Related
I had a few questions that I can't pull up much information on. There looks to be a ton of updates we now have the option of putting on our EVO, what are the differences.
Kernel
--- Alright, I know this one but for anyone who doesn't. This is the heart of the phone. It is what allows software to talk to hardware.
--- Why do some of the kernel changes break the camera/accelerometer? Are these drivers built into the kernel instead of modules? Can they not be rebuilt with different kernels?
NAND
--- What is the NAND and why are we unlocking it?
--- NAND is a type of flash, no? Are all they system files (i.e. the /system folder) on their own chip inside the evo? How can rooting and remounting the system r/w not control the /system folder?
--- While I'm at it, does rooting just me remounting everything but the /system folder as r/w. So a non rooted phone is read only except for the SD card and where ever apps from the market are installed?
Recovery
--- It seems like there are a couple recovery systems out there... clockwork and another. Did the EVO not come with its own recovery system. What have these modded versions added?
ROMS
--- What are these really doing if they are not messing with the /system folder. Are they just a bundle of different programs? Change the rom and you change the programs that are installed? What is the difference between a ROM and a DEV-ROM
RADIO
--- What is the deal with the new radio. Is it updated drivers for the baseband? This kind of gets into my kernel question about how the drivers are handled within the kernel. How can this work across multiple kernels, but we cant get the camera working?
I know this is a lot, but if anyone could fill in some of the holes for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
bump...
Any thoughts? You don't have to answer them all.
I am NO expert, but can help a bit....
Kernel
--- Alright, I know this one but for anyone who doesn't. This is the heart of the phone. It is what allows software to talk to hardware.
--- Why do some of the kernel changes break the camera/accelerometer? Are these drivers built into the kernel instead of modules? Can they not be rebuilt with different kernels?
From my understanding, the kernles that break the camera, are kernels that are ports of kernels from other phones. So, the drivers for the camera are not the same as for the other phones camera.
Recovery
--- It seems like there are a couple recovery systems out there... clockwork and another. Did the EVO not come with its own recovery system. What have these modded versions added?
My understanding is that the phone's original recovery, is locked to only flash Sprint's Official ROM's. So the custom recovery will allow to flash custom ROM's
ROMS
--- What are these really doing if they are not messing with the /system folder. Are they just a bundle of different programs? Change the rom and you change the programs that are installed? What is the difference between a ROM and a DEV-ROM
Aside from changing apps, ROM's can do different things like optimizing the apps so that they run smoother, move data from one place to another to run more efficiently and allow for a number of customizations that would not be available with only the stock ROM rooted. A ROM is understanded as a usable, stable ROM. A DEV-ROM is one that is not stable, were it has things that still dont work and need to keep improving.
Hope it helps!
Perfect thanks.
The ROM/DEV-ROM thing was really bugging me, and the recovery explanation makes sense.
amw2320 said:
I had a few questions that I can't pull up much information on. There looks to be a ton of updates we now have the option of putting on our EVO, what are the differences.
Kernel
--- Alright, I know this one but for anyone who doesn't. This is the heart of the phone. It is what allows software to talk to hardware.
--- Why do some of the kernel changes break the camera/accelerometer? Are these drivers built into the kernel instead of modules? Can they not be rebuilt with different kernels?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So with *.NIX kernels such as linux, unix, and the android kernel there are modules that make up the kernel itself. Any *.NIX kernel is going to be modular and this makes it more efficient and robust. In the case of specific items not working between different kernels, it most likely means the kernel was compiled with specific modules that have specific scripts and drivers in it. This method speeds up the kernel because it takes out stuff not needed. But means it limits the devices the kernel can run on.
In the case of Android ROMs not being able to fully interface with hardware, it likely means the kernel is missing something as another commentator already suggested.
NAND
--- What is the NAND and why are we unlocking it?
--- NAND is a type of flash, no? Are all they system files (i.e. the /system folder) on their own chip inside the evo? How can rooting and remounting the system r/w not control the /system folder?
--- While I'm at it, does rooting just me remounting everything but the /system folder as r/w. So a non rooted phone is read only except for the SD card and where ever apps from the market are installed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are unlocking NAND and rooting phones to get access to file systems that are locked down by phone manufactures/cell providers. Doing so unleashes the full potential of the device.
If you rooted your phone and you do not have full access to the file system, you only did part 1 of the root process. There are 2 parts because one unlocks NAND and the other unlocks the file system completely with the phone booted. Step 1 just unlocks filesystem for NAND which means you have to be booted into NAND for full access to file system. I think I have that right.
Recovery
--- It seems like there are a couple recovery systems out there... clockwork and another. Did the EVO not come with its own recovery system. What have these modded versions added?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clockwork and the others are just replacing NAND with their own system, if I am correct. I recommend doing this if you are rooted because you get better features and a constantly updated system, where as NAND is only updated when Sprint and HTC have an update with a NAND update in it (which isn't often). The way I recommend updating this is using ROM Manager once you are rooted. It is very safe and easy.
ROMS
--- What are these really doing if they are not messing with the /system folder. Are they just a bundle of different programs? Change the rom and you change the programs that are installed? What is the difference between a ROM and a DEV-ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you see ROM, think GUI for the OS, collection of apps and scripts. The ROM what you are going to interact with and use. I highly recommend flashing a custom ROM once rooted because you will have less problems and they are way more efficient than stock. Developers take time and care to test and tweak their ROMs so that they not only perform good, but give us the features we want. Find one you like and install. Make sure you do a NAND backup though once you get everything installed the way you like. Also do a titanium backup (app from marketplace) too.
RADIO
--- What is the deal with the new radio. Is it updated drivers for the baseband? This kind of gets into my kernel question about how the drivers are handled within the kernel. How can this work across multiple kernels, but we cant get the camera working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is recommended not to mess with the radio unless a ROM you want requires it. I flashed it without any trouble at all and things seem fine on my phone. Some people recommend flashing it because they think it makes the cell radios in the phone perform more efficiently and such. This is all I can say on the radio as I'm no expert.
I see most of the questions have been answered above...I'll attempt as well and perhaps it will help clarify (or just give a different way of looking at it).
amw2320 said:
I had a few questions that I can't pull up much information on. There looks to be a ton of updates we now have the option of putting on our EVO, what are the differences.
Kernel
--- Alright, I know this one but for anyone who doesn't. This is the heart of the phone. It is what allows software to talk to hardware.
--- Why do some of the kernel changes break the camera/accelerometer? Are these drivers built into the kernel instead of modules? Can they not be rebuilt with different kernels?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the kernel is the heart of any OS (Windows has one, Linux has one, etc). The kernel is where everything eventually goes to do anything.
The reason the new kernels do not have camera functionality is because, while we have generic source code, we do not have the drivers/modules for that source code. HTC does some modifications within the source that are proprietary and so we have to attempt to try and reverse engineer it. About the time we do, they release the source code (I have suspicions of conspiracy, but that may just be me) and that's when the kernel's really roll out with some fun stuff.
New kernels will be the source of the most new features...overclocking, efficiency improvements, etc.
NAND
--- What is the NAND and why are we unlocking it?
--- NAND is a type of flash, no? Are all they system files (i.e. the /system folder) on their own chip inside the evo? How can rooting and remounting the system r/w not control the /system folder?
--- While I'm at it, does rooting just me remounting everything but the /system folder as r/w. So a non rooted phone is read only except for the SD card and where ever apps from the market are installed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the areas I'm most weak in for understanding but I'll still take a stab.
NAND is a type of flash and, to my knowledge, it's own seperate chip. It is usually locked to prevent modifications that could break your phone or prevent it from updating properly...I *think* it's used during boot so the lock would translate straight through to your OS and prevent changes if put in a locked state (think similar to how some SD cards have a "lock" switch on the side to make it read only, except a software version of it).
Recovery
--- It seems like there are a couple recovery systems out there... clockwork and another. Did the EVO not come with its own recovery system. What have these modded versions added?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clockwork and AmonRA's recoveries are replacements that add functionality over the stock recovery. The stock recovery is only meant to be used by the manufacturer to perform certain tasks (like updating, resetting, etc...but no user functions like backup/restores.). Both Clockwork and AmonRA's recoveries add the ability to take a complete image of your phone (so that you can always restore any software changes no matter how severe), reformat and partition your sd card (to add/remote a cache partition or a partition for Apps2SD), reset battery stats, and a host of other things I'm sure I haven't even touched on. Also, I believe they add the functionality to flash unsigned updates done by the community (not just restricting us to HTC's updates).
ROMS
--- What are these really doing if they are not messing with the /system folder. Are they just a bundle of different programs? Change the rom and you change the programs that are installed? What is the difference between a ROM and a DEV-ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the ROMs you see now require NAND unlocks so that they can mess with the apps in /system. Some ROMs are just a certain package of apps or a set of themes. Others add functionality or make certain things easier to implement. Yet others are tweaked to attempt to change other aspects of the OS to improve performance of battery life through tweaks to when the system performs certain tasks.
Ultimately, each ROM is different and the changelogs *should* tell you what all they've done over the stock (or if they're based on another ROM, you can open that page to see the tweaks they are tweaking, etc). (Sometimes it can get pretty big on the tweaks on another rom's tweaks on another rom's tweaks...check the CDMA hero forums for some combination roms ).
ROMs vs Dev-ROMs - Dev-ROM's are usually a work in progress...they are testing new features and often will be on the bleeding edge (emphasis on bleeding). These will sometimes (even likely) break something while they try and improve or add new functionality in another aspect. You should only flash these if you want to help test and if you have an idea of what's going on so you can help troubleshoot.
Normal ROMs are usually more stable (usually) and will have milder modifications (though once a DEV-ROM has successfully gotten a new feature stable, most other ROMs will incorporate those changes...it's kindof a lifecycle).
RADIO
--- What is the deal with the new radio. Is it updated drivers for the baseband? This kind of gets into my kernel question about how the drivers are handled within the kernel. How can this work across multiple kernels, but we cant get the camera working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Radio images are a bit more like firmware updates to the radio chip. These often help to improve reception or connectivity or fix instabilities or other problems. Not everyone experiences the issues that it attempts to fix and doing a flash on your own does have certain risks. The odds of a problem arising for you isn't high, but the effect is potentially severe if a problem does occur. The main thing to remember is to ensure you have enough battery for the changes to occur (firmware updates in general recommend this on all devices, be it laptop BIOS updates or phone radio updates...I recommend using the wall charger and not unplugging it until 5 minutes after the update has completed), and ensure that you don't try and do anything else on the phone while the update is occuring.
I know this is a lot, but if anyone could fill in some of the holes for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully the info given by me and my fellow ex-newbies will help with your desire to learn! There's a lot of cool stuff about our phones and I love that we can get a bit into the guts of the thing (unlike some phones*)
*I can't help but throw a little jab at Apple every so often.
This is great information and helps me to push myself even further towards ROM development.
I enjoy my Evo and this website is amazing
Great thread and information, I was looking for something similar. I'm totally new to Android and want to start the whole rooting process.
I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but some terms are thrown around and I don't have a 100% understanding of what they really mean....could someone please define them?
Recovery?
Flashing?
Thanks codemonk and webs, that was awesome.
Onepanda, i'll give your question a shot.
Flashing is really just putting files on you phone. Generally it refers to replacing the andriod system files. You can flash a kernel, a ROM, drivers, or just an update to one of those.
Recovery is a mode you can put your phone into from boot. This is where you flash the files from. You cant just replace system files while they are running, so you boot into recovery mode and flash them from there.
Recovery mode also has a few other features allowing you to reset settings (cache) and make backups.
I just got an epic. I am used to HTC phones so had a few questions.
1. Can you change the shortcuts on the drop down menu (wifi, 4g etc) to something else?
2. I saw CNN and a few other apps on my screen when I got the phone. I removed them off the screen but don't see them in my app drawer.
3. Gonna root it today, can I put 2.2 if I am rooted.
I really like this phone. Like the screens and menus much better than HTC.
Heelfan71 said:
I just got an epic. I am used to HTC phones so had a few questions.
1. Can you change the shortcuts on the drop down menu (wifi, 4g etc) to something else?
2. I saw CNN and a few other apps on my screen when I got the phone. I removed them off the screen but don't see them in my app drawer.
3. Gonna root it today, can I put 2.2 if I am rooted.
I really like this phone. Like the screens and menus much better than HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I haven't seen anyone change it so im not sure about that.
2. Cnn and espn were just bookmarks that the phone placed on your homescreen; they weren't actual apps.
3. You don't need to be rooted to apply 2.2. In fact, if you look around the forum, im sure you will find out that you can download the zipped leak, change the name to update.zip, and just apply the update in normal recovery mode. Id give you a link, but I should warn you, it will be a pain to revert to the official froyo update since you'll have to use odin to go back to stock 2.1, then apply the update.
Hope this answered some of your questions!
Sent from my Epic 4G
Heelfan71 said:
I just got an epic. I am used to HTC phones so had a few questions.
1. Can you change the shortcuts on the drop down menu (wifi, 4g etc) to something else?
2. I saw CNN and a few other apps on my screen when I got the phone. I removed them off the screen but don't see them in my app drawer.
3. Gonna root it today, can I put 2.2 if I am rooted.
I really like this phone. Like the screens and menus much better than HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. No
2. Not sure about CNN (could have just been a shortcut for the internet browser), but any app that was pre-installed *should* be shown in the app drawer. Do you see stuff like the NFL app and Buddies Now?
3. The cleanest way to go to 2.2 is to install it through a program called Odin. I'd recommend reading some of the getting started threads and the wiki.
acer1096xxx said:
1. I haven't seen anyone change it so im not sure about that.
2. Cnn and espn were just bookmarks that the phone placed on your homescreen; they weren't actual apps.
3. You don't need to be rooted to apply 2.2. In fact, if you look around the forum, im sure you will find out that you can download the zipped leak, change the name to update.zip, and just apply the update in normal recovery mode. Id give you a link, but I should warn you, it will be a pain to revert to the official froyo update since you'll have to use odin to go back to stock 2.1, then apply the update.
Hope this answered some of your questions!
Sent from my Epic 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. I was going nuts wondering where CNN went. I'll read into the 2.2 update. I am going to root anyways.
okay I am rooted. What is DK28 and RFS ? And how do I know what I have?
Heelfan71 said:
okay I am rooted. What is DK28 and RFS ? And how do I know what I have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DK28 is the most recent leaked version of froyo where all the roms aare based on. I don't know what rfs is completely but I do know you are on rfs. The only other thing you can be on is EXT4, which is whats on the nexus s, and makes the phone a lot faster. Im on rfs because I've seen things saying that ext4 is not necessarily stable. Im not sure on that, however, I try not to get involved with those things. But to clarify, you are on rfs.
Sent from my Epic 4G
acer1096xxx said:
DK28 is the most recent leaked version of froyo where all the roms aare based on. I don't know what rfs is completely but I do know you are on rfs. The only other thing you can be on is EXT4, which is whats on the nexus s, and makes the phone a lot faster. Im on rfs because I've seen things saying that ext4 is not necessarily stable. Im not sure on that, however, I try not to get involved with those things. But to clarify, you are on rfs.
Sent from my Epic 4G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
Rfs is an antiquated file system that 2.1 and older android phones ran/run. It basically files your information inefficiently so it takes longer to find information compared to ext4. Ext4 is the file system that the Nexus S runs (as mentioned earlier) and newer Linux systems. The danger, which is minimal with ext4 is the possibiliy of data loss in the event of a catastrophy. Like your battery pops out while transferring a file
You could also odin the "dk28 extended" rom which gives you unofficial froyo, root, & clockwork through a single flash but you'll lose any saved data because odin does a complete wipe excluding only the SD card.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
running_the_dream said:
Rfs is an antiquated file system that 2.1 and older android phones ran/run. It basically files your information inefficiently so it takes longer to find information compared to ext4. Ext4 is the file system that the Nexus S runs (as mentioned earlier) and newer Linux systems. The danger, which is minimal with ext4 is the possibiliy of data loss in the event of a catastrophy. Like your battery pops out while transferring a file
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the part about data loss is untrue, since EXT4 uses journaling by default.
There have been claims that using EXT4 might lower the effective lifespan of the Epic's internal NAND memory, but a fair bit of evidence has been produced to indicate that this is not the case.
rocket321 said:
You could also odin the "dk28 extended" rom which gives you unofficial froyo, root, & clockwork through a single flash but you'll lose any saved data because odin does a complete wipe excluding only the SD card.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I did. I have dk28 and CWM +3
Thanks for the correction. I should have noted the data loss issue is more related to having journaling disabled. Hope I didn't confuse the op with that.
Electrofreak said:
Actually, the part about data loss is untrue, since EXT4 uses journaling by default.
There have been claims that using EXT4 might lower the effective lifespan of the Epic's internal NAND memory, but a fair bit of evidence has been produced to indicate that this is not the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Moto X (and more importantly, the Moto G) are using F2FS on their /data partitions and are seeing great I/O performance--even the Moto G, which is using essentially MicroSD eMMC is performing very well, and it's attributed to F2FS.
Is it possible to merge the patches required for F2FS support into the currently GNex kernel and produce a Recovery image built using that kernel that could clean /data and create a F2FS partition on it? Further, could that same kernel then be used in conjunction with an Android image to provide support for F2FS in Android, as the Moto X and G do?
The benchmarks for F2FS performance on NAND is incredible, and the GNex's is seeing new life with KitKat's memory and process optimizations. I'd like to start a discussion on bringing F2FS support to the GNex, in the interest of furthering it's potential.
Shidell said:
The Moto X (and more importantly, the Moto G) are using F2FS on their /data partitions and are seeing great I/O performance--even the Moto G, which is using essentially MicroSD eMMC is performing very well, and it's attributed to F2FS.
Is it possible to merge the patches required for F2FS support into the currently GNex kernel and produce a Recovery image built using that kernel that could clean /data and create a F2FS partition on it? Further, could that same kernel then be used in conjunction with an Android image to provide support for F2FS in Android, as the Moto X and G do?
The benchmarks for F2FS performance on NAND is incredible, and the GNex's is seeing new life with KitKat's memory and process optimizations. I'd like to start a discussion on bringing F2FS support to the GNex, in the interest of furthering it's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure but I'm very interested in this , if you can find these commits , I'll add this to my to do list . :thumbup:
Edit I found some , thanks for this topic I'll start seeing if it's possible
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bsmitty83 said:
I'm not sure but I'm very interested in this , if you can find these commits , I'll add this to my to do list . :thumbup:
Edit I found some , thanks for this topic I'll start seeing if it's possible
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome--thanks for investigating. I know you have the know-how to implement F2FS if it's feasible. It does appear to F2FS does offer about a 30% I/O perf improvement across the board, but in some cases, it can be as much as 300%, which is insane.
Here's a post I made on reddit with links to performance benchmarks of F2FS vs EXT3, EXT4, BTRFS, etc.
http://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNexus/comments/1t7a17/can_we_discuss_f2fs_on_the_galaxy_nexus_seems/
Did you have any luck looking for F2FS patches? Anything I can help with?
Shidell said:
Awesome--thanks for investigating. I know you have the know-how to implement F2FS if it's feasible. It does appear to F2FS does offer about a 30% I/O perf improvement across the board, but in some cases, it can be as much as 300%, which is insane.
Here's a post I made on reddit with links to performance benchmarks of F2FS vs EXT3, EXT4, BTRFS, etc.
http://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNexus/comments/1t7a17/can_we_discuss_f2fs_on_the_galaxy_nexus_seems/
Did you have any luck looking for F2FS patches? Anything I can help with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I did , I applied the patches necessary , the kernel supports f2fs , and now I'm in the process of getting the data partition formatted and mounted , which is ROM side in the fstabs , so hopefully I can build a ROM soon that's mounted f2fs , I've been all over this , it's definitely gonna work , just a matter of time before I get everything together
It was a patchset of 250 patches to the kernel .
Trying for some seat time tonight , :fingers-crossed:
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Awesome! Your comments sound promising. Keep us posted!
Everything has its upside and downside. I'm not being a smarta$$ or something but just warning you guys...
I think f2fs has a more than 50 or so times slower average mounting time than that of ext4, so most of the flashaholics out there will simply come back to ext4. It requires partition formats and an f2fs kernel. If one flashes an f2fs kernel to a phone with ext4 partitions, the phone will simply hardbrick, and vice versa. Of course it is possible to be unbricked, but it will be difficult for anyone who hasn't dealt with partitions, especially NAND, before.
I'm just afraid this will brick thousands of gnex's. It will cause a serious confusion and eventually succeed or will just be ignored by everyone.
Edit:
I have seen two people successfully ported f2fs, one to Galaxy Nexus and the other to Nexus 5, but both of them said their phone literally mounted forever. Of course the benchmark provided by one of them with gnex showed a really good improvement, but even he forgot that he shouldn't flash an ext4 kernel, which he did and got bricked.
Zittoro said:
Everything has its upside and downside. I'm not being a smarta$$ or something but just warning you guys...
I think f2fs has a more than 50 or so times slower average mounting time than that of ext4, so most of the flashaholics out there will simply come back to ext4. It requires partition formats and an f2fs kernel. If one flashes an f2fs kernel to a phone with ext4 partitions, the phone will simply hardbrick, and vice versa. Of course it is possible to be unbricked, but it will be difficult for anyone who hasn't dealt with partitions, especially NAND, before.
I'm just afraid this will brick thousands of gnex's. It will cause a serious confusion and eventually succeed or will just be ignored by everyone.
Edit:
I have seen two people successfully ported f2fs, one to Galaxy Nexus and the other to Nexus 5, but both of them said their phone literally mounted forever. Of course the benchmark provided by one of them with gnex showed a really good improvement, but even he forgot that he shouldn't flash an ext4 kernel, which he did and got bricked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you about this may or may not be worth it to the general public. But I was interested in this for the op as well as my curiosity .
That's also a great reason for this to stay in the dev support thread
The kernel supports both filesystem's , so flashing the f2fs kernel on a ext partition is OK , hell I'm running that combo now lol , I'm only using ( trying to ) f2fs for the userdata partition like the motoX .
I'm not doing this for recognition , weather its of value to anyone other than my curiosity or self is secondary , not saying I'm thinking only about me. But I would never put a ROM out that I didn't test on my phone first .
I'm compiling AOKP 4.4 now with hopefully everything I'm looking for . I'll post the eventual results .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bsmitty83 said:
I agree with you about this may or may not be worth it to the general public. But I was interested in this for the op as well as my curiosity .
That's also a great reason for this to stay in the dev support thread
The kernel supports both filesystem's , so flashing the f2fs kernel on a ext partition is OK , hell I'm running that combo now lol , I'm only using ( trying to ) f2fs for the userdata partition like the motoX .
I'm not doing this for recognition , weather its of value to anyone other than my curiosity or self is secondary , not saying I'm thinking only about me. But I would never put a ROM out that I didn't test on my phone first .
I'm compiling AOKP 4.4 now with hopefully everything I'm looking for . I'll post the eventual results .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that you're not gonna do anything silly, but I was warning just in case In fact, I'm keen to see another development going on Gnex!!
But are you really doing it like that? If I were you, I would certainly go to the REAL HELL.
Don't be a bat, just make everything f2fs. It won't do any good with ext4 + f2fs combo.
Zittoro said:
I know that you're not gonna do anything silly, but I was warning just in case In fact, I'm keen to see another development going on Gnex!!
But are you really doing it like that? If I were you, I would certainly go to the REAL HELL.
Don't be a bat, just make everything f2fs. It won't do any good with ext4 + f2fs combo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once I get more comfortable with the filesystem's I'll try doing the sdcard as well . don't think I'll be messing with boot or radio fs anytime soon lol
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Zittoro said:
I know that you're not gonna do anything silly, but I was warning just in case In fact, I'm keen to see another development going on Gnex!!
But are you really doing it like that? If I were you, I would certainly go to the REAL HELL.
Don't be a bat, just make everything f2fs. It won't do any good with ext4 + f2fs combo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it really take that long to mount the FS? The Moto X and G are using F2FS, does it take them forever to boot/mount?h
Also, can you point us in the direction of the person who got F2FS running on the Gnex/benchmarks? That would help shed some light on what could be gained and if it's worth it. It should be noted that F2FS has a lot of planned changes coming in the linux kernel (soon) which are supposed to make it even faster.
Here are benchmarks from Samsung displaying F2FS vs. EXT4 on a Samsung Galaxy S3: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1210.2/00005.html
Some of those performance gains are insane--twice as fast in some cases. Mounting time does look to be much, much slower--but we are talking about milliseconds here; is 2.2 seconds to mount a big deal? Doesn't seem like it, if you can improve your storage I/O by that much.
Shidell said:
Here are benchmarks from Samsung displaying F2FS vs. EXT4 on a Samsung Galaxy S3: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1210.2/00005.html
Some of those performance gains are insane--twice as fast in some cases. Mounting time does look to be much, much slower--but we are talking about milliseconds here; is 2.2 seconds to mount a big deal? Doesn't seem like it, if you can improve your storage I/O by that much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is worth it according to the person who ported it to Galaxy Nexus and his benchmark. I can't tell you who he is and how he did it for some reason, but I think the benchmark (Antutu I think) showed I/O score improved from low 400s to high 500s, and all of the other fields except 2D, which decreased in score, improved at least 10-20% each.
Frankly speaking, I just referred to the mounting time in comarison to ext4, sorry for confusion, so I wasn't saying it's like ol' fashioned computer days. Though, according to the Nexus 5 dev, it took him about 9 seconds to mount system partition. Maybe the reason why it's so slower than the s3 is that it differs by devices or the Samsung developers did an alien job porting it to s3. (Samsung optimization, you know)
Oh, and by the way, the f2fs gnex kernel wasn't released anywhere because he was testing for weeks or months and eventually figured it could be too dangerous, so he created a thread-like thing and asked if anyone wants it and how people thought about releasing it. No one replied, and a few days later, he got bricked, came back to ext4, and another few days later, his computer's hard drive got screwed up without backup, and so he lost the kernel and source.
Hmm. Sucks that he lost his work, that's too bad.
Honestly though, if F2FS is as good as it appears to be, then it seems that it would be a paradigm shift in the ROM community for Android as a whole. For example, F2FS support would be added to each device's kernel (for simplicity's sake, let's imagine CyanogenMod) for each device they support. ClockworkMod Recovery would then be rebuilt for each device (probably snapping to a new main version), which would exclusively format partitions to use F2FS instead of EXT4.
With F2FS support in the kernel for Recovery and Android, all the components are essentially in place, and people could start enjoying the additional performance improvements.
There would be the initial hurdle of porting F2FS support, building Recovery images, and making it clear that the new Recoveries are using F2FS and that a "fresh wipe" would be required to migrate to the new system. Once done, though, everything else should be easy like it is now with ROM updates, backups, etc.
The only other aspect would be a Windows/Mac driver for F2FS.
F2FS is really, really looking good now. If Samsung has even more performance tucked away like they claim they do, it'll really be something.
A couple of things that I've got to say on this topic as I've been trying hard to make this fs work , I'm pretty close , got a few critical pointers from the mighty dhacker29 but still working on getting it all to work together .
A kernel that supports f2fs is the easiest part , it was a pain initially patching it , but it still works just like any other kernel , only it supports another fs . It could be applied to any existing kernel very easily . ( I made it into one single git commit )
As I understand from what I've read in the motoX threads and different sources , twrp adopted f2fs as of twrp 2.6 , so recovery supports it , twrp does anyways and I'm sure I could get cm to work too .
The f2fs mkfs tools are present in 4.3 ROM sources all you have to do is edit boardconfig.mk and device.mk to include said tools
I edited the fstab to use f2fs on /data but when I build a ROM and flash , it goes straight to storage crypto unlock , which my guess is because its still ext4 so the /data isn't being loaded and that's why it jumps straight to unlock storage .
That's pretty much as far as I've gotten .
I'm still working on this , I know its a matter of a combo of how the device formats and partitions the /data.
So far no bricks , I've made my sdcard unmountable , but I just side loaded a ROM and reboot recovery and alls well . I adb pulled my entire sdcard just in case tho lol
If ever this works and its worth people using , not my call , it would be quite painfree . it would require a format of your sdcard , but only once .
And the reason that this is only applied to data and not all partitions is because the only benefits are from the userdata partition , its been tested .
Just sitting here watching my laptop compile yet again .....
Also its more than just a kernel for the gnex. Once all ROMs and kernels support both , it its totally possible , to say in aroma , pick which fs you want formatted , again you would lose your sdcard each time you switch but there's no way around it . just thinking outloud but I need to find out how I can have the install script format the data partition and mount it f2fs. Thats where its at
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
I'm waiting to continue this when I buy a new phone in the next month or so , when I retire my nexus I'll throw everything at it without worry , I am only concerned about partitioning my storage to f2fs , then if my ROM recovery and kernel doesn't work , being stuck with no way to repartition back to ext4 , but I don't think that's a possibility anyways as long as I can get back to recovery or adb I'm OK
Sorry bout the delay , but there's only so much experimentations I can do on my main phone . hopfully I'll have an end product to test soon . everything's just sitting waiting to be flashed . its frustrating waiting so if I get brave this weekend I might just try anyways
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Awesome progress man, you've accomplished a ton!
Is it necessary to partition Recovery as F2FS?
In my mind, it seems like you could stick with an EXT4 Recovery, and simply partition /System as F2FS, and flash a compatible ROM (as this is what the Moto X/G currently do), and that should be enough to see initial gains. Of course, if every partition is F2FS, there would be even more room for improvement--but /System should be enough at first.
Is there concern that partitioning /System could cause a brick? As long as you have a Recovery that can partition EXT4 or F2FS, you could always re-partition it easily from Recovery, right?
EDIT: I do understand your concern, though. It's possible to format via ADB, right? So, for example, if I wanted to be a guinea pig for you and flash my phone, I could do so--and if things go awry, I could repartition and restore from a NAND backup, right? As long as you can ADB in, and you can partition via ADB, seems like you can't really brick a device; that'd be like "bricking" a HDD by partitioning from FAT32 to NTFS to EXT4, wouldn't it?
From what I understand , the recovery can stay as is , twrp simply has the ability to recognize f2fs partitions , so once you are using f2fs , your data will be readable.
The actual partitioning tools are located within the ROM . it gets formatted upon flashing.
My concern is that if I repartition the entire /system partition , I could possibly lose the efs data , radio data too . from everything I've read on f2fs , its only beneficial on /userdata , and maybe /cache .
When I did flash an early build of twrp and the aokp ROM I made , when I booted to recovery I couldn't get my data to be read by twrp. So I sideloaded a ROM , then fastbooted a different recovery and all was good .
I don't really think I can brick my phone with what I have made now , its only being used on the data. I should be able to use adb or recovery or a combo to get it back from brick , but for now I really don't think it would be worth you trying just yet. I'll test it soon and if its good I'll post it , but I'm 99% sure it won't work lol . if it was an actual sdcard it would be so simple , but I know its gonna take a few more builds to figure it out . hang tight and I'll report what the outcome is asap ,
I'm still trying to figure out how to actually repartition the sdcard , I've tried modding the updater-script to do it but it status 7'ed on me .
I need to do some more trial and error but again all the pieces are there I think , just need to get it all working together . I'm gonna check out the motoG gits for some inspiration.
EDIT: i was looking in the motoX threads and i noticed that they were in fact formatting through twrp so im gonna explore that
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
how's the progress in this topic?
RcrdBrt said:
how's the progress in this topic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As soon as I get a new phone and no long have to worry about damaging this one , I'll test my last build out and update this .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bsmitty83 said:
As soon as I get a new phone and no long have to worry about damaging this one , I'll test my last build out and update this .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is something you cant solve, feel free to pm me. I have patched my cwm based recovery to read and format f2fs. This way i can format one or the other easily.
CyanogenMod 11 KitKat for Optimus S/V
This is a basic CyanogenMod 11 rom for the Optimus S/V. It has NOT been tested extensively and I take NO responsibility for any bricked phones, data loss or damages that occur as a result of flashing any version of this rom. It requires ClockWorkMod 6.0.4.5 or later, or TWRP 2.6.3 or later, in order to flash.
What works:
Phone calling (ZVH and ZVJ radios require a patch)
Wifi
Mobile data (thanks to thekraven)
USB tethering
Camera
USB mass storage, MTP
What's broken:
Bluetooth
Wifi tethering
SELinux
You tell me
CWM 6.0.4.6 can be found in the rom directory. Flash Skinny_4.4_Gapps.zip after flashing the rom to get Play Store and Google Sync. Other Gapps will probably be too big to fit on /system.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/nfgfef6qpril7/CM11
Contributors:
skinbark
bigsupersquid
thekraven
Special thanks to the CyanogenMod and androidarmv6 teams, also gu5t3r for GOptimize.
CM11 KitKat os2sd Version:
cm-11-20140116-thunderc-skinbark-sd.zip is a version of CM11 which is designed to run off your sd card.
To use this version:
1) create and format 3 ext4 partitions following the fat32 partition on your sd card (use gparted not a windows partitioning tool)
/data - at least 256 mb (512 mb or more recommended)
/system - at least 256 mb
/cache - at least 256 mb
2) format /boot in cwm
3) install cm-11-20140104-thunderc-sd.zip
4) install Skinny_4.4_Gapps-sd.zip and reboot
Known Issues (in addition to those in post #1):
formatting/backup/restore issues
possible reduced performance (older/slower sd cards)
reduced battery life (?)
Add wipe zips to a folder on your sd card and flash them from recovery to clear external /data, /system, /cache, or all three.
CWM_6.0.4.6-thunderc-sd.zip is a special version of CWM for os2sd that should only be used if you understand how it works.This version of CWM is not necessary to flash the os2sd rom. See this post for more info about recovery issues with this rom.
A Class 10 microSD card is recommended for best performance.
Power off or reboot to recovery before removing sd card.
os2sd mod courtesy of bigsupersquid
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/dj2d4vpp0hzvb/CM11sd
Warning: This is a highly experimental setup and a work-in-progress. You should have adb installed and know how to use it, along with the flash_image command, before attempting this install. If you have trouble installing this and are unsure how to resolve the problem ask for help on this thread. I take no responsibility for bricked devices, data loss or any other damages resulting from the use of this software. USE AT YOUR RISK.
New build with rild fix for ZVD/ZV5. You'll want to upgrade to this for stability and battery life even if you're not activated.
cm-11-20131225-thunderc-skinbark.zip
Link in OP.
Merry Christmas guys!
Sweet! Will flash once o find my ov...
Virgin fix uploaded.
Virgin.fix.CM11.0.zip
Link in OP.
I'll test. I still use this phone a bit. I don't use gapps anymore so I wouldn't be ale to ile any bugs against them. Is thereanything in particular you want tested?
captaincrook said:
I'll test. I still use this phone a bit. I don't use gapps anymore so I wouldn't be ale to ile any bugs against them. Is thereanything in particular you want tested?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the biggie right now is getting data going which is sort of difficult for me since my phone's not activated (next week I hope). I'm assuming you're not activated? I guess just general stability and performance, battery life, see what you can run on on it, put it through the wringer. All info is welcome since I really haven't had much feedback yet. It seems to be pretty stable. Let me know if you have any problems, thanks.
really works well...nice job. No chance to test 3g data yet, but everything else works very well...I had to install a keyboard manually, and the battery stats are wrong (fully charged, and stayed fully charged all day) but it is def a daily driver for me.
I uploaded a new 'OS2SD' rom with special recovery, gapps and virgin fix:
cm-11-20140101-thunderc-sd.zip
CWM_6.0.4.6-thunderc-sd.zip
Skinny_4.4_Gapps-sd.zip
Virgin-fix-CM11-sd.zip
Link in post #2. Happy New Year!
Got the order of the partitions wrong in post #2, sorry. Fixed now. 3G fix coming soon!
I uploaded new standard and os2sd builds with data fix.
cm-11-20140104-thunderc-skinbark.zip
Link in post #1
cm-11-20140104-thunderc-sd.zip
Link in post #2
After a crash fest with the build at the time of my last post, this newish one is alright so far. Things get choppy fast and the input is a real pain. That is about as good as I have it. Alternate market works, wifi is good, and its chugging along.
captaincrook said:
After a crash fest with the build at the time of my last post, this newish one is alright so far. Things get choppy fast and the input is a real pain. That is about as good as I have it. Alternate market works, wifi is good, and its chugging along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
long press home and press the three-bar onscreen button to close running apps.
also fast reboot off market is very handy to manually clear ram. heard about that one from andyopie150, like it.
Ya the main issue is just generally its a bit slow. I'm not trying to be one of those people who dog the ROM cause devs sibt human but this is just what I have experienced. I know our SOC came out when Moses was around so I'm not expecting miracles. I'm not sure if you guys have more planned or not but its really neat how efficient the phone is on 4.4 and if it was to get faster it'd be amazing.
The keyboard, can you guys adjust the size values? Its microscopic! Hacker's Keyboard fits the bill in the meantime.
captaincrook said:
Ya the main issue is just generally its a bit slow. I'm not trying to be one of those people who dog the ROM cause devs sibt human but this is just what I have experienced. I know our SOC came out when Moses was around so I'm not expecting miracles. I'm not sure if you guys have more planned or not but its really neat how efficient the phone is on 4.4 and if it was to get faster it'd be amazing.
The keyboard, can you guys adjust the size values? Its microscopic! Hacker's Keyboard fits the bill in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For now I can just suggest the usual speed-up stuff - turn off animations, ksm, cpu/governor etc. There may be some build.prop tweaks you could use, and I'm expectiing zram support to be enabled soon. Crossbreeder might be something else to try. If we could get ART going it might help some but I don't know if that's likely. I probably won't try to tweak the stock keyboard, there's plenty of alternatives available.
tried flashing this on my optimus V and i got a error when i was flashing it, error 7 i think it was, i used the CWM you wanted us to use but it made it so that i couldnt boot into recovery.
Trozzul said:
tried flashing this on my optimus V and i got a error when i was flashing it, error 7 i think it was, i used the CWM you wanted us to use but it made it so that i couldnt boot into recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
regular rom or os2sd?
skinbark said:
regular rom or os2sd?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
regular i tried a different CWM 6+ and that one gave me the error*
Trozzul said:
regular i tried a different CWM 6+ and that one gave me the error*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's another recovery you can try.
https://www.mediafire.com/?s8c94941y8kubdd
captaincrook said:
Ya the main issue is just generally its a bit slow. I'm not trying to be one of those people who dog the ROM cause devs sibt human but this is just what I have experienced. I know our SOC came out when Moses was around so I'm not expecting miracles. I'm not sure if you guys have more planned or not but its really neat how efficient the phone is on 4.4 and if it was to get faster it'd be amazing.
The keyboard, can you guys adjust the size values? Its microscopic! Hacker's Keyboard fits the bill in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any information is a good thing, positive or negative. Harmonia with the Xionia kernel fairly flies speed-wise, but everything since that seems to choke my phone somewhat. And Mirage is the best Gingerbread available... but I enjoy the extra features more than the speed, which is what keeps me trying for the bleeding edge.
(example: the double-tap-hold-and-slide to zoom is built in all over 4.4, in 4.2 I only saw that in Maps.)
ART may or may not happen. I have to learn more thumb assembly to fix it. My decent class for school this session (the easy one since I did 8088 back in 1991) is x86 assembly. Doesn't apply, but maybe I can get more parallell info from it. There's lots of good info out on the net with minimal searching as well, but not much if any on downconversion of thumb2 to thumb1 code. I found enough to fix a few files but there's still more to go. I'd be impressed with myself if I got that to run.
CrossBreeder seems to work.
Hi
I changed my previous file system in data and cache ext4 into f2fs. I still get the same writing-reading speed as previously file system. I have 3/64 mi5s
As far as I know both the kernel and ROM have to support f2fs for you to get benefit of f2fs, even then the performance improvement is not that noticeable, take a look at https://www.xda-developers.com/f2fs-put-to-the-test-against-ext4/
And
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2697069
Especially last page a post by optimumpro
webslasher said:
As far as I know both the kernel and ROM have to support f2fs for you to get benefit of f2fs, even then the performance improvement is not that noticeable, take a look at https://www.xda-developers.com/f2fs-put-to-the-test-against-ext4/
And
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2697069
Especially last page a post by optimumpro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got it. How can I revert it without losing data then? Would staying with f2fs do any harm? Thanks for your efforts. And can I backup my data with titanium after reverting it
warface9991 said:
I got it. How can I revert it without losing data then? Would staying with f2fs do any harm? Thanks for your efforts. And can I backup my data with titanium after reverting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
F2fs wont do any harm, it will do you good as it reduces the amount writes your phone does in the long term which actually increases the lifespan of the storage device. Also your read speeds seem really slow. Here are my results with f2fs
warface9991 said:
I got it. How can I revert it without losing data then? Would staying with f2fs do any harm? Thanks for your efforts. And can I backup my data with titanium after reverting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will be fine, f2fs is there mostly to take advantage of flash storage by writing it how it should be written. Like making all area of the flash storage used evenly. Speed will be mostly restricted to the hardware itself.
crzykiller said:
F2fs wont do any harm, it will do you good as it reduces the amount writes your phone does in the long term which actually increases the lifespan of the storage device. Also your read speeds seem really slow. Here are my results with f2fs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with this guy, it will prolong lifespan but speed increase is not its main advantage for now, it's still early in its development.
Here is mine, 128/4 model on Resurrection Remix Ext4, it is.. Compared to you both, Kind of slow I guess. Not sure where to start looking.