Develop Bugs

Pro2 and Universal photo comparison

-not the best of photos, but you'll get the drift. If anyone wants better ones, just let me know

Nice . Not that the phones look like eachother, but still funny to see. People who have the universal rate it high.
What grades would u give to both phones concerning the useablitiy?
Just from looking at it, I would prefer the TP2 for typing and watching movies.
Strange thing btw, everyone says the screen is briliant and you can see everything, even in the sun. but on photo's it realy glares a lot.

quarintus said:
Strange thing btw, everyone says the screen is briliant and you can see everything, even in the sun. but on photo's it realy glares a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's because the screen dims after a few secs if you don't touch it. To save battery life.
Yeah it's cool to look at both machines but the second pic is a bit too blurred to see. Sorry...

Tomo said:
-not the best of photos, but you'll get the drift. If anyone wants better ones, just let me know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m happy to find this thread!
As an proud Universal owner as primary buisness oriented device I have been waiting patiently to find the perfect replacement for my Uni, but 4 years later nothing worth to look.
TP2 is a good candidate as it has better specs in almost all, but still missing the form factor swiveling screen as Uni is really more like a micro lap top with phone than a phone with nice stuff like TP2.
I´m still no sure that TP2 can really be Uni succesor but at least is a posibility
I´ll wait till the ends of 09 to see what new models comming from HTC or Toshiba and then I´ll make my desicion on what device to buy to replace my Uni (If replaceble)
Cheers,
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1751&id2=313

orb3000 said:
I´m happy to find this thread!
As an proud Universal owner as primary buisness oriented device I have been waiting patiently to find the perfect replacement for my Uni, but 4 years later nothing worth to look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From all the threads I read that you have posted, you really do love your little Universal. He he he... Not saying it's a bad thing. I respect people like you, people that knows exactly what they want and won't jump and just buy anything that is new.
It really does take a lot of patients. You will make a good equity trader! Waiting for 4 years is a long time mate! Perseverance of finding the perfect handset is hard to hold.
Me, I am waiting to buy my first full QWERTY handset, the TP2. I hope the wait is worth it. Waiting for 4 months is already very hard, don't know how I can wait for 4 years. My hands will be so itchy, there will be no hands left.

For me, the Universal was my dream phone, but the form factor made it utterly impractical for day-to-day use for me.
Now that I have a TP2, I can finally enjoy a universal-class phone in a form factor that is practical.
The keyboard is SO much better than any other HTC device I have used before. Certainly it wipes the floor with the Kaiser keypad. I feel it is more responsive than the Universals.
The screen is just plain tasty, and touchflo has been massively improved.
I am pleased!

dazultra2000 said:
For me, the Universal was my dream phone, but the form factor made it utterly impractical for day-to-day use for me.
Now that I have a TP2, I can finally enjoy a universal-class phone in a form factor that is practical.
The keyboard is SO much better than any other HTC device I have used before. Certainly it wipes the floor with the Kaiser keypad. I feel it is more responsive than the Universals.
The screen is just plain tasty, and touchflo has been massively improved.
I am pleased!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I-hate-you....NOT.
I'm on Sprint (CDMA) and can't wait to get my hands on this provided the rumors about a mid-June launch are true. Was going to get a Palm Pre but will be forced to change my plan to almost double, so TP2 it is.
How is the battery life, ear piece quality and does it get hot? I had the original Touch Pro for a month and took it back because battery life was horrid and it would heat up in the middle of the keyboard area bad after a few mins on Opera. Thanks.

Battery life so far is on par with my TyTNII. It's not great, but it's not terrible!
It hasn't got hot for me yet, but I've not really been pushing it.
Not made enough calls to comment on the quality of the earpiece yet, but the speaker is louder than my TyTNII (though sounds a bit more "echoey")
Main concern at the moment is there is no lens cover on the back shell as with most other phones. It's just a hole that leads through to the main camera sensor lens...hoping I don't scratch it!
Oooh and the ambient light sensor and g-sensor are cool!

dazultra2000 said:
For me, the Universal was my dream phone, but the form factor made it utterly impractical for day-to-day use for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly the same for me, in 2005 when I bought the Wizard, my dream was the Universal. I bought it last year and keeped it only 6 month (unpractical).
dazultra2000 said:
Battery life so far is on par with my TyTNII. It's not great, but it's not terrible!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True with the htc roms. False with the last radio. With last radio the battery life is excellent and with the last M2D and WM6.5 it terrible!!!
If the Pro 2 is something between TyTn2 and Universal, it's perfect for me. If the bluetooth stack works fine with my S705, doesn't matter for the FM radio (it's integrated in my S705).
I wanted it in Orange offer.

orb3000 said:
As an proud Universal owner as primary buisness oriented device I have been waiting patiently to find the perfect replacement for my Uni, but 4 years later nothing worth to look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I once had a Uni, 'upgraded' to the TYTNII and am now waiting to see if my carrier will have the TP2. Whilst the newer phones out perform the Uni (for me!) I still wish that I could get something with the guts of a TYTNII in the casing of a Uni. That was a brilliant device.

Snapped some of my own pics for you guys to ponder over.

dazultra2000 said:
Snapped some of my own pics for you guys to ponder over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for pictures. Nice one!

Great comparison pictures!
Thanks a lot!
Besides the size and RAM I´m still choosing Universal!

orb3000 said:
Great comparison pictures!
Thanks a lot!
Besides the size and RAM I´m still choosing Universal!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a fellow Universal afficionado, I share your view of how great a device it is, but apart from the RAM and size there's the GPS, higher connection speeds, screen & camera capability. These things might not be important to everyone, but made me make the change (still have the Universal though)

My Universal is long gone, Touch Pro 2 is the new King!

Tomo said:
As a fellow Universal afficionado, I share your view of how great a device it is, but apart from the RAM and size there's the GPS, higher connection speeds, screen & camera capability. These things might not be important to everyone, but made me make the change (still have the Universal though)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 for the Uni lovers.
I still haven't found a replacement for my Uni.
It is still by far the most practical business PDA / UMPC on the market.
I am waiting for a TP2 to arrive, and have been highly disappointed with the Raphael. (my fault for jumping in and buying one without doing my research first) I could never get used to the tiny 2.8 screen or the little keyboard.
My Uni still makes me smile every time I use it, it has never let me down (and I've had it since they were first released) robust, decent keyboard (with tilt and flip, so no issues of not being able to see the screen whilst typing comfortably) The only let down for my poor Uni is lack of GPS, with the 128mb ram upgrade I managed to make her last a bit longer as a primary device, but eventually had to get an "All-In-One " device that was more practical for everyday use.
I hope the Rhodium lives up to the reviews and has better reception amongst other things over the TP.
LONG LIVE THE UNI
I'll post some pics of my devices for peoples enjoyment (Still have a fully functional Wallaby at home too)
Cheers,
Beasty

Here's another post from a Universal fanboy
I've been using the Universal exclusively for almost 4 years now. Except for a big mistake I made when I ordered a Glofiish M800 and used that for a couple of days, got rid of that one real quick, and since I exchanged it for a Qtek 9000 I made that wrong right again. So I now own an MDA Pro a Qtek 9000 and... since 2 days, a Touch Pro 2.
I have to start out with saying that I personally always carried the Universal with me in my pocket. I Never had an issue with it's size. And as for the real reason I got a new device? Well you know, I want to see myself as a sort-of early adapter and since that Universal was way ahead of it's time, and I pre-orderd that device in spring 2005, I just wanted something new to play with. Why it took so long for anyone to release a device that even came close to the Universal is beyond me.
Personally I never really used a lot of local applications on the Uni. Except for the phone, sms and calender functions and navigation software the thing I used the most by far was remote desktop. The size of the screen, the resolution the AWESOME keyboard and the UMTS and Wifi connections really let me use my workstation and server to their full potential, ANYWHERE in the world.
While I did flash the device with new versions of Windows Mobile that I found on this forum I never really owned a device with TouchFlo on it. Obviously I did play around with TouchFlo on devices that friends and colleagues owned.
After having used the device for about a day these are the things I noticed when I compare it to our beloved Uni's:
TP2 Pro's:
-Size: Like I said, the size never bothered me, but as I was used to the Universal the Touch Pro2 is TINY
-Resolution: 800x480 beats 640x480, especially when using Remote Desktop.
-HSDPA
-Internal GPS
-Conference call option in TouchFlo (which someone on this forum has probably hacked into the Uni already as well)
-Just having something new already
-Audio call quality is higher
-Keyboard is almost as good as the Uni's
TP2 Cons:
-While I never used it, I just don't get why there's no mini-jack connection
-No flash: While I used the flash on the Universal as a flash light most of the time and not as a flash for the camera I just don't get why they couldn't at least put a LED light on the device.
-No TAB-key on the keyboard. I really miss this when filling in forms online.
-The slide-and-tilt formfactor is ok, but not as good as what the Uni does. When the screen on the TP2 is fully tilted It's difficult to press the number keys (top row). Also when I carried the Uni in my pocket the screen was always well protected. I guess it takes some getting used to as well.
-Keyboard is ALMOST as good as the Uni's

Johny58 said:
Here's another post from a Universal fanboy
I've been using the Universal exclusively for almost 4 years now. Except for a big mistake I made when I ordered a Glofiish M800 and used that for a couple of days, got rid of that one real quick, and since I exchanged it for a Qtek 9000 I made that wrong right again. So I now own an MDA Pro a Qtek 9000 and... since 2 days, a Touch Pro 2.
I have to start out with saying that I personally always carried the Universal with me in my pocket. I Never had an issue with it's size. And as for the real reason I got a new device? Well you know, I want to see myself as a sort-of early adapter and since that Universal was way ahead of it's time, and I pre-orderd that device in spring 2005, I just wanted something new to play with. Why it took so long for anyone to release a device that even came close to the Universal is beyond me.
Personally I never really used a lot of local applications on the Uni. Except for the phone, sms and calender functions and navigation software the thing I used the most by far was remote desktop. The size of the screen, the resolution the AWESOME keyboard and the UMTS and Wifi connections really let me use my workstation and server to their full potential, ANYWHERE in the world.
While I did flash the device with new versions of Windows Mobile that I found on this forum I never really owned a device with TouchFlo on it. Obviously I did play around with TouchFlo on devices that friends and colleagues owned.
After having used the device for about a day these are the things I noticed when I compare it to our beloved Uni's:
TP2 Pro's:
-Size: Like I said, the size never bothered me, but as I was used to the Universal the Touch Pro2 is TINY
-Resolution: 800x480 beats 640x480, especially when using Remote Desktop.
-HSDPA
-Internal GPS
-Conference call option in TouchFlo (which someone on this forum has probably hacked into the Uni already as well)
-Just having something new already
-Audio call quality is higher
-Keyboard is almost as good as the Uni's
TP2 Cons:
-While I never used it, I just don't get why there's no mini-jack connection
-No flash: While I used the flash on the Universal as a flash light most of the time and not as a flash for the camera I just don't get why they couldn't at least put a LED light on the device.
-No TAB-key on the keyboard. I really miss this when filling in forms online.
-The slide-and-tilt formfactor is ok, but not as good as what the Uni does. When the screen on the TP2 is fully tilted It's difficult to press the number keys (top row). Also when I carried the Uni in my pocket the screen was always well protected. I guess it takes some getting used to as well.
-Keyboard is ALMOST as good as the Uni's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great comparative with pics that give an idea of sizes comparison!
Thanks a lot for this!
Every new year comes I think if HTC would do again something on the form factor of Universal: A micro lap top with phone functions!! but nothing...

Can't Decide: HTC HD vs HTC Diamond 2 vs HTC Pro 2 vs HTC Hero?? stunno?

I cannot for the life of me decide which HTC phone to buy, previously I've had the following:
O2 XDA - Decent at the time
Blackjack II (Samsung) - decent phone
HTC TyTN II - Awesome business platform but too bulky
Nokia E71 - Best of the lot but hated Symbian OS (missed Win Mobile)
I want to buy one of the new HTC phones but I cannot for the life of me decide which one, it needs to last me a good 18 months and something I'll settle with and enjoy everyday I use it, stuff I'll be doing with it:
1. Emails - Googlemail, Microsoft Exchange, Hotmail
2. SMS - Will really need an unlimited SMS contract
3. MMS
4. Decent Facebook/Twitter/LinkedIn integration
5. Opera browser
6. Windows Mobile 6.5 (looks great)
7. Live messenger
8. Movies
9. MP3/Music
10. PDF's/Docs/Powerpoint (view only, not much editing)
11. Remote Desktop/Putty in worst case scenario
12. Shared internet
Ok what do you guys think?
Stunno I know you asked in another thread about the TP2, what do you think about it honestly now the novelty has worn off (if it has!)?
I cant imagine the Diamond 2 being up to the task of loads of typing, but I really like the look of it, but the more I look at what I need the TP2 ticks every single one of those boxes.
At the same time I'm loving the look of the HTC Hero (android) and would wait for that if it could also tick the above!
Damn this is hard to choose.
Also what the best place to get this phone in the UK? I was thinking MPD, is it worth phoning Vodafone after I have bought one to try to improve the contract? (I think some of you guys have done it)
But ultimately which damn phone should I buy! lol cheers
Gonna get one ordered tonight hopefully if I can decide.

Doubt you'll get any bad feedback in here about the Rhodium.
As far as I can tell everyone is extremely happy with theirs so far (par the odd faulty unit owners )
By far the best HTC Device I've ever owned (Par my Uni but it's a very close call)
Read through Shingers thread (if you haven't allready), it really is a stunningly impressive work of art, the hardware and OS integration is a first for HTC, the stock Rom is amazing, the screen is bright, vibrant and crystal clear, the keyboard has nicely spaced well sized keys (although not as good as Unis) and the tilt function feels much more solid than the Kaiser.
Forget the Topaz, the Rhodium blows it away
Cheers,
Beasty

I cannot make your decisions for you but my thoughts so far are:
Looking back over my Winmo phones, the one that I remember most fondly is the Wizard (Tmobile Vario). I loved that phone! Don't know why, it was big heavy and slow, but it didn't seem to matter at the time (I was gutted when I dropped it on a concrete floor and shattered the screen)
The TP2 is better in every way than the Wizard, and is the best Winmo phone that I have used, although it isn't perfect yet. I have a Vodafone branded phone and have had a few niggles due to the branding, or rather due to the removal of the branding. Oh and I have other niggle, my email always shows a new email even when there isn't one!
My only criticism would be that it is BIG! Which may be just because I have upgraded from a Diamond, which was tiny. If they could get the screen, keyboard and battery life in the Diamond's form factor I would sell one of my kids for it! (Actually I wouldn't. It would take two of them to get the phone )
I have only tried a few of the applications/uses that you have listed
1. Email, Exchange, Gmail work perfectly
8. Divx TV episodes work fine with Coreplayer
9. Only used the TF3D player and have had no problems at all (I don't mind the stock headphones, I must have funny shaped ears)
I've had a play on the G1 and am not a fan of the OS, yet, it seems thrown together somehow. But then again I'm not a great fan of Linux either for similar reasons
I think my Voda contract worked out cheaper than MPD (although I have the dreaded branding)
My advice?
Go to a Vodafone shop and try one! If you can live with the size then this seems to be the best phone out there at the moment

Really interesting question....
I would add, if you are LUCKY enough to find a shop that has a TP2. I went looking today, and
a) VF Business Centre: No demos, only to order.
b)Orange: No Stock yet although not discrimination tween business and personal customer.
c) T-Mobile - Nothing yet; End of July.
I am also looking for a professional device with very similar reqs to yours. I was looking at the Tytyn11, but took too long over it and so the TP2 seems a logical choice. However it is VERY NEW and it still has s/w compatibility issues like LogMeIn support etc. I have heard some of the issues are related to the high res screen. However, having talked to a number of people the TP2 does seem to be a de facto business device so I am thinking that if I am going to commit to a 24 month contract then I am better off doing it with something like the TP2 which I can grow into as the problems get solved rather than get something that will be obsolete asap.
I have also looked at MPD and fine and dandy if you want a unbranded phone, but the deal is not as good as VF's IMO especially when quidco included. Also I question whether I would get a replacement mobile as quickly from HTC as VF. Perhaps I would ......
And finally the keyboard.... If you need this then that rules out a lot of options. I do.
Just thoughts, and best of luck matey...
Back to my glass of wine in the courtyard enjoying the warm sun go down !!!
Sam

Thanks all
Stunno, appreciate you replying to my questions.
I'm still undecided, I would love to buy the TP2 and get it tomorrow but I'm still not sure, the keyboard is a big deal - I think I'd definately use it heavily, I did with my old TyTN 2.
Yesterday I went to two different Voda shops (business) and none had it in stock, one girl didnt even know what it was (lol).
Right now I'm down to these:
1. iPhone 3GS - bit of a gimmick though and too expensive, but I got to try it and although the functionality looks quite thin (I had an Ipod Touch so the interface novelty wore off) its a nice phone, dont think it will suit my needs.
2. HTC Hero - I like android and what its trying to achieve, I also love Linux (my job) but I do NOT like the way the device is shaped - nightmare in the pocket.
3. HTC Diamond 2 - The more I look at the reviews the more this phone is top of my list, BUT the only issue is the touch keypad, I just think it wont be good enough, I dont know.
4. Samsung Omnia HD - Amazing phone, but not a big fan of Symbian, was almost tempted to buy this until I read about the codec issues with the sound recording and Samsung stance on fixing it.
5. Samsung Omnia Pro - ????
Decisions decisions, so many damn phones!
Final question, did anybody here order from MPD on a Friday (contract) and get the phone saturday???

SuperAdvan said:
Thanks all
Stunno, appreciate you replying to my questions.
I'm still undecided, I would love to buy the TP2 and get it tomorrow but I'm still not sure, the keyboard is a big deal - I think I'd definately use it heavily, I did with my old TyTN 2.
Yesterday I went to two different Voda shops (business) and none had it in stock, one girl didnt even know what it was (lol).
Right now I'm down to these:
1. iPhone 3GS - bit of a gimmick though and too expensive, but I got to try it and although the functionality looks quite thin (I had an Ipod Touch so the interface novelty wore off) its a nice phone, dont think it will suit my needs.
2. HTC Hero - I like android and what its trying to achieve, I also love Linux (my job) but I do NOT like the way the device is shaped - nightmare in the pocket.
3. HTC Diamond 2 - The more I look at the reviews the more this phone is top of my list, BUT the only issue is the touch keypad, I just think it wont be good enough, I dont know.
4. Samsung Omnia HD - Amazing phone, but not a big fan of Symbian, was almost tempted to buy this until I read about the codec issues with the sound recording and Samsung stance on fixing it.
5. Samsung Omnia Pro - ????
Decisions decisions, so many damn phones!
Final question, did anybody here order from MPD on a Friday (contract) and get the phone saturday???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to add to the mix - Omnia 2 has started to get some coverage...

Yeah I noticed that too mate, the Omnia Pro?
Coming July, but still, there are many many bugs with the HD version (it maybe Symbian based but...) which puts me off.
I think I am going for the TP2, though my brain is telling me to wait a month or two.

without being device specific what I see is the need for you to do a lot of typing so i would recommend something with a great keyboard. Rhodium certainly has that

SamJolly said:
a) VF Business Centre: No demos, only to order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To order, yes, but if you call up their upgrade line and be doubtful at them, they'll tell you that if you're not happy with it you can send it back within 7 days with no quibbles... That might only be relevant to current customers mind, and distance selling regs don't apply if you go to a store. I called them up just over a week ago since I was out of contract and had one delivered the next day. A friend got the HTC Magic on the same deal the same day, and another friend has an iPhone so we were able to compare the three phones over a number of days of real use. I kept the TP2... It works well enough, there are a couple of very minor niggles, but most of those are to do with Windows Mobile (and being new to it so expecting things to work in a slightly different way) rather than the phone itself.
Steve.

SuperAdvan said:
Thanks all
Stunno, appreciate you replying to my questions.
I'm still undecided, I would love to buy the TP2 and get it tomorrow but I'm still not sure, the keyboard is a big deal - I think I'd definately use it heavily, I did with my old TyTN 2.
Yesterday I went to two different Voda shops (business) and none had it in stock, one girl didnt even know what it was (lol).
Right now I'm down to these:
1. iPhone 3GS - bit of a gimmick though and too expensive, but I got to try it and although the functionality looks quite thin (I had an Ipod Touch so the interface novelty wore off) its a nice phone, dont think it will suit my needs.
2. HTC Hero - I like android and what its trying to achieve, I also love Linux (my job) but I do NOT like the way the device is shaped - nightmare in the pocket.
3. HTC Diamond 2 - The more I look at the reviews the more this phone is top of my list, BUT the only issue is the touch keypad, I just think it wont be good enough, I dont know.
4. Samsung Omnia HD - Amazing phone, but not a big fan of Symbian, was almost tempted to buy this until I read about the codec issues with the sound recording and Samsung stance on fixing it.
5. Samsung Omnia Pro - ????
Decisions decisions, so many damn phones!
Final question, did anybody here order from MPD on a Friday (contract) and get the phone saturday???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't mention the N97 for some reason. When I was deciding on my upgrade I ended up with a straight choice between the TP2 and the N97 as I had decided that a keyboard was a must.
The TP2 won out because of several points WM being the most obvious (I've had loads of WM phones and am used to it) and Tomtom being the clincher ( I have a shockingly bad sense of direction which, incidentally, has been made much worse by Tomtom but at least I don't get lost now)
If it is down to TP2 v TD2 then it is simply a choice between keyboard v size
There are loads of shops with the TD2 in stock. Give it a go
EDIT: Vodafone gave me 7 days to return the phone if I didn't like it. IIRC Order by 2pm for delivery next day

I just received my TP2 yesterday. I brought it from MPD on payg voda which was £453 - it comes unlocked and unbranded so I chucked my o2 sim right in.
I as well as many others had a tough choise to make - I research everything to death before I buy them, and I have to say on most occasions when I do commit and buy, its a disappointment.
However now using the TP2 it has exceeded all my expectations from all reviews I read and video's I watched (probably 100+).
The stock rom is fantastic, very fluid, very productive and hides nearly all the standard windows mobile interface (only having to see it when using explorer).
I don't expect I can change your mind by this post, but what I will say is that once you actually have it in your hand you will understand why everyone here rants on about it. I compared it to my friends HD last night and the rom beats the HD rom in terms of speed and features, and the quality of the product itself is astounding.
Couple this with the future release of WM6.5, flash 10 for WM in Oct (beta), and HTC Sense release - you have a phone that should last you 18 months - after all, I don't think we will see WM7 on phones till the end of next year, so then is when you can upgrade again.
I haven't tried the TD2 or Samsung HD i900 (or whatever they called it now), but picking between this and the TD2 comes down whether you need a keyboard, or if you like things as small and compact as possible.
Let us know how you get on - keep trying to find a place to try it out

Sounds good - I am very tempted to just pay out for the SIM free as you did since most of the contracts on there incurr extra charge for daily surfing, my existing T-Mobile contract is up for renewal and does NOT incurr extra surfing charges, its also only £22!
I am tempted to renew it and see if I can get a better deal on unlimited texts and buy the phone SIM free from MPD or Expansys.

Definately the Rhodium... or wait for the Omnia Pro

SuperAdvan said:
Sounds good - I am very tempted to just pay out for the SIM free as you did since most of the contracts on there incurr extra charge for daily surfing, my existing T-Mobile contract is up for renewal and does NOT incurr extra surfing charges, its also only £22!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
£450 or so for an unlocked handset equates to a lot of surfing!
My phone was free on 30/month (ex VAT), including 500Mb data which should be enough for my needs
Only downside is a 24 month contract
Steve.

i think htc hd is the best choice for know it has thin body 3.5 mm audio jack good battery bigger screen than all

HTC Touch Pro 2 = Fail?

I think so and I will tell you why. I have been following this phone since it was announced long ago. I to have been a proud HTC device owner but these days I am not so proud anymore.
I am a Windows Mobile fan. Currently I am using my old trusty or not so trusty these days HTC Kaiser/TYTN2. I became a big fan of the tilt feature. I am a tmobile user so back when the Kaiser was released not having 3g bands was not an issue because tmobile did not have 3g. I bought the Euro version and paid top dollar.
Since then its been hacked and modded to reduce glitches and increase speed but lets face it. The keyboard is worn and almost all keys require a super hard press due to wear and tear. Also the screen is tiny by todays standards. I didnt buy the Euro version of the TP2 because I live in the US and 3g is now an issue. So I waited for the tmobile release now confirmed for aug 12th. Right around the corner!
Those of you who didn't wait seem to be reporting endless bugs and glitches not to mention hardware problems. It is driving me nuts to the point that I am shying away from the TP2 hype. I have been following all the TP2 threads here and its bads news after bad news. Very different from when you all 1st got it.
Please someone speak some positive stuff otherwise I may end up holding onto my Kaiser for another year. Final rant.....the specs could be better. Damn Iphoney has an 800mhz processor and HTC just holds back!

I absolutely love it. I have not one problem with it, except for the battery door. I had to modify it a little but know its fine. Out of the 4 HTC phones I have owned, I think this is the best by far. Good luck with your findings.

Although I won't argue with you, the touch pro2 is a great phone for what it's intended for which is business users. It is lacking a bit hardware wise for multimedia and gaming, since it pretty much has the same processor and memory as its predecessor. It is for this reason that I am still trying to decide between the TP2 and samsung omnia II since it has the faster processor and beautiful AMOLED screen. So if you are shying away from the TP2 I would recommend the omnia II or the omnia pro (has hardware keyboard). Even though it annoyingly lacks a built in stylus (but thats just me).

The Great Malaki said:
The keyboard is worn and almost all keys require a super hard press due to wear and tear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its probably not wear and tear. Its the same thing that happens with TV remotes. Over time, the oils from your fingers seep through the buttons and interfere with the contacts. If you were to take the keyboard appart and wipe down the contacts, no garauntee, but I bet it would work like new.

i think most of the problems people have (including myself) on their TP2 is 3rd party softwares imcompatable to the new UI on TP2. hope HTC will offer an update for TP2 sooner than September.
if you turn away from it for Samsung OmniaHD, make sure buy it from a local Samsung stores or from your mobile operator. i've been in a deep problem trying to get my Omnia i900 fixed. i bought my i900 from an idiot ebay seller named Cutrategoods70. when my i900 bricked from a firmware update, i tried to contact that idiot, never get a reply. i emailed SS service center in UK (coz SS US & Canada never heard of this model), thay told me to send to them. 5 weeks later they sent it back & said they not support "foreign unit". emailed SS Singapore & Malaysia, they said the same thing. Becareful when you buy a Samsung on ebay or internet stores
good luck for you finding the right device

I think is totally normal to see so many posts about defects / bugs. Usually, peoples who post threads here need help with something. If everyone posted a thread about "Everything's fine with my TP2" when their TP2 is working flawlessly ... well... it would be pretty useless to do that.
Think about it : it's normal to find broken cars in a car dealer's garage. It doesn't mean the car model is crap.

I second that. You will normally see threads asking how to improve things or how to fix things.
Most of the posts here are when people need something, find something that they think could help others, and that's about it. The closest thing you can find to general chat would be the speculation on future support or release dates.
In forums for my last phone you saw threads on how to fix things, and for new software made for it (as a closed platform it had to be hacked and forums where the few places you could get software for the OS, unlike Winmo).
If you'll notice many of the threads are duplicates, and some of the complaints are somewhat invalid as the phone was never designed to do X thing (a prime example are the complaints that the Euro version doesn't support North American 3G bands.
Every phone will have defects and problems unless it's a very well built dumb phone. The question is, just how many people are having said problems, and out of how many satisfied customers without those problems?
Like vakbrain said, you're not going to find a new thread singing the praises of the phone from every person who is happy with it. It'd be extremely tedious, boring, and space consuming.

I love my TP2. I bought it SIM-free so it was quite an investment of cash, but I think it was worth every penny. It has the odd glitch here and there, but then so does any piece of complex modern equipment. I'd fully recommend it without any hesitation at all.

I think my TP2 is great! Ive alerady installed some handy apps to it. Havent had any issues with the device itself really, more like things relating to it. Finding a Good belt clip case for it seems to be a challenge, and Finnic isnt finished yet, so it runs like crap. I would have liked to have a 3.5mm jack on it, but im dealing with the adapter. I do wish TouchFlo had its own Slide to Unlock on it, but meh. i have s2u2 for the moment.

Lyian said:
I think my TP2 is great! Ive alerady installed some handy apps to it. Havent had any issues with the device itself really, more like things relating to it. Finding a Good belt clip case for it seems to be a challenge, and Finnic isnt finished yet, so it runs like crap. I would have liked to have a 3.5mm jack on it, but im dealing with the adapter. I do wish TouchFlo had its own Slide to Unlock on it, but meh. i have s2u2 for the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Lyian, could you please tell me does s2u2 work ok on yours?
i installed the WQVGA v2.04, it doesn't look right to me since everything so small & sticking together. VGA version look normal on my screen. other thing is when i set On Battery Power>Blank Screen on Talk, it works once, try the 2nd time the screen off then back on again. any idea to config it right?
thanks

I am using S2U2 on mine and it works fine. I am using the VGA version and it's flawless.
I love my Pro2!! no problems at all!!

One big difference
Hi all
Thought I'd add a comment.
The one big difference between my Touch Pro2 and every other HTC phone is that the TP2 works extremely well out of the box and while some people are annoyed with all the bundled software (i.e. M3D and it's incalculable extensions) I actually think that this makes is a better device and would rather have more of this than less.
The point is: It does everything I want it to almost out of the box. This has not been the case with any other HTC device I have owned/used.
Best wishes
andrew-in-woking

vakbrain said:
I think is totally normal to see so many posts about defects / bugs. Usually, peoples who post threads here need help with something. If everyone posted a thread about "Everything's fine with my TP2" when their TP2 is working flawlessly ... well... it would be pretty useless to do that.
Think about it : it's normal to find broken cars in a car dealer's garage. It doesn't mean the car model is crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm waiting for it to come out (couple weeks near me). Can't wait, watched plenty of unboxing videos and walkthroughs. *fist pump* Im ready lol.

sakshaug007 said:
Although I won't argue with you, the touch pro2 is a great phone for what it's intended for which is business users. It is lacking a bit hardware wise for multimedia and gaming, since it pretty much has the same processor and memory as its predecessor. It is for this reason that I am still trying to decide between the TP2 and samsung omnia II since it has the faster processor and beautiful AMOLED screen. So if you are shying away from the TP2 I would recommend the omnia II or the omnia pro (has hardware keyboard). Even though it annoyingly lacks a built in stylus (but thats just me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't recommend the OMNIA II or PRO because they have only 137MB of RAM. That's hardly enough to run any software. I was really looking forward to the new OMNIA phones but it's a big disappointment with the lack of ram. I do admit other specs on the phone looks great but without the right amount of ram, the phone is very limited.

No Fail
Had my TP2 for just over a week now, so still getting used to it but I've had absolutely NO issues with it, so far it has surpassed my expectations. It seems fast, responsive and I like the functionality.
The guys who point out that people write in to forums with problems are absolutely correct. People don't just write in to say "I love it" most people here seem to be advanced users, happy to tweak and hack their phones to get that extra 10% out of them.
I'm a business user, I don't anticipate playing many games (that's what the DS/PSP etc. are for) and as a business user I think this phone rocks!
My anti-fail 2c!

No problems at all with mine. Very impressed, kicks my TP's ass in every department except LED flash.
Brilliant phone, top marks to TF3d too.

Well, I haven't gotten a TP2 yet - still waiting for AT&T to release theirs - in the meantime I'm living with my 2.5 year old Virgin Mobile USA prepaid phone, but ready to make the leap to a contract.
What I can say is that the phenomenon where everyone writes in to a forum (especially a big one like XDA) about their issues makes the problems seem much worse than they actually are. For every person posting here about a problem there are at least 2 more that have had NO problem and wouldn't even think of coming to an online forum to solve issues with their phone.
For example, I bought an Asus EeePC last fall, and went to the premier EeePC forum at the time to see what others were saying - it sounded depressing too! Everyone with issues. Then I realized that A) people wouldn't go to a forum to solve a problem if they didn't love the device and wanted to keep it, they'd just get rid of it if they didn't like it, and B) the people who come to forums are device tweakers who must have things just so (I'm one of them too) and thus are looking for feedback regarding their particular pet peeve or issue caused by the one program they just MUST use. People complained about cracks in the hardware, or messed up keyboards, or whatever, but I've thrown my EeePC 1000H in and out of airports plenty of months and it has yet to be less than 100% satisfying, other than the $150 drop in price over when I bought it 10 months ago!
So, what I'm saying is, this is a phenomenon unique to the interwebz and electronics junkies in general, so don't be discouraged by all the negatives around here, in the end we're all just questing to make an amazing device even closer to perfect.

andrew-in-woking said:
Hi all
Thought I'd add a comment.
The one big difference between my Touch Pro2 and every other HTC phone is that the TP2 works extremely well out of the box and while some people are annoyed with all the bundled software (i.e. M3D and it's incalculable extensions) I actually think that this makes is a better device and would rather have more of this than less.
The point is: It does everything I want it to almost out of the box. This has not been the case with any other HTC device I have owned/used.
Best wishes
andrew-in-woking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree with Andrew. I own about 15 HTC phones, starting with the Wallaby, back in 2002. When I unboxed my TP2, I immediately thought 'what do I have to modify now?'. But it worked perfectly out of the box and i havent modified anything. I only installed my connection and Coreplayer... Simply good.
One flaw however is the resolution, which is incompatible with some of my software. But those titles are not vital for me.
So, now I am waiting for the next big hit... HTC SUPERSTAR...where are you??????

henh said:
hi Lyian, could you please tell me does s2u2 work ok on yours?
i installed the WQVGA v2.04, it doesn't look right to me since everything so small & sticking together. VGA version look normal on my screen. other thing is when i set On Battery Power>Blank Screen on Talk, it works once, try the 2nd time the screen off then back on again. any idea to config it right?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The WQVGA is the wrong version for the TP2, you want the VGA version (WQVGA is for smaller resolution phones like the Tilt)
I would say it does work 'ok' on mine. I do have an issue with it here and there that i wont go into here, but for the most part, it doest what i want it to, which is, to keep me from accidentally calling people lol.

OP needs to stop worrying, TP2 is a fantastic device and also get off the apple hype bs, iPhone doesn't have an 800mhz processor lol, more like around 600 for the 3GS, even less for the 3G.

Got my HTC Surround today

I have been playing with it all day, my HTC Surround is quite a toy. While this is version 1.0 of WP7, its pretty good. There are maybe 125 free apps in the market place and most paid apps are $1-$3 or more. I see a lot of potential. The interface is responsive. It's not perfect but I expect MS will address all of its shortcomings. I lost all of my favorite installed apps I had on my Dash 3G - all the TV and radio apps, my MIRC app, most of the things I really care about, so I am holding onto my Dash for now. But I am SURE most of these apps will be ported over sooner than later. If I get desparate, I'll pay AT&T the $10 they want for their streaming app. Video quality is OK using the Zune software. I used it convert my smaller .mp4's using the Zune converter. I may get sharper pictures if I convert from the original .avi's. There are a few free radio apps that work well. So far I don't see any 3rd party video news apps, maybe Netflix is good, so haven't figured out how to get Sky video news, but again i am sure it will be available soon. There's a glitch in windows live causing some people to get error messages, but MS says they will have that fixed shortly. IExp works great, as does the weather maps and search. My contacts downloaded fine from my sim card and synced fine to my computer. All in all this was a good move....can't wait for the rest to come!

Congrats!! And a few questions please
Have you ever played with an HTC Aria and its Sense touch technology? Is the HTC touch interface the same or as stunning on your new phone? I love my Captivate (which askpcguy just helped me unbrick ), but have really always loved Windows' PC OS and the HTC Sense on my Aria just really seemed snappier to me than Samsung's TouchWiz. My fiancee will get my Captivate, but I'm torn between one of the new AT&T 7 phones or a decent touchscreen/real keyboard Android if and when AT&T gets one. I miss my real BB keyboard, but the Torch is too underpowered and the screen is to small for my aging eyes.
Also, I read a few reviews on your excellent phone at PCmag, CNET and Endgadget earlier today, and Endgadget mentioned the fact that the speakers are muffled when closed and you have to really have them open to hear well. That seems logical, but is it as noticeable as they lead one to believe please? Can you hear a call come in well? Endgadget indicates those are the only speakers on the phone, and if muffled, would I still hear my ringtones? For a totally useless question, can you set a whole song as a ringtone, or are you limited to a certain file size like most phones nowadays (my old Krzr, which I used today while Captivate was out of service, can handle a whole song, why not smartphones? One of those things that make me go hmmm?). The same review had issues with the kickstand. What have you noticed please?
I read an interview with HTC's owner and founder in Businessweek this past week, and he is truly a trendsetter. HTC came out of nowhere and are making the best touchscreens I've seen to date (just eclipsed by Samsung and Apple for now in crispness - but that won't be the case for long).

HTC Sense Hub
this is one of the reasons I went with the Surround instead of the Samsung (ok the screen is a bit smaller but I like the build and HTC seems to have better continuing device support)
Well back to the HTC hub, it is very sense like but not as we are used to on WM/Android devices, imho there is a bit too much animation but it is very cool and the device seems to handle the graphice very well. the hub mainly consists of the basic clock/weather combo with links to additional HTC free apps that are many of the unique value added apps we all know and love, Flashlight, calc, a very cool picture enhancer and some others that must be installed, the few att bloat ware present can be easily removed (a first i think) it's not the same as we are used to but they did a nice job of adding the HTC feel as a component to the metro interface. these are just my observations/thoughts and your milage may vary.
Cheers
BR

1toadfacedfrump said:
Have you ever played with an HTC Aria and its Sense touch technology? Is the HTC touch interface the same or as stunning on your new phone? I love my Captivate (which askpcguy just helped me unbrick ), but have really always loved Windows' PC OS and the HTC Sense on my Aria just really seemed snappier to me than Samsung's TouchWiz. My fiancee will get my Captivate, but I'm torn between one of the new AT&T 7 phones or a decent touchscreen/real keyboard Android if and when AT&T gets one. I miss my real BB keyboard, but the Torch is too underpowered and the screen is to small for my aging eyes.
Also, I read a few reviews on your excellent phone at PCmag, CNET and Endgadget earlier today, and Endgadget mentioned the fact that the speakers are muffled when closed and you have to really have them open to hear well. That seems logical, but is it as noticeable as they lead one to believe please? Can you hear a call come in well? Endgadget indicates those are the only speakers on the phone, and if muffled, would I still hear my ringtones? For a totally useless question, can you set a whole song as a ringtone, or are you limited to a certain file size like most phones nowadays (my old Krzr, which I used today while Captivate was out of service, can handle a whole song, why not smartphones? One of those things that make me go hmmm?). The same review had issues with the kickstand. What have you noticed please?
I read an interview with HTC's owner and founder in Businessweek this past week, and he is truly a trendsetter. HTC came out of nowhere and are making the best touchscreens I've seen to date (just eclipsed by Samsung and Apple for now in crispness - but that won't be the case for long).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to break it to you, but HTC cuts a lot of corners. Especially lately. It may be due to demand or whatever, but it's one of the primary reasons I'm looking to buy from another manufacturer this time around. I believe they used to make KIRFs, by the way. Though, I have no source on that.

I really don't like my Surround, but HTC never made KIRFS. HTC made just about everyone else's PDA and WinMo phones back in the day though. Including the XDA (hence the name of this forum, which is based on HTC phones). It wasn't until around 2006/2007 that they started trying to be a brand name in their own right though.

Croak said:
I really don't like my Surround, but HTC never made KIRFS. HTC made just about everyone else's PDA and WinMo phones back in the day though. Including the XDA (hence the name of this forum, which is based on HTC phones). It wasn't until around 2006/2007 that they started trying to be a brand name in their own right though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you going to give the Focus a try? I played with one at the store today and have to admit, it was pretty nice. Didn't look or feel cheap to me.

No, I own a Galaxy S I9000M that's in for repairs, with that I get the same 4" SAMOLED as the Focus, AND a real OS. Once it comes back, this Windows Phone 7 detour is over. After a day of using it, I'm certain Windows Phone 7 is not for me.
On the other hand, this might just be the perfect OS for my father, who still can't set the clock on his microwave.

ericc191 said:
I hate to break it to you, but HTC cuts a lot of corners. Especially lately. It may be due to demand or whatever, but it's one of the primary reasons I'm looking to buy from another manufacturer this time around. I believe they used to make KIRFs, by the way. Though, I have no source on that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, agreed, agreed! I don't think I'm ever going to buy another HTC device, ever, which is why I never looked very hard at Android. I've been burned by their corner cutting several times too many. I was also burned by that WinMo phone from LG that was supposed to sell with the snap on projector and had "numerous UI enhancements" from LG which actually made the already lousy WinMo 6.5 UI even WORSE. It was a bad phone and I don't think AT&T tried selling it for very long. So I went with the Samsung Focus and so far I'm impressed. The hardware is nice, it works well and the system, while spartan, works well and hasn't slowed or crashed on me. As was also mentioned, I have a TON of stuff I use on a regular basis on the iPhone so I haven't sold it, nor am I 100% committed to the Focus yet....I have 30 days to return it and I may do that. But so far I have no reason to do so PLUS Slingplayer, my favorite app of all, is already available for WP. I waited almost a full year for Slingplayer for the iPhone and the day after I buy a WP phone, there it is. Now that's impressive!

Lots of interesting ideas and advice, and I love gaining the pros and cons of devices, as well as the history (thanks Croak ). You guys certainly know your stuff, but before you give up on HTC, get last week's Bloomberg Businessweek and read the interview with the top man, because if he knew of the problems you speak of it appears he would be highly upset. Some of what Croak indicated are in that same article. He seems to be a perfectionist like Mr. Jobs; but being human, we will never attain such a lofty goal, but sure have fun trying.
FWIW, the Sense UI blows me away, which is why I miss the underpowered Aria.

Review/Comparison: Desire Z vs. Touch Pro 2

I’ve defected from Windows Mobile and the Rhodium over to Android and the HTC Desire Z (code name Vision). About a million years ago (late December, actually) Jackos asked that I write a review/comparison of the device, for which I am happy to oblige. Unfortunately, a newborn baby, holiday travel, and work travel have conspired to delay me from writing such a review. But I’m finally taking the time to fulfill the promise. Jackos thought such a review would be useful for those that are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium, so hopefully that is still relevant. Based on a recent thread, I would think so! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=949121
The move to a different OS was certainly something that I’ve been debating for some time. But as we all know (and possibly unwilling to admit), Windows Mobile is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. Windows Phone 7 so far is a big disappointment to me. The OS seems very limited in many of the same ways the iPhone is, with reviews at various websites and comments by users verifying this notion. One article I read about WP7 was that the OS is not a good choice for power users. Android was looking more and more attractive to me. To me, it carries on the spirit of Windows Mobile in terms of customization. Things are not accessed quite the same way as Windows Mobile (there is no registry), but there is still tons of customizations, mods, and hacks available.
Being the owner of the Tilt (Kaiser) and Tilt2 (Touch Pro 2, Rhodium), I’ve become a big HTC fan, and wanted something similar, with a hardware keyboard. The Desire Z has a very similar form factor to the Rhodium, with a hardware keyboard, nearly the same screen size, and similar dimensions. I found out that Bell Canada released the HTC Desire Z in November, with 3G bands compatible with ATT's network. I decided to take the plunge. Not an easy pill to swallow, as an unlocked, unsubsidized device like this goes for a premium price of around $600 (and obviously not for everyone). But what the heck, its a been a good year, and I decided to get myself a Christmas gift. Of course, if you are in Canada, Europe, or on T-Mobile, you have access to specific versions for those locations and carriers at a much better price.
Let me tell you guys, this device is amazing. The build quality is excellent, the phone feels very high end, with most of the body being a gorgeous brushed aluminum, accented with some slightly grippy/rubbery “soft touch” plastic (also nice looking, and does not cheapen the appearance). The feel of the phone is much nicer, and seems more sturdy then the Rhodium.
The camera is 5MP with a LED flash, and yields somewhat better photos than the Rhodium. The screen is gorgeous. While the iPhone “Retina” and Samsung AMOLED displays get all the hype, the super LCD screen on the Desire Z is still very nice. Direct comparisons I have read rate it only slightly below the quality of the iPhone or Galaxy S displays. Touch response is excellent, and registers multi-touch very well.
Much has been said about this phone’s unique “Z Hinge”. See the Engadget review, if you aren't familiar with the Z-hinge: http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/25/htc-desire-z-review/
Some have complained about the phone not staying firmly enough in the keyboard open or closed position, or have expressed concerns of the durability of the hinge. Personally, I like the hinge and how it is designed to open easily with the flick of your thumb. But if you’re in doubt, you might want to play around with it in person before committing to buying the phone.
The keyboard itself is very good. But strangely, not quite as nice as the one on the Touch Pro 2. The the keys are slightly smaller (and one less row of keys), and do not have quite as much “travel” when pressing the keys. It feels like a slight step backward from the Rhodium, but still one of the best keyboards around. Having come from the ATT version of the Rhodium (which replaced the row of numbers with random symbols and punctuations), the missing 4th row of keys is not a big deal. But owners of other Rhodium variants will no doubt miss the number-dedicated row of keys.
Another piece of hardware that is strangely not as good as the Rhodium is the speaker. The speaker on the Desire Z is not quite a loud as on the Rhodium, but the difference is fairly minor, and most people will probably overlook this. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a welcome addition, and good riddance to adapters and special headphones that were needed on the Rhodium (at least the GSM version).
At the time of the phone’s release, this was one of the fastest Android phones available (although there is a new generation of dual core Snapdragons coming soon). Don’t be fooled by the fact that the CPU is clocked at 800 MHz. This is a newer generation of Snapdragon than the 1 GHz ones found on phones such as Nexus One and the EVO, with a different fab process and faster GPU also. The Desire Z benchmarks faster than those phones, as well as the Galaxy S, Droid X, and others. The CPU can also be easily overclocked to 1 GHz without over-volting and affecting battery lift; and much higher than that with over-volting.
Battery life seems somewhat shorter on the Desire Z compared to the Rhodium. I was often able to get 2-3 days on a change on my old Tilt2. On the Desire Z, I usually have to charge every night. I can maybe get through a day and a half; but at least a day with all but the heaviest usage. And to be honest, I’m using the phone much more than I did my old Rhodium, so that is a factor as well.
I've played around with Project Android on my trusty old Tilt2, so Android is not completely new to me. It took me a bit getting accustomed to where some things are located, but that is true with switching to any new phone OS. The OS is overall pretty user friendly. It just takes a little while to dedicate to memory where some settings and other things are located. And there is certainly a learning curve once you are ready for customizing/modifying. There is lots of new terminology, process, and tools to learn if you want to “root” (gain super user rights to access system files) and flash a custom ROM, or do other system modifications.
Knocks on Android for not being as "smooth" as the iPhone seem largely unfounded to me. The Desire Z is super smooth, and of course has tons of customization and functionality that the iPhone will never have. And if you coming from Windows Mobile, you are going to be blown away by the smoothness and stability of the OS. The only real performance weakness I’ve seen so far is switching from portrait to landscape on the homescreen, particularly when you have lots of widgets loaded.
Using the phone is a pleasure. Browser rendering is fast, with the stock browser working very well, and Flash enabled. I’ve been previously in denial that capacity touchscreens are a good thing, but multi-touch pinch-to-zoom really does make browsing a joy. Text selection (such as for cut/paste) is aided by a zoom feature that activates with a long touch on text, and also by the optical trackpad (which allows moving the cursor by single characters).
I already keep my contacts, email, and calendar on Google. So the Google integration is awesome for me. I just entered my Google login and password, and it synched all that stuff in a couple minutes. If you are not a Google user, things might be slightly annoying, as the OS will try to steer you toward creating a Google login. Google Navigation is built-in, and will give you point-to -point directions, with audio cues, and first person perspective. It works better than the tools on Windows Mobile such as Google Maps and Bing. It works so well, in fact, that I've often been using Google Nav instead of my Garmin Nuvi GPS unit in the car.
I knew moving to Android would open up a lot of software options, and in this I was not disappointed. There are tons of useful applications and games on the Android Market, and the list is constantly growing. Software developers have embraced Android, which is a refreshing change coming from Windows Mobile. Yes, there is a ton of fluff and junk in the Android Market. But most of the major applications you can think of have a quality Android version.
I’m not a developer. So I can’t comments on the development potential of this device and Android versus Windows Mobile. But so far there is pretty good developer support on the Desire Z. And many have claimed that developers will support this phone for a long time, as they seem to favor devices with a hardware keyboard. There are several stable custom Froyo (Android 2.2) ROMs available, including Sense and non-Sense options, as well as CyanogenMod (a popular and highly customized Android ROM). Gingerbread (Android 2.3, the latest version, just released) ROMs are in the works, with alpha/beta versions already available for testing. Personally, the stock ROM has been so stable and usable for me, I haven’t really been that tempted to flash a custom ROM yet, versus a Windows Phone, where a custom ROM is virtually a necessity.
I’ve babbled on for much too long. In short, if you are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium to something with a similar form factor, the Desire Z is highly recommended. Here’s a quick summary of the Desire Z versus my old Rhodium:
Pros
OS is light years ahead of Windows Mobile (smooth, stable, fast)
Awesome build quality, with a sturdy feel
Better display
3.5 mm headphone jack
Great selection of quality applications
Slightly better camera (5MP) with LED flash
Cons
Keyboard not quite as good
Speaker not quite as good (minor)
Shorter battery life
Z Hinge durability may be an issue
P.S.: If you like the review, please click the "Thanks" button below!

I really appreciated reading this review. I'm a Tilt 2 user, that hasn't found anything new out there to make me want to give up my Rhodium and I have the same feelings regarding Windows 7, so I'm very hesitant to give it a try. Android is completely new to me, but from what I've read, it seems like the natural progression for those of us on Windows Mobile.
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Thanks again for posting this. I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this device.
Have fun!
Debbie

Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?

DebbieNY13 said:
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having finally lost iPhone exclusivity, AT&T seems to be starting to release some decent Android devices, such as the HTC Inspire (Desire HD variant). I'm skeptical they would release the Desire Z, but maybe they will release a future HTC device with a QWERTY keyboard. One can only hope.
If the keyboard is not an absolute requirement, the Inspire looks like a very nice phone. Larger display than the Desire Z, 1GHz processor (faster then the Z), and a slightly better camera. I've actually been finding myself using Swype more and more, and the keyboard less and less. So that has me rethinking the whole QWERTY keyboard thing, a little bit. Although I still use it from time to time for longer texts and emails.
BTW, if you like the review, please click the "Thank you" button!

Jackos said:
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're very welcome.
For me, spending the money was worth it. It was a lot of money to spend on a phone, but I absolutely love it. I tried to stick with WM as long as I could. But everything just works so much better on the Desire Z. I knew it would be a big improvement, but all my expectations were exceeded.
If you are in a market where your carrier offers this phone for a subsidized price, its a no-brainer.

Very nicely written
I have a TP2 now, also considering the Desire Z since it has a (rare these days) hardware keyboard.
Seeing how the DZ performs (especially when overclocked, wow!) does make me feel quite confident it's somewhat future-proof performance wise.
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
When my contract expires next month I can get a free DZ if I extend my contract.
I'll go to the T-Mobile store tomorrow and see if I can play around with one

ericino said:
Very nicely written
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I was finding myself using the tilt feature on the TP2 less and less. Lots of times, I found it easier to just slide the phone open, write a quick text, then close it quickly, without having to mess with tilting the screen up and down. But of course, this is a personal preference.
The only times I've been missing the tilt screen is while watching video. With the TP2, I could tilt the screen up, then place the phone down on a table to watch. HTC should have added a kickstand, like on the Desire HD. It would have been a very easy to add, and super useful.

Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?

ronh said:
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a paid Android app called Copilot, which is supposed to be pretty good, and does what you want. But I haven't personally used it. There are others, as well.
Also, the Euro version of the Desire Z has a feature of the "new" Sense called HTC Locations, which has a 30-day free trial, than once you pay the monthly fee or buy a lifetime license, you can navigate using maps downloaded to the SD card. Unfortunately, Locations and the Car Panel were removed in the Bell Canada version of the DZ. Likewise, the T-Mobile G2 does not have it, as it is Sense-free. But the feature can be obtained by flashing the stock Euro ROM to either the Bell DZ or the G2. I haven't done this, and I have no idea how well Locations works in the US. But comments by DZ users in the UK and Europe indicate they seem to like it.

i too miss my tilt 2, especially the tilts sliding kb. thats why i come back to these boards every now and again.
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
almost anything i could do with wm i cant do with android only better. android is way more reliable and the tilt2 was a touch underpowered.
as soon as someone comes out with a 4.3inch lcd with a sliding kb that will be my next phone
off topic, don't believe the hype about the evo battery being weak, i get 24-40 hrs per charge, average is probably around 30 hrs and that's with 2 weather apps, face book, 4 emails accounts and Google searches off and on all day with gps location and blue tooth on. i also have a stock rom, although its rooted.
btw tc excellent read.
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.

Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....

F2504x4 said:
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
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Click to collapse
I was specifically asked for a comparison between the Touch Pro 2 and the Desire Z; for TP2 owners who may be interested in upgrading. If it was a straight up review of the DZ only, and no mention of the TP2, I would agree with you. But as you can see from reading my review, I make ample comparisons and references to the TP2, so I believe its appropriate here. The DZ is also a very logical upgrade from the TP2 versus just about every other phone on the market, due to its very similar form factor and same manufacturer.
You said I "have quite a few threads" about the DZ. But this is the only thread I started. I posted a reference to this review on 2 other threads started by others. Those threads were started by users looking for an upgrade similar to the TP2, so that actually reinforces my decision that this forum is the correct location for the review/comparison.
I did debate it for a while (of where to post), and your comment is not unreasonable. But I didn't see the Desire Z the best place to post it. The huge majority of the users on the Desire Z/Vision forum already own the phone, and they don't need to see a review for it. If the moderators don't agree with my judgment call, they can move the thread.
And you linked to the forum for the Desire, not the Desire Z. They are completely different phones.

Considering what HTC 7 Pro has become, looks like the Desire Z is the only one phone coming from HTC to replace the TP2. What a pity!
I'll wait until something new comes out to replace my PPC. TP2 still does a great job for me.
Thanks again for the review.

potna said:
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It true, with Swype, I actually find myself using the screen keyboard much more than I would have thought. In fact, for my next phone I may seriously consider one without a hardware keyboard . . . maybe. But I personally can't stand typing on-screen without Swype.
potna said:
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had that same thought about having a nav program that doesn't need a data connection, so I have a backup in case I am in an area with dodgy coverage, or for foreign use. I might check out something like Copilot, which is only $5 for the US maps (and interestingly $80 for Europe!).

I would like to thank you also for the comparison and ask you about what I haven't read elsewhere.
Is there ability for teleconferencing inDesire Z?
Besides the mentioned problem with the DZ's speaker there were a few times that the feature was (even more than welcome) life-saving while using my rhodium. That, and the Excel files editing.
Also, (a "pro-" feature, not mentioned elsewhere) what about video out?
Am I asking for too much?

Redpoint:
I too have made the upgrade, from TP2 to G2 (Desire Z). Your findings mirror mine almost exactly.
Just in case any one is curious, I'll add my 2 pence.
I still kind of miss the resistive touch screen (think gloves or stylus for precision), but the cap screen is über responsive, and as you said, multi touch is pretty sweet.
I do not miss the complete lack of development of applications for WM. At least at any corporate or popular apps level.
I do miss the great MS Office and Outlook integration. Android does play nice with Exchange, though.
FWIW: Tmo G2's do have a Office compatible suite that should work for docs and xls, but I didn't get a chance to use it. I flashed to a new ROM too fast
I still have the TP2, and will likely futz with it some more, but the G2/DZ is a worthy successor.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

calrification on pro2 vs DZ
Sir/s,
i would like to know if DZ has the following functionalities:
1. exchange sync of email, calendar and contacts.
2. when you download exchange email, is it in html format?
3. can DZ record 2 way voice call? (not via speakerphone)
Above are the features that im frequently using on pro2.