when possible. I'm not sure about the effect on battery life - throttling might be good in that a reduced frequency might need less energy, but running hot in the first place is probably bad for battery life.
In fact, part of my problem might stem from either the ROM or some apps I am running - Squid on temasek's CM13. Maybe I just never noticed this before, or didn't use squid so often, but I've noticed that the last couple of days CPU gets up to over 70°C at times with just some writing in squid. Not sure if this is normal, will probably post it in the CM13 thread. But my general idea/wish to improve cooling still stands independently of that.
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
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That sounds like an effective method (and I guess in a way one might call it a mod ). I'm thinking about something more portable, and hence passive though.
I will probably try opening up and having a look at the current cooling mechanism to see if adding a copper shim or a better silicone heat sink etc. might help things. Another consideration would be a modded case that contains some metal instead of plastic on the back side. That might help to take away some of the heat even though the plastic back of the device itself probably remains a poor heat conductor. Might be a complicated mod, but I'll see if I can come up with a way to do that. If/when I manage to get something done, or some new thoughts, I will advise here.
Any further input of course still very welcome!
Metal will disturb the various antennas.
A back cover replacement containing one or two fans, adding 1 to 2cms of thickness, and draining the battery with the fans while looking clumsy, thats the "best" solution I could imagine.
Or a back cover replacement containing one or two copper plates, cut and arranged in a way that the antennas aren't too handicapped. Probably you have to remove the various EMI shields to be able to establish direct contact between the chipset and the plates. That is, if the chips don't have contact with the shield plates.
I think this will be something never been done before, but probably after.
Like the battery mod for phones, where you solder one battery together with a second one and cut a hole in the back cover, that the now double-thick battery may fit. That's already been done.
Good point about the antennae, I hadn't thought about that! That also makes sense of the lack of metal cases (facepalm). Might still try modding a case with some metal in some spots at some points, but good to keep in mind how this might impact wifi and bluetooth.
My plan was to see if there'd be a chance to fit some slim copper plates in strategic position on top of the CPU inside the normal case. I'll have to open it up and see how much, if any, space there is - but will probably try this first on a Galaxy Tab S 8.4 that I rely on less for productivity (and that does actually get way to hot, to the point of self-shutdown). Whenever I find the time that is...
Will report when I get around to doing anything on the Note (and might open a topic at the Tab S forum in case I do try a mod there first).
I added a copper shim for cooling to my Galaxy Tab S (will put a more detailed post on that forum when I find some time), which seems to have helped to control temperatures somewhat better. I had two odd crashes, but had some before I did the mod, so am relatively confident that's a problem of the ROM rather than my mod.
Will probably try it on my Note as well soon and report here for anyone who might be interested.
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
franzli said:
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
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Thanks for the update. I did some baseline checks for you, using the same StabilityTest app for consistancy purposes. I am also on temaseks build, cm13 more specifically. I run temaseks 12.1 build just as often as the cm13, so I will run the tests there as well. I revert back to my stock rooted kitkat rom about 1 or 2 days per week so I'll check the temps on that ROM as well.
So, at idle I'm a little warmer than you, hovering between 37C and 40C. Under normal use (like web browsing) I'm between 50C and no higher than 57C. Under stress (again, using same app) I was at 90C at 5 minutes and 91C after 10 minutes. So slightly warmer on low end, nearly identical on the big end. I have the samsung flip cover thats specifically made to fit the 2014 edition on mine, so that could account for my slightly warmer temps. Its worth noting that when gaming on a VERY cpu demanding game, I never reach anything above 78C. Its probably one of the top 10 most cpu demanding games on play store and BY FAR the most I ever demand from my CPU, consuming a whooping 1.5-2Gb of RAM at times.
I'll check the numbers on my other 2 normally used ROMs here in the next few hours and I'll post those results too :good:
On a side note, my galaxy s6 phone (completely stock, near new) averages nearly indentical cpu temps and after researching the matter on it, I found that those temps (on the s6) are what others are getting as well. So it seems that, generally speaking, samsungs might just run with warmer temperatures. I did see somewhere that 100C is kinda the 'YIKES!' point for them and that they start clocking down around that temp to prevent permanent damage
franzli said:
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
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Ok, I've done some testing with a few different ROMs and I think you might be as susprised with the results as I am. First of all I need to correct myself in my last post. The initial testing I did was on temaseks unofficial CM12.1 build, not on the CM13 build. I have now tested on temaseks cm 12.1 and cm13 builds, my stock rooted & debloated 4.4.2 ROM and an old nandroid backup I have of hyperdrives 4.4.2 ROM. Heres what I found...
Temaseks CM13 build ran the hottest and was by far the most stressful on the processors and therefore ran the hottest. It consistantly kept the CPU clocked at near max (even when set to "ondemand"), whether needed or not (with no background process running) and would only reduce power when forced via CPU governor or was at the safety threshold for temperature, which I can now comfortably say is about 95C. Tablet was slightly warm to the touch at idle with a temperature of between 50C & 55C. Under moderate load temperature jumped very raidly to the mid 80C range and then would stay there pretty steadily. Under heavy load, CPU temp quickly peaked at 94C where while watching the CPU output, it was obvious the CPUs were going in & out of protection mode as they would drop to 1600MHz, then peak at 1900MHz, 1600MHz, 1900MHz & repeat this. I didnt let this go on for more than about 2 min before shutting down and allowing tablet to cool.
Next, I repeated tests on both touchwiz based kitkat ROMs I have backups for. 1 of them is stock, rooted, debloated and un"tweaked". The other is stock, rooted, debloated and tweaked. Both ran MUCH cooler, peaking at 80C & 82C. These were ocassional spikes and actually averaged around 75C when under heavy load. Now comes the good news...
I have identified a major contributor of excessive CPU temps. When testing on the touchwiz ROMs and observing CPU clocking in relation to CPU temps, I found that the governors are set lower in these touchwiz ROMs. They were a steady 1300MHz with the occasional 1600MHz spike. They averaged 55C to 63C under moderate load and when under heavy load never reached more than 82C.
So, I am now back on my long time daily driver, temaseks cm12. 1 build and I'm ditching the CM13 build entirely. At least for now. I have set my CPU governors down to 1300MHz and with heavy load for nearly 30 minutes (gaming) my CPU peaked at 85C. So my findings were that CM ROM has overclocked the CPUs excessively. They are set to 1900MHz, which has become obvious to me brings them right up to their temperature safety threshold, 95C. It seems Samsung clocked them at 1300MHz and allowed for occasional spikes above this point, keeping them at a maxium & slightly more reasonable 85C a full 10C cooler than their maximum safe operating temp.
I never expected I'd stumble on not only a source, but also that I've been utilizing the solution for months. I should add that governing the CPU lower has had absolutely no effect on performance. I regularly shut down 1 or 2 CPU cores as it is. I found that the tablet will run perfectly under normal use with only 2 cores. This reduces temperature and increases battery life. Sluthing can be so much fun sometimes, it was right in front of my face I just never put 2 & 2 together lol :good:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
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Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
thebadwrench said:
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
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Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
ollimi1 said:
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
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I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
thebadwrench said:
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
View attachment 3732472
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Yeah, good news!
I am positive surprised that kernel Adiutor is working, seems we have build-in UCI, which is needed, nice! Using KA on my OP2 since a long time but there is no custom kernel for p600 cm13 roms so I have not tried!
Will try it now!:good:
Thanks!!
thebadwrench said:
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
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I replaced the silicone heat pad on the CPU with a copper shim and thermal compound, added some small silicone pads around other components (all under the heat shields) and added a .5mm silicone heat pad on top of the main heat shield to enhance contact with the back plate. I do have some pictures, but I want to provide a proper write-up and currently don't have much time as I'm moving. Will hopefully find a chance to give a more detailed write-up in May - sorry for the delay, but full report is forthcoming!
As for the CM13 issues, @joshndroid apparently implemented some changes to it in the last build, so I might check that out, although I agree that CM12.1 is probably still the safer bet for a stable daily driver.
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
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Hi Franzli,
The kernel seems odd to me!
The small A7 cluster is virtually unused and clocked only to 650MHz @ 1200ma !! Normal is 1.3GHz @ 1200ma for the small A7 cluster on 5420! Also a lot of warnings and errors in ksmg!
No idea whether the A7 ever used or permanently in idle mode, Lol!
Also all 4 big a15 cores are always online, what means no hotplug driver available!
I don't know if we will ever see a good kernel for CM13 because of the missing sources.
Although the kernel is running and mostly stable it is far from "good"!
Power consumption is almost doubled, problems with overheating and sometimes cpu is locked at max. speed and the only way to solve it is a reboot.
I don't remember the cm12.1 kernel but he was definately better in terms of battery runtimes and reliability.
BTW, I'll also mod the device cooling using bigger copper sheets instead of the perforated aluminum sheets, thermal-pads and thermal-grease when I start changing my battery and usb jack, what is definately neccessary in my case!
Maybe I will buy one of the small heatpipes used in S7 or so when I find them somewhere.
It is not difficult to adjust it if needed, so that it can replace the heatspreader.
Mabye it is needed to isolate the heatpipe from the mainboard but nothing what a piece of kapton tape not can do.
franzli said:
Hi all!
[...] But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures [...]
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? [...]
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Hallo there
Well I just did the job. I have also made a short manual and would like to share it with you. But first some things about me and my tablet.
I bought a used galaxy note 10.1 2014 edition SM-P600 couple months ago. I was really disappointed about the device performance. Switching from stock android 5.1 to [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] did some improvements in performance. But since I am a very heavy web surfer I was still not satisfied with the performance. I have also tried [P600][Touchwiz] Marshmallow Rom 20170622 and went back to RR because I can play around with the CPU governors and all that deathy audiutor stuff. Between very nice work Exynos Team and all the other developers...
Soon I realized that the SM-P600 becomes fairly hot in the backside. I took a look at the ifixit pictures. There was no other way finding good resolution pictures of the inside.
I ended up installing cool tool app. Well is there any other good app for monitoring temps, clock and load in overly?
Well so I added frequency, load, battery temp and cpu temp. You need to add cpu temp manually. I guess it is Label ->
custom label -> enable- Then you have to go fine tuning -> custom label -> path:/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp. leace everything as it is. regex is (\d+)\d{3} and add postfix °C and prefix cpu:
.
So I went along and analysed heat and temps in the galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. Especially frequency-temp-ratio. And I can tell you this buddy is everything else than cool. Temps jump up so fast I can't tell you. Even some fast scrolling on ebay, facebook desktop web page in browser treated the Temperature to the hight 80s and soon the high 90s. I have also seen the things franzli mentioned before. Even light work put so much heat to the processor. Watching the frequency and temperature bounce was a pain. I could feel the pain that little Exynos 5420 must suffer of all the time.Throttling is the only ways this little buddy can survive To make it short I decided to do the cooling mod...
So lets see what I found on my journey ... I can tell you that's a big surprise
I opened the case very easily. You can find tons of videos on youtube or use ifixit.
Well I have to mention I am an electronics hardware engineer. So doing this stuff is nothing unique for me. And I have years of professional PCB manufacturing, repair experience.
Opening the case, adding some tape and this is what you get...
As you can see there is a little thermal pad applied to the aluminium shielding. And boooom there you are . Do you see all thet flux solder remains? How come samsung? Seriously?
This is the shielding close up with that thermal pad.
As you can see the FBGA package is covered with flux from soldering. So it is naturally, that the cooling in the galaxy is a pain. There can't bee any good heat flow.
So let's check that thermal pad.
woops that little buddy is kinda to small. I am sad to see this.
Well I cleaned the surface as good as I can with ethanol. After this I applied a new Thermal pad.
After that it looked like this.
Then I closed the shielding case and cleaned it.
So next comes the actual cooling mod. I added a big thermal pad.
I had to cut that little hook in the back plate. So that the 100mmx100mm copper layer will fit in shape.
And this is it done.
So what about the results :laugh:
The back plate fits perfectly. If you know there is a thin layer of copper you can feel it. But it is so less. I had no problem closing the case. Ahh yeah I had to tage it with double sided tape, so it is pressed down to the thermal. The back plate will do the rest pressure.
And really don't worry about the wifi interference. There is no worry. Because the copper layer is located on top of the bettery pack and shielding case. Why should there be any interference? I have tried. Reaching same wifi performance as always. No worries:good:
So what about heating. Well my galaxy note stays pretty cool.
I need to mention this is all mesured with the [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] I mentioned before.
I used interactive governor.
I reach in Antutu v6.2.7 about 57000 to 58000
In futuremark work 2.0 I get 4000
Here some pics
I am sorry for that high resolution pics. But I wanted best of (bad) quality. I used my redmi note 4 for taking pictures. If you can't read all in the pics, just open in new window.
There isn't any more throttling at all. It is hard to push to 85°C or above now. Just with synthetic GPU and CPU load on all four cores at once. And it takes a couple of minutes. But in real world you will never get it. With only load on one core my maximum is 69 to 72°C. The tablet fells pretty nice now. The warming in the back plate is reduced to a very large surface. So sometimes it fells as if your hands warm up the case.
Can you suggest me any ROm with a good overclocking potential? I have already tried this ROM. I really don't know why, but it keeps crashing all the time at 2GHz or 2.1 GHz. Even with no load at all. I guess the used kernel is bad.
Do you have any ROM suggestion for me.
If you have any quastions and things you want me to test write me.
Just wanted to share my experience with you. I didn't expect a dirty PCB, BGA and thermal pad like this. So what do you think about this.
Everywhere I looked they said that the OnePlus 3 has the least thermal throttling and best sustained performance of any phone out there. But nobody discussed why exactly it did not throttle while other phones did. Everyone simply said "Oh they must have very good thermal management or something". Then I saw a video comparing the temperatures of the ZTE axon 7 and the OnePlus 3 (google "Zte axon 7 vs OnePlus 3 antutu thermal throttling"), it turns out the reason the OnePlus 3 doesn't throttle isn't some magical thermal dissipation and management, it's solely because they raised the temperature at which the phone would throttle to beyond comfortable zones. In the video with just a few iterations of Antutu CPU test, the OnePlus 3 metal skin's temperature reached a scorching 47 degrees Celcius. Google shows that holding anything metal at 50 degrees Celcius for more than a brief moment can cause tissue damage (1st degree burns). And this phone was just shy of that temperature during Antutu's benchmarks when only the CPU was running, so can you imagine what temperatures it would reach when you're playing a highly graphical game where both CPU and GPU are being taxed at the same time? Why does nobody talk about this?
nothing to worry about IMO
Roykooiman said:
nothing to worry about IMO
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Thank you for your useless opinion friend.
The only game i play on the one plus it's hearthstone but I don't notice an high temperature during session ... I think a benchmark it's one of the most stressful things you can do with your smartphone...
sent from my brain using a spell
nardustyle said:
The only game i play on the one plus it's hearthstone but I don't notice an high temperature during session ... I think a benchmark it's one of the most stressful things you can do with your smartphone...
sent from my brain using a spell
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No actually Hearthstone is not a demanding game at all, not even remotely. In fact an iphone 4 could run it without busting a sweat. And many games can actually be more stressful than a benchmark because you would be running both CPU and GPU at the same time and would likely be running the GPU at 100%. Most GPU benchmarks run the GPU at 100% too but without using the CPU at the same time.
A non issue imo
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=CrK3C9VLuTg
ohyesman said:
A non issue imo
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=CrK3C9VLuTg
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I can't figure out why the hell that idiot in the video used real racing as a benchmark. Do these people even know what a GPU or CPU is?
Anyway, that video is not reliable, especially since the OnePlus 3 uses a 1080p display and has to push far less pixels than those other phones, that game does not tax the phone's hardware in any way shape or form.
The CPU starts throttling at 75°C like pretty much any other phone out there... This thing just dissipates heat better than any other Android phone out there which is why the chassis heats up a bit more. Don't worry it doesn't get that hot at all
crzykiller said:
This thing just dissipates heat better than any other Android phone out there which is why the chassis heats up a bit more. Don't worry it doesn't get that hot at all
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Proof?
Pong Lenis said:
Proof?
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The fact that there's a lot of us out here using the phone, but as far as I've seen zero reports of people getting burnt by hot phones, in. Y experience it stays way cooler to the touch than either of my last two phones (Xperia z2 and Samsung s3).
Attached below is a picture of my Hardware activity while playing Power Rangers Legacy Wars which admittedly is a graphically intense games but I'm worried that the temperature of the GPU and or CPU is getting too high. I want to make sure my Note 4 isn't getting too hot here is the picture:
I need somebody's help. The coolest my Note 4 seems to get is about 53 degrees C and that's when I turn it on after it's been asleep on my desk. It is not a rogue app or anything like that because I have done both Factory resets and I have install custom roms, so everything has been factory reset multiple times. The water damage sticker indicates no water damage whatsoever. I know phones can get hot when gaming, my Note 4 gets to anywhere between 70 to 85 degrees Celsius and I am just wondering if that's normal I reduced my screen resolution to 720P and disabled two cores of the quad core processor and it does not seem to help one bit. Is this temperature normal or do I need to get rid of the phone?
PS when doing normal browsing it seems to hover around 60 to 67 degrees C
And the battery does not seem to go over 37 degrees Celsius
If you're worried about high temps during games I'd recommend turning the max GPU frequency down. It significantly reduced my temps and I didn't notice a significant difference in gameplay.
Thank you for your response. I have done that and it does not seem to make a difference I'm still getting CPU and GPU temperatures in the high 70s to low 80s
bucs9115 said:
Thank you for your response. I have done that and it does not seem to make a difference I'm still getting CPU and GPU temperatures in the high 70s to low 80s
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Would you mind posting a screenshot as above with the same overlay? How long are you playing before it gets to this point? Have you adjusted throttling temperatures?
Edit: Saw your other post and wanted to add some troubleshooting. When you open up TWRP and do a file transfer or backup how hot does your phone get? Mine would get pretty hot to the touch, but I don't remember it getting above 80 C.....
The temps you showed in the other thread are definitely not "normal" from my experience with day-to-day use. Did you ever look at the task monitor app I linked to?
Sure I can take another screenshot. How do you want it? I did check out that app and the only thing that I saw was that it seems as though my CPU cores were always running pretty high but I didn't see any applications taking up and unusual amount of processing power. The temperature ranges to about 60 as soon as I open a game for the most part and continues to slowly rise from there. Yes that's about the temperature I get everytime I go into TWRP. I don't even have to be doing anything I'm just open TWRP work and that's about the temperature I get
bucs9115 said:
Sure I can take another screenshot. How do you want it? I did check out that app and the only thing that I saw was that it seems as though my CPU cores were always running pretty high but I didn't see any applications taking up and unusual amount of processing power. The temperature ranges to about 60 as soon as I open a game for the most part and continues to slowly rise from there. Yes that's about the temperature I get everytime I go into TWRP. I don't even have to be doing anything I'm just open TWRP work and that's about the temperature I get
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Sorry, I posted that before I noticed your updated screenshot. I was just curious if limiting the GPU made any difference.
Honestly I'm running out of software suggestions. Do you have some sort of case/screen protector that could be affecting it? How hot us your screen (qualitatively)? I just looked at an old video I made and my phone was 52 C in TWRP, which isn't too far off from yours so it might be fine (as I said my phone screen would get too hot to touch at times during intense games). But if you look at kernel adiutor and see that the CPU rarely drops to the lowest frequency/deep sleep there's probably something wrong (unless your screen is constantly on). You could try a different kernel or governor, or check an app like gsm battery monitor to see if GPS or something us hogging CPU time, but I don't really have any more ideas. (Although I did used to cool off my screen with a wet towel when it got really hot)
Just to confirm: you're running a Verizon note 4 right? (Have to ask)
You've updated the modem to the correct version through Odin?
You're on the proper bootloader?
First of all thank you for your help once again. I don't know how to measure how hot my screen gets I don't have any tools that would allow me to do that I do have a case and screen protector on but it doesn't seem to be any worse than it was before I put them on. Yes I am on the correct bootloader and I do have a Verizon Note 4 running the nseven ROM and I am on the correct modem. I'm willing to do anything at this point. This is the second note 4 I've had with this issue and I just want to be able to use it. I want to be able to play my games and stuff you know. So if there's a literally anything I can do . plus I don't really have money for a replacement
bucs9115 said:
First of all thank you for your help once again. I don't know how to measure how hot my screen gets I don't have any tools that would allow me to do that I do have a case and screen protector on but it doesn't seem to be any worse than it was before I put them on. Yes I am on the correct bootloader and I do have a Verizon Note 4 running the nseven ROM and I am on the correct modem. I'm willing to do anything at this point. This is the second note 4 I've had with this issue and I just want to be able to use it. I want to be able to play my games and stuff you know. So if there's a literally anything I can do . plus I don't really have money for a replacement
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I found this: https://forums.androidcentral.com/s...bout-cpu-temperatures-according-cpu-z-s6.html
Which shows some pretty high temperatures during heavy and normal loads for a G4 and some other forum discussing how their note 4 would reboot due to overheating. Since you're not experiencing that issue I'm not sure you need to worry too much. Your processor should be throttling itself if it's getting to hot to make sure it doesn't get damaged. I'd try to make sure that you limit your gpu to around 300 and then just make sure your CPU isn't overclocked and you will probably be fine. My note 4 would get so hot that I couldn't touch the screen, but it still ran like a champ and never rebooted on me. The only thing that is concerning is that your CPU clock specs aren't sticking, but you'll need to read around for how to fix that since I've never had an issue.
Okay well that makes me feel a whole lot better thank you. According to GSMArena the processor speed of the Note 4 is 2.7 gigahertz and mine is currently running at 2.4 so while it is a little upsetting that I can't bring it down any further, at least I know again according to GSMArena that my processor is not overclocked. Thank you for everything