Develop Bugs

[Q] Developing a NFC, Wireless charging dock

Hi to the fantastic team of minds on XDA! I'm currently working through building a wireless charging/streaming dock with NFC for my Nexus 5, although the plan is to extend support to any device that supports Wireless Charging & NFC.
Basic concept is for use in a car, but could also be adapted for other situations easily. Basic operation is drop phone in charging area/cradle, NFC tag is read by phone and either launches the music player OR for me in my case, runs tasker to set volume max, play library on shuffle, launch GPS tracking for work/private mileage etc and the phone would stream audio to a receiver wired into the cars headunit.
NFC/Wireless charging.. piece of cake. Audio streaming... not so fun.
I would really like decent audio quality, not quite audiophile level but certainly at least as good as the 3.5mm line out from the headphone jack. Initially I disliked the idea of bluetooth due to quality however looking around I found some Bluetooth 4 APT-X enabled boards that seemed to fit the bill fairly well as apparently APT-X sounds much better in comparison to A2DP (haven't tried out for myself though). Only problem is the Nexus as well as a lot of other devices don't support APT-X. Other than bluetooth I'm really struggling to find a good quality wireless streaming standard that is fairly plug and play. I found a WiFi option via DTS using DLNA but the details on the receiving hardware are sketchy, it also doesn't seem very transparent (requires input from 3rd party apps etc).
I also found a few posts relating to Chromecast enabled media servers that will allow Play music to cast music to them, but again, can't really find any pre made WiFi enabled DLNA "dumb" servers designed to simply capture an audio stream. Again, not very transparent. Ideally it would work natively and without much 3rd party input.. although this may not be entirely possible so I'm open to all options.
So, what are my options? Also, why with Bluetooth 4 with the max bitrate of 20+mbps do we not have a high bit rate audio streaming profile/protocol?
I did consider the idea of a wired DAC, but the major plus on the cable free design is being able to just drop the phone in and grab it out without fiddling for cables. Also the Nexus 5 doesn't support USB DAC OOTB. I also had difficulty sourcing a DAC that would output acceptable audio (at least as good as the headphone jack) for a good price. Everything I found was either expensively high end or nasty & cheap. All I need is a bare board that gets stuffed into a cable box and works! I bought a cheap $5 DAC off ebay ages ago for testing. Worst mistake ever!!! Horrible sound, but hey it was $5
Thanks for any input!
- Auzeras

If bluetooth sound qualitiy is too bad for you (for me its ok with my JVC radio) i think the aux cable is the only option. But if you have to plug in the cable the "just drop your phone"-concept is gone. I suggest trying to use the USB port for audio out (because aux input isnt a big deal for most of the cars) und charging at the same time. For the dock i think using the brodit docks is ok although these docks are expensive. Alternativly you could try to use a cheaper dock.
For USB audio out i think a cheap DAC like this should be fine, but you need the usb audio recorder pro app (see this thread). Next thing is charging at the same time. Maybe its possible to do it like this with an powered usb hub but you'll have to try that. Overall its more the developing of an USB aux output with the ability of charging but i think its the only option to get the audio qualitiy you want.

External DACs and the OPO: Which Work Best?

Here's a list of DACs reportedly working with the OPO:
The Audioquest Dragonfly works with USB Audio Recorder/Player Pro (as long as Tweak 1 is installed, according to chazman1117)
The FiiO E07k, according to this OnePlus One Forums member.
The Fiio E10 actually works with "an OTG cable and no external power," as reported by benoitb and confirmed by me! The E10 doesn't require UAPP/UARP to work; it receives signal from every audio player I've used, and EQ utilities also have a direct effect.
But since I've read that using an unpowered USB DAC with an unpowering source can damage said source, I don't think I'll be making a habit of using an E10 with my OPO -- especially in light of this week's exploding battery fiasco.
The FiiO E17 works well with the CyanHacker ROM and possibly stock CM as well (according to sandels' findings)
The FiiO E18 (confirmations appear here and here, though it's a tad unclear whether the latter poster's talking about an OPO or a "graveyarded" Nexus 5)
The FiiO E7 is working with the OPO, according to Head-fi's Cattlethief.
The Apex Glacier DAC, Poimandres of Head-fi assures us, not only works quite well with the CM's 38r 24/192-ready update but "streams USB audio from Neutron divinely." (Apex wants you to know that the Glacier uses a "bipolar power supply" -- best to listen to demanding headphones when it's not in the manic phase, apparently!)
The HiFiMeDIY TinyDAC works with KitKat but not Android L, reportedly; I know from personal experience that it works with an OPO running CM11 stock.
The HRT Music Streamer II is working with the OPO, according to Head-fi's Cattlethief.
The iFi Nano iDSD is reportedly working with the OPO according to this post by Head-fi member cattlethief.
The NuForce uDAC-2 is reportedly working with the OPO according to this post on Head-Fi (to which DanBa was kind enough to drop in and link).
The Rega DAC works with the OPO without any issues according to mapin0518, who used it with Google Play Music and this Micro USB to USB OTG Adapter.
The Sony PHA-1, according to this Head-fi member.
The Stoner Acoustics UD120 DAC is working with the OPO, according to Head-fi's Cattlethief -- though only with UAPP.
The Vamp Verza works with stock music players as well as UAPP/UARP according to chazmann1117's findings. Update: Chazmann now reports that, "when using the settings required by the DAC for an android phone," there is "barely audible" noise. The noise goes away if you switch to "apple mode" on the Verza, but that makes the battery drain far more quickly.
The YuLong U100 works a treat with the OPO, according to mrruin.
(I recall reading that the JDS Labs C5D also works with the OPO, but I'm still looking for concrete verification.)
* * * * *
History​
Most people who are interested in using external DACs with Android phones have been following DanBa's Android DAC thread on Head-fi for the past few years.
DanBa is focused on DAC compatibility with mainstream devices by Samsung and Nexus because the former has been the most popular maker of Android phones and the latter is Google's intersection with chosen hardware companies. Samsung and Nexus devices, DanBa reasons, will affect Google's implementation of USB audio most directly and so are most deserving of his time.
That's why it's unlikely he'll create a list of DACs that work with the OnePlus One.
It's also why I thought we might create one ourselves.

I have a Fiio E17 and it's working. I've had a couple issues with the apps crashing but I've only just started testing so I'll update when I know more. Plays both MP3 and FLAC fine.
I'm running CyanHacker ROM.
OnePlus One > USB OTG adaptor > USB cable > Fiio E17 > Earphones > Ears

After more days of listening I can confirm that Fiio E17 works great with the OPO. I suspect the first few crashes were ROM related. Let me know if you have any questions and I can test stuff.

I have the OPO and can conform that the Audioquest Dragonfly and the FiiO E-7 work fine, although I had to enable USB tweak 1 in the USB Audio Player Pro as I would randomly lose sync with the DAC.
I will update this post later today as I will have the opportunity to test the V-Moda Vamp Verza.

I would appreciate feedback on DACs without using UAPP since the app brings its own driver interface to communicate with DACs. Outside the app DACs quickly loose the ability to work with various phones.
So if you have a DAC and a OPO phone, please give feedback without using UAPP and see if it works with a standard music player. Thanks!
My Yulong U100 works, but it is not a portable or widely available DAC.

mrruin said:
I would appreciate feedback on DACs without using UAPP since the app brings its own driver interface to communicate with DACs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used or installed UAPP at all. Apps I've used are Apollo, Soundcloud, Youtube, Chrome, and various games. System sounds and the like are all fine as well. As far as I'm can tell the E17 + OPO works with anything and everything.

mrruin said:
I would appreciate feedback on DACs without using UAPP since the app brings its own driver interface to communicate with DACs. Outside the app DACs quickly loose the ability to work with various phones. So if you have a DAC and a OPO phone, please give feedback without using UAPP and see if it works with a standard music player. Thanks! My Yulong U100 works, but it is not a portable or widely available DAC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Then again, perhaps other people might like to know which DACs work with the OPO in whatever capacity -- with UARP or without. Anyone who's gracious enough to test their DAC with their setup and report their findings here has my gratitude whether or not they have to use UARP -- yourself included. (I believe the Dragonfly does require UARP, hence chazman's specific feedback, if I understood him correctly.)
No need to limit the scope of this thread to the setup you desire. Your interests will still be covered.
2. It sounds as though your Yulong U100 works without UARP, since you didn't mention using it and are interested specifically in avoiding it, correct?

Reignogleph MMXI said:
1. Then again, perhaps other people might like to know which DACs work with the OPO in whatever capacity -- with UARP or without. Anyone who's gracious enough to test their DAC with their setup and report their findings here has my gratitude whether or not they have to use UARP -- yourself included. (I believe the Dragonfly does require UARP, hence chazman's specific feedback, if I understood him correctly.)
No need to limit the scope of this thread to the setup you desire. Your interests will still be covered.
2. It sounds as though your Yulong U100 works without UARP, since you didn't mention using it and are interested specifically in avoiding it, correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally from what I have seen almost any DAC with standard USB interface will work with UAPP. They really did a good job with that app and its driver interface, no doubt. But it is also no native support, there is an interface layer in between.
What would be perfect is that everyone who tries to use their DAC with their phone not only tries UAPP but also "normal" operation. Too often that information is missing. However if a DAC works without UAPP it will work with Ultimate Audio Player Pro as well.
So in my case the U100 works systemwide, with any audio/video app I tried. Stock and CM based roms.
sandels said:
I haven't used or installed UAPP at all. Apps I've used are Apollo, Soundcloud, Youtube, Chrome, and various games. System sounds and the like are all fine as well. As far as I'm can tell the E17 + OPO works with anything and everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
perfect, thanks

mrruin said:
Generally from what I have seen almost any DAC with standard USB interface will work with UAPP. They really did a good job with that app and its driver interface, no doubt. But it is also no native support, there is an interface layer in between.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't always true that any USB DAC will work with UARP. The success is very much dependent on the player and the DAC. Another factor is power, of course. If, for example, a USB DAC intended to be powered by the computer for which it was designed (cf. the Dragonfly) only worked with the OPO when an external powered hub was added, I'd want to know that as well.
mrruin said:
What would be perfect is that everyone who tries to use their DAC with their phone not only tries UAPP but also "normal" operation. Too often that information is missing. However if a DAC works without UAPP it will work with Ultimate Audio Player Pro as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just did a search for "Ultimate Audio Player Pro" on the playstore and found nothing. Are you certain you don't mean USB Audio Recorder Pro?
Also: When people say that a DAC works with USB Audio Recorder Pro, I believe they're trying to say that it doesn't work without UARP. The convenient shorthand for them might be to add the word only:
"Schiit-on-a-Wheel Audio's Nordic Conquest DAC works with CM OS and the stock music app, but Megathrum's MeagerDAC works only with UARP and revision 340.2(c) of the ThermalCup ROM."

that's the one
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro
it is "USB" not "Ultimate" Audio Player Pro. Same developer.

chazman1117 said:
I have the OPO and can conform that the Audioquest Dragonfly and the FiiO E-7 work fine, although I had to enable USB tweak 1 in the USB Audio Player Pro as I would randomly lose sync with the DAC.
I will update this post later today as I will have the opportunity to test the V-Moda Vamp Verza.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am listening to the V-Moda Vamp Verza right now using Poweramp. Works flawlessly, sounds awesome. Also works with Google Play music as well as USB Audio Player Pro.

mrruin said:
that's the one
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro
it is "USB" not "Ultimate" Audio Player Pro. Same developer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it: You meant to type USB but typed Ultimate -- perhaps because it turns out you're not alone.
I point this out not to be a vast hulking dink but because (1) there's an app called "Ultimate Audio Player," which people might mistakenly download instead, and (2) I googled the name "Ultimate Audio Recorder Pro" and found threads like this one, in which Head-fi members used the incorrect name for the app -- and one of them happens to be NZtechfreak -- a dedicated cataloger of USB DACs.
Note, too, that user phi303 had the same experience I did: S/he looked for Ultimate Audio Player Pro on the Playstore and found nothing. It's interesting that that's happened more than twice.
For the above reasons, I think it's worthwhile for people to know we're talking about USB Audio Player Pro sans the word Ultimate. Since I wasn't familiar with that UARP offshoot until you made me aware of it, I wouldn't expect every DAC user to know it either -- not automatically, at least.
Both UARP and UAPP use drivers that bypass the limitations of source software, which is why I suspected they had to be the same software with an incorrect initialism or variants of the same original software.

another +1 for fiio E17 working on oneplus one (i'm assuming the OP is using on the stock rom)
Confirmed the OPO will work with FIIO E17 via USB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/opo-usb-audio.20694/page-3

chazman1117 said:
I am listening to the V-Moda Vamp Verza right now using Poweramp. Works flawlessly, sounds awesome. Also works with Google Play music as well as USB Audio Player Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update--
After extensive listening I had to return the V-Moda Vamp Versa DAC. When using the settings required by the DAC for an android phone there is audible (barely) noise. If you change the settings to apple mode - the noise goes away, but the battery drains extremely quick. No Bueno.

Rega DAC works
My OnePlus One recognized my Rega DAC without any issues. I used it with Google Play Music.
OnePlus One -> USB Micro OTG to USB 2.0 Adapter -> USB cable -> Rega DAC -> Rega (or any) Amp
Cable: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005QX7KYU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
DAC: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-12208-rega-dac.aspx

Thanks, mapin and chazman -- and thanks to DanBa for dropping me a note about the uDAC2.
List updated; it now includes a few new findings from users on Head-fi's OPO thread.

Added to list: the Apex Glacier, Stoner UD 120, HRT Music Streamer 2 and FiiO E7.
Thanks for those updates go to Poinmandres, cattlethief and DanBa.

The Aune T1 works great!!great sound!using a USB micro otg tot USB 2.0 adapter.

i also confirm fiio17 works with oneplus one (usb audio player pro). A nice combination but not to portable is to connect to e17 a e12 as headphone amp(with fiio l7). It drives my sennheiser hd600 excellent and even my ie8.

User confirms cd5 works with opo
http://www.reddit.com/r/androidaudio/comments/2ro7r3/my_android_audio_setup_is_complete/

Looking for a dac not to expensive

I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks

Please

nitramus said:
I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you have not a faulty cable/ nexus 5 connector or bad regulated equalizer on nexus 5?
I ask you cause I m not an audiophile but nexus 5 sound great to my ears, almost like nexus s which feature one of the best DAC on portable devices

nitramus said:
I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try dragonfly by Audioquest or Cambridge Audio USB DAC. They sound awesome. I prefer the latter one. =)

Thanks for the reply. Everything I get gives me more info to search and get informed.

If you want a good dac at reasonable money try fio,get from Amazon
Sent from my Nexus 5

"Sucks" is a subjective term, but I agree with Axel85. If you're currently getting terrible sound, a USB DAC is a costly hail-mary that likely won't solve your problem. USB OTG DACs are great way to salvage an aging phone as a media player or to bypass a damaged the 3.5mm output. Otherwise, they're a way to turn already "great" sound into "exceptional." I can say with complete confidence that, even over bluetooth, the Nexus 5's built-in audio is impressive. If it "sucks" on your setup, then you definitely want to ensure that the problem doesn't lie elsewhere before investing in a DAC. If it is, in fact, the Nexus 5, ship that sucker back to Google, because a DAC definitely won't help. Just be sure there aren't other elements in your setup putting the constraints on your sound reproduction.
Now if you're truly blessed (cursed?) with golden ears and an audiophile's insatiable desire for perfection, then "sucks" probably has a different meaning for you; Otherwise, it's best to rule out everything else before plopping down substantial cash on a USB DAC. On that note, the Nexus' internal DAC crushes any entry-level/ low-end ($30-$50 DAC), so you'd really only want to consider the next step up, and it is a big step in price. Great units from $120-$200 from Fiio or Cambridge Audio. I've heard the Audioengine D3 on a laptop and it was fantastic, the form factor is great, as well, but I haven't investigated whether it plays nicely with lollipop OTG. There are a lot of issues to consider -some are legitimate headaches. Aside from the additional clutter of more cables and another powered device, the effect on your phone's battery is not one to take lightly. You may be able to currently stream pandora all day long, but with your phone acting as a USB host, you have to be conscious of the potential power draw from any USB DAC. A big amplifier can drain that battery quickly without its own power source to supplement. Many DACs are even equipped with their own internal batteries, but regardless, the power question is not something to minimize. Depending on the unit, powered USB hubs and the right cables can provide an easy fix.
But before you go pulling the trigger on a DAC, let me suggest a few things and some troubleshooting steps...
On the software side:
Play with built-in equalizer/AudioFX/DSP (it may do nothing at all with your ROM & kernel). I also highly recommend that you try playing your media through an app called PowerAmp. If that doesn't give you the fidelity boost you're looking for, then give Viper4Android a whirl. It requires a slightly more complicated installation (depending on the ROM), and the tweaking can get advanced, but the results are truly impressive with the right music. "FauxSound" is a custom kernel I'm yet to experiment with because it's (currently) incompatible with CM12.1 CAF, but the reviews in the forums seem overwhelmingly positive. When it comes to sound, perceptible differences vary from person to person.
As to troubleshooting the phone's output:
It should go without saying, but if your factory head unit and speakers and are junk ...if music has never sounded good on your system, a USB DAC isn't the miracle worker you need. Spend the money on a decent head unit and/or upgrade your speakers. An underpowered, factory installed head unit can turn otherwise decent speakers into muffled distortion makers, so take stock of the equipment you're working with and manage expectations. If you're an audiophile, you can likely ignore much of this, but for the sake of anyone else in a similar boat, considering a DAC to improve audio, lets go down the troubleshooting checkbox:
1) First and foremost, check your source files. If you're streaming, make sure it's high quality. You may need to go into the app's advanced settings. For most people's ears, there are diminishing returns above 320kbps MP3 /256AAC vs. the storage requirements. With the right gear and the right source though, "lossless" music can bring out elements you never heard on your favorite tracks: fingers lifting and moving along frets, or a half-note you never caught. If your ROM is capable of natively playing 96000Hz 24-bit FLAC, by all means, give it a go (or any other lossless).
2) Test your 3.5mm headphone connection with decent pair of actual headphones. Still sucks? Spray the jack with compressed air and see if it helps. Try with another set of headphones. Try with a friend's car, try on your home stereo. Then connect to your car and compare. If it's worse, swap out the cable before anything else. Quality matters here. The difference between the the $0.99 cable you buy at the gas station and the $12 cable at BestBuy can be huge. A quality cable means one sheilded for interference with wiring and connectors made of materials that optimize conductivity (often a thin gold plating). Many are even cut specifically to ensure a solid connection through the narrow opening of an aftermarket case/protector. A better connection means better sound.
3) If all is well with the 3.5mm, plug it into your mobile charger. Audio still clean? If not, try another charger. Still sounding crappy? Is this limited to the car or did you hear it on your headphones? How about over bluetooth? If it's only in the car, and sound gets worse on the charger, there might be a ground loop somewhere in the car's electrical system (often this manifests as a high frequency whine that increases as you accelerate, or changes frequency when you turn on the A/C, headlights, etc). This could be as simple as something plugged into the cars cigarette lighter, or a bad connection somewhere in the vehicles electrical system... The problem is the "somewhere" part, and tracing it down can mean pulling fuses all day long.
3) If you connect over bluetooth (not optimal) perform the same tests. If bluetooth degrades audio quality significantly, then your car stereo may be on an older standard that simply can't operate at the bandwidth capabilities for high-bitrate audio. Aside from just not using bluetooth, there's no simple fix for this. If you dont get a drop in audio quality when connecting to another bluetooth device, then your in-car options are limited: connect via 3.5mm out, replace the head unit with a newer one, or install a bluetooth 4.0+ adapter to the car stereo's auxillary inputs. It's worth at least mentioning that, although unlikely, interference from other devices could be an issue. Anything that operates within the same wireless spectrum as bluetooth could be a source of interference. A bluetooth obdii reader, a wireless transmitter from a rear view camera, even other phones in the car that have been paired with the stereo.... Anything on 2.4ghz Normally, there's a preamble before transmission that keeps devices operating on these frequencies from interfering with each other, but if there's a bluetooth device in the vehicle on an early standard, that may not be the case. Also, if there's any USB 3.0 connection (powered hub, thumb drive) in close proximity to bluetooth, get rid of it or buy a shielded extension cable -noise emitted at the connection crushes bluetooth throughput and connection reliability.
Regardless, just make sure that the rest of your system is up to the task before investing in a DAC. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic with the right gear, but each component of your setup can improve output as much as it can act as a bottleneck on the quality of the sound it reproduces. Make sure the investment is worth it by ensuring your system is ready for it. If not, put your money towards the fundamentals: Head unit + speakers.

mborzill said:
If your ROM is capable of natively playing 96000Hz 24-bit FLAC, by all means, give it a go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you aware of any such ROMs?

Well, some clarification is necessary... even stock kitkat should *play* a 24/96FLAC, but "Natively" isn't the correct terminology. If that were true 24/96 on the N5, this thread wouldn't exist. The Nexus 5 downsamples significantly, but the better the source, the better the sample. Quality will be great coming from a lossless 24bit/96khz source, but its not gonna be true 24/96 if its coming from the Nexus 5's internal DAC. It'll be downsampled to its hardware and software limitations. I know with kitkat this was 16bit/48khz, but I can't speak to whether or not this ceiling *actually* increased with Lollipop. In theory, the N5's Qualcomm Wolfson wcd9320 DAC supported up to 192khz, and Lollipop bumped support up to 96khz, but if I recall, it's the Snapdragon 800 that isn't capable of 24/96. Without a DAC, and downsampled to 16bit/48khz, you might get an imperceptibly lower noise floor, but other than I doubt you'd hear a difference between lossless sources.
Personally I think it's total overkill to use up that kind of space without having a DAC capable of reproducing it (or freakin golden ears) but if you're going for the most accurate reference track you can find for problem-tracing, have at it. Even Downsampled, that FLAC will sound much better than an encoded mp3.
If there's a ROM with true "native" 24/96khz reproduction on the N5 I certainly don't know about it... Or need it.
As to specific ROMs and compatibility: Cyanogenmod is my go-to. I prefer Viper4Android over AudioFX, but with major tweaking (specific to my headphones). Out of the box, AudioFX is great.
Lollipop, in general, has vastly improved audio performance. Raised sampling resolution from 16 bit PCM to 24bit and sampling rate from 44/48khz to support 96khz (if the phones hardware can support it, else USB DAC). Lower i/o latency gives the closest thing android has seen to real-time audio since the start (which has been a major issue for musicians,DJ, game developers, even VoIP). Floating point sampling is new too, which, in theory, reduces clipping, improves headroom and dynamic range.

Do I need to use a custom ROM with an external DAC like the Fiio E18 or other DAC's? Could I simply purchase any external DAC? If not what do I need to look for when shopping for external DAC's that work with the Nexus 5?
My Nexus 5 is stock currently on 5.1.
Thank you for any advice.

Viper 4 android.

Lossless Bluetooth receivers

Long story short I had a Note 4 (that took a dump and died) where I played music on VLC via the HDMI out into one of those eBay Chinese HDMI to Optical converters, from there into my car processor (Alpine PXA-H800). Worked like a charm, very clean sound.
To replace the dead Note 4 I got an S8, but this thing does not want to play nice (or I am being stupid). Will not work with an MHL cable (same as the cable I was using with the Note 4 but USB Type-C instead). From what I understand these phone do not play well with MHL cables (please correct me if I am wrong as this is the route I would like to go). I hear the SlimPort may work, but then I saw this Bluetooth Receiver that claims lossless data transfer (lossless is the ultimate goal). Also, since my processor has an optical input that will also be a requirement (optical output).
Has anyone has any experience with these devices and the connectivity that I am trying to achieve? Has anyone has been successful doing what I am trying to do? I have been without music in my car since my Note 4 died and it is getting old.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Hi, we are basically in the same situation. Sadly I think you are going to find it is rare for someone to have answers to any of this, as very few people are familiar with the systems/protocols we are trying to use and there is a lot of confusion or bad information out there.
I am currently using an Alpine PXA-H701 DSP/5.1 decoder and have experimented with various things trying to accomplish the same thing as you.
First, the Bluetooth receiver you mentioned is a LIE - that is false advertising. It doesn't even support APT-X, which my Sony Z Ultra phone and the Bose Bluetooth Receiver I recently installed do. Bluetooth simply cannot even support full-resolution stereo data, so it certainly cannot support 5.1 or lossless. Right now, the only wireless way to do that is (supposedly) Chromecast Audio or DLNA.
APT-X is the best sounding Bluetooth protocol currently offered, however it is not lossless - there is a penalty on frequency response, and I believe the upper frequencies are band-limited to around 16KHz if I read correctly somewhere. It sounds nice but still isn't CD quality. I can tell the difference vs. lossless when I tested my Chromecast.
Very much like you, I have used a Monoprice HDMI audio extractor and MHL cable successfully to pass through lossless bit-perfect audio including 5.1 (which is not lossless, but demonstrates passthrough ability, not downscaling or transcoding) via Kodi for Android. I would have liked to use MX Player but at the time they had removed AAC/5.1 audio decoding so there was no sound, but I now have the codex for it and will re-test.
Kodi can play music, videos, etc but the interface is not simple like VLC or MX Player.
Also, lossless FLAC files can be used wirelessly with the Chromecast Audio but you'll need a player that supports casting or BubbleUPnP, which now can transmit lossless FLAC to the Chromecast. However, it's a work-around for sending audio and when trying to play videos or YouTube; the lag is tremendous so it's not good for playing video on the device while casting audio. I currently do not have a media player that can cast so I used the BubbleUPnP module within Xposed Framework (had to root my phone) for music.
USB-DAC (w/ optical output) adapters would be ideal, too, but USB OTG in Android does not currently support charging while using an external USB-DAC/Optical adapter, so it will drain your battery down. So that's unfortunately not an option in current Android OS to the best of my knowledge.
To make matters worse, very few phones as you know support MHL/HDMI output, and even fewer APT-X. But to get real lossless via optical you can use any phone you want that has a hotspot feature if you use the Chromecast Audio and FLAC audio files, or WAV if they're lossless too. Otherwise we're stuck with phones/tablets that support MHL only since USB audio can't support charging.
Then another potential problem is that of discharging your phone's battery when using an MHL cable/adapter. I read here that when an MHL standard device is attached, the phone will charge. I haven't verified this.
So, from what I've found it comes down to this:
For WIRED lossless digital audio, will have to be MHL/HDMI, limited to very few phones/tablets with the feature. This assumes the device will be able to charge - so that's still an important question to answer. In this case video could also be support & synced pretty well to audio
For WIRELESS lossless digital audio, any Android device w/ hotspot ability can connect to a Chromecast Audio and BubbleUPnP will allow casting FLAC files from a media player like VLC or MX Player. You can also use Spotify and other supporting apps to cast digital audio to the Chromecast. Video will not be synced to audio, so that's out, unless you use Bluetooth for audio when playing videos on the device.
USB-out on Android is not currently the end-all solution until charging in host mode is supported
No lossless audio possible on Bluetooth (it's compressed by nature); any claims otherwise are false advertising
So, I'll have to try MHL w/ my HDMI extractor and some way to try to see if my Sony can charge while doing so. Otherwise, I'll have to use both Bluetooth (at the cost of reduced quality) for video files [due to sync issues] and cast to Chromecast Audio for lossless audio. I tested a tablet like the Nvidia Shield w/ separate HDMI out, and that's all I needed - the HDMI audio extractor only.
Your Samsung may need a better/different MHL cable, because I'm not familar with the S8 but I have seen that not all MHL cable work well as the OEM and also they're often not interchangeable.
Hope this helps!

Thanks a lot for the elaborate reply. I used to have the PXA-H701 and I loved it. When I had my Note 4 I was able to charge while playing, the charge was slow but it kept the phone from discharging while playing music but it would still discharge while using the GPS. I am going to give the MHL cable I listed above a try and see if it works, it does list the S8 after all. Worst case I'll return the cable and get me a used Note 4 as a music player and be done with this. Thanks again.

That's cool, as long as you have a way to do it that's great. I'll try my Z Ultra again tonight, but I have a simple cable and not a real MHL adapter. I think mine will drain therefore.
I'm trying to have an all-in-one media player with bit-perfect optical output using a phone and not installing a dedicated tablet, if possible.
It is ridiculous to have so many catch-22s and hassles in this day and age to just do this one basic function!
Glad I could contribute.

Fyi, my note 4 worked with the cable , not the adapter.

Update: well, you are lucky if your Samsung can charge with the cable and not a MHL device connected - the Sony Xperias apparently cannot, and similar for other brands of phone & tablets, it turns out.
After some research, it turns out that most devices with an MHL port will drain the battery because when not connected to an MHL-compliant device like a TV with the option (Example: Sony Bravia TV, MHL charge option) the charge/supply is limited and not sufficient - it's not full charge mode.
My work around I've found is what someone else described - using my MHL cable while also using my magnetic charge port & magnetic charge cable attached. Tested while playing a video in Kodi 16.1 - phone is now charging, no battery draining pop-up.
(I'm posting this in case someone else finds this thread and has similar problems)
I'll also try an MHL adapter "box" and see if that is compliant and can charge the phone.
Sound quality is great via HDMI/Toslink!

Question USB C to 3.5mm Headphone and Charger Adapter that works on Pixel 6 Pro

Has anyone managed to find a USB C to 3.5mm Headphone and Charger Adapter 2in1 for the Pixel 6 Pro. The few I have tried so far only at best will work the audio port but none will charge. Hoping to find one that does both for when driving to be able to charge and listen to music with the 3,5 mm headphone attached to my car radio input. Adapters similar to the attached images that work would be ideal.
Thanks

Unfortunately, the only ones I've seen that reputably work for Power Delivery phones are effectively "hubs", like Anker USB C Hub, PowerExpand 11-in-1 USB C Hub Adapter, with [email protected] HDMI and DP, 100W Power Delivery, USB-C and 3 USB-A Data Ports, 1 Gbps Ethernet, 3.5mm Audio, microSD and SD Card Reader (sold out on Anker's site PowerExpand 11-in-1 USB-C PD Hub). They make other hubs, but I don't see any others of theirs that have a 3.5mm headphone port.
I too, wouldn't mind a more compact and cheaper solution, but I no longer really care about 3.5mm headphone jacks and would be happy with a similar adapter with two USB-C ports - one for USB-C headphones and the other for charging. I may have seen some like that too but not sure as to their reputation, and overall it's not that important to me.

Might be a logic glitch where it assumes that having a usb "device" plugged in means that the phone needs to supply the power rather than receive it.
Does your car radio really not have bluetooth?
And since you are in a car, how about a Qi charger pad?

you would need
Fladnag99 said:
Has anyone managed to find a USB C to 3.5mm Headphone and Charger Adapter 2in1 for the Pixel 6 Pro. The few I have tried so far only at best will work the audio port but none will charge. Hoping to find one that does both for when driving to be able to charge and listen to music with the 3,5 mm headphone attached to my car radio input. Adapters similar to the attached images that work would be ideal.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just search usb c to audio charger
and make sure its compatible with a samsung device as they require a DAC in the usb like the google does

96carboard said:
Might be a logic glitch where it assumes that having a usb "device" plugged in means that the phone needs to supply the power rather than receive it.
Does your car radio really not have bluetooth?
And since you are in a car, how about a Qi charger pad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunaetly it doesnt have bluetooth and since I use the phone for navigation while driveing the Qi charger woldnt really serve a purpose.

Is there a difference between the technology in a pixel 4a5g and the Pixel 6 pro. A device like the first picture I showed works fine in the pixel 4a5g but only does audio and no charging for the Pixel 6 pro

Fladnag99 said:
Is there a difference between the technology in a pixel 4a5g and the Pixel 6 pro. A device like the first picture I showed works fine in the pixel 4a5g but only does audio and no charging for the Pixel 6 pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jup, it's called Tensor.

Fladnag99 said:
Unfortunaetly it doesnt have bluetooth and since I use the phone for navigation while driveing the Qi charger woldnt really serve a purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use a magnetic Qi charger on my dashboard. It works great and provide plenty of power to charge under heavy use. Not as elegant as a proper split USB adapter, but should at least work if you can't find one.

96carboard said:
Might be a logic glitch where it assumes that having a usb "device" plugged in means that the phone needs to supply the power rather than receive it.
Does your car radio really not have bluetooth?
And since you are in a car, how about a Qi charger pad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would he want to use Bluetooth? There's still reason not to. Not many car stereos support the higher quality Bluetooth streaming codecs. Not even AAC, I know mine doesn't. SBC is very unusable.

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Why would he want to use Bluetooth? There's still reason not to. Not many car stereos support the higher quality Bluetooth streaming codecs. Not even AAC, I know mine doesn't. SBC is very unusable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't wait to find a car with audiophile speakers to make a difference

Izy said:
Can't wait to find a car with audiophile speakers to make a difference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I drive a Toyota Corolla it doesn't have audiophile speakers and I can tell the difference it is night and day even when streaming Amazon music although it's less of a difference there but if you're listening to compressed music on YouTube music there is a difference maybe you should go get your hearing checked

i mean youtube music starts at 48kbps aac to 256kbps
amazon songs start at up to 867kbps and over 3k kbps peak for premium
unironically searched it up someone made a patch that enables SBC to go up to its maximum bitrate of 512kb
stereo that makes it onpar/better with aptx and works sending to older devices like car stereos
he even pushed it to google 2 years ago buts its still processing
Android Patch Brings Bluetooth SBC Codec Audio Quality on-par with aptX - CNX Software
Android patch improves Bluetooth SBC codec audio quality on all existing devices, allegedly making it as good as the high quality aptX HD codec
www.cnx-software.com
https://android-review.googlesource.com/c/platform/packages/apps/Bluetooth/+/759258/1
its in custom roms like RR etc shame its not implemented in stock still

You should look into a Bluetooth DAC. Yes it's another thing to charge but for me it's the best of both worlds, quality wired sound yet not tethered to the phone or whatever device. I have a FiiO BTR3K. It's super small, I connect it to a belt loop, and it's got 10 hours of battery life. And yes, you could wire charge your phone while listening.
FiiO BTR3K Hi-Res Bluetooth 5.0 Receiver/Headphone Amp
Amazon.com

Izy said:
i mean youtube music starts at 48kbps aac to 256kbps
amazon songs start at up to 867kbps and over 3k kbps peak for premium
unironically searched it up someone made a patch that enables SBC to go up to its maximum bitrate of 512kb
stereo that makes it onpar/better with aptx and works sending to older devices like car stereos
he even pushed it to google 2 years ago buts its still processing
Android Patch Brings Bluetooth SBC Codec Audio Quality on-par with aptX - CNX Software
Android patch improves Bluetooth SBC codec audio quality on all existing devices, allegedly making it as good as the high quality aptX HD codec
www.cnx-software.com
https://android-review.googlesource.com/c/platform/packages/apps/Bluetooth/+/759258/1
its in custom roms like RR etc shame its not implemented in stock still
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel like there will still be some degradation in the signal because it is still transcoding a lossy codec to another lossy codec. It's something I'll try when I'm connected to my home stereo.

Fladnag99 said:
Has anyone managed to find a USB C to 3.5mm Headphone and Charger Adapter 2in1 for the Pixel 6 Pro. The few I have tried so far only at best will work the audio port but none will charge. Hoping to find one that does both for when driving to be able to charge and listen to music with the 3,5 mm headphone attached to my car radio input. Adapters similar to the attached images that work would be ideal.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use this and it works great.
Amazon.com

FoneWatcher said:
I use this and it works great.
Amazon.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you saying this worked great for the new Pixel 6 and Pixel 6 Pro's?

Anyone who tells you they can tell the difference between bluetooth and {insert whateverthefeckhere} when competing with engine, road, and wind noise is absolutely full of sh**. Your ears are not that sensitive.

Fladnag99 said:
since I use the phone for navigation while driveing the Qi charger woldnt really serve a purpose
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand this logic. The phone doesn't turn off when you use Qi. It still works. If its about how the phone is mounted, either buy a holder with a Qi pad in it, or stick a Qi pad at the back of the holder.

96carboard said:
Anyone who tells you they can tell the difference between bluetooth and {insert whateverthefeckhere} when competing with engine, road, and wind noise is absolutely full of sh**. Your ears are not that sensitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go get your hearing checked then because there is a difference. It's less of a difference when using tidal or Amazon music but when using YouTube music or Spotify etc it's staggering.

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Go get your hearing checked then because there is a difference. It's less of a difference when using tidal or Amazon music but when using YouTube music or Spotify etc it's staggering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My hearing is perfect. Yours is not as acute as you believe it to be.