Develop Bugs

Quick question /how-to

Hi there XDA,
Definitely horrible at flashing and jazz, I have a quick question.
I had flashed JellyBeanv3 rom a while back and today I received the 4.1.2 OTA, now I'm wondering if my phone would brick if I updated.
What would the proper steps be to update? Also, would I be better off using CM10 (I hear a lot of good things about it, just don't know what's so special.)
Thanks,
-Mike

You won't brick, although you may lose root.
If you are fine with stock, then just upgrade to the OTA.
If not, then I'd upgrade to CM. They introduced the latest 4.1.2 upgrades in a matter of a couple days, so you're not lagging far behind official releases. CM includes an OTA updater so you can update to the latest nightly pretty easily.
To install CM, follow the directions at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1839882

What's "Jellybeanv3"? A custom rom?
An OTA update WILL NOT work on a custom rom.
If it's indeed custom built, I don't understand how you people are EVEN getting the update message.
If OP is on stock rom (no mods, etc) and talking about JZO54K OTA, then just run the update. If not (cwm installed, rooted+modified system files), read this thread.
About CM, do you think so many people love it just because? lol.
Try it yourself. Like reuthermonkey said, read the nightlies thread/first post, flash away.

Jellybeanv3 was a custom rom that came with awesomebeats, was pretty cool.
I decided against upgrading to ota, and went with cm10. Pretty much godlike in my opinion. The colors on this phone have never been more vibrant.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

URGENT! from 4.1.1 to 4.2.2 or 4.3

Ok so I'm curious of why I'm not able to update from 4.1.1 to 4.2.2 or 4.3. Any time I try to update, it tells me that I'm already up to date. Now I'm wanting the new CyanogenMod, I'm craving it...
When installing gapps is it a MUST to use gapps for 4.1.1 or can I use the ones from 4.2.2? I use Clock Work Recovery Premium but it's not installing google apps with it. It kind of erks me in a way...
So I'm at a complete loss... is it possible to get 4.2 or am I stuck with 4.1?
I'm running a SGH-I747.
Please hit me up asap!

Ciberious42 said:
Ok so I'm curious of why I'm not able to update from 4.1.1 to 4.2.2 or 4.3. Any time I try to update, it tells me that I'm already up to date. Now I'm wanting the new CyanogenMod, I'm craving it...
When installing gapps is it a MUST to use gapps for 4.1.1 or can I use the ones from 4.2.2? I use Clock Work Recovery Premium but it's not installing google apps with it. It kind of erks me in a way...
So I'm at a complete loss... is it possible to get 4.2 or am I stuck with 4.1?
I'm running a SGH-I747.
Please hit me up asap!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok...you are not ready to do what you are asking. Are you even rooted? If you have no idea then you need to stop because you are not even close to being ready to install custom roms. You need to do some extensive reading. Everything about installing custom roms has been covered beyond extensively on this forum and many others. XDA is not designed to hand you the answers on some quick and easy to use instructions and for good reason. You need to know what you are doing and to do that you need to search and read...a lot. If you have a specific problem that has not been addressed in these forums then we will try to help you but don't expect a step by step walkthrough to your post here.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747

This can't be real...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

May82 said:
This can't be real...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL...I am thinking the same thing. Noticed the OP only had 9 posts and figured WTH and answered.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app

Ciberious42 said:
Ok so I'm curious of why I'm not able to update from 4.1.1 to 4.2.2 or 4.3. Any time I try to update, it tells me that I'm already up to date. Now I'm wanting the new CyanogenMod, I'm craving it...
When installing gapps is it a MUST to use gapps for 4.1.1 or can I use the ones from 4.2.2? I use Clock Work Recovery Premium but it's not installing google apps with it. It kind of erks me in a way...
So I'm at a complete loss... is it possible to get 4.2 or am I stuck with 4.1?
I'm running a SGH-I747.
Please hit me up asap!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh boy.... where can I start... Welcome!! Now, The reason why you can't update to 4.1.1 to 4.3 is because currently, 4.1.1 is the latest update on your phone. But you should be able to update to 4.1.2... I am guessing you are using an AT&T Samsung Galaxy S3.
In order to get 4.2.2 (or later 4.3), your phone has to be rooted and you need to have a custom recovery (ClockworkMod or TWRP). Rooting basically enables root directories so that you can modify your phone.
Here is a place to get you started.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1739426
Keep in mind that rooting your phone WILL VOID your phone's warranty.
And take a look at this to understand more about rooting or custom recovery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1728824
Hope that helps!

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alltechinside said:
Oh boy.... where can I start... Welcome!! Now, The reason why you can't update to 4.1.1 to 4.3 is because currently, 4.1.1 is the latest update on your phone. But you should be able to update to 4.1.2... I am guessing you are using an AT&T Samsung Galaxy S3.
In order to get 4.2.2 (or later 4.3), your phone has to be rooted and you need to have a custom recovery (ClockworkMod or TWRP). Rooting basically enables root directories so that you can modify your phone.
Here is a place to get you started.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1739426
Keep in mind that rooting your phone WILL VOID your phone's warranty.
And take a look at this to understand more about rooting or custom recovery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1728824
Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK...Now for me not to sound totally like an @$$. Welcome!!! These are definitely some of the best places to start but please do not let it be the only ones you look at. Before you plunge in to root and install custom roms please read peoples experiences and issues they have had throughout the various threads. This will aid you in resolving any problems you may have during the processes you are trying and helps you get a better understanding of your phone. Please make sure that prior to trying to root, you look up information about losing and restoring of your IMEI and tripping your flash counter. As stated above, rooting will VOID your warranty so this is done at your own risk. If you follow instructions closely you should not have any major issues.

I'm sorry gentlemen, this was typed so quick I may have sounded ignorant to the "rooting world".
I know how to successfully root and install custom roms, but my question was so distorted and didn't make sense because I had just got off a 17 hour shift.
I am currently running Cyanogenmod 10 on my SGH-I747, with 4.1.1 gapps. I was having an issue installing Cyanogenmod 10.1 because my phone was 4.1.1.(why it wouldn't work) I was trying to question the fact of, is it possible to upgrade to a 4.2.2 rom and keep the latest version of Cyanogenmod?
Just hearing rumors about a 4.2.2 ROM excites me, but it being a ROM in its self, how can I run Cyanogenmod with it?
I love the feel of mod but if 4.2.2 is better, flexible and faster... I would love to have it.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Ciberious42 said:
I'm sorry gentlemen, this was typed so quick I may have sounded ignorant to the "rooting world".
I know how to successfully root and install custom roms, but my question was so distorted and didn't make sense because I had just got off a 17 hour shift.
I am currently running Cyanogenmod 10 on my SGH-I747, with 4.1.1 gapps. I was having an issue installing Cyanogenmod 10.1 because my phone was 4.1.1.(why it wouldn't work) I was trying to question the fact of, is it possible to upgrade to a 4.2.2 rom and keep the latest version of Cyanogenmod?
Just hearing rumors about a 4.2.2 ROM excites me, but it being a ROM in its self, how can I run Cyanogenmod with it?
I love the feel of mod but if 4.2.2 is better, flexible and faster... I would love to have it.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still a little confused as to what you are asking. There are several versions of Cyanogenmod. CM 10.0 is a 4.1.2 ROM. CM 10.1.2 is a 4.2.2 ROM.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747

Ciberious42 said:
I'm sorry gentlemen, this was typed so quick I may have sounded ignorant to the "rooting world".
I know how to successfully root and install custom roms, but my question was so distorted and didn't make sense because I had just got off a 17 hour shift.
I am currently running Cyanogenmod 10 on my SGH-I747, with 4.1.1 gapps. I was having an issue installing Cyanogenmod 10.1 because my phone was 4.1.1.(why it wouldn't work) I was trying to question the fact of, is it possible to upgrade to a 4.2.2 rom and keep the latest version of Cyanogenmod?
Just hearing rumors about a 4.2.2 ROM excites me, but it being a ROM in its self, how can I run Cyanogenmod with it?
I love the feel of mod but if 4.2.2 is better, flexible and faster... I would love to have it.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really understand what you are trying to say. You can't install CyanogenMod 10.1 at all? What does the error say exactly? Please be a bit more clear so I can help you out
Are you installing the wrong gapps version? If you are flashing Cm10.1 (4.2.2), you need to flash gapps 4.2.2, not gapps 4.1.1.
link: http://wiki.rootzwiki.com/Google_Apps

alltechinside said:
I don't really understand what you are trying to say. You can't install CyanogenMod 10.1 at all? What does the error say exactly? Please be a bit more clear so I can help you out
Are you installing the wrong gapps version? If you are flashing Cm10.1 (4.2.2), you need to flash gapps 4.2.2, not gapps 4.1.1.
link: http://wiki.rootzwiki.com/Google_Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That clarifies everything I needed to know...
I was trying to install 4.1.1 gapps with 10.1 cyan...
Thanks man, I have to try it out!

Getting this phone in a few days

Alright, so I am going to be getting this phone in a few days. A guy is trading me his white S3 + $120 for my HTC One. I just wanted to know a few things. 1. he had it rooted but he unrooted it and I believe he is on the latest update, how can I root it back? 2. what's the latest update name? (MK3?) 3. Can I flash 4.4 roms on the latest update? 4. What kernels can be flashed on what radio? Or does it just matter which rom? Thanks

Comet1966 said:
Alright, so I am going to be getting this phone in a few days. A guy is trading me his white S3 + $120 for my HTC One. I just wanted to know a few things. 1. he had it rooted but he unrooted it and I believe he is on the latest update, how can I root it back? 2. what's the latest update name? (MK3?) 3. Can I flash 4.4 roms on the latest update? 4. What kernels can be flashed on what radio? Or does it just matter which rom? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread will be the one you want for getting the phone rooted:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2596697
The OP, @goku2778, is very helpful and responsive.
As to your other concerns:
The latest update is MK3, which contains the Knox bootloader. However, Knox is only an issue if you try to use Odin to flash older firmware. You can flash any custom ROM you want-4.1.2, 4.3, 4.4. I highly recommend just being on the cutting edge and going with 4.4 KitKat. Carbon is phenomenal, as is CyanogenMod11. CyanFox is my other current favorite, but there is a lot of work being done by a lot of awesome devs and maintainers, so feel free to try a bunch to see what you like best! Kernels and radios are also like ROM's, in terms of you can safely flash any of the available kernels and any radio you desire to find the best ones for your personal use.
Once your phone arrives, feel free to PM me or post if you need any help or suggestions, there are a lot of helpful members cruising around on this forum!

Mr. Struck said:
This thread will be the one you want for getting the phone rooted:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2596697
The OP, @goku2778, is very helpful and responsive.
As to your other concerns:
The latest update is MK3, which contains the Knox bootloader. However, Knox is only an issue if you try to use Odin to flash older firmware. You can flash any custom ROM you want-4.1.2, 4.3, 4.4. I highly recommend just being on the cutting edge and going with 4.4 KitKat. Carbon is phenomenal, as is CyanogenMod11. CyanFox is my other current favorite, but there is a lot of work being done by a lot of awesome devs and maintainers, so feel free to try a bunch to see what you like best! Kernels and radios are also like ROM's, in terms of you can safely flash any of the available kernels and any radio you desire to find the best ones for your personal use.
Once your phone arrives, feel free to PM me or post if you need any help or suggestions, there are a lot of helpful members cruising around on this forum!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, thank you sir, big help, I will be looking forward to the devs and helpers in this forum! :good:

[Q] Should I update to KitKat 4.4.2? (MI7 Note 3)

In the hopes that this question may help others and not seeing this question being remotely asked from what i searched, Is it recommended to update to 4.4.2 KitKat or should I wait it out?
additional questions:
- is it better to flash it if i root my note 3? (MI7)
- should i root the note 3 at it's current version (4.3) and just stick to the roms currently available for it?
- most importantly, if i were to do the ota for 4.4.2 and root (with knox tripped) will i still be able to flash roms based on 4.4.2 (like cyanogenmod) without much problem?
things to know:
- I'm aware that installing the 4.4.2 update means i won't be able to revert back to 4.3.
- Mostly aware of the fact that a recovery is present for 4.4.2
- Not entirely sure if t-mobile locks their bootloaders on the new update. Some people on the forums hint that it's not locked but never really found a straight answer.
- Done a lot of forum digging but willing to search more if need be.
sincere apologies if my question sounds absurd and preposterous, however any answer is appreciated.

People have slightly mixed feelings on the update, but from what I'm seeing their mostly regretting taking the OTA or Odin flash and missing 4.3 JB. Though the new bootloader is not locked it would be better for you to just remain on 4.3 until devs can provide more support and information on the 4.4.2 official update. Besides as long as your on 4.3 you can still flash 4.4.2 roms and 4.3 roms you just need to follow instructions on the devs op. I myself opted to wait it out simply because my phone is flawless the way it is on 4.3 and there was not enough reason why 4.4.2 was a must have update, even if it was I still would have waited for the devs to do their thing first.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium

Yeah I want to upgrade because I heard they fixed the AVRCP and I use it a lot, I was so pissed that samsung botched that when the note 3 came out. Now I hear that all the music apps can send meta data now.

If you cherish tethering, do not update.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

The short answer is no, and the long answer is hell no.
TWEAKED ROM has an update that stops the over-the-air (OTA) update. It's a separate zip with the mini-update.
Purest said:
Yeah I want to upgrade because I heard they fixed the AVRCP and I use it a lot, I was so pissed that samsung botched that when the note 3 came out. Now I hear that all the music apps can send meta data now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While not exactly the same, "The More You Know...": http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/13/n...tadata-can-reveal-everything-about-your-life/

I finally took the plunge and rooted 4.3 and did the kitkat update while maintaining root so I can use the sd card write fix. My thoughts, is there is no advantage to kitkat but more disadvantages. I still get the occasional stutter and lag which rarely happened on JB so I broke even on that.
But I'm using Nova launcher and now home button does not take me to my default home screen. So I have to swipe to home screen since I have a folder in there for certain apps and games. Also the animation now just starts from the center when opening app from home screen.
The other issue is I use a samsung Gear and have it set to automatically unlock my phone when it's near it. But now I lost the ripple effect. I just get the lock icon with the 4 directional arrow around it.
There's also a slight battery drain. When I updated I didn't lose anything nor have I added any apps. Still trying to determine the cause on this one.
The worse part is I can't use foxfi anymore as it hasn't been updated to work with tmobile note3. Luckily I'm rooted so hopefully I can't find another way like Trev's wifi tethering.
If I could go back I would. I was pretty happy with JB unrooted. But I wanted to see if my signal would get better. I get an extra bar but when I go to see the signal status, it's still -115db when I'm at work.
The only thing I'm enjoying is finally I have root again which I could've done on JB. Being able to use titanium backup and LMT Pie again is awesome. I should've rooted sooner.

skullstrider said:
In the hopes that this question may help others and not seeing this question being remotely asked from what i searched, Is it recommended to update to 4.4.2 KitKat or should I wait it out?
additional questions:
- is it better to flash it if i root my note 3? (MI7)
- should i root the note 3 at it's current version (4.3) and just stick to the roms currently available for it?
- most importantly, if i were to do the ota for 4.4.2 and root (with knox tripped) will i still be able to flash roms based on 4.4.2 (like cyanogenmod) without much problem?
things to know:
- I'm aware that installing the 4.4.2 update means i won't be able to revert back to 4.3.
- Mostly aware of the fact that a recovery is present for 4.4.2
- Not entirely sure if t-mobile locks their bootloaders on the new update. Some people on the forums hint that it's not locked but never really found a straight answer.
- Done a lot of forum digging but willing to search more if need be.
sincere apologies if my question sounds absurd and preposterous, however any answer is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, for me, I feel that the KitKat update was beneficial in regards to battery life, and overall stability with ne6. The developers are obviously concentrating their efforts on the latest of updates. I recommend tweaked ROM as the features are endless, and the developer is a higher skilled one, unlike many that around. The boot loader are indeed not locked, and if you update to ne6 the latest KitKat, if you wanted you could back flash to nb4 kit kat, firmware and all, or just flash a nb4 based ROM in normal recovery, both work. Asop ROMs you will have no issue running either, as they are all unified, and are also based on KitKat.. Tethering, if you want the tethering i suggest a ROM, such as tweaked, and you will have that as well. Their are a lot of benefits man to updating, some may disagree, but their updates for a reason, stability, battery, modem, partitions, just an overall better experience. If you want a solid KitKat experience the way touch wiz should have been, with some awesome themes check out Wally's themes in the theme section and go ahead and hit me up for a tweaked alpha, or join the irc channel within dwitherells thread itself. Super helpful people. Willing to lend a hand. Good luck man.
---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
BenGentle said:
The short answer is no, and the long answer is hell no.
TWEAKED ROM has an update that stops the over-the-air (OTA) update. It's a separate zip with the mini-update.
While not exactly the same, "The More You Know...": http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/13/n...tadata-can-reveal-everything-about-your-life/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not quite sure what your talking about, but once you are rooted, and your device status is modified you automatically won't get the otas. Not just tweaked, but any ROM, including stock rooted.

It seems beneficial to you since you're using custom rom. I'm on kitkat rooted but knox has not been tripped and still "official" so I'm not gonna put custom rom and break warranty. I can still unroot.
My understanding is even if you have custom recovery you can't go back to 4.3 if your bootloader is upgraded to 4.4.
So for now my recommendation for anyone thinking of upgrading is stick to 4.3. Specially if you are running stock or just rooted.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Still running 4.3 with Embryo ROM and runs flawless!

Don't update, run an aosp 4.4.3 ROM on your 4.3 boot loader, nuff said

icenight89 said:
Don't update, run an aosp 4.4.3 ROM on your 4.3 boot loader, nuff said
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how can you do this? Im currently stock rooted 4.3 MI7 with knox 0x0. I thought you needed to update the bootloader to flash any 4.4 rom? If not, can I flash a rom using Mobile Odin Pro or safestrap or something without installing a custom recovery or kernel? Or do I pretty much have to trip knox to flash a 4.4 custom rom and keep the 4.3 bootloader?

New owner seeking advice

Hello everyone:
I am a new (used) Galaxy Note 3 owner. I bought an LG G2 3 weeks or so ago, spent that 3 weeks studying, rooting, installing recovery and finally installing and tweaking Cloudy G2 ROM. Just as I got my G2 running flawlessly it slipped from my shirt pocket as I was grilling, bounced off the grill and landed face down on the car port thus smashing the screen to pieces. :crying: What a waste of time installing that cheap screen protector the previous evening.
Anyway, I found a great deal on a used Note 3 so I went ahead and bought that rather than another G2. So now, I need to update my Note 3 just like I did the G2. Since I am running short on time at the moment I just want to get some ideas on where to start. I do intend to read everything I can on XDA but some helpful tips would really assist me with getting this finished sooner rather than later.
So....Right now the phone has stock 4.4.2 loaded and the knox counter is not tripped.
Baseband version is:N900TUVUCNB4
Security Software Version is:MDF v1.0 Release 2.
I am not at all familiar with this security stuff so any tips here on what exactly this is would be most appreciated.
My goal is:
1. root the device
2. install recovery prefer twrp but cwm will do if necessary
3. install a good ROM (Preferably Lollipop based ROM)
4. I would like to have xPosed Framework support too if possible. Of course this depends on the ROM I presume.
I have heard that Samsung Note 3 is a real bear to root. Also that the Odin software can be dangerous. I have no idea if this is true or not so please help me here.
I was also wondering whether it would be best to root the phone while on KitKat, or upgrade to stock lollipop first and then start the root/recovery process.
I'd really really appreciate all the help I can get from anyone that has owned a note 3 and has already been all through this process.
Thanks...Olin

Oh well, no replies? Man this Samsung device is rather overwhelming what with all the various scenarios. I am thinking of going with temasek's Unofficial CM12.1, or DOMPOP, or maybe Darklord. But I am still completely unsure whether to upgrade to stock Lollipop before I start on the root/recovery/ROM project. I also need to read everything I can find on these 3 roms.
But please, if you have any comments on which of these 3 ROMS is the best for the note 3 and/or comments on the best root/recovery method then by all means point me in the right direction.
Thanks so much for any help at all.

people just aren't as helpful around here as they used to be. Either that or not many use the note 3 anymore. But nevermind I figured it out anyway as I knew I eventually would.

Hey!
I'm sort of in the same boat as you..
would appreciate some feed back see this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-3-tmobile/help/nexus-4-to-note-3-questions-t3173473
Not sure if my jelly bean note is at its peak performance now.. it performs so well but i wanna upgrade for the sake of upgrading

beegbear said:
Hey!
I'm sort of in the same boat as you..
would appreciate some feed back see this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-3-tmobile/help/nexus-4-to-note-3-questions-t3173473
Not sure if my jelly bean note is at its peak performance now.. it performs so well but i wanna upgrade for the sake of upgrading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Beegbear:
I have decided to stay with KitKat for now because of the fact you can't use the xPosed framework on Lollipop and the fact KitKat is just a more stable platform and has many more Roms available. I used this page:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2765014
to get my Note 3 on the newest stock KitKat rom, then root it, then install the latest TWRP recovery. I carefully followed the exact steps in this guide except that I did use a newer TWRP recovery I downloaded from: https://dl.twrp.me/hltetmo/twrp-2.8.7.0-hltetmo-4.4.img.tar
Other than using this newer TWRP I went step by step through this guide. I still plan on installing a custom KitKat rom but right now I am researching various roms to try and decide which one. But at least I have latest stock, root, and a good recovery right now.

I'd start with Tweaked. A flawless TW KK ROM. Only if unsatisfied would I bother with LP. Apparently the developer is working on an LP variant, but we'll see. He releases long after others, due to commitments, but well worth the wait. There is an xposed for LP available, but carefully research what modules work with it and compare to what you want.

ytj87 said:
I'd start with Tweaked. A flawless TW KK ROM. Only if unsatisfied would I bother with LP. Apparently the developer is working on an LP variant, but we'll see. He releases long after others, due to commitments, but well worth the wait. There is an xposed for LP available, but carefully research what modules work with it and compare to what you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. You caught me just before I was about to install Hyperdrive N3 RLS7.1. I'd like to ask you what you think of this ROM?
And as for tweaked, I have come across two possible versions of a "tweaked" ROM. Tweaked ROM [Material L Theme] and TweakedN3 v3.x. Are these actually the same ROM? I'm looking around but still am not sure on this.
Thanks for your reply.
Olin

Well I "think" I have it figured out and I am in fact going to go with the Tweaked ROM, basic install procedure. Thanks so much for your advice ytj87 - I would have installed that other ROM if I had not seen your post. I may do that down the road anyway but I intend to give Tweaked a thorough test before I do. It looks great and based on forum info it seems less buggy than most of the other roms I researched.
Olin

Will probably come down to the experience you want. Tweaked is more stock with an emphasis on stability. I haven't used Hyperdrive, but when you see a ROM like that which integrates something other than the Note 3 TW UI, you're more likely to see glitches. It's the same NF9 base, though, and it has been around a while, and it looks interesting, so at some point give it a shot if curious. I personally prefer the Note 3 original UI to the S5's, so I probably won't try it.
TweakedN3 3.95. The LP themed one I haven't used.