Develop Bugs

HTC opposing modding, but sure as hell they are willing to take your money!!!

I've been enjoying the custom ROM features for a short while, but when I came across the HTC's desicion to put shipped-roms down, I had to make a statement.
I've contacted HTC about the matter, and the answer I got did not please me, at all. They just ignored the fact that the success(and their money) comes greatly because of the open Android platform, and the eager programmer communities contributing to it. Which is the reason and soul, to promise, for the platform, to get success and long life, in the future.
Their claim stands on the corporate ignorance on that fact I mentioned. As the original binaries are not to be used in any other way, than to give a rescue route, if some customization route takes the wrong turn, and ends in bricking the device. In those occations we could take the step back and restore the original image, into a device, and keep hunting the bug's in custom cooked roms.
So I hope that more people will get in touch directly to HTC, and make them understand that keeping the binaries out in the open, does not steal any money or intellectual property from them, in any way, but is solely to keep supporting the device sales, and the life of the platform as a whole.
Yours truly
sawe
P.S. Sorry for the bad language, I'm not a native english speaker.

I personally think that response is reasonable. They can't guarantee that anything won't go wrong with ROMs other than their own and therefore won't support it.
They don't however try to actively stop it which is why there is such a great community of developers.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

They don't actively stop modding. They just want to keep their own ROMs safe.

I think they are not reasonable on the matter. Reasonable would be if they give us the possibility to download released ROMs from their web servers.
By taking that possibility away, they deny us to revert back to official version, and by that put a much bigger risk in testing the new mods.
No intellectual property is at risk because official packages are .exe binary files, so no way to missuse them, only ability to flash the device back to factory defaults.

Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?

badgerarc said:
Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?
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Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.

this thread is aload of crap, htc have the right to take whatever steps they feel are justified to protect there work, if you dont like it dont buy htc simple, but we all know people will buy htc because whatever you think of them they are that best smartphone manufacturer

HTC have more rights than they actually use, agreed this thread is pointless.
Xda could drown under 2 meters of dung and htc wouldn't even notice, or maybe they would just be happy to do away with all the idiots bogging down customer support with questions about froyo and then moaning it's not ready a split second after the android team released it.
not sent from an iToilet

saweboy said:
Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave
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Click to collapse
thats true ive done that using ms process manager when i wanted the stock htc bootanimation.zip

I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.

SimonCraddock said:
I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sincerely hope they don't, since 90% of the supposed beta testing here is unscientific at best and plain wrong at worst
not sent from an iToilet

I think HTC would have much more sophisticated testing methods than relying on comments like....
ZOMG!!! THE CAMERA APP FORCE CLOSES, THIS ROM SUX!!!
HTC have every right to protect their intellectual property. In fact they're being very nice with the modding community. If they full exercised their rights then there roms including HTC Sense would be illegal.

[Q] Soooooo... what are the chances of wm7 coming to our android devices?

The final devices just got announced, devs will probably take a swing at it, AND ive seen some wm7 dumps going around the forum. sooooo... what do you all think? i'd love to have a play with this, just like every other ZOMG-NEW-UI-I-GOTS-TO-HAVE! guy here haha
is there already some work going on?

Zero chance, It would be illegal to do so as the license is sold with the device,

Just for fun?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

I don't want it on my phone... WP7 has the ugliest UI I've ever seen. Some animations and transitions looks cool but other than that it just makes wanna throw up!

im more into it for the social interaction, the way facebook integrates and everything, it looked pretty good in all the demos..

rosebud said:
Zero chance, It would be illegal to do so as the license is sold with the device,
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Click to collapse
in that case
let it be done
*Edit*
aaaaarrggh
Mod Edit: swearing removed

Yeah. Stupid laws... It's no different than someone stealing your car.
I suppose if someone wanted to, they could create a customized launcher and a bunch of other apps that looked like wm7, but I fail to see the point.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

oursoul said:
in that case
let it be done
*Edit
aaaaarrggh
Mod Edit: swearing removed
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Click to collapse
please read the forum rules on warez, piracy an also your language ......

who cares about wm7?
m$ is afraid about android...
the only thing that i don't understand is why a wm phone and an android phone have the same prices with similar hardware...
when you buy the phone you pay the licence too... android phones must cost less then a wm phone...
or not?

Icchan said:
when you buy the phone you pay the licence too... android phones must cost less then a wm phone...
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Click to collapse
First of all, I believe the phone manufacturers still pay a fee to Google for the GApps.
Secondly, it's all about profit margins - Android is attractive to companies like HTC because they likely make more money per unit than they would if they use WP7.
Regards,
Dave

Lets tell HTC how we feel about them locking our phones down

I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251

I assume its due to new apps such as: netflix, hulu, move rentals and other apps that require a lockdown. I don't think HTC would like to see their hard work (HTC Sense) on other devices lowering the need for upgrades: example, the two Incredibles if you install sense 2.0 or skyraider 4.0 the need for Incredible 2 lowers quite a bit. I plan on jumping on Incredible 2 just because of its design. It is exactly what I wanted in the first Incredible. I'm all up more for unlocked HTC phones

I sent them an email and got the following response...
Thank you for your feedback regarding the Incredible 2. Unfortunately I do not have information about whether the bootloader is locked or how it can be customized to allow you to install a custom ROM. Because we focus on supporting the software included on the device and assisting users with free technical support we are only able to support the aspects of the device as they are developed by ourselves and your carrier, in this case Verizon.
That said, however, we do value your feedback. You will see an invitation to provide our company with recorded, documented feedback in the signature of my email to you. The ratings at the top are your opportunity to rate my response to you and then there is a comment section that allows you to make your opinions known to HTC itself, rather than to simply the representative who corresponds with you. I would encourage you to submit your opinion there as well, even if you just copy and paste most of your initial email to us.
We track this feedback and it does make a difference in our product decisions. If it turns out the bootloader is locked down with a secure key or other method, your feedback using the survey system may convince the powers that be to change this in a future update.
In regard to your inquiry regarding an API for the Sense interface, any application or widget targeted for Android should work in HTC Sense, so you should be able to use the Android APIs for your development purposes and this will also allow your application to work on phones that do not run HTC Sense, such as competitor phones or even some of our devices like the G2. That said, there are additional resources where you can get information about developing on HTC and Android devices:
http://www.htcmobilitynow.com/ This is a site that allows you to request to partner with us for application development or suggest a business opportunity, if you would like.
http://developer.htc.com/ This URL contains kernel and GPL-covered source code for our devices. Source is generally published within 90 days of a product release but it normally does not take that long.
To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Sincerely,
Douglas
HTC
Want to see what others are saying? Have a question to ask other HTC fans?
Become a fan of HTC facebook.com/htc
Follow us on Twitter twitter.com/htc
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel youtube.com/htc
Explore our development resources developer.htc.com
We are unable to receive replies to this email account. Please visit us at htc.com if you have any questions or need further assistance.
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Pretty much just seems like a regular copy paste brush off response.

HTC has some very good reasons for locking devices down, and I don't blame them at all. Their setup is very nice for the average consumer.
I support OEMs locking their hardware in general, however I also support (and am active in) unlocking them. What they really need to do is find a workable solution, like enabling oem unlock.
tylerch said:
I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I have seen a lot of boilerplate brush-offs in my life, and while that HTC rep wasn't able to help get anything done in some concrete form, the letter was not based on a template. Sure they were 2 or 3 paragraphs that sounded stock, but I am guessing (and was very surprised considering what I have seen from HTC on other occasions) that the letter took a longer than average amount of time to write... I do not think it would not be considered a brush off.
And it makes sense... If there is any industry right now which is being carefully watched because of the world's acknowledged impact of it on an individual's daily life, both professional and personal, it is mobile communication and the development thereof. There is an extraordinary amount of money to be made and lost here. HTC is a newcomer through good fortune and I doubt anyone expected them to be sitting next to motorola, samsung, LG, etc. 3 years ago. In this age of social media where 4000 people complaining on a Facebook page can change a corporate policy, HTC is not ignoring any group. And not one with the power we have.
Look at T-Mobile, while I still think their customer device is mediocre, as third place carrier, I have noticed a distinct catering to the "enthusiast" segment of android. Now this doesn't mean they are going to have every phone released sporting a wide open OS like the G1, but their phones are relatively easy to root (wake up Motorola!), and the caliber of their phones (design, cutting edge technology like dual core) is far and away better than the other carriers out there.
I am starting to ramble, but my point is this is a crucial time in an area that we happen to be a big part of. If you don't think the manufacturers or the carriers are keeping a close eye on this board's membership, or the number of people served by CM7, your wrong.. We have the power to turn the carriers and the manufacturers future business plans on their ear. (With early attempts at a "kitchen"... man, that had to make them tremble a bit.) And this enthusiast market is only going to snowball, even if not for true enthusiasts, then for all the people that just want someone to root and re-theme their phone. Trust me, they care.
EDIT: Bottom line, the OP is making a smart suggestion.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I certainly expected them to be sitting were they are 3 years ago. 5 years ago, no. Hadn't heard of them yet.
Also that was not a stock brush off. Everytime I've contacted HTC I've been happily surprised with their answers. She told you what we need to do to change it so let's do it!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I agree with jcase that manufacturers and service providers have legitimate reasons for the locking of their respective devices.
One being the protection of their oem software as stated. Another is fraudulent device returns for devices bricked or otherwise rendered inoperable by something done at root level. Lastly the hot topic of rooted tethering and wifi hot spot which are paid services.
So that being said set aside your anger and look at it from their point of view.
I am a rooted user who takes full advantage of my devices potential. I hope that there is a solution in the not too distant future that will both protect the manufacturers and providers interests yet give us the option to modify our devices as we see fit.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App

Are you guys serious? HTC has been around for ages (1997) theyre one of the pioneers in pda/smartphone and touchscreen technology. First windows pda, first windows based phone, first 3g cdma smartphone, first android smartphone and first 4g smartphone. They've been innovative when LG and Moto thought the razr and shine were bleeding edge lol. I had NO doubt they would have a seat upon high. ;-)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

efaden said:
Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC already does this, but many of us are dicking with the bootloader, which handles this. Once you mess with the bootloader, the possibility of bricking is very real.

Locking down the bootloader was Verizon's idea. Not HTC's. They would rather sell them unlocked. Only the carrier wants them locked. Just think about it and you will see why the manufacturers are forced to do so. There is no point contacting HTC. Please send such emails to Verizon. Please do bug HTC to sell unlocked boot loader devices on the net.
Sent from my thunderbolt

HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution

jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
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Click to collapse
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.

efaden said:
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.
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the incS has XTC support, and touchpro hooked raskal up with his verizon inc2 so lets pray we get support for the inc2!!!

jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the difficulties with rooting has not been carrier specific. In fact, the troubles started with the myTouch Slide on T-Mobile then the G2 on T-Mobile and now the Incredible 2 on Verizon, the Evo Shift on Sprint, and the Thunderbolt on Verizon.
Seems like this is more HTC than the specific carrier to me.

This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.

finitybeyond said:
This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just about to post this! I hope they let us unlock the bootloaders.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless

LowFire82 said:
And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless
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Click to collapse
Found this on the HTC Facebook page..
"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC

Hell yea I was just about to post that as well! I hope this means they will provide means to unlock currently locked phones.

WTF?!?!? Apple won patent over HTC for a STUPID thing

The United States International Trade Commission (ITC) has ruled in favor of Apple and declared a ban on the import of many HTC devices in the US, including flagship phones like the Sprint Evo 4G and Verizon Droid Incredible. The ruling would effectively end HTC’s business in the US.
After a lengthy back-and-forth between the two companies, the ITC has ruled that HTC infringes on two of Apple’s patents. Should the President of the United States decide to let the decision pass through, the ban will be put into effect on April 19, 2012. HTC plans to implement “alternate solutions” to combat the ruling.
The Verge reports:
After a lengthy review, the Commission found that HTC devices infringe two claims of patent #5,946,647, which is a system level patent issued in 1999 on analyzing and linking data structures— ultimately implicating the heart of Android itself and not HTC’s specific implementation.The decision now goes to the desk of the president, who has 60 days to issue a rarely-used veto; the ban itself will go into effect on April 19, 2012 to provide HTC with a transition period, and HTC will be allowed to import refurbished products for warranty replacement purposes until December 19, 2013.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Due to the nature of the exclusion order in the ruling, HTC devices that are already being sold in the US shouldn’t be affected. But until the cases of infringement are fixed by HTC, Apple could use its newfound clout to go after all of the HTC phones running the newer versions of Android (2.3, 3.0, and 4.0).
Apple could theoretically use this new ruling to go after any other Android handset maker, as the main patent in question is a system level part of the Android OS. HTC has said that it will simply remove the infringing patent from its phones. The company called it a “small UI experience” in an official statement:
We are gratified that the Commission affirmed the judge’s initial determination on the ‘721 and ‘983 patents, and reversed its decision on the ‘263 patent and partially on the ‘647 patent. We are very pleased with the determination and we respect it. However, the ‘647 patent is a small UI experience and HTC will completely remove it from all of our phones soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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Click to collapse
Ehm, this means that i won't be able TO TAP A PHONE NUMBER IN AN EMAIL AND CALL IT? Darn Apple... I use a MacBook Air, it made me only problems... sound card broke 5 days ago. Now i have no sound!
The HTC Desire is great. No problems at all. Rooted and now it's extremely awesome.

Here's an interesting read:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5869598/if-apple-wins-we-all-lose
Sent from my HTC Desire CM7.1 using XDA App

Insignificant win. Ban applies only on Android 1.6 - 2.1.

I hope so...
But why "declared a ban on the import of many HTC devices in the US, including flagship phones like the Sprint Evo 4G and Verizon Droid Incredible" ?

All these patent things flying around is getting out of hand. Is there anyone not suing someone else

samhiggs1988 said:
Here's an interesting read:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5869598/if-apple-wins-we-all-lose
Sent from my HTC Desire CM7.1 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading Gizmodo makes me feel all ugly inside. Check out this yellow journalism bull****:
http://gizmodo.com/5869507/htc-android-phones-are-being-banned-from-the-us-next-year

Apple always made me feel sick with their bull****.
The crude reality is that I will copy phone number and paste it in the dialer. Also the reality is that none of the Apple products never did and never will go across my doorstep.
SwiftKeyed from my HTC Desire using XDA App.

MattchuR said:
All these patent things flying around is getting out of hand. Is there anyone not suing someone else
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Click to collapse
I am not!
also I read that the actual story was something like apple v htc was 1-4? they lost 4 lawsuits and only won 1... funny how most stories just have apple wins vs htc
could be wrong though - could be i dreamed that fact above...

Lothaen said:
I am not!
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Click to collapse
What?! I am going to sue you!
Lothaen said:
also I read that the actual story was something like apple v htc was 1-4? they lost 4 lawsuits and only won 1... funny how most stories just have apple wins vs htc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It´s kinda hard to tell. I mean they are suing each other in almost every country.

But if you look at what Apple wants to get Samsung to drop—the bezel and the rounded corners and the rectangular shape
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I'll make it a sphere!
Legally, it's easy for HTC to circumvent this rule. Change Sense so that it doesnt linkify..we on xda can then repatch the apk so that it does

Legally, it's easy for HTC to circumvent this rule. Change Sense so that it doesnt linkify..we on xda can then repatch the apk so that it does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great ideea! Apple can't sue HTC over something comunity-made
And since HTC supports bootloader unlocking via HTCdev website it's a great thing.
Come on HTC! You can do it!

Droidzone said:
I'll make it a sphere!
Legally, it's easy for HTC to circumvent this rule. Change Sense so that it doesnt linkify..we on xda can then repatch the apk so that it does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Annoying as its a nice feature to have to not fix in the first place.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium

Petition against HTC to have them fix the multitasking issue

I've started a petition to try to get HTC to fix the multitasking issue on our One X's.
At first it didn't bother me that much, but the more I use the phone, the more it gets to me. A couple of times already I wanted to smash the phone against the wall.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/htc-fix-multitasking-on-our-one-xs/
All your support is greatly appreciated

Pretty poorly written 'petition'
Doesn't matter anyway, even if wasn't abysmal, it wouldn't be effective unless 1000's complained to HTC about it but we on XDA are the 1%.

So Sorry Tommy
TommUK said:
Pretty poorly written 'petition'
Doesn't matter anyway, even if wasn't abysmal, it wouldn't be effective unless 1000's complained to HTC about it but we on XDA are the 1%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about sending me a PM of the "correct" way to write the petition and I will change it, in stead of just shooting it down.

"And don't get me wrong, I love Sense, but not at the expense of the Android Experience."
this is a petition, not your personal interest. rework your petition and i'll sign
"I will be keeping an eye on the next couple of phones released by HTC and if this trend of Sense comes first, then Android continues, I will be moving to a different manufacturer. If I found out about this earlier, I would have already taken the phone back to swap for a Galaxy S3."
this is threatening, htc will not even bother to read small time threats like this. this made your petition lose it's power
"Please sign this petition and let us see if we can change HTC's mind. Also share the link, tweet about it. You do not have to own a One X to sign the petition, you just have to feel that HTC is wrong."
now you're begging for signatures. lack of professionalism
"So in an effort to make their bloated Sense experience better and smoother they will break Android. We buy Android phones running Sense, not Sense phones running Android."
this point has no directions. what has it got to do with multi tasking?

shiningarmor said:
"And don't get me wrong, I love Sense, but not at the expense of the Android Experience."
this is a petition, not your personal interest. rework your petition and i'll sign
"I will be keeping an eye on the next couple of phones released by HTC and if this trend of Sense comes first, then Android continues, I will be moving to a different manufacturer. If I found out about this earlier, I would have already taken the phone back to swap for a Galaxy S3."
this is threatening, htc will not even bother to read small time threats like this. this made your petition lose it's power
"Please sign this petition and let us see if we can change HTC's mind. Also share the link, tweet about it. You do not have to own a One X to sign the petition, you just have to feel that HTC is wrong."
now you're begging for signatures. lack of professionalism
"So in an effort to make their bloated Sense experience better and smoother they will break Android. We buy Android phones running Sense, not Sense phones running Android."
this point has no directions. what has it got to do with multi tasking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it better now? Any further pointers are appreciated.

Good luck with that, maybe you should research your next phone a bit better then you might not be disappointed when you find it doesn't do what you want it to.

Online petitions achieve absolutely sod all.

Doesn't that advanced multitasking script help?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium