Develop Bugs

'n00b' Bashing

I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!​
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...

sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another

BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.

Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.

shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy

Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.

While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.

GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.

shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy

Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/

one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'

Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.

You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.

levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!

that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".

I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend

yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out

Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.

Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.

I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?

Rooting Help, EVO 4G Noob

I have just moved over from an iPhone, which I had used for the past 3 years. I love my Evo but want to be able to do more with it through rooting. I have read many guides and can never get it to root or understand half of the terminology. My current setup is an EVO 4G with Android 2.2, software build: 3.26.651.3, and baseband: 2.15.00.07.28. Am I able to root this setup and what all is needed. There may not be a method for this setup yet which is fine. I am just very new to all of this and would love to understand it and get to work on the underlying beauties of Froyo. Thanks.

You currently can't root that build yet. I'm sure it will happen sooner than later. I would just stay tuned for now and keep reading up on roms, terminology, etc. so that you are more familiar with everything when the time comes.

no way to root that yet. i don't think it will be too long though. read through some guides, and study up in the meantime. you'll be better off when a method is ready.

Wrong Section not sure how rooting your phone is considered "Development" unless you have discovered ROOT.

zone23 said:
Wrong Section
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Here come the mods in training!!!!

I suggest learning everything you can before rooting, I knower howe easy jail breaking an iphone is, this is not as easy but as long as you read you should be fine and its ask pretty easy. You will get it. Oh and my suggestion use search there is alot of flaming that can be avoided by searching and posting in the correct forum

DanBergundy said:
Here come the mods in training!!!!
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If no one points it out, no one would learn.

cloud858rk said:
If no one points it out, no one would learn.
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This ^
See my post here for Explanation: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7467897&postcount=12
And for those who wish to argue that point and call everyone jerks for saying "wrong forum" see here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7480503&postcount=16
And for those that wish to continue to attempt to prove an already wrong point, see here: http://www.wwwdotcom.com/

cloud858rk said:
If no one points it out, no one would learn.
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Doesn't mean you can't answer their question so they don't have to respond back while also NICELY guiding them to the right section. (saves time and keeps the community nice)

the question was answered above so i dont think in this case they really needed to answer it again so that they could point out that the person posted in the wrong forum : \
also as an honest question how is you criticizing them for pointing out the op is in the wrong forum on every thread different then them?
honestly i think "noobs" will always just post where they want as many are only around to get questions answered as quickly as possible with as little effort as possible (nothing really wrong with that per say) and could careless about anything else. With people posting in the wrong section you will always have people complaining its in the wrong section so do we really need to add 2 new groups to this ? the people complaining about the person pointing out wrong forum and the person complaining about them to the list?
I would suggest learning to live with it and we can all pray for a forum utopia where everyone posts where they are supposed to, no one flames, and everyone learns how to search.

omegasun18 said:
the question was answered above so i dont think in this case they really needed to answer it again so that they could point out that the person posted in the wrong forum : \
also as an honest question how is you criticizing them for pointing out the op is in the wrong forum on every thread different then them?
honestly i think "noobs" will always just post where they want as many are only around to get questions answered as quickly as possible with as little effort as possible (nothing really wrong with that per say) and could careless about anything else. With people posting in the wrong section you will always have people complaining its in the wrong section so do we really need to add 2 new groups to this ? the people complaining about the person pointing out wrong forum and the person complaining about them to the list?
I would suggest learning to live with it and we can all pray for a forum utopia where everyone posts where they are supposed to, no one flames, and everyone learns how to search.
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Or they could restrict posting new topics in this forum completely and make a subforum off it for users to post and be reviewed and be moved into this forum after it was deemed development worthy, thereby eliminating the ability to post in the forum altogether. Works well in a lot of other forums I've been on and moderated before.

[FYI]If You're New to Modding/Rooting, Read This First! (Updated 08/05/10)

[highlight]Mod Edit: @Mikey or overground: I have stuck this thread in here, but I will let both of you decide on the future of this sticky as I don't want to step on your toes in the organization of such stickies. It is a pretty good "Read First" thread and should remain stuck IMHO.
egzthunder1[/highlight]
When you start to look into rooting your phone, remember what Uncle Ben said:
"With great power comes great responsibility."
I struggled with whether to post this thread under "Development" or "General." I didn't see anything similar already under Development, and I firmly believe a thread such as this needs to be front and center in the Development area. As the OTA has been leaked (twice!), more and more inexperienced "junior modders" have started to comment in the forums. This is all well and good, but there really should be a central, basic tutorial including terms, do's and don'ts, etc. available to those that need it, while at the same time cleaning up the threads for specific ROMs from non-ROM-specific questions.
With that being said, I am going to post some basic guidelines/facts below. If you believe any of this information is not correct, please PM me so that we can come to a collaborative agreement without spreading confusion within the thread.
General Information for Beginners (Please At Least Read This Info!)
1. ROOTING IS NOT FOR EVERYONE! Please don't root because it's "cool" if you don't have any idea what you're doing. There really is nothing wrong with waiting for the official OTAs, etc. If you want to experiment with your phone, I applaud you - but see #2.
2. Always read ALL of the directions in a thread FIRST. Keep in mind that many threads will direct you to yet another thread for full instructions on a process - read those instructions entirely too!
3. Once you read the instructions. FOLLOW THEM. Do not take shortcuts. If you do, you may be the owner of a very expensive paperweight.
4. If you think your phone is stuck, boot looping, frozen, or whatever else, especially during a system, radio or ROM flash - DO NOT REMOVE YOUR BATTERY. Step away from the phone, and give it time. Give it at least half an hour, then reassess. (Thanks to sryan2k1)
5. If you encounter a pitfall, you should search the thread before you post your request for help so that you can see if others have had similar difficulties, as well as how they resolved them if they did in fact fix the issue.
6. If you found a solution to your problem you've asked for help on - please, post that you resolved it, and HOW you resolved it, especially if none of the advice offered by others helped.
7. The developer community is inherently an open and helpful one. Always feel free to post your questions, but please try to do your research first and always post your questions in the proper forum and thread. (Thanks to Linux4me28)
8. It's good practice to always make a backup! That may take the form of Nandroid (backing up your entire system, usually through Recovery), but if you start dabbling in ADB it also means rather than overwriting files you should simply append the old file's name until you're sure you've got it right (myfile.zip > myfile.zip.bak).
Rooting and Mod Terms, Basics, etc.
1. "Rooting" means, essentially, providing yourself with administrative rights to your phone.
2. A "ROM" is basically an entire system image - think of it like Windows XP versus Windows 7.
3. A ROM will *not* root your phone.
4. "Bricking" your phone means it's permanently borked. If you can turn your phone on and get to virtually any system screen, you're probably not bricked, and there's probably hope for you and your device!
5. You must be already rooted to install a ROM.
6. A ROM is installed through a custom recovery, such as ClockworkMod Recovery.
7. There are tools in existence, such as UnrEvoked3.x that will assist in easily rooting your phone.
8. The "Radio" is (in layman's terms) the part of the phone that interacts with a service provider's tower, and it too has firmware. Flashing a Radio image is a bit more of a risky proposition than just flashing a ROM, but it may be required in some cases. Again, ALWAYS READ THE DIRECTIONS.
9. ROMs are device-specific and, oftentimes, Radio-specific as well. This means that you must pay attention to the requirements for the ROM you want to install.
10. Remember: Rooting doesn't mean that you'll have any more success in "pirating" software. It just means you'll be able to control more of your phone's functions. I think you'll find that the developer community is even more protective of IP rights than the average user-base. A lot of developers work off of donations, but that doesn't mean that credit for their original works shouldn't be given.
Miscellaneous
1. Google is your friend, and so is the "Search Thread" tool. Please do not post questions in a thread when you could easily, and more quickly, find the answer by doing a search. That's just lazy .
Links to Other Helpful Threads
HTC Droid Incredible Helpful/Popular Threads (Thanks to stroupified)
I welcome any additions, but let's keep this polite and courteous. I was new at this once, myself - three weeks ago I purchased my first Android device, the Dinc. And yes, I mean that to be a somewhat strange statement. Before I've done ANY modifications, I've read the instructions, read the entire thread, and followed all directions to the letter. The only pitfall I've had was because I took a shortcut - once (but I learned my lesson!).
Changelog
08/04/10 - Cleaned up some formatting and spelling. Added contributions from others.
08/05/10 - Added links from other contributors, as well as additional information. Things were also getting unwieldy, so I broke things up a bit to make it more readable. If everyone prefers it all mashed together like it was, please let me know.

Excellent advice, sir.
I lurked here for months before trying to root and install ROMS. While I'm not a pro at it yet and have much to learn, I have more confidence in what I'm doing.

I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.

^^^ This should be stickied...

I agree with op couldn't said it any better. Also agreed it should be sticky post.
Sent from my ADR6300

Excellent! Bravo!

TNS201 said:
I think the reason most people try rooting is because they think they will get "free" apps or something, like its something they can do to pirate software with their phone or something. I do not think they understand the process completely.
To simplify your post OP,
If you want to root and are inexperienced, read what you are doing first over and over or at least have insurance...Most problems people have is caused by their ignorance, not the fact a program did something wrong.
I was new to rooting with my Moto Droid. Before that I was loading hybrid OS's on my POS Storm. Due to having lots of computer experience, I picked up rooting and ADB quite easily. Most people that root though, I really think they are looking for the ability to pirate and not to install custom ROMs, themes, and/or run apps at root level.
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I have a character flaw of wanting to wring the very last drop of performance out of my electronic devices...plus I find it challenging.
I'm sure there's a bit of "I'm really not supposed to be doing this" involved as well.

magneticzero said:
There is no reason this belongs in the dev thread. reported.
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I am going to have to disagree with you. A general set of guidelines for people to follow are always a good idea in a development forum. Something like this is bound to catch at least a few wandering eyes of new-comers into the site. By reading this, they will likely lurk around, read, and search before asking questions, avoiding possible flaming in the process (and making mod's lives a bit easier in the process too )

Also, fairly important, if you are in the middle of a flash/recovery, and you think the phone has frozen, or bricked, or stopped. DO NOT PULL THE BATTERY OUT.
Wait at least a half hour before touching it. It is the same with any device, a computer BIOS, phones, embedded devices, it may not look like it is doing anything, but it likely still is. That is one of the few ways to really brick a device is yank the power in the middle of a OS/ROM/Baseband/Etc flash.
We do it all the time on our hardware at work, but we have JTAG ports where we can reprogram the internal/external flash with a external tools. We don't have that luxury on these phones. Patience is your friend.

well said sir. the incredible was my first android device and i waited a couple months before i rooted it and felt comfortable with adb and weighed the benefits of rooting vs not rooting (that took like 2 min lol) I love technology and belive in running it to it's full potential because we paid $xxx.xx for our divices we should want to get our money's worth.
i was gonna suggest some threads that helped me out but someone has alread complied them into it's own thread. maybe you could make a shortcut for those people who are new to the forum. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=739428

magneticzero said:
Good read, but it is just "General Information". How is it directly helping me development a ROM or OS update? Just wondering...
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It benefits you in that you hopefully might have fewer people cluttering your Dev threads. No offense, but you're assuming the average consumer is going to look in "General Information" for General Information. They don't. There should be some detterent in place. As these types of devices become more prevalent, you should understand that the average "Development" visitor and poster is no longer a Developer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

thank you.

great hopefully more people will read this

magneticzero said:
So what you are implying it isnt really a development section of the forum....maybe they need to lock it and just post releases to you in the general forum....no matter what people are still gonna post crap and clutter this place.
I vote lock this forum to developers only and make it read only for general public.
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magneticzero said:
i am entitled to my opinion. cheers!
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With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.

Quite honestly this is the most sensible piece of information on XDA. I implore you to talk to some of the other dev mods (particularly evo 4g) and offer to add this as a sticky. I've been here a short while myself, but have already seen things devolved to a level of non-civility that makes me not want to participate anymore myself.
Seriously, awesome post.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

egzthunder1 said:
With all due respect, you have been around for less than a month. XDA has historically been a place where people contribute, come to learn from each other, and get help if needed be. What you are suggesting here goes completely against the whole ethos of XDA as a community. Non-devs come here to learn from the devs. Unfortunately, many people from the newer forums have very little tolerance for others who may not be at their level, and this really gets in my nerves as well as the rest of the mods. While I agree that people should search and read prior to posting questions, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that as of recently, people cannot even post a single question without being flamed to smithereens. The OP simply posted a very useful and to the point guide with suggestions (and yes, it is basic but not everyone can understand how to make a new kernel).
At this point, I would like to ask you to stop posting these kinds of comments in this thread. You are trying to start a very much unneeded argument in a thread whose sole purpose of existence is to prevent the sole thing that you are complaining about in the first place. This thread will stay in place and that's the end of it. I have talked this over with overground and Mikey (both in charge of this section) and they have agreed with my decision.
While you are entitled to give your two cents, you are not allowed to troll and or flame, and starting unnecessary arguments for no reason is considered flaming.
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We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.

douger1957 said:
We all need to start somewhere. Few people come here at the level of a Mr Koush.
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You know what's great though? Even he offered to meet me in IRC to help with an issue one time. That's what's great about this community.

I am a lurker and while I was good at messing with custom ROMS in Windows, I have been crawling up a steep learning curve with Android. But then I am a 50 year old lady lawyer so of course it's steep...
I rarely post anything. I do NOT ask questions because I do not want yelled at. BUT!
I have learned a great deal from other peoples' questions and the answers provided by the technically adept. Please don't close this forum to civilians. The information imparted in the give and take between n00bs and pros is invaluable as a teaching method, really it is.
The one observation I would make, though, is that 500 page forums are not really useful. Maybe shut them down more quickly as issues which emerge are addressed. For instance, once a newer ROM has been released, or patched, or an issue resolved, close that forum and start a new one with the resolved issue as the subject of the new thread and a link to it as the last post in the referring thread.
Thank to all of you for making owning a droid a blast!

Read and re-read....
I bricked a phone cause i read something wrong, once i read it again i got it, plus i had a few older phones that i toyed with to see if i understood everything.....nice having a few older devices around to test if your a noob. Like myself....

I totally agree with all that has been said here. The DInc took a long time to get root, but once it did, I was ready to give it a shot..as I had already been flashing, and cooking roms for my WM 6800..and also loaded a few hybrid OS's on my Storm.. so this was naturally the next chapter in my development as a developer...which is the endgame.. Bravo to all who help to keep rooting/modding fun, and edifying! Next I'm going to see if I can cook up my own Froyo ROM..

[Q] Ultimate Noob Rooting Thread

So I am considering rooting my phone, and I have been poking around and noticed all of the "essential" rooting threads are ages old, I have had my evo 4g for a week, and coming from a noob considering rooting I have a few questions (secondly im sure most of my questions just involve digging, but I am the kind of learner who needs to see everything in one or two places, not 20 or 30 different ones) so here goes my questions...
1. Why should I root, what are the advantages
2. What is the difference between deoxed and odexed
3. what is the step by step guide to rooting (im running snow leopard, but can get access to windows, would prefer to do it in snow leopard)
4. What are roms, kernals...other lingo and definations I need to or should know before rooting
5. what does rooting disable
and 6. Whats the coolest thing i can do once I am rooted
A special thanks to any one willing to take there time and explain these items to me rather then link me to another thread.

you seem like you haven't done any research what so ever.

What OS did you come from?
Yeah, it's kind of important to be willing to read a LOT. Or you probably shouldn't even bother. If you don't wanna read and really examine, then I would just stay stock. Evo is a fine phone stock.
'What's the 'coolest'thing you can do?'
(Aside from reading), I would say, that would be up to you what's coolest.
ROM is read only memory. Kernel, as I understand it, is the resource your ROM relies on to run, and greatly impacts battery life, and various functionalities. And allows for overclocking/undervolting, etc.
Root would disable/disallow you from accepting OTAs directly from Sprint

Kornsaq said:
you seem like you haven't done any research what so ever.
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I have done some reading on it, just as i said everything is spread out, and I have a very difficult time combining stuff from different areas, I am currently using osx, and all of the noob rooting instructions im able to find need files to be modified in windows/linux (osx is unix based)

Read the sticky thread at the top of this Q&A forum. The thread is called "Common misconceptions and useful information." ricsim included some really good pointers at the top of the thread and I have my own contributions at the bottom of the thread. I know you'll probably be a little annoyed by the fact that you have to find your own answers but it's critical that you learn what you're doing to your phone and why. Unless you do you'll turn into the next user who gets flamed for posting something similar to "OMG WHRE r Da GOOGLKE appzzzz" or anything resembling that.
What I'm trying to say is the rest of us learned by researching and we have faith that you can too.
Good luck.

beatblaster said:
Read the sticky thread at the top of this Q&A forum. The thread is called "Common misconceptions and useful information." ricsim included some really good pointers at the top of the thread and I have my own contributions at the bottom of the thread. I know you'll probably be a little annoyed by the fact that you have to find your own answers but it's critical that you learn what you're doing to your phone and why. Unless you do you'll turn into the next user who gets flamed for posting something similar to "OMG WHRE r Da GOOGLKE appzzzz" or anything resembling that.
What I'm trying to say is the rest of us learned by researching and we have faith that you can too.
Good luck.
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Since i posted this, I have been doing some clicking around, and im very very slowly understanding stuff, i will read through the mentioned thread, and the reason im asking these questions is an attempt to help me understand some more of this, i really dont want to risk bricking my phone (however low the risk is) with out knowing what im doing

HTC noob with a few questions:

For the past few years, I have been using Samsung phones, and have gotten accustomed to the tools need to root and rom with them. Friday, I am planning on using my JUMP upgrade to ditch my S4 for the M8, but I need to ask a few questions in preparation:
1) I see that S-OFF is far from a guarantee... what will I be unable to do without S-OFF? I don't care at all about AOSP-based roms, and I plan on sticking with Sense based, but it would be nice to have the option of putting a GPE-based rom on there, but this would not be a deal breaker.
2) What are some of the common pitfalls with this device, aka, how might I end up bricking it? I accidently wiped the IMEI on my GS3 when I first got it because I managed to miss the warnings about this in the forums, and don't want a repeat of that.

dont take this wrong, but these things have been asked and answered dozens, if not hundreds of times here already; you say are "accustomed" to the tools to root and rom; if thats the case, then surely you know how to search these threads; plus you've been a member here for a few years, so, you certainly know how to find things..
what REALLY caught my eye was the fact you posted a question about S-off, and there is a 35+ page thread about it, WITH THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTION, RIGHT IN THIS SECTION..

First of all, I don't think that my questions were at all unreasonable. Yes, there are plenty of threads on here about how to obtain S-OFF, but I am still having a great deal of difficulty determining what exactly I will be missing if I am unable to obtain it. My second question (which you in no way addressed) is one that can in no way shape or form be satisfactorily answered by searching a forum -- it is specifically in reference to the things that one might miss by searching alone.
Secondly, I want to add that comments like yours are like cancer to a web forum. If a question has been answered, you tell people to use the search function. Every time another thread pops up, you repeat the same mantra. Eventually, all searches lead to a graveyard of threads saying nothing more than "Use the search function". If it is so trivial, just provide a link, and the whole forum will be healthier for it.

as I said, both of these concerns have been addressed multiple times; what makes you think that YOU are entitled to a personal answer to your questions, when they have been answered endless times? No one here owes you a personal, customized answer to anything, especially someone who obviously doesn't contribute anything to the community?(one thanks/11 posts in 3 years)
secondly, it posts like YOURS that are a cancer to XDA; this forum used to be for developers, advanced android users, and folks who actually wanted help to LEARN about Android; instead it has become a place for N00bs, lechers, "Do it for me" types, who for some reason, think that just because they are too lazy to bother to try to figure out their own issues, or even SEARCH for it, are entitled to have their questions answered, and problems solved FOR THEM.
do you think I got over 3000 thanks because I am a cancer here, or because I go out of my way to help others?
learn how to be self sufficient, come here and HELP OTHERS out, and when you need a hand with something, folks will want to help you.
and, for the love of god, learn how to search for answers here and on other forums on the internet!

Again, as I said before, my second question is quite directly something which cannot be searched. It was directly asking for things that a user could overlook when searching for answers. I know it feels good to be smug about how much you know, but every time you reply to a post with "use the search function" you have made the search function a little bit less useful and have created another dead end for people looking for answers. I am not active on this particular forum, but I am very active elsewhere, and when I see posts that I feel have been answered I still try to point people in the right direction, as not doing so is not only petty and pointless, but is ultimately destructive to the whole community.

thisnamestoolong said:
Again, as I said before, my second question is quite directly something which cannot be searched. It was directly asking for things that a user could overlook when searching for answers. I know it feels good to be smug about how much you know, but every time you reply to a post with "use the search function" you have made the search function a little bit less useful and have created another dead end for people looking for answers. I am not active on this particular forum, but I am very active elsewhere, and when I see posts that I feel have been answered I still try to point people in the right direction, as not doing so is not only petty and pointless, but is ultimately destructive to the whole community.
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Dude, you need to search and read. I figured out a lot on my own coming from Samsung and nexus phones. Some of the stuff you're asking is a live and learn thing if you're too lazy to read. You're just wanting to leach and be hand held.
sent from my HTC One M8 using hofo mobile app