Greetings,
My couzin and I both bought FireTVs around the same time.
He bought his from Amazon directly where I got mine from Staples.
I have been noticing that his FireTV is smoother and run faster specially when using XBMC. The channels cache better and get accessed faster.
I wonder if there are different "Hardware" versions of the device and the ones from amazon are the newer updated versions.
We run the same Firmware also.
The only difference is that his TV is 42" and mine is 56". Would driving a bigger screen and higher resolution slow the device?
I also checked the "system info" from inside XBMC and found that we both usually have half the 2G memory free.
We also have the same XBMC version "Gotham 13.2".
Are there any benchmark apps I could run on both devices to verify any difference in speed?
Any help is highly appreciated.
hisnawi said:
Greetings,
My couzin and I both bought FireTVs around the same time.
He bought his from Amazon directly where I got mine from Staples.
I have been noticing that his FireTV is smoother and run faster specially when using XBMC. The channels cache better and get accessed faster.
I wonder if there are different "Hardware" versions of the device and the ones from amazon are the newer updated versions.
We run the same Firmware also.
The only difference is that his TV is 42" and mine is 56". Would driving a bigger screen and higher resolution slow the device?
I also checked the "system info" from inside XBMC and found that we both usually have half the 2G memory free.
We also have the same XBMC version "Gotham 13.2".
Are there any benchmark apps I could run on both devices to verify any difference in speed?
Any help is highly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can only think of his tv being 720p. lower resolution is faster. but i run it at 1080p and do not notice anything slow.
you could try Antutu benchmark but that needs a mouse i believe
You are correct. His TV is indeed 720 and mine is 1080. But could it be that?
Can I change the resolution of mye FireTV and match his 720 just to test it out?
Also, How do I get this benchmark and run it? Is it like an App that I can side load?
I have bluetooth mouse that I can hook to the FireTV that is not a problem.
You should transfer the video file over to the firetv first and then play it otherwise you would have to have them on the same network to really do any accurate testing.
It is actually a video add-on that I notice the difference in performance with, it streams over the network from their servers.
I ran Antutu benchmark and came up to 24950 on my FireTV.
I will run it on his and report the results.
Also, it was brought up in the first response that driving 1080P TV could have an effect on performance vs driving 720P.
This could be true, but I am skeptical to the fact that running the benchmark with the TV "OFF" would change the test results.
hisnawi said:
It is actually a video add-on that I notice the difference in performance with, it streams over the network from their servers.
I ran Antutu benchmark and came up to 24950 on my FireTV.
I will run it on his and report the results.
Also, it was brought up in the first response that driving 1080P TV could have an effect on performance vs driving 720P.
This could be true, but I am skeptical to the fact that running the benchmark with the TV "OFF" would change the test results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
caching the channel info and accessing the videos quicker over the internet would probably indicate your cousin has a faster connection than you do. are you seeing lower FPS in videos ? that could be XBMC codec issues. sometimes they seem to be borky regardless of how you have them set in the settings.
your antutu score is pretty on par with normal.. so i dont think theres anything wrong with the FTV itself.
hisnawi said:
You are correct. His TV is indeed 720 and mine is 1080. But could it be that?
Can I change the resolution of mye FireTV and match his 720 just to test it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would expect that a 720 picture would be faster than a 1080 picture for many things that the system is doing.
You have about half as many pixels to draw per frame - the number of pixels on a 720 set = 1,049,088 and on a 1080 set = 2,073,600 so if the GPU is at or above performance limited on a task at 1080, it shouldn't be at 720.
roustabout said:
I would expect that a 720 picture would be faster than a 1080 picture for many things that the system is doing.
You have about half as many pixels to draw per frame - the number of pixels on a 720 set = 1,049,088 and on a 1080 set = 2,073,600 so if the GPU is at or above performance limited on a task at 1080, it shouldn't be at 720.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
running anutu at both those resolutions results in the same score give or take so im pretty sure the issue here is network speed/latency or XBMC codec issues. playing back full a bluray mux done at 48 fps of frozen drops frames in a few areas of the movie due to the complexity of the scene.. i just tested the same sections of the movie (when elsa builds the ice bridge - LOL) and regardless of resolution i see the same FPS drop, while i agree 720P rendering is obviously less CPU/GPU intense, i dont think thats the OP issue.
you could always just drop your ftv to 720P and see if you notice a performance difference also.
nhumber said:
running anutu at both those resolutions results in the same score give or take so im pretty sure the issue here is network speed/latency or XBMC codec issues. playing back full a bluray mux done at 48 fps of frozen drops frames in a few areas of the movie due to the complexity of the scene.. i just tested the same sections of the movie (when elsa builds the ice bridge - LOL) and regardless of resolution i see the same FPS drop, while i agree 720P rendering is obviously less CPU/GPU intense, i dont think thats the OP issue.
you could always just drop your ftv to 720P and see if you notice a performance difference also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with everyone , i dont think its the firetv, its either xbmc or your connection
Related
Okay, so I have been watching videos from the full YouTube site and they work perfectly on 720p. When I play the videos on 1080p, the videos lags, giving me something like 1 FPS. Is there a solution to this problem? Is it something with the phone or is it YouTube's problem? If anyone has any sort of insight on this problem, please post. If you are having the same problem, also post.
aranurea said:
Okay, so I have been watching videos from the full YouTube site and they work perfectly on 720p. When I play the videos on 1080p, the videos lags, giving me something like 1 FPS. Is there a solution to this problem? Is it something with the phone or is it YouTube's problem? If anyone has any sort of insight on this problem, please post. If you are having the same problem, also post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your internet speeds aren't high enough probably?
There is enough hate in the world. Why can't we all get along here ...?
I just checked it myself. I have the same problem. Maybe the device doesn't support 1080p playback. Which is odd, I thought it recorded in 1080p.
1920x1080 runs just fine on mine
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
YouTube 1080p runs in flash..what's you expect..also..why in the world would you watch a 1080p video on a 480p screen?
Try a different browser
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Before we had root in the first days of the sgs2, i was able to watch 1080 videos wonderufully on YT also, epicmealtime fyi. I tried it today and the stock browser lags. =/
Why? Why do you need to see 1080P videos on a screen that only does 480P? And of course it'll lag it's running on flash on a website not optimized for mobile. Geez this is a phone not a desktop gaming rig.
It's not your phone it's youtube it's self. Youtube has always lagged on 1080p videos. My desktop has problems with it and I have 8 gig ram. Intel i7 sandy bridge with AMD Radeon HD 6990. Ever since youtube upgraded their interface it has been plagued with problems. My connection is 20 down 5 up.
The phone can run hi 10bit 1080p blue ray h.264 mkv videos with the lowest and highest encode possible with out losing frames. Which looks better than anything you can possibly stream. There is nothing on youtube worth watching in 1080p most videos are upscaled anyway. Which really isn't 1080p anyway.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
I watch 1080p videos because they look much clearer and less grainy than both 720p and 420p. I have tried different browsers but the same problem arises.
Sent from my SGH-T989 running Paradox ROM.
I think you need a quad core processer in order to watch 1080p videos.., my tab 10.1 can`t play 1080p videos...... it has the screen for it which leads me to believe it`s the processer
Sent from a amazing Ipad 2
aranurea said:
I watch 1080p videos because they look much clearer and less grainy than both 720p and 420p. I have tried different browsers but the same problem arises.
Sent from my SGH-T989 running Paradox ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's your brain talking.
I bet if I had 3 identical gsIIs one displaying 480 video, 720, and 1080 you wouldn't be able to pick which one is which.
jessejames111981 said:
I bet if I had 3 identical gsIIs one displaying 480 video, 720, and 1080 you wouldn't be able to pick which one is which.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha agreed.
---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------
ArcticWolf91 said:
Why? Why do you need to see 1080P videos on a screen that only does 480P? And of course it'll lag it's running on flash on a website not optimized for mobile. Geez this is a phone not a desktop gaming rig.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think many of us are spec whores because we want a mobile desktop experience/replacement/all-in-one mega device and I don't think you picked up your GS2 without thinking the same.
I bet i could jesse james. How bout you run a vid on all three options and take a screenie and post. Im not looking to start something, i just want to prove a point
Sent from my SGH-T989 running Paradox ROM.
Never mind. My logic was wrong but I watch CoD vids mostly so I can only tell the difference in such videos. But i hope you get my point. I want to maximize my phone's use.
Sent from my SGH-T989 running Paradox ROM.
I am planning on getting a Sprint Galaxy Nexus (have too many unused upgrade lines lol). And I was wondering how it performs on 720p 10bit video. From what I read it is able to play on MX Player, BS Player, Dice Player but I am more worried about performance. Some devices I hear have issues playing 10bit high action scenes so I want to know how it does. And if anyone has any experience with this?
I don't know but the nexus decodes 1080p video at the hardware level due to its chipset, not software like many phones. So it handles video playback like a champ.
RogerPodacter said:
I don't know but the nexus decodes 1080p video at the hardware level due to its chipset, not software like many phones. So it handles video playback like a champ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think any phone can do hardware decoding of 10bit video. 8bit video even a 1ghz single core hummingbird can play back 1080p with hardware decoding. But I am more particularly interested in 10bit which is more then likely decoded via software.
gTen said:
I don't think any phone can do hardware decoding of 10bit video. 8bit video even a 1ghz single core hummingbird can play back 1080p with hardware decoding. But I am more particularly interested in 10bit which is more then likely decoded via software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you point someone to where they can download a 10bit video and test it for you? (Maybe just a short clip?)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
infazzdar said:
Can you point someone to where they can download a 10bit video and test it for you? (Maybe just a short clip?)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I found some samples online:
There are 2 10bit 720p samples here:
http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/test_files/
And there are some hi10 1080p samples here:
http://android.tnonline.net/Software/Video/Hi10P Software/
gTen said:
OK I found some samples online:
There are 2 10bit 720p samples here:
http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/test_files/
And there are some hi10 1080p samples here:
http://android.tnonline.net/Software/Video/Hi10P Software/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Downloading one now I'll let u know.
OK, those are mkvs and the stock video player can't play them.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
try vlc beta or mx player. H/W decoding might not work with these files but software playback could be fine in theory.
MX Player can decode 720p 10-bit (Hi10P) files using its software decoder but it's very slow. You'd better off reencoding them using Handbrake.
PS: Even without action scenes, 10-bit files lag on the GNex.
akira02rex said:
Downloading one now I'll let u know.
OK, those are mkvs and the stock video player can't play them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, stock won't play them. It would need MXplayer, BS Player, Dice Player or etc.
Hannes The Hun said:
try vlc beta or mx player. H/W decoding might not work with these files but software playback could be fine in theory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I am able to play back 10bit 720p on my Droid Charge so as far as playback it should be able to do it, the problem is performance. the droid charge isn't powerful enough unfortunately.
doomed151 said:
MX Player can decode 720p 10-bit (Hi10P) files using its software decoder but it's very slow. You'd better off reencoding them using Handbrake.
PS: Even without action scenes, 10-bit files lag on the GNex.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if I am going to transcode then it kind of eliminates some of the purpose. Have you tried in MX Player to set it to use both cores? fast mode? 16 bit color depth? overclocking the phone? None of the above would help?
10-bit H.264 is pointless. The screen (most likely 6-bits per channel with dithering) can't even display that many colors.
Snowknight26 said:
10-bit H.264 is pointless. The screen (most likely 6-bits per channel with dithering) can't even display that many colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are other benefits to 10-bit. The compression gives higher quality and smaller file sizes. Also the screens last I checked are not crappy TN panels. Super AMOLED is more then capable of displaying all colors. Even the IPS screens on phone these days are Super IPS (not to be confused with eIPS) and should be capable of displaying 10bit color.
That the format of the video is what it is and transcoding is not an option. Hence why I am interested in performance.
Don't expect anything but horrible performance. 10-bit H.264 streams can't be hardware decoded by anything on the market and probably never will.
Most S-IPS panels are also 6-bit per channel with dithering. Very few are actually 8-bit. Now, as far as monitors go, unless you're willing to spend 10 times the price for a non-consumer model, you will not find anything that supports 10-bits per channel natively. The story holds true for phones, too. I don't believe there are any 10-bit screens and I'm sure there won't be any for years to come (again, unless you're spending thousands for a phone).
Snowknight26 said:
Don't expect anything but horrible performance. 10-bit H.264 streams can't be hardware decoded by anything on the market and probably never will.
Most S-IPS panels are also 6-bit per channel with dithering. Very few are actually 8-bit. Now, as far as monitors go, unless you're willing to spend 10 times the price for a non-consumer model, you will not find anything that supports 10-bits per channel natively. The story holds true for phones, too. I don't believe there are any 10-bit screens and I'm sure there won't be any for years to come (again, unless you're spending thousands for a phone).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all Super AMOLED has full color support because its not an LCD. The only thing you need to do is calibrate the screen so its not saturated. If you take OLED decay asside OLED can give you perfect color reproduction batter then the best IPS screens. Of course overall 10bit ends up being converted to 8bit because the hardware needs to support it like ATI Firepro
Now for SIPS, name me one monitor that is 6bit. The low end monitors that are 6bit are eIPS which use FRC. S-IPS is at minimum 8bit.
But we are getting off topic here..all I want to do is playback 10bit content. I am well aware of the limitations and that the decoding will be software which goes back to my question. Is the nexus powerful enough for the job.
Just tried one of the sample vids with MX and VLC. VLC was stuck on the first frame and MX played it but what seemed like 1FPS. I overclocked my phone to 1812MHz and have FrancoKernel with 512MHz GPU. Set my governor to performance and still no go. Tweaked settings on MX and still no go.
Sorry OP but I'm pretty sure the GNex can't play it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
danielsaenz said:
Just tried one of the sample vids with MX and VLC. VLC was stuck on the first frame and MX played it but what seemed like 1FPS. I overclocked my phone to 1812MHz and have FrancoKernel with 512MHz GPU. Set my governor to performance and still no go. Tweaked settings on MX and still no go.
Sorry OP but I'm pretty sure the GNex can't play it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which samples did you try, the 720p or the 1080p?
danielsaenz said:
Just tried one of the sample vids with MX and VLC. VLC was stuck on the first frame and MX played it but what seemed like 1FPS. I overclocked my phone to 1812MHz and have FrancoKernel with 512MHz GPU. Set my governor to performance and still no go. Tweaked settings on MX and still no go.
Sorry OP but I'm pretty sure the GNex can't play it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With those Specs sounds like you're trying to cook your phone lol. Higher isn't always better. Example, I installed Batman to my Transformer which was overclocked to 1400mhz and it lagged like crazy. Once I put it down to 1100 it ran a lot better. Maybe you might have to find the sweet spot for your phone.
A couple of days ago, nVidia presented their new portable gaming device alongside one particular feature. The ability to stream PC games via cloud and from a nVidia powered PC with GFE (equipped with at least kepler Ge Force GTX 650) to any device able to have their Grid client.
This is nothing more than the evolution of what Splashtop brought (with nVidia sponsorship) on CES 2012 (confirmed by nVidia Italy itself on Facebook).
Now during the conference it was stated that the client would have reached every android device (not only Tegra ones nor Project shield) and in the next days some hands-on with different "non-shield" devices were recorded.
Finally also the one recorded on Nexus 7 landed (cortesy of Droid-Life)
here it is:
I honestly think that if there will be the option to customize controls other than the only gamepad, the Nexus 7 could be even a better device that the shield itself for this kind of gaming (even if it lacks the Tegra 4 SoC). Furthermore it will surely be a great boost for android gaming in general (thanks to the direct support of nVidia and their money / partners- compared to the influence of Splashtop Inc.). The staff of the Tegra page on FB confirmed me that Grid (that I intend in its incarnation of both LAN (via GFE) / internet streaming (via third party partners)) will have a different timetable than Project Shield, so I think we'll have the opportunity to enjoy this feature sooner than the release of Shield (maybe at the same time with the announcement of the Nexus 7 successor @ Google I/O or even sooner with an open bea :laugh
SimoxTav said:
A couple of days ago, nVidia presented their new portable gaming device alongside one particular feature. The ability to stream PC games via cloud and from a nVidia powered PC with GFE (equipped with at least kepler Ge Force GTX 650) to any device able to have their Grid client.
This is nothing more than the evolution of what Splashtop brought (with nVidia sponsorship) on CES 2012 (confirmed by nVidia Italy itself on Facebook).
Now during the conference it was stated that the client would have reached every android device (not only Tegra ones nor Project shield) and in the next days some hands-on with different "non-shield" devices were recorded.
Finally also the one recorded on Nexus 7 landed (cortesy of Droid-Life)
here it is:
I honestly think that if there will be the option to customize controls other than the only gamepad, the Nexus 7 could be even a better device that the shield itself for this kind of gaming (even if it lacks the Tegra 4 SoC). Furthermore it will surely be a great boost for android gaming in general (thanks to the direct support of nVidia and their money / partners- compared to the influence of Splashtop Inc.). The staff of the Tegra page on FB confirmed me that Grid (that I intend in its incarnation of both LAN (via GFE) / internet streaming (via third party partners)) will have a different timetable than Project Shield, so I think we'll have the opportunity to enjoy this feature sooner than the release of Shield (maybe at the same time with the announcement of the Nexus 7 successor @ Google I/O or even sooner with an open bea :laugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used splashtop thd and I was able to play any game even just cause 2 just from streaming from my gaming computer. It worked perfectly fine on my N7 I don't see any reason why I would buy a device like this when I already own a device that can do the same thing.
Sent from my LG-C729 using xda app-developers app
Splashtop?
What's that?
And is OnLive working with N7?
AFAinHD said:
I used splashtop thd and I was able to play any game even just cause 2 just from streaming from my gaming computer. It worked perfectly fine on my N7 I don't see any reason why I would buy a device like this when I already own a device that can do the same thing.
Sent from my LG-C729 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, with the move from nVidia to make the technology available to all android devices, the only benefit compared to Splashtop THD is that the application will be directly supported from nVidia (that is not a startup nor currently involved with iOS).
It wasn't a topic about nVidia Shield but about nVidia Grid (that are 2 different projects with their own roadmap, simple shown together during the conference)
However Splashtop is lacking in the support of their app (several critical bugs are more than 1y old) (p.e. I had to tweak an XML profile via text editor to fix the mouse flickering issue in their app) and they have also to develop the iOS "traditional" version that it's surely more profitable for them than the THD one (in fact talking to their support center their confirmed that are short on resources to fix those bugs in short times).
Furthermore nVidia Grid will be probably free on LAN side (so potentially better than Splashtop), but it will be also available via 3G and 4G/LTE (but the service will be provided by third party owned Grid Server Farm). A feature that Splashtop simply doesn't have
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Splashtop?
What's that?
And is OnLive working with N7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will semplify:
Splashtop = Remote desktop gaming via LAN streaming YOUR OWN hardware (Google Play)
Onlive (as you know) is the same thing of splashtop on the "internet" and is offered as a service with THEIR hardware (is currently in bankrupt due the expensive architecture, a technical problem solved by nVidia Grid with virtualization).
nVidia Grid will be BOTH (for the LAN side supported directly via nVidia through their Geforce Experience Program and for the "Internet" side provided by third party like Playcast)
For OnLive for N7 the device isn't officially supported, but IMHO it should work
The question is - will Grid work on N7/N10/current top tablets?
Or is it going to be Tegra 4-exclusive?
To me...YES!
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
The question is - will Grid work on N7/N10/current top tablets?
Or is it going to be Tegra 4-exclusive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grid (for its "internet/cloud" side) for sure, was declared during the conference ((link, look from 0:24:00) and was also shown there (even if in a limited environment having the rack next to the devices and not "on the internet"). To see other devices running it there is the video in the opening post and several other hands on showing it running on N7, HTC X and LG Smart TVs.
Grid (-or whatever it's called- for its "LAN" side, basically the evolution of Splashtop THD streamer) is currently promoted only on the Shield Project page but considering that is the same H.264 compressed stream that travel from a server to a client but in a local environment, if it can works on internet, why shouldn't work on local? If what Mr Huang said ("as long as you have a mobile processor able to manage h.264 you can run grid) is true, directly from nVidia or from someone that extract the APK, we'll easily have the client.
On the server side everything is needed is a GeForce GPU (at least GTX650) and the GeForce Experience Program, so no particular gimmicks.
Seeing Splashtop THD running smoothly on N7 is enough to state that the hardware is powerful enough to handle it (as long as we're speaking on internal screen (so 720p) and i'd say up to 1080p (even if Splashtop doesn't support on its THD version). Probably 4K screens and concurrent miracast streaming to both the devices will be an exclusive for the power of T4 (and with a very good wireless repeater i'd say), but without a video output option on the N7 is not our scenario at all
I don't see much point of using 4K HDTV's with a tablet to run a gaming streaming program. It's much easier to just play on a console or connect your gaming PC to a HDTV and use it as a monitor to utilize the power potential and play graphics-heavy things like Crysis in the resolution it was meant to be played
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
I don't see much point of using 4K HDTV's with a tablet to run a gaming streaming program. It's much easier to just play on a console or connect your gaming PC to a HDTV and use it as a monitor to utilize the power potential and play graphics-heavy things like Crysis in the resolution it was meant to be played
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. Furthermore, talking about raw numbers, accordingly to this a streaming of an H.264 720p video (in high quality)@ 30fps, takes about 6Mbit/s that is currently a bandwidth available even on a good G router (and on several mobile providers). Considering the target of 60 fps we will need a surely at least a N router to avoid hiccups during the stream. However, rising the resolution to 4k the bandwidth needed for 60fps is about 70mbit/s that is simply insane to reach completely wireless if not sitting next to the PC and the router (as always seen in all the presentations) or having a real powerful dual band router...So to me the streaming makes sense only on portable devices up to 1080p. Above there are surely other solutions
SimoxTav said:
I completely agree. Furthermore, talking about raw numbers, accordingly to this a streaming of an H.264 720p video (in high quality)@ 30fps, takes about 6Mbit/s that is currently a bandwidth available even on a good G router (and on several mobile providers). Considering the target of 60 fps we will need a surely at least a N router to avoid hiccups during the stream. However, rising the resolution to 4k the bandwidth needed for 60fps is about 70mbit/s that is simply insane to reach completely wireless if not sitting next to the PC and the router (as always seen in all the presentations) or having a real powerful dual band router...So to me the streaming makes sense only on portable devices up to 1080p. Above there are surely other solutions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, as I understand, to use Grid you must not only have a more or less fast Wi-Fi connection (or mobile network if it allows it), but also have a device powerful enough to decode the picture being streamed from the server/your PC, right?
I've seen a couple of vids with the above-mentioned Splashtop GamePad THD - and it runs with noticeably less framerate than it does on the PC that the app was demonstated with
It's kinda strange though, because unlike Grid and Splashtop - the OnLive required to have only a fast enough internet connection which bandwith would allow to process the stream from the server, and the technology didn't require you to have a powerful hardware, meaning that you could even run things like Battlefiled 3 with maximum quality on a 5 year old PC
So why did NVidia decie to go the other way around?
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
So, as I understand, to use Grid you must not only have a more or less fast Wi-Fi connection (or mobile network if it allows it), but also have a device powerful enough to decode the picture being streamed from the server/your PC, right?
I've seen a couple of vids with the above-mentioned Splashtop GamePad THD - and it runs with noticeably less framerate than it does on the PC that the app was demonstated with
It's kinda strange though, because unlike Grid and Splashtop - the OnLive required to have only a fast enough internet connection which bandwith would allow to process the stream from the server, and the technology didn't require you to have a powerful hardware, meaning that you could even run things like Battlefiled 3 with maximum quality on a 5 year old PC
So why did NVidia decie to go the other way around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More or less every device today is able to manage (encode/decode) a H.264 stream so basically the "requirements" for the client device are not so strict (I'd say similar to OnLive indeed. Consider that having a compressed stream means less bandwidth used, on the other hand a decent CPU is needed to handle the task). The main difference is about that the THD version is specifically optimized to use one core of Tegra 3 just for the decoding process. Talking about the framerate of splashtop, I'll measure it somehow (I need the GF reflex but i'll try with a phone ), however I never noticed so much difference between the 2 devices (assuming that I have an intel core-i5 + GTX 670 and a DGND3700).
To be completely honest, however, I didn't even noticed a difference between the THD version and the "Splashtop 2 version on the nexus 7 (Splashtop 2 is free so is worth a try and compatible with a wide range of devices).
May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?
SimoxTav said:
May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:
You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:
...cut...
You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'd say the difference is crystal clear. Probably for Grid/Project Shield they improved their codec to grant a smoother output (nVidia Italy said something related to it on Facebook (Link)
Quanto mostrato è una evoluzione di questa tecnologia, ancora a livello prototipale, quindi purtroppo non siamo in grado di risponderti con precisione, non essendo neppure noi a conoscenza dei dettagli
Translated:
As shown is an evolution of this technology (Note: Splashtop), still at prototype level, so unfortunately we are unable to answer precisely, since neither are we aware of the details
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I recorded on the fly a video for BF3, both server and client are connected via wifi (this isn't the optimal scenario but due the distance I can't move the desktop around the house). Talking about numbers there are no excuses and even on side by side comparison the difference is noticeable; however taken each one singly, the experience is IMHO enjoyable). Tomorrow I'll try with Splashtop 2 the same test (that one comes from a different developing branch, more recent than THD so maybe there will be improvements)
Video
FYI:
I used the render.drawfps call on BF3 (embedded in the engine) and FPS Meter on Android so was easy to see their framerates side by side. On PC the game is configured on Ultra with Vsync so no more than 60fps.
Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?
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For this i quote what Eurogamer stated during the faceoff between OnLive and Gaikai (that should be based on Grid servers) (Source)
Improved visual quality server-side also has ramifications for video compression. Hard edges with no anti-aliasing will be harder to encode than a richer, smoother picture derived from the game running on higher graphics settings - after all, these video compressors were designed with real life footage in mind, not raw game visuals.
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So better compression means lower bandwidth, however the framerate of both the stream and the server play a big role.
Basically, fewer unique frames (60FPS) means less work for the compressor to deal with when encoding the video stream. From another perspective, dropping down to 30FPS also provides double the amount of bandwidth for image quality and thus delivers overall clarity closer to the experience of gaming on local hardware.
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IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.
I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?
Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.
I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?
Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice
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Yeah, but more than graphics visuals details, their fast pace gameplay is the worst for this kind of technology.
However it seems that with grid the performance are clearly better
Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
ÜBER™ said:
Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
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I don't think that NVidia can afford to run a service like this (imagine how much resources they need to provide this streaming, especially in a perfect state)
Look at what happened to OnLive
So probably it's gonna be, like, 10-15$ a month or so, not too much (like if you'd rent a game from a shop like GameStop or such) and multiplied by the number of NVidia-powered devices (including phones, tablets and computers/notebooks/etc) - it's gonna bring some $$$ for the company
ÜBER™ said:
Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
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Their GRID architecture for cloud will be sold to third parties (Playcast, Ubitus, etc) and nVidia will not provide its own service directly. However talking on the LAN side of the application, it should be promoted and supported directly by nVidia (even if for now is shown as a "Shield only" feature) but I expect to see it at least on "all" Tegra devices (due the fact that if the service can work on the cloud, make it working on LAN is surely easier.
I saw in one of the reviews by Lon Seidman in YouTube that he mentions that he noticed the images/graphics (maybe for movies or games) that there is a slight drop in sharpness!! Is this true? did anyone notice?
I am thinking - if I run a high resolution movie like a 4K or even HD on a normal 5.1.1 android player and remix OS which also runs the same, should look the same. Not sure, how the remix might have gone to change the quality of render?
graphics
sany said:
I saw in one of the reviews by Lon Seidman in YouTube that he mentions that he noticed the images/graphics (maybe for movies or games) that there is a slight drop in sharpness!! Is this true? did anyone notice?
I am thinking - if I run a high resolution movie like a 4K or even HD on a normal 5.1.1 android player and remix OS which also runs the same, should look the same. Not sure, how the remix might have gone to change the quality of render?
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I am using remix os on a netbook acer aspire one 753 and it doesnt render 720p videos on youtube well. it only needs a graphics driver though. any one has an idea? although I dont think there is enough support for that yet.
sany said:
I saw in one of the reviews by Lon Seidman in YouTube that he mentions that he noticed the images/graphics (maybe for movies or games) that there is a slight drop in sharpness!! Is this true? did anyone notice?
I am thinking - if I run a high resolution movie like a 4K or even HD on a normal 5.1.1 android player and remix OS which also runs the same, should look the same. Not sure, how the remix might have gone to change the quality of render?
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I have the vensmile U1, Yesterday I began watching GOT with h.265 (god bless torrents) on 4k tv, using render by hardware and it works just perfect (MX player). I think it depends on the processor and ram available, and graphics card of cuz.
Can anyone with a Samsung Tab S4 tablet confirm if Netflix and Amazon Video stream and download in HD?
The best way to check
1) Netflix - play the video called Test Patterns. After a few seconds, what is the resolution displayed in yellow text at the top?
2) Amazon Video - goto Settings, Stream & Download, Download Quality - then look at best, how much data does it use for 1 hour of video?
0.46GB of data and storage implies Standard Definition,
something like 1.82GB implies it streams in High Definition.
any help with this will be most appreciated.
I want to get an Android tablet that does both in HD, i can't believe the ipad and fire tablets are the only tablets that do both.
I'm hoping the Samsung tab S4 is the only android tablet that does. if so, i will buy one, but i'm not risking purchasing one only to find it doesn't do both in HD.
Thanks,
I tried both on my Tab S4 and my Note 9. The Tab S4 shows 1820x720 on Netflix and 0.46 on Prime. On the Note 9 I get no resolution shown in Netflix and 0.46 in Prime Video. Netflix lists the Tab S4 as being able to stream in HD and with HDR.
nrage23 said:
I tried both on my Tab S4 and my Note 9. The Tab S4 shows 1820x720 on Netflix and 0.46 on Prime. On the Note 9 I get no resolution shown in Netflix and 0.46 in Prime Video.
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thanks for this.
so it streams at 720p on netflix, not 1080p, but decent enough.
really disappointed to hear it doesn't support HD amazon video though.
as an FYI, the reason why you get no resolution shown in Netflix on your Note 9, the video is probably cropped due to the screen ratio of the Note 9.
if you zoom out, it will show you the resolution, almost certainly also at 1820x720
thanks for your response though.
i might just concede defeat and get a Amazon Fire HD 10 tablet.
I haven't noticed Netflix not being HD to be honest.
---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------
The main question is it hardware or have Netflix just not added support for our device yet
---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------
According to android police Netflix added HD/HDR support for the tab S4 and note 9 beginning of August
Reuben_skelz92 said:
I haven't noticed Netflix not being HD to be honest.
---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------
The main question is it hardware or have Netflix just not added support for our device yet
---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------
According to android police Netflix added HD/HDR support for the tab S4 and note 9 beginning of August
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Netflix is hd on this tablet (capped at 720p).
Its amazon video that is still sd by the sounds of it.
samxool said:
Netflix is hd on this tablet (capped at 720p).
Its amazon video that is still sd by the sounds of it.
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If you go into Netflix settings and select high quality for downloaded an episode is 1.1gb
I get 1.82GB per hour of video downloaded on best with Prime on my Tab S4, but only after I've started streaming something.
Before that, it is 0.46GB per hour.
I think that when you first start the app, it hasn't determined its capabilities.
For example, I was streaming Preacher this evening and when I paused it showed it was playing in 1080p. Heading into the quality settings at this point showed 1.86GB of data per hour on both streaming and downloads. If I kill and restart Prime, it's back to 0.46GB.
Regards,
Dave
Thanks dave, that's really interesting to hear. I might have to purchase this tablet after all!!
Can anyone replicate downloads of 1.82gb per hour like dave stated above?
Thanks
My S9+ does exactly the same too.
0.46GB per hour until I start a stream and then I get much higher quality options.
Regards,
Dave
samxool said:
Thanks dave, that's really interesting to hear. I might have to purchase this tablet after all!!
Can anyone replicate downloads of 1.82gb per hour like dave stated above?
Thanks
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Confirmed. With Netflix though I'm not impressed at all. Properly HDR certified devices do display 1080p HDR, Tab S4 doesn't do 1080p nor HDR even though it shows HDR badge.
I've restored my Tab S 8.4 to original firmware and that thing is playing 1080p on Netflix yet Tab S4 only 720p. That is ridiculous.
Too51oll said:
I've restored my Tab S 8.4 to original firmware and that thing is playing 1080p on Netflix yet Tab S4 only 720p. That is ridiculous.
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I agree. My 10 inch samsung tablet s1 does 1080p netflix ,so does my Lenovo yoga tab plus. Both confirmed with test patterns. why should a new tablet costing three times as much be capped at 720p?
The hacked for 1080p netflix apps probably offer a workaround but that just reinforces the stupidity.
Could it be that it is a trade off for having hdr, though surely a good smart TV delivers netflix with hdr and full hd or even 4k.
I will stick with what I already have, and with watching Amazon video in browser apps on desktop setting for 1080p
For those who say they can't see the hd difference, grab a 1080p hd download of something that is alsoon netflix then compare that local file in Plex or mx player on your device with what you see in the netflix app. The improvement is very noticeable to me, especially on faces closeups
smarttiel said:
I agree. My 10 inch samsung tablet s1 does 1080p netflix ,so does my Lenovo yoga tab plus. Both confirmed with test patterns. why should a new tablet costing three times as much be capped at 720p?
The hacked for 1080p netflix apps probably offer a workaround but that just reinforces the stupidity.
Could it be that it is a trade off for having hdr, though surely a good smart TV delivers netflix with hdr and full hd or even 4k.
I will stick with what I already have, and with watching Amazon video in browser apps on desktop setting for 1080p
For those who say they can't see the hd difference, grab a 1080p hd download of something that is alsoon netflix then compare that local file in Plex or mx player on your device with what you see in the netflix app. The improvement is very noticeable to me, especially on faces closeups
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if this is true I hope they update the app soon.
is there a way to check if the HDR is actually working?
on Amazon prime is very clear, but not that clear on Netflix
smarttiel said:
I agree. My 10 inch samsung tablet s1 does 1080p netflix ,so does my Lenovo yoga tab plus
Fyi to all. The bit rate for netflix full hd 1080p, as shown on screen using the test pattern videos, is I think 5.1 GBits, so 1.89 for same quality from Amazon seems low. But when watching Amazon video in tablet browser, there is a 1080p icon that appears at bottom left next to hd once the stream has gotten up to speed
I am almost sure that netflix download for later best rate is 720p, even on a device that will stream netflix at 1080p. The file sizes are below 1gb per hour on best rate, so unless that have really smart compression you get better quality by streaming. That may be checkable by using the windows 10 app from the windows store. As that also does download for later, but the app may not respond to the hot key tricks that force a speed,quality overlay in the browser
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I did a comparison yesterday with maniac. I downloaded the first 2 chapters in 1080p from the scene and compared them with the stream (HDR and 720p?).
I checked many parts of these two chapters, including some walls with small text advertisements etc.
Not only i could not see the 1080p better...in all cases the stream looked better and a bit sharper...
So or the stream is actually 1080p no matter what the pattern test says, or the stream is really good....
Looking at shows like godless (A personal favorite) ... the quality is so high, it looks so good sharp and bright, that honestly...I very much doubt that could look better.
Anyway, my observations only
hardpike said:
I did a comparison yesterday with maniac. I downloaded the first 2 chapters in 1080p from the scene and compared them with the stream (HDR and 720p?).
I checked many parts of these two chapters, including some walls with small text advertisements etc.
Not only i could not see the 1080p better...in all cases the stream looked better and a bit sharper...
So or the stream is actually 1080p no matter what the pattern test says, or the stream is really good....
Looking at shows like godless (A personal favorite) ... the quality is so high, it looks so good sharp and bright, that honestly...I very much doubt that could look better.
Anyway, my observations only
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netflix are very very good at optimising quality within any given bit rate and resolution. But I have compared 2 netflix streams on 10 inch tablets, of the same source. One at 720p on a fire hd10, one we 108op on a Samsung Tab s1. In that test the 1080p was superior.
Netflix Vs a scene release has more variables. What file size were your test files and if you download same from netflix what size is that
I guessed my real gripe is why do content providers and tablet manufacturers seemingly conspire to deny us the best possible bit rates. I know from using the hacked for l1 widevine netflix app that all my tablets can deliver a 1080p netflix stream by just havinf an app change a flag to make tablets appear as whitelisted for full hd. And I know from in browser tests that I can stream Amazon at 1080p but the Amazon app says non Amazon android gets sd only. Unless it is a Samsung S3. And not an s1, s2 or s4.
Thus my personal holy grail of an android tablet that runs both at 1080p out of the box via official apps remains unfulfilled. I am told that iPads can do it, so want no android solutions ?
I get full 1080p and HDR in Amazon with my tab S4...
hardpike said:
I get full 1080p and HDR in Amazon with my tab S4...
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That is Good to know, but you only get 720 from the official netflix app ?
I have my doubts but it seems so. Even if in my tests so far iI couln't see a better feed. I have checked against my tv (1080p) y galaxy s6 edge plus (test pattern says 1080p) the download from netflix (720p judging by the size of the file)
The downloaded from netflix 720p files (about 700mb for 45 min) looks much worse then the stream.
I cant see so far anything better than the tab s4 feed.
But i keep checking...
hardpike said:
I have my doubts but it seems so. Even if in my tests so far iI couln't see a better feed. I have checked against my tv (1080p) y galaxy s6 edge plus (test pattern says 1080p) the download from netflix (720p judging by the size of the file)
The downloaded from netflix 720p files (about 700mb for 45 min) looks much worse then the stream.
I cant see so far anything better than the tab s4 feed.
But i keep checking...
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It would be interesting to know what performance you get from a tweaked netflix app on the s4. I am not sure what links etc we can post here but I found one via Google quite easily
a search for netflix 1080p apk should do the trick.
The theory is just for the app to report that the device is a whitelisted one for 1080...