Related
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
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Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
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I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
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My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.
stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
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By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
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You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.
lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
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Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P
Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
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Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
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I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!
Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.
jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
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Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
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Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.
mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
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I can deny it.
This post talks about a lot of devices besides the Lumia and as a result it is a little long, so I've bolded the key points for speed readers
I went on vacation last week and come back to an uproar about current devices not getting Windows 8 Phone updates (better name ), and honestly I really don't understand the vastness of the unrest. I get the points people make, but the conclusions are way out there for me!
My family is reasonably well equipped technology wise. I have an Alienware m17x, a 1st gen iPad, a Nokia Lumia 900, and a PS3. My wife has a Mac Book Pro 15, an iPad 2, and an iPhone 4s. The kids are on a Gateway desktop with an i7 in the living room. The kids also have iPods, one has a Pantec phone, several DS and LeapFrog devices. Rounding it all out is a smart Logitec universal touch screen remote, a sling box, several access points and a Wii. For the most part, we each pick the device that suits us best and fits in the price range / budget we set.
We also have laying around, an old Mac Book Pro 13, an iPhone 3s, an iPod, an 8 year old Dell XPS desktop, an HTC HD7, a Samsung Focus, a Tilt and a Tilt II, and an old Palm Tungsten C. And of course several candy bar and flip phone cells and various MP3 players, language translators and hand-held game thingies.
There's no way in hell I can have all of these devices on the crest of the technology wave all at once, we just can't afford it (in fact, my wife isn't so thrilled with how well stocked we are now... but there are times she's very happy with it :laugh.
My next major purchase will be a Win8 Tablet. I absolutely need to replace the iPad for work - the thing is a toy. In my quest for the ultimate portable work slate / play device, nothing out there has attracted my attention. Lack of connectivity, poor performance, a craptacular crayon-style writing on the iPad, lack-luster hardware, and the fact that I would also like an 11 to 13-inch screen has kept my money in my pocket. Obviously, I'm holding out until Win8 and the right tablet is there (eying the Yoga Flip closely!).
With the announcement of smart glass at E3, the urge was to jump on the deals and grab an XBox 360. ESPECIALLY since I could hook up all those iOS and possible future 'droid devices too! But, without BluRay support, I'm not going to bother. And with the next tablet purchase coming later this year (fingers crossed the right one is there in the next 6 months...), and with the 720 being rumored for the holidays next year. I'm waiting on switching from PS to XBOX when the 720 comes out, assuming the next-gen PS doesn't keep me in Sony Land.
It should be noted that along with the smart glass upgrade, I'll be looking at my existing Yamaha receiver and possibly upgrading that as well - my 5 year old model is good enough, but there are improvements out there and better ways to hook up the living room 'rack' - so that's also factored into the actual cost.
Which brings me to my jumping on the Lumia the day after it was available: I bought the Lumia knowing the risks of not being Win8 ready. I took the other slant with this upgrade as opposed to my next game machine and PC/Slate/Untrabook. I was contract-ready with AT&T, the price was right (and a few days later it was $0 - but they had me at $99), it had just enough improvements over my HD7 to entice me, and I didn't see me waiting until Q4 2012 or even Q1 or 2 2013 to get the phone upgraded.
Maybe it's within the context of all of the technology purchases I've got going on in my life that the Lumia 900 is just right for me. It is, by far, hands down, the BEST phone I've ever had. Excellent battery life, excellent responsiveness, great connectivity, and much to my amazement: the BEST reception and call clarity I've ever experienced on a smart phone. (I'm the only one in our downtown MPLS building who can send and receive calls anywhere on the campus, and never loose my 4G data connection).
I've been shocked at the excellent support from Nokia app-wise, and firmware-wise, and am very happy for the WP community to benefit from further integration of Nokia apps for non-Nokia phones. This phone, which I use first and foremost as a mobile phone (this part just HAS to be rock-solid for me), for all my e-mail all day long, for my browsing, gaming / entertainment, news and feed reading, and music play back is perfect for me as-is. The WP 7.8 update is just extras I didn't even expect.
No regrets. None. Nil. Not even close. I've purchased too many phones, computers, tablets, and other odd-n-ends to expect today's buy to still be tomorrow's top device. It NEVER works that way. 1 month later, the next device is just around the corner. 2 months later, another OS has better devices and features. 6 months later (or less) a new device is on my network for WP with new features I can't get on my current device. I had no reason to expect this to be my last phone purchase :silly:
Bigger screen support, NFC, multi-core... duh. I mean DUH if you thought this device would stand up to next-gen hardware. If you have a Nokia 900 and are upset it isn't the model being released in 6 months then you've got a significant learning curve ahead of you for all the other things in your life that you'll be buying. No way around it - it doesn't feel good, but it's an obvious truth. To expect otherwise is to believe in a spaghetti monster living on the other side of the moon. Sorry, but it's true.
When I do upgrade my phone, it'll be Nokia and it'll be W8P (still a better name, even at the end of this post :angel and it'll be cutting edge when it's that device's turn to get the latest and greatest.
Sorry for the length of my post, but the negativity around here is just plain silly and not worth the effort (for those experiencing it, and those of us who have to sift through it to get to actual facts).
Edit: I should have added that I am VERY happy with the updates I will get for my existing hardware, and also that I'm VERY happy that W8P will not support existing hardware. My reasons are that the hardware is improving at an extraordinary rate, and when I do get my next device I'll have one that has an OS that isn't bogged down with backwards compatibility issues - something that plagued windows for so many years until the hardware leveled out.
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
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Actually, only the un-happy are noisy. Most people I actually know and talk too either couldn't care less, or are perfectly fine with it. Nokia will be fine. MS will be fine. WP8, Win8, and XBox will be just fine. There are ALWAYS people who scream dooms-day, but it never comes. Everything is always just fine
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
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Click to collapse
Totally wrong uninformed.....
I also am happy with my lumia 900 and also it was a decision I made whether to wait for WP8 or not.. ( I was actually waiting for the Lumia 900 as it had a front facing camera against the lumia 800).
There is always new tech coming out every 3 months a so and you either wait or get what is on offer that suits your need.
Regarding the WP8 update I am not so much bothered ( only regret is the nokia pureview camera 808).
I come from a Samsung galaxy S2 and the for me the SGS2 has been the best android device by far and the SGS3 didn't appeal to me at all, besides people were always complaing How most apps were not optimised to use the DUAL CORE of the SGS2.
Similiar things will happen when WP8 comes around there will be fewer apps and most current DEVS will keep developing for WP7 as they have just about got hang of it. So it will be atleast another year or so when we see Quality apps both for WP8 and Windows 8 which is just starting out as well, by which time I will be ready to purchace my Second Gen WP8 Just like my Second Gen lumia 900.
NFC is also not very popular in the UK at present and probably you will get NFC through sim cards or as stickers.
Till Next year my Lumia 900 rocks.. and then I will have decided about my next phone
sakenfenc said:
Totally wrong uninformed.....
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Click to collapse
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
jr97ai said:
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
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Click to collapse
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Click to collapse
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP, go figure. You don't have to tell people to go buy an iPhone. In fact, MS WANTS people to state "go buy a WP." Will anyone say this? Hell no, not even you.
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back. I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer. Feature wise? No, too obvious. Fluidity? No because phones nowadays are supercharged, 2-3 seconds faster doesn't mean crap to fill up the gap of features. Update path? complete BS.
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
Why are ppl so much bothered about updates?
I bought my Lumia 900 simply because it looks awsome and is more reliable than any other smarthphone i have used. Surely it has bad points too but i dont give a damn.
I use my Lumia 900 to its last breath everyday, i am heave tweeter, emailing surfig gaming, calling etc. WP7 is perfect as it is, it only needs some minor touches.
Same goes for Android and IOS (in their childhood days, these OSes were not complete either, Infact IOS is still struggling with main features.
I was too keen on recieveing updates on my older phones but each time i updated problems started to come along. As soon as my Xperia X10 got updated to 2.3 i sold it after a week. My galaxy s2 when got updated to ICS i sold it after 3 days due to amount of FC and other lags. My Iphone 3gs i sold it after one week when got updated to IOS 4
Pls guys grow up.
yaiba60 said:
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP
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Click to collapse
Got some facts or figures to back that up?
yaiba60 said:
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back.
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Click to collapse
Key word: Few. Well, 2 key words then: noisy.
I've seen this happen so many times before: Video games, TV shows, politics, religion... none of it ever comes true. A few leave in a huff, noisily disgruntled, and the rest continue on without any problems.
There's no dooms day, there's no market share problem, there's no negative impact what so ever with sales. Drag my post up in 6 months and prove me wrong about that, but I sincerely doubt that it will end up any other way.
yaiba60 said:
I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer.
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Click to collapse
This is the only truth you've stated. It's your choice, always has been, always will be. And there's nothing wrong with your position, as it fits you at this time.
yaiba60 said:
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
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Click to collapse
Don't really feel like a sheep - heck, I posted the opposite of the current flavor of the week as far as opinions. And what I stated was my choice, always has been, always will be.
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Click to collapse
Wy dont you at least post something pertinant to the conversation? The forums are made for discussion and thats what we are doing. I respect peoples opinions here if they agree or disagree with me but yours are plain useless.
I dont have to go and buy another phone because I have issues with what is happening. I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
I didnt have another 400 plus dollars to drop on a wp 7 device so I took an android device from my provider. I liked it alot and it received both a Gingerbread update and ICS. But I wanted a Windows phone so I bought the Samsung Focus which I just replaced it with the Lumia.
What frustrates me is that people are putting words in our mouths here. I dont hear anyone who complained saying they hate the Lumia or that they expect to get an update with features that apply to hardware that doesnt exist.
They just want an upgrade path such as the one Microsoft is providing to those who buy a pc before Windows 8 is released.
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
In summary I will post my opinion and if you dont like it go read some static website with no discussion or coments.
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
yaiba60 said:
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
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Click to collapse
*shrug* you posted on my thread - where I stated what I've done and where I'm at and what I plan to do, by complaining and taking things I said out of context and changing the meaning (i.e. noisy people), then attribute my post to being some kind of MS hype.
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
I'm sorry for your sense of loss, I sincerly hope you find peace (this is not sarcastic, I mean it - it's only a phone after all ).
I believe you are missing a few points here:
jr97ai said:
I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
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Click to collapse
Would you really have preferred that the 6.5 device were upgraded to WP7? That would have held WP7 back on specs/features, with the exception of a few phones (HD2).
jr97ai said:
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
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Click to collapse
Again, don't think for a moment that the Lumia 900 is out of the game. There are SO MANY of them out there now, that they will become the next HD2. DEVs are going to bring WP8 to the Lumia, mark my words. The device is too nice not to go there.
As for Microsoft not bringing it, I could care less. My Lumia is the best phone I've owned since I've been using wireless. And my first Mobile phone was a Motorola Bag Phone. Yes, the heavy shoulder strap phone that lasted about 3 hours and cost $200-$1500 per month to use. I've owned MANY phones over these years, and again, the Lumia 900 beats them ALL, hands down. If it was never upgraded to WP8, that's just fine! They did NOT say they were going to stop supporting it, they just said they were not going to port WP8 to it. There's a Big difference. You will still get updates, you will still get leading edge software, you will still get firmware updates. I don't see the problem.
When does a company decide when to stop supporting Full OS upgrades? It's a tough decision I'm sure, but it has to be made. If they offered OS upgrades forever, they would never make enough money to continue to develop. I don't want to see that happening.
My next phone will also be a Nokia. They are going to support WP better than any other OS, because they HAVE to in order to survive. They've already shown their support in a big way, and they've shown how they are going to continue to do so. Maybe it will not be WP8, but it will be the next best thing. A new Start Screen that most everyone has been anxious to get, and a host of other updates are to come. Just because they have not spelled it all out, does not mean it's not happening. They said all the NON-HARDWARE features would be brought to the Lumia. That could include All Sorts of Fantastic things. Some have already arrived (Camera Extras, Play-To), and I'm sure they will bring a lot more.
Before WP7, I also wanted the latest ROM or OS on my Windows Mobile phones, and to some extent, still do. I even ported and cooked ROMs to get there. But since using WP, I am not quite as anxious, because it really works quite well. That's mostly what I was trying to get out of Windows Mobile. Stable, Fast, Fun. WP Already has that!
My opinion, give Winkia/Nokidows a little time to prove where they are going to take us. Honestly, by the time WP8 comes around, I'll be itching for a new device anyways, so my Lumia 900 will replace my Focus as my Test Bed/Dev device...
Nobody talks about doomsday and whatnot, at least I never stated them. You got delusions about doomsday or is it haunting you
WP is small fry, idc about facts for this. If you love it, go research to back it up, don't tell me this and that. If you were successful, maybe MS would want you in its WP marketing team and pay you nicely. I never told you to agree with me. My style is "take it or leave it." My writing is not to convince, but to explain. I don't assume you this and that (heck I never even made a statement how you felt about your phone). However, it looks like you do assume a lot of thing about me. Why do you care? :laugh:
P/S: all my three Lumia 900 have been craigslisted successfully, I feel relieved
eknutson said:
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
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Click to collapse
I too am very happy with my Lumia 900. Coming from a Samsung Captivate, I can't complain. The difference is just night and day. It didn't bother me knowing the phone's inability for a WP8 update. When those devices come out, buy'em. Problem solved. When WP9 devices come out, buy'em! Problem solved..and so on.
The world is fortunate to have a vast variety of technological options. Options which never ceases to evolve. No need to whine when your brand new toy becomes obsolete tomorrow. Technology is about evolution.
Like what eknutson said, it's just a phone after all.
guys this thread is about some one likes the Lumia 900 and I love my Lumia 900 tooo.... so keep it to it...
all the people are talking about is that wp 7.8 will not be as good as the WP8..... come on no one knows what will be in WP7.8 and WP8???? this is stupidity to argue about things MS do not want to tell people right now...
and second of all MS and Nokia are not stupid that they will screw up users...
last but not least if your phone do not have NFC and high res screen then MS do not think the OS should be WP8, i am fine with it...
and if i dont get the WP8 or WP7.8 my phone still works graet i am very happy...
Microsoft officially announced what will be in 7.8: new home screen, 100,000 apps and counting, and Nokia Lumia exclusive apps.
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
Dark_Ansem said:
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
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Click to collapse
Using "max luminosity", your battery will die much quicker. You will probably want to experiment with different settings to get a good look, and battery life. I used Automatic, and was happy most of the time.
Also, you can actually cut your SIM card using a knife or scissors to make it fit your phone. I've done it a few times. At least until you can get to the store and get a new one. Just look at photos on the internet to get an idea where to cut it, Pretty close, and it will work. Also, make sure it fits the sim tray well, so it does not hang up on the sim slot.
Been thinking a bit.
I have been waiting for a Nokia WP phone since dec.2011. I'm sure that just like many of you, I have been disappointed by the lack of WP8 update.
But then, I looked at my phone.
I currently own a Motorola defy +, a device which currently is stuck at Android 2.3.4. I never got a 4.0 update for my phone. The reason? Phone stability. The community did indeed attempt to port 4.0 on my phone, but sadly, I see it as a potential failure; there are still lots of bugs to iron out, and it will take more time to fix than what I suppose the devs will ever waste time on.
Do I complain? Hardly. I complain about the OS being Android and thus a cheap, unstable OS. But nothing else.
So, 2.3 isn't that bad, and 4.0 isn't that necessary. I live with it.
Now, how I see stuff in the WP universe?
7.8 isn't that bad, and 8.0 isn't that necessary.
I live with it.
And honestly, I am really tempted to get a lumia 800. And maybe even will. I seriously doubt that cheap 8 phones will appear instantly, since people want dual-cores and more RAM, and, and...
But I think that WP7.8 will remain the cheap version of 8, and that we will even see new phones with 7.8 on board. All for the sake of OS stability.
You can't be the fastest guy with your tech stuff unless you're bloody rich.
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
That is the big question: what will the Windows Phone answer for the low-end and emerging market? Will it be these running 7.8 or 8? Honestly, I cannot see Microsoft wanting both to co-exist for very long.
To MS, 7 has not been exactly a big hit with the general public. Plus, I would think that Microsoft would want to get all Windows Phone users onto 8 as soon as possible. That way, they can grow the platform the fastest without being dragged down by the old OS. When WP8 launches later this year, they want a big splash where lots of people buy into it right away. They cannot afford no interest or even a lackluster response. That is why I think Nokia and/or Microsoft should consider a trade-in program where WP7 users get some sort of discount on a WP8 device. At least this way, the tech news websites will report that WP8 is off to a great start. When 7 was launched, there were sites that called it DOA.
drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change the third instantly to forever and change another two instantly to probably would be the correct answer, though no one would like to commit the fact.:cyclops:
A smartphone without proper apps is just a dumbphone. For those who lives well without apps, low end Android and Symbian phones would fit their needs while saving their money, why bother spending more than 500EUR for such a device? (Don't tell me the AT&T offer unless you can bring it worldwide) Let's see how M$ deal with this situation.
fatclue said:
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I myself have considered a lot of things about the WP7.8 update, but I didn't realize MS disallows the use of apps as soon as WP8 is released... oh, wait. it doesn't!
The WP7 Marketplace will not instantly disappear. You will still be able to install all of the apps already in the marketplace. Granted, the flow of apps *might* slow down but surely it wont stop instantly seeing as WP8 needs to gain adoption before being a reasonable mobile ecosystem to abandon WP7. But WP7 has a magnitude of apps already available to its disposal that cover a lot of functions so your phone will not be useless unless it is already useless.
Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Frosty3k said:
and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Frosty3k said:
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Questions
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
efektos said:
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 7.8 startscreen lands on current 7.5 hardware you can wave BB to updates...thats it...MS will be all about the new wp8. Pls dont play stupid on this..you know what we are talking about.
efektos said:
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a giro and a ff camera dosen't make a phone that much better 800 and 900 are almost the same, except the 900 was built primarily as an US device, while the 800 has the right form factor for EU and Asia.
I wont debate over what you said about the lumia 800 not being high end...its a matter of opinion. Actually I'll go into into in just a bit
For example i dont find the GSIII to be a better phone. I dosent matter how many CPUs you have and how much ram...its how you use those resources..and that GSIII still lags...but other users that are not so mad with android...might like it 10 times more than a lumia. It depends on what you like, and over the years, I realized its a loosing battle trying to convince someone that your point of view is the right one.
That being said, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my post, your reply is offtopic, and i have the feeling you are arguing just for the sake or arguing.
ebautista said:
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
4. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said "4." 2 times.
fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe it will not "gone". But slowly will go down. If WP8 will release, developers will be divided. Some will do native (C/C++), some will stay in wp7 coz MSFT said WP7 apps will still run in WP8, and some will do both but of course eventually will stop supporting wp7 as time goes.
---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated. thanks man!
fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Frosty3k said:
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you missed it, the 6.5 Marketplace shut down last month. Yes, May 2012. Sorry Sparky, your gloom and doom forecasts are way out of whack. I still use WM and it works the same, if not better than, as it did 3 years ago. There is no self-destruct button on these things once a newer system comes to town. Face it, technology moves faster than your 2-year contract. Why do I even bother wasting my time? I'm out.
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
rajan17_88 said:
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
1/ Android does many things. It is nearly complete feature-wise. My HTC G2 runs like a champ. Plus everybody knows about droid fragmented updates but they don't care, the thing is live, not beta.
2/ I hate iPhone because it is expensive and full of fanboism. Still it is better for 1 year old phone to miss only one or two exclusively new features than a six-month old to get only one new visual feature and miss out the functional rest. See the difference there?
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will even consider buying blackberry or iPhone just for their customer support which is way better than MS support.
WP8 has a user base of zero right now - and is unlikely to be more than WP7 by the end of the year .. why will devs not write for wp7 as well as WP8 ? for the majority of apps the Silverlight/XNA is fine.. for the Apps for which this not true then they won't run anyhow.. not at all like WM6.5 - in that case none of the apps were x-compatible to WP7 and you had to start again.. clearly not the case here..
Oh, and what's with the "M$" nonsense - like Google & Apple don't care about $$$ ? - duh I forgot those guys channel all their profits into searching for a cure for cancer...
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Count me in!
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.
jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lool.
Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!
I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..
mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.
Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.
Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse