Develop Bugs

Who is planning to stick with WinMo7?

I made this poll last time, but this was around when the news of WP7 was just getting out. I'm sure that from then and now, we've learned a lot more about the OS and MS has released a lot more info regarding the OS. So with that being said, I was just curious to see if there were any change of hearts.
Vote on!

I plan on buying a windows phone whenever some nice looking hardware comes to Verizon. I might have to wait a while since ill have to buy one at full price because my upgrade isn't until 2012.

Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.

Dratini said:
Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a guy who is been around for a long time !!?. I respect your opinion but it is windows mobile what made this forum what it is today. So let it die?
It depends what kind of user you are, I have always been a fan of windows because its customizable, what is for me an added value. Now with the coming of mobile7, I dont know, but I´m sure we can support and make the OS better around here.
Iphone is in my opinion a hyped phone (especially the iphone4) and clearly is not as good as the previous versions because of its hardware malfunction.
Respecting Andriod, I like the phones and they are great but still I´m staying old fashioned and try and stick to WinMo.
As you can notice I will buy a phone with the new OS because I´m just curious and its flawless integrated with windows platforms in private and corporate perspective. What i believe is the advantage of Microsoft software.

I will buy a WP7 device in Germany as soon a device similar to the HD2 is released. For me are a display around 4 inch, arround 448 MB RAM, at least 16GB flash memory important. An amoled display is prefered.
Why WP7? As a developer I have with Silverlight much more fun and I have no fun to flash my device regularry to get the rom to a quality level that should be out of box. Is's a shame but big thanks to this board for making the good HD2 roms

Just waiting on what T-Mobile USA will bring us

Dratini said:
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!

OndraSter said:
Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?

As soon as Sprint gets a killer 4G enabled one. Bamn! I'm there.
Gota get on the leading edge again and start promoting the thing to my friends/family/co-workers/etc.

theomni said:
what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, WP7 has a lower target resolution than XBox and PCs. You also can use a lower resolution than the native resolution of WP7 and the phone will resize the image "for free" using a dedicated chip. To target the different input formats, you have to tweak the code and use conditional compilation (like #If Xbox; #If WP7; #If Windows). If you want to utilize the full potential of each platform, there may be many conditional compilation instructions, but it is possible. Depending on the architecture, the main game logic can remain the same and does not need (many) changes.

Ima stick with it. WP7 is nice.

Yep, just as Reihnold described it.
The main logic and core is the same, you just optimalize it for different input and ofc slower HW (but with coming Hummingbird etc we will see reaching Xbox on WVGA screen in few years I bet). You disable some cool effects etc, but you do that with those #If Xbox360 fxRainbow.Enable = true; #Endif etc, so nothing huge. Compared to Linux-Android it is something quite easy. Mostly because of awesome IDE.

Wouldn't consider anything else.

I will definitely buy one. Love MS products and services and using them all integrated on my phone is the biggest thing they could ever made!
Cloud is the future

I'd be more interested to know what percentage of people would switch to wp7 in an iphone and/or android forum really. That to me is a better indicator of how well wp7 will do at launch.

I eventually want to switch, but ill do it further down the line when the OS matures.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I voted for sticking with WP7, all the latest videos I've seen show how super smooth it is so I wont be switching to clunky Andriod anytime soon

I am waiting to actually see how well the office, RDP and other apps integrate into windows before I pull the trigger on one. I really could care less about facebook integration or twitter or any social networking. Sure I use facebook, but I want to keep my contacts seperate from my social networking. I want a business device first. Not to say I won't try one out, but I intend on keeping my Tilt2 around unless they release a WM6.5 handset with a keyboard and a faster processor and more RAM! like that will happen...
And if it comes to switching platforms, android is next in line. No apple products ever in my house.

kdj67f said:
No apple products ever in my house.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that

I am so ready to purchase one of Windows Phone 7 phones! Why? please... for those ppl who say WP7 is not as great as their beloved WM 6 series, you gotta let your ego go. And yes, i have HD2. So this is a customer with experiences with hacking my device and use cooked ROMs. And yes i hate using cooked ROMs. Althogh i use cooked ROMs that looks like stock version atm. But i am planning to purchase it in this holiday or wait for htc to announce HD3 the beast! I really want my phone to have 1.5ghz or something downgraded clocked duo cpu.

Now MS/WP7 is the only major OS without tablet support (mini-rant)

It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.

Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.

z33dev33l said:
Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since Palm got bought out by the colossal HP and since WebOS has managed to survive these past few months and still somehow stay relevant, I'd say that yeah they can be considered one of the major OS' now. HP is being pretty damn aggressive with WebOS (the Pre 3 and Touchpad look fantastic) and has finally made the hardware to match the software.
That's what I mean though. The average consumer has proved that time and again they do not want normal bloated desktop Windows on a tablet. It's not nearly as intuitive as iOS or even Android, and since Microsoft has to compete with those desktop Windows is not enough anymore.

Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.

the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...

z33dev33l said:
Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? I was always pretty impressed by WebOS and thought it was far and away better looking and easier to use than Android or Blackberry. I always considered it "the grown up version of iOS" because the gestures and dynamic UI elements are just so much more advanced yet Palm kept things so simple and intuitive.
But I still drool every time I turn on my Focus
The Gate Keeper said:
the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true after today. The only phone that has the old low resolution is the Veer but since it's on such a small screen it actually increases the overall ppi. The new Pre 3 has a 800x480 screen and the new Touchpad has 1024x768.

If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.

My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.

foxbat121 said:
If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm hoping for and it seems pretty obvious that's where MS is headed.
But I'm still worried about the touch experience of the major competing tablets versus Windows. I'm really praying that MS introduces a Windows 8 that scales to whatever platform its on--for example you'd see a complex and traditional looking Windows on your desktop PC but if you had Windows 8 on your tablet it would have a Metro-based UI like WP7.
PG2G said:
My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your first point completely and that is definitely the direction MS needs to go.
You're also right about iOS. I own an iPad and despite being pretty powerful it also looks downright primitive compared to Android 3.0, Rim's QNX, and WebOS 3.0. But tablets honestly make a lot of sense as a laptop or at least a netbook replacement--it's easier to use, almost instant-on, and an overall more entertaining experience.

OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
....
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet

WhyBe said:
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, their tablets should theoretically be more powerful. But I don't want my shiny new Windows-powered tablet to only last 4 hours on a charge and I especially don't want to deal with all of the Windows programs that all look and function differently. The result is a completely inconsistent experience. I love Windows 7 as a desktop OS, but I don't think I could stand it on a tablet.
And just because Microsoft has been making tablets for longer than anyone else doesn't exactly mean they did a good job. Apple showed them that and now everyone is scrambling to come out with a competitor and--surprise surprise--they're not running Windows 7.
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.

OGCF said:
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A windows 8 tablet that could run WP7 apps would be the best solution and not at all impossible.
But if MS delivers on the UE and UI enhancements purported for Windows 8, there probably will be little need for WP7 apps. I'm guessing power consumption would improve with the newer mobile chipsets and OS enhancements.

OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I consider Win7 to be the perfect tablet OS. I would rather use Win7 on any tablet than any of the tablet-specific OS currently available, even the iPad's iOS. In fact, it is one reason I'm considering a netbook, because of Win7. The way I look at it, a netbook, to me, is a supercharged tablet with a physical keyboard....lack of touchscreen, no consequence.

put on a physical keyboard and Win7 becomes usable. For a proper touchscreen tablet I think Win7 (or any Win for that matter) really blows. Not touch friendly at all.
I have 2 Android tablets and 1 Win7 tablet. The Win7 tablet is a 10.2" capacitive. If I need to do something Win specific then I use the Win tablet, otherwise Android is first choice. If MS could give Win7 a touch friendly UI they would have a winner IMO.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk

I've got an HP TM2 which is basically is a laptop with a touchscreen. The screen turns through 180 degrees and folds flat over the keyboard and turns the machine into a Windows 7 tablet.
I bought it to see how much I would use it as a tablet, compared to how much I'd use it as a normal laptop.
My conclusion after several months is that I use it as a laptop 90% of the time. The main reasons for this are;
1) As a tablet you have to hold it, or rest it against something. In laptop mode I just place it on a table or my lap and I have both hands free for typing, and I can still use the touchscreen.
2) Typing anything on a touchscreen is a pain - you have to grasp the machine with one hand and type with the other, or find a way to prop it up on something if you want to use two fingers. Frankly it's a pain and I always ended up swapping back to laptop mode and using the hardware keyboard
In conclusion I don't personally rate tablets at all - like netbooks I think they're a fad that we will eventually get over and go back to laptops.
I for one will stick with my TM2 - I do like being able to use the touchscreen aspects of Windows 7 and occasionally flip it into tablet mode if the whim takes me, but tablet mode in no way replaces the laptop mode. Just no way.
An iPad would drive me mad!

I've been using WP7 on my HD7 since October.
On an almost daily basis, I think to myself that this OS would be magnificent on a larger (7 or 10 inch screen), with panaramas expanded out to a widescreen format.
With WP7, the lines are so clean and the text so large and clear that it seems ideal for a tablet. App developers would not need to dramatically re-engineer their apps for the different resolution. WP7, as a platform, does not require dual processors, TEGRA and all of that, so they could easily build a light and long-battery-life tablet with WP7 as the platform.
I would imagine there is major friction at MS regarding the future of MS tablets; the Windows team want to see Windows 7 (or some flavour of it) running on a tablet, whereas I'm sure the WP7 team can see the immediate advantages of upscaling WP7 to a tablet OS (finger-friendly out of the box, app store already established etc.
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't see myself enjoying Windows 7 on a tablet. Installing apps, arsing around with disk cleanup every few months, constantly installing Windows Updates, dealing with legacy apps specifically designed for a mouse and definitely not a finger... would totally take the fun out of a tablet. WP7 is fun! Put that on a tablet! Think of the following apps, modified slightly to take advantage of the widescreen format, running on a WP7 tablet:
Netflix
Cocktail Flow
Amazon Kindle Reader
IMDB app
Twitter
Facebook
Flickr from Yahoo
Pictures app
Messaging
Microsoft seriously seem to be missing a trick here.

the actual reason windows phone apps would work so well on tablets is because it is silverlight. and silverlight was initially designed for a desktop, meaning it was designed with varied resolution in mind. then it was ported to the phone, so really silverlight is the ideal solution for any screen size, big or small.

Microsoft has been doing tablets for 10 years. They just never really tweaked it for touch friendliness. Plus they've been expensive as hell.
This stuff is old to Microsoft , but somehow they seem to be playing catch up as usual.

Windows running on ARM sounds interesting in theory, but what about applications? Adobe will have to release Photoshop for ARM as well if you want to use it there.
And if it will be limited to managed code (Silverlight/XNA/whatever/.Net) then there's no point in having the "big" version there.

There are enough tablets on this planet already. We don't need more, it's not a big deal if MS does not have a tablet. MS has a lot of things most of its competitors don't have and they are not crying about it. God

Thinking about jumpingto wp7

I am thinkingabout buying a Windowsphone 7 device from at&t in December when I can upgrade. My inspire 4g may not be able to run jellybean this year and I am tired of androidbeing sluggish and fragmented. I love the simplicity I can see in videos of windows phone and with the titan 2 starting up the ne let featurein windows phones I think it would be a good idea for some change. !*BUT*! I am worried about when Apollo comes out my phone MIGHT not be upgraded and I would be stuck with an old outdated phone for a year. I was also wondering what kind of hacking community there is and what kind of hacks there are. If somebody could post all of the pros and cons of windowsphone compared to android and the hacking comunity
To restate my questions I want to.know:
1)what are the pros and cons of windows phone compare to android
2) what kind of hacking community is there for windows phone and what hacks and mods are there
3) will it be upgraded to Apollo(I know that no one can say for sure but there are some sources I'm sure that have an idea)
Thanks in advance for any replies
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA

Well the hacking community on android is much larger than the one for windows phone, and plus there are not quite as many things that you can change in windows phone as you can in android. Another problem is that if you get a second gen windows phone you will not be able to unlock it unless you get a Microsoft developer account, I think it is called an "app hub" account. Even then there will not be many things that you could side load onto your phone. The only gen 2 windows phones that can be unlocked are the Samsung ones, from this one opening called "windows break". The pros with windows phones are simplicity, no lag over time(my android experience, fast in the beginning slow over time) but the cons are the customization of the phone and things like that. Well there is a large chance that all windows phone will get upgraded to Apollo, but they wont have all of the features that the Apollo devices will have.

lovenokia said:
Well the hacking community on android is much larger than the one for windows phone, and plus there are not quite as many things that you can change in windows phone as you can in android. Another problem is that if you get a second gen windows phone you will not be able to unlock it unless you get a Microsoft developer account, I think it is called an "app hub" account. Even then there will not be many things that you could side load onto your phone. The only gen 2 windows phones that can be unlocked are the Samsung ones, from this one opening called "windows break". The pros with windows phones are simplicity, no lag over time(my android experience, fast in the beginning slow over time) but the cons are the customization of the phone and things like that. Well there is a large chance that all windows phone will get upgraded to Apollo, but they wont have all of the features that the Apollo devices will have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know the development community is small but would you mind giving an example or two of the changesyou can make...it seems good enough jump right? Would you recommend switc? And thanks a bu.ch for the help!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA

I think it's too early for you to post if it's 1 year from now on.
You really mean December?
As far as I understand, latest gen WPs will have the highest possiblity up upgrade, Lumia 800-900, Titan II
---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 AM ----------
1)what are the pros and cons of windows phone compare to android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hated android up to 4.0 and it still sucks for me, too much lag, fragmentation, piracy concerns over Google, etc. Yes, not a fan of Android in general so hard to not be biased.
I think WP is the new king of innovation, it was Apple with the original iPhone first but not they just sue and copy.
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-flattered-with-apples-ios-5-windows-phone-features/
TL;DR WP is simply beautiful, snappy and intuitive

If it's hacking and modding you're looking for, Windows Phone isn't your ideal OS--you want Android. You're not going to get custom ROMs and a wide selection of homebrew root-user apps on Windows Phone. That stuff doesn't exist.
If, however, you're looking for a cohesive, refined, "authentically digital" user experience and interface, Windows Phone is the place to be. It's beautiful and fluid in ways that Android will never be.
And if you're looking to develop, Windows Phone is a great place to start. It doesn't have the horrendous up-front cost of developing for iPhone, and it doesn't have the fragmentation/emulator problems of developing for Android. The emulator works great, and if you want to publish to the market or sideload onto your phone, it's only $100--free if you're a student!

well the cons for windows phone are simply that it isn't as customizable as android is and also currently does not support USB mass storage ,this has been a problem for some and may be a problem for you but I haven't really missed it because of SkyDrive and how it's integrated into the phone. Mass storage will be even more unnecessary with win8.
The pros are that it has more integrated services than Android does out the box and that it doesn't need 4 cores to run smooth and stable. It also provides a top notch, innovative and beautiful experience. All phones especially the ones that shipped with mango will be updated to Apollo. But since you won't be upgrading till December I'm sure there will be phones around that time with Apollo pre installed.

Why is this the new chant "4 cores to run smooth"? It is not even true.
trh1341, would you be able to run through what exactly you use your phone for now? What apps do you use? Features? Are you looking to buy out of contract or on a plan?

nicksti said:
Why is this the new chant "4 cores to run smooth"? It is not even true.
trh1341, would you be able to run through what exactly you use your phone for now? What apps do you use? Features? Are you looking to buy out of contract or on a plan?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't do to much...I have a couple games but other than that I really only listen to music and look aroundon the internet I sometimes stream music...I really just. Need a phone that runs smooth and can get me throughthe day when listeningto music with SOME web browsing...can windows pho.e do that well you think?
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA

trh1341 said:
Well I don't do to much...I have a couple games but other than that I really only listen to music and look aroundon the internet I sometimes stream music...I really just. Need a phone that runs smooth and can get me throughthe day when listeningto music with SOME web browsing...can windows pho.e do that well you think?
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For that? Yes, WP is perfect for that. Internet browsing is fluid and quick- there's no lag in scrolling or zooming, the download speeds for pages are pretty equivalent, and IE is actually a stunningly good mobile browser.
For music streaming, you can stream from Google Music with an app, from Skydrive, or - if you want a real premium service, Zune's streaming is the best out of all the mobile ecosystems.

fleon888 said:
For that? Yes, WP is perfect for that. Internet browsing is fluid and quick- there's no lag in scrolling or zooming, the download speeds for pages are pretty equivalent, and IE is actually a stunningly good mobile browser.
For music streaming, you can stream from Google Music with an app, from Skydrive, or - if you want a real premium service, Zune's streaming is the best out of all the mobile ecosystems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much is skydive and zine? Sorry for all these dumb questions
I am hopingthe titan 2 will be out by December
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA

SkyDrive gives you 25GB for free with 50 (or maybe 100MB) file size limitations. I believe this is free and you will be able to access your content and stream this way.
Zune's Music pass is $9.99 subscription based service for streaming music. I have never used it but I hear good things from users.
The Titan 2 seems like quite a large phone for that purpose. And I am not sure what kind of battery life that phone will achieve.

I have a titan 1 and get about 17 hours life out of it. That is using the internet, texting, exchange mail, hotmail (both pushed), Comcast, and 2 other email accounts checking every hour.
For streaming. There is also a pandora client although not official, tune in radio is simply awesome as it will find all your local radio stations for any city, it includes an fm radio in every windows phone, don't have to subscribe to zune, you can also just purchase music which also syncs to your pc, slacker radio, iheartradio. Lots of music choices.
For fun, - I lol'd, that's what she said, the chive, and urban dictionary rock + all have live tiles.
For weather - i am now using a paid app called amazing weather which has animations. Weather channel is really good for free and so is accuweather. all have live tiles to show you current weather on home screen without opening app.
Games - where to start. Yeti sports is fun. Splinter cell. Need for speed undercover and hot pursuit. For free - titan rocks. I still haven't completed it.
Windows phone has trials for most games so check them out.
Messenger . Video chat - facebook is built in along with windows live, twitter and link'nd in
IM+ is pretty good as a multimessenger. Skype although it's beta and contacts must be loaded from the pc version. Tango works pretty well also.
Facebook also has a seperate client.
Forward contact is cool. It changes your business card into a QR code that any phone can scan in using a qr reader.
Barcode reading is built in although there was a few it couldnt find. Shop savy makes up for it and is free.
Keyring - scan all your grocerie cards in so you don't have to carry them
HTC flashlight - Since windows phone voice opens apps, this rocks. press the windows button and say start flashlight and it will come on. Great for finding your keys when you forget to turn porch light on.

ROCOAFZ said:
I have a titan 1 and get about 17 hours life out of it. That is using the internet, texting, exchange mail, hotmail (both pushed), Comcast, and 2 other email accounts checking every hour.
For streaming. There is also a pandora client although not official, tune in radio is simply awesome as it will find all your local radio stations for any city, it includes an fm radio in every windows phone, don't have to subscribe to zune, you can also just purchase music which also syncs to your pc, slacker radio, iheartradio. Lots of music choices.
For fun, - I lol'd, that's what she said, the chive, and urban dictionary rock + all have live tiles.
For weather - i am now using a paid app called amazing weather which has animations. Weather channel is really good for free and so is accuweather. all have live tiles to show you current weather on home screen without opening app.
Games - where to start. Yeti sports is fun. Splinter cell. Need for speed undercover and hot pursuit. For free - titan rocks. I still haven't completed it.
Windows phone has trials for most games so check them out.
Messenger . Video chat - facebook is built in along with windows live, twitter and link'nd in
IM+ is pretty good as a multimessenger. Skype although it's beta and contacts must be loaded from the pc version. Tango works pretty well also.
Facebook also has a seperate client.
Forward contact is cool. It changes your business card into a QR code that any phone can scan in using a qr reader.
Barcode reading is built in although there was a few it couldnt find. Shop savy makes up for it and is free.
Keyring - scan all your grocerie cards in so you don't have to carry them
HTC flashlight - Since windows phone voice opens apps, this rocks. press the windows button and say start flashlight and it will come on. Great for finding your keys when you forget to turn porch light on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probablyone of the most complete answers I have ever seen! Thanks very much! I want the titan 2 becauseof the lte
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA

Perhaps I've missed something but: if you're waiting until December, then Apollo should be out by then.
In which case you'll know whether or not the current phones are being upgraded and you'll know what newly released phones with Apollo pre-installed are available.
Casey

trh1341 said:
This is probablyone of the most complete answers I have ever seen! Thanks very much! I want the titan 2 becauseof the lte
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ty
The titan is my 2nd windows phone. I have been using windows phone since pre nodo when it was released. My original phone was a surround which i still have. My wife sold her iphone because she was trying to cut our bill down and since i got my titan for a penny, she has been using my surround to play games and check facebook - She doesn't like technology though so she still won't stick her sim card in it and use it as a phone (without a data plan) but windows phone is slowly winning her over with the ease of use and games that are the style she likes (she plays the simple ones)
If you are waiting on the titan 2 though ... i would suggest getting the nokia 900 instead. Screen is a little smaller... but Nokia is top notch in quality. I love my titan, but if i could get a Nokia 900 with front facing camera and clear black technology (look up what that does and you will see why) I'd trade my titan in, in a heartbeat.

i agree with the guy above me, nokia is the way to go and their phones are just beautiful, plus on a biased note i cannot stand tablet sized screens.
i was in the same boat as you back in october, but i knew it was time to switch because i just didnt have time to hack and mod to have android run smoother. android is such a hassle, i regret ever wasting time with it. wp7 is so convenient and smooth. zune pass is great if you want to find great music haha, i find like 2 new artists a day.
so based on your daily uses i would definitely suggest wp u wont regret it. and go for a nokia device not htc, they have started to make crappy phones over the past 2 years.

I actually get great battery life out of my Titan too. At the end of business day, I have about 70+% battery life remaining. Thats heavy texting, mid to heavy calls, mild games and mid to heavy use of music.

Originally Posted by trh1341
This is probablyone of the most complete answers I have ever seen! Thanks very much! I want the titan 2 becauseof the lte
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ty
The titan is my 2nd windows phone. I have been using windows phone since pre nodo when it was released. My original phone was a surround which i still have. My wife sold her iphone because she was trying to cut our bill down and since i got my titan for a penny, she has been using my surround to play games and check facebook - She doesn't like technology though so she still won't stick her sim card in it and use it as a phone (without a data plan) but windows phone is slowly winning her over with the ease of use and games that are the style she likes (she plays the simple ones)
If you are waiting on the titan 2 though ... i would suggest getting the nokia 900 instead. Screen is a little smaller... but Nokia is top notch in quality. I love my titan, but if i could get a Nokia 900 with front facing camera and clear black technology (look up what that does and you will see why) I'd trade my titan in, in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Titan really has no front facing camera?? Thanks again all of you! I will probably go for the Nokia....same size screen ad my inspire
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA

trh1341 said:
The Titan really has no front facing camera?? Thanks again all of you! I will probably go for the Nokia....same size screen ad my inspire
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you got him wrong. The Titan sports a 1.3mp front facing camera.

Get a HTC trophy.

[Believable or not?] Windows Phone 8 is not supported by current Windows Phone Gens

http://wmpoweruser.com/german-busin...te-for-current-handsets-to-settle-for-wp-7-7/
The German Business Week ‘(WiWo), claiming sources from Microsoft and Nokia, has confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will not be coming to the current generation of Windows Phones.
These handsets will recieve a stripped down version of Windows Phone 8 which may be called Windows Phone 7.6 or 7.7.
The publication reports ”An update is not technically possible because Windows Mobile 8 <-- WUT? uses different chip sets.”
Microsoft apparently expects current Windows Phone users to be happy with this solution, with a Microsoft manager quoted as saying: ”If people have the same functions on their smartphones, they do not care what version number the operating system is.”
Microsoft has previously alluded to Apple forcing customers to buy new handsets by releasing updates which slow down their current phones, so this solution appears to have been in the works for some time.
What do our readers think of this (likely) solution? Let us know below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe Beofiore or Scott Gu hasn't said a word, we will have to wait.
But believable or not? I don't think so, Microsoft used to confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will come to all 2nd Gen Devices.
Your Opinion?

Doesn't matter , I'm getting a Apollo device. I heard current devices would be getting WP 7.7 or 7.6 anyways , stripped down Apollo
Bye bye Zune, hello Xbox Music.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

^
Do you have any info for the XBOX Music and the Application that we are going to control the Music in Windows 8?
The current Music App in Windows 8 is pretty bad, lacks of customization like Zune and got all of my Singer wrong Bio.

anybody Who writes about Windows Phone and calls it "Windows Mobile" is not worth trust! Windows Mobile is the past, and Windows Phone is now!

Strike_Eagle said:
^
Do you have any info for the XBOX Music and the Application that we are going to control the Music in Windows 8?
The current Music App in Windows 8 is pretty bad, lacks of customization like Zune and got all of my Singer wrong Bio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its preview, so its not complete. I haven't updated to latest preview yet, so I have no idea if it has gotten better.
The Music app now is basically the one from the 360. I hope it gets better, and I also hope we won't have to download additional software for syncing the phones.
Edit
http://m.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-gadgeteer/goodbye-zune-hello-xbox-music/5803
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

As what was shown at E3 for Xbox Music, the Nokia Lumia 800 is running the same interface as the Xbox and Windows 8. So it is unlikely that it will be a separate app, otherwise it will end up like Spotify or iHeartRadio.
It is likely that Microsoft will update current windows phones to replace its current Zune branding, and maybe make it compatible with windows 8 synchronization. Or there is still hope that Windows Phone 8 will come to current windows phone devices.

We need a Apollo thread. I'm certain apps like these will come over faster with native coding
http://m.networkworld.com/news/2012/060612-microsoft-onx-259898.html?hpg1=bn
Its basically MS version of tasker
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Dinchy87 said:
anybody Who writes about Windows Phone and calls it "Windows Mobile" is not worth trust! Windows Mobile is the past, and Windows Phone is now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google translate screwed up, the source says windows phone

Well, I would agree it is the same if WP7 would share the same attribute as WP8, like native API and WP8 apps compatibility.
Otherwise what he said same experience is simply not about right, at least the background run, launch speed and performance are not the same as WP8 with same hardware.

Can't believe that Nokia and MS don't support at least the second gen devices! And there were at least enough rumours for the other way round.
And technically speaking, it should be possible as Windows Phone 8 is pretty likely to support ARM like Windows 8 itself! The "incompatible chipset stuff" is just rubbish in my eyes!
Well, new handsets will feature new hardware and more capabilities but in the end I' pretty sure that they will make also low-end WP8 device with pretty much the same specs as current high-end WP7 device!

read the original article:
http://blog.wiwo.de/look-at-it/2012...-losung-fur-update-problem-bei-windows-phone/
this guy has no proof at all. he says he heard it from 2 sources (which of course are not named, he has no evidence etc.) and he names some unknown "microsoft manager" who told him some stuff.
also "An update is not technically possible because Windows Phone 8 uses different chipsets." is a pretty lame statement. When I can compile my linux kernels to run on different architectures I would think that MS can do this too.

drill_sarge said:
also "An update is not technically possible because Windows Phone 8 uses different chipsets." is a pretty lame statement. When I can compile my linux kernels to run on different architectures I would think that MS can do this too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lumia 900 is heard to get an Upgrade but Lumia 800 wont (Nokia Online Helpdesk http://wparea.de/2012/06/nokia-care-das-lumia-900-wird-ein-update-auf-wp8-apollo-erhalten/). The only difference between these devices is that the chipset of the 900 supports LTE. So according to the rest of the hardware (Single Core Snapdragon S2, ARMv7) the 800 should support WP8, as all other phones should, too.

Well that's bad news for me; I have a first gen HTC Trophy; I doubt I will get the Apollo update after reading this, Oh well.

Hmm, sounds like crap if you ask me, different chipsets? presumably it still means ARM and we're not all going to go all x86.
I think its safe to say, that WP8 will get released to new hardware, it will have many new swanky features.
Said swankiness will filter down through current win 7 devices IF said feature is available on the device.
I think that's a fair thing to expect. To say we are not getting WP8 is perhaps a bit misleading though, more accurately is that we will get updates that our devices can support.
All in all I am sure we can be confidant that we will get some form of update, without a list of WP8 specs its difficult to say how much of it we can expect to receive.

Should know on the 20th
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Do or die
The Windows Phone 8 release on 20th would be just a proof of concept device, if there is a presentation at all.
However it will spark the rumour mills and as always, Microsoft will leave out enough info to make us all keep wondering. In a way it creates a sense of suspense which will help make the phone more visible on the internet with lots of people speculating stuff. Would be a smart move to do so IMO.
That said, if they don't support WP8 on 900, people will hate them. If they support it, then there is no real reason not to support 800, 710 and the other second gens. Microsoft will not leave the lower end market out (tango), hence first gen has a great chance if 610 has a chance.
After all, Microsoft doesn't want to lose what little they have so soon.

According to a Tweet by MS_Nerd (one of those notoriously unreliable leakers) Microsoft will bring 2 OSs going forward.
The one which the Business Week called WP7.6 oder 7.7 is going to be named WP8, still based on the CE-Kernel and likely to include most of the features that the NT-Version is going to bring along.
The one which Business Week called WP8 is to be named Windows RT phone (as it is based on Windows RT - the Windows 8 version that is running ARM).
So we most likely will get WP8 with most of the features, but Microsoft introduces a new version for High End Phones including Multi Core support. WP8 will live on for the mid- to low-range Market.
At least that is what we can puzzle together if those 2 leaks are to be confirmed. Although it was pretty clear from the beginning that old devices would be missing out on some features when WP8 came along due to missing processing power/memory.

I don't think that MS would want to keep two different WP versions that have different kernel. Too much code to take care of IMHO.

Well I really hope that Windows Phone 8 will be way diffrent than WP now. Hopefully an opption to ad a start screen wallpaper instead of just the lame old lock screen wallpaper. Also I hope they let us have an unlocked file system so that we could browse our files instead of this BS where we have to use Zune currently. In other words hopefully the new WP will save us from the current one like Windows 7 saved us from Vista.

Tiles that can change sizes
Folders
Tiles with real information instead of badges, ie the missed call, and email tile will show real information
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Android - will android ever go native if not y not ?

The newest Android phones have insane - 2GB - amounts of RAM and 4 cores and most people - hopefully not the ones here - say "WOW! Android phones are SOOO much better than iPhones and Windows Phones cause they have WAYYY more memory and 4 cores! I'm buying an Android cause it's gonna be so much faster"
But the reason why they have so much memory and cores is because apps are written in Java which needs a Virtual Machine which needs memory and more processing power compared to a native app. I'm sure there's caveats to above statement but that's the gist of it.
And the sad part is that all the extra processing power still doesn't make up Java. Just compare the fluidity of Ookla's Speedtest app. The needle doesn't even stutter in Android; it updates at .2 frames/sec while in iOS it behaves like a needle, though this may be due to lazy use of the Android API.
So given its inherent limitation and ESPECIALLY on a mobile platform, WTF did Google use Java as their framework?
It's not as if people don't also know C++.
If you want automatic memory management in C++ like Java, use boost's smart pointer.
Done.
If Apple and Microsoft can make a native SDK, why can't Google?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Beats me man.. Google try to make the OS as open as possible by using c++.. But its isn't done very efficiently sadly

man i've already given up on google. they don't take android seriously. it's the same reason they don't check apps before they're published, why we have bugs from 1.6 still in 4.1+

I agree, for android to use the true potential of all the amazing specs there needs to be some changes. The word on the street is that KLP is supposed to be better optimized to use the hardware on our devices.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app

sharkboy0901 said:
I agree, for android to use the true potential of all the amazing specs there needs to be some changes. The word on the street is that KLP is supposed to be better optimized to use the hardware on our devices.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what was supposed to b so special about ics and jellybean... im losing faith n hope...
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

interesting. i want this question answered. why did google make that decision? only because java is easier perhaps?

Google used Java for the purposes of RAD - Rapid Application Development. Plently of people know and code in Java, so, for the purposes of rapidly ecosystem growth, Google went with Java. It was fairly sensible decision to do this, to me at least. Java isn't so much an overhead issue as it was two or three years ago, thanks in part to the beastly hardware that most phones ship with now.

this is the answer i was looking for, it makes sense and thats what i assumed. (minus knowing RAD)

Yeah, on the programming front Java is convenient to work with but for anything performance intensive it's still pretty lacking. I'm sure if Google could they would gut the Java implementation for something else but the sheer number of problems that would cause is pretty ridiculous so that's a no go. At least if the rumors are true then Google is going to start scaling back system requirements in their next Android releases instead of rasing them everytime they "improve performance".

Its my belief that yes ditching java and going native is and would cause real problems know but in the long run it would be more effective and better for the developers and end user to have android go native...
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

bigfdaddy2 said:
The newest Android phones have insane - 2GB - amounts of RAM and 4 cores and most people - hopefully not the ones here - say "WOW! Android phones are SOOO much better than iPhones and Windows Phones cause they have WAYYY more memory and 4 cores! I'm buying an Android cause it's gonna be so much faster"
But the reason why they have so much memory and cores is because apps are written in Java which needs a Virtual Machine which needs memory and more processing power compared to a native app. I'm sure there's caveats to above statement but that's the gist of it.
And the sad part is that all the extra processing power still doesn't make up Java. Just compare the fluidity of Ookla's Speedtest app. The needle doesn't even stutter in Android; it updates at .2 frames/sec while in iOS it behaves like a needle, though this may be due to lazy use of the Android API.
So given its inherent limitation and ESPECIALLY on a mobile platform, WTF did Google use Java as their framework?
It's not as if people don't also know C++.
If you want automatic memory management in C++ like Java, use boost's smart pointer.
Done.
If Apple and Microsoft can make a native SDK, why can't Google?
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aaaactually, Google didnt make the decision to use Java at all. Android Inc. and these guys listed below did.
"Android, Inc. was founded in Palo Alto, California in October 2003 by Andy Rubin (co-founder of Danger),[25] Rich Miner (co-founder of Wildfire Communications, Inc.),[26] Nick Sears[27] (once VP at T-Mobile), and Chris White (headed design and interface development at WebTV)[10] to develop, in Rubin's words "smarter mobile devices that are more aware of its owner's location and preferences".[10] The early intentions of the company were to develop an advanced operating system for digital cameras."
"Google acquired Android Inc. on August 17, 2005, making it a wholly owned subsidiary of Google. Key employees of Android Inc., including Rubin, Miner and White, stayed at the company after the acquisition.[10] Not much was known about Android Inc. at the time, but many assumed that Google was planning to enter the mobile phone market with this move.[10] At Google, the team led by Rubin developed a mobile device platform powered by the Linux kernel."

Except...there is a native SDK. It's called the NDK. Our phones don't even use the entire JDK. We use a small subset of it and even the VM isn't 100% of what the JVM is.
Your statements are very misleading, leading the unaware reader to think that we're basically running a JVM on our phones and that's why they're slow.
Maybe you should do some research before complaining OP.
Sent from my buttered S3

CNexus said:
Except...there is a native SDK. It's called the NDK. Our phones don't even use the entire JDK. We use a small subset of it and even the VM isn't 100% of what the JVM is.
Your statements are very misleading, leading the unaware reader to think that we're basically running a JVM on our phones and that's why they're slow.
Maybe you should do some research before complaining OP.
Sent from my buttered S3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not miss leading our phones still impliment use of jdk... i just wanted to know y and r they ever gonna be fully native... i had to explain the way i understood it ... hence the question ....u dont c windows phone and or ios using the same blending of part native part jdk... again whats miss leading about that?
im not bashing any of them just a question n wanted to have better knowledge y this or that?

bigfdaddy2 said:
So given its inherent limitation and ESPECIALLY on a mobile platform, WTF did Google use Java as their framework?
It's not as if people don't also know C++.
If you want automatic memory management in C++ like Java, use boost's smart pointer.
Done.
If Apple and Microsoft can make a native SDK, why can't Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no native C++ SDK for iOS. Yes, you can mix C++ and Objective-C in one project, but all platform API is still in Objective-C.
Microsoft released native SDK just to simplify porting OpenGL games to their platform, because almost nobody wanted to port large games to C#/XNA. And as I know, Microsoft's native SDK is still very limited in capabilities (it's similar to Android's NDK).
Full-featured native C++ SDK is actually not needed for Android. NDK is enough for OpenGL games, and Java API is enough for other apps.

knutson said:
There is no native C++ SDK for iOS. Yes, you can mix C++ and Objective-C in one project, but all platform API is still in Objective-C.
Microsoft released native SDK just to simplify porting OpenGL games to their platform, because almost nobody wanted to port large games to C#/XNA. And as I know, Microsoft's native SDK is still very limited in capabilities (it's similar to Android's NDK).
Full-featured native C++ SDK is actually not needed for Android. NDK is enough for OpenGL games, and Java API is enough for other apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ty for explaining better then just riping me a new one lol...
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2