I have been having real weird issues with my text messages, and I've been told that people called me, but my phone doesnt say so. Yesterday I got on chat with sprint, the said that they troubleshooted the phone and to leave the battery our for 1/2 hour and reboot, all should be good. I did it(after ##72786# to reset the phone info), and it worked for a while. I checked my voicemail and had 5 messages from missed calls yesterday. Today Sprint was supposed to call me back to see if the troubleshooting thing worked, I checked my voicemail, and sure enough, I missed their call. So today they told me that they were updating towers...blah, blah..lte....., blah, blah.....fixed by the 11th. I got to researching and found this: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/92214?tstart=0
I also got a $10 credit
Just putting it out there. If anyone else is having issues, please post.
Edit: here is another one http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/441250#441250
I live in baltimore MD and between them updating the towers and that storm coming through last friday and damaging there towers service has been pretty bad as of late
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
I had a similar issue yesterday. I rebooted my phone because I though it was strange nobody texted me all day(someone usually texts me) then right after it boots the notification sound goes crazy haha missed 20ish texts D:
First time its happened to me, will see how today goes. Besides that signal is fantastic.
My signal is fine, the phone just doesnt receive anything, or will receive multiple copies of the same text. They said that towers are being updated in Boise, and they expect a fix by the 11th. Gave me a ticket number and everything. I might talk to tech support around lunch to see what their response is. Judging by what the Sprint community says, all of their LTE phones are having issues. Even the Gnex.
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like this lol that was just the first scroll i recieved more, look at the times weird.
Yep, I got the same messages all night long. Once or twice every hour. I had to turn notifications off.
newalker91 said:
Its all phones in general. Network vision has destroyed the network. On average every market currently has between 30 to 50 towers at 0% function. We are encountering this every day and we're getting our asses handed to us because we can't fix it from the store. Everyone swears its their phone despite all the info we show them.?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all stores or Sprint customer service telling the truth....they make it seem like the phone in my case when I know the deal....net to mention they don't want to credit me for rendering poor service so they deny it's service......sad
Its pretty rediculous, I call my phone from my desk (that the phone is sitting on) and it rings a few time and goes to voicmail, but the phone doesnt do anyting.
I'm down in the oc in California and signal is decent, 3g been slower lately due to updating the towers, so far no phone call issuers, had the text problem and failing to send texts or not receiving or receiving many times, for now insurgent u set google voice to notify you since it uses data to communicate so it's better at Texts and such, at least til sprint is done with the upgrades.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
newalker91 said:
Its all phones in general. Network vision has destroyed the network. On average every market currently has between 30 to 50 towers at 0% function. We are encountering this every day and we're getting our asses handed to us because we can't fix it from the store. Everyone swears its their phone despite all the info we show them.?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happens on my HTC EVO 3D and HTC EVO 4G, so it's not just a phone issue. And my fools at the local Sprint store in my area claim there's no issues. Of course, these are the same fools that think 3rd party launchers are rooting your phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk 2
Well, google voice solved the text issue. Im happy now.
The threads the OP referenced are pretty much what I was looking at.
I too am experiencing the worst luck when it comes to signal strength. My friend has the good old evo 4G. I put the two phones side by side. I can observe the signal fluctuate on my s3 as the evo has a perfect full bars.
The sprint forum seems to suggest that it might be a network issue. I don't buy it. I think it is a hardware issue unfortunately.
The phone is nice and fast. But this connectivity issue is a deal breaker for me.
CB
Related
Hmmmm, so some people have said they were able to get the PRI OTA in BestBuy stores which have "repeaters" (ie femtocells). I'm just wondering, has anyone with an AIRAVE attempted to update their PRI???
I have one but I havent used it in months and it takes like 2 hours to start up...maybe I'll try it tonight, now that PRI 1.71_003 is officially out:
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Mine wouldn't do hands free activation over the airave.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I have an airave and I was only able to update the pri at home. I tried about 30 times in other locations with no success, but my airave got it on the second try .
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Has anyone actually got 1.71_003 OTA?
REally?
fldash said:
Has anyone actually got 1.71_003 OTA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you see the picture??? Look at the first post....
fldash said:
Has anyone actually got 1.71_003 OTA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You kid right? Just say J/K...
GrooGrux said:
Did you see the picture??? Look at the first post....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
? How do I know that was gotten OTA and not a screenshot from a new phone?
fldash said:
? How do I know that was gotten OTA and not a screenshot from a new phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the post from mjkd00
P_Dub_S said:
Read the post from mjkd00
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know if he was talking about the 1.40 PRI or the 1.71...
Every post that mentions this mysterious PRI 1.71.003 "Update" has the same pic. Some say it was on a new phone, some say it updated OTA. It is kind of hard to believe that only a select few phones have gotten this upgrade, and ALL those phone owners took the exact same picture....
Had that version for weeks
is there any way to get this update other than the airave?
mjkd00 said:
I have an airave and I was only able to update the pri at home. I tried about 30 times in other locations with no success, but my airave got it on the second try .
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which airave do you have the samsung or airvana?
im just curious because i have an airvana
EVOme said:
Had that version for weeks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you prove this? pic or something? or is it hex-edited only?
Best Buy and airaves and downloading, Oh,My!
helfire1 said:
Mine wouldn't do hands free activation over the airave.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree here - I have tried activation several times, I have been unable to do it over the airave. When I was in range of the Airave, I always had to do it manually. Furthermore, the Blackberry can't be provisioned over the airave for internet access, downloading the service books or whatever fails. I had to drive some miles until I got a good signal from a sprint tower.
However, there are two different airaves. The old airave was called, an "Airave" and was manufactured by Samsung. The new Airave is called an "Airave Access Point" and is manufactured by Airvana.
The old airave only supported 1x data. The new airave supports EV-DO. If you made a call using a Samsung Airave, you would hear two beeps before you started to hear the ringback confirmation sound. The Airvana chirps three times, and the pitch is so high it is distorted, or that is my guess, so the three confirmation tones are three distorted chirps.
Since the new device supports EV-DO data, it might be able to support phone activation and downloading service books.
For either device, you can determine whether you are using an airave without placing a call so that you get the chirps. You can simply dial *99. With the Airvana AAP, the message will repeat several times, it may repeat forever. It has been a long time since I used this on a Samsung Airave, but I seem to recall that the Samsung only gave you the confirmation message once.
So if they are using Airaves in Best Buys, it is easy to tell.
Now, one final difference that I can see. Sprint Family Locator used to give you the location of the Samsung Airave, just like it gives you the location of a tower when it can't get a GPS fix from the phone. It tells you that you are within 1000 yards of a tower location. It would say that you were within 120 feet of the Airave, as I recall.
The Sprint Family Locator service can't find phones that use the AAP. This may be a bug, I am going to report it.
1.77_003 is actually the latest and running on my Evo.
I have tried to update via airvana and when I click update profile ot just stays on the updating screen forever and does not update so for me its not working.....
As for best buy they are not using airaves or airvana's the repeaters they use are the real deal actual cell repeaters same for sprint stores where signals are bad..it would be hard for them to sell you a phone if they cant get a good signal, kinda ****ty if you ask me cuz they are essentially showing you a good signal untill you drive away and then no more good signal
I'm sure sprint is just doing maintenance on the tower but this is the second time that I've lost data after midnight. I know it isn't the phone because I checked another sprint phone and its doing the same thing. Right now I'm on 4g. I should speed test it. Its either that or wifi. In the morning I'm sure it will be back up.
It actually happened to me earlier like a full blown los with the circle with the line through it but it came back like right after it happened which it usually doesn't
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I don't have the los symbol, I only have the bars and no 3g or 1x. 4g works sporatically.
Its been happening to me too, along with the occasional LOS
Same issue here. I first thought I messed up my modem by flashing ek02 from eg30, but I noticed with fb21 modem that it's more stable. However, my wi-fi is less stable. Weird stuff.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I've been getting 1x several times lately, which usually never happens.
tamothyy said:
I've been getting 1x several times lately, which usually never happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been seeing 1x show up sporadically over the past couple of weeks, too. Poos up for a minute or two, then goes back to 3g. This is in places where I've always had steady 3g coverage.
I'm in the Milwaukee area.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
I've been having a similar problem. Additionally, it's been taking longer for my phone to reconnect to 3g after losing WiFi or 4g connectivity.
It turns out that after 12 hours I still didn't have data. I called *2 and they said there wasn't an outtage. I am at work so I wouldn't get home to call on different phone to troubleshoot for another ten hours. I went back into recovery and did full wipe of everything and the full format zip. I then installed a rom full install and flashed the el29 modem then rebooted. It worked. I think when restoring a nandroid then flashing a modem it hosed the 3g. Its fixed now. Funny how when I tried to restore it said one was corrupted. Weird
Same to me me today. Had full signal but no data or txting ... Was like wtf
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I'm near Houston, the other day I was roaming inside a store where I get great service. Been 1xing a bit lately
But today for half the day and counting, my 3g is broke, but 1x works cause I can get text, call.
My 4g is the only data I have.
My 3g icon stays on even if I disable 3g data. Really weird
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.: sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II Epic 4G Touch :.
I been getting this too, I just thought that it was because I was in Vegas and I was super wasted and just seeing things lol
Had it happen a bit in VA. Not certain why but seemed to happen in the same place throughout a day or two. May be a coincidence but havent seen it since moving to the FB21 modem.
Edit: of course right after posting this it happened........
I am on 4g here at work and home. My second line with an HTC Touch Pro has been solidly on 1x for days now though. Not sure what the heck is up with that.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Best speeds I've gotten today. I'm 5 blocks from 4g coverage.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Ok, it's been about half and hour. Haven't moved and inch. It got worse. Running FB21 with FB21 modem.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
I work for a cell phone provider and we partner with sprint as a roaming partner.. We had tons of calls coming in on the day you made the post of data loss.. Tier 1 troubleshooting and a little bit of probing questions and finally a call to tech support we found most with he issue were roaming.. We checked our AAA tool and switch and verified with the customer that they were roaming on the sprint network.. After calling tech.. We were advised that sprint had a nationwide data outage.. People were having no data at all, intermittent, slow, timed out connections, and they ha no ETA.. It caused a bunch of havoc, i cant have my phone on at work but before and after it did work fo me.. Im in phx with no 4g here.. However im either at work or at home.. And when im home im on wifi.. So i rarely have time to test sprints network.. I also have the airave at home.. What i do know tho, is sprints network isnt the best, and they would never admit to a network fail like that.. Then again could have been there associate and didnt know what he was saying..
Edit: entire ride home, and on airave is 1x.. Ive had 3g icon come on constantly and stay on even with wifi on and 3g off completely.. Also had gps get stuck on.. Had to reflash the rom for that one
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
I haven't checked yet, but i think sprint is doing some network upgrades here.
I can't get and explanation as to why I live 5 blocks from 4g coverage yet require and air rave and have spotty coverage. Very disappointing that I cant my moneys worth for the $10/month premium data fee.
All that said, I will never find a better price for a 5 phone family plan, soon to be 6.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
I just got off the phone with sprint. they say there is a 4g outage in the east bay of california (i live in oakland and work in hayward) and my phone lost signal while i was on with them so they are escalating me to their network engineers to figure this out...
This is quite long but I wanted to detail the entire process of getting an Airave from Sprint for free. I didn't have to lie to Sprint to get one, but they made it quite difficult...
I've been a sprint customer for about a month now. I knew that upon signing a new contract I would have a 14 day evaluation period that I could drop if I wasn't satisfied. I've had a bad experience in the past with Verizon having horrible signal in my house, so I decided to thoroughly test my Sprint signal during the 14 days.
Fortunately, the Sprint signal checked out. I had around 3-4 bars out of 5 around my house. I know that doesn't say anything about the signal strength etc but I could make and receive calls and 3g speed was acceptable. Last Friday (21 days into my contract), however, a Sprint tower went down. I know this because I called Sprint when I began missing calls in my house and also was unable to call out until the phone switched to roaming. I asked the rep when the tower would be fixed and she said it was scheduled to be fixed by the end of the day on Saturday. Sprint down for a day? No problem. I can just switch to the Verizon PRL (which works perfectly for me, even though Verizon didn't) and switch back when they get it fixed.
I switch back to the 11115 PRL Saturday night and no dice. All of the same issues are there. Can't call, missed calls, etc. I call Sprint and ask what happened. I know that a scheduled fix time is a guess because things can come up. The new rep tells me that the new fix time is Monday afternoon. Ok, no problem again. I can just leave it on the 00002 PRL.
Monday afternoon comes and the same situation repeats itself. Problem not fixed. However, when I called in the rep said there were no ongoing issues in my area. I asked if the tower was fixed that they had been working on and she said she assumes so because there are no ongoing issues at the moment (honestly, Siri would probably be better than level 1 Sprint support that I've received sometimes... and thats saying something). So, knowing she can't do anything about it, I ask what I can do about the terrible signal. She walks be through the PRL and profile updates, battery pull, etc (I had already done all of this). Problem still there. She ups the ticket to the next level and then the signal drops because I'm on Sprint's PRL now.
Sprint didn't call back (I switched to 00002 immediately) and I didn't feel like dicking with level 1 that night so I called again on Tuesday. I had to retell the story yet again because the Sprint techs evidently don't read the previous tickets (maybe there aren't previous ticket notes? I have no idea, all I know is I continuously have to repeat the same things to Sprint reps). This rep tells me that she wants to issue an Airave to fix my issue but I need to go to a Sprint store to ensure that my phone is not the culprit.
I'm on FC05 at this time. FC05 has never had any signal issues for me at work or other places other than my house. Thankfully I have my wife's phone on stock rooted EL29. I tell the Sprint rep that I have two phones experiencing the same issue, so the likelyhood of both phones having the same issue due to hardware is extremely unlikely. She says she agrees and will immediately issue an Airave. This is where I believe she lied to me. She gives the the 1000 digit ticket number and tells me to go to the nearest store and they will give me an Airave.
I arrive at the store about 20 minutes after talking to the previous Sprint rep. I give the store the number and they look it up in Sprint's system. They say that they can see that I've talked to the reps in the past few days etc and the issues I've experienced. They tell me, however, that there hasn't been an Airave issued for me as well as the stores don't stock Airaves any more. Ok.
The rep at the store was really nice and tried to help, but couldn't do anything of substance evidently. He gave me the direct number to tech support (sounds like level 2? No idea.) I tell the rep that answers (no wait!) the entire story from the beginning and she immediately tells me that she will transfer me to the Airave department. The guy that answers the Airave department has no knowledge of my situation so I ask him to read the ticket to see what I've done to reach this point. He says OK, waits about 30 seconds, and asks questions that ell me he hasn't read anything. Whatever, I'll explain the situation again. He says he needs to transfer me to the tech support department. I tell him that I just came from there and I've tried all of the tech support steps as well as in store. He transfers me anyway. The next tech support rep apologized and issued me an Airave on the spot. The Airave has been added to my Sprint account online but I haven't received it. No charge for the Airave and no monthly fee.
Sorry that you had to go through all of that. When I was having service issues I just called and requested an airrave due to dropped calls in the house. I told them my service was fine outside.
I had an airrave in two days and no issues since.
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Always ask for Phoenix Airave Tech Support if you're having signal issues, Advanced Tech can't do crap.
Sup guys
I recieved a home signal box from three today,
I've got to say how impressed I am I get full 5 bar signal any where in my house or garden and so far I haven't had a single dropout woohoooo no more missed calls
if you want one for free phone them tell em you only get signal at the top of your house but when outside signal works fine and that you've been a loyal customer and put up with bad signal for years it worked for me otherwise they will charge £150 for the box
They gave me 2 options 1. Was to have a £5.50 knocked of my bill every month or 2. a home signal box for free
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canna666 said:
Sup guys
I recieved a home signal box from three today,
I've got to say how impressed I am I get full 5 bar signal any where in my house or garden and so far I haven't had a single dropout woohoooo no more missed calls
if you want one for free phone them tell em you only get signal at the top of your house but when outside signal works fine and that you've been a loyal customer and put up with bad signal for years it worked for me otherwise they will charge £150 for the box
They gave me 2 options 1. Was to have a £5.50 knocked of my bill every month or 2. a home signal box for free
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice one! I will have to try this, never knew three did such a thing.
:good:
chrisoverson said:
Nice one! I will have to try this, never knew three did such a thing.
:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome, after first call they will call back 3-4days later to check if your issue is fixed say no then they will give you options money off or signal box they will try to push the money off offer say no I want the box
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
I can see these femtocells becoming popular for mobile operators to give away for free. They can potentially use them in a similar way to the BT Openzone SSID enabled in BT's routers.
I wonder how much of your broadband data they use?
I haven't checked how much data it uses I have a 50mb internet connection soon it will be 120mb so I have no need to worry about data it requires 1mb connection if your on a data plan I'd be careful
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
It can be a bit of a battle to get one of these boxes.
Unfortunately I'm a sim only customer, out of contract and my wife is a sim only customer with about 5 months left but they wouldn't budge from a £50 charge. I've asked for the complaints team to call me but I doubt I'll get anywhere.
You can only get one for free if you are still on a 'handset' contract rather than sim only and you say the right thing.
I told the second line support network people (who call you back a few days after your complaint) that I've noticed poor signal in the house since the beginning of the year. I told them that my phone no longer roams onto a 2G signal in the house (they removed roaming in my area towards the end of last year) and that things got even worse in spring when the trees in my garden started to come out in leaf. I said that the only place I can get a signal next to an upstairs window which makes a mobile phone useless if it only works in one place in the house. I also told them that the phone also switches to 'Emergency calls only' whilst in the house.
You need to say that you are perfectly happy with the Three signal elsewhere, whilst out and about, and that you only have issues in your house.
If you are out of contract they will try and get you to take another deal and then they'll throw in the Signal box. I'm too tight to pay the £50 for me to use my internet connection for mobile traffic, so thought I'd cancel and come back. However,I didn't realise how easy it now is to get a PAC number which is now automated. As soon as I requested a PAC they called my to try and sign me up for another 24 months but the deals were the same as the three site. So now I'm in the process of porting my number elsewhere for a month before coming back as a full contract customer on a cash back deal. It's a bit of a pain but the other networks are also rubbish near me and as far as I know three are the only network to dish out these boxes for free.
trickydickie said:
It can be a bit of a battle to get one of these boxes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I just got mine yesterday after first calling them about getting one on the 12th of June - so nearly 2 months to the day.
Initially they claimed to be working on my local cell (coincidence, or stalling tactic - you decide) and that they would call me back in a month. Then they wanted another week. Then they were out of stock etc.
Anyway, once you have been deemed worthy to receive the equipment, it turns up the next day. Plugged mine in last night - the initial (automated) setup took a minute or two, but once the device had sorted itself out it works really well. I've gone from no signal at all in the house to a maxed out signal everywhere. Suddenly I can receive and make calls and I don't have to walk down the road to receive SMS.
Vodafone have them, O2 are about to have them and Orange use UMA which routes the calls and texts through your own wifi router. It has to be a compatible phone though.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I have been with T-Mobile in Bloomington, IL for over 7 years now. The only thing I have ever complained about is data speeds in my area. So, when I read the following press release from T-Mobile last year, I was super excited.
http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/articles/new-4g-markets-nov2011
In that release dated Nov 16th 2011, it says
"T-Mobile 4G markets where HPSA+ 42 service is launching today:
Bend, Medford and Corvallis, Ore.; Benton Harbor, Mich.; Bloomington, Champaign–Urbana and Springfield, Ill.; Columbus, Ga.; Hagerstown, Md.; Montgomery, Ala; Yuba City, Calif."
So, I have not seen a difference in speeds at all over the past year with the following phones, HTC Senseation, Galaxy Nexus GSM, HTC One S and the Galaxy S3.
I have never gotten anything above 3Mb anywhere in town. Now, when I call T-Mobile to inquire about my slow speeds, they tell me only 3G is offered in my area and that the speeds I am getting are consistent with there network. FYI my status tells me that my Mobile Network Type is HSPAP:15
Attached is a screenshot of my typical speeds. Am I getting ripped off on data speeds?
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Guess you better switch to Verizon.
Id love to see your speeds. Im on edge.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Could it be that half of Bloomington is covered but the other half isn't, and you're in the bad half?
I would call customer service and politely ask to speak to tech support. Let them know your issue and ask to speak to a supervisor. When the supervisor gets on the phone tell them you want this to keep getting escalated until you get an answer.
I had a similar problem and it took two weeks to finally get anywhere.
Jaxidian said:
Could it be that half of Bloomington is covered but the other half isn't, and you're in the bad half?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have though the same thing, but Bloomington is a pretty small city and I have driven all over town doing speed test in the past. Plus, when I have called them, I am told that there is no 4G anywhere close to me. Does that make sense if my network type is HSPAP:15?
Your speeds are up to par with what I get. Hell they're better. I would say everything is normal. T-Mobile has very weird and spotty service. I'm hoping the reframing of the towers will help.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Honestly you shouldnt be seeing much of a difference from people downloading at 10 Mbps... you're still downloading at 100 KB/s with 1 Mbps....
Chicago281 said:
I would call customer service and politely ask to speak to tech support. Let them know your issue and ask to speak to a supervisor. When the supervisor gets on the phone tell them you want this to keep getting escalated until you get an answer.
I had a similar problem and it took two weeks to finally get anywhere.
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Your problem was completely different. You had towers down in your area.
OP, you need to realize that every single phone you listed aside from the One S and S3 are NOT capable of HSPA+42. So that is your first problem. The second problem is that wherever you are in Bloomington, an HSPA+42 tower does not reach you. Coverage isn't always the best. I'm a five minute walk from Wrigley Field and a five minute drive to downtown Chicago and I only get 7-8mbps. I drive fifteen minutes west to where I went to high school, and I get speeds of 20-22mbps.
Third, HSPA+42 speeds are THEORETICAL. You can THEORETICALLY have speeds that fast. You aren't guaranteed to.
Also, HSPA+42 is still 3G.
Sent from my SGH-T999
It looks like you encountered massive traffic or the backhaul is not upgraded.
I had the same problem. I kept upgrading phones, buying them full price so I didn't have to renew my contract but I just kept switching my old SIM card into my new phones. When I switched to the Sensation I called T-Mobile about my slow speeds and they told me I had to upgrade to a "4G SIM card" and that worked. I would say that could be your problem but being that you now have the S3 and it has the micro SIM card then maybe they didn't upgrade your area yet.
That sucks dude...I'm out in Orlando, FL and I usually get about 10-15mbps almost anywhere...
At home I get +15mbps every time...
I attached a photo with the difference of my WiFi at home and my HSPA+42 at home. These were after a ROM change so I only have 5.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Do you notice the same speeds on other speed tests or super sluggish browsing?
It's possible to imagine that the nearest and even lowest pingable server is simple not responsive to your (up/down)link. I usually compare to freespeedtest.com and even grab files from local servers.
Also you server's routing table could be weird.
If not, I'm inclined to believe that it is an overhead problem.
Go to the phone dialer (on stock) and try doing
*#197328640#*
1:UMTS
1ebug Screen
1:Basic Information
And check the bottom item lines. You should see some connection information about your service. Can you list what you have?
Also, jic check the Band at the top and make sure it says 4. Possibly could be defaulting to 1900 experimental.