Related
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
RC-RT Mission Statement
As Recognized Contributors/Themers, we are challenged with the purpose of aiding development, offering assistance and above all, embodying the Spirit of XDA.
Contributing to XDA-Developers is more than simply delivering ROMs, mods and themes and by posting and behaving in a modest and exemplary way, we aim to influence and encourage other users to conduct themselves with friendliness and co-operation.
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-------------------------------------------
So over on the Recognized Contributors forum, it has become clear that most members of XDA don't know that you can apply for the title of Recognized Contributor (RC). I have also included the same for Recognized themer, as I am assuming that it's not well known that you can apply.
What is a Recognized Contributor?
Recognized Contributor is a role intended for members who produce some of the best original and helpful guides for users, as well as helping other users who have problems, in a friendly manner. Recognized Contributors will get a custom user title and the faster ad-free XDA template, as well as access to developer tools currently being created. Any Moderator and or Status-ed Holder on XDA can forward a Nomination to the Committee, should they feel the Individual is deserving of this Status.What is a Recognized Themer?
Recognized Themers are those users who work (often tirelessly) on designing new theme graphics and user interface overhauls for ROMs. Users who aspire to be Recognized Themers should be creating original graphics work for their themes being released, demonstrate a commitment to crediting other users’ work when applicable, and seek the relevant permission in advance from the original creator. Recognized Themers will receive a custom user title and the faster ad-free XDA template, as well as access to developer tools currently being created. Any Moderator and or Status-ed Holder on XDA can forward a Nomination to the Committee, should they feel the Individual is deserving of this Status.Pre-requisites
1. Be a member for at least 1 year (following the XDA rules) with consistent and acceptable activity, upon review with the discretion of the Committee of acceptable months. Usually, 6-8 activity is acceptable.
2. Posted good original threads:
a. Threads that are guides/index/collective information.
b. OP of ROM threads and have good support within the ROM thread or via a separate thread in the Q&A section, and some activity in the Q&A section or other threads besides their own.
c. Place holder threads (discussions of home screens/ wallpapers / Off-Topic, etc) are NOT accepted.
Exception: A proper place holder for a new phone with details and other important information and further maintaining the Q&A on the device.
3. In case of no independent threads, the following may be accepted:
a. An FAQ (or support post) within a ROM thread.
b. Generally moving around from thread to thread to help members – the "Post Count Vs Thanks" could be used as a means to measure this.
4. Good quality general know-how around XDA forums (not necessarily developer standard)
5. Thanks count broadly expected given the forums they are in.
6. Posted regularly enough (complementing point 1) to provide continuous support or less frequently but good high-value support
7. Contribute to a good overall general atmosphere.
8. You have read, understood, and already adhere to the Updated 11/19/2018 Recognized Contributor Code of Conduct: https://www.xda-developers.com/recognized-contributor-code-of-conduct/
How can I apply?
NOTE: Please do not bother to apply if you have created accounts purely to boost your "thanks" count, if you got your buddies to thank all your posts or any other method of boosting thanks! We will know! If you have done this and still wish to apply please note this in your application and your honesty will be taken into account. An RC sets the example for following the rules..one of which is do not make more than one account!
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You can apply by sending your application via PM to:
A member of the RC-RT Committee:
Az BikerMr. Clownkarandprorangekid TNSMANI Clark Joseph Kent LeadRC-RT Liaison PG101
Any other Senior Moderator
Any FSM.
Any existing RC, who will pass on your application forward.
Choose whichever route you are more comfortable with, the end result is the same. All list of moderators can be found here.
The best way in which to apply through your PM
When you are writing your application, you will need to include:
A polite hello
Your username with a link to your username will want to check your history.
Why do you think you would make a good RC/RT, including a little about your time on XDA.
Links to your work including Guides, Ref, Roms, Projects, Apps(Themes for RT), etc
Do not forget to include 7/10 links of threads/posts which would be helpful in assessing your application.
A thank you for their time and goodbye (Manners are free)
Please note only apply once to one committee members, do not send 3 applications to 3 different committee members. Also be patient, the committee members are very busy people and have other work on XDA and in personal life. I would recommend a waiting time of upto a week; and if you receive no response within a week, then a reminder PM.
Please do not bombard the committee with PM's.
If you are having a problem with your application or you would like to appeal a decision made on your application, then you can contact the RC-RT Committee through PM.
If you do get accepted as an RC/RT then please come and visit the RC's forum and help contribute to our work and cause to make XDA a better place
If you have any questions then please ask, I or the other RC's/RT's will help in anyway we can.
PG101 said:
Hiya
...
(quote edited by Zatta)
...
The general criteria is that a member should have been helpful, courteous and active commensurate to the forum one is mostly in. You will need to be an active member of XDA for 12 months or more.
While applying, please include 7-10 links/threads/posts that you think will help us decide on your application, effectively.
Cheers and good luck
PG101
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WHAT THIS THREAD IS NOT: A PLACE FOR PRE-ASSESSMENTS.
PG101 said:
I am not liking all this speculation about "do I qualify..?" "what do I need.." and more so that the current RCs are feeding these with actual answers.
I urge all of you to refrain from asking this particular question, its almost becoming like asking for an ETA on a rom thread.. you know how that goes?
If you feel you are ready, apply.. that's all there is to it and if you donot get accepted, I am sure you will be given reasons. You may discuss here how you can improve your contributions to be accepted again.
Cheers!
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Fallen Spartan said:
Guys/Gals, I don't see this as a thread to evaluate others or to give hints and tips for others to achieve RC status. If a person is suitable , let the mods review them. They can read the OP and know the criteria required. I'm concerned that this thread has become a training ground and the RC pool is becoming diluted.
If a user cannot read or know what the criteria is, then, imho, they don't have the criteria required
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s/S-Mods/Senior Moderators/
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA
If you have questions, please ask here or ask one of the Recognized Contributors or Recognized Themers in your forum if you feel more comfortable with them.
Do we have to have guides and such to be eligible?
I Am Marino said:
Do we have to have guides and such to be eligible?
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Not always, some RC's have been given the title for their work on roms, kernels e.t.c, and some for being very nice to other members, helping out on their device specific forum.
Thanks for this!!! I'm going to apply now
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Hmm maybe I should apply, although I'm not sure if I am considered good enough xD
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
DarkhShadow said:
Hmm maybe I should apply, although I'm not sure if I am considered good enough xD
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
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Unfortunately search is still down so I can't look to see if you have started any guide threads or your other activity, but if you feel like you contribute more than the average user, then go ahead and apply and the mods will check and let you know if they feel like you qualify, or they will suggest other things to do to get there.
mf2112 said:
Unfortunately search is still down so I can't look to see if you have started any guide threads or your other activity, but if you feel like you contribute more than the average user, then go ahead and apply and the mods will check and let you know if they feel like you qualify, or they will suggest other things to do to get there.
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Well I sent a message to Chainfire and no I haven't done guides but I have helped a fair bit more than most members I see.
I haven't done any guides because any of the things I could do one about already have stickies/threads
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
DarkhShadow said:
Well I sent a message to Chainfire and no I haven't done guides but I have helped a fair bit more than most members I see.
I haven't done any guides because any of the things I could do one about already have stickies/threads
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
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Yeah, I know what you mean, my phone is the HTC Sensation and it is reaching a point of maturity where most ideas for guides and threads and such have been done. Several friends have asked for ideas and it is really hard to find new niches to fill in that forum.
Sometimes it is possible to find abandoned threads and then do a new thread to replace it, but that takes time to get the links to that thread replaced with your own so people stop going to that old thread.
Another possibility is to find a guide or thread where the original poster has moved on to a new phone, and then contact the forum admin to request that the thread ownership be transferred. If the OP is willing then that is an easy process. You don't get to keep their thanks from that thread however. :-/
Another possibility is to do the guide in a different format. If there is a text guide on how to install a firmware+ROM, then do a video guide, or do a better text guide with screenshots.
Well its worse for the Nexus S as pretty much anything is easy to do, ie unlocking bootloader and install a custom recovery, from there its 90% flashing things
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
Thanks for this. I think I am going to apply not sure if I have done enough by helping out as much as I have.
tazfanatic said:
Thanks for this. I think I am going to apply not sure if I have done enough by helping out as much as I have.
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Good Luck!
Howdy!
May I ask if some members can be suggested to be attributed a RC status? Obviously, I can not summarize for them, only point the deciders to them/their posts.
TIA! Have a nice one all!
Lucky Thirteen said:
Howdy!
May I ask if some members can be suggested to be attributed a RC status? Obviously, I can not summarize for them, only point the deciders to them/their posts.
TIA! Have a nice one all!
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Sure, you can suggest, but the best way is to give them the link to this thread, or this article, and tell them to write to one of the senior mods and list their qualifications and why they believe they should be recognized.
Great thread! Applied.
geko95gek said:
Great thread! Applied.
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Congrats you got it, come and visit these to HERE and HERE, who did you apply to. Also i would imagine if you made another theme, you could applyto become a Recognized themer also.
s.d.oconnor said:
Congrats you got it, come and visit these to HERE and HERE, who did you apply to. Also i would imagine if you made another theme, you could applyto become a Recognized themer also.
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Done and done!
It was my good ol'buddy pulser_g2 that added me, he was surprised why I haven't been added already lol
If I do come up with another theme then I shall definitely apply for Recognized themer. I have worked on a few themes already with others.
I hope I had read this one before...(I.e. thank you, op)
Though, I asked my device's fsm, and he assured me that he'll forward my application to senior mods...
Hope I can make it
Typed using a small touchscreen
Ha I just found this thread, good idea to explain how to apply for RC status. I imagine I am the reason s.d.oconnor got the idea for this thread cause it is clear by my post in the RC Chat forum that I had no idea you could apply for RC status. I even mention it in the PM I sent to apply for RC.
If s.d.oconnor would like I still have a copy of that PM if he would like to post it as a example PM for others to view. I also think we might want to get authorization from the higher ups too before posting it just to make sure that is ok.
One last thing, it says in tthe OP to place a link to your profile in you PM. This is not needed as your user name above your avatar in the PM, just as in forum posts, is a link to your profile page. So it is already a link to your profile in the PM.
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
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Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Click to collapse
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
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I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Hi all members of XDA,
whilst we as RC's do our very best to keep XDA as organized as possible by giving you all kind of solutions, like the Q&A/T Template project, the Index project and the Ask Away help project etc etc, these were all RC initiated projects. Although all of these projects were started with the best intentions, I realize now that we never asked what you as users wanted to keep XDA organized. By starting this thread, I want to ask you all, members of XDA, to ventilate your opinions what's missing on XDA and what you really want to accomplish your needs. I could start a poll for that, but I do not feel the need for that at this very moment. I always can start a poll after most wanted needs posted, but for now I only want to know what's living in our community and what is needed in your opinions that is missing at this very moment. Really hope that you will react on this post as much as possible, so I can see what you really need/miss . All reactions will be answered by me (or, hopefully, fellow RC's) and, based on your reactions, I will start a new thread regarding your wishes, based on the most mentioned issue. If there are more important issues, there will be started of course more threads to cope with these "issues".
Everbody, from junior member, member, senior member and also RC's/RD's, are invited to react.
kindest regards and hoping for a lot of reactions, kuzibri
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Art Vanderlay said:
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option so they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will have a thorough look into that, cause I still think that the Q&A/T template thread is a very good way to organize XDA.
kindest regards, kuzbri
Delete
Art Vanderlay said:
Delete
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Click to collapse
Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
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Click to collapse
I know my friend and most of them are useless and senseless. That's why I think we should restart the Q&A/T project. I know we have to approach dev's to join this project, but when we are able to convince, certainly the dev's linked to devdb, that this is a dead end street, we stand a good chance. Only restriction IMO is the willingness of other RC's help to restart this project again. Will you join Art and me? IMO this is the only way to prove that it was not a good idea by XDA to start these bot threads with no personal OP. I'm still willing to create a lot of Q&A/T threads as possible when we can dev's prove that this is the way to keep their original dev thread as clean as possible and XDA as organized as possible.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Q&A/T Template project
Hi,
already send a PM to a non-devdb related dev to join our Q&A/T project. Let's see what happens:fingers-crossed:.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Darth said:
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Darth said:
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
Trafalgar Square said:
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
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Click to collapse
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Click to expand...
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I am not sure about this but DevDB Q&A bots are gone.
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, with no real intention of actually getting it, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I highly doubt any change in the foreseeable future. In a couple years, I envision XDA as a wasteland of Root Bounty threads and people complaining about Xposed not working.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with this 100 percent. Also IMHO the post rule should be raised to 100 posts before posts in development. If they can contribute have them message the OP and if the OP thinks they can contribute then lift the limit for said user on said thread. I cannot tell you how many threads I just don't even bother reading after seeing a couple posts than are just as easily answered by googling questions.
Often even new R&D threads are just placeholders where people hope a "dev" will come chime in and then they can piggy back off of that. The whole culture has changed and its horrible and sad to see this. Also there is very little structure or general polling of those that drive the ideas and development this site thrives on. I definitely get the feeling the site is moving more towards generating traffic and less towards being a content driven site.
Sadly I think a lot of people are on board with the change.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I understand your disappointment and frustration. Since we both joined XDA in 2008, XDA has grown to such a very large community that it needs very clear rules to be maintaned/managed as best as possible. Therefore it is for XDA not possible anymore to keep every member satisfied. Of course a lot has changed, sometimes leading to better results and sometimes not, but that's the reality. Besides that, the amount of different devices has grown enourmously, making the work of Mods, Admins and even higher not easier. I still see and know a lot of competent users who are willing to contribute to this community. I also know a lot of Mods and Admins with the best intentions to make XDA better. In summary: the purpose of this thread is to get/receive new ideas how to make XDA better organized in the future and/or add features to XDA that are now missing. That's my mission.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Hi All Dear XDA Members,
As most of you will know, I'm XDA addict and active member who started a lot of threads in order to try to keep XDA as organized as possible (see: the Q&A/T thread template: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46281795&postcount=4, which also contains the links to the Index project and the Ask Away help thread). Yet, I noticed that XDA has become so huge that it's grown out of it's "jacket". It became a forum which looks like a "forest which can not been seen because of all the trees". Newcomers can hardly find their way in this forest, ( They still keep registering to our forum but hardly post anything, let alone that they will start a thread) even more experienced users have difficulties or stop develeloping new ROM's and/or Threads. The layout of XDA is, speaking in modern terms, old fashioned at this very moment and if there will be no facelift within a short while, XDA is IMHO doomed to follow certain social media, who are loosing a lot of followers at this very moment. If you are familiar with social media, you know exactly which media I'm referring too. So, that's the reason I started this thread: How can we resuscitate XDA, cause that's what's needed, to be and stay future proof? IMHO, XDA is one of the, if not the, most important Smartphone forum and it should stay that forever, but changes are needed to achieve this. One of the changes could be a chat function, but most of all there needs to become a new a structure of how XDA is build up untill now. I'm convinced that the XDA staff is aware of this and working very hard to keep XDA future-proof. As it is now, it will be very hard to compete with the modern social media applications. I'm a diehard fan of XDA and that's why I started this thread. Making XDA future proof will be a hell of a job and therefore the staff of XDA can use IMO input from members, like you and me. Just plain and simple: I ask you all to come with information, suggestions and ideas how to make XDA future proof. Help the staff of XDA in this huge project of keeping it alive , kicking and well. Vbulletin is not the most ideal platform anymore, we need something else (see Reddit, etc).
kindest reards, kuzibri
BTW1: I do not suggest that XDA should use the Reddit platform or something the like
BTW2: A more social media approach would and could benefit XDA in the near future.
BTW3: I'm a great fan of the XDA Labs app for Android. Maybe an idea as a starting point?
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
This forum has grown MASSIVELY since it was first started back in 2002. I think we now have over 6.6 million members. The vbulletin forum platform was never really intended to handle such a large amount of content or userbase.
We've been on the vbulletin forum platform for a long time now. We've made a large amount of custom modifications, plugins, and tweaks, in order to add a lot of what you see in the forums today. A lot of it is the things you don't see behind the scenes. The massive amounts of custom coding that has been done, that cannot be easily transferred to other systems.
Of course we are aware that the forums are at breaking point in terms of capacity of both content and users. And of course other platform configurations are becoming more popular, with sites such as Reddit. But making a switch to another platform would be a massive massive undertaking. It's not like we can just copy and paste the database.
We are aware that this type of platform is aging, and needs to be kept a little more up to date. And I know the owners are well aware of all of this. It's not that they don't care. They do, more than anything. XDA is their baby, they are heavily invested in it, and they want it to keep growing and to remain the world's premier Smartphone development forums.
I don't know much personally, but I do know there are long term plans to look at updating or switching platforms, to better accommodate the sheer amount of users, and the large amount of valuable content. it will come, but due to the sheer scale of the task, it's going to be a very long term project for the owners I'd say.
MishaalRahman said:
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
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I have some ideas which are not ready yet to be posted/published, that's why I started this thread, hoping to get some usefull information and ideas.
BTW, it's not only the layout that needs an update, but the entire structure of XDA in order to stay future proof.
kindest regards, kuzibri
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
svetius said:
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
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yes a chat product is needed
The messaging part is very complicted for me till now
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
Webern said:
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
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We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
Darth said:
We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
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Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
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Hi my dearest friend,
I realy think that you are perfectly fit to be a moderator, but it's of course up to you. I just suggested a new way of appointing Mod's and recommended you and Robbie'for the job. I really think that good and active RC's can become a Mod without going to the whole XDA process that's needed to become one. They are very short of Mod's, so make the process easier for active RC's.
BTW, I have all the time in the world since I retired a few months ago!!
kindest regards, kuzibri
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
kuzibri said:
Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
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Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
Darth said:
Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
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Hi,
thanks for the lenghty explanation, all clear. Was just a suggestion to solve the shortage of Mod's in an easy and fast way.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Robbie P said:
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
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Yes my very dear friend, I'm still around. Due to the shortage of Mod's @Darth mentioned, I proposed to make the most active and valuable RC's a Mod without going to the entire XDA process that's needed for that. But as you can read by the answer of @Darth this is no possibility at all. IMHO, they missed the "train" in that by staying to their rules (which of course I can understand fully), cause, also IMHO, very good RC's (they are not appointed as Recognized Contributors for nothing and this title is closely related to and in line with the work of Mod's, e.g. helping people to find the right way or reacting on wrong posts by reporting them, only Mod's have much more power) are also capable of becoming good Mod's with a newly developed guidance/manual from the Mod's committee what are the demands for an RC to become a Mod in this new way. Maybe this idea is too revolutenary at this very moment, but the saying is: "when you do not shoot, you can also not miss". Of course, when this suggestion would be accepted, the Mod's committee should keep a close eye on these RC's and look if they are fit to be a Mod or not, if not, they will be an RC again. Seems logical to me,
kindest regards, kuzibri
Suggestions
Hi all,
any other suggestions to make XDA future proof?? Cause at this very moment XDA is, certainly for new members, a labyrinth. In general, even despite the introduction of XDA Assist, they cannot find their way to what they are looking for, so XDA needs to become more accessible and easier to navigate. In fact the entire site should be redesigned, but due to the massiveness of this site, this is an unrealistic task, unfortunately.
kindest regards, kuzibri
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
zelendel said:
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
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Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
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Really? How many devs do you see having conversations that mean anything with users? One of the biggest complaints from devs are the users. Mostly due to the fact that they won't do anything for themselves. Why do you think most teams use things like slack, or telegram (the devs don't really even talk much there in the public rooms, they have private ones set up in the side to talk shop) when I say dev I mean the real devs. Not script kiddies and compile jockies.
That is what xda stood for. It is no longer that way.
Nothing is future proof. Never has been never will be. It will end just like the days of freely modding your device. It all ends.
Hi my very dear friends,
no more new ideas or suggestions how to keep XDA future proof? It's my personal idea that the interest in posting on XDA is rapidly diminishing. If true, this would be a very disappointing way to handle XDA. It meant and still means IMHO a lot for members and newbies to be informed about the latest innovations regarding smartphones and giving them details about it. Also for helping people to get out of trouble with their device or solve other problems, XDA is the place to be. Whenever there are no reactions to this post within two weeks, I will ask a friendly Mod to close this thread. The reason for this is the presumable lack of interest in this subject and thereby there exists no need anymore to continue it nor to keep monitoring it.
kindest regards, kuzibri