Develop Bugs

Is there any hope??? (soft brick)

ok... so my aunt brought me her phone that she said she bricked... first thing first, its just a soft brick. i can turn the device on normally ( in which it just stays at the htc bootsplash.. i can also boot the phone into bootloader.. i cant go into recovery. when i select restart bootloader in fastboot it freezes the phone up... i have came to a conclusion that she wiped her recovery out completely. heres the problem where i need help..
1. the phone is ****locked**** , and when i try to use the htc dev. to unlock bootloader it will not let me select "yes" to unlock bootloader.
2. s-on
3. usb debugging is disabled im assuming...
4. hboot = 0.98.0000
5. radio: 1.09.01.1111
is there any hope for this phone???

Have you tried fast boot flash a recovery or using an ruu

when i try to flash recovery via flash boot it gives me an error.. htc cant sign the file properly..!!!??? all the ruu methods ive seen require usb debugging to be enabled ive tried them anyways with no luck...

Use the downgrade method in the development section.
Sent from my KangBang'd out vivow

doesnt the downgrade method require you to have usb debugging enabled??? my phone will not boot...

So I guess there is no hope for this phone... I can't get anyone to respond... :/
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

stebomurkn420 said:
So I guess there is no hope for this phone... I can't get anyone to respond... :/
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a locked bootloader? I don't see how it could work, but you might as well try the downgrade tool, it can't hurt.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5

prototype7 said:
With a locked bootloader? I don't see how it could work, but you might as well try the downgrade tool, it can't hurt.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried every tool in this thread... I need a manual way to do things through cmd...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

stebomurkn420 said:
I have tried every tool in this thread... I need a manual way to do things through cmd...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would try flashing a recovery through the bootloader again. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1185490 check out that thread for more info. I don't think its gonna work because you aren't s-off but its worth a try. I have seen some hboot flash able ruu's before. I will look around after work.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2

cstone1991 said:
I would try flashing a recovery through the bootloader again. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1185490 check out that thread for more info. I don't think its gonna work because you aren't s-off but its worth a try. I have seen some hboot flash able ruu's before. I will look around after work.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for any links or anything you can throw my way for help...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1599767 Here is the return to stock RUU from what I can gather this one is signed. If it works be sure to thank CondemnedSoul in the op of that thread. I will keep hunting around for anything else I can find.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2

http://tinyurl.com/855xskv
If the one at the previous link will not flash take a look at this one. I believe you need the gingerbread 2.3.4 one based on the radio version you posted. These are also signed so they should be able flash with s-on.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2

cstone1991 said:
http://tinyurl.com/855xskv
If the one at the previous link will not flash take a look at this one. I believe you need the gingerbread 2.3.4 one based on the radio version you posted. These are also signed so they should be able flash with s-on.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ruu downloads are messed up on this link... anyone have another source... I will be trying both these methods when I get home... wish me luck
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

stebomurkn420 said:
The ruu downloads are messed up on this link... anyone have another source... I will be trying both these methods when I get home... wish me luck
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: no luck with these processes... could someone tell me if you have to have the boot loader unlocked for these methods?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

Google search "vivow signed ruu" there are hundreds of posts there with downloads. A signed ruu is an ruu just as it comes from htc. Because it is signed you can flash it through bootloader with s-on.
You will need a newer or equivalent version to the one on the phone or it won't flash.
You will just need to find one with a good download now.
Sent from my ICS Dinc2

Hmmm
Like has been said the RUU posted by CondemnedSoul should work. Just make sure its named PG32IMG. Dont add .zip or anything as you may not be able to see extensions if you dont have then enabled. Once its named PG32IMG and you put it on your SD card by itself not in a folder.
Once you do this pull the battery for a second and put it back. Now Volume down and power to boot bootloader. Give it a sec and see if it will load the image. If it does load it will give you the option to install by pressing volume up. It should start to install and should fix the problem. I have used the file before on my older Inc 2 so I know it works. Hope you get it sorted out.

So I get the ruu to read finally and it freezes on this screen...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

How long did you let it run?? The only time I have had that issue is when I ended up with a bad download. Have you tried downloading the file again??

zackspeed said:
How long did you let it run?? The only time I have had that issue is when I ended up with a bad download. Have you tried downloading the file again??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i let it go for about 30 min... then did a battery pull...

Bump...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

What is the reason of disabling OTA ?? Unlocked Bootload - Custom Recovery - Root ??

Hi all , ..
I've finally Unlocked my One X Bootloader & installed CWM Recovery & Rooted my phone
Now I can't recieve OTA updates and I want to know which one should I disable to return this feature again (OTA updates)
I need your help and thanks in advance

You would need to unroot and flash the stock recovery image for the software version your on
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

bogfather said:
You would need to unroot and flash the stock recovery image for the software version your on
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So there is no need to relock the bootloader ??
And how can I get the stock recovery of version 1.29.708.15 ??
thanks for your help anyway

You don't need to relock your bootloader for ota. Im afraid I don't know where to find your stock recovery as I don't bother with ota's, I use custom roms or ruus
EDIT: if you can find your versions ruu you should be able to extract the stock recovery from it
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

bogfather said:
You don't need to relock your bootloader for ota. Im afraid I don't know where to find your stock recovery as I don't bother with ota's, I use custom roms or ruus
EDIT: if you can find your versions ruu you should be able to extract the stock recovery from it
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes .. I have found my version RUU but how can I extract the recovery from it ??

Bear with me a minute, I'm just gonna have a look in the ruu I've got on my pc. It's old so it takes about 10 mins to boot up
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

bogfather said:
Bear with me a minute, I'm just gonna have a look in the ruu I've got on my pc. It's old so it takes about 10 mins to boot up
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay .. take your time
THANKS

omar_bazaraa said:
Okay .. take your time
THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bogfather said:
Bear with me a minute, I'm just gonna have a look in the ruu I've got on my pc. It's old so it takes about 10 mins to boot up
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Run the ruu BUT DONT hit next.
From explorer enter %temp% in the address bar.
Find two newly created directories
In one of them there is a file called rom.zip
Copy that to another place. Close ruu.
Everything is inside the rom.zip file.
@ bogfather I thought I would save you the hassle
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

eyosen said:
Run the ruu BUT DONT hit next.
From explorer enter %temp% in the address bar.
Find two newly created directories
In one of them there is a file called rom.zip
Copy that to another place. Close ruu.
Everything is inside the rom.zip file.
@ bogfather I thought I would save you the hassle
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cheers eyosen, my pcs only just booted up. i think its time for an upgrade

That must be one heck of an old pc.
Ever consider donating it to a museum?
Just joking..
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

eyosen said:
That must be one heck of an old pc.
Ever consider donating it to a museum?
Just joking..
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont think the museum would take it
thats what i get for never defragging it and downloading loads of rubbish on it

That's what the pcs are for.
Time for me to sign off. Good luck with flashing the recovery.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Double post, stupid pc
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------
I downloaded the 1.29.708.15 ruu and extracted the recovery.signed zip. It's here in my dropbox
http://db.tt/z9Q34jUX
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

bogfather said:
Double post, stupid pc
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------
I downloaded the 1.29.708.15 ruu and extracted the recovery.signed zip. It's here in my dropbox
http://db.tt/z9Q34jUX
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks a lot mate >> really I don't know how to thank you >> +1 for your help
Could you help me to download this RUU (1.29.708.15) ?? because I don't have premium account on File Factory ..

omar_bazaraa said:
Hi all , ..
I've finally Unlocked my One X Bootloader & installed CWM Recovery & Rooted my phone
Now I can't recieve OTA updates and I want to know which one should I disable to return this feature again (OTA updates)
I need your help and thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will get the update (if your ROM is just stock, but rooted) but you won't be able to apply it.
1.29.708.15 is the latest for the Hong Kong version.

omar_bazaraa said:
thanks a lot mate >> really I don't know how to thank you >> +1 for your help
Could you help me to download this RUU (1.29.708.15) ?? because I don't have premium account on File Factory ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go, http://db.tt/GEq5mYV6
Let me know when you've got it so i can take it of my dropbox
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

BenPope said:
You will get the update (if your ROM is just stock, but rooted) but you won't be able to apply it.
1.29.708.15 is the latest for the Hong Kong version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really !! if an update release to my rooted phone I'll get a notification about that but I can't download it ??

bogfather said:
Here you go, http://db.tt/GEq5mYV6
Let me know when you've got it so i can take it of my dropbox
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really I have no word to thank you with ..
I'' downloading the RUU now and when I finsh I'll let you know
+1 THANKS to you

omar_bazaraa said:
Really !! if an update release to my rooted phone I'll get a notification about that but I can't download it ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you stay in stock Rom but with custom recovery and rooted you would still get the notification of an update but it would fail until you put the stock recovery back on. Some people say you don't need to unroot for the ota but from my past experience it's best to. To unroot you have to go into your system/bin or system/xbin and look for the Su file and delete it. Then uninstall the superuser app.
sent from my One X using xda venom premium

bogfather said:
If you stay in stock Rom but with custom recovery and rooted you would still get the notification of an update but it would fail until you put the stock recovery back on. Some people say you don't need to unroot for the ota but from my past experience it's best to. To unroot you have to go into your system/bin or system/xbin and look for the Su file and delete it. Then uninstall the superuser app.
sent from my One X using xda venom premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmmmm .. thats much better .. thanks for all your helps
by the way I've finished downloading the RUU
THANKS :good:

[Q] Only sense roms working.

I can only get sense roms to work, whenever I try and flash a non-sense rom it leaves me on the htc logo boot screen.
Any ideas?

archie winnington-ingram said:
I can only get sense roms to work, whenever I try and flash a non-sense rom it leaves me on the htc logo boot screen.
Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about flashing the boot.img from the AOSP rom you want

Yeah, I have tried that.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Is your hboot compatible with AOSP rom what do you want to flash?

archie winnington-ingram said:
Yeah, I have tried that.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try fastboot erase cache then flash boot.IMG some people do fast boot erase cache again. Then boot into recovery then wipe cache dalvik cache factory reset then flash the zip file then reboot ?
Sent from my 32gb Nexus 7 using Bricked kernel 0.58 with 4.2.1 stock

elsworth1983 said:
Did you try fastboot erase cache then flash boot.IMG some people do fast boot erase cache again. Then boot into recovery then wipe cache dalvik cache factory reset then flash the zip file then reboot ?
Sent from my 32gb Nexus 7 using Bricked kernel 0.58 with 4.2.1 stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Do all those things whenever I install a Rom. Its weird.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Guich said:
Is your hboot compatible with AOSP rom what do you want to flash?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not, I guess that would explain it. How can I tell and how can I change it?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

archie winnington-ingram said:
Probably not, I guess that would explain it. How can I tell and how can I change it?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See if your carrier has sent stock update this updates your htboot instead of using ruu I think there called have a look here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1975140 am no expert but it might help you to update ur htboot
Sent from my 32gb Nexus 7 using Bricked kernel 0.58 with 4.2.1 stock
---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------
elsworth1983 said:
See if your carrier has sent stock update this updates your htboot instead of using ruu I think there called have a look here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1975140 am no expert but it might help you to update ur htboot
Sent from my 32gb Nexus 7 using Bricked kernel 0.58 with 4.2.1 stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1859714
Sent from my 32gb Nexus 7 using Bricked kernel 0.58 with 4.2.1 stock

archie winnington-ingram said:
I can only get sense roms to work, whenever I try and flash a non-sense rom it leaves me on the htc logo boot screen.
Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not that your device is not compatible, or your hboot needs to be updated, but i think you should repack the kernel that is inside the AOSP/ non-sense rom.
hboot that is 1.31 or higher needs to be repacked to to run on AOSP roms.:good:

I am afraid you have all confused me. No idea about whether or not my carrier sent an update, but I assume they haven't-wouldn't that create an issue with sense roms too?
As far as my kernal is concerned, I thought they were just built into roms?
I am actually more than happy with blade for the moment, but this confused me.
sent from my bladed one x

Hi even I had d same prob thanks to headless monkey hunta 96 it was solved d prob is d boot img bro flashing d boot img which came wit d Rom didnt work .cz my hboot was 1.36 n some of d rom don't support d new hboot so had 2 find a modded boot img I had dis prob wit jellybam nd cm 10 se v 2.2 but later got it working
Sent from my HTC One X v 5.0 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 PM ----------
Edit wat I ment by modded boot img is bout repacking as mentioned by flamin_ice 1986 for more info find ncx kernel thread bro cheers
Nd try trip n droid Rom it worked fine with d boot img which is provided in d rom
Sent from my HTC One X v 5.0

HTC one stuck in fastboot after run flash

I have acquired a HTC one that's was running tarp and cm 10 but previous owner decided to flash run
Now is stuck in bootloader adb says no device found but fastboot usb works also shows tampered locked s-on
Could someone please share how to fix please
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

taz44410 said:
I have acquired a HTC one that's was running tarp and cm 10 but previous owner decided to flash run
Now is stuck in bootloader adb says no device found but fastboot usb works also shows tampered locked s-on
Could someone please share how to fix please
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What did the previous owner flash? (run?) Are you able to select and boot into Recovery from the Bootloader? If so, boot into recovery and Factory Reset or re-flash your ROM.

Sorry auto correct got me it was ruu not run and no it will not go into recovery I select it and it goes for 1 second then kicks me back to bootloader
I don't have any experience high HTC so I'm stuck
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

taz44410 said:
Sorry auto correct got me it was ruu not run and no it will not go into recovery I select it and it goes for 1 second then kicks me back to bootloader
I don't have any experience high HTC so I'm stuck
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try reflashing TWRP recovery in fastboot and see if you can then boot into recovery. Or you can try to reflash RUU or even just the boot.img. I am not a super expert on this, so hopefully someone will chime in.

smoysauce said:
Try reflashing TWRP recovery in fastboot and see if you can then boot into recovery. Or you can try to reflash RUU or even just the boot.img. I am not a super expert on this, so hopefully someone will chime in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind I'm a Samsung user not HTC how would I go about flashing it in fastboot?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

To flash twrp recovery go to this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=44887571
[RECOVERY] TWRP 2.6.3.0 touch recovery
Also, if you search around Google and xda you will find great step-by-step instructions and tutorials on how to setup and use adb/fastboot to flash and such.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire HD using Tapatalk 4

I have done that but most methods did not work for me so I was wondering if so thing they did was the cause that's why I was asking
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

Looks like he may be screwed. It says locked and s-on. He can't flash a recovery. If there's no ROM installed, you can't exactly use rumrunner. Might need to send it to sonic.
Sent from my HTC6500LVWBLU using Tapatalk 4
If I've helped, please hit the thanks button

taz44410 said:
I have done that but most methods did not work for me so I was wondering if so thing they did was the cause that's why I was asking
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tylerlawhon said:
Looks like he may be screwed. It says locked and s-on. He can't flash a recovery. If there's no ROM installed, you can't exactly use rumrunner. Might need to send it to sonic.
Sent from my HTC6500LVWBLU using Tapatalk 4
If I've helped, please hit the thanks button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, might be. Odd that it was working fine, what would possess someone to try and flash the RUU? Anyway, if you tried flashing recovery, did you try and flash the system.img, boot.img and recovery_signed.img into their respective slots?
You should be able to find the files from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2437436
You will just need to unzip and extract those files, then flash them in fastboot to their respective partitions.
Other then that, I would say your bricked unless, like what tylerlawhon said, you can see if you can send it to sonic to s-off again.
You could maybe also try reading through this if the previous didn't work, I know it says must be s-off and unlocked, but possibly worth a read
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2475216

Yeah tried all that glad I only gave $50 for it
They said they were on cm and didn't like it and wanted to return to stock
I may not know much about HTC but why not try a stock based rom is what I asked
And they said
What is that?
I think you get the point
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

taz44410 said:
Yeah tried all that glad I only gave $50 for it
They said they were on cm and didn't like it and wanted to return to stock
I may not know much about HTC but why not try a stock based rom is what I asked
And they said
What is that?
I think you get the point
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sending you a pm about this

taz44410 said:
Yeah tried all that glad I only gave $50 for it
They said they were on cm and didn't like it and wanted to return to stock
I may not know much about HTC but why not try a stock based rom is what I asked
And they said
What is that?
I think you get the point
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see...well at least it was only 50! Good luck, hopefully you can get it figured out!
Sent from my One using Tapatalk

Taz, you have mail

Wozzie said:
Taz, you have mail
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you able to resolve this?
I'm in the exact same boat. I did try to flash the system image.. but it's now allowing me.
I get remote :not allowed?

skinney said:
Were you able to resolve this?
I'm in the exact same boat. I did try to flash the system image.. but it's now allowing me.
I get remote :not allowed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I havent heard back from him since I sent the PM but I will copy what I sent and send it to you.

Please Help
Wozzie said:
I havent heard back from him since I sent the PM but I will copy what I sent and send it to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an AT&T HTC One,
I accidently formatted my SD card and everything I had is now gone. I was installing a new rom and now nothing boots up except HBOOT.
I can select FastFoot ; Recovery ; Factory Reset ; Etc.
When selecting Recovery it loads clockworkmod for 2 seconds then it restarts and that's it. I need help please.
(USB Mass Storage won't load on PC)

metalguns14 said:
I have an AT&T HTC One....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then it would behoove you to pose your question in a Forum for the AT&T HTC One. The one you're in now is dedicated to the Verizon HTC One.

Wozzie said:
I am sending you a pm about this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wozzie, this just happened to me. Can u help me out please sir?

What is this?

Friends I got this HTC desire HD from a eBay seller.usually it should be s on but it shows s off RL.but actually it should be s on,what should I do to install a custom ROM. guys help me ASAP.waiting for ur reply...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app

That's fine. All you have to do is flash a custom recovery (guides in the link of my sig, or look for Ace Think Tank) and you'll be good to go.
S-OFF means securities flag checks are off, therefore you can flash ROMs without having to flash the boot.img from the bootloader, resulting in an easier experience.
Good find getting a S-OFF DHD from eBay
-Sent from Guy's phone via Tapatalk
>Sammy Note 10.1: stock, no root
>Sammy S3 stock, no root
---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------
Also, wrong section. Should be in Q&A
-Sent from Guy's phone via Tapatalk
>Sammy Note 10.1: stock, no root
>Sammy S3 stock, no root

Whether I have to unlock bootloader now or I should not do that...after that flash recovery and install superuser.Zip....please explain me in detail....
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app

sridharkettavan said:
Whether I have to unlock bootloader now or I should not do that...after that flash recovery and install superuser.Zip....please explain me in detail....
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should find a custom recovery like CWM or 4EXT packed as PD98IMG.zip, put to root of sdcard then flash it in bootloader. After that go to recovery to flash supersu v1.8 from chainfire. That's all
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app

Bro,please teach me how to install recovery,I downloaded cwm.zip,and went to recovery and choose the option apply update from sdcard and select cwm.zip and started to install.finally got a message installation aborted,please help me bro.I don't know what to do...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app

GuyInTheCorner said:
That's fine. All you have to do is flash a custom recovery (guides in the link of my sig, or look for Ace Think Tank) and you'll be good to go.
S-OFF means securities flag checks are off, therefore you can flash ROMs without having to flash the boot.img from the bootloader, resulting in an easier experience.
Good find getting a S-OFF DHD from eBay
-Sent from Guy's phone via Tapatalk
>Sammy Note 10.1: stock, no root
>Sammy S3 stock, no root
---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------
Also, wrong section. Should be in Q&A
-Sent from Guy's phone via Tapatalk
>Sammy Note 10.1: stock, no root
>Sammy S3 stock, no root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guys at tech center flashed stock ROM and bootloader S-OFF for 1500 Rubles (~50 $)
I had hard brick as flashed wrong bootloader (hardly sense 5 porting way, lol)

Friends i downloaded cwm recovery.zip renamed it as PD98IMG.i copied it in sd card.when i presses hboot,finally it says model ID incorrect,update fail...friends please help me....i dont know what to do...
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app

I tried to flash recovery,but got à message error:device not round
Tour model is not supported at this time...
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app

Continue the thread here --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2574787