Develop Bugs

[Survey] Don't like MotoBlur.. add a post in here

hey guys.. i'd like to contact motorola and tell them ...
-> what a great phone they built (DEVY) but I also want to ask them
-> what they hell did they tried to do when building MotoBlur? and why they don't create anything more appropriate for such a great phone?
so it came into my mind.. just to get a number of people.. (just the number - no nick- no realnames) which agree to my opinion.. to tell them, that I'm not alone... :=)
a plan?
best regards,
-

I Like the idea behind motoblur, but i think it could have been implemented better. Also, i have a suspicion that Motoblur is the reason that we wont be getting android 2.2 unti Q2 next year, and thats a terrible thing :O. If they could speed up the android updates then i would love it :L

Well, after spending 3 years with iOS and 5+ months using SenseUI Motoblur came as a real shock. How a company can spend so little on software development/support in this day & age is beyond me?
It's like they got halfway through, realised it was rubbish/pointless and stopped. Mixing stock menus/calander app etc with the ropey launcher/lock screen/'my first widget' design is very confusing.
Still, at least the multi touch keyboard is good and errr.. DLNA and wifi hotspotting I guess.

sarge78 said:
Well, after spending 3 years with iOS and 5+ months using SenseUI Motoblur came as a real shock. How a company can spend so little on software development/support in this day & age is beyond me?
It's like they got halfway through, realised it was rubbish/pointless and stopped. Mixing stock menus/calander app etc with the ropey launcher/lock screen/'my first widget' design is very confusing.
Still, at least the multi touch keyboard is good and errr.. DLNA and wifi hotspotting I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean lol. The thing with the wifi hotspot app though is that it makes you doubt if you can use it. I turned it on and it said to make sure my network allows it??? , This part of motoblur caused a bit of a panic haha. The swype keyboard is brilliant but it took me a while to understand how it works haha

Blur is generally crap especially the launcher, however some of the apps - the email app for instance for me is very good, its the best email app I've used.

sarge78 said:
It's like they got halfway through, realised it was rubbish/pointless and stopped. Mixing stock menus/calander app etc with the ropey launcher/lock screen/'my first widget' design is very confusing.
Still, at least the multi touch keyboard is good and errr.. DLNA and wifi hotspotting I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha DD this really made me laugh.. you hit the point i just "observed" the ios from my girldfriends phone (and some more friends) .. owned an sense ui phone myself (hero) and had just the same thoughts hahahaha really great explanation
Higgsy said:
Blur is generally crap especially the launcher, however some of the apps - the email app for instance for me is very good, its the best email app I've used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but i have to confirm.. and also explain i also do like some apps the music app, the gallery, the keyboard (like sarge78 told us above) works perfectly -- the text when a new word is added to the user dictionary stays a little bit toooooooooo long , but typing is perfect...) so some applications are really great.
but the whole theme^^ really strange..
(i also like the general design, black and the red background when something is pressed.. but one thing the sms button on a contact, is big enough but I think it's optimized for chinese people, or at least the smallest fingers in the world out there )

Gosh, Captain America! Is this poll loaded or what!?

I feel divided for Blur.
The launcher is not bad, but there's better elsewhere... lot better.
I don't use all the social stuff (don't have facebook or twitter account, etc) so I can't really say if it's good or worst than a stock android.
But I like some apps loaded with Blur: DLNA, Voicecall, music player, etc
What I really dislike: all the blur services automaticly loaded even I don't want to use all this stuff...
I want the choice to load what I need

Le_Poilu said:
I feel divided for Blur.
The launcher is not bad, but there's better elsewhere... lot better.
I don't use all the social stuff (don't have facebook or twitter account, etc) so I can't really say if it's good or worst than a stock android.
But I like some apps loaded with Blur: DLNA, Voicecall, music player, etc
What I really dislike: all the blur services automaticly loaded even I don't want to use all this stuff...
I want the choice to load what I need
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This! I like my new Defy. but I hate that i starts lots of stuff that I don't want/use. I don't care about the stuff that come preloaded but don't start because the phone got loads of space for my apps

I definitely have mixed feelings about Blur. Some of it I really love, but it bogs so much and in the end I would rather not have it if everything is going to run so slow and our updates are going to take so long. All in all the defy is a great device, but if Moto doesn't step it up this time with updates I am done after this.

Voted dislike. The very first app I downloaded was LauncherProPlus. Bye Bye blur!

Le_Poilu said:
What I really dislike: all the blur services automaticly loaded even I don't want to use all this stuff...
I want the choice to load what I need
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted for great justice.
I just don't use Blur, which would be fine and wouldn't bother me either way, if only it didn't insist on loading all it's processes anyway.

Uhh just checked the number of processes motobloat is running...
52!
My stock desire is running 28... No wonder it lags so badly at times.

+1 for installing a different launcher (LauncherPro for me, thanks!) as the first thing after getting the phone
Dear MotoBloat: Please go to hell.
If I ever meet the guy who approved Motoblur I'll tear out his kneecaps with a rusty... no wait... I'll force him to use a stock Motorola phone for 24 hours! MUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Higgsy said:
Blur is generally crap especially the launcher, however some of the apps - the email app for instance for me is very good, its the best email app I've used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think the stock-app is better...
at least the push mail worked fine, which i can't say with the blur version :-/
btw. count me in...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App

scripttec said:
i think the stock-app is better...
at least the push mail worked fine, which i can't say with the blur version :-/
btw. count me in...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
personal preference i suppose, the stock android email app doesn't let you move mails between imap folders the blur one does, thats something i need.

Higgsy said:
personal preference i suppose, the stock android email app doesn't let you move mails between imap folders the blur one does, thats something i need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried adding your email(s) to Gmail? I have done that for all my other email address', and it works great. I only have to check one inbox to get all my emails from four different screen names. I use @Gmail, @AOL, @Hotmail, and @MSN.com. If you have to reply, or forward from one of your other address's you can choose to send from Gmail, or the one that it was sent to. You can also tag them, so you know what email is what in your inbox. Very handy.

Sorensiim said:
I'll force him to use a stock Motorola phone for 24 hours! MUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
;---DDD
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App

bobbyphoenix said:
Have you tried adding your email(s) to Gmail? I have done that for all my other email address', and it works great. I only have to check one inbox to get all my emails from four different screen names. I use @Gmail, @AOL, @Hotmail, and @MSN.com. If you have to reply, or forward from one of your other address's you can choose to send from Gmail, or the one that it was sent to. You can also tag them, so you know what email is what in your inbox. Very handy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah done that in the past. i only really use 1 email account with various aliases (blueyonder.co.uk). Via gmail i could view my mails but wouldn't be able to file them/transfer between my imap folders. i suppose i could just create imap folders in gmail but cant be arsed lol. Cheers for posting the tip.
oh and i dont need push email really, a check once every 30 mins is good for me

Great hardware but after several months with 2.2 on my magic, 2.1 with motoblurp on the defy is a big disappointment give me stock android 2.2 any day.

[REQUEST]HTC Messaging,Contacts,& Dialer

Well im currenting trying to get off the sense.
but i just cant live without having to sync my contacts with facebook, and i just hate having the vanilla messaging. its horrible to me,and im guessing i need the dial for the contacts.
so please anyone for a christmas,make someone happy=]
im currently trying to go to frost 3.1.1 i know its an older rom,
but it gave me amazing battery life so please can you guys send me the .zip file so i can just flash it over the rom=D
have a Merry Christmas

You can't use Sense applications or widgets without using Sense to my knowledge (I know widgets for a fact, and I'm fairly certain about the applications as well). Sorry

Greenfieldan said:
You can't use Sense applications or widgets without using Sense to my knowledge (I know widgets for a fact, and I'm fairly certain about the applications as well). Sorry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait vaelpak is half sense but he just doesn't have the damn messaging.
I really want the original messaging on for his rom.
Can someone pull this up for me?
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Q] Any way to disable smileys in SMS?

Graphical emoticons are driving me crazy, I usually disable them on all my devices and softwares. I am shocked that can't be done in the stock SMS app
Any way to disable them? Like deleting them from the respective APK?
Not only are they ugly, but for example "*" is translated into something... I don't even know what....
Yes, I hate them so much I'm even willing to go for another SMS app just because of this...

Sounds like your gonna need root.
sent from a Android device
I'm always on!

Yes, I do have root, I'm running Leedroid ROM, but the stock SMS app just has no way to disable those annoying ogre-like somethings...

Would be nice if HTC adds smileys pack to HTC hub... And at this moment I'm not wish to root my device, because too much software issue on it and stock roms comes faster than any custom
Sent from HTC 1x through Tapatalk.

Text Message Wake Up Screen?

Hi, I just flashed CM9 and I'm loving it.
The only thing I miss though is the feature
when you had a new text message, it woke up your screen.
Is that possible with CM9& the stock messaging app?
Is there some kind of mod or modded mms.apk or
something that when you get a new message, your screen will light up?
I apreciate the help, but No, I don't want a Third Party SMS app.
I'd like to keep it stock so no "GO SMS, CHOMP, HANDCENT", etc!
Thank you so much!

Brazildiogo732 said:
Hi, I just flashed CM9 and I'm loving it.
The only thing I miss though is the feature
when you had a new text message, it woke up your screen.
Is that possible with CM9& the stock messaging app?
Is there some kind of mod or modded mms.apk or
something that when you get a new message, your screen will light up?
I apreciate the help, but No, I don't want a Third Party SMS app.
I'd like to keep it stock so no "GO SMS, CHOMP, HANDCENT", etc!
Thank you so much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download sms pop up from Google play. Its free and has some nice options
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIV

Talk about wanting your cake and eating it to....
Sent from AOKP Goodness

I would actually suggest a third party messaging app such as gosms pro.
*Very Nice and Extensive List of Features
*Themes
*Private inbox (password protected)
*Emoji plugin for iPhone emotions
And more.
I used to not like third party messaging apps but this one is very well developed.
Btw I do not I'm any way represent the go developers I just like their app
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using XDA

Thank you so much for the reply! But the only reason I flashed this ROM and rooted my phone was to have the stock ics Messaging app. Its so clean and sleek looking! Thank you for your suggestion though.

Brazildiogo732 said:
Thank you so much for the reply! But the only reason I flashed this ROM and rooted my phone was to have the stock ics Messaging app. Its so clean and sleek looking! Thank you for your suggestion though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SMS pop up isn't a messaging app. Its an add on for your stock sms app
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIV

Yeah, I know I was talking about GOSMS. But I installed the one you recommended. I loved it, until I found out that unlocks your screen too. So when it's in my pocket, I can easily butt dial people mess with my phone accidentally. I would re-install that app if it didn't unlock your phone for you. I guess there is just no place like stock. I will be unrooting and going back to ics touchwiz tonight :[

dont listen to these guys. DONT GO BACK TONIGHT download
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...sawake&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDNd
no need for a dumb 3rd party messenger

noodles2224 said:
dont listen to these guys. DONT GO BACK TONIGHT download
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...sawake&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDNd
no need for a dumb 3rd party messenger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its works, but if you have BLN, it interferes with it. BLN won't come on if installed.
Sent from AOKP Goodness :-D

ok, well Ive never used BLN so I dont know if it has othe features for gmail or othe app notifications so its one or the other. and plus, he wanted that screen on feature.

noodles2224 said:
ok, well Ive never used BLN so I dont know if it has othe features for gmail or othe app notifications so its one or the other. and plus, he wanted that screen on feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just informing those that have ROMS with this feature, it does work well though. Does as advertised.
Sent from AOKP Goodness :-D

LoopDoGG79 said:
Talk about wanting your cake and eating it to....
Sent from AOKP Goodness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mmmm cake....
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

I'm using cm10, aug22 nightly and tried both applications. they both worked only when the phone is not on silent. but what i really wanted was the screen to turn on when in silent mode. it'll be really useful especially if you don't want the phone to ring or vibrate, yet you want to know that a text came in just by seeing the screen turn on. i'm also using a galaxy s, so i don't have led lights. any other apps i could try?

sms

snguyen0730 said:
Download sms pop up from Google play. Its free and has some nice options
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIV
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I've tried that, and it works for everything except when my phone is in silent mode... which is the only thing I need. I just need my screen to turn on when I get a text, using jelly bean's stock sms app.

[Q] Making the Switch from iPhone

I'm making the switch to the GS3 from several years of iPhones. Its been a while since ive had an android phone and it looks like a lot has changed. I had a few questions I was hoping the brilliant minds at xda would be able to help me out with. After being on the iPhone for a while theres a few features I have become attached to that I cant seem to figure out on the GS3.
Firstly I have gotten attached to the security features on the iphone. Setting a pin code but having a proper delay on its activation. So if pick up the phone and use it gain within 5 minutes the lockscreen still works but it doesn't prompt for the passcode. however, after that 5 minutes it will start prompting for it again. Maybe its just me but I have not found an effective way to get this working on the GS3. I have tried the delay settings but not matter what is set it seems as if the power button makes it prompt for the code again. Does anyone have a good solution to this? another small thing that annoys me about the pin unlock is having to hit the ok key after entering the pin.
Secondly I have become accustomed to the email client on the iPhone. While I do like the priority inbox and other features that the gmail app has on android I really miss the unified inbox. I have about 6 email accounts that I keep synced with my phone. Some gmail and some not. Can anyone recommend a really good email client that has unified inbox. of if there is any way to achieve this using the gmail app. I would prefer to use the gmail app because some of those gmail accounts sync with other parts of the phone such as contacts and calendars it seems kind of unnecessary to have accounts set up in settings to sync everything else and a separate app to just sync all of my same accounts for email.
Thanks for anyone who responds. I am also open to any custom rom options that people have to suggest that will help me solve my problems. I have been playing around with CM10 and I like it but theres still a few kinks to work out. I hope I am posting this in the right area.

bonzai6 said:
I'm making the switch to the GS3 from several years of iPhones. Its been a while since ive had an android phone and it looks like a lot has changed. I had a few questions I was hoping the brilliant minds at xda would be able to help me out with. After being on the iPhone for a while theres a few features I have become attached to that I cant seem to figure out on the GS3.
Firstly I have gotten attached to the security features on the iphone. Setting a pin code but having a proper delay on its activation. So if pick up the phone and use it gain within 5 minutes the lockscreen still works but it doesn't prompt for the passcode. however, after that 5 minutes it will start prompting for it again. Maybe its just me but I have not found an effective way to get this working on the GS3. I have tried the delay settings but not matter what is set it seems as if the power button makes it prompt for the code again. Does anyone have a good solution to this? another small thing that annoys me about the pin unlock is having to hit the ok key after entering the pin.
Secondly I have become accustomed to the email client on the iPhone. While I do like the priority inbox and other features that the gmail app has on android I really miss the unified inbox. I have about 6 email accounts that I keep synced with my phone. Some gmail and some not. Can anyone recommend a really good email client that has unified inbox. of if there is any way to achieve this using the gmail app. I would prefer to use the gmail app because some of those gmail accounts sync with other parts of the phone such as contacts and calendars it seems kind of unnecessary to have accounts set up in settings to sync everything else and a separate app to just sync all of my same accounts for email.
Thanks for anyone who responds. I am also open to any custom rom options that people have to suggest that will help me solve my problems. I have been playing around with CM10 and I like it but theres still a few kinks to work out. I hope I am posting this in the right area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, welcome to android For the lockscreen thing, you have it set up to delay the lock screen 5 minutes after the screen times it, go under your lock screen settings and make sure that where it says "lock instantly with power key" is unchecked. For the email client, I haven't used them as I have made the switch over to having all of my emails as gmail. Have you tried the one pre loaded with the phone? If not then I'm sure a simple search on the market will provide what you need. Just keep in mind that the best part of android is the customizability and the freedom to change everything if you are willing to put in the time!
Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

In regards to an email client, try checking out K9 Mail in the Play Store. I believe a unified inbox is one of its features.

Ghstudent said:
First, welcome to android For the lockscreen thing, you have it set up to delay the lock screen 5 minutes after the screen times it, go under your lock screen settings and make sure that where it says "lock instantly with power key" is unchecked. For the email client, I haven't used them as I have made the switch over to having all of my emails as gmail. Have you tried the one pre loaded with the phone? If not then I'm sure a simple search on the market will provide what you need. Just keep in mind that the best part of android is the customizability and the freedom to change everything if you are willing to put in the time!
Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. Happy to be owning an S3 now. That seems to solve my problem with the lockscreen. Thanks for the tip. I don't know how i messed that. lol As for the email most of my accounts are gmail, but 2 are not. The issue is just switching between 5 different inboxes every time i want to check my mail. I hope google adds unified inbox to gmail soon.
Does anyone recommend any good roms to try out? I would like to run something based on JB, but it still needs to be reliable for the most part it is a daily driver. I would like to add google wallet and check out google now. I do like a few of the features of the stock rom and am curious if anyone is just running a debloated stock rom and installing wallet and google now on that inorder to keep sbeam and a few other features that samsung baked in. If so hows the performance on that?

Welcome to Android, fellow previous iPhone user!
For the multiple emails: if you want to use the gmail client, you just need to add those other accounts to your Gmail. I used to do this with my school's Exchange email and my Gmail.
Basically, Gmail can attach POP3 and I think IMAP, too, accounts. This way you can send and receive from those accounts. It might be called forwarding. Look out up in the gmail settings.
But, if you don't care for archive or priority inbox (gmail specific features), then the default email client can combine inboxes (mine says combined inbox even though I only have one account)...

If you're looking for a stable JB ROM, check out Task650 and Ktoonsez AOKP 4.1.2 or CM10.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

CamFlawless said:
In regards to an email client, try checking out K9 Mail in the Play Store. I believe a unified inbox is one of its features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I have to agree with you on K9. It's unified box is great.
Sent from my AoCP SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

CamFlawless said:
In regards to an email client, try checking out K9 Mail in the Play Store. I believe a unified inbox is one of its features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thanks for the tip. I'll check that out
ikjadoon said:
Welcome to Android, fellow previous iPhone user!
For the multiple emails: if you want to use the gmail client, you just need to add those other accounts to your Gmail. I used to do this with my school's Exchange email and my Gmail.
Basically, Gmail can attach POP3 and I think IMAP, too, accounts. This way you can send and receive from those accounts. It might be called forwarding. Look out up in the gmail settings.
But, if you don't care for archive or priority inbox (gmail specific features), then the default email client can combine inboxes (mine says combined inbox even though I only have one account)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i noticed that the email client that samsung baked in handles combined email well, but i don't think theres a way to use that client if I decide to switch to a custom rom. I'll definiteley check out k9 though.
CamFlawless said:
If you're looking for a stable JB ROM, check out Task650 and Ktoonsez AOKP 4.1.2 or CM10.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just put CM10 on my phone and I was going to spend a few days playing with that, but whats the word on any samsung features being ported to that? I know there arent many that are any good, but I do like sbeam's ability to send larger files (which i think is just wifi direct, correct me if im wrong), gimicky things like the swipe to screenshot, the calendar widget, that picture in picture feature(which i probably will only use twice), and some of those motion options.

You should try and read up over in the development sections. Those gimmicky features built into the S3 stock are from Samsung TouchWiz. CM10 is based on AOSP which is entirely different. So those Samsung features aren't going to be available on CM10, period.
I believe if you spend some time with the new ROM, you'll find yourself without a need for those TouchWiz gimmicks.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

CamFlawless said:
If you're looking for a stable JB ROM, check out Task650 and Ktoonsez AOKP 4.1.2 or CM10.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seconded. Once I found aokp I stopped flashing new roms every couple of weeks.

CamFlawless said:
You should try and read up over in the development sections. Those gimmicky features built into the S3 stock are from Samsung TouchWiz. CM10 is based on AOSP which is entirely different. So those Samsung features aren't going to be available on CM10, period.
I believe if you spend some time with the new ROM, you'll find yourself without a need for those TouchWiz gimmicks.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I'll definitely spend some time with CM10 and see how I like it. I read this morning that Stable releases have started showing up for CM10 for some devices. So hopefully it will be a good daily driver.
Thanks to everyone who responded and gave me suggestions.

Great questions.. I also switched from iPhone after owning every version up to the 4S... I miss it less and less every day. I currently use cm10 nightly build ROM and update every couple nightlies I also use apex launcher because I like the notifications on the icons and ability to rename icons and change their pic.
I missed the simplicity of ios when I got my gs3 2 months ago but after getting familiar and finding solutions for my individual needs I don't miss ios anymore.
I do find being left handed the gs3 too be a little too wide of a form factor and I accidentally hit the volume rocker often. I have contemplated getting a thinner android device but will hate it prob after being use to the screen size... I have been changing things daily and spending a lot of time trying things.. I enjoy it. Feel free to inbox me if you need insight. I use my gs3 for small business and personal needs.. lots of YouTube. Texting...Facebook.. and my scheduling invoicing company has a mobile cloud site I use daily to run business.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

i too made the switch from an iphone 4
dont really miss it all that much since the benefits of swapping out the battery, roms, etc outweigh the simplicity of the iphone
it would be nice if theres a way to scroll to the top of a website like IOS did for many of its apps

Please read forum rules before posting
Questions go in Q&A
Thread moved
Thank You for your cooperation
Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

I am so far enjoying the CM10 Release although honestly I miss a couple features in the touchwiz rom. I'm kind of torn. I definitely want to try out the JB OTA update and see if its enough for me to settle. The features I'm torn over are:
CM10 Pros:
Always up to date regardless of carrier holdups(bugs are fixed quickly)
a lot of additional options that allow me to fine tune the experience far beyond what is allowed in touchwiz
overall the phone is MUCH smoother without occastional hangups and whatnot(but im not sure how much of that is just the improvements of JB)
Google Now
improved notifications
pure google experience without all the touchwiz stuff slowing things down
love the sms app vs the samsung app(much cleaner and faster in my opinion and I don't like the market alternatives for sms they feel just as slow and cumbersome to me. The only one that comes close to being acceptable is gosms)
the sms popup is really nice even though it doesn't always work perfect
prefer the lockscreen style to that of the ripple effect on touchwiz
Touchwiz Pros:
Sbeam(only because my brother and a few close friends all picked up an S3 and I have been using this feature a lot with them)
Samsung Calendar widget(for some reason really like this specific widget)
I like the camera interface a little better in the touchwiz
The best shot feature in the camera is nice
strangely enough I have come to like the voice control with the alarm clock and phone calls
Smart Alert is nice but ive noticed its randomly going off while im in a phone call which is kind of annoying
I enjoy using the swipe to screenshot
I like the notification icons that are on the lockscreen for quick access to missed notifications
May just be a bug but I don't seem to get LTE service properly on the CM10 rom
Again I'm torn between the two but I've realized the only things that I'm clinging to in touchwiz are pretty much small interface things or gimmicky features that could possibly be solved with other apps from the market. I would like to try the JB touchwiz rom when it releases and see if it is enough to appease me but I don't want to give up my root and risk not getting that back if I don't like it and want back to CM10. What do you guys think?