Related
(can't post links still)
youtube[dot]com/watch?v=gymA26jqtTQ
It's really the only thing that's stopping me from buying the Galaxy Nexus. In my opinion the Galaxy Nexus can't take video if that's what it's producing. Anyone here a photography master of sorts that can shed some light on this issue?
Through my research I've found that the jello effect caused by a rolling shutter can be fixed in post production, but is something like this fixable via software/firmware on the phone?
What's going on? It's a bit shocking that nobody is concerned about this issue.
are you serious? "what's going on?"
it's quite obviously image stabilisation.
The sensor basically just relays data, OMAP camera hardware interface process it (stabilisation etc...) and Android presents, maybe tweaks it a bit and saves it.
So an eventual "fix" would be in OMAP firmware, not Android right?
Sent from my V9 using XDA App
saster2 said:
The sensor basically just relays data, OMAP camera hardware interface process it (stabilisation etc...) and Android presents, maybe tweaks it a bit and saves it.
So an eventual "fix" would be in OMAP, not Android right?
Sent from my V9 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know, but there is an option in Google Talk to change image stabilisation effect.
I have the same thing,but I think that it is image stabilization.
I've just replicated this issue and must say.. I'm totally not bothered! The image stabilisation is actually pretty good and the ony time i can make it do this is if I jiggle the camera... unless youre planning on trying to mock up an earthquake effect, I dont see this being an action you would do. In fact, due to the good image stabilisation, its pretty hard to do this jiggle accidentally, you must be quite determined to create this "jelly" effect (I'm in the UK, hence I get a jelly effect, not jello )
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091124183445AA8XEj5
If you don't want to read, its because it uses a CMOS sensor. Affects cell phones and DSLRs alike. Hardware related.
oscillik said:
are you serious? "what's going on?"
it's quite obviously image stabilisation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I ask what makes you so sure?
The video effect shown in the original post and in others if you look, mirrors exactly that of the "jello effect" caused by a rolling shutter, i.e. the sensor, more importantly, CMOS sensors. From what I've found: all cameras, even professional DSLR's have this "jello effect" caused by rolling shutters on CMOS sensors. The only, and most common fix I've found is to edit the video in post production.
It's not quite obviously image stabilization considering how this issue is reproduced in the exact same scenario a rolling shutter w/ CMOS sensor would to create the jello effect. Otherwise the issue would occur all the time and not only when panning quickly. The video below should explain.
youtube[dot]com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ITkLwVgxo98#t=61s
This may not be the best example, but it should show you what I am talking about. Others like this can be found by doing a simple Google or YouTube search.
The problem is oscillik is both a) incorrect, and b) an asshole. A dangerous combination to be sure!
couchapple said:
The problem is oscillik is both a) incorrect, and b) an asshole. A dangerous combination to be sure!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, funny stuff.
I know what rolling shutter effect on CMOS based cameras is. This looks more excessive than rolling shutter, and looks more like image stabilisation.
People really need to stop thinking that SmartPhones are the end all be all. Unless a phone is specifically dedicated for a camera as it's main feature, then of course people should be concerned.
People here really plan on shooting lots of hd video with their phone? If quality really matters a dedicated camera would be better served...from what I can see this is pretty trivial. Then again, the only thing I take video of is dyno runs and fun in bed...
Again not hardware involved!!!
I`m N00B in this forum but i was being for a 4 months downloading roms, from here, so hi everybody....
for this treati have a reply: ITS NOT THE CAMERA ROLLING SHUTTER, ACTUALLY IS THE CAMERA APP!!!!
from the same channel, the same guy, the same galaxy nexus, but different app:
www(dot)youtube(DOT)com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=SFSLnjqIssY
A WAY BETTER...
i saw the noob video, here in xda you have a great group of trollz,
Roxxer_x46 said:
I`m N00B in this forum but i was being for a 4 months downloading roms, from here, so hi everybody....
for this treati have a reply: ITS NOT THE CAMERA ROLLING SHUTTER, ACTUALLY IS THE CAMERA APP!!!!
from the same channel, the same guy, the same galaxy nexus, but different app:
www(dot)youtube(DOT)com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=SFSLnjqIssY
A WAY BETTER...
i saw the noob video, here in xda you have a great group of trollz,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! Glad to see this fixed, and nice find by the way. An update to the default camera app will come I'm sure. Until then this essentially fixed the problem, whatever it was, if image stabilization, I stand corrected.
it is image stabilisation, as has been proven by the fact that using another application gets rid of it.
Roxxer_x46 said:
I`m N00B in this forum but i was being for a 4 months downloading roms, from here, so hi everybody....
for this treati have a reply: ITS NOT THE CAMERA ROLLING SHUTTER, ACTUALLY IS THE CAMERA APP!!!!
from the same channel, the same guy, the same galaxy nexus, but different app:
www(dot)youtube(DOT)com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=SFSLnjqIssY
A WAY BETTER...
i saw the noob video, here in xda you have a great group of trollz,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would be nice if this comparison could be done using the software mentioned above...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyRxJ5zKSO8&sns=em
Sent from my V9 using XDA App
Here's a 1080p video I took at a Football stadium. Big game, I luckily shot the only goal at Arsenal Vs Man City on Tuesday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxsdD7iPpnM&feature=g-all
I tried using the LGCamera app mentioned in the YouTube post but it crashes on launch. Has anyone else had any luck?
GSM version running 4.01.
I use 720p because of the 30fps. 1080p is 24fps on the Gnex.
No thanks to 24fps.
That explains why image stabilization is having a hard time at stabilizing the image at that resolution at the frame rate.
I think image stabilization works best at higher frame rates.
My two cents.
Having said that, I do feel rolling shutter is a underrated issue with smart phones and point and shot. I would much rather have 720p without rolling shutter than 1080p with in.
I think post processing like deshaker is some cool stuff too. There are some really cool videos on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaPNf2Rk4qQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX2v73SOqMk
If they could do deshaking in realtime and eliminate rolling shutting... That would be cool. Some day.
Sorry - I ran a couple of searches and skimmed a half dozen pages in each of the sub-sections - so apologies if I didn't find something obvious...
I like the Glide, have rooted it successfully and am more or less happy with it but for a couple of things. First, the camera doesn't seem as sharp as my Sony Xperia Ray, which is also an 8 mp and not even as good as the 5 mp on the Behold II. I have several camera apps, so I'll try out some of them - could be operator error, I guess. I do use auto settings most of the time - is there something I could set manually to see if that helps?
Also, the audio volume on calls seems fine but not so great on audio books or video files. Even with headphones. Are there any options - media players that can take it to 11 or maybe custom roms that might help?
Finally, it's been forever since I've had an AT&T phone - is there a list of safe to freeze/uninstall programs? I'd rather not flash a custom rom right unless I have to, since this is my main phone but I'd like to get the AT&T specific stuff out, since I'm using Straight Talk.
Thanks!
terryowen said:
Sorry - I ran a couple of searches and skimmed a half dozen pages in each of the sub-sections - so apologies if I didn't find something obvious...
I like the Glide, have rooted it successfully and am more or less happy with it but for a couple of things. First, the camera doesn't seem as sharp as my Sony Xperia Ray, which is also an 8 mp and not even as good as the 5 mp on the Behold II. I have several camera apps, so I'll try out some of them - could be operator error, I guess. I do use auto settings most of the time - is there something I could set manually to see if that helps?
Also, the audio volume on calls seems fine but not so great on audio books or video files. Even with headphones. Are there any options - media players that can take it to 11 or maybe custom roms that might help?
Finally, it's been forever since I've had an AT&T phone - is there a list of safe to freeze/uninstall programs? I'd rather not flash a custom rom right unless I have to, since this is my main phone but I'd like to get the AT&T specific stuff out, since I'm using Straight Talk.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Numbered for ease of reading
1. Megapixels do not indicate image quality. It simply means how big you can blow up an image without sacrificing clarity. There's a lot of factors that play into image quality, such as the sensor, f stop, aperture, lighting, etc. And yes, I've seen lower MP cameras produce better pictures than higher MP cameras. I suggest you research more on what makes a camera tick if you still have questions, or feel free to post here. Try messing around with the settings, if that helps... But don't expect crap pictures to look amazing with the flick of a setting.
2. Try any of the equalizers you can find online. Most people seem to like Beats, Volume+. There are many to choose from, including the ones already built into some players, such as the stock player. I personally like the DSP manager included with CM roms. It has a good amount of options, and can make even the worst headphones sound halfway decent.
3. Consult this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22110205&postcount=131
found from the bottom of this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1621350
Read through that thread, as it's a great place to start if you're new to this device.
4. Welcome to the Glide
gtmaster303 said:
Numbered for ease of reading
1. Megapixels do not indicate image quality. It simply means how big you can blow up an image without sacrificing clarity. There's a lot of factors that play into image quality, such as the sensor, f stop, aperture, lighting, etc. And yes, I've seen lower MP cameras produce better pictures than higher MP cameras. I suggest you research more on what makes a camera tick if you still have questions, or feel free to post here. Try messing around with the settings, if that helps... But don't expect crap pictures to look amazing with the flick of a setting.
2. Try any of the equalizers you can find online. Most people seem to like Beats, Volume+. There are many to choose from, including the ones already built into some players, such as the stock player. I personally like the DSP manager included with CM roms. It has a good amount of options, and can make even the worst headphones sound halfway decent.
3. Consult this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22110205&postcount=131
found from the bottom of this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1621350
Read through that thread, as it's a great place to start if you're new to this device.
4. Welcome to the Glide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also numbering - for consistency...
1. Are you saying the Glide has a crap camera? I thought it was the same as the S2 and on gsmarena, the samples look better than the Ray. I guess I assumed that Samsung would have improved the camera between the 5 and 8 mp - but the Glide output seems very noisy when I look at the pictures on my PC. I care quite a lot about the camera quality and I know from past phones that software updates can often make a huge difference.
2. Thanks for the tips. Hopefully that will help the audio but you seem to infer that system wide (like for video) I need an updated rom?
3. Saw that post (searched for bloatware but only read the posts that seemed specific) and it links to a post about a deodexed rom zip file.
4. Thanks!
I hope I didn't sound too negative - I do like the Usb OTG and having a keyboard again. And I think the Glide meets the Mobile Ubuntu basic specs, so that might be interesting, too. I can even deal with the sound quality but the camera... well, we'll see, I guess.
I did buy Volume+ and it made a huge difference. Not with every video player but enough to make it worthwhile.
terryowen said:
Also numbering - for consistency...
1. Are you saying the Glide has a crap camera? I thought it was the same as the S2 and on gsmarena, the samples look better than the Ray. I guess I assumed that Samsung would have improved the camera between the 5 and 8 mp - but the Glide output seems very noisy when I look at the pictures on my PC. I care quite a lot about the camera quality and I know from past phones that software updates can often make a huge difference.
2. Thanks for the tips. Hopefully that will help the audio but you seem to infer that system wide (like for video) I need an updated rom?
3. Saw that post (searched for bloatware but only read the posts that seemed specific) and it links to a post about a deodexed rom zip file.
4. Thanks!
I hope I didn't sound too negative - I do like the Usb OTG and having a keyboard again. And I think the Glide meets the Mobile Ubuntu basic specs, so that might be interesting, too. I can even deal with the sound quality but the camera... well, we'll see, I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The captivate glide has a solid camera. Not the best, but also not the worst. Best camera phone I've had was my old MyTouch 4G Slide. It took better pictures than a GS3, and just about any other phone out there (on par with an iPhone 5). If you're rooted, just back up your phone and start deleting stuff. If it affects your daily routine, or you need something back, you can always restore. Either that or try a custom rom. But you can safely remove all the ATT branded apps, in addition to some other apps preinstalled. If you see what comes on an AOSP rom, you will get a better idea of what's necessary and what isn't.
terryowen said:
I did buy Volume+ and it made a huge difference. Not with every video player but enough to make it worthwhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome :good:
I'm glad that worked out for you
Captivate Glide was built for businessmen, so you can't ask for a good camera or voice quality as the physical keyboard takes alot of spaces, but they are not crap, you can tweak the images with pixlr or line camera, worth a try
tienlp said:
Captivate Glide was built for businessmen, so you can't ask for a good camera or voice quality as the physical keyboard takes alot of spaces, but they are not crap, you can tweak the images with pixlr or line camera, worth a try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur, the call quality is surprisingly bad. Voices sound muffled overall
I used to think that glide has a crap camera and i tried various camera apps to have an improvement. Some xda users just let me focus on how to use it correctly and they suggested me to simply use the stock camera app being careful and focusing on staying stable and use the focus function (it is to say, tapping on the screen to make the frame get green).
I have to say that after a few tries it actually worked. I used to think that camera was poor but i can get very good pics now, and they're good when i download them on pc as well. It's all up to you and your stillness in taking the photo.
Hope it helps.
gtmaster303 said:
I concur, the call quality is surprisingly bad. Voices sound muffled overall
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange, my calling sound is normal, maybe this is because of the firmware or the network
After a month or so with the Glide, I've compensated for some of the problems with the Volume+ and Wake Lock, which keeps it from dying at times, especially overnight and draining the battery. I still have issues with staying connected to wifi, which the various keep-alive programs I've downloaded so far haven't helped much (miss having a radio, internet radio with wifi issues isn't fun).
The camera seems to be helped a lot when I use the various scene modes, which I rarely used on other phones (other than macro). Not sure why the automatic is so awful but if I pick the right scene, things turn out much better. I already owned Pro HDR Camera, so when it took better pictures than the automatic I knew it was possible, at least.
The Glide was always going to be an interim phone, unless the Ubuntu thing works out, so I'm okay with it now that things are stabilized. It doesn't say much for Samsung's quality that there are so many issues, but with the keyboard being practically extinct, they have a built-in market.
I've been very disappointed with the video recording on the m9. M7 was great. M8 was fine bit not quite as good as the M7 but the m9 is terrible. Exposure changes from shadow to sun are far too extreme and change far too easily and seems far too unstable. Detail isn't as clear too.
I found that dropping the contrast by a notch has improved things a bit though.
Anyway, the thing that's puzzling me is that I noticed something today. When you switch from normal 1080p to 60fps it seems a much wider angle on the video and the detail is better. It's as if normal 1080p is zoomed in a bit, which I suppose, would account for loss of detail. I'm not too technically minded but surely this shouldn't be the case.
Can any of you lovely people check that theirs does the same and I'm not going mad?
Thanks in advance.
Sent from my HTC One M9
using XDA Free mobile app
What ROM are you running? What firmware do you have? On 1.32 the camera was a bit crap with over exposure but since the 1.40 update its been improved.
You can edit settings to get the most out of the sensor which in all fairness is superb once you've edited the settings.
sjred_uk said:
I've been very disappointed with the video recording on the m9. M7 was great. M8 was fine bit not quite as good as the M7 but the m9 is terrible. Exposure changes from shadow to sun are far too extreme and change far too easily and seems far too unstable. Detail isn't as clear too.
I found that dropping the contrast by a notch has improved things a bit though.
Anyway, the thing that's puzzling me is that I noticed something today. When you switch from normal 1080p to 60fps it seems a much wider angle on the video and the detail is better. It's as if normal 1080p is zoomed in a bit, which I suppose, would account for loss of detail. I'm not too technically minded but surely this shouldn't be the case.
Can any of you lovely people check that theirs does the same and I'm not going mad?
Thanks in advance.
Sent from my HTC One M9
using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's cause 60fps is 4k recording.
Sent from my 0PJA2 using XDA Free mobile app
Hello!
Yesterday I flashed CyanogenMod on my G4 H815 and just before the phone rebooted, I realized that I won't have the mega-awesome Camera app from LG. So does anyone know if there is any apk or any way to get it? To mention, I didn't backup my device because... because.
Thank you!
Probably won't work even if you get the apk, since most OEM specific apps need OEM specific framework to run. I think the only way to have it working on CM would be to port it. But why would you want that anyway? The image quality won't really change. It's not that much dependant on the app but rather the drivers running the camera.
nitrous² said:
Probably won't work even if you get the apk, since most OEM specific apps need OEM specific framework to run. I think the only way to have it working on CM would be to port it. But why would you want that anyway? The image quality won't really change. It's not that much dependant on the app but rather the drivers running the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not necessary the image quality, but the flexibility you have with that app (manual focus, iso, exposure time, etc.). I hope there is a way to use that app. While I was searching for it I found that there is the G4 Camera app ported for G3, so I am thinking that there could be the original app somewhere..
Thanks!
It's not possible right now. There have been efforts to port it, but nothing has come out of it yet. There are however other apps that are pretty good. And the CM stock camera app only misses the HDR and Manual settings. The quality otherwise is similar
xdag4 said:
It's not possible right now. There have been efforts to port it, but nothing has come out of it yet. There are however other apps that are pretty good. And the CM stock camera app only misses the HDR and Manual settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are 3rd party apps that should work for manual setting but your max shutter won't exceed 0.7s. This is the already the case with the stock firmware and 3rd party camera apps.
There is something called night shot which the G4 resorts to very often especially with the front camera. that will be gone. Selfies ain't going to be as good. it's also used for the rear in lower light. Though a longer exposure will produce better images. night shot is a convenience when you don't want to set up on a tripod.
The quality otherwise is similar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you tell ?
it requires a side by side in full resolution with 2 G4's one with stock & CM under varying lighting. Lots of comparisons like that.
How good is the Cm camera in auto ? that's one of the strengths of the stock G4 camera.
Does the Cm camera make use of the colour sensor at all.
Except for the 30s exposure there is nothing special about that app, just use Proshot and you will be far better, cancel noise reduction make dngs and you have better shots
One Twelve said:
How can you tell ?
it requires a side by side in full resolution with 2 G4's one with stock & CM under varying lighting. Lots of comparisons like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell because I have seen photos from both cameras (on the computer). And if you really need 2 separate G4s under the same conditions side by side to tell the difference then there is not much difference. It's the audio bitrate debate all over again.
I am not saying it's as good as with stock but similar in most situations. I miss the HDR feature because it helps in low light situations.
One Twelve said:
I can tell because I have seen photos from both cameras (on the computer).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you post links to examples of photos taken with cm camera ?
saw a few in the g4 community but the max resolution was just 2.4MP, need to be full resolution.
The low light shots on auto were crap. The G4 is a low light shooter in stock auto.
And if you really need 2 separate G4s under the same conditions side by side to tell the difference then there is not much difference. It's the audio bitrate debate all over again.
I am not saying it's as good as with stock but similar in most situations. I miss the HDR feature because it helps in low light situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such are the requirements for a clinching argument. otherwise its based on faith.
if people want to go down this route they need to know what they will be losing.
---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
ObiDanKenobi said:
Except for the 30s exposure there is nothing special about that app, just use Proshot and you will be far better, cancel noise reduction make dngs and you have better shots
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh, anything from 0.5s UP TO 30s isn't possible.
I would be very sceptical about replacing stock with cm camera until i see plenty of examples with cm.
Also bear in mind that vendors keep a very tight lock on their cameras and don't share much with 3rd parties. yeah you can use a 3rd party app in some circumstances but you can never replace the stock camera in all situations. This stock cmaera that can challenge the likes of smasung and is touted as a major selling point of the G4. Yeah, i say its pretty special.
Which is a requirement to any one considering the CM path.
What i'm reading here is if you want CM then you don't care too much about the camera to begin with. That would not surprise me as people that are good with roms don't tend to be very good with camera and vice versa. it's rare to find both those skill sets in people.
Hi,
I have read the reviews of LG G4 camera and particularly OIS videos comparison. I came across the jerky videos issue with LG G4 OIS. Also checked this link (http://forum.xda-developers.com/g4/general/lg-g4-bad-ois-t3103334)
I Want to know that does G4 really has some issue with OIS? How's the videos quality with OIS?
If you're walking it's very bad, if you stay steady it helps, so don't walk while recording...
No problems here, recordings seem pretty smooth on both 1080P and 4K while walking
Not sure what's up on his end.
Yup, no problem here too, everything is superb
If you walk like you don't care it will be bad as it tries to compensate too much movement. I walk while filming but try to dump the move with my feet a bit flexed and it works ok for me
Sent from my H815 using Tapatalk
OIS in video sucks anyway, it makes the pictures distorted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acUEAUx4WJI
Edit : the G4's OIS instead of helping stabilize video it even adds some jerky, stoopid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7YomVQb4Vo
The best for pictures, but the worst for video.
Can confirm that the OIS is not good while walking, strange movement that does not look good.
OIS in such a small device is not a 3000$ shoulder mounted gimbal rig, so having jerky video while moving is normal. Plus it is a sign, that it is working.
If you want to disable OIS while shooting a video just get ProShot (you can also disable noise reduction).
Great app. You actually disable it even while shooting the video, really cool feature. Works only in the app.
davebugyi said:
OIS in such a small device is not a 3000$ shoulder mounted gimbal rig, so having jerky video while moving is normal. Plus it is a sign, that it is working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, but the 6s + OIS works way better while walking.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks a lot for your opinions.
Actually I was comparing the OIS quality of G4 with other phones and I was wandering that why this phone results in lots of jerks while other (like S6) don't. The reviews I have seen on youtube were uploaded back in 2015 and I was thinking that if this OIS issue is a software issue then it should have been fixed by now.
So that's why I just wanted to get the real opinion that is it really an issue (a hardware one) or has it been fixed now (if it was a software bug)? Or if its still the same then can we say that S6 OIS produces much better stable videos then G4?
BrandonSingh said:
No problems here, recordings seem pretty smooth on both 1080P and 4K while walking
Not sure what's up on his end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you post any sample please
NeoDJW said:
Yup, no problem here too, everything is superb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you post any sample please
They lied or they have new LG G4's special new brand..., or they don't know how to watch a video, I told the OIS helps a lot if you tried to stay steady like for taking a pictures, even if you shoot a video but keep steady, but once you make a little big movement faster it starts to be very bad, the OIS move so much that it adds some distortion which make the video so much more jerky than phone which does not have OIS, so the LG G4's OIS is very bad while walking...
I think sample videos would help more, both from those who are claiming that its good and from those who are saying that its not.
WAQ28 said:
I think sample videos would help more, both from those who are claiming that its good and from those who are saying that its not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but the problem is that there's no samples with good, because the OIS is not good, simple as it... ^^, Nevertherless, I've never seen a good one.
DoKaTSuYa said:
I agree, but the problem is that there's no samples with good, because the OIS is not good, simple as it... ^^, Nevertherless, I've never seen a good one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I have seen some mix response on this. Some videos are good and some are not. So may be there is an issue with particular models or firmware version.
Which model are you using and what is the firmware/OS version?
WAQ28 said:
Well I have seen some mix response on this. Some videos are good and some are not. So may be there is an issue with particular models or firmware version.
Which model are you using and what is the firmware/OS version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm no, where's the good ones ? don't talk **** please.
DoKaTSuYa said:
Hm no, where's the good ones ? don't talk **** please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which model are you using and what is the firmware/OS version? And for how long you have been using this phone?
Anna87 said:
Can confirm that the OIS is not good while walking, strange movement that does not look good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which model are you using and what is the firmware/OS version?