Develop Bugs

Bootloader: a noob question

Hi All,
apologies in advance if I'm asking something obvious...
I haven't purchased the Defy yet as I'm checking if this would be suitable for my wife and I'm struggling to understand the differences with the only other Android device I already own, a Galaxy S.
What I don't understand is this "bootloader locked" concept: it seems to be agreement on the fact that unlocking it is not proving to be an easy feat but exactly how does this "lock" affect the upgradeability of the phone?
I see that there are already several firmwares available, an advanced recovery mode, an application to flash the firmware and few custom ROMs so what's the bootloader for?
I have already flashed a dozen of different ROMs (both official and custom) on my Galaxy and the only thing I need to worry there, is the ROM itself and eventually the kernel...
Thanks for shedding some light on this subject: this phone looks great, far better than the "little" HTC & Samsung

Locked means that no matter what you put on the phone, certain pieces of the firmware have to be signed by Motorola or it will not boot. This makes it incredibly difficult to create fully functional firmwares. For example on Nexus One, new kernels can be compiled from open source, to help enable certain new features in the OS. On a Motorola locked bootloader, you can't load those kernels or it won't boot.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Thanks for the answer, cmstlist.
What about firmwares 2.21, 2.34 & 2.51 (just to mention the ones I see more in the threads here): are they not fully functional and/or bugged?
As this is going to be my wife's phone I don't plan to tinker much with it (unlike my Galaxy which I never let rest for more than few days ): to be honest Froyo (because of flash support) and the possibility to recover if things go wrong are the only things I'm after

The 2.21, 2.34 and 2.51 releases are fully functional and the latter two do lack much of the Blur features of the stock rom (which is appreciated by many users).
I run the 2.34 for a week now and didn't run into any problems, although there are some aspects of the phone I didn't use yet (e.g. bluetooth).
All of the above mentioned roms are 2.1 Eclair roms.
For the Fryo roms posted the picture is different. I didn't flash a 2.2 release yet, but from what you can read there are some issues. However, maybe someone running a Fryo Defy has more info on that.

Those ROM's are pretty much fully functional, but I guess you can hunt down a bug or two in just about any ROM, on any phone. The only one I've discovered so far (I'm on 2.34.1) is the inability to sync Facebook contacts with the phones contact book.
As you probably know, an official FroYo is on it's way, but there's no telling exactly when it'll be released, sometime during Q2.
I think it's a great phone, a huge bang for the bucks, as it's rugged, water resistant but still really light. And it does it's job, no lag, no freezes, good battery time. I'd recommend it to anyone.
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

The fact that one Froyo build exists, means that devs have something to work around to make other Froyo ROMs. On the other hand, if devs were trying to port Gingerbread? This would be a huge problem, because no matter how many pieces of delicious crispy Gingerbread you stick into this ROM, the kernel is still soft-serve Froyo, and the results will be kind of mushy.
Hmm, I'm hungry now.

Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)

chotto69 said:
Thanks for all the input.
If I understood correctly, in spite of Motorola's bootloader lock, there is development and customization going around this phone and this doesn't prevent new firmwares being flashed.
As the specs look really great and many people on this forum seem to be extremely happy with it I think I'll get one for the missus and we'll soon try how rugged it is with two little devils always trying to get at papa & mama's toys (I had to build a force field around my Galaxy!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is customization, but there just isn't the flexibility to craft entirely new firmwares. You can't simply compile a ROM from source and flash it to this phone... you have to take the compiled ROM, extract pieces of it, inject them into a stock ROM that the phone is signed to accept, pray that it all works, and then come up with dirty little hacks to get around the bits that fail.
But if you want your durable Android, the Defy is still the only game in town. So that's still the selling point. =)

and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..

irenic said:
and Motorola will never ever change their policy on locked bootloader.. am i right?
i pretty believe with all the hardwares they have, they can simply double the number of users if they have the same policy as other big name like HTC..
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Click to collapse
w w w facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278

Jelly Bean (JB) for the HOX - OTA/Information/Update/ETAs/etc

To somewhat control the the masses of Jelly bean threads that are currently arising, I made this thread to collect all talk about it.
Anything related to JB belongs in this thread. We don't want hundreds of threads with the same information, so please use this thread instead.
Yes I know I fooled you with the title, but I somehow need to get your attention
Any other JB threads will be closed to keep this froum clean.
Thanks

So here we have it, the galaxy nexus on JB. Incredibly smooth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3EXAFRxKQ , head over to the mini galaxy s 3 and the galaxy nexus comparison that begins at 3:50, you'll see how smooth the Nexus seems to be in comparison to the S3
I've got a question:
We all know the Sense itself is a bit of a power hog, not only the battery, but the interface as well. With all the changes implemented or the possibilities given to the developers with the introduction of Jelly Bean, is it in theory possible that we have an HTC Sense UI running as buttery smooth as the Galaxy Nexus's UI? Or are we all being hyped for nothing?
Even the browser experience on the Galaxy Nexus seems bad ass! If i recall correctly in the video i linked you to, zooms in and out of webpages without even the slightest bit of lag while the phone is loading. Not to mention scrolling on the page, simply incredible. This is something though that should be easily achievable on the One X. I'm just interested in the Sense UI atmm. It is beautiful but at the same time the stuttering gets on my nerves.

So, is the jelly bean RUU out yet for my phone? I really want it and hate that HTC take so long to get updates to us I mean this is the bestest phone in the whole world but HTC really suck by not making it as good as it could or should be in my dreams with the fast updates and the s-off with unlocked bootloader and exquisite camera that compresses too much but the phone is really awesome so can you tell me when the udpate will be on my phone????
just jokes guys/gals,
Thanks to the OP for starting this. As a member on several other forums I cannot believe the amount of crap that gets posted on the one subject but in 74,365 different threads
Even amongst XDA, (must admit I have limited myself to a few specific devices and not strayed too far), I am completely amazed at the people who refuse to search before posting or just blurt out any new thread when it comes to this particular phone. Just take a look at the s-off debacle FFS
Back on topic, I'm actually looking forward to the release of jelly bean for the HOX, fingers crossed we have been able to achieve s-off by then too

fridgie said:
So, is the jelly bean RUU out yet for my phone? I really want it and hate that HTC take so long to get updates to us I mean this is the bestest phone in the whole world but HTC really suck by not making it as good as it could or should be in my dreams with the fast updates and the s-off with unlocked bootloader and exquisite camera that compresses too much but the phone is really awesome so can you tell me when the udpate will be on my phone????
just jokes guys/gals,
Thanks to the OP for starting this. As a member on several other forums I cannot believe the amount of crap that gets posted on the one subject but in 74,365 different threads
Even amongst XDA, (must admit I have limited myself to a few specific devices and not strayed too far), I am completely amazed at the people who refuse to search before posting or just blurt out any new thread when it comes to this particular phone. Just take a look at the s-off debacle FFS
Back on topic, I'm actually looking forward to the release of jelly bean for the HOX, fingers crossed we have been able to achieve s-off by then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope it gives us the buttery smooth experience on Sense that we are all believing in and not just a flop.
Haha! If that's indeed the case, than iphone has every reason to continue suing. Cause if anything ever set the iphone and android apart then it was smoothness Vs more possibilities (decent smoothness)
but it will turn out to be smoothness vs smoothness and more possibilies = Fatality.

fridgie said:
So, is the jelly bean RUU out yet for my phone? I really want it and hate that HTC take so long to get updates to us I mean this is the bestest phone in the whole world but HTC really suck by not making it as good as it could or should be in my dreams with the fast updates and the s-off with unlocked bootloader and exquisite camera that compresses too much but the phone is really awesome so can you tell me when the udpate will be on my phone????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was allready thinking on how to drop myself out of the window... This becomes such a standard sadly :/
Maybe XDA should do like on other techi forums, you can't access certain area's without having answered a few tech-based question... This would reduce the amount of "noobs which will never even try to learn/understand something...
Back to topic.
The biggest problem is, that if you see the topic allready has 300+ pages you won't read them all in the hope to find an answer, which may be outdated, the only and best solution (and I'm hoping it will be the case here) would be to update the OP as often as possible with all available information and links

Jelly Bean PORTED to One X!!!!
Good news people....
Finally a good reason to root!!!! Waiting for the issues to be resolved...
tgascoigne said:
I've just noticed that this has made the XDA portal. It's been up on quite a few websites today that I've noticed, and I just wanted to say a big thank you to all the writers who have helped spread the word. If you are one of them, you're awesome!
This is a port of Jellybean, based off of the roms for the two nexus devices that were released yesterday. I'm working to add in all of the key features at the moment, and it's going pretty well, so you can probably expect to see some kind of Alpha release fairly soon.
It's based off the porting work done for CM9 for our phone in the topic here, with some help from randomblame in the #cyanogenmod-dev channel. (Thanks!)
Known issues
Wifi
Audio
Camera
Probably more
Ironically, the issue we've been trying to resolve with CM9 for this phone, the rotation bug, appears to be fixed here. Not sure whether to laugh or cry
Images
http://i.imgur.com/CgWMF.png
http://i.imgur.com/DLd2U.png
http://i.imgur.com/eQRbc.png
http://i.imgur.com/htOEO.png
http://i.imgur.com/ewQrl.png
http://i.imgur.com/y4R30.png
Video (Thanks to Vere850211)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whavUiVkYq8
Update
I've started to port the Galaxy Nexus image instead. The new version is a lot more stable, and I guess I've had a bit of a change of heart with regards to updating. This version is more complete and comes with all of the updated gapps, which means we get all of the awesome stuff that was shown at IO.
DOWNLOAD
Remember to flash the boot.img in the zip.
Notes
When you're going through the setup, the waiting page (After you select language) takes a while, sometimes it fails and resets to the start of setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I had this thought a while back.....
Sense is obviously HTC's standard in-house UI, but they also know that a lot of users would love to be able run the stock android UI.
Given the delay it take to integrate Sense with stock android. Wouldn't it be good of them to release a stock android version for those that would like to use it, whilst they are ironing out the integration issues.
That way if you want to use Jelly Bean sooner you can, or you can wait for the Sense overlay release.

Just Me said:
I had this thought a while back.....
Sense is obviously HTC's standard in-house UI, but they also know that a lot of users would love to be able run the stock android UI.
Given the delay it take to integrate Sense with stock android. Wouldn't it be good of them to release a stock android version for those that would like to use it, whilst they are ironing out the integration issues.
That way if you want to use Jelly Bean sooner you can, or you can wait for the Sense overlay release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will never do this. Skinning android with Sense/TW/etc is their form of branding. They do have other options though: http://www.davejunia.com/2012/06/what-android-manufacturers-need-to-do/

Just Me said:
I had this thought a while back.....
Sense is obviously HTC's standard in-house UI, but they also know that a lot of users would love to be able run the stock android UI.
Given the delay it take to integrate Sense with stock android. Wouldn't it be good of them to release a stock android version for those that would like to use it, whilst they are ironing out the integration issues.
That way if you want to use Jelly Bean sooner you can, or you can wait for the Sense overlay release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually a pretty good idea.... But then they get another excuse to delay the Sense release, which most of us don't care, but that will have all the kernel upgrades and what not, also they would never want to undermine the importance that they are putting on Sense as a marketing item... So let them do their bit of delayed development.... We can in the mean time, head to some ROM that already has the new 4.1 features like the one that I have posted above... If HTC releases something like this then people will start appreciating them rather than *****ing about performance issues as the stock ICS will be by default way smoother than SENSE...

aLcHy09 said:
Good news people....
Finally a good reason to root!!!! Waiting for the issues to be resolved...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think we're all pretty capable of reading the Dev forum to see that thread already...

EddyOS said:
Think we're all pretty capable of reading the Dev forum to see that thread already...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL.... True... Was just an update to people who are new to the forums and on this thread.... Way better than creating a new post and then writing the whole thing like I created the whole thing!!! Saw some people do this earlier.... This is info sharing.... No share button like FB,...

aLcHy09 said:
That's actually a pretty good idea.... But then they get another excuse to delay the Sense release, which most of us don't care, but that will have all the kernel upgrades and what not, also they would never want to undermine the importance that they are putting on Sense as a marketing item... So let them do their bit of delayed development.... We can in the mean time, head to some ROM that already has the new 4.1 features like the one that I have posted above... If HTC releases something like this then people will start appreciating them rather than *****ing about performance issues as the stock ICS will be by default way smoother than SENSE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other benefit is the increase in user base.
IMO HTC phones, as far as build quality, are the best.
Android is often synonymous with the word choice. If HTC gave users the "choice" of being able to run the latest Android UI not long after the new Android UI is introduced, or to run Sense if that's what they prefer, surely they would increase Market Share/User Base.

New update coming soon to HOX? Including 3.1 kernel? New Android Jelly Bean? Dont you guys think that this sounds to good to be real (to be from HTC) :cyclops:

That's it. I've had it.
First HTC don't give me ICS with One X, their flagship device. And now, the delicious Jelly Bean comes out and I can't even use this. Wow, thanks HTC but I don't want to be stuck having Gingerbread all my life.
Going to sell off my One X and buy this Galaxy Nexus device. Seems to be the best phone on the market today, hands down.
/s

in_deed said:
That's it. I've had it.
First HTC don't give me ICS with One X, their flagship device. And now, the delicious Jelly Bean comes out and I can't even use this. Wow, thanks HTC but I don't want to be stuck having Gingerbread all my life.
Going to sell off my One X and buy this Galaxy Nexus device. Seems to be the best phone on the market today, hands down.
/s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
REALLY?? your One X doesnt come with ICS out of the box?

in_deed said:
That's it. I've had it.
First HTC don't give me ICS with One X, their flagship device. And now, the delicious Jelly Bean comes out and I can't even use this. Wow, thanks HTC but I don't want to be stuck having Gingerbread all my life.
Going to sell off my One X and buy this Galaxy Nexus device. Seems to be the best phone on the market today, hands down.
/s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you dont have ICS ?

in_deed said:
That's it. I've had it.
First HTC don't give me ICS with One X, their flagship device. And now, the delicious Jelly Bean comes out and I can't even use this. Wow, thanks HTC but I don't want to be stuck having Gingerbread all my life.
Going to sell off my One X and buy this Galaxy Nexus device. Seems to be the best phone on the market today, hands down.
/s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe he expected an actual Ice Cream Sandwich to come with his phone....

in_deed said:
That's it. I've had it.
First HTC don't give me ICS with One X, their flagship device. And now, the delicious Jelly Bean comes out and I can't even use this. Wow, thanks HTC but I don't want to be stuck having Gingerbread all my life.
Going to sell off my One X and buy this Galaxy Nexus device. Seems to be the best phone on the market today, hands down.
/s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol you should be super happy you have a system higher than you think you had.

Lolz. Before someone thinks I am trolling..
I was just being sarcastic (/s).
Sorry about that. Thanked everyone who replied.
I LOVE MY ONE X
PS - An actual icecream sandwich wouldn't be too bad. Gotta solve the melting issues though. Jellybean is easier.

Can I ask a dim question? Will branded handsets get Jellybean the same time as non-branded ones, or will we have to wait longer as it goes through network testing?

C'ya CM9, I hardly knew ya'!

Quick background about my flashing habits before we begin. My first Android phone was the G2, and I really liked it but wanted something with more power. About a year later I "upgraded" to the Sensation and immediately I was taken aback by how awful Sense is/was. It became my mission to get back to the pure Android feel and so I found the (original) HNS ROMs. Those were great, and that phone lives on today as my wifes primary device. Now I have a Gnex, and my "problem" is that it comes out of the box the way it took me a year+ to get my Sensation so there isnt much I want to change. Roughly 2 weeks ago I decided to flash CM9 to see what all the hype is about, and I can honestly say I dont see what the big deal is. Sure, I can change the governor and modify the LED for specific notifications but as far as I can tell thats about all you can do. Clearly there are other 'under the hood' modifications but none of them are immediately evident to me at least, and so I am about to flash JB.
Am I missing something huge that CM9 does that JB doesnt not? Is my analysis totally off? Let me know if JB is a mistake and if I should have stuck with CM9 in the comments below!

webmaster said:
Quick background about my flashing habits before we begin. My first Android phone was the G2, and I really liked it but wanted something with more power. About a year later I "upgraded" to the Sensation and immediately I was taken aback by how awful Sense is/was. It became my mission to get back to the pure Android feel and so I found the (original) HNS ROMs. Those were great, and that phone lives on today as my wifes primary device. Now I have a Gnex, and my "problem" is that it comes out of the box the way it took me a year+ to get my Sensation so there isnt much I want to change. Roughly 2 weeks ago I decided to flash CM9 to see what all the hype is about, and I can honestly say I dont see what the big deal is. Sure, I can change the governor and modify the LED for specific notifications but as far as I can tell thats about all you can do. Clearly there are other 'under the hood' modifications but none of them are immediately evident to me at least, and so I am about to flash JB.
Am I missing something huge that CM9 does that JB doesnt not? Is my analysis totally off? Let me know if JB is a mistake and if I should have stuck with CM9 in the comments below!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't work for you, then ok. Nobody is going to convince you to use a specific ROM. Its YOUR preference and YOUR phone, so do as you please or better yet, make your own ROM the way you want. If you read you would know people like CM9 for its stability.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Only change governor and led??? Are we talking about the same CM9?
CM9 have way more customization options than that.
Sent from the future.

unlvmike said:
It doesn't work for you, then ok. Nobody is going to convince you to use a specific ROM. Its YOUR preference and YOUR phone, so do as you please or better yet, make your own ROM the way you want. If you read you would know people like CM9 for its stability.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get me wrong, I am not knocking CM9 in any way. However, I can tell you I had zero issue with the stock ICS build my phone came either. I am hoping JB proves to be just as stable.

lol a troll thread it is. nobody are allowed to blame CM. best android community ever! and now AOKP is also emerging. how dare you insult the only dev community that give free support for your device. you dont like it go away and keep it yourself. no need to tell it here. use stock rom and go play outside.
EDIT : ok... but still, whats your point of this thread? you want to try JB then go ahead. and since your stock ICS is working well just stick with it and wait for JB OTA. CM are already working on JB, its gonna be CM10. you dont follow news regularly i suppose... CM9 was started from scratch with no features for your info. and its still in RC! what do you expect....

SocialReject said:
Only change governor and led??? Are we talking about the same CM9?
CM9 have way more customization options than that.
Sent from the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but how many of them are actually useful and not just "cool"? After reviewing every single feature of the ROM I couldnt find anything else I thought was worth while. If you have specific examples please let me know, as I spent hours making the decision to ditch CM9 and I hope I made the right choice.

webmaster said:
Agreed, but how many of them are actually useful and not just "cool"? After reviewing every single feature of the ROM I couldnt find anything else I thought was worth while. If you have specific examples please let me know, as I spent hours making the decision to ditch CM9 and I hope I made the right choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock ICS > CM9?
You're delusional.
Jelly Bean would've been a better argument because of project butter.
Sent from the future.

SocialReject said:
Stock ICS > CM9?
You're delusional.
Jelly Bean would've been a better argument because of project butter.
Sent from the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, I am not running JB and I am making the comparison between it and CM9. I personally found nothing unstable in stock ICS however.

lol mate you can always try any roms easily. this is nexus device. you dont have to think long to ditch a rom... and we have nandroid too..

LuffyPSP said:
lol a troll thread it is. nobody are allowed to blame CM. best android community ever! and now AOKP is also emerging. how dare you insult the only dev community that give free support for your device. you dont like it go away and keep it yourself. no need to tell it here. use stock rom and go play outside.
EDIT : ok... but still, whats your point of this thread? you want to try JB then go ahead. and since your stock ICS is working well just stick with it and wait for JB OTA. CM are already working on JB, its gonna be CM10. you dont follow news regularly i suppose... CM9 was started from scratch with no features for your info. and its still in RC! what do you expect....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is "insulting" CM team?? I have used their products for years and I think they do a great job. The purpose of this thread (if you bothered to read it) was to determine if I will be missing any functionality of CM9 by moving to JB. Assuming you are not currently using JB, then I respectfully ask you to move along and comment elsewhere. This thread is for people who have used both ROMs, and can comment about the differences. Please troll elsewhere LuffyPSP.

Not yet having a Nexus, I can see how CM9 wouldn't be such a big deal since you're coming from AOSP already. But for those of us running manufacturer-skinned-and-bloated devices, CM9 is really amazing. Lets us basically run Nexus software on better hardware.

leppo said:
Not yet having a Nexus, I can see how CM9 wouldn't be such a big deal since you're coming from AOSP already. But for those of us running manufacturer-skinned-and-bloated devices, CM9 is really amazing. Lets us basically run Nexus software on better hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You nailed it right there, and that was the premise of my first post. Coming from a Sense "enhanced" device the AOSP experience was priceless and amazing. However once you are already running a pure Google experience (stock ICS ona Gnex) there is much less to improve upon. Hence my movement from CM9 to JB, and hence the thread you are now reading. Some people here need to relax and have a civil discussion (not you, some of the others)!

Was this thread really needed? Cm9 is a great rom remember what your parents should of told you if you have nothing good to say then do not say anything at all. So shhhh

Travisdroidx2 said:
Was this thread really needed? Cm9 is a great rom remember what your parents should of told you if you have nothing good to say then do not say anything at all. So shhhh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I guess we are back in kindergarten or something? I never once said a single negative thing about CM9. This thread is to discuss what features CM9 lacks that JB has, or the other way around. Do people even bother to read the thread before they chime in?

everybody is entitled to their opinion. And a ROM preference comes down to just that.
(without comparing features and what-not)
CM is living history in the world of Android development, specifically custom ROMs. I ran CM back on my original Droid when Koush first ported it (having to come up with ClockworkMod Recovery just to be able to do so, so that's one big thing that came about as an indirect result of CM). But Cyanogen was the first one to build a ROM from source, something that was a LOT harder back when he started. Many of Android's features were found in his ROMs first. While you may prefer this ROM or that, you should know that the CM team's impact on the android development community is only surpassed by Google itself (and it's by a narrow margin IMO). The CyanogenMod team is absolutely legendary and deserves more respect than that
as far as comparing CM9 to JB, it's apples to oranges. You won't see a CM JB ROM until source is released, that's how they work. And even still, it'll be a while before they get their ROM compiled, stable, and feature-packed

Came across this thread by accident... I think the users here was misled by the thread title... Anyway, i get what youre saying though about running aosp stock and cm9... You feel like youre not missing anything when running stock... Im not sure about stock ics but i think CM9 have alot of under the hood tweaks compare to stock... They may not be noticable to see but they are there hidden in codes ... May i say enhance in coding... Maybe wait for CM10, the wait will be worth it
Edit: apologize in advance if i misunderstood you
Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk

Different folks different strokes. Glad you tried both and chose the one that works for you. Nothing wrong with stock.

martonikaj said:
Different folks different strokes. Glad you tried both and chose the one that works for you. Nothing wrong with stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The post that nailed it all.
I enjoy stock. Nothing wrong there. I enjoy CM9. Nothing wrong there. I don't enjoy AOKP. Nothing wrong there.

52brandon said:
You won't see a CM JB ROM until source is released, that's how they work. And even still, it'll be a while before they get their ROM compiled, stable, and feature-packed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember when you would see CM before you would see the official ROM from Google... that was back during the G1 days... ah good times... Back then, he would release a basic rooted ROM then work out the extra features and bugs as he went along... but of course back then there was only one Android device, (and later only two or three) so it was easier.
The proliferation of different Android devices has really slowed down the CM development cycle. We are just now seeing a RC for CM9 and JB is already out in the wild.
CM has really influenced Android development as a whole... many features that come stock in Android today were first done by CM and then adopted into AOSP. I remember when Google Devs were asked at a press conference about specific features for a specific device... and they said "We won't do them, ask Cyanogen." Those guys have a lot of respect for Cyanogen, even way back when he worked on his own, and now he heads a huge team of Devs that rivals Google's in house team. (if not even larger)
There are a lot of little features that CM does that AOSP still doesn't and even others do not. Adjusting auto brightness settings are one I really like (especially on AMOLED screens) and also the color balance controls that help correct colors on AMOLED. There are other little tweaks and settings that you can do... and lots of code tweaks. Google must try to balance many aspects (performance/battery/multiple devices/differing hardware) with their code, but CM can focus on certain performance goals (in regards to all the mentioned aspects) and each version can be tweaked for its target device more than AOSP.
Basically CM is making AOSP the best it can be on the supported devices.

Marine6680 said:
I remember when you would see CM before you would see the official ROM from Google... that was back during the G1 days... ah good times... Back then, he would release a basic rooted ROM then work out the extra features and bugs as he went along... but of course back then there was only one Android device, (and later only two or three) so it was easier.
The proliferation of different Android devices has really slowed down the CM development cycle. We are just now seeing a RC for CM9 and JB is already out in the wild.
CM has really influenced Android development as a whole... many features that come stock in Android today were first done by CM and then adopted into AOSP. I remember when Google Devs were asked at a press conference about specific features for a specific device... and they said "We won't do them, ask Cyanogen." Those guys have a lot of respect for Cyanogen, even way back when he worked on his own, and now he heads a huge team of Devs that rivals Google's in house team. (if not even larger)
There are a lot of little features that CM does that AOSP still doesn't and even others do not. Adjusting auto brightness settings are one I really like (especially on AMOLED screens) and also the color balance controls that help correct colors on AMOLED. There are other little tweaks and settings that you can do... and lots of code tweaks. Google must try to balance many aspects (performance/battery/multiple devices/differing hardware) with their code, but CM can focus on certain performance goals (in regards to all the mentioned aspects) and each version can be tweaked for its target device more than AOSP.
Basically CM is making AOSP the best it can be on the supported devices.
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exactly. Hell, I think CM is the sole reason I even joined this forum when theming my D1 after Koush ported CM on another forum (I think alldroid or something like that initially). I remember the first experiments with JIT, and wow it was a ***** to get onto the D1 lol. I can't wait to see them play with JB when source drops. Cyanogen is your favorite developer's favorite developer

[Q] NON-carrier Jelly-Bean update possible?

Hello all!
So, hopefully a simple answer to a (seemingly) simple question that I have not yet been able to find an answer for.
I am a Telus Mobile customer here in Canada. Some time ago, my HTC Amaze was stolen at a music festival, and upon my return home, I bought a NIB Galaxy S III (SGH-1747M) from a 3rd party retailer. Cash, no contract renewal, etc. Since I bought it 3rd party and NOT through a carrier dealer, my phone came (thankfully) without ANY of Telus's bloated carrier branding. Because it takes Telus so long to get, tweak, brand and release any software updates, it's often several months AFTER a release has come out before my carrier makes it available.
So, here I am, with my shiny, awesome Galaxy S III, and everywhere I look, there's a story about Jelly Bean, and how awesome it is. Naturally, I'd like it for my phone. But here's my question: (Two, actually) 1, if do an "over the air" update through my carrier by checking for online updates, will it update my phone with "branded" carrier software? And 2, Is it possible to just download and install a Jelly-Bean update to my phone directly from Samsung? I'm REALLY enjoying not having a bunch of crappy carrier infested bloatware on my phone, and would rather go with a clean ICS update than a bloated JB update.
Thanks for ANY help!

Doubt it. Whatever you'll get from Samsung will be for the international, which will brick your phone. You'll have to get it from your carrier which will megabloat your phone. You may then proceed to debloat your phone, once you have obtained root. Rather than that, why don't you get one of the awesome jelly bean ROMs in the development section? Simplifies things a bit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium

I agree with the above poster. Rooting and then flashing a custom ROM is undoubtedly the best way to experience unadulterated JB in my opinion.
Galaxy S3 AOKP 4.1.2 JB 11/18/12 Build
Task650 Underwear kernel. (Conservative/Noop)

Or when official JB is released, typically you'll see a debloated version within 12 - 24 hours here on XDA. Root IS the way to go. So many options.

CamFlawless said:
I agree with the above poster. Rooting and then flashing a custom ROM is undoubtedly the best way to experience unadulterated JB in my opinion.
Galaxy S3 AOKP 4.1.2 JB 11/18/12 Build
Task650 Underwear kernel. (Conservative/Noop)
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Thanks for the replies!
Trouble is, I haven't got the FIRST clue of how or where to start this process, and knowing me, I'd bork something and brick my phone. I would need VERY, VERY detailed and specific instructions that could walk me through it. I have NEVER flashed a ROM, or a phone, or any of that. I haven't got a clue where to start, and with all the phones, variations, software, etc, etc, etc. Learning how, from scratch... Is a little daunting. But hey, if anyone here is kind enough to show me the way, I'd love to give it a shot.

Nunyabinniz said:
Thanks for the replies!
Trouble is, I haven't got the FIRST clue of how or where to start this process, and knowing me, I'd bork something and brick my phone. I would need VERY, VERY detailed and specific instructions that could walk me through it. I have NEVER flashed a ROM, or a phone, or any of that. I haven't got a clue where to start, and with all the phones, variations, software, etc, etc, etc. Learning how, from scratch... Is a little daunting. But hey, if anyone here is kind enough to show me the way, I'd love to give it a shot.
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Easiest place to start is http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1725839. It list all the different ways to root your phone and list all the custom roms out there in one forum. It has very clear walk throughs that are ment for noobs like me and elite alike. Good luck.

Nunyabinniz said:
Thanks for the replies!
Trouble is, I haven't got the FIRST clue of how or where to start this process, and knowing me, I'd bork something and brick my phone. I would need VERY, VERY detailed and specific instructions that could walk me through it. I have NEVER flashed a ROM, or a phone, or any of that. I haven't got a clue where to start, and with all the phones, variations, software, etc, etc, etc. Learning how, from scratch... Is a little daunting. But hey, if anyone here is kind enough to show me the way, I'd love to give it a shot.
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Check out the stickies in the android development section. You should find all the info you need there. It's a little overwhelming at first but once you get the hang of it, it becomes simple
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

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I'm running the official tmo jellybean rom on my unlocked Rogers phone now on Virgin mobile with no problems at all! Its a fast rom
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda premium

How customizable is this phone?

Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
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Assuming you have the Verizon model....Once you use Sunshine to S-Off this phone the world is your oyster. Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
The combination of the above and that HTC makes what I think are the most gorgeous looking and well built phones...it's been a win win for me since my Thunderbolt lol

gibawatts said:
Hello guys!
I had experiences with several brands. I gave up Samsung due to the Knox Counter and Sony due to the DRM keys. The best experience so far I had with my late Nexus 5! How easy is to customize the HTC 10? I never had HTC's before. Regarding ease of customization, bootloader unlock and warranty how does it go? I am about to return an Axon 7 and maybe exchange it with a 10.
Thanks in advance!
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Click to collapse
I've had a huge amount of devices, ( look at my sig and you'll see) and I've always come back to HTC, reason being is that they offer something a little different, but what's more they always have the most talented developers and the oldest serving, on XDA, Villain rom, etc, they always come up with the goods.
Not to mention that the root, unlocking of the bootloader and s-off (if you s-off) is reversible. Samsung is not, as it has an efuse chip as does the nexus too AFAIK.
There literally isn't anything you can't change on this device and with pretty much any other htc device, if you've had a htc before and gone on to something else, Sony or Sammy are good examples, you'll always be looking back over the fence, and when a new HTC comes out you'll just hate your current device, eg: I got rid of a six month old nexus 6P for this 10
Just unlock the bootloader, s-off if you must or want to, I believe that you can flash firmwares easier with it switched off, it's £20 so not great but it always works, install a custom recovery and flash away.
In terms of roms, Venom probably offers the most comprehensive list of tweaks and mods but LeeDroid is equally as good and as customizable, perhaps not with the length of venom tweaks but still great. Other roms I can guess are similar and when CM is completely fixed, well start seeing CM, AOSP and similar roms heading for us too.
In short, the answer to your question is a huge yes, I don't think I'll ever get another Samsung or Sony again, nothing wrong with them, they're just not for me and I'll miss HTC if I do.

Stripped, themed, ghostpeppered, and running like a bat out of hell....
.

bakemcbride21 said:
Great/robust dev community and help/support/guides to assist you through anything you want to do with your phone.
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Click to collapse
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.

SlowRain said:
I hope I can piggy-back off of this thread just a bit.
When you refer to the developer community for HTC, are you referring particularly to here on XDA-Developers, or in general everywhere? I'm thinking of getting an HTC 10, but I'm wondering the best/simplest way to keep it going with Android updates well past HTC's stated support period. I haven't done anything with my HTC Incredible S, but I'm looking to be a bit more proactive with my next phone. What are some of the more stable ROMs that you--or anyone else, for that matter--would recommend to keep this phone continually updated for years to come? Longevity is important to me.
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Long time Samsung user here. I got my US unlocked HTC 10 a few months ago. Best phone I ever had. Would not even consider an S7 in comparison.
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid. I've tried both and prefer Viper. I think that would be your long-term solution. Get an unlocked 10 if you can afford to for maximum flexibility and choice of service providers. Unlock the bootloader, S-Off, and flash Viper. You can't go wrong in my opinion.
BTW, this is just a general discussion thread. Each Rom, Kernel, recovery, etc etc have their own dedicated threads where you'll find in-depth info.

Aurelius99 said:
The two primary Sense-based Roms for the 10 are Viper and LeeDroid.
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Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?

Thanks guys, still considering the 10. Now I am between the 10, 6P and Pixel XL. The painful fact is that I am currently with no phone. When I went to return the Axon, there were no 10s in stock at the store. The wait for the Pixel is just killing me! And to worsen things a bit, I just ran into a 128 GB Nexus 6P. I am a real sucker for OLED screens you, know? That is why I still didn't buy the 10.

SlowRain said:
Are there any inherent advantages of a Sense-based ROM in terms of stability or ease of installation? Sorry for such a pedestrian question, but is there anything as simple as good ol' Nexus-style vanilla Android, or is that something that's even too easy to be asking about?
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Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.

Aurelius99 said:
Gawd, I could never go back to stock. Most people want a custom Rom firstly to get rid of all the bloatware installed by their service providers. Apps you'll never use, sitting there taking up space and even running in the background. Then there is the customizing you can do to set up your phone just how you want it. However, HTC has promised us that they will be providing us with a Rom upgrade to Android 7 in a couple of months and that Rom may be nice as-is. Bottom line - if you want maximum control over your 10, go custom. If stock meets your needs stay with that.
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I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)

SlowRain said:
I'm sorry, I may not have been clear. I was asking about a Sense-based ROM vs. stock Android (not stock Sense). I'd like it as simple, stripped down, and Nexus-like as possible, but I don't know how much tinkering each modder does with their various ROMs. I also want a ROM from a modder who will support it down the road for several Android versions, but I seem to have an answer to that question already. What I don't understand yet is the likelihood of stock/vanilla Android running smoothly on the HTC 10. Is that what's being called AOSP, or is that something else entirely?
(For what it's worth, I'd be getting the international version, called the M10h, I believe.)
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AOSP is the Android Open Source Project. Yes, this is sometimes referred to as the "stock" Rom. Google provides the code base for the stock Rom. Various developers use this code base and then add their own code enhancements to produce an extended version of the stock Rom. Most custom Roms are Cyanogenmod-based. This is the company that has put their particular twist on the stock Rom. A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
Some people actually do prefer the more standard stock Rom for various reasons. It is simpler and typically more robust for dealing with the limited and specific tasks it was designed for. A good custom Rom can be just as robust as stock in every way, but also allows the user to do much more with the phone. It can be overclocked to run much faster, have better audio, a highly customizable user interface, and so on.
Viper, on the Sense-based side, and Resurrection Remix on the Cyanogenmod-based side are both better than the stock Rom in my view and people using those Roms get many more updates to their Roms via the developers than stock Rom users do. Some developers are still producing custom Roms for the Samsung SII -- a very old phone that Samsung dropped support for years ago.
Check this out for the HTC 10:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-10/development/rom-21-02-viper10-1-0-0-tweaks-hub-t3379151

Aurelius99 said:
A Sense-based Rom is yet another enhanced version of the stock Rom. Both use the same AOSP code base and customize it in various ways and for various phones.
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Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?

SlowRain said:
Can I assume a Sense-based ROM will have a better chance of everything working properly (ie. camera, NFC, audio, etc.) since it's starting off with something further down the fork in AOSP designed specifically for the HTC 10? Or am I misunderstanding how ROMs work?
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Haha, you're really doing your research.
Yes, a sense based ROM is less likely to have bugs, however bugs are usually listed in the OP of every rom thread. A matured AOSP ROM won't have anything broken, but things may not work as well or as intended by HTC.
I think sense based is the way to go with this device, lots of good features HTC has developed that work well with the phone like the camera application and blinkfeed. Not to mention the polished look of the phone in general and the underrated theme store, it just works well together. You'd lose all of that with AOSP, not so much key features not working.

BadUsername said:
Haha, you're really doing your research.
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Yes. It's my most annoying characteristic, according to my wife. Now I just have to find a developer who keeps things simple & stable, and who will support it until 2021.
Thanks for your replies. And I apologize to gibawatts for hijacking this thread a bit. I hope it was still useful for you, too.

Did you guys decide?
It's still $150 off, which assisted me in my decision to go from the Nexus 5 to the htc 10 (and a nice, even doubling for us OCD types).
My short answer: the htc 10 is ever-so-slightly less customisable than the Nexus 5; I've installed everything on it that I had on the Nexus (SuperSU, Xposed, Gravitybox, Xprivacy, AdAway, etc.). N-ify works on it.
My only "issue" so far is that GravityBox can't remove the Calculator and Extreme Power Saver quicktile htc put there..real fine points here. (I've only had the thing 2 days, so there may be more but no show-stoppers for a purist like me). Sense 8 is more like an alternative launcher than an overhaul like TouchWiz or old versions of Sense. Wife likes it (coming from her N5/NovaLauncher) and I'm giving it a whirl.
Manual firmware updates would be the only caveat AFAICT but that is still better than what I had with N5: OTAs broke and I just never installed them due to lack of interest...not a habit I want to carry with me, however. My point being that the Nexus 5 was actually more of a hassle to me to update than what this seems like it would be (though I've not tested it yet but there's much discussion on the procedure here).
Wife is attached to OLED (SIII had a wonderful display) but she likes the htc 10 display and did not like the N5 display.

I love the feedback you guys got/gave here. This here is a model XDA thread.
I would just like to add that HTC's Sense ROM is quite bare-boned compared to other non-Nexus OEMs. Compared to the Axon, it'll look almost like a Nexus device.
Everyone else pretty much covered the other important things. I'd like to point out that CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs for the HTC 10 are still a bit down the road and they still need quite a bit of work, so when you get it, expect to either stay with Sense, or Sense-based custom ROMs for at least the next few months. No complaints on that from my side. Even if you do eventually flash CM/AOSP/Vanilla ROMs, I'll wager that you'll end up downloading some of HTC's apps, like Camera, Gallery, and Music. They blow away vanilla Android apps and 3rd party alternatives.

samisax said:
Compared to the Axon,...
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ZTE being mod-hostile turned me off to them; they have to establish a solid history of unlock/mod-friendliness for me to even look at them. (No, a press release stating that they would, in the future, answer questions from CyanogenMod folks to develop their ROM doesn't win me over in any way whatsoever.)
I surmised that the OnePlus 3 was too customised to be considered a Nexus spiritual successor (it was the phone I wanted to like/buy). Really, they only need to make good hardware and just use already-made AOSP and spend dev time getting drivers and such primo to have a winner (and with lower overhead) rather than trying to reinvent the wheel that nobody will want. It's like they're trying to sorta be Nexus and sorta be Sense/TouchWiz/et al but is there really a market for that? Is there really no market for Nexus? (I dunno...the Pixel thing has me befuddled and the no-more-Nexus thing has me ferhoodled.)
So, yeah, I'm liking the htc 10, which, being both funny and sad, I didn't even look at. My wife mentioned it and the $150 off, so we took a look and got'em. (I was still soured by my Evo 3D experience that led me to use then-Best Buy's 30-day return policy)
One more tid-bit I neglected to mention earlier: I'm glad I got the unlocked/dev version...no issue getting official RUUs all official-like, officially. I don't ever want to deal with "carrier" stuff.
P.S. Good to know about the camera, gallery, and music apps. Those are important to my wife (I'm happy with those being "functional" but also happy to just have the same software between us..easier to maintain and to answer her questions).