Develop Bugs

It's official: Silverlight, XNA, 'clean break'

"For us, the cost of going from good to great is a clean break from the past. To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ckindel/archi...e-new-windows-phone-developer-experience.aspx
He also specifically mentions developers in it for learning and fun. I have to think they'll embrace free apps and not charge a dev $99 to submit an app if it's going to be free.
Another softie's blog post on the topic... http://www.artificialignorance.net/...ne-7-series-developers-developers-developers/

Yupe, and all WM5.x, WM6.x applications will NOT run on WP7:
To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series.
Well, this is just a NEW mobile OS, it is not an upgrade / update of current WM, this kinda expected.

From the article:
ckindle article said:
We took the feedback we gathered from developers, looked at the full potential of Windows Phone 7 Series and landed on 3 basic goals for the platform we’re delivering;
1. Enable end users to be able to personalize their phone experience through a large library of innovative, compelling, games and applications.
2. Enable developers to profit.
3. Advance the “3 screen plus cloud” vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
I hope a "launcher" like still possible? Microsoft mentioned that we can put app as a tile in the start screen. I am wondering if that app would be some kind of app launcher ... icons grid
ckindle article said:
When we talk with developers we hear them talk about three different “currencies”: making money, learning, and recognition. Some developers are in it for the money. They are either literally being paid to write code or they are writing code with the hope it will generate coin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could mean professional mobile developer who earn and make money for living developing mobile applications.
Give them free tools! free submission charge! That would certainly be more attractive.
ckindle article said:
Other developers tell us they are interested in advancing their knowledge – love of the game. They love learning about computers, programming, games, social connections, etc… So they build software to learn. They profit by being smarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this mean "hobbyist" aka XDA dev?
ckindle article said:
Other developers are clearly motivated by pride. Maybe there’s a bit of money and learning involved, but to these developers being noticed or recognized as doing wickedly epic sh*t is top of the list for how they measure profit.
We think all three “currencies” are valid and important and we are explicitly trying to build the platform and developer experience to support “profit” in each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or this?

From what I'm reading MS is actually listening to all of us and I think that is a damn good thing.

gogol said:
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?

RAMMANN said:
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more than an app.
@gogol Tiles can also be shortcuts. But I doubt that one tile can link to multiple apps.

seed_al said:
It's much more than an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what Morbid Shell is. But by definition it's an app. You download it from Marketplace or somewhere and install the cab. Sense is not a cab but part of the ROM and you can say part of the OS. That's the difference as I see it.

Catalyst
WP7 is the catalyst that is getting me back into school to learn code. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but with the possibilities unfolding in the mobile OS world today, I want to be apart of that. The Star Trek dream has begun.

Don't expect any Haret.exe this time around.
This has turned into the same crap Apple did, a retarded OS for retards that have no clue in anything, but like the "oh so cool" flashy menus.

I think in regards to haret we are forgetting one very important thing as we compare this to iphone
jailbreak does broaden the possibilities on the iphone so I'm not so sure this is the total end of haret

what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.

hyellow said:
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the start screen on WP7 is definitely not a plug-in of any kind. It's hardcoded to the system and as far as we have been told no one is allowed to write different UI's on top of it. Not to say that it won't be possible. It just won't be carriers and OEM's doing it.

So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.

~Johnny said:
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe so. These are still apps. MS is creating a single baseline that all developers will be able to use so the platform is uniform and easier to develop for. This will create a stable Windows Mobile experience and hopefully make it more enjoyable for noobs and vets alike without providers and manufacturers messing it up. Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.

Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that simple.

Of course
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain.

Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.

And I have no problem at all with Opera Mini, except Flash ... but for that, I use SkyFire or YouTube app.
Opera Mini would be my top app to port to WP7 ... because I doubt the new IE is good to use.
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and Opera have their own engine. They still have not even released their Android port. Opera Mobile on WP7 is not going to happen anytime soon.
Same for lots of other things that heavily rely on native code or are hard to port over.
Sorry, guys. It's just not that simple.

30,000 Apps on the Andriod Market - Where?

I read in a few places that there are now over 30,000 Andriod Apps on the Android Market, but I don't see them here: http://www.android.com/market/
By my count there are exactly 34 paid apps and 134 free apps...
Am I missing something?

Maybe they show up when browsing from your mobile

you can access from your android mobile, or use http://www.cyrket.com/m/android/

This one is also nice. Easy to search and find the apps/games you need and just Barcode Scan them to install into you phone....
http://uk.androlib.com/
/Dudeldei

I think http://www.appstorehq.com/android-apps is very good. You can download or buy the app directly from the website, from your phone.

Andaho said:
I read in a few places that there are now over 30,000 Andriod Apps on the Android Market, but I don't see them here: http://www.android.com/market/
By my count there are exactly 34 paid apps and 134 free apps...
Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android.com/market doesn't show all the apps... stupid I know
You need to use something like cyrket.com or androidlib to view all the apps on a PC.

Ha, I was wondering the same thing as the OP- will have to bookmark the links.
Just on a side note: what's the general procedure of downloading/installing apps from a PC (or for that matter on the device)?

sh500 said:
Ha, I was wondering the same thing as the OP- will have to bookmark the links.
Just on a side note: what's the general procedure of downloading/installing apps from a PC (or for that matter on the device)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you download a application to your PC, you'll have to transfer it to your phone. Either by copying it to your SD card, or by other means. You then have to install it via a file manager like Linda, ASTRO or similar.
If you use the Android Market on your phone, you just find a program, select install and voila.

Thanks for that.
Need to have the device in my hand to really find out things about it and more importantly to me, how it's done differently than on a WinMo device!

Hi,
I just found this when visiting AndroidCentral.com:
http://www.androidcentral.com/app-overload-take-control-android-market-app-brain
With the seer number of apps (30K), I think it is a very nice tool/website to filter out junk apps!
I thought it worth to share

Hi,
I was just wondering are any of the game apps as good as the Iphone. There are many good games but what I have seen so far on android some games look taccy and kind of old.
I have not searched a lot of games. But what are the best games?

I am struggling with this too.
I've become so used to the quality of design, look and function of iPhone apps and their appstore. I am keen to move to the HTC Desire shortly, but am finding it nigh on impossible to even find the spps I will require. I spend ages searching and still come oup with stuff which looks like it was written for a PC 20 years ago. And the recommended sites to browse the apps on are so ugly and full of dross, but more importantly, are unable to present the applications in a way which gives me any confidence that I will be able to satisfy my requirements using this platform.
I thought it must just be me as I am new to it (although I had none of these problems when I moved to iPhone) so asked for pointers. but I am still at a loss as to where the good, well-designed, modern, slick apps are.
I believe the Desire will give me a great comms experience out of the box, but no-one has been able to convince me that the apps I may desire to customise the device to me requirements are actually available.
Please dont think I am having a go; I am not. I am dead keen to move to this platform, but my research is not delivering results so far.
So I ask again, where is the good stuff?

XDAgeek said:
I am struggling with this too.
I've become so used to the quality of design, look and function of iPhone apps and their appstore. I am keen to move to the HTC Desire shortly, but am finding it nigh on impossible to even find the spps I will require. I spend ages searching and still come oup with stuff which looks like it was written for a PC 20 years ago. And the recommended sites to browse the apps on are so ugly and full of dross, but more importantly, are unable to present the applications in a way which gives me any confidence that I will be able to satisfy my requirements using this platform.
I thought it must just be me as I am new to it (although I had none of these problems when I moved to iPhone) so asked for pointers. but I am still at a loss as to where the good, well-designed, modern, slick apps are.
I believe the Desire will give me a great comms experience out of the box, but no-one has been able to convince me that the apps I may desire to customise the device to me requirements are actually available.
Please dont think I am having a go; I am not. I am dead keen to move to this platform, but my research is not delivering results so far.
So I ask again, where is the good stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Good stuff is in the market. To find the good stuff you need to search in the market on your phone or via cyrket.com
If you give a list of apps I'll more than hapily find ones that are as good as or better than iPhone equivalents.

I've been trying Cyrket.com but it doesnt seem to work properly for me. All I did was filter for navigation tools and it came up with a blank.

As for a list of required apps,
- Exchange Tasks (with push sync)
- Compass
- London Tube map/planner
- Tide Planner for sailing
- Office apps - Word, Spreadsheet, Powerpoint editing
- Decent dictionary/thesaurus - such as Chambers
- and some quality games with good graphics
That'll do for starters

Android really got it's start as a device platform for the more tech savvy.
Most of the first year's worth of apps were written by developers venturing into the Android app environment. As such - most were pretty rudimentary and more focused on performance (learning how to make an app work well in the Android environment) than aesthetics. Also, there were many more apps made for productivity, communication, etc and very few made for Gaming (as Gaming development is normally a LOT more involved). Finally, the G1 which for a LONG time was the only device available was so memory constricted that many custom home screen apps had difficulty running - MUCH LESS any graphically oriented game. It was a learning experience.
AND, one cannot say (as I have read many claim) that Android is just Linux on a phone so what is the big deal development wise.... I have read this forum a LOT and Android IS NOT just Linux on a phone. There are a lot of differences and a lot more restrictions with Android.
Believe it or not... The Android app scene is constantly improving. Better looking games and more polished apps are constantly coming out.
Please don't try to compare the Android apps available to the Iphone which has had over three years to improve and started out with a better device in the first place.
I really dislike the Iphone and feel it's GUI is not intuitive at all (for me). So, I never really used one at length. But, I have seen some really great games on the Iphone. However, I can definitely say - I ENVY the Iphone devs a great starter phone for development! I only wish that Google/Android had put out a really great device (not memory restricted) as a first device. It would have made it so much easier for the developers to learn and work on.
Try AppBrain.com to search for apps. That is the site I use now. They also have a companion app for the phone.

Thanks for that historical viewpoint.
The interesting thing is that I actually dont 'NEED' to add many 3rd party apps to the Desire spec in order to fill my requirements as the out-of-box experience is so good. I have over 130 apps on my iPhone, but I probably use 10 of them regularly - the rest are just a bit of fun.
At present I am just trying to assimilate what apps are available that I know I will need, and how good the quality is.
Are any of the better 3rd party apps emulating the style of the SENSE UI? That would be cool.

XDAgeek said:
As for a list of required apps,
- Exchange Tasks (with push sync)
- Compass
- London Tube map/planner
- Tide Planner for sailing
- Office apps - Word, Spreadsheet, Powerpoint editing
- Decent dictionary/thesaurus - such as Chambers
- and some quality games with good graphics
That'll do for starters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This took me 2 minutes on cyrket.com
- Exchange
Am not going to bother searching, htc sense gives exchange functions
- Compass
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.mob4.compassPro/
- Tube
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.presselite.londontube/
- Tides
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.atlantistech.android.tideapp/
- Office
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/android.androffice/
- Dictionary
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/org.freedictionary/
- Games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LEjO9DGppo
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/google-android/articles/62882.aspx

brummiesteven said:
This took me 2 minutes on cyrket.com
- Exchange
Am not going to bother searching, htc sense gives exchange functions
- Compass
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.mob4.compassPro/
- Tube
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.presselite.londontube/
- Tides
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/com.atlantistech.android.tideapp/
- Office
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/android.androffice/
- Dictionary
http://www.cyrket.com/p/android/org.freedictionary/
- Games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LEjO9DGppo
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/google-android/articles/62882.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
impressive games
why still I have a WM

Thanks for the list of apps. Some good stuff in there!
Re the Exchange on Desire, the reason I included this in my request was that all my research indicates that the Exchange implementation does not include Tasks.
I could use Moxier Mail which includes task exchange sync, but that may compromise the integration with the rest of the Sense UI, so I am looking for a good Task app with exchange sync, perhaps using WebDav.
It would be great if Tasks was included in the Sense interface as standard, but so often Tasks are omitted. Baffles me why they leave it out - same on iPhone.

[Q] Windows Desktop Programs/Games to Windows Mobile?

Took a look back for a few pages, and did a couple quick searches. Didn't quite find enough info.
I am wondering the best approach to take when converting a program to be compatible with and run on windows mobile.
I don't currently know any languages so, I would have to start learning from the beginning.
Thanks for any info

from the little I know about programming, the way an application (or games) works on windows is nothing similar to the way a program runs on windows mobile, so you would actually need to start from scratch... There are however some tools to make the job easier with older programs, like Dosbox... but I don't know if it's what you want.
The most amazing think for me is that, out os 61 views on this topic, the only person that bother to answer is NOT a developer (me)

Convert app? Impossible. With source code it is possible, if you adjust UI to fit the screen and get over some limitations and many other things.
Good is .NET on this, because if you install .NET CF on your PC, you can run apps built for winmo directly on your PC. Only issue is when it tries using other than normal libraries from GAC and tries using InterOp. That library would have to be recompiled for win32, rather wince-arm (back to 1st part). The same, the app has to be made that it is compatible with both file paths - remember that WinMo doesn't use C:\Windows but \Windows etc. And .NET CF is highly limited compared to desktop version.

Thanks for the replies.
I'm not looking for a simple way to convert programs as I'm sure it is impossible. I'm expecting to have to pretty much start from ground up.
I've seen some games such as Pocket Diablo(some others here http://www.jamesbeckingham.com.au/Default.aspx) as well as Starcraft that someone here was working on.
But I'm just wondering the best approach to do work like these guys. As there are some games I would like to bring to mobile.

These games work pretty much that people make the engine from scratch, with many hours in disassemblers, hexeditors etc they find out how does the engine load graphics from those huge files etc and they add it to their engine. Usually.

Its possible... but often more work than it is worth
OndraSter said:
These games work pretty much that people make the engine from scratch, with many hours in disassemblers, hexeditors etc they find out how does the engine load graphics from those huge files etc and they add it to their engine. Usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. The hours put in to "porting" these apps to windows mobile is often close to the work it would take to make the game from scratch. So if you are not familiar with coding, disassembling code is far outside your scope. However, when finished, these games have more of an original feel, but often work less effective. This is due to the translation of using mouse clicks to touch input. Games such as diablo rely heavily on having two mice buttons to click. A total remake would be less like the original but might compensate for the new control scheme.
Both ways are possible, but they are both also complicated and involve a great deal of work. Not to mention how unhappy blizzard is with people using their artwork, even if the game is absolutely free.

Sorry but, none of you are really being helpful..
I do not expect this to be easy. I am expecting it to be a long process, and telling me something that I already know over and over doesn't help me get started. I've already said that I expect to probably have to rebuild these from ground up..
I know what is ahead of me and want to do this stuff, other wise I wouldn't be asking.
So if anyone knows the process or at least where I could get started. Please let me know. Otherwise I'll just start with Java then C# until I find my own way into doing this.

From personal experience of porting a game ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=717274 ), it will take awhile. Here is the process I used when making the game:
1) Collect image resources if any are possible to be used.
2) Research what kind of engines to use. I made the mistake of trying to use the basic image function in C#.net, which was a waste of time. Then I switched to GDI+ and haven't had any problems since.
3) Make a list of things you want to do on the program. From the required things to the extra fancy features. Sounds are extra features.
4) Prototype A LOT. Find what you want to accomplish, break its parts down into basic actions, then prototype of how to do that action.
As a language to start with, I personally recommend C#.net because its easy to use. It doesn't have the speed of C++, but it does have the #region/ #endregion functions which have helped me ENORMOUSLY with writing code. The region code can be minimized. With 2000+ lines of code per class and about 20 classes, minimizing code makes moving around easier.
Check the XDA boards or search online if your lost. If you need more help on porting code or making functions to do specific actions, message me and I'll gladly help.

[Q] why do the apps suck...

Im not dogging android im not trying to be a negitive nancy though i know somone will still smack me for it anyway....
(first and for most I DO NOT LIKE APPLE ITS TOO MUCH OF A TRENDY CULT) but they know how to-do some stuff the right way....
why does the android market suck so much I have had the hero now the evo and have LOVED both phones more then you want to know... but i just relized what me and my ipod touch compadrays lack... every week hes like OMG NEW APPZZZ and im like barcode scanner FTW??? or robo defence ftw............
im just estaticly happy we have such a great group of devs*xda-devs* because that makes the whole experience for me at this point because the exciting apps arnt exciting any more.......
if you read nothing else read this(what i want this post to be about) Why arent new apps popping up all the time... it seems like android phone are selling faster then they can keep them on the shelves but we cant seem to get developers to provide me with happs for me to spend my money on?

I am not sure how long you have had your EVO for, but outside of the top Free Apps, there are a few apps of interest, but it really is dependent on you. I will give you a list of what I use and why.
ADB Wireless - Needs no explanation.
Air Control Light - One of the best time wasters and is really addictive.
Album Art Grabber - gets all of your missing album art (Paid for)
Android Mate - a simple way for removal of apps you don't want w/o using ADB
Astro File Manager - have been using this one since G1. Its a good choice between that or ES File manager. (Paid for)
Better Cut - for individual shortcuts and main screen Icons.
Call Block - Needs no explanation.
Carr Matey - Great when your in a huge parking lot to help remember where you left your car.
Chrome to Phone- easy way to send Links/numbers/addresses from your desktop to your phone.
Dialer One- Great dialer replacement. I actually prefer the dialer in CM6 but it is not Sense compatible.
Documents To Go - Great to view Word/Excel and other M$ Docs as well as PDFs (Paid for)
Lets Golf - Great Game (Paid for)
Pandora - A must have. Is more valuable than a FM Radio App.
PhoneMyPC - Great for controlling my PC while I am not home. I can pull up documents on my PC and email them to myself, or turn stuff on, monitor my appt with my web cam and so on.
Solitare - Best game in the world
Robo Defense - Great Time waster
Truphone - VoiP Wifi to Wifi for speaking to my kids in Germany. Free!
Trillian- best IM program ever.
You really have to be in "need" of a program before someone actually designs one to fill that need. So basically your statement is why is there not cool programs. Name some of the programs you want/need, and then someone will tell you what might work for you. Also remember that Apple has 1-2 years on Android, and due to the fact that they only have to program for 1 phone basically, it is a lot simpler not needing to be compatible with 15 different phones.

I have to somewhat agree with you. I came from an iPhone and bought the EVO without even touching an android running phone before. While I do love android - most apps really, really, suck. You just have to find the apps that aren't complete **** - look at it as an adventure.
Thanks for the list above, too.
Oh, and in all my experances of freelance computer work...Overall, Java just sucks.

There's definitely some better apps on iPhone.. I miss my Mafia wars app, haha.. I'd much rather have android though.
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using XDA app.

Its what your used to. Everyone talks up the iphone apps and they certainly have the most popular ones (biggest market) but I soo prefer android over apple.
My current phone game is alchemy (not available on iphone)

thanks guys
I dont really have any particual needs my "needs" are PEGGLE and apparently zombies vs plants is also an awesome game.... they need to make an idiot proof music loading platform that will also assist me in finding games..... i just get soo sad when i see apps in the iphone/pad/touch marketplace that kicks ass,
I REALLY apreciate the list of games.... i downloaded some stuff off that list and am about to get my game on when i stop writing it....... ok I thought of my one and only true need::::​
Castle Crashers Android
​

Hrshycro said:
Oh, and in all my experances of freelance computer work...Overall, Java just sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This statement just pisses me off. Java is a powerful cross platform language. I will take it as "like just your opinion man" and move on.

jkinnison90 said:
There's definitely some better apps on iPhone.. I miss my Mafia wars app, haha.. I'd much rather have android though.
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using XDA app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..but there is a Mafia Wars app in the market.

rulermon said:
I dont really have any particual needs my "needs" are PEGGLE and apparently zombies vs plants is also an awesome game.... they need to make an idiot proof music loading platform that will also assist me in finding games..... i just get soo sad when i see apps in the iphone/pad/touch marketplace that kicks ass,
I REALLY apreciate the list of games.... i downloaded some stuff off that list and am about to get my game on when i stop writing it....... ok I thought of my one and only true need::::​
Castle Crashers Android
​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is pay 10 bucks easily for cc on android. I don't think I've ever put as many grind hours into a game like I did cc and never will again. Best beatemup ever
All spelling errors thanks to xt9 on my Evo!

fapstick said:
This statement just pisses me off. Java is a powerful cross platform language. I will take it as "like just your opinion man" and move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Java is a powerful cross platform language, but I have to agree that I haven't seen a lot of really blow your mind apps built with it (in the UI department at least. I've seen some amazing programming feats done with it, but UI usually is lacking in Java and Android apps) I think it has a lot to do with Java not being a very nice language to use. I'm having a horrible time learning it compared to other languages I'm working on. Of course I'm a programming noob, but still, C++ is so much easier to learn than Java.
Anyways, it has a lot to do with experience. I don't think a lot of Android programmers are really experienced Java devs, so that could explain some of the lack of appeal in a lot of normal Android apps.
From my own experience, a lot of the big name devs are making some great apps now with great UI's like Nook, Gameloft Games, Tweetdeck, etc. So I think the platform is beginning to mature, but there will always be crappy apps. Personally, I don't mind UI's as long as they aren't a pain to navigate and perform the functions well. Android apps are by far much more useful than their iPhone counterparts because of all the extra access and interoperability they have. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of apps that build on other apps to get jobs done. Plus the way Android handles background tasks (unlike the iPhone with only allows about 5 different basic services to run) is amazing. There are so many useful things Android apps can do that the iPhone can't even touch when jailbroken.

fapstick said:
This statement just pisses me off. Java is a powerful cross platform language. I will take it as "like just your opinion man" and move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The platform benefit died long ago. Code for it now hardly more portable than C. It's simply rarely used that way as well as having so many branches for a particular platforms extensions. A language is only cross platform if you can actually run or build programs easilyfor multiple platforms. Dalvik really shoots that one down pretty damn fast.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

superlinkx said:
Java is a powerful cross platform language, but I have to agree that I haven't seen a lot of really blow your mind apps built with it (in the UI department at least. I've seen some amazing programming feats done with it, but UI usually is lacking in Java and Android apps) I think it has a lot to do with Java not being a very nice language to use. I'm having a horrible time learning it compared to other languages I'm working on. Of course I'm a programming noob, but still, C++ is so much easier to learn than Java.
Anyways, it has a lot to do with experience. I don't think a lot of Android programmers are really experienced Java devs, so that could explain some of the lack of appeal in a lot of normal Android apps.
From my own experience, a lot of the big name devs are making some great apps now with great UI's like Nook, Gameloft Games, Tweetdeck, etc. So I think the platform is beginning to mature, but there will always be crappy apps. Personally, I don't mind UI's as long as they aren't a pain to navigate and perform the functions well. Android apps are by far much more useful than their iPhone counterparts because of all the extra access and interoperability they have. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of apps that build on other apps to get jobs done. Plus the way Android handles background tasks (unlike the iPhone with only allows about 5 different basic services to run) is amazing. There are so many useful things Android apps can do that the iPhone can't even touch when jailbroken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my point. Thank you for typing it out. Couldn't have typed it better myself. While Java is powerful, it's buggier than all get out. Everybody I know in the info systems world also hates it. I don't care for it it's really buggy and the UI is usually outdated, confusing and doesn't look good at all - usually.
When I've ran into client's problems, it requires a complete uninstall of it or the multiple installed updates, then reinstalling the newest update, or an older update because what they want to use doesn't work with the newest java update. :| It's especially annoying when they are trying to use two different java related programs and one only works with the newest update and the other one only works with an older update - just makes me day.
I'm not programmer, but why are the apps for android programmed with java? Android is based of linux, right? Are there not other prog langs that work with linux?
Come to think of it: There's not very many products that google has made that are very aesthetically pleasing to look at or use, but they work.

Hrshycro said:
Exactly my point. Thank you for typing it out. Couldn't have typed it better myself. While Java is powerful, it's buggier than all get out. Everybody I know in the info systems world also hates it. I don't care for it it's really buggy and the UI is usually outdated, confusing and doesn't look good at all - usually.
When I've ran into client's problems, it requires a complete uninstall of it or the multiple installed updates, then reinstalling the newest update, or an older update because what they want to use doesn't work with the newest java update. :| It's especially annoying when they are trying to use two different java related programs and one only works with the newest update and the other one only works with an older update - just makes me day.
I'm not programmer, but why are the apps for android programmed with java? Android is based of linux, right? Are there not other prog langs that work with linux?
Come to think of it: There's not very many products that google has made that are very aesthetically pleasing to look at or use, but they work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can code with C or C++ if you use the NDK (Native Dev Kit). Im not sure if you can do the whole app that way or just parts but it just seems more difficult. But I learned java in a highschool class, and despite its failures, its easiest for me to use.

I definitely recommend looking for new apps using App Brain. As long as you're not strictly looking for games, I've found a lot of jewels in there I never would have found in the regular Market app.

The thing that gets me most is not the lack of apps, but the inconsistency among apps.
1. Most apps carry their own theme and UI and does not blend well with the rest of Android.
2. Software updates tend to roll out slower than the iphone counterparts.
3. Resolution of the icons in some apps are blurry looking. Again this is because of differences between the resolution available for Android phones.

xeroxsmm said:
I definitely recommend looking for new apps using App Brain. As long as you're not strictly looking for games, I've found a lot of jewels in there I never would have found in the regular Market app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would agree. There are a lot of bad apps out there but there are some really good ones I found with App Brain.
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using XDA App

I hadn't clicked on this thread yet because I totally expected some rant about something silly but I have to admit I do completely agree with the OP in that the market is not a good way to find apps. It's the place to GET apps but the "top" lists, paid and free, haven't changed much since I got my Hero last December..
I have never had an iProduct of any sort, and likely never will so I don't have any experience for comparison but I think the android apps are alright, no complaints other than FINDING them..

1. Google's Market needs upgrades, nothing major. Just add more and better ways to find applications. Sad a search giant has had difficulty getting this done.
2. Get AppBrain's application.
3. Android uses a Java flavored language, but not Java or even Java ME. This is why Oracle is foolishly suing Google.

RE #3 - I'm beginning to wonder myself whether they should have used Python or Ruby over Java.

bludragon742 said:
RE #3 - I'm beginning to wonder myself whether they should have used Python or Ruby over Java.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They aren't using java, thats what he was saying with point 3. Android uses a different language which is similar to java, but not java.
Also java > *. Java is used in phones, cars, sterio systems, tvs, gaming systems, etc..
Try to find a electronic unit where java hasn't been used in

Designing an app

I am pretty new to using Android Studio and app development, but I have to design an app for a project I am working on. Do any of you have any tips about designing just the app without having to work with all of the coding? I don't need the app to work right now, just a design.

if all your doing is designing it then you could just use paper layout how each screen looks and make flow charts to show how button and other things work and link to other places, thats kind of how we do it but in our heads usualy and then we just write the code to show it.

Bethany55 said:
I am pretty new to using Android Studio and app development, but I have to design an app for a project I am working on. Do any of you have any tips about designing just the app without having to work with all of the coding? I don't need the app to work right now, just a design.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
I have just worked in Android for more 4 years and with my opinion and experience, I think one of the most important thing is the simplicity, (but its also be hard ), I think you will work in some months to feel it. But have another way to get nice design fast, of course this way is temporally. You can refer to the same kinds of your app in store to compare it to yours, or even other apps not same kind of yours, color or design. And connect your mind to another object. Remember that the simplicity is one of the most important. Hope you will success soon.

Follow the Material Design guidelines Google has posted. It's the easiest way to make a good looking app.
Design is more about what the app does. Without know more detail, my best advice is to keep it simple. Try to find the 1 or 2 real things your app does well and makes those very easy to understand and do. Show the app to strangers and without explanation see if they can use it.