I currently have the Epic touch but my friend is getting the S3, is it worth me buying her Epic touch for $100? Its maybe 6 months old.
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inkdup102586 said:
I currently have the Epic touch but my friend is getting the S3, is it worth me buying her Epic touch for $100? Its maybe 6 months old.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely worth it. It still goes for 250 used.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
It ain't bad for a 100 bucks. it s worth it
Yea I'd say its worth it.
Sprint will give less than 75 for it with the buyback program.
oscarthegrouch said:
Sprint will give less than 75 for it with the buyback program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why you don't use sprints buyback. Craigslist or ebay or swappa are the best route, if you don't sign up for best buys buyback. Best buy does sliding scale based on age of device and current retail. The evo4g was getting $325 when the s3 came out at best buys buyback and 275 when the note 2 dropped.
I like to break stuff!
inkdup102586 said:
I currently have the Epic touch but my friend is getting the S3, is it worth me buying her Epic touch for $100? Its maybe 6 months old.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tell you now
once you experience epic 4g touch...
its too epic to leave the development
Especially the "Blu Kuban" had it since day 1, I flashed others but always came back to this rom
Once you root
YOU must try that ROM
Anyways
Welcome
You currently have the Epic Touch and want to know if it's worth buying a second Epic Touch from your friend? Why do you need a second one?
TurboFool said:
You currently have the Epic Touch and want to know if it's worth buying a second Epic Touch from your friend? Why do you need a second one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can think of quite a few reasons to have a second one. Especially for $100. Your question is pretty lame.
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TurboFool said:
You currently have the Epic Touch and want to know if it's worth buying a second Epic Touch from your friend? Why do you need a second one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spare parts, a backup, second line, because he feels like it. Enough reasons for you?
I like to break stuff!
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Spare parts, a backup, second line, because he feels like it. Enough reasons for you?
I like to break stuff!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget that he can also make between $100 to $200 in profit if he resells it. Can also be used as a test system for ROM's before he flashes to his daily driver. He can use it to dev with or learn how to dev.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
graydiggy said:
Don't forget that he can also make between $100 to $200 in profit if he resells it. Can also be used as a test system for ROM's before he flashes to his daily driver. He can use it to dev with or learn how to dev.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hell he can use it for a clay pigeon and go skeet shooting for all I care. He doesn't need to explain his purchases to us random jerks on the interwebz.
I like to break stuff!
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Hell he can use it for a clay pigeon and go skeet shooting for all I care. He doesn't need to explain his purchases to us random jerks on the interwebz.
I like to break stuff!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he (or she) is asking if it's worth buying, then the motivation for WHY the person's buying it is, indeed, reasonable to ask. Otherwise how can I give an informed answer?
Seriously, if the person merely started a thread and said, "I'm going to buy a second Epic 4G Touch," and I responded with my questions, the surprisingly rude responses to my question would be justified as it would, indeed, be none of my business. But when a person actually ASKS our advice on whether or not the purchase is worth it without a shred of supporting data, it's COMPLETELY acceptable to ask them why they want to buy it before I give my answer. Their motive WILL change the answer.
Just thought it would be good to have a spare.... lol.
Was possibly thinking of flashing it to boost or something.
If you don't buy it, I will.
Pp.:beer::beer::thumbup:
sent from a jellybean filled epic touch.
I'd definitely do it
-EViL-KoNCEPTz- said:
Hell he can use it for a clay pigeon and go skeet shooting for all I care. He doesn't need to explain his purchases to us random jerks on the interwebz.
I like to break stuff!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't believe it's actually called skeet shooting, lol. The closest I've been to doing that is watching porn.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
I'll sell mine for less then that
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I just sold one for 140$ in good condition but it was missing the earphone\vibrator\led part that can be bought for $11.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Febby said:
I just sold one for 140$ in good condition but it was missing the earphone\vibrator\led part that can be bought for $11.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you sold your on ebay or craig list?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
Related
This isn't related to the Epic as much as it is to Sprint. I might have mentioned my mom works at Sprint. I live in Kansas City. A lot of people here work for Sprint. But, one of my best friends just got an awesome job there. Product Development and Testing. You all know what that means.
More idiotic rumors?
Sent from my Transformer TF101
slightly more informed speculation?
He said he would get a new phone every 4-8 weeks. It just means sometimes I might be able to help people decide if they should wait to use their update.
LOL, it's a Family Affair.... seriously tho congrats and keep the info coming
Thanks, and just remember, it wasn't a Dev that got the leaked LOS fix, it was someone like yourself helping out the community any way the can. If your friend wants to donate the old ones.....
kc_exactly said:
This isn't related to the Epic as much as it is to Sprint. I might have mentioned my mom works at Sprint. I live in Kansas City. A lot of people here work for Sprint. But, one of my best friends just got an awesome job there. Product Development and Testing. You all know what that means.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually i work for sprint as well and they just made it so employees r upgrade eligable every 6 months.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Be careful who you accuse of being nice...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I need to get a job at sprint, or Tmo, VZW....
phatmanxxl said:
I need to get a job at sprint, or Tmo, VZW....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+100
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fabs109 said:
Actually i work for sprint as well and they just made it so employees r upgrade eligable every 6 months.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
isnt sprint rewards me awesome!? too bad i declined the employee plan back when they wouldnt let us have evos for ~6 months...
Ha ha I get a new phone that often and I don't work for Sprint
sent from my Epic 4g Touch
coldblooded79 said:
Ha ha I get a new phone that often and I don't work for Sprint
sent from my Epic 4g Touch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How? I'm mad jealous everyone can just upgrade their phones like that ;/
Its easy..... When you have three lines and friends that are clueless on how to use there phone and you use there upgrade. Or by them out right. 600.00 bones is a drop in the hat for some.
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coldblooded79 said:
Ha ha I get a new phone that often and I don't work for Sprint
sent from my Epic 4g Touch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too
Epic-ly tapped from my Galaxy SII
I know someone too who works in that dept. Those people don't just hand out builds.. You know they are held by contract not to leak, and in this economy, you expect this?
spdwiz18 said:
Its easy..... When you have three lines and friends that are clueless on how to use there phone and you use there upgrade. Or by them out right. 600.00 bones is a drop in the hat for some.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I got my OG Evo on release day June 3, 2010. Since that day Ive had and Evo, Evo3D, E4Gt and a Skyrocket. lol
spdwiz18 said:
Its easy..... When you have three lines and friends that are clueless on how to use there phone and you use there upgrade. Or by them out right. 600.00 bones is a drop in the hat for some.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I do.
I get people to join sprint, they get my used phone or buy buy it cheap, and I get the latest for the reduced price and what ever I sold my last phone for. Everybody wins here in this case. Although I did buy my EVO 4g full price with a credit card, I can't justify spending 500+ on a phone ill only use for 3 to 6 months.
I live out in independence. I got a buddy who works at sprint but hes tech support. Nice to see some locals on here
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Galaxy Nexus rumors and speculation pleaaassssee!!! K thanks!
Any looking to buy a soft bricked Epic 4G touch? I have already bought another Epic and I just don't feel like paying the jig or paying for a new one. ESN is good and phone worked well before.
So....buying another Epic was cheaper then a jig? Sounds like a hard brick to me.
Actually, I bought two at the same time one from Sprint and the other from someone who bought a Motorola Photon 4G. They both worked and one was justy rooted. I have no reason to lie. Plus I'll agree to a return
shaun2173 said:
Actually, I bought two at the same time one from Sprint and the other from someone who bought a Motorola Photon 4G. They both worked and one was justy rooted. I have no reason to lie. Plus I'll agree to a return
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm messing with you man. Assuming the Esn is good I'll spread the word
How much you selling it for?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
Rob4828, I just sent you a private message
Rob4828 said:
How much you selling it for?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I second the question? I'm looking for a testing device myself.
Yeah, having a testing device would be nice.
I would like to sell the device for $300.00 but I know that a jig has to be done on the device, so I will like to ask for $250.00. I am willing to negotiate, if you private message me. I am willing to offer a return, if unhappy.
Completely willing to negotiate on price
What you mean by soft brick can you explain please
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Sounds sketchy. You won't spend 5$ on a jig but you'll take 50$ off the price?
That logic is fundamentally flawed.
This should also be in the market place, right?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
I can buy bricks for pennies at the hardware shop
I just got off the phone with a rep dealing with bla bla bla on my phone then i started a convo about the SG3. I told him i am no where near due for a upgrade but i would love to get the phone he stated that sprint has a new buy out program. just to sum it up, sprint would buy my phone back from me ET4G ( in perfect condition)for 300 bucks for right now he said value might drop alil when SG3 release but it should be close to that. I think sprint is pretty cool for sprint to buy back my close to what i want ( unless someone on CL would pay more ) to help me get a new phone without upgrading. hope this helps anyone
Late by 6 months or so.
Sent from my EPIC TOUCH!
ubigred said:
Late by 6 months or so.
Sent from my EPIC TOUCH!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really i thought sprints only plan was to buy your way out of the contract. smh my mom always did say i was special
On sprint's website the buy out value for our phone is 105$...
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https://secure.sprintbuyback.com/cns/node/5
oscarthegrouch said:
https://secure.sprintbuyback.com/cns/node/5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bb bold with no camera is 10 bucks more.....
locoboi187 said:
On sprint's website the buy out value for our phone is 105$...
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No way I would let sprint have this phone for only that amount. What a rip off
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AJC9000 said:
The bb bold with no camera is 10 bucks more.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol wow smh
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Sprint has had Buyback for years now, they just recently started pushing it harder.
I can safely say that the buyback value on the E4GT is not $300, it's $105 like a previous poster said.
You can trade it in at THE SHACK and get $300: http://radioshack.cexchange.com/online/home/index.rails
There may be a deal for it, close to $300, when the sg3 drops.. I remember when the evo3d came out, they had a deal where they bought back your original evo for $150, which was a pretty good for that old of a phone.
Nice that radio shack trade in the e4gt is 300 I will take that offer n pay retail price for the sg3 when it comes out
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qubanaso said:
Nice that radio shack trade in the e4gt is 300 I will take that offer n pay retail price for the sg3 when it comes out
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't count on getting anything close to that once the sg3 is out, or even the evo lte for that matter. Once this phone is not top of the line that price will plummet.
Gordon Ramsay said:
I wouldn't count on getting anything close to that once the sg3 is out, or even the evo lte for that matter. Once this phone is not top of the line that price will plummet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The price is already plummeting because of how slow and behind the times sprint is. I'm soon to sell my e4gt and swap to a gsm model and it looks like the gsm versions go for about 100 more. Kind of sad.
oscarthegrouch said:
https://secure.sprintbuyback.com/cns/node/5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not the program they're talking about. That is the buyback value for recycling the old device. Not the amount to pay to get out of a contract.
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I just realized I qualified for an upgrade since april. I was thinking it was in augest.
Anyway, I wanna buy a new phone. I really don't want to sell my epic because I love it and I just want a new phone to keep on the side and not to actually use. So my number would stay on the epic and I would get a newer phone for my music and games and stuff. I don't think anyone would do this but I am lol I need my keyboard.
So I was thinking gs3 or epic touch.
But just incase I have to pay an amount of money that I don't have and I would have to give up my epic to get a newer phone would sprint buy this phone from me for a reasonable price? Like let's say $100?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
I think Sprint will give your around $30-35 dollars.
You will get much more if you sell it online or some such.
You can use your upgrade to get a new Phone, probably around $200, and just not activate it, and then you can keep using your Epic.
Thanks said, if your Epic is in working order, and has a clean ESN, I would give you $100 for it.
DCRocks said:
I think Sprint will give your around $30-35 dollars.
You will get much more if you sell it online or some such.
You can use your upgrade to get a new Phone, probably around $200, and just not activate it, and then you can keep using your Epic.
Thanks said, if your Epic is in working order, and has a clean ESN, I would give you $100 for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I was thinking I may sell it online. And I also have an extra battery for it. Its the same as its stock one.
I'm going to go to the sprint store sometime soon and see what phones they have there and what they offer.
if I have to sell my phone to get a new one I may sell it for about $100. Ill let you know if you want it. And yes its in perfect condition I don't remember dropping it not even once and everything works.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
You can't use an upgrade and not activate the phone.
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They give you $50 (at least they did for my mom's) and recycle it.... bad ESN or not, it is all the same...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
MДЯCЦSДИT said:
They give you $50 (at least they did for my mom's) and recycle it.... bad ESN or not, it is all the same...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on condition as well I know I can get 45$ for mine that's with the small dent on the bottom and surface scratch marks.
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xjayman said:
You can't use an upgrade and not activate the phone.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seriously? They won't just give me it in a box and let me "activate" it later?
MДЯCЦSДИT said:
They give you $50 (at least they did for my mom's) and recycle it.... bad ESN or not, it is all the same...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's not worth selling it. Ill try and sell it online if I have to.
The GSIII is looking really nice in blue lol.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
lilajrestnom said:
seriously? They won't just give me it in a box and let me "activate" it later?
And that's not worth selling it. Ill try and sell it online if I have to.
The GSIII is looking really nice in blue lol.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The upgrade discount is only valid if it's activated on a renewed contract. No activation means no discount.
Sent from my SPH-D700 CM9 RC1 4.0.4
Zeinzu said:
The upgrade discount is only valid if it's activated on a renewed contract. No activation means no discount.
Sent from my SPH-D700 CM9 RC1 4.0.4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I would have to activate then switch phones? That should work, right?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
After you activate a new/upgrade account, that phone must remain active on that line for 6 months. (might be 3) This is why I use GVoice. I have 4 lines and me and wifey trade up renewals with 2 of the lines.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
MДЯCЦSДИT said:
They give you $50 (at least they did for my mom's) and recycle it.... bad ESN or not, it is all the same...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprint doesn't allow buy backs of any of their devices which have dirty ESNS. Corporate retail employees who do this sort of thing can and will be subjected to disciplinary action of up to and including termination of employment. I know this personally from seeing about half a dozen of employees in our DM's market promoted to customer. You have to remember people that Sprint has a report on just about anything you do in RMS and are able to drill down to employee ID level.
They wanted to give me $60 for mine when I upgraded, but I decided to keep it and try selling it for a little more private.
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BubZX said:
They wanted to give me $60 for mine when I upgraded, but I decided to keep it and try selling it for a little more private.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude on craigslist i've seen them go for 150+
XxLostSoulxX said:
dude on craigslist i've seen them go for 150+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too....in 2010
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Just got a text from Sprint stating they will give me $56 for my Epic..
I laughed!
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xjayman said:
Me too....in 2010
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My brother just got 120 for his... without any accessories or a charger...
flastnoles11 said:
My brother just got 120 for his... without any accessories or a charger...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair...100 to 125 I think is fair for both parties
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
xjayman said:
Me too....in 2010
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha no over here in Dallas their selling them for around 300$ and actually selling them for those prices so i'd day they can go around for those prices.
XxLostSoulxX said:
haha no over here in Dallas their selling them for around 300$ and actually selling them for those prices so i'd day they can go around for those prices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I'll ship you mine to sell ....I've been upgrade eligible since may but I like my phone. When I do upgrade I'm keeping my epic as backup instead of tep. if anything happens to new phone after first year I'll break this bad boy back out.
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xjayman said:
Maybe I'll ship you mine to sell ....I've been upgrade eligible since may but I like my phone. When I do upgrade I'm keeping my epic as backup instead of tep. if anything happens to new phone after first year I'll break this bad boy back out.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly why I don't wanna have to sell this phone I just love it lol.
But seriously if I get an upgrade I have to use that phone for the first 6 months??? I can't believe that cuz they can't just tie me to one phone. What if I bought another phone I'm not allowed to use that?
I was really wanting to buy the g23. But I think the epic touch wouldn't be bad either. And its 100 dollars cheaper. But its a shame that both the epic and the epic touch cost 100 with a new contract lol.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
When? With gs4 soon I want the gn2 as it should be cheap
Anyone know of any deals
colonel.shepard said:
When? With gs4 soon I want the gn2 as it should be cheap
Anyone know of any deals
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) it hasn't even been released yet.
2) it won't release here until after it does over seas (international).
3) the price won't even drop since this is not the gs3...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
ac16313 said:
1) it hasn't even been released yet.
2) it won't release here took after it does over seas
3) the price might not drop since this is not the gs3...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Galaxy s4 has already been released since Wednesday.
Sent from my Baked 4.2.2 P-3113
mr pnut said:
Galaxy s4 has already been released since Wednesday.
Sent from my Baked 4.2.2 P-3113
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Release where?
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
yellowman82 said:
Release where?
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad I misread the op but sprint should have it next month hopefully.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
Ok im really sorry but I dont ****ing get this there are 100 threads about if we are going to switch to gs4 or all that crap this phone has nothing to with galaxy line not even close I dont know why people asking all this question and what makes you ****ing think that with gs4 coming out they are going to drop the price, I hope they wont drop the price and actually raise it because I hate seeing cheap people on this section.
Good day
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
On the box it's called the galaxy note 2 so it has something to do with the galaxy line. OP, Sprint won't drop the price for awhile. Maybe never. If you want it asap then look to other dealers or buying it used.
I doubt there's going to be a price drop on the Note 2. Not till the Note 3 anyways.. You guys are comparing a phablet to a phone. Price drop for the GS3? Sure, you can already get one practically free..
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
shabgard said:
Ok im really sorry but I dont ****ing get this there are 100 threads about if we are going to switch to gs4 or all that crap this phone has nothing to with galaxy line not even close I dont know why people asking all this question and what makes you ****ing think that with gs4 coming out they are going to drop the price, I hope they wont drop the price and actually raise it because I hate seeing cheap people on this section.
Good day
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really are hard headed. Really? Your mad that people want to pay less for a phone? Your blood pressure must be through the roof. Good luck
Sent from my Amazing Galaxy Note 2!
He's just sad that he paid $300 for a phone that can now be had for anywhere between $70 - $180.
I bought my phone off the contract cause I wanted to keep my upgrade, I just hate it when people try to buy stuff they cant afford and ask stupid questions since note II is a phablet and not a phone.
anishannayya said:
He's just sad that he paid $300 for a phone that can now be had for anywhere between $70 - $180.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
Just cuz sprint won't doesn't mean amazon or wirefly or lets talk wont
It's a phone. Stop making up words.
Frugality has nothing to do with wealth. In fact, frugal people tend to be those that actually have the most wealth.
shabgard said:
I bought my phone off the contract cause I wanted to keep my upgrade, I just hate it when people try to buy stuff they cant afford and ask stupid questions since note II is a phablet and not a phone.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true. If you can't afford it at a certain price then don't buy it. But that's probably why they want to see it go down in price, because they can't afford higher price. Nothing wrong with that. Plus I saw an article that said s3 and note 2 aren't far off in costs to make. In the end the reason for price difference is the cell company trying to make more money cause phone is bigger. I guess it could cost them more but either way just look at the prices for the note 2, started at $299 for new customers, about 3 months and new customers were able to get it for $99 from Amazon.
Sent from my Amazing Galaxy Note 2!
Lmfao so many people talking about the stupid prices of this phone. 3 things I have to say to ya.
1. Yea, it's a $600 its expensive.
2. No, we do not have to act like children to get what we want. Your not 9.
3. People. There's people out there who simply cant afford the best things in life. Some not even a peace of bread. Consider your self lucky to even own a phone. And stop trashing on other people who cant.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
Damn op was just asking one question? and certain people start jumping on him like he's supposed to have the money to buy a brand new device, REALLy..... its really sad that some cant ask a simple question without someone with a smart remark, come on guys this is a place for people to ask for help or just ask for some opinions, Not to bash on anyone for not having money. Grow up guys. Mods please close this thread thx.....
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
anishannayya said:
It's a phone. Stop making up words.
Frugality has nothing to do with wealth. In fact, frugal people tend to be those that actually have the most wealth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's not making up anything man. It IS called a phablet. Yes it's a phone too but it was designed as a tablet. I know the word phablet sounds really stupid but that's the chosen word I guess. How many phones out there have an SPen or have the features ours has? Think about it. Our device already does more than the gs4 ever will and once we get all the new software it will be even better.
Btw op watch the prices on Amazon.com. I got mine for $199 and I've seen it go as low as $169. It's different almost every day.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
Lol
Ill be waiting for amazon or someone to drop it to 99 I feel sorry for u idiots who paid full price on a phone lol
colonel.shepard said:
Lol
Ill be waiting for amazon or someone to drop it to 99 I feel sorry for u idiots who paid full price on a phone lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well seeing for the last 2 weeks on Amazon it's been at $249 maybe it will hit $99 sometime around when the Note 5 comes out for the IDIOTS that want to wait that long! I'm happy for what I have at $199 thank you very much!
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
Its at 169 elsewhere yo so it'll get there