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Can someone explain to me how T-Mo will be able to tell the difference between regular browsing on the G2 and tethering? I use the wireless tether for root users and the usb tether for root users apps. I have a feeling that as long as you're not constantly getting your bandwidth throttled from going over the data cap you won't get charged. I guess we'll find out this week as their tethering plans are starting on sunday.
T-mobile has a application I believe.. thats what I've been hearing... That you get charged $10 the moment you activate it. But T-mobile will know a tether user from a regular bandwidth user, they caught me for tethering on my G1.. said I use A LOT of data... way over 5GB worth...
creepinm3 said:
T-mobile has a application I believe.. thats what I've been hearing... That you get charged $10 the moment you activate it. But T-mobile will know a tether user from a regular bandwidth user, they caught me for tethering on my G1.. said I use A LOT of data... way over 5GB worth...
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Click to collapse
They wont know, since data is data. When you stream media or use youtube, that takes a lot of data. They will throttle your speed after the 5gb, but I "heard" there's a loop hole in the system...By switching the 2G only for around an hour and going back to 3G only, your phone will get back the full speed. i only use tether when not in wifi area or home or for PS3 to increase pc bandwidth. Maybe they do have an app, but people have been tether for years on diff phones. There are other tether apps besides froyo one, easythether, pdanet, barnacle,etc. The android price is already high for no good reason, and we should get the free tethering, cause other phones have cheaper data.I dont see why android gets a higher data package, before my plan was around 50, now its like 80 a month.
If you currently have unlimited data, you will be grandfathered in as of 11/14 and will not be charged for tethering.
This came straight from my T-Mobile rep.
rwbarnes67 said:
If you currently have unlimited data, you will be grandfathered in as of 11/14 and will not be charged for tethering.
This came straight from my T-Mobile rep.
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Click to collapse
i am sorry, but thats like saying a gnome told you
CHECK THIS OUT. I had issues earlier with roaming on wifi tether. So I redownloaded the (root) wifi tether to see if tmo was capping me. Well? This is the address that popped up both times on both stock and root wifi tether {http://offers.t-mobile.com/tethering/admin/roaming.jsp} after the page told me that it can't be redirected.I believe this address is in the programming on the sim. When you tether, look at the bottom left of your web page where it tells you the progress of that page. You will see "offers.t-mobile.com". Your page gets directed there first than back to you. That's how they now. Funny thing is, I had roaming tether this morning at 03:30 cst. Noon comes around and nothing. It works fine on their network (not roaming). To answer the golden question if tmo can tell if we are tethering or not? YES!! Tmo verified that for me today without asking. Tether charges will take place on the 14th and we will be notified first to have the choice. They said now that they have the HSPA+ network that they now have control of tether. And also mentioned that other networks have been doing this. "This is a business and we have to make money too" Tmo rep.
This issue can be argued by usps by going to tmobile.com and going to customer relations link and there you find a physical address to headquarters. I was told they will reply to your complaint,concern or comments.
I will be writing them when I get in from Washington.
edit; I just checked for the address at the bottom of the page while on tmo network (not roaming) and I did not see the afore mentioned. maybe it only shows while roaming. IDK
Edit; 11/13 15:17cst:/
Roaming issue fixed. Flashed a repacked stock rom. Fixed all issues I was having after flashing bb 03.
rwbarnes67 said:
If you currently have unlimited data, you will be grandfathered in as of 11/14 and will not be charged for tethering.
This came straight from my T-Mobile rep.
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apzalo said:
i am sorry, but thats like saying a gnome told you
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Exactly. My wife works for T-mobile. She has worked on the sales floor, in the call centers, and often goes to the trainings at corporate in Bellevue, WA. But she would be the first person to tell you that the majority of the crap that reps say is either completely unsubstantiated rumors, or completely made up out of thin air. T-mobile knows that their entry level employees in the call centers and retail shops, are too stupid to be trusted with anything other than the basic info needed to do their job. Even in management, she is only very rarely privileged to information that isn't already floating around online. Most of their employees don't understand their tech, products, and services anymore than what they can read off of the very basic scripts and trainings they give them. The people working for T-mo that are truly passionate about things, and actually know details like this, are not the people you get to talk to, and usually aren't the types to go blabbing what they know.
Unless what the rep is telling you has been leaked or confirmed by other sources, 90% of the time it's complete BS, or they just read it online like the rest of us.
Sent from my rooted and OCed turbo space abacus using the power of positive thinking and a toothpick.
while i agree to an extent, reps don't know anything about their jobs or the phones. most reps get their info from tmonews or XDA just like we do. i have gone into my t-mo store on many occasions and asked questions and watched as the rep pulled up tmo news on the comp or xda app on their phone. reps are useless for info
etjrowe said:
T-mobile knows that their entry level employees in the call centers and retail shops, are too stupid to be trusted with anything other than the basic info needed to do their job.
...
Sent from my rooted and OCed turbo space abacus using the power of positive thinking and a toothpick.
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As a T-Mobile tech service rep, I take great exception to this. Not all of us "too stupid" to know what's going on.
Having said that, it pisses me off to no end when other reps give out inaccurate info. I pride myself in knowing my stuff and doing it right. I never present any rumor as fact, nor do I make stuff up to placate customers.
So you can take your assumptions about me and shove them someplace unpleasant. Good day to you, sir.
p.s. But you are right that this whole "grandfathered in for free tethering" sounds like complete BS to me. Damn these reps making us look bad
I don't care about the data cap to be honest, I don't spend that much time outside of an actual wi-fi area. But I still have yet to see a legitimate, no BS answer as to whether or not T-Mobile will know that a person is tethering. Will the App itself report to T-Mobile, because to me, that seems to be the only way that "tethered data" and "smartphone data" can be differentiated by T-Mobile.
My understanding is that with PDANet, tethering looks like normal data use. Does Wireless Tether or the hacked Sprint Hotspot app (warm 2.2) also show up as normal data use or can Sprint tell you're tethering over wifi?
I ask because apparently AT&T has been sending letters to customers who use MyWi forcing them to either sign up for a tethering plan or stop tethering... Can (would?) Sprint do something similar?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Sprint can't tell unless they use Deep Packet Inspection and see something like "Oh hey, what's all this encrypted traffic coming from Netflix's server?".
As for AT&T, they're just yelling at anyone with high amounts of data usage. Simple as that.
I dont think think they can. Just the other day, I went to the Sprint store and the guy noticed that my Evo "looked" different! He said "man how you do that!" I showed him the Rom and told him about rooting, tether and all. He said " "damm. show me how to do that on mines"....i told about Unrevoked and XDA. NOW Im sure he could be reading this thread!
i'm not sure if they can, but i think they stated publicly that they dont care. their paid one just works better, and on 3g and 4g, while consuming less battery than the rest. this is their response, and i think it works well. self-advertising while not angering devs. pretty good of them.
so once rooted, do i have to download wireless tether or can i use the hot spot app without being charged?
Evo13 said:
so once rooted, do i have to download wireless tether or can i use the hot spot app without being charged?
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if you switch roms, most have a hacked hospot to work on 3g. wifi tether app also works on 4g.
Evo13 said:
so once rooted, do i have to download wireless tether or can i use the hot spot app without being charged?
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you can do both no charge.
Sprint mainly checks for users exceeding the 5Gb per month for data. Other than that, it is difficult to tell without users feeling that their privacy is being invaded. 5Gb comes up quickly if you are streaming movies or downloading outside the normal browsing or youtube.
engelsione said:
I dont think think they can. Just the other day, I went to the Sprint store and the guy noticed that my Evo "looked" different! He said "man how you do that!" I showed him the Rom and told him about rooting, tether and all. He said " "damm. show me how to do that on mines"....i told about Unrevoked and XDA. NOW Im sure he could be reading this thread!
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but it wouldn't be a store employee checking anyway. Either way, seems like they don't care.
My evo was rooted with revoked, but still using the standard rom. I was able to use wireless tether without converting to any other rom. Be sure to use the security features (passphrase and access control) to prevent inadvertent use by others.
TheEdge88 said:
Sprint mainly checks for users exceeding the 5Gb per month for data. Other than that, it is difficult to tell without users feeling that their privacy is being invaded. 5Gb comes up quickly if you are streaming movies or downloading outside the normal browsing or youtube.
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Sprint doesn't have a 5gb limit on smartphone plans, that is only on data cards on the 3g network. I just watched a commercial yesterday with Dan Hess stating that Sprints unlimited plans have no limits, unlike Verizon and AT&T.
cruise350 said:
Sprint doesn't have a 5gb limit on smartphone plans, that is only on data cards on the 3g network. I just watched a commercial yesterday with Dan Hess stating that Sprints unlimited plans have no limits, unlike Verizon and AT&T.
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they dont have a throttle, they just look into it if you pull that much. like somebody said earlier, if you're pulling 8 gigs from netflix's server, there is only one explanation.
Anybody know of any specific examples of customers getting called out for excessive data use or wifi tethering? I assume there would've been an outrage on XDA and I would've heard about it... I don't think it's happened yet.
I get it that Sprint says they're truly unlimited but I have a nagging suspicion that they're eventually going to crack down on unauthorized tethering. Not that that's going to stop me in the mean time!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I'd have to dig through the contract and T&C but technically speaking wouldn't tethering without a plan be a contract violation? I'm not claiming to be Mr. Innocent here. I've done the free tethering and have had tethering plans. Just seems to me that since we all signed contracts legally speaking the carriers have more of a leg to stand on than we do.
Sent from my Cyanogenized HTC Evo 4G using XDA Premium App
I think with the sale of tmobile to at&t, Sprint will increase their user base with people bailing either one. Maybe, hopefully not, they'll begin to check our usage.
Then again, they'll be moving to LTE. Which means those of us with wimax devices, yours truly, will be left to use our data to our desires. At least I hope so.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I use over 20 gigs a month downloading files(ROMs, files for work, etc) and streaming videos to my phone and have for almost two years. Not once have I been throttled or warned.
Sent from my iPhone with the bigger Gee Bees.
So it sounds like the takeaway is that if Sprint wanted to, they could tell that you're tethering, but there is no evidence that they've ever done it or taken any action against customers... Cool.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Sprint is a member of the open handset alliance. They don't care.
http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
I use Slingplayer daily for hours sometimes, then I'll tether my iPad 2 and watch movies from my computer while traveling around via AirVideo. I am currently at 10GB of usage this month which is average, they never throttled me or anything.
I've hit over 12GB of usage regularly with no complaints from Sprint. YMMV.
Ive been tossing around a idea in my head alot if people complain about sprints bad data speeds but i wonder is it our fault? Are we taking advantage of sprint with the free tethering clogging up data in top of the unlimited data we use but not paying causing sprint to lose money? im not tryna talk **** on anyone who tethers free cuz i do it to im just wondering are we hurting ourselves rather than helping?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Excessive use is a breach of contract. Some people have said they have had their service canceled because of high data usage.
And yes it is a drain on everyone else using that tower, and we all suffer as a result.
I wouldn't say it's our fault. It's Sprints fault for not properly upgrading the towers to accommodate for all the new subscribers.
Sent From My Evo Killer!!!
rruss said:
Ive been tossing around a idea in my head alot if people complain about sprints bad data speeds but i wonder is it our fault? Are we taking advantage of sprint with the free tethering clogging up data in top of the unlimited data we use but not paying causing sprint to lose money? im not tryna talk **** on anyone who tethers free cuz i do it to im just wondering are we hurting ourselves rather than helping?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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It's Sprint's fault for not upgrading their network much [if at all] since 2003.
It's Sprint's fault for not estimating the data demands over their customers over the last two years.
But of course it isn't helpful when people use 60 GB of data a month.
Not all of us tether free even when rooted. This is Sprints fault. They know the ammount of data devices they sell and they should adjust their networks accordingly
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Our fault? No fncking way. This is Sprint's fault. We might seem like a huge community on XDA...our phone and every other Sprint model...and there are an impressive number of accounts here. But, in the big picture, we are a drop in the bucket....it would take 25-50 of us on every tower tethering constantly streaming video or downloading torrents 100% of the time, saturating the line, with a perfect signal in line-of-sight of the tower for them to blame us for their network sucking. This is technology. It is constantly marching forward. Wireless is the new broadband. Period. Us geeks knew this years ago, even when it seemed absurd and the technology was an immeasurable amount of years away. Then it wasn't just close, it was here...and they did nothing...
...in fact...We are at the cutting edge, we are pushing this technology. We should be the benchmark by which the capability of their network is judged. If they scale their network according to if their entire network was composed of users only like us with our data usage they wouldn't have these problems...instead they over-sell and under-supply their network banking on people under utilizing the bandwidth they were promised. That's the most important cornerstone of any type of data connection business....we can't possible use it all up 100% of the time, right? They should scale the network to fit *our* needs, to play it safe.
...but then they would just sit on their asses that much longer into the next generation. Short term profits over long term viability...that's the new way. If they were to put that kind of investment into their network investors would be fncking furious because it would cost capital and the stock would sink momentarily once those expenditures were announced.
OUR fault? Hardly. It is their fault. Who? The engineers? The techs? No, they know better and they wouldn't have done this. The sales people? They don't typically even know better. The CSR's on the phone? They don't even care.... it's the god damned CFO and CEO and the nature of the market that is to blame. Forest for the trees, cut off the nose to spite the face, penny wise pound foolish, etc etc etc.
Our fault?
Lol, no.
daneurysm said:
Our fault? No fncking way. This is Sprint's fault. We might seem like a huge community on XDA...our phone and every other Sprint model...and there are an impressive number of accounts here. But, in the big picture, we are a drop in the bucket....it would take 25-50 of us on every tower tethering constantly streaming video or downloading torrents 100% of the time, saturating the line, with a perfect signal in line-of-sight of the tower for them to blame us for their network sucking. This is technology. It is constantly marching forward. Wireless is the new broadband. Period. Us geeks knew this years ago, even when it seemed absurd and the technology was an immeasurable amount of years away. Then it wasn't just close, it was here...and they did nothing...
...in fact...We are at the cutting edge, we are pushing this technology. We should be the benchmark by which the capability of their network is judged. If they scale their network according to if their entire network was composed of users only like us with our data usage they wouldn't have these problems...instead they over-sell and under-supply their network banking on people under utilizing the bandwidth they were promised. That's the most important cornerstone of any type of data connection business....we can't possible use it all up 100% of the time, right? They should scale the network to fit *our* needs, to play it safe.
...but then they would just sit on their asses that much longer into the next generation. Short term profits over long term viability...that's the new way. If they were to put that kind of investment into their network investors would be fncking furious because it would cost capital and the stock would sink momentarily once those expenditures were announced.
OUR fault? Hardly. It is their fault. Who? The engineers? The techs? No, they know better and they wouldn't have done this. The sales people? They don't typically even know better. The CSR's on the phone? They don't even care.... it's the god damned CFO and CEO and the nature of the market that is to blame. Forest for the trees, cut off the nose to spite the face, penny wise pound foolish, etc etc etc.
Our fault?
Lol, no.
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Click to collapse
Lol damn i feel like u starting a revolution
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
phatmanxxl said:
Excessive use is a breach of contract. Some people have said they have had their service canceled because of high data usage.
And yes it is a drain on everyone else using that tower, and we all suffer as a result.
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Mine was canceled due to high data usage while tethering.
Sent from my SCH-I405 using xda premium
Yes, it's the tetherers' fault. They're sucking up bandwidth from an already overburdened network.
Yes it's Sprint's fault. They've allowed their network to be overburdened when they should have been upgrading.
Yes it's the Apple fanbois' fault. They exist...
It's both parties fault. Those that put the blame only on Sprint are being stupid.
Yes, tethering uses a ton of bandwidth but that's not the only offender here. Torrents and streaming media are another huge burden. They were when I was on T Mobile also and even with me using their 21.1Mbps network it still slowed down often. Some people are just selfish and don't care that their data usage IS effecting others. Honestly it's more your fault than it is Sprint's.
You knew the network capabilities.
You knew how many people were on the network.
You knew the coverage area.
You knew how many people use smartphones.
You knew how much of a burden they are on any network.
You knew WiMax wasn't very good.
You went to the store and got the phone.
You upgraded for another 2 year contract.
You tethered.
You downloaded torrents.
You stream large amounts of media.
You rooted and ILLEGALLY used the wifi hotspot feature.
But of course it's all Sprints fault, right? Not at all your fault?
Get brains or GTFO
KCRic said:
It's both parties fault. Those that put the blame only on Sprint are being stupid.
Yes, tethering uses a ton of bandwidth but that's not the only offender here. Torrents and streaming media are another huge burden. They were when I was on T Mobile also and even with me using their 21.1Mbps network it still slowed down often. Some people are just selfish and don't care that their data usage IS effecting others. Honestly it's more your fault than it is Sprint's.
You knew the network capabilities.
You knew how many people were on the network.
You knew the coverage area.
You knew how many people use smartphones.
You knew how much of a burden they are on any network.
You knew WiMax wasn't very good.
You went to the store and got the phone.
You upgraded for another 2 year contract.
You tethered.
You downloaded torrents.
You stream large amounts of media.
You rooted and ILLEGALLY used the wifi hotspot feature.
But of course it's all Sprints fault, right? Not at all your fault?
Get brains or GTFO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it THAT serious man?
KCRic said:
But of course it's all Sprints fault, right? Not at all your fault?
Get brains or GTFO
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Click to collapse
Sprint supplies me with an unlimited connection. They told me so. They say that to millions of people every hour of every day. Whether that is via tethering or not is completely irrelevant... I can saturate the line, easily, without tethering using features that they proudly advertise....
... And the fact that a service provider cannot provide me with a service that they not only advertise as their crown jewel but I also pay for specifically is somehow my fault!?
If all of the "illegal" tethering were to stop right this second I'd wager it wouldn't make a bit of noticeable difference.
If you cannot provide a service why sell it?
Our fault? No..Sprint's fault.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
blestsol said:
Is it THAT serious man?
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Click to collapse
+1 on that... dont know about anyone else but I have been on Sprint for a while now and since my TP/Diamond days and well before that the network has been slow. Also in my area I am sure not every tower I am hitting has a large mass of people doing tethering and downloading torrents but I can tell you that my data speeds stay consistently slow. There are probably many factors here that contribute to our slow speeds so lets not finger point too much guys..
---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------
daneurysm said:
If all of the "illegal" tethering were to stop right this second I'd wager it wouldn't make a bit of noticeable difference.
If you cannot provide a service why sell it?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
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I think he may have a point there...
I pay for Hotspot and I also grabbed Wifi Tether 3.1 beta 6 and 3.1 beta 99. I can't believe they are going to cap Hotspot! $30 a month. I don't use torrents but I will probably download ROMs on the Wifi Tether to watch that cap. What will cap be on Hotspot and effective when?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
daneurysm said:
Sprint supplies me with an unlimited connection. They told me so. They say that to millions of people every hour of every day. Whether that is via tethering or not is completely irrelevant... I can saturate the line, easily, without tethering using features that they proudly advertise....
... And the fact that a service provider cannot provide me with a service that they not only advertise as their crown jewel but I also pay for specifically is somehow my fault!?
If all of the "illegal" tethering were to stop right this second I'd wager it wouldn't make a bit of noticeable difference.
If you cannot provide a service why sell it?
Our fault? No..Sprint's fault.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Restrictions apply
Sent from my SCH-I405 using xda premium
It's true Restrictions do apply there are people however that do abuse the system though as well. In all honesty what's the appeal of doing torrents on a phone via a tethered connection? If you need something so bad use your computer at home I'm pretty sure the local internet provider is faster then Sprint's network.
with my first month on sprint now behind me I used less then 2 gig of data that's between watching a few video's on you tube and downloading market apps as well as just surfing the net on the phone while I'm on break. granted it might of been more but when I'm home I have a computer I can do all of those things on so why clog up the lines seriously.
I do agree a little though that even if Tethered apps went away I don't see it really affecting things much. But at least where I'm at I'm happy with the service and it's better then what I had with T-Mobile and it was great for school atleast till today (damn school jacking **** up so now ALL Sprint users are in the same boat as me LOS while at school for some dumb reason.)
KCRic said:
It's both parties fault. Those that put the blame only on Sprint are being stupid.
Yes, tethering uses a ton of bandwidth but that's not the only offender here. Torrents and streaming media are another huge burden. They were when I was on T Mobile also and even with me using their 21.1Mbps network it still slowed down often. Some people are just selfish and don't care that their data usage IS effecting others. Honestly it's more your fault than it is Sprint's.
You knew the network capabilities.
You knew how many people were on the network.
You knew the coverage area.
You knew how many people use smartphones.
You knew how much of a burden they are on any network.
You knew WiMax wasn't very good.
You went to the store and got the phone.
You upgraded for another 2 year contract.
You tethered.
You downloaded torrents.
You stream large amounts of media.
You rooted and ILLEGALLY used the wifi hotspot feature.
But of course it's all Sprints fault, right? Not at all your fault?
Get brains or GTFO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guys a fricken toolbox. Its very obvious even to sprint there networks are so heavily saturated because they didn't do upgrades fast enough. They were sent backpeddling with wimax and are scrambling and giving it a 110% right now supposedly with there new program to hit every tower in America with upgrades because they haven't been in the ball. Wait a bit and it should all be getting upgraded. Its lame when u arnt the Guy using TONS of bandwidth on your PC on torrents and you go to download your favorite Tom update and its maxing at .2Mb/sec but its all screwed up anyway. It will get better. Honestly I'm happy as can be right now
Some folks forget that Sprint whores out...sorry...wholesales out their network to every Tom **** and Harry MVNO and their mother.
Who's the newest company to announce plans to wholesale from Sprint? Republic Wireless...
So we already have Sprint, VMobile, Boost, Clear, Comcast, TimeWarner...e.t.c, and yet some want to hypothesize that it is a paying Sprint customers fault?
Let's dig a bit further...you advertize unlimited data, and I have the boriest night shift job in the world but I have this giganticus Android phone with a glorious app called Netflix, hallelujah, no more boredom at work.
One doesn't have to tether only to suck data. I could Netflix for hours a day (re: boring night job) and not be in violation of their ToS regarding tethering. Only if 3g was worth using...so slow.
As the last bastion in unlimited data, Sprint has to beef up their network and keep that niche carved up good, and we have to also cherish it too else it's easy for Sprint to start capping data (which is definitely coming).
Will I stop tethering? No. Why? Because between phone data usage AND the occasional tethering, I don't use up to 1gb (because 3g has become so slow I can't even use it for data intensive stuff like YouTube or even the afformentioned Netflix. At least 4g is decent when it works)
Sent from my Nexus S 4G
Xhyperion said:
Restrictions apply
Sent from my SCH-I405 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
If "Unlimited" isn't actually unlimited then they should use a more precise word...oh...I dunno...like limited. The word exists and it means what they mean when they say the word that has the opposite meaning. Seems a little deceptive to me.
I have asked about this "Unlimited" with CSRs at my local Sprint store, my local Sprint corporate store, in online chat, over the phone etc etc etc, and regardless of what the fine print might say every single one of them over the past 2 years has told me that "Unlimited" means unlimited, without limit. I don't know, perhaps EVERYONE in the chain of command and EVERYONE being heavily advertised to and EVERYONE who payed for an "Unlimited" plan might--just might--be a little confused as to why the word "Unlimited" is being used when there are far more fitting and far less confusing words to use.
Unlimited meaning without limit, synonymous with "infinite supply of." How a company would stake their ENTIRE survival on a typo (and the iPhone) eludes me.
I have (without tethering at all) pulled 10-20gb in a month before, sometimes higher. I never heard a word. Is that wrong of me? No. I was sold "Unlimited data" I pay for "Unlimited data" and I think it is not unreasonable to use unlimited data in an unlimited fashion.
Sure, there might be some twaddle in the contract about using so much data that you degrade the experience for other users of the network being against the rules...but...for the past 6-8 months it has been nigh on impossible for me to get speeds (or consistent connections) that allow me to get the service that I paid for let alone enough of it that I could ruin anything for anyone else....
...I'm pretty sure that's where the jackasses that say the WE "ruined it" come in to play.
This is Sprint's fault and no restrictions apply to that statement.
daneurysm said:
If "Unlimited" isn't actually unlimited then they should use a more precise word...oh...I dunno...like limited. The word exists and it means what they mean when they say the word that has the opposite meaning. Seems a little deceptive to me.
I have asked about this "Unlimited" with CSRs at my local Sprint store, my local Sprint corporate store, in online chat, over the phone etc etc etc, and regardless of what the fine print might say every single one of them over the past 2 years has told me that "Unlimited" means unlimited, without limit. I don't know, perhaps EVERYONE in the chain of command and EVERYONE being heavily advertised to and EVERYONE who payed for an "Unlimited" plan might--just might--be a little confused as to why the word "Unlimited" is being used when there are far more fitting and far less confusing words to use.
Unlimited meaning without limit, synonymous with "infinite supply of." How a company would stake their ENTIRE survival on a typo (and the iPhone) eludes me.
I have (without tethering at all) pulled 10-20gb in a month before, sometimes higher. I never heard a word. Is that wrong of me? No. I was sold "Unlimited data" I pay for "Unlimited data" and I think it is not unreasonable to use unlimited data in an unlimited fashion.
Sure, there might be some twaddle in the contract about using so much data that you degrade the experience for other users of the network being against the rules...but...for the past 6-8 months it has been nigh on impossible for me to get speeds (or consistent connections) that allow me to get the service that I paid for let alone enough of it that I could ruin anything for anyone else....
...I'm pretty sure that's where the jackasses that say the WE "ruined it" come in to play.
This is Sprint's fault and no restrictions apply to that statement.
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Really, this argument?
Just like "free" doesn't really mean "complete and absolutely free."
Give me one example in life where "always" [hell or even the opposite] "never" actually are true.
You can't.
Language isn't perfect, especially English.
Hell even the English language has exceptions to every rule.
Sorry, but this is a rather silly complaint.
Hey! So I have an unlimited data plan on virgin mobile canada that doe not include tethering. In the past I have always tethered using apps like fox fi without any charges so I had assumed I was safe to continue doing so. This month I received a large phone bill because they decided to charge me for tethering. I cant figure out how they determined that i was tethering though. My only clue is that in the last month I have used roms with the built in tethering enabled, specifically free gs3 which includes the tmo tethering app. Could using that app have alerted my carrier that i was tethering whenever I used it?
Also, and I dont mean to beg but I'm broke so if anyone wants to help me out with this bill feel free not that I'm expecting anything but It'd be greatly appreciated aha
Thanks again!
They can't just up and charge you. They must warn you first. You can get in trouble for tethering when you shouldn't but they can't force you to pay for service you didn't ask for. Call them and play dumb. Deny everything. They will warn you to never do it again and read to you the tos....blah blah blah. Basically....call and act stupid.
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My curiosity is getting the best of me if you dont mind me asking how much was the Bill? if you prefer not to say no big deal im just curious how much one can rack up with tethering for a month.......and as far as your question, End answered it perfectly, call and play completely stupid as you have no idea if you have unlimited data how in the heck can they charge, then if they mention the word "tether" say you dont even know what that is and if its a feature that your not suppose to have then why would they allow you to? That seems predatory, I know you used an app but this is all part of it. You can always try things like " I am going to have to contact the BBB" or "Well I am going to hYouave to take my business elsewhere because I have never been accused or treated like this before with a company". Things like that usually work because their number 1 goal is to keep you happy and to keep you as a customer. I just wouldnt even mention the word "Tether" unless they do, but dont ever say too much play stupid and simple you know I use my phone for calls and texts and web browsing. Things like that.
Take Care and Good Luck
PS. If you are El Broke O' and they dont budge on the phone after doing the ABOVE you can always setup a payment plan with them. They should always allow that. You just tell them what you can afford and they will usually always agree. Believe me they just want to get their money doesnt matter how or when as long as you are paying. Because most people just say screw them and go somewhere else without paying.
No offense, however, in your OP you clearly stated that tethering was not included in your package and you tethered. What did you expect your carrier to do? Surprise!
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SaneinOne said:
No offense, however, in your OP you clearly stated that tethering was not included in your package and you tethered. What did you expect your carrier to do? Surprise!
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda premium
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He knows that, he just wants to know how the carrier figured out he was tethering.
using native carrier tethering apps hacked to give free access would absolutely alert them to your behavior...that and excessive amounts of data used in a small amount of time
also keep in mind excessive amounts of data can also mean signifigantly more than your average use from past months...they got their clue somehow, time to own up and pay my friend!
thanks guys! Yeah im not mad that i was charged doing something i wasnt suposed too, i guess it must have been the stock app. Anyways I was told the email address of some corporate guy at virgin so hopefully I can work something out with him, thanks for all your advice!
I would imagine it has something to do with a different APN setting.
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So would the cm10 setup give you up?
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If tethering is not part of your plan then I would suggest operating under the premise that tethering is tethering as far as a carrier is concerned.
X10D3 said:
So would the cm10 setup give you up?
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Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda premium
More likely than not, it was the wi-fi drivers that gave you away. I'm not sure about the exact details, but I believe that when you tether via wifi (using the phone's wifi interface as an access point), the datagrams from traffic routed through the wifi interface look identifiably different from traffic originating within the phone itself.
I don't know anybody who's ever gotten caught tethering via ADB (Easytether, etc). I've seen a lot of people get busted for tethering via wifi.
Remember, carriers go for low-hanging fruit, and wifi tethering is an easy target. It's not even a matter of spyware or deep packet inspection. I think it's actually a single bit in the datagram that's clear for phone-originated traffic, and set for routed traffic. ADB-based apps aren't affected, because all network traffic passing through them is by definition to or from the host via ADB. In contrast, wifi/bluetooth-tethered traffic returned to the phone might be for a local app, or it might be for one routed through the phone. The phone's network stack uses the bit as an easy, low-impact way to make its job easy and figure out whether it needs to pass the traffic to a local app on the phone, or just hand it over to the wifi driver for further routing.
I believe that if you wanted to safely tether via wifi, you'd basically have to run a PPP server on the phone, connect to it from the client PC via wifi, then the PPP server running on the phone would take the traffic and treat it the same way EasyTether would, so to Android it looked exactly like app-originated traffic (because it basically is; the fact that the app is originating it on behalf of a connected client is none of Android's business).
If you want to make your tethering foolproof, tether to the phone via ADB, and tunnel it to the internet via some thirdparty VPN (I use a company called ibvpn.com; it's around $3/month if you pay by the year, and also comes in handy for safely using unencrypted wifi in public places with a tablet).
They can tell no matter how you do it and most of the carriers, at least in the US, are now activly looking for people doing this. They can tell by the obvious jump in traffic, but other ways as well. Broswer signatures, etc. It's really very simple for them to pick it up just by watching your data flow, has nothing to do with your handset it's self.
If your PC/Mac-originated traffic is being regenerated by an Android-hosted app like EasyTether (so it officially originated with the Android app, as opposed to having been routed by the wifi driver and kernel iptables), it would be extraordinarily difficult for the carrier to figure out its true nature without deep packet inspection. If you tunnel it over an IPsec VPN using PPTP or L2TP, it would be damn near impossible for them to establish tethering with enough certainty to ever prevail in court unless you were literally tethering daily as your primary means of getting online, as opposed to tethering once in a while when you lacked better access options (airport, beach, car, etc).
Traffic analysis can certainly SUGGEST tethering and get you flagged for an automatic nastygram informing you that it's going to be added to your plan unless you complain, but if you're using an ADB-type tethering method and tunneling, you could tell your carrier to go f**k themselves and prove it with a very high degree of confidence. If you have a data plan that's tiered, I can't fathom them investing the resources to prove that you're tethering once in a while. In the AT&T context, somebody who's tethering on a regular basis with a tiered data plan is going to go over 5 gigs and end up paying the same amount he'd have paid to openly tether anyway, and somebody who's only tethering occasionally & not exceeding 3 gigs/month wouldn't be worth the effort to track down.
Add the fact that most carriers (in the US, at least) either rate-limit your traffic after 5 gigs (or less), or (in the case of Sprint) will actively dump you as a customer if you routinely exceed 5 gigs month after month after month (as if anyone could actually exceed 5 gigs over their glacial, dysfunctional network anyway), and the business case for aggressive tethering enforcement that goes beyond looking for routing signatures in the datagram becomes almost nonexistent.
Now, if you have an unlimited data plan that they're itching to terminate and force you into a tiered plan, they might try a little harder... but if their payback potential is an extra $10/month (because you have a tiered plan and you're already paying them $40/month for 3 gigs plus an extra gig, instead of paying $50/month for 5 gigs you might not fully use), they aren't going to bother, especially if you push back. Remember, there are data privacy laws, and most of the things they'd have to do to prove tethering if you're actively obfuscating and tunneling your traffic are borderline greyhat hacking. A big corporation isn't going to risk getting smacked down by federal regulators over pocket change. They're going to shake down the easy targets, and move along.
Insofar as deep packet inspection goes, remember... it might be easy to gather enough evidence for them to auto-send a nastygram and auto-subscription notice, but it's HARD to gather enough evidence for them to risk pursuing a case against someone who's actively fighting back. Five years ago, it might have been easy to notice tethering from a J2ME, Blackberry, or PalmOS smartphone by looking for implausible traffic. Nowadays, there's very little traffic that couldn't plausibly be generated directly by an Android phone. RDP and VNC? Check. IPsec VPN? Check. SQL client? Check. SSH? Check. Bittorrent? Check. (Suicidal and insane, but plausible). Desktop browser identifiers? Nope. Android's own browser can spoof desktop browsers with casual ease (about:debug, then menu->Settings).
The way to win against your carrier is to make victory too expensive for them to bother with. They're looking for easy ways to boost revenue, not embarking on a moral crusade to stamp out tethering. Make victory more expensive for them than stalemate, and they'll leave you alone.
So when I turn on the mobile AP in CM, they can track that? What if I used the AP and turned on my BTGuard VPN? Then it's just encrypted traffic. I only used it for tethering my WIFI tablet. So the apps that used the connection were nearly/if not identical to the ones on my phone. Most of the time I'm running CM on my tablet as well.
So your saying if i tether via usb using an app like tether by clockworkmod from the play store i should be good?
And if I argue enough and don't shutup then they will most likely drop the charges?
I can't give any concrete assurances. I've never seen how the others work, and I can't promise that they don't do anything that would give it away. All I can say is that I've tethered in moderation for years via ADB using EasyTether and ibvpn.com ($3/month if you pay 12 months at a time, and handy for using your tablet via wifi in public places where encryption isn't otherwise used). I've never been hassled. Chances are, when I DO use it, I end up using less data anyway than somebody who streams videos from Netflix, Amazon, and Blockbuster.
At the end of the day, if you have an unlimited data plan and you're using it as your primary means of internet access, they're eventually going to find a pretense for getting rid of you regardless of what you say or do. Used in moderation once in a while, with reasonable precautions to make your tethering non-blatantly-obvious, you should be fine. Like I said, you're dealing with private companies, not government agencies out for jihad. They aren't going to waste 3 hours of a $20/hour employee's time researching your use just so they can quibble with you over a few dollars per month, especially if they're already getting most of it from you anyway in the form of fees for additional gigabytes of data. They're going to cast their net far and wide, skim off the easy pickings who don't know any better than to use bare wifi without obfuscation, then focus on the guys using 10-20 gigs of data per month or more.
Be discreet, keep your head down, act insulted if they confront you, and you should be fine.
^ pretty much what I thought
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It's all here, folks: http://androidandme.com/2014/08/new...ed-data-users-who-engage-in-p2p-file-sharing/
UPDATE: Here is more clarfied info related to yesterday's news: http://www.phonearena.com/news/T-Mobile-clarifies-plans-to-throttle-unlimited-customers_id59381
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Thank god I have WiFi like everyplace I go.lol
I hope they don't mind occasional p2p sharing. I do use a lot of data, but don't really torrent often at all.
I'm sure this is to target out people who think they are funny when they use 300GB - 1TB in a month. They say "well unlimited means unlimited" with a complete disregard for the TOS in regards to tethering, torrenting etc.
partylikeaninjastar said:
I hope they don't mind occasional p2p sharing. I do use a lot of data, but don't really torrent often at all.
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Same boat; sometimes it's just convenient to grab a torrent over the network. Hopefully they do it right and crack down more on abusers than users. Or some kind of technique can be developed as a work-around. This is a slippery slope, I can see the endgame here being higher costs for plans allowing the "privilege" to stream content and connect p2p, while lower tiered plans only allow for web browsing mms/sms. Short term, we could be throttled back essentially at their discretion for what they're stating in their memo. Which, incidentally, covers more than just torrents and hotspots
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I assume you can just use a VPN to get around it. I have unlimited but I'd almost never torrent on 4G, not to mention when I ever do its straight to a cloud based torrent capturing service.
BACARDILIMON said:
Thank god I have WiFi like everyplace I go.lol
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Lol I got a letter from cable company for downoading 2 movies with torrents
raw2000j said:
Lol I got a letter from cable company for downoading 2 movies with torrents
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What............... Wtf. Who is our cable company
BACARDILIMON said:
What............... Wtf. Who is our cable company
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Verizon fios
raw2000j said:
Verizon fios
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Say no more
I've only gotten notices from Comcast when I've shared things I've downloaded. Never for just downloading.
So if I use a lot of data by using netflix, red box I alright correct? Thanks
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partylikeaninjastar said:
I've only gotten notices from Comcast when I've shared things I've downloaded. Never for just downloading.
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If you torrent you share as you download. Unless you use one of the Leacher torrent programs but finding one that actually works is hard. You probably have just been lucky and haven't connected to a IP address that reports on any IP it connects with.
xda23 said:
So if I use a lot of data by using netflix, red box I alright correct? Thanks
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Yes, you are fine. This Tmo notice is for those are use their mobile connection as an always on, live data usage connection that is constantly saturating the connection with the tower/antenna, such as torrenting, webcasting or such.
But as Opensystem said, I think (and hope) this is to crackdown on the abusers and not users of their mobile connections. I've seen online others who are using their Tmo phone as a hotspot for ALL their internet use, including at home with multiple wifi connections working off of one device, because their LTE connection is solid and faster than their own DSL or cable connection and they cancelled that service and live off their Tmo LTE now.
ThePagel said:
If you torrent you share as you download. Unless you use one of the Leacher torrent programs but finding one that actually works is hard. You probably have just been lucky and haven't connected to a IP address that reports on any IP it connects with.
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You should never use a public torrent site unless you have to, and if you do, try not to share. Private trackers are more secure, but even then, nothing is completely secure. Even VPN providers have to abide by the laws of the country they reside in or risk being shut down.
I think T-Mobile is being very lenient here by only throttling. There's no mention of service suspension or termination if the user keeps doing this.
I am ok with this policy. T-Mobile should not be used as an ISP replacement (nor should any mobile carrier), that is why data tethering plans have caps. The unlimited plans are offered with the assumption that most users with a phone will not use more than a certain amount a month on average. The excessive uses must be dealt with accordingly, spectrum is not cheap, and if it's laid out in the Terms and Conditions, one cannot whine when the rules are finally enforced.
I have tethered outside of my tethering cap, but I use about 10-12 GB at the most (total between phone and hotspot). I'm technically still breaking the T&C, so if I end up being throttled when I exceed my tethering allowance, I won't be upset.
havanahjoe said:
You should never use a public torrent site unless you have to, and if you do, try not to share. Private trackers are more secure, but even then, nothing is completely secure. Even VPN providers have to abide by the laws of the country they reside in or risk being shut down.
I think T-Mobile is being very lenient here by only throttling. There's no mention of service suspension or termination if the user keeps doing this.
I am ok with this policy. T-Mobile should not be used as an ISP replacement (nor should any mobile carrier), that is why data tethering plans have caps. The unlimited plans are offered with the assumption that most users with a phone will not use more than a certain amount a month on average. The excessive uses must be dealt with accordingly, spectrum is not cheap, and if it's laid out in the Terms and Conditions, one cannot whine when the rules are finally enforced.
I have tethered outside of my tethering cap, but I use about 10-12 GB at the most (total between phone and hotspot). I'm technically still breaking the T&C, so if I end up being throttled when I exceed my tethering allowance, I won't be upset.
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Private trackers are no more secure than public that's kind of like thinking police need to say they are cops if you ask them. And you can find Vpns that completely sheild you , you just need to find the ones that don't keep logs. You will never get cought in the act and that's the only way to catch a no log VPN user. Its hard to find the no log vpns but private internet access is one of them at least for now. Surprisingly the USA is one of the few country's that do not mandate logs. Best tip you can get is to stay away from the huge VPN providers like hide my ass because they will log. Sadly private internet access is getting to be one of the huge providers and will probably have the capital to start saving logs soon.
You know in reality I'm sure that someone will figure out a work around just like they always seem to do.
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
ThePagel said:
Private trackers are no more secure than public that's kind of like thinking police need to say they are cops if you ask them. And you can find Vpns that completely sheild you , you just need to find the ones that don't keep logs. You will never get cought in the act and that's the only way to catch a no log VPN user. Its hard to find the no log vpns but private internet access is one of them at least for now. Surprisingly the USA is one of the few country's that do not mandate logs. Best tip you can get is to stay away from the huge VPN providers like hide my ass because they will log. Sadly private internet access is getting to be one of the huge providers and will probably have the capital to start saving logs soon.
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Nothing is more secure than not downloading any illegal torrents. There will be risk when downloading them, no matter how much you try to hide, some things are riskier than others.
havanahjoe said:
Nothing is more secure than not downloading any illegal torrents. There will be risk when downloading them, no matter how much you try to hide, some things are riskier than others.
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Truth
Here is the new, clarified info from Tmo: http://www.phonearena.com/news/T-Mobile-clarifies-plans-to-throttle-unlimited-customers_id59381
I will update the OP accordingly.
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