Develop Bugs

An idea for the poor ones with no WP8 update. - Windows Phone 7 General

Been thinking a bit.
I have been waiting for a Nokia WP phone since dec.2011. I'm sure that just like many of you, I have been disappointed by the lack of WP8 update.
But then, I looked at my phone.
I currently own a Motorola defy +, a device which currently is stuck at Android 2.3.4. I never got a 4.0 update for my phone. The reason? Phone stability. The community did indeed attempt to port 4.0 on my phone, but sadly, I see it as a potential failure; there are still lots of bugs to iron out, and it will take more time to fix than what I suppose the devs will ever waste time on.
Do I complain? Hardly. I complain about the OS being Android and thus a cheap, unstable OS. But nothing else.
So, 2.3 isn't that bad, and 4.0 isn't that necessary. I live with it.
Now, how I see stuff in the WP universe?
7.8 isn't that bad, and 8.0 isn't that necessary.
I live with it.
And honestly, I am really tempted to get a lumia 800. And maybe even will. I seriously doubt that cheap 8 phones will appear instantly, since people want dual-cores and more RAM, and, and...
But I think that WP7.8 will remain the cheap version of 8, and that we will even see new phones with 7.8 on board. All for the sake of OS stability.
You can't be the fastest guy with your tech stuff unless you're bloody rich.

I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then

That is the big question: what will the Windows Phone answer for the low-end and emerging market? Will it be these running 7.8 or 8? Honestly, I cannot see Microsoft wanting both to co-exist for very long.
To MS, 7 has not been exactly a big hit with the general public. Plus, I would think that Microsoft would want to get all Windows Phone users onto 8 as soon as possible. That way, they can grow the platform the fastest without being dragged down by the old OS. When WP8 launches later this year, they want a big splash where lots of people buy into it right away. They cannot afford no interest or even a lackluster response. That is why I think Nokia and/or Microsoft should consider a trade-in program where WP7 users get some sort of discount on a WP8 device. At least this way, the tech news websites will report that WP8 is off to a great start. When 7 was launched, there were sites that called it DOA.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change the third instantly to forever and change another two instantly to probably would be the correct answer, though no one would like to commit the fact.:cyclops:
A smartphone without proper apps is just a dumbphone. For those who lives well without apps, low end Android and Symbian phones would fit their needs while saving their money, why bother spending more than 500EUR for such a device? (Don't tell me the AT&T offer unless you can bring it worldwide) Let's see how M$ deal with this situation.

fatclue said:
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I myself have considered a lot of things about the WP7.8 update, but I didn't realize MS disallows the use of apps as soon as WP8 is released... oh, wait. it doesn't!
The WP7 Marketplace will not instantly disappear. You will still be able to install all of the apps already in the marketplace. Granted, the flow of apps *might* slow down but surely it wont stop instantly seeing as WP8 needs to gain adoption before being a reasonable mobile ecosystem to abandon WP7. But WP7 has a magnitude of apps already available to its disposal that cover a lot of functions so your phone will not be useless unless it is already useless.

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Frosty3k said:
and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...

Frosty3k said:
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.

Questions
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?

efektos said:
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 7.8 startscreen lands on current 7.5 hardware you can wave BB to updates...thats it...MS will be all about the new wp8. Pls dont play stupid on this..you know what we are talking about.
efektos said:
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a giro and a ff camera dosen't make a phone that much better 800 and 900 are almost the same, except the 900 was built primarily as an US device, while the 800 has the right form factor for EU and Asia.
I wont debate over what you said about the lumia 800 not being high end...its a matter of opinion. Actually I'll go into into in just a bit
For example i dont find the GSIII to be a better phone. I dosent matter how many CPUs you have and how much ram...its how you use those resources..and that GSIII still lags...but other users that are not so mad with android...might like it 10 times more than a lumia. It depends on what you like, and over the years, I realized its a loosing battle trying to convince someone that your point of view is the right one.
That being said, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my post, your reply is offtopic, and i have the feeling you are arguing just for the sake or arguing.

ebautista said:
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
4. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said "4." 2 times.

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe it will not "gone". But slowly will go down. If WP8 will release, developers will be divided. Some will do native (C/C++), some will stay in wp7 coz MSFT said WP7 apps will still run in WP8, and some will do both but of course eventually will stop supporting wp7 as time goes.
---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated. thanks man!

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.

Frosty3k said:
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you missed it, the 6.5 Marketplace shut down last month. Yes, May 2012. Sorry Sparky, your gloom and doom forecasts are way out of whack. I still use WM and it works the same, if not better than, as it did 3 years ago. There is no self-destruct button on these things once a newer system comes to town. Face it, technology moves faster than your 2-year contract. Why do I even bother wasting my time? I'm out.

I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP

rajan17_88 said:
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.

1/ Android does many things. It is nearly complete feature-wise. My HTC G2 runs like a champ. Plus everybody knows about droid fragmented updates but they don't care, the thing is live, not beta.
2/ I hate iPhone because it is expensive and full of fanboism. Still it is better for 1 year old phone to miss only one or two exclusively new features than a six-month old to get only one new visual feature and miss out the functional rest. See the difference there?
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will even consider buying blackberry or iPhone just for their customer support which is way better than MS support.

WP8 has a user base of zero right now - and is unlikely to be more than WP7 by the end of the year .. why will devs not write for wp7 as well as WP8 ? for the majority of apps the Silverlight/XNA is fine.. for the Apps for which this not true then they won't run anyhow.. not at all like WM6.5 - in that case none of the apps were x-compatible to WP7 and you had to start again.. clearly not the case here..
Oh, and what's with the "M$" nonsense - like Google & Apple don't care about $$$ ? - duh I forgot those guys channel all their profits into searching for a cure for cancer...

Related

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.

So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?

I would love to know too. Almost sold my Lumia already, but I dont know which phone I get instead it. I'll keep it for a while.
Guess we will know in a few days, no one knows it right now.

Paul Thurrott has a write-up about this here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476

Wait.. No multitasking? Nor Skype integrated!?!?

Seems like MS is doing everything to loose these 1-2% of the smartphones market...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502

I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!

luizmeme said:
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just contacted the WinPhoneSupport:
http://www.twitter.com/WinPhoneSupport/status/215556734205435904
@WinPhoneSupport: @ChrisK91 The only thing announced for 7.8 is the change of the start screen. ^EB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

ruyzalim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
Windows Phone 8 is a generation shift in technology, which means that it will not run on existing hardware. BUT we care deeply about our existing customers and want to keep their phones fresh, so we’re providing the new Start screen in this new update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...

freddx said:
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.

jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I was in rage....but an update with more features would be nice The "old" hardware can do more than only a new start screen. Apple even gives a iOS6 lite to the 3Gs and all appstore-apps are compatible...

sensboston said:
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You shouldn't sell MS stocks right now, because of one developer summit. Of course, there are a lot of disappointed users (including me) about the way MS took. But I don't think that every point in your list is valid. I doubt that WP7 sales will drop to 0. There are a lot of people buying phones based on feel. However I guess the WP7 sales will decrease in the coming months. At least the sales of new expensive devices like the Titan or Lumia 900. I also expect the prices of current handsets to drop over a few days.
Microsofts course could harm Nokia, I totally agree. When they made Nokia Drive available to every device, Nokia lost a unique selling point. One of the reasons why I bought a Lumia 800 was the free navigation. I'm expecting that Nokia's stock will drop even further in the coming days, if there aren't any new announcements that "improve" the current situation.
I also get that developers will target new phones. However how do you develop for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8? Most likely with C# and the .Net framework. And guess what? You can run .Net based Apps on Windows Phone 7 as well. But at first I was also skeptical about this question and asked it in a Nokia Conversations discussion. The answer of a Nokia employee is attached.
the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. However they can gain (at least my) trust back by providing not only the new start screen, but other improvements as well. The rumored new notification system comes to mind.
All in all I guess this announcement did not resolve the current update situation. In a nutshell MS stated that WP8 will be based on a new kernel and that this new kernel won't come to existing devices. Most of the new announcements were hardware related. One of the software things is the start screen, and this one is coming in Windows Phone 7.8. Did did not say, that this start screen is the only thing in this update. As stated above, MS should release (and continue releasing) updates that add WP8 functionality to WP7.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's of course expensive. But if Microsoft stays coherent with the kernel they could most likely reuse the code in the future. But I think the problem is hardware related. On one side there are the NFC features. Also the SecureBoot can't be integrated (at least AFAIK) only software vise. They have special hardware requirements and current phones don't meet them. Then again, the current CPUs are very fast and can run the Windows Phone 7.8 experience.

Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...

@sensbottom: let me correct your two mistakes there:
a) 4GB is really limit of 32bit operating systems. PAE requires the applications to support it => almost none do.
b) Supporting another system takes more money than upgrading them to the same one. Long term.

@OndaTer, first of all, I'm sensboston (Boston - it's a city on the East cost of US)
Second, read this: http://www.unawave.de/windows-7-tipps/32-bit-ram-barrier.html?lang=EN You may google for more if you want...
Third, what do you mean by "another system"? What "another" system? WP8 devices will have same CPU (arm) as current handsets; of course, adding support of current handsets should cost some money! But loosing the trust (finally) is much more expensive, you'll see it by the end of this month (even week). Just mark today's MS stock price...

Sorry, I always read it that way
a) Yes, it is called PAE, which is exactly what I wrote. Read it again! It is NOT possible to address >4GB with 32bit addresses. PAE uses 36bit addressing, but the application HAS to be compiled to be able to support the extra space!
b) "It is more money consuming (long term) to work on 7.8 line and 8.0+ line."
// I mean - application itself has only 4GB virtual space. Yes, the rest of the system can move the base of each application and thus use >4GB RAM. But note that also drivers must support it and that's why it is usually targetted at servers and it is disabled on desktops!
// ah I see what you mean - I thought that they removed it after SP2 or SP3 of XP (the issues with driver compatibility with PAE enabled).

sensboston said:
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.

ChrisKringel said:
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS!
Im a little annoyed that my titan wont get the full WP8 update but im sure it will still get some new features! they've only shown WP8 once so far at a dev summit and people are saying they are going to sell there phones its mad! also i dont get people complaining that there first gen phones are getting WP8! they will be 2 years old!!! You are getting a update like apple would basically so stop complaining! If you were on android you would be out in the cold with a two year old handset most likely

WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!

luizmeme said:
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
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ok your getting a WP7.8 update arent you? you dont know what thats going to contain yet! also by the time this comes out your phone will actually be 12 months old almost and oh yes last time i checked the phone isnt suddenly going to stop working is it!

With the release of WP8 and cutoff of supports for the current WP7 lineups, MS just shot themselves in the foot by doing two things:
_ Introduce fragmentation: now developers have to work extra harder to support both the existing WP7.x customers and the new WP8 customer base.
_ Piss off and alienating all the customers that have been with MS through ups and downs: note that this is more important because WP has never been popular, most people will either get an Android or iPhone and only the loyal and diehards get WP7. With this announcement, MS has effectively give all its loyal users the middle finger. For users who haven't abandoned WP despite being shafted by the whole HD2 and WM6.5 fiasco, this will be the LAST STRAW, trust me.
A bit about my phone history, I have had an HD2, a Samsung Focus and a Dell Venue Pro but no more, I will not give M$ another chance. Trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice shame on me. History will repeat itself, MS will once again abandon users of WP8 and WP8.5 when announcing WP9. The only ones who haven't realized this is the die-hard MS fanboys who are keep on coming back to M$ no matter how bad M$ treats them.
Heed my advices, give other platforms a try and use this as a breakup point for this abusive relationship. M$ doesn't deserve your money and your time. Use that money to buy something that will be properly supported and more importantly you will be treated like a valuable customer.

that is what i'm planning to do, the WP7.5 market is still under 100k apps if i'm not mistaken, if i'm a developer, do i actually continue to make SW for the 7.5 or 8 group? if i start producing for 8, how much customer base does M$ gonna guarantee to have? i'm switching back to android for my next phone, but for the time being, i'll still use the 900 for some period of time coz i actually like the design... but M$ just gave another reason for developer NOT to develop apps for them...

darren486 said:
that is what i'm planning to do, the WP7.5 market is still under 100k apps if i'm not mistaken, if i'm a developer, do i actually continue to make SW for the 7.5 or 8 group? if i start producing for 8, how much customer base does M$ gonna guarantee to have? i'm switching back to android for my next phone, but for the time being, i'll still use the 900 for some period of time coz i actually like the design... but M$ just gave another reason for developer NOT to develop apps for them...
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Click to collapse
TROLLS.....Ask yourself this question:
If you have a 3GS iphone with IOS 5 is it the same as the 4s??
MS will update all phones but if you don't have the hardware to take full advantage of OS it is NOT their fault.
Apple, Android and everybody else do the same...

Enough with this iPhone 3GS BS, the 3GS is over 3 years old. How long are you fanboys going to use that as an excuse to justify how the Lumia users were treated ?
If you want to compare, let's compare iPhone 4. iPhone 4 was released in 2010 but they are still supported, they have the iOS 5 and will be able to take advantage of the iOS 6 kernel. You don't see iPhone 4 was made obsolete and cannot run iOS 5 or iOS 6 application.
Stop fooling yourself and wake up. If you don't want to wake up, suit yourself. I am out of this rocky boat and will move to where I will be treated better.

Apple still omits some features from older phones when a new version of iOS is released. iOS 5 was released and the iPhone 4 didn't get Siri, however that phone is fully capable of running Siri. Talk about getting screwed.
Android users a lot of times don't even get the updates they need, it all depends on the device they have, and new/replacement Android phones are released at an insane rate as well.
By the time WP8 is released the Lumia will be roughly 7-8 months old.
I don't think Lumia 900 owners are totally getting screwed.
I am glad Microsoft will be adding some of features the Lumia 900 will be able to run efficiently. Otherwise adding full blown WP8 to the device may bog it down and it will run terrible.
The Lumia 900 also lacks the hardware for some of the new features such as NFC. Why add these software features to a phone that cannot take advantage of them.
This is how Apple, Google and Microsoft all do business.

RandomXIII said:
Enough with this iPhone 3GS BS, the 3GS is over 3 years old. How long are you fanboys going to use that as an excuse to justify how the Lumia users were treated ?
If you want to compare, let's compare iPhone 4. iPhone 4 was released in 2010 but they are still supported, they have the iOS 5 and will be able to take advantage of the iOS 6 kernel. You don't see iPhone 4 was made obsolete and cannot run iOS 5 or iOS 6 application.
Stop fooling yourself and wake up. If you don't want to wake up, suit yourself. I am out of this rocky boat and will move to where I will be treated better.
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Very well said and the Lumia is way newer than older iPhone models that still got big chunks of the updates.

If Microsoft released WP8 for the Lumia and the phone couldn't handle it and ran sluggish people would *****, instead they are releasing WP 7.8 for it and people are *****ing.
No matter what Microsoft does, people are going to whine about it.
Welcome to the world of tech. If you are always worried about not having the latest and greatest, then you'd spend your time waiting for the next great device 3-6 months from now and you'd never buy a phone.

RandomXIII said:
You don't see iPhone 4 was made obsolete and cannot run iOS 5 or iOS 6 application.
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Except that is exactly what is happening. It can't run every iOS 6 feature, including the headlining turn-by-turn navigation. It can't even run the headline iOS 5 feature, that's iPhone 4S exclusive too.
If Microsoft had just basically lied and called this the Windows Phone 8 update with some missing features, there would be no uproar. But because they opted not to take the Apple route, everyone's got their knickers in a twist.

lowlymarine said:
Except that is exactly what is happening. It can't run every iOS 6 feature, including the headlining turn-by-turn navigation. It can't even run the headline iOS 5 feature, that's iPhone 4S exclusive too.
If Microsoft had just basically lied and called this the Windows Phone 8 update with some missing features, there would be no uproar. But because they opted not to take the Apple route, everyone's got their knickers in a twist.
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Click to collapse
I agree , the iphone 4 and 4S ,won't have NFC features ... No android phone has gotten an update in a timely fashion. Nokia and Ms are on top of it.
Plus with WP there is no need for Dual core and sd cards that is reserved for memory hogs with leaks , I won't mention names.

RandomXIII said:
With the release of WP8 and cutoff of supports for the current WP7 lineups...
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I stopped reading your uninformed rant right there. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the subject matter if you want people to take you seriously.

And every new iPhone comes out with 1 or two new exclusive features while the rest comes to older generations because of their appropriately phrased "hardware upgrade". WP is what? New generation has many new features while older generations get maybe 1 or 2 new things? Now if you think Apple is doing it wrong and MS is doing the right thing, it's time to look at sales chart and consumer satisfaction. Oh maybe you still think MS is right and ignore that very few people are with you on this boat.
Android, on the other hand, is well known for its fragmentation in update, everyone is aware of it. The deal is, Gingerbread is almost complete. Android is like an arm race "may the most powerful phone win" kind of thing. Android never boasts about update but the Nexus line did get its update. Had MS had enough balls to confirm the fate of the Lumia 900 before its launch, I doubt the sexy phone would have seen the light of day. Now if WP8 announces another type of marketplace, that would mean a death certificate has been signed for WP7.
lowlymarine said:
Except that is exactly what is happening. It can't run every iOS 6 feature, including the headlining turn-by-turn navigation. It can't even run the headline iOS 5 feature, that's iPhone 4S exclusive too.
If Microsoft had just basically lied and called this the Windows Phone 8 update with some missing features, there would be no uproar. But because they opted not to take the Apple route, everyone's got their knickers in a twist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

RandomXIII said:
Enough with this iPhone 3GS BS, the 3GS is over 3 years old. How long are you fanboys going to use that as an excuse to justify how the Lumia users were treated ?
If you want to compare, let's compare iPhone 4. iPhone 4 was released in 2010 but they are still supported, they have the iOS 5 and will be able to take advantage of the iOS 6 kernel. You don't see iPhone 4 was made obsolete and cannot run iOS 5 or iOS 6 application.
Stop fooling yourself and wake up. If you don't want to wake up, suit yourself. I am out of this rocky boat and will move to where I will be treated better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you want an iPhone, go buy an iPhone. But don't use wp8 as the excuse. Fanboy or no, any argument used to defend your point is wrong. Apple foes the same thing. Android is worse. So if you want an iPhone,go buy one. I hope you end up happy.

Ok, iPhone 4 might not be able to run all features available in iOS 6 but it has iOS 6 kernel and will be able to use all the apps made for iOS 6, what part of that do you guys not understand ?
Lumia 900 WILL NOT have the new kernel in WP8 and will be obsolete in a few months since it WILL NOT run apps made exclusively for WP8. Do you see iPhone 4 not being able to run any apps made exclusively for iPhone 4S ? Some features in iOS 6 are not included since any company has the right to reserve the latest and best features for their latest models. Everybody knows that.
Talking with you M$ fanboys is no better than talking to a brick. If you like the way you are treated, then good for you. Keep up supporting your beloved company, nobody is going to interfere. This thread is mainly for the new buyers or for the undecided to see how they have been f*cked by M$.

alodar1 said:
if you want an iPhone, go buy an iPhone. But don't use wp8 as the excuse. Fanboy or no, any argument used to defend your point is wrong. Apple foes the same thing. Android is worse. So if you want an iPhone,go buy one. I hope you end up happy.
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Click to collapse
Wow I am speechless, this kind of ignorance is simply staggering. I was citing how Apple supports their customers, not a propaganda on why people should buy an iPhone.
And FYI, I WILL NOT buy an iPhone because I oppose Apple and their business practice. Instead, I will buy a Galaxy Nexus because I know I will be properly supported. Almost bought a Nokia Lumia 800 but luckily I didn't.
Already sold all my WP7 phones prior to the announcement since I had a bad feeling about it, luckily I did because people are dumping their phones on ebay now and Nokia Lumia 900 has been dropping in its value like crazy. If you don't believe me, check ebay. Have fun with your outdated and obsolete POS Nokia Lumia, folks.

RandomXIII said:
With the release of WP8 and cutoff of supports for the current WP7 lineups, MS just shot themselves in the foot by doing two things:
_ Introduce fragmentation: now developers have to work extra harder to support both the existing WP7.x customers and the new WP8 customer base.
_ Piss off and alienating all the customers that have been with MS through ups and downs: note that this is more important because WP has never been popular, most people will either get an Android or iPhone and only the loyal and diehards get WP7. With this announcement, MS has effectively give all its loyal users the middle finger. For users who haven't abandoned WP despite being shafted by the whole HD2 and WM6.5 fiasco, this will be the LAST STRAW, trust me.
A bit about my phone history, I have had an HD2, a Samsung Focus and a Dell Venue Pro but no more, I will not give M$ another chance. Trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice shame on me. History will repeat itself, MS will once again abandon users of WP8 and WP8.5 when announcing WP9. The only ones who haven't realized this is the die-hard MS fanboys who are keep on coming back to M$ no matter how bad M$ treats them.
Heed my advices, give other platforms a try and use this as a breakup point for this abusive relationship. M$ doesn't deserve your money and your time. Use that money to buy something that will be properly supported and more importantly you will be treated like a valuable customer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your premise already flawed. "Piss off and alienate all MS customers that have been through the UPS and downs"
I for one am neither pissed off nor alienated. I bought the first PPC v1 from MS. I've owned every version of windows mobile...several on fact. I've owned android and iPhones. I am NOT pissed off or alienated. And I count many, make that MANY people on XDA alone that are more like me, than you. I applause MS for drawing a line...so, so...i do not have problems trying to get 'NEXT' to run correctly in my phone. So my 'NEXT' phone can focus on running as well as it can. I also expect WP 9, or whatever to make the same hard choices.
I also know that as long as I keep my 900, it will be supported. It is not obsolete. It will only be obsolete when it stops being able to do what I bought it for. I know it will still be supported, long after I stop using it.
I respect your opinion. I respect your right to feel shafted. I respectfully say, you're wrong. This is still a great phone with a great future.
---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------
RandomXIII said:
Wow I am speechless, this kind of ignorance is simply staggering. I was citing how Apple supports their customers, not a propaganda on why people should buy an iPhone.
And FYI, I WILL NOT buy an iPhone because I oppose Apple and their business practice. Instead, I will buy a Galaxy Nexus because I know I will be properly supported. Almost bought a Nokia Lumia 800 but luckily I didn't.
Already sold all my WP7 phones prior to the announcement since I had a bad feeling about it, luckily I did because people are dumping their phones on ebay now and Nokia Lumia 900 has been dropping in its value like crazy. If you don't believe me, check ebay. Have fun with your outdated and obsolete POS Nokia Lumia, folks.
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man...why couldn't you have become speechless, before you wrong this reply. Leave, please. Buy whatever device you wish. That Samsung is surely the greatest plone in the word...including explosions and plastic case. Its predecessor proved just how great android is. Have fun...enjoy...and please don't reply..my pos lumia doesn't explode, but it might get offended considering the galaxy of information you've presented.

RandomXIII said:
Lumia 900 WILL be obsolete in a few months since it WILL NOT run apps made exclusively for WP8.
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Click to collapse
Whether you agree with the guy or not, that is a very valid point he is making!
We all know how good a smartphone is nowadays without lots of apps. (Symbian, WebOS, etc...)

Why don't we all take a deep breath, relax, and see if the creative geniuses a.k.a xda developers can cook something up when WP8 comes out. Shall we?

AnyMal said:
Why don't we all take a deep breath, relax, and see if the creative geniuses a.k.a xda developers can cook something up when WP8 comes out. Shall we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the way MS has everything closed, I am starting to lose my hope. If it were to rain, we'd start seeing clouds by now

if people keep whining about every os that they have on their phone. Why dont you build your own OS from scratch. Sell it to someone. Let them hear complain about your stuff. DEYMN!!!
Go back to Dumb phone era so you could stop complaining

I'm not happy. I was expecting a WP 8 update. I want to know, however, what features are WP 7 users really not getting in 7.8?
NFC? - Don't have the hardware
higher resolution/dual cores etc - Not an expert but I'm guessing this can't be done
Wallet Hub- Needs NFC anyway I would think.
Better multitasking - This one would be nice to have, but I wouldn't be surprised if they included better multi-tasking for the lumia 900...if not...that sucks
Better Camera app - wouldn't be surprised if we got this...if not...what more funtionality does the camera app really need? Nokia camera just came out with panorama shots...you can get apps with burst shots...what are really lacking?
Believe me, I'm not happy about any of this...the behind our backs marketing of lumia 900 as the non-beta phone etc etc...i think it's a scam....but...what arguement are we actually making? What else do you want to see in the WP 7.8 package? I'm not saying this to say "you're wrong" I'm asking this because I honestly don't know the answer. If the update comes with better multitasking, start screen, and the guarantee that apps will work the same on 7.8 as on wp8...and that none of these features will create lag on the phone...i will be perfectly content...then again I was content when my HTC aria go android 2.2...with no flash player capabilities...I don't think any of these damn companies have gotten their acts together...but I'm pissed Nokia went behind our backs not telling us the truth just to make a couple bucks.

This post talks about a lot of devices besides the Lumia and as a result it is a little long, so I've bolded the key points for speed readers
I went on vacation last week and come back to an uproar about current devices not getting Windows 8 Phone updates (better name ), and honestly I really don't understand the vastness of the unrest. I get the points people make, but the conclusions are way out there for me!
My family is reasonably well equipped technology wise. I have an Alienware m17x, a 1st gen iPad, a Nokia Lumia 900, and a PS3. My wife has a Mac Book Pro 15, an iPad 2, and an iPhone 4s. The kids are on a Gateway desktop with an i7 in the living room. The kids also have iPods, one has a Pantec phone, several DS and LeapFrog devices. Rounding it all out is a smart Logitec universal touch screen remote, a sling box, several access points and a Wii. For the most part, we each pick the device that suits us best and fits in the price range / budget we set.
We also have laying around, an old Mac Book Pro 13, an iPhone 3s, an iPod, an 8 year old Dell XPS desktop, an HTC HD7, a Samsung Focus, a Tilt and a Tilt II, and an old Palm Tungsten C. And of course several candy bar and flip phone cells and various MP3 players, language translators and hand-held game thingies.
There's no way in hell I can have all of these devices on the crest of the technology wave all at once, we just can't afford it (in fact, my wife isn't so thrilled with how well stocked we are now... but there are times she's very happy with it :laugh.
My next major purchase will be a Win8 Tablet. I absolutely need to replace the iPad for work - the thing is a toy. In my quest for the ultimate portable work slate / play device, nothing out there has attracted my attention. Lack of connectivity, poor performance, a craptacular crayon-style writing on the iPad, lack-luster hardware, and the fact that I would also like an 11 to 13-inch screen has kept my money in my pocket. Obviously, I'm holding out until Win8 and the right tablet is there (eying the Yoga Flip closely!).
With the announcement of smart glass at E3, the urge was to jump on the deals and grab an XBox 360. ESPECIALLY since I could hook up all those iOS and possible future 'droid devices too! But, without BluRay support, I'm not going to bother. And with the next tablet purchase coming later this year (fingers crossed the right one is there in the next 6 months...), and with the 720 being rumored for the holidays next year. I'm waiting on switching from PS to XBOX when the 720 comes out, assuming the next-gen PS doesn't keep me in Sony Land.
It should be noted that along with the smart glass upgrade, I'll be looking at my existing Yamaha receiver and possibly upgrading that as well - my 5 year old model is good enough, but there are improvements out there and better ways to hook up the living room 'rack' - so that's also factored into the actual cost.
Which brings me to my jumping on the Lumia the day after it was available: I bought the Lumia knowing the risks of not being Win8 ready. I took the other slant with this upgrade as opposed to my next game machine and PC/Slate/Untrabook. I was contract-ready with AT&T, the price was right (and a few days later it was $0 - but they had me at $99), it had just enough improvements over my HD7 to entice me, and I didn't see me waiting until Q4 2012 or even Q1 or 2 2013 to get the phone upgraded.
Maybe it's within the context of all of the technology purchases I've got going on in my life that the Lumia 900 is just right for me. It is, by far, hands down, the BEST phone I've ever had. Excellent battery life, excellent responsiveness, great connectivity, and much to my amazement: the BEST reception and call clarity I've ever experienced on a smart phone. (I'm the only one in our downtown MPLS building who can send and receive calls anywhere on the campus, and never loose my 4G data connection).
I've been shocked at the excellent support from Nokia app-wise, and firmware-wise, and am very happy for the WP community to benefit from further integration of Nokia apps for non-Nokia phones. This phone, which I use first and foremost as a mobile phone (this part just HAS to be rock-solid for me), for all my e-mail all day long, for my browsing, gaming / entertainment, news and feed reading, and music play back is perfect for me as-is. The WP 7.8 update is just extras I didn't even expect.
No regrets. None. Nil. Not even close. I've purchased too many phones, computers, tablets, and other odd-n-ends to expect today's buy to still be tomorrow's top device. It NEVER works that way. 1 month later, the next device is just around the corner. 2 months later, another OS has better devices and features. 6 months later (or less) a new device is on my network for WP with new features I can't get on my current device. I had no reason to expect this to be my last phone purchase :silly:
Bigger screen support, NFC, multi-core... duh. I mean DUH if you thought this device would stand up to next-gen hardware. If you have a Nokia 900 and are upset it isn't the model being released in 6 months then you've got a significant learning curve ahead of you for all the other things in your life that you'll be buying. No way around it - it doesn't feel good, but it's an obvious truth. To expect otherwise is to believe in a spaghetti monster living on the other side of the moon. Sorry, but it's true.
When I do upgrade my phone, it'll be Nokia and it'll be W8P (still a better name, even at the end of this post :angel and it'll be cutting edge when it's that device's turn to get the latest and greatest.
Sorry for the length of my post, but the negativity around here is just plain silly and not worth the effort (for those experiencing it, and those of us who have to sift through it to get to actual facts).
Edit: I should have added that I am VERY happy with the updates I will get for my existing hardware, and also that I'm VERY happy that W8P will not support existing hardware. My reasons are that the hardware is improving at an extraordinary rate, and when I do get my next device I'll have one that has an OS that isn't bogged down with backwards compatibility issues - something that plagued windows for so many years until the hardware leveled out.

So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.

jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
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Click to collapse
Actually, only the un-happy are noisy. Most people I actually know and talk too either couldn't care less, or are perfectly fine with it. Nokia will be fine. MS will be fine. WP8, Win8, and XBox will be just fine. There are ALWAYS people who scream dooms-day, but it never comes. Everything is always just fine

jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally wrong uninformed.....

I also am happy with my lumia 900 and also it was a decision I made whether to wait for WP8 or not.. ( I was actually waiting for the Lumia 900 as it had a front facing camera against the lumia 800).
There is always new tech coming out every 3 months a so and you either wait or get what is on offer that suits your need.
Regarding the WP8 update I am not so much bothered ( only regret is the nokia pureview camera 808).
I come from a Samsung galaxy S2 and the for me the SGS2 has been the best android device by far and the SGS3 didn't appeal to me at all, besides people were always complaing How most apps were not optimised to use the DUAL CORE of the SGS2.
Similiar things will happen when WP8 comes around there will be fewer apps and most current DEVS will keep developing for WP7 as they have just about got hang of it. So it will be atleast another year or so when we see Quality apps both for WP8 and Windows 8 which is just starting out as well, by which time I will be ready to purchace my Second Gen WP8 Just like my Second Gen lumia 900.
NFC is also not very popular in the UK at present and probably you will get NFC through sim cards or as stickers.
Till Next year my Lumia 900 rocks.. and then I will have decided about my next phone

sakenfenc said:
Totally wrong uninformed.....
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Click to collapse
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....

jr97ai said:
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...

sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Click to collapse
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP, go figure. You don't have to tell people to go buy an iPhone. In fact, MS WANTS people to state "go buy a WP." Will anyone say this? Hell no, not even you.
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back. I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer. Feature wise? No, too obvious. Fluidity? No because phones nowadays are supercharged, 2-3 seconds faster doesn't mean crap to fill up the gap of features. Update path? complete BS.
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.

Why are ppl so much bothered about updates?
I bought my Lumia 900 simply because it looks awsome and is more reliable than any other smarthphone i have used. Surely it has bad points too but i dont give a damn.
I use my Lumia 900 to its last breath everyday, i am heave tweeter, emailing surfig gaming, calling etc. WP7 is perfect as it is, it only needs some minor touches.
Same goes for Android and IOS (in their childhood days, these OSes were not complete either, Infact IOS is still struggling with main features.
I was too keen on recieveing updates on my older phones but each time i updated problems started to come along. As soon as my Xperia X10 got updated to 2.3 i sold it after a week. My galaxy s2 when got updated to ICS i sold it after 3 days due to amount of FC and other lags. My Iphone 3gs i sold it after one week when got updated to IOS 4
Pls guys grow up.

yaiba60 said:
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP
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Got some facts or figures to back that up?
yaiba60 said:
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back.
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Key word: Few. Well, 2 key words then: noisy.
I've seen this happen so many times before: Video games, TV shows, politics, religion... none of it ever comes true. A few leave in a huff, noisily disgruntled, and the rest continue on without any problems.
There's no dooms day, there's no market share problem, there's no negative impact what so ever with sales. Drag my post up in 6 months and prove me wrong about that, but I sincerely doubt that it will end up any other way.
yaiba60 said:
I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer.
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This is the only truth you've stated. It's your choice, always has been, always will be. And there's nothing wrong with your position, as it fits you at this time.
yaiba60 said:
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
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Don't really feel like a sheep - heck, I posted the opposite of the current flavor of the week as far as opinions. And what I stated was my choice, always has been, always will be.

sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Wy dont you at least post something pertinant to the conversation? The forums are made for discussion and thats what we are doing. I respect peoples opinions here if they agree or disagree with me but yours are plain useless.
I dont have to go and buy another phone because I have issues with what is happening. I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
I didnt have another 400 plus dollars to drop on a wp 7 device so I took an android device from my provider. I liked it alot and it received both a Gingerbread update and ICS. But I wanted a Windows phone so I bought the Samsung Focus which I just replaced it with the Lumia.
What frustrates me is that people are putting words in our mouths here. I dont hear anyone who complained saying they hate the Lumia or that they expect to get an update with features that apply to hardware that doesnt exist.
They just want an upgrade path such as the one Microsoft is providing to those who buy a pc before Windows 8 is released.
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
In summary I will post my opinion and if you dont like it go read some static website with no discussion or coments.

What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:

yaiba60 said:
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
Click to expand...
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*shrug* you posted on my thread - where I stated what I've done and where I'm at and what I plan to do, by complaining and taking things I said out of context and changing the meaning (i.e. noisy people), then attribute my post to being some kind of MS hype.
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
I'm sorry for your sense of loss, I sincerly hope you find peace (this is not sarcastic, I mean it - it's only a phone after all ).

I believe you are missing a few points here:
jr97ai said:
I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
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Would you really have preferred that the 6.5 device were upgraded to WP7? That would have held WP7 back on specs/features, with the exception of a few phones (HD2).
jr97ai said:
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
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Again, don't think for a moment that the Lumia 900 is out of the game. There are SO MANY of them out there now, that they will become the next HD2. DEVs are going to bring WP8 to the Lumia, mark my words. The device is too nice not to go there.
As for Microsoft not bringing it, I could care less. My Lumia is the best phone I've owned since I've been using wireless. And my first Mobile phone was a Motorola Bag Phone. Yes, the heavy shoulder strap phone that lasted about 3 hours and cost $200-$1500 per month to use. I've owned MANY phones over these years, and again, the Lumia 900 beats them ALL, hands down. If it was never upgraded to WP8, that's just fine! They did NOT say they were going to stop supporting it, they just said they were not going to port WP8 to it. There's a Big difference. You will still get updates, you will still get leading edge software, you will still get firmware updates. I don't see the problem.
When does a company decide when to stop supporting Full OS upgrades? It's a tough decision I'm sure, but it has to be made. If they offered OS upgrades forever, they would never make enough money to continue to develop. I don't want to see that happening.
My next phone will also be a Nokia. They are going to support WP better than any other OS, because they HAVE to in order to survive. They've already shown their support in a big way, and they've shown how they are going to continue to do so. Maybe it will not be WP8, but it will be the next best thing. A new Start Screen that most everyone has been anxious to get, and a host of other updates are to come. Just because they have not spelled it all out, does not mean it's not happening. They said all the NON-HARDWARE features would be brought to the Lumia. That could include All Sorts of Fantastic things. Some have already arrived (Camera Extras, Play-To), and I'm sure they will bring a lot more.
Before WP7, I also wanted the latest ROM or OS on my Windows Mobile phones, and to some extent, still do. I even ported and cooked ROMs to get there. But since using WP, I am not quite as anxious, because it really works quite well. That's mostly what I was trying to get out of Windows Mobile. Stable, Fast, Fun. WP Already has that!
My opinion, give Winkia/Nokidows a little time to prove where they are going to take us. Honestly, by the time WP8 comes around, I'll be itching for a new device anyways, so my Lumia 900 will replace my Focus as my Test Bed/Dev device...

Nobody talks about doomsday and whatnot, at least I never stated them. You got delusions about doomsday or is it haunting you
WP is small fry, idc about facts for this. If you love it, go research to back it up, don't tell me this and that. If you were successful, maybe MS would want you in its WP marketing team and pay you nicely. I never told you to agree with me. My style is "take it or leave it." My writing is not to convince, but to explain. I don't assume you this and that (heck I never even made a statement how you felt about your phone). However, it looks like you do assume a lot of thing about me. Why do you care? :laugh:
P/S: all my three Lumia 900 have been craigslisted successfully, I feel relieved
eknutson said:
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I too am very happy with my Lumia 900. Coming from a Samsung Captivate, I can't complain. The difference is just night and day. It didn't bother me knowing the phone's inability for a WP8 update. When those devices come out, buy'em. Problem solved. When WP9 devices come out, buy'em! Problem solved..and so on.
The world is fortunate to have a vast variety of technological options. Options which never ceases to evolve. No need to whine when your brand new toy becomes obsolete tomorrow. Technology is about evolution.
Like what eknutson said, it's just a phone after all.

guys this thread is about some one likes the Lumia 900 and I love my Lumia 900 tooo.... so keep it to it...
all the people are talking about is that wp 7.8 will not be as good as the WP8..... come on no one knows what will be in WP7.8 and WP8???? this is stupidity to argue about things MS do not want to tell people right now...
and second of all MS and Nokia are not stupid that they will screw up users...
last but not least if your phone do not have NFC and high res screen then MS do not think the OS should be WP8, i am fine with it...
and if i dont get the WP8 or WP7.8 my phone still works graet i am very happy...

Microsoft officially announced what will be in 7.8: new home screen, 100,000 apps and counting, and Nokia Lumia exclusive apps.

I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request

Dark_Ansem said:
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
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Click to collapse
Using "max luminosity", your battery will die much quicker. You will probably want to experiment with different settings to get a good look, and battery life. I used Automatic, and was happy most of the time.
Also, you can actually cut your SIM card using a knife or scissors to make it fit your phone. I've done it a few times. At least until you can get to the store and get a new one. Just look at photos on the internet to get an idea where to cut it, Pretty close, and it will work. Also, make sure it fits the sim tray well, so it does not hang up on the sim slot.

Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.

fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
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Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.

OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
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I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.

Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Click to collapse
Count me in!

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.

equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.

jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
Click to expand...
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This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Lool.

Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]

I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!

I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..

mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.

Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:

@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?

Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.

Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
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