Develop Bugs

HTC Touch Pro 2 = Fail?

I think so and I will tell you why. I have been following this phone since it was announced long ago. I to have been a proud HTC device owner but these days I am not so proud anymore.
I am a Windows Mobile fan. Currently I am using my old trusty or not so trusty these days HTC Kaiser/TYTN2. I became a big fan of the tilt feature. I am a tmobile user so back when the Kaiser was released not having 3g bands was not an issue because tmobile did not have 3g. I bought the Euro version and paid top dollar.
Since then its been hacked and modded to reduce glitches and increase speed but lets face it. The keyboard is worn and almost all keys require a super hard press due to wear and tear. Also the screen is tiny by todays standards. I didnt buy the Euro version of the TP2 because I live in the US and 3g is now an issue. So I waited for the tmobile release now confirmed for aug 12th. Right around the corner!
Those of you who didn't wait seem to be reporting endless bugs and glitches not to mention hardware problems. It is driving me nuts to the point that I am shying away from the TP2 hype. I have been following all the TP2 threads here and its bads news after bad news. Very different from when you all 1st got it.
Please someone speak some positive stuff otherwise I may end up holding onto my Kaiser for another year. Final rant.....the specs could be better. Damn Iphoney has an 800mhz processor and HTC just holds back!

I absolutely love it. I have not one problem with it, except for the battery door. I had to modify it a little but know its fine. Out of the 4 HTC phones I have owned, I think this is the best by far. Good luck with your findings.

Although I won't argue with you, the touch pro2 is a great phone for what it's intended for which is business users. It is lacking a bit hardware wise for multimedia and gaming, since it pretty much has the same processor and memory as its predecessor. It is for this reason that I am still trying to decide between the TP2 and samsung omnia II since it has the faster processor and beautiful AMOLED screen. So if you are shying away from the TP2 I would recommend the omnia II or the omnia pro (has hardware keyboard). Even though it annoyingly lacks a built in stylus (but thats just me).

The Great Malaki said:
The keyboard is worn and almost all keys require a super hard press due to wear and tear.
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Its probably not wear and tear. Its the same thing that happens with TV remotes. Over time, the oils from your fingers seep through the buttons and interfere with the contacts. If you were to take the keyboard appart and wipe down the contacts, no garauntee, but I bet it would work like new.

i think most of the problems people have (including myself) on their TP2 is 3rd party softwares imcompatable to the new UI on TP2. hope HTC will offer an update for TP2 sooner than September.
if you turn away from it for Samsung OmniaHD, make sure buy it from a local Samsung stores or from your mobile operator. i've been in a deep problem trying to get my Omnia i900 fixed. i bought my i900 from an idiot ebay seller named Cutrategoods70. when my i900 bricked from a firmware update, i tried to contact that idiot, never get a reply. i emailed SS service center in UK (coz SS US & Canada never heard of this model), thay told me to send to them. 5 weeks later they sent it back & said they not support "foreign unit". emailed SS Singapore & Malaysia, they said the same thing. Becareful when you buy a Samsung on ebay or internet stores
good luck for you finding the right device

I think is totally normal to see so many posts about defects / bugs. Usually, peoples who post threads here need help with something. If everyone posted a thread about "Everything's fine with my TP2" when their TP2 is working flawlessly ... well... it would be pretty useless to do that.
Think about it : it's normal to find broken cars in a car dealer's garage. It doesn't mean the car model is crap.

I second that. You will normally see threads asking how to improve things or how to fix things.
Most of the posts here are when people need something, find something that they think could help others, and that's about it. The closest thing you can find to general chat would be the speculation on future support or release dates.
In forums for my last phone you saw threads on how to fix things, and for new software made for it (as a closed platform it had to be hacked and forums where the few places you could get software for the OS, unlike Winmo).
If you'll notice many of the threads are duplicates, and some of the complaints are somewhat invalid as the phone was never designed to do X thing (a prime example are the complaints that the Euro version doesn't support North American 3G bands.
Every phone will have defects and problems unless it's a very well built dumb phone. The question is, just how many people are having said problems, and out of how many satisfied customers without those problems?
Like vakbrain said, you're not going to find a new thread singing the praises of the phone from every person who is happy with it. It'd be extremely tedious, boring, and space consuming.

I love my TP2. I bought it SIM-free so it was quite an investment of cash, but I think it was worth every penny. It has the odd glitch here and there, but then so does any piece of complex modern equipment. I'd fully recommend it without any hesitation at all.

I think my TP2 is great! Ive alerady installed some handy apps to it. Havent had any issues with the device itself really, more like things relating to it. Finding a Good belt clip case for it seems to be a challenge, and Finnic isnt finished yet, so it runs like crap. I would have liked to have a 3.5mm jack on it, but im dealing with the adapter. I do wish TouchFlo had its own Slide to Unlock on it, but meh. i have s2u2 for the moment.

Lyian said:
I think my TP2 is great! Ive alerady installed some handy apps to it. Havent had any issues with the device itself really, more like things relating to it. Finding a Good belt clip case for it seems to be a challenge, and Finnic isnt finished yet, so it runs like crap. I would have liked to have a 3.5mm jack on it, but im dealing with the adapter. I do wish TouchFlo had its own Slide to Unlock on it, but meh. i have s2u2 for the moment.
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hi Lyian, could you please tell me does s2u2 work ok on yours?
i installed the WQVGA v2.04, it doesn't look right to me since everything so small & sticking together. VGA version look normal on my screen. other thing is when i set On Battery Power>Blank Screen on Talk, it works once, try the 2nd time the screen off then back on again. any idea to config it right?
thanks

I am using S2U2 on mine and it works fine. I am using the VGA version and it's flawless.
I love my Pro2!! no problems at all!!

One big difference
Hi all
Thought I'd add a comment.
The one big difference between my Touch Pro2 and every other HTC phone is that the TP2 works extremely well out of the box and while some people are annoyed with all the bundled software (i.e. M3D and it's incalculable extensions) I actually think that this makes is a better device and would rather have more of this than less.
The point is: It does everything I want it to almost out of the box. This has not been the case with any other HTC device I have owned/used.
Best wishes
andrew-in-woking

vakbrain said:
I think is totally normal to see so many posts about defects / bugs. Usually, peoples who post threads here need help with something. If everyone posted a thread about "Everything's fine with my TP2" when their TP2 is working flawlessly ... well... it would be pretty useless to do that.
Think about it : it's normal to find broken cars in a car dealer's garage. It doesn't mean the car model is crap.
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Thank you. I'm waiting for it to come out (couple weeks near me). Can't wait, watched plenty of unboxing videos and walkthroughs. *fist pump* Im ready lol.

sakshaug007 said:
Although I won't argue with you, the touch pro2 is a great phone for what it's intended for which is business users. It is lacking a bit hardware wise for multimedia and gaming, since it pretty much has the same processor and memory as its predecessor. It is for this reason that I am still trying to decide between the TP2 and samsung omnia II since it has the faster processor and beautiful AMOLED screen. So if you are shying away from the TP2 I would recommend the omnia II or the omnia pro (has hardware keyboard). Even though it annoyingly lacks a built in stylus (but thats just me).
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I wouldn't recommend the OMNIA II or PRO because they have only 137MB of RAM. That's hardly enough to run any software. I was really looking forward to the new OMNIA phones but it's a big disappointment with the lack of ram. I do admit other specs on the phone looks great but without the right amount of ram, the phone is very limited.

No Fail
Had my TP2 for just over a week now, so still getting used to it but I've had absolutely NO issues with it, so far it has surpassed my expectations. It seems fast, responsive and I like the functionality.
The guys who point out that people write in to forums with problems are absolutely correct. People don't just write in to say "I love it" most people here seem to be advanced users, happy to tweak and hack their phones to get that extra 10% out of them.
I'm a business user, I don't anticipate playing many games (that's what the DS/PSP etc. are for) and as a business user I think this phone rocks!
My anti-fail 2c!

No problems at all with mine. Very impressed, kicks my TP's ass in every department except LED flash.
Brilliant phone, top marks to TF3d too.

Well, I haven't gotten a TP2 yet - still waiting for AT&T to release theirs - in the meantime I'm living with my 2.5 year old Virgin Mobile USA prepaid phone, but ready to make the leap to a contract.
What I can say is that the phenomenon where everyone writes in to a forum (especially a big one like XDA) about their issues makes the problems seem much worse than they actually are. For every person posting here about a problem there are at least 2 more that have had NO problem and wouldn't even think of coming to an online forum to solve issues with their phone.
For example, I bought an Asus EeePC last fall, and went to the premier EeePC forum at the time to see what others were saying - it sounded depressing too! Everyone with issues. Then I realized that A) people wouldn't go to a forum to solve a problem if they didn't love the device and wanted to keep it, they'd just get rid of it if they didn't like it, and B) the people who come to forums are device tweakers who must have things just so (I'm one of them too) and thus are looking for feedback regarding their particular pet peeve or issue caused by the one program they just MUST use. People complained about cracks in the hardware, or messed up keyboards, or whatever, but I've thrown my EeePC 1000H in and out of airports plenty of months and it has yet to be less than 100% satisfying, other than the $150 drop in price over when I bought it 10 months ago!
So, what I'm saying is, this is a phenomenon unique to the interwebz and electronics junkies in general, so don't be discouraged by all the negatives around here, in the end we're all just questing to make an amazing device even closer to perfect.

andrew-in-woking said:
Hi all
Thought I'd add a comment.
The one big difference between my Touch Pro2 and every other HTC phone is that the TP2 works extremely well out of the box and while some people are annoyed with all the bundled software (i.e. M3D and it's incalculable extensions) I actually think that this makes is a better device and would rather have more of this than less.
The point is: It does everything I want it to almost out of the box. This has not been the case with any other HTC device I have owned/used.
Best wishes
andrew-in-woking
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I must agree with Andrew. I own about 15 HTC phones, starting with the Wallaby, back in 2002. When I unboxed my TP2, I immediately thought 'what do I have to modify now?'. But it worked perfectly out of the box and i havent modified anything. I only installed my connection and Coreplayer... Simply good.
One flaw however is the resolution, which is incompatible with some of my software. But those titles are not vital for me.
So, now I am waiting for the next big hit... HTC SUPERSTAR...where are you??????

henh said:
hi Lyian, could you please tell me does s2u2 work ok on yours?
i installed the WQVGA v2.04, it doesn't look right to me since everything so small & sticking together. VGA version look normal on my screen. other thing is when i set On Battery Power>Blank Screen on Talk, it works once, try the 2nd time the screen off then back on again. any idea to config it right?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The WQVGA is the wrong version for the TP2, you want the VGA version (WQVGA is for smaller resolution phones like the Tilt)
I would say it does work 'ok' on mine. I do have an issue with it here and there that i wont go into here, but for the most part, it doest what i want it to, which is, to keep me from accidentally calling people lol.

OP needs to stop worrying, TP2 is a fantastic device and also get off the apple hype bs, iPhone doesn't have an 800mhz processor lol, more like around 600 for the 3GS, even less for the 3G.

Get Desire or the new iPhone?

I don't know what to do. I really like my wife's Desire, and I actually ordered one. Now I read that the new iPhone will probably be available end June, if not sooner.
I don't know which one to go for. Any (objective) suggestions?

If you have to ask then your proberly better off with a iphone
Everyone here will most likely say Desire, seeing as you posted in a desire specific thread........

I am using a 3GS at the moment, and I love it. However, the Desire is a huge jump from the HTC Hero (which my wife also has), and for the first time I see it as an alternative to the iPhone. With Froyo coming (if it comes to the Desire), I am even more interested.
A big plus is also that the Desire is available now, while no one can tell when the iPhone will be available here in SA.
This is why I am asking for opinions, as for why in this particular forum - because I believe that objective users who have used both, and are informed about what is coming for iPhone, will be able to offer best advice.

If you love your iPhone 3GS and are happy with the level of control that Apple exerts over the platform, wait for the new iPhone and then make a decision.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
and are happy with the level of control that Apple exerts over the platform,
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My iPhone is jailbroken, so not too phased with that. However I do find the features announced for Froyo very appealing.

Vlad_M said:
My iPhone is jailbroken, so not too phased with that. However I do find the features announced for Froyo very appealing.
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Well i should of said before, i come from apple iphone 2g, 3g and 3gs. And i can say for myself without a shodow of a doubt, that android is a much more superior OS the apple have mad, yes the UI may not be as polished, but Android i belive is a more capable device than steve jobs will ever allow.
Plus i LOVE supporting the OPEN community. Not what apple decide i can see. ( Remembering they could remotely delete stuff of your iphone).
In my opionion only i would suggest the Android devices everytime!!
I can see their soon going to knock apple off the top spot for good. Espically after that thing they call an ipad, waste of fu*king money!!

if you like singletask and homescreens with only icons, then you should definitely go for the iphone 4g
If you like a REAL OS then go for Android

Vlad_M said:
I don't know what to do. I really like my wife's Desire, and I actually ordered one. Now I read that the new iPhone will probably be available end June, if not sooner.
I don't know which one to go for. Any (objective) suggestions?
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Click to collapse
I have both phones and I see positives in both. The layout of the Iphone is better to me in that it is marginally bigger and the keyboard is better, however, the software and ability to make changes to the Desire is very appealing too and you can get other keyboards.
If you ask me outright which phone, I'd have to say the Desire and the thing that sways me is the FM Radio (silly I know but I use the radio a lot). The Iphone doesn't have a radio.
Hope this helps.

Objective opinion?
Wait until the new iPhone has been announced and officially released

gogol said:
Objective opinion?
Wait until the new iPhone has been announced and officially released
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Yea, the new iphone looks good.
I reason i didn't get one is because everyone else has one and the desire turns heads a bit more, especially with the ''seeds of life'' live wallpaper. it always makes people chuckle.

If you like modding your phone and you love instant updates, then i would go with N1 I have just sold my desire and bought an N1
JD

gogol said:
Objective opinion?
Wait until the new iPhone has been announced and officially released
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Agreed..................

Hardware-wise, the new iPhone is just a clone of the Desire with a nicer design. Nothing special, more like catching up with the competition (and being left behind immediately, by phones like the Evo, Moto Shadow, Galaxy S, Dell Thunder etc...).
Software-wise, Android is much better than iPhone OS. Since we know already that iPhone OS 4 will not even come close to Android 2.1/2.2, I think it's safe to get a Desire now.
Or you wait for another great Android phone that's coming out in June/July. Waiting yes, but for new Android phones rather than that iPhone.

Wait for the Evo , when it goes on gen release , Bar a few bits in the US ... My Desire ( orange UK ) is fab until then ...

shaundalglish said:
Hardware-wise, the new iPhone is just a clone of the Desire with a nicer design. Nothing special, more like catching up with the competition (and being left behind immediately, by phones like the Evo, Moto Shadow, Galaxy S, Dell Thunder etc...).
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How can a phone that's around for about 4 years and hasn't changed much in design and always has different hardware compared to others be a clone?
May I remind you the 3gs still is superior to the desire graphic wize...
The new Iphone will have a lot more graphical power then the desire, even the samsung galaxy (wich uses a new model of the gpu the iphone uses) will fall short. Because if it doesn't steve won't make a lot of money.
Maybe new htc phones will be able to beat the new Iphone, but the Desire won't...
Talking about software I totally agree with you, android already is more mature then Iphone os will ever be. And it's the main reason I won't ever buy an Isheep

Well if look at the "all package" the desire, as well as other Android phones are better that the iphone, simply because of the OS. With Desire you also get a powerfull and fast smartphone.
Sure graphics are better on the iphone for now, but when Android allow installation on sdcard and games start to use opengl we should see many improvements, since the developers will surely use the most used platforms for games i mean (directx and opengl - opengl for smartphones of course).
On the look side, the really annoying thing (to me) on the desire are the physical buttons, i prefer buttons like the wildfire or the legend. Another thing is the mono speaker which lacks some quality to me in some phone sounds and when in calls but is ok when listen to music (maybe this could be improved by htc in future updates).
You should also take in consideration that despite Android is very young it started already to make some bumps on Apple iPhones, so you could imagine what the future will bring to the Android users... And HTC makes good phones and their sense really makes a difference to me, because UI is very very important! i really dislike those basic screens that the iphone have with no widgets.
Some user have refered that iphone keyboard is better, but if you use HTC_IME_MOD you will get one of the best keyboards ever on Desire! Much much better that the iphone.
It's not that i don't like iphone or Apple, but another thing to take into account are the very overpriced cost of an iphone when comparing with the competitors.
In addiction i would suggest WP7. I'm really waiting for it to be released (end of this year) because sometimes i'm really tired of having to use icons or whatever to open a program on android or the iphone. WP7 will bring a new way to interact with the programs that i liked very much (thats why i like widgets on android, i have what i want directly on the screen without having to open the program).
For now i will stick with Desire because i like Android and i use the Google services as well as Microsoft services, so i will definitely get a WP7 (perhaps from HTC again) when it gets out.
Hope this helps!
ONE LAST NOTE: Maybe Nokia will learn with their mistakes and start shipping phones with Android and WP7 - This would be very interesting and could surely break the market a lot!!

Personally I hate apple and everything they do and stand for. I would back this up but don't have time.....
I hate seeing that every sound station of any worth has Iphone/Ipod adapters etc however it shows they have been much more effective at marketing than any other company at present.
For example, the chap sitting opposite me buys everything apple. He wants the iPAD just because its the latest Apple gadg. He has no need for it though. I find that laughable.
I had an iTouch and sold it. The way it forces me to use it stinks. The lack of control is frustrating. The lack of flash is just laughable.
I came from Nokia (N900) to HTC for the first time, and apart from crap AMOLED screens that are simply unuseable outside and the touch screens (not my favourite but seems to be the future sadly), I love it. Ever tried using Maps / sat nav whilst out walking.....its impossible and a joke.
I would say if HTC came up with a screen that worked in day light and had full flash (bring on 2.2) I would say the desire is near perfect for me. Apple? Appple who???

I bought my wife an iPhone 3G last Christmas. At that time I was using HTC Touch Pro and as soon as I saw the big screen and tried it out I could not even look at my TP. ;-)
I bought her the iPhone because of how user friendly it is for people with little to no knowledge about phones/IT etc. She has absolutely no problem with it. Everything that she installs works as intended.
However, I myself could not use an iPhone because I need a little bit more freedom (and I don't like the fact that all iPhones look the same).
I like to experiment with new ROMs, applications and I felt that Android is much better for this purpose. So I bought a Desire.
So... if you want a phone that works out-of-the-box and you don't want to waste time with modifications and you don't mind the restrictions go for the iPhone.
If you want more "freedom" (customizations, ROMs) go for the Desire
Although, I must say that Desire is also an example of a "out-of-the-box working" phone and so far I had no urge to swap ROMs...
Seeing that you are willing to wait until June for the new iPhone why not do so and see what HTC will prepare by then? Then you will have either the latest iPhone or the latest Android phone (perhaps with Froyo).
You lose nothing, you still have your 3GS (which I think is still a superb machine).

Well, a bit late but perhaps this might help:
Choose the one you feel best with. The one that makes you happy. The one that satisfies your needs.
As for OS quality or apps or functionality, I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
So, same as others. Why not wait for the new iPhone and then see what's available then. At least if that is the reason you are in doubt. Because otherwise you can do the waiting game for years without ever buying a phone

Unless the new iPhone gives you more felxibility then definitely the Desire.

finally got wp7.....wow..

Wow is all I can say...I bought the focus and the UI blew me away as soon as I turned it on, I bought the focus. I have used all the mobile OS and this by far is the most sleek, easy to use, and just plain nice of all, I don't miss c&p bug I do miss multitasking in apps like last.fm, I can still send it back and get something else, but what's better then this? I'm typing this from wp7 now and man this keyboard is awesome, the level of little details they put into wp7 is crazy, gotta say I'm really impressed here, I'm sticking with this for a while to see where this goes, hopefully MS stays true to their word and keeps on supporting with updates, as for apps, I've come to realize that I don't need a million apps, I only use like 20 anyway, but it seems to be growing fast anyway. All in all super impressed with wp7,9/10 from me and if this keeps getting better, I don't see myself going back to anything else.

Yea I played with the Focus today at the AT&T(worst wireless carrier in the universe) store and I love the UI and how smooth the OS is. I'm currently on Evo 4G, but I'm considering WP7 once it comes to Sprint. I previously had the iPhone 3GS and WP7 user experience is very comparable with iOS. While I like Android the lack of GPU acceleration is a huge issue, until that's implemented the user experience will never compare to iOS and WP7. I'm holding out for the January update to see if MS adds free turn by turn navigation, better landscape support(what idiot decided that you can't input a URL in landscape mode?), flash and copy and paste.

Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.

solidkevin said:
Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=814075
first pinned thread.
though i'm happy with my phone.

Believe it Or not I am very tempted to get an n8 as well, saw it in person and wow, what excellent hardware!! And it does all those little things like mass storage etc. Anyone here have an n8?

N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

solidkevin: The windows phone might have some small problems but that nothing compared to the N8. I only hear bad stories from people that have that phone.

KMino said:
N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.

Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.

solidkevin said:
Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.
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Isn't it just Nokia now who are actively developing Symbian?

Symbian will be ditched to midend and Meego or however it's called will be used as highend platform. Known for months.
Symbian development is over for me. Nokia has a reeeaally hard time to give really competitive hardwarwe. I would forget it.
And yes, only Nokia does Symbian. All of the rest kicked it out, significant move.

N8ter said:
Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.
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Click to collapse
Good post. You made some valid points, but I got the impression that you believe MS dropped the ball with WP7, and I don't believe that to be a true..or even fair assessment.
It is the nature of version 1.0 of just about anything to be incomplete..to be a work in progress. In regards to smart phone OS's, its always been that way. iOS v1.0 was very limited, as was Android 1.0, and so on so forth. I was an early adopter of both platforms and was at times frustrated by the limitations. But, as an early adopter I understood that this was the way it usually is, and that things would gradually flesh out.
For me, iOS never did "flesh out" enough. I've always loved the smoothness and general quality of iOS and the iPhone, but I found myself bored by it. Android did grow and develop quickly enough to keep me engaged, and I still enjoy the control I have when using Android...and also enjoy that the relatively open nature of it allows be to constantly tinker with my device. But, even though I usually enjoy doing so, the main reason I'm always tinkering with my Android devices is because I've never been satisfied with how they felt. I hate the apparently inherent choppiness and occasional lag of Android, and my main motivation for rooting my Android devices had always been to try to get rid that.
Somewhere between those 2 extremes lies WP7. Yes, in some regards it is limited. But, I can accept this for now because, as I mentioned earlier it is v1.0 and I know these limitations are being worked on as we speak. Many people are refusing to accept that, though...and it seems that you're one of them.
The gist of the argument seems to be that MS came late to the party, so they had already known what the dress code was, and shouldve showed up fully decked out. That they shouldn't have released v1.0 until it matched its contemporaries feature for feature. I disagree with this. I think MS was right in getting a v1.0 that provided the basic user experience that they were aiming for out there as soon as was possible. Did this strategy suddenly propel WP7 to the top of the smart phone world? No, not even close. But it has managed to grab just about everyone's attention...and has solidified it's position as a viable player. I believe that is all MS wanted to accomplish by rushing to release v1.0 just before the holiday season...and I also believe that it was better for them to do so than for them to sit out until after the holidays.
I am convinced that WP7 v1.0 is the best 1.0 smart phone OS released to date. I think that MS got the basics incredibly right...and that the limitations are going to begin to be addressed very soon. Yes, MS was late to the party, but they've shown up with more style than anyone else, if not with as much substance...and they are moving much faster than both Google and Apple did to provide said substance. WP7 is a joy to interact with. It is beautiful. It's fun. So much so, that despite the current limitations, I choose to use my HD7 as my daily driver...and to leave my Android phones at home.
WP7 is in many ways very good right now, and it has an extremely bright future. I can understand that some of you don't have the patience to wait for WP7 to catch up in the few areas that it's lacking in, but such patience is a prerequisite of being a happy early adopter. If you can't enjoy experiencing the growth process of a new platform, then maybe being an early adopter isn't for you. But, please people, don't make it seem like MS blew it in regards to WP7, because that couldn't be further from the truth.
Oh, one last thing. How in the world does the HD7 have horrible build quality?? Yes, as you tilt the phone away from the optimal viewing angle, the colors somewhat fade. It is not an AMOLED screen and the black levels pale in comparison..quite literally. But, when I use my phone, I tend to keep it within the optimal viewing angles...and within those parameters, the HD7's screen displays good and VERY natural colors..unlike the overwhelmingly oversaturated colors that my Galaxy S displays...and without any banding.
Also, I love the 4.3" screen. Those extra .3" make a real difference. Do I prefer the outrageously deep blacks and the incredibly effective viewing angles of the Super AMOLED screen? Yes, if course. But, I prefer my HD7's spacious, natural looking screen in every other way.
Outside of the screen though, I don't see how anyone can critize it's quality. I've owned MANY top of the line mobile devices, and none have felt better in the hand than the HD7. It looks good and feels good because HD7 uses high quality materials..unlike Samsung. People complain about the thinness of the back cover. It is just as thin..or thick, as the one on the Evo...and I don't see anyone criticizing it's quality. Despite being thin, it feels great when attached to the phone. The soft touch surface is great.
I'm also aware of the complaints about a relatively large gap between the removable and fixed portions if the back of the phone. I found this to be an optical illusion caused by the unfortunate location of the white sim card right where it's partially visible through the gap. But, I found an easy fix. I pulled my SIM card and colored the upper third of it with a black sharpie. Guess what...after that, the so called huge gap magically disappeared. The gap itself is no larger than on most phones. The location of the sim card was the problem. It looks great after taking a sharpie to it.

I can't reply to all the parts of that. Will take too long.
The build quality of the HD7 is terrible compared to the Dell Venue Pro. HTC was never known for having superior build quality. The HD2 was pretty good, though. Don't know why they paid so little attention to the HD7...
The HD7 has basically the same LCD panel from the Evo and/or HD2. It's not a good panel. It has bad color saturation and terrible viewing angles. It's also overly reflective. Size can only make up for so much, but you can get a Dell Venur Pro 16GB on contract for $50 less than an HD7 and the screen is only 0.2" smaller. The HD7 is a pretty bad phone by current standards. They used parts from last year to build a phone this year, and it's pretty apparent if you look at it next to other WP7 devices.
You can harp on the oversaturation in sAMOLED panels, but the fact and the matter is that it blows this crappy HD7 panel out of the water in almost any category. Viewing Angles, Brightness, Color Representation, etc. It's a bad screen. You can't make excuses for that... It almost looks foggy compared to an AMOLED panel (even something like the MyTouch 4G screen is obviously better).
Also, it has a smaller battery than some Blackberry Curve smartphones. 1150 mAh... Seriously? Anyone who uses their phone moderately will not be able to get good battery life out of that. It may be fine for YOU, at least now, especially with no third-party multi-tasking (this also makes WP7 perform artificially better compared to competing products - it only has to do one task at a time), but once that update comes and you're running 3-4 apps concurrently it will nosedize. All reviews has been pretty negative on the small battery in the phone.
The camera also isn't anything to rave about.
The materials used to build the phone are pretty dubious.
Build quality means the hardware build quality. It has nothing to do with the software.
Moving on to the software (WP7). Yes, they dropped the ball. They missed an opportunity to get a ton of frustrated Nokia and RIM users, as well as pick off more Android/iOS users when they decided to rush the OS out 6-12 months early with entire classes of functinality missing.
WP7 fails as a business phone right now, and Microsoft saying they're focusing on consumers is nothing short of an excuse. They said it will take almost a year to bake the business into the phone, so obviously that was in the roadmap. What they did was rush it out to try to save face while they "finished' the job. Coming from Android and Windows Mobile, some people are tired waiting on Manufacturers, etc. to "finish the job" while they sit there with a down syndrome phone saying "look how smooth it is, it's worth it!"
No HTML5 in the browser. No multi-tasking, C&P, embarassing Exchange Policy Support for a Microsoft OS, a user interface that in several areas looks like only 5 minutes was dedicated to design (Calendar, Dialer, etc.), lack of Flash (oand/r Silverlight), etc. Even blackberries have an HTML browser, now Not to mention WP7 didn't evne attempt to really exploit the enhancements made in Microsoft Exchange to convince business users to use it instead of RIM/Nokie/WM6.5 devices...
If you read my posts in this thread, you can clearly see that I'm not some Anti-WP7 fanboi.
But I think some people are making this OS to be way better than it actually is.
It really isn't revolutionary in any way, and falls on it face in many areas given what competing products can do and [rightfully] assuming competing products will improve as well.
The only thing that's really good about WP7 is the fact that it doubles up as a ZuneHD.
But a ZuneHD is cheaper than a whole smartphone and at this point in time it's almost worth buying an Andriod/iOS device and carrying a (much smaller) ZuneHD around than buying a WP7 device.
The hardware isn't all that good right now (will probably make a lot of "early adopters" mad at CES), and the manufacturers are paying little attention to what they're putting out.
If the Dell Venue Pro was in T-Mobile stores they would hardly sell any HD7s.

Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8er
So now after fighting with everybody and proving WP7 is the best,
you say it basically sucks?
Hard to believe.
And apparently you don't have WP7 device?

It's all well and good comparing feature lists, but really when you are talking about a smart mobile phone, it comes down to usability.
I put up with the quirks of WM5, 6.1 and 6.5 for a few years. While it did technically have a lot of features, it was slow and a pain in the ass to use. And if anyone not familiar with the phone used it they were immediately lost.
Now I'm using WP7 (HD7) since October and it just works. It's fast and everything is intuitive and makes sense. And oddly enough I am only very rarely missing some advanced features. For example, I thought I'd be crippled without tethering, but as it turns out I am using my laptop via tethering much less when I'm travelling because the mobile browser and mobile apps on WP7 are so much better than any previous mobile browsers I'd used, so I'm more likely to use it rather than just getting frustrated and dragging out the laptop to use the "proper" browser. The great WP7 keyboard has a lot to do with this.
And if I lend my phone to someone else so they can make a call or check their email or whatever, they can use it! WP7 passes the idiot test! I would actually get this phone for my father!
A few days ago I met a techy friend who's a nokia die-hard, he had just purchased the N8. We swapped phones for half an hour to test them out, and the look on his face afterwards was proof enough that MS is on to something. My initial impression of the N8 software was that Nokia hasn't changed their OS since 1999. There was an impressive list of features for sure, if you could find them, as the menu system and shortcuts confused the hell out of me. And fonts were tiny everywhere. Maybe I'm just spoiled by WP7 now, but the experience of using the N8 was dreadful.
TLDR; You can compare a list of features as much as you like to see which is best; but you have to experience it to appreciate it. And WP7 seems to have the edge in this regard at the moment, even above iOS and Android.

Focus
nrfitchett4 said:
Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
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Click to collapse
"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.

N8ter said:
I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
the reviews I've read, had the screen as the "worst" of the wp7 phones, but due to bigger color range of wp7, the screen looked better than the hd2. Being the worst of the wp7 phones, is like saying the worst between a lcd, a plasma, and a dlp t.v. They are all perfectly acceptable, some people like lcd, some like plasma, I like dlp because it looks better for sports.
As far as the dvp begin better than the hd7, what are you basing this on? Hardly anyone has been able to get their hands on one. You can't go to a store and try it out since its only coming through dell and MS.
HD7 has a bigger screen, and more RAM.
Hell, even engadget can't get a review out because their demo units keep breaking...
We get it, you hate the hd7, but I don't think the dvp is any better.

JamesAllen said:
"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.
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http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...nding-issue-microsoft-could-partially-fix-it/

What got you started on WP7?

I used to be one of the android tools blindly mocking WP7, it just looked... I don't know... bland. I wanted nothing to do with it. I always have at least 8 phones, new and old I like to tinker with both hardware and software. I found a guy on craigslist who wanted a behold 2 for his HD7.... I thought it was a joke... I mean he was hell-bent on the behold 2 so I figured "what the hell?" I dug up that sad excuse for a phone that I'd used for about 3 hours and called him up. He was so excited and dropped that phone on me like it was an envelope of anthrax. I figured I'd make a quick upgrade as I'd seen them going for G2s and MT4gs all over the place so I posted it. I got that mytouch 4g... screen felt tiny and the OS was just too slow... I'd used WP7 for less than 2 days and in that time I'd become an addict without even knowing I liked it. The speed, the quality of the UI, the social integration, just everything was so perfect for me... I quickly got rid of that MT4g for an unlocked Focus and since then have obtained every US released WP7 device and 2 of each the venue pro and the focus. The only android device I have remaining is a streak which is pretty much used exclusively for angry birds. I love the trade-off.

They're heavily discounted on the resale market here in Canada.
Sent from my GT-I9000M

for me...
from a phone perspective, i would say that i am a general user with power knowledge. given that, windows phone is perfect for me. after 6.5 where i had to mod it to death, i am happy to just have a phone that caters to my needs and does it well. i know there are still things missing, but what is missing, i rarely used it on wm6.5 anyways, so it hasn't bothered me all too much. and no, this doesn't mean i don't want updates, i want them, especially as it enhances user experience (e.g. faster performance, HTML5, etc), but i am content with what i got as well. also, i quite like the casual gaming perspective and i have an xbox gold subscription, so it was more than obvious that getting it together was only right, that and i use live services quite a bit, so really it all just went together.
but from a developer point of view, i have been doing C# for the last year at work, so it was also only right that i got a windows phone and began utilising my skills for it. i haven't created anything final yet, but i've looked into things and began stuffing around my it in the emulator. so yea, all in all, more because i already work with a lot of MS products, it is only right to have it married all together via windows phone.
That and Australia has SO many iPhone sheep, i didn't want to be one, and Android isn't all that appealing because it reminds me too much of the management i had to do for WM6.5. And no, neither iPhone or Android are bad units, i know how to use them both, and they definitely have things over WP, but not enough to make me say that i need it over WP.

I wanted to be on the ground floor of an OS and after having a mobile rep pull a demo hd7 from re back on launch day, I was sold in about 10 minutes. I had never used a phone so smooth out of the box. Tried the vibrant and there was no the fluidity I was looking for.
As a winmo user for several years, it is nice to hav AP hone that just works where I can play withmy phone instead of constantly flashing and tweaking it.
Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

z33dev33l said:
I used to be one of the android tools blindly mocking WP7, it just looked... I don't know... bland. I wanted nothing to do with it. I always have at least 8 phones, new and old I like to tinker with both hardware and software. I found a guy on craigslist who wanted a behold 2 for his HD7.... I thought it was a joke... I mean he was hell-bent on the behold 2 so I figured "what the hell?" I dug up that sad excuse for a phone that I'd used for about 3 hours and called him up. He was so excited and dropped that phone on me like it was an envelope of anthrax. I figured I'd make a quick upgrade as I'd seen them going for G2s and MT4gs all over the place so I posted it. I got that mytouch 4g... screen felt tiny and the OS was just too slow... I'd used WP7 for less than 2 days and in that time I'd become an addict without even knowing I liked it. The speed, the quality of the UI, the social integration, just everything was so perfect for me... I quickly got rid of that MT4g for an unlocked Focus and since then have obtained every US released WP7 device and 2 of each the venue pro and the focus. The only android device I have remaining is a streak which is pretty much used exclusively for angry birds. I love the trade-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The appearance. I love the look of the UI and tried a couple Metro themes on WinMo and loved it. The whole UI is the only thing that grabbed me. But I also thought it was MS's iPhone...meaning something the huge company was going to do to compete with iPhone. That also meant, to me, superior quality.
But while I was trying Metro themes, I was keeping up with HD3 hardware rumors and the rumored specs, which turned out to be completely false, were very impressive and I just had to have an HD3.

MartyLK said:
But while I was trying Metro themes, I was keeping up with HD3 hardware rumors and the rumored specs, which turned out to be completely false, were very impressive and I just had to have an HD3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i hope you realise that it was merely a design created by NAK. NAK create several concept phones with concept specs. they were never intended to be any more than that. when i first saw it, i was like... that would be pretty sweet, but seeing NAK logo, it was clear that it was just a concept phone.

The Gate Keeper said:
i hope you realise that it was merely a design created by NAK. NAK create several concept phones with concept specs. they were never intended to be any more than that. when i first saw it, i was like... that would be pretty sweet, but seeing NAK logo, it was clear that it was just a concept phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL...hehe a lot of people made me aware of that over the few months before the real HD7 was released. I still kept hoping, though. Nevertheless, I was glad to get the real phone, regardless of the lowered specs.

yea. even though i own a trophy and i know it's probably the lowest in all the devices as there is no stand out feature, i'm still happy with my device.

i bought the HD 7 just because its windows... but to my surprise MS have developed a great mobile os... i have been using MS since PPC2000, wincCE.... and it was buggy... WP7 works out of the box as a phone, pda and a smart phone.. i know ppl will say dont have multitasking, cut and paste but to me its working very well till now....

I gave a little consideration to a Focus lately because I will be going over to AT&T within a month, but I'm just not too keen on Sammy quality lately. They had some big issue with a number of their phones and I'm wanting to avoid them. Too damn bad Dell doesn't put their WP7 phone out to the carriers to sell.

I started to use smartphone since O2 Xphone II. Moving to WM5, WM6, WM6.1 and jump over to BlackBerry due to the feature of push mail and social matter. I come back to WP7 after a year and am a happy user of WP7 now.

Good topic!
I had an original HTC Touch back in the day. It was awful. Then I switched back to a dumphone, the LG Voyager. Good little device, but the hardware broke after a year and a bit. So we upgraded. My wife got an iPhone, and there was nothing really that appealed to me. So I went with the Omnia 2. I knew winmo from before, and liked the look of it. But 6.5 proved to be the same frustrating experience as the HTC Touch (although I know most of the problems were due to bloatware from Samsung). I'm not profficient enough to flash, so I put up with it until I reached critical mass. I liked how my wife's iPhone "just worked". But I find iPhones themselves boring. Just rows of boxes. So I looked into Android, and found out it's the same as winmo (clutter, memory issues, fragmentation).
Then wp7 came out, I cautiously researched the hell out of it, and found that it was perfect for what I needed. it "just works", has xbox integration, office, etc. And for some reason I just love the look of it. I get so mystified when people say things like "boring dumb tiles" or "ulgy ass tiles". I don't know man, I just think wp7's look awesome. The tiles are great, it is the smoothest UI I've ever used, which to me, is bar none. Above all else on a smartpone, the UI should be front and centre.
So I went and got the Quantum (the only one available at the time), and was blown away by the hardware. I love heavy phones (feels like you've actually got something nice), and it's rigid and solid.
Anyways that's what got me here, and I expect to be a wp user for years.

my hd7 was a gift from my uncle.
i jumped from a sony ericsson s500i to an hd7

WP7 did not impress me until I touched the real phone at AT&T store. Operations are so fluid and the live tiles presents more than I expected.

Review/Comparison: Desire Z vs. Touch Pro 2

I’ve defected from Windows Mobile and the Rhodium over to Android and the HTC Desire Z (code name Vision). About a million years ago (late December, actually) Jackos asked that I write a review/comparison of the device, for which I am happy to oblige. Unfortunately, a newborn baby, holiday travel, and work travel have conspired to delay me from writing such a review. But I’m finally taking the time to fulfill the promise. Jackos thought such a review would be useful for those that are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium, so hopefully that is still relevant. Based on a recent thread, I would think so! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=949121
The move to a different OS was certainly something that I’ve been debating for some time. But as we all know (and possibly unwilling to admit), Windows Mobile is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. Windows Phone 7 so far is a big disappointment to me. The OS seems very limited in many of the same ways the iPhone is, with reviews at various websites and comments by users verifying this notion. One article I read about WP7 was that the OS is not a good choice for power users. Android was looking more and more attractive to me. To me, it carries on the spirit of Windows Mobile in terms of customization. Things are not accessed quite the same way as Windows Mobile (there is no registry), but there is still tons of customizations, mods, and hacks available.
Being the owner of the Tilt (Kaiser) and Tilt2 (Touch Pro 2, Rhodium), I’ve become a big HTC fan, and wanted something similar, with a hardware keyboard. The Desire Z has a very similar form factor to the Rhodium, with a hardware keyboard, nearly the same screen size, and similar dimensions. I found out that Bell Canada released the HTC Desire Z in November, with 3G bands compatible with ATT's network. I decided to take the plunge. Not an easy pill to swallow, as an unlocked, unsubsidized device like this goes for a premium price of around $600 (and obviously not for everyone). But what the heck, its a been a good year, and I decided to get myself a Christmas gift. Of course, if you are in Canada, Europe, or on T-Mobile, you have access to specific versions for those locations and carriers at a much better price.
Let me tell you guys, this device is amazing. The build quality is excellent, the phone feels very high end, with most of the body being a gorgeous brushed aluminum, accented with some slightly grippy/rubbery “soft touch” plastic (also nice looking, and does not cheapen the appearance). The feel of the phone is much nicer, and seems more sturdy then the Rhodium.
The camera is 5MP with a LED flash, and yields somewhat better photos than the Rhodium. The screen is gorgeous. While the iPhone “Retina” and Samsung AMOLED displays get all the hype, the super LCD screen on the Desire Z is still very nice. Direct comparisons I have read rate it only slightly below the quality of the iPhone or Galaxy S displays. Touch response is excellent, and registers multi-touch very well.
Much has been said about this phone’s unique “Z Hinge”. See the Engadget review, if you aren't familiar with the Z-hinge: http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/25/htc-desire-z-review/
Some have complained about the phone not staying firmly enough in the keyboard open or closed position, or have expressed concerns of the durability of the hinge. Personally, I like the hinge and how it is designed to open easily with the flick of your thumb. But if you’re in doubt, you might want to play around with it in person before committing to buying the phone.
The keyboard itself is very good. But strangely, not quite as nice as the one on the Touch Pro 2. The the keys are slightly smaller (and one less row of keys), and do not have quite as much “travel” when pressing the keys. It feels like a slight step backward from the Rhodium, but still one of the best keyboards around. Having come from the ATT version of the Rhodium (which replaced the row of numbers with random symbols and punctuations), the missing 4th row of keys is not a big deal. But owners of other Rhodium variants will no doubt miss the number-dedicated row of keys.
Another piece of hardware that is strangely not as good as the Rhodium is the speaker. The speaker on the Desire Z is not quite a loud as on the Rhodium, but the difference is fairly minor, and most people will probably overlook this. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a welcome addition, and good riddance to adapters and special headphones that were needed on the Rhodium (at least the GSM version).
At the time of the phone’s release, this was one of the fastest Android phones available (although there is a new generation of dual core Snapdragons coming soon). Don’t be fooled by the fact that the CPU is clocked at 800 MHz. This is a newer generation of Snapdragon than the 1 GHz ones found on phones such as Nexus One and the EVO, with a different fab process and faster GPU also. The Desire Z benchmarks faster than those phones, as well as the Galaxy S, Droid X, and others. The CPU can also be easily overclocked to 1 GHz without over-volting and affecting battery lift; and much higher than that with over-volting.
Battery life seems somewhat shorter on the Desire Z compared to the Rhodium. I was often able to get 2-3 days on a change on my old Tilt2. On the Desire Z, I usually have to charge every night. I can maybe get through a day and a half; but at least a day with all but the heaviest usage. And to be honest, I’m using the phone much more than I did my old Rhodium, so that is a factor as well.
I've played around with Project Android on my trusty old Tilt2, so Android is not completely new to me. It took me a bit getting accustomed to where some things are located, but that is true with switching to any new phone OS. The OS is overall pretty user friendly. It just takes a little while to dedicate to memory where some settings and other things are located. And there is certainly a learning curve once you are ready for customizing/modifying. There is lots of new terminology, process, and tools to learn if you want to “root” (gain super user rights to access system files) and flash a custom ROM, or do other system modifications.
Knocks on Android for not being as "smooth" as the iPhone seem largely unfounded to me. The Desire Z is super smooth, and of course has tons of customization and functionality that the iPhone will never have. And if you coming from Windows Mobile, you are going to be blown away by the smoothness and stability of the OS. The only real performance weakness I’ve seen so far is switching from portrait to landscape on the homescreen, particularly when you have lots of widgets loaded.
Using the phone is a pleasure. Browser rendering is fast, with the stock browser working very well, and Flash enabled. I’ve been previously in denial that capacity touchscreens are a good thing, but multi-touch pinch-to-zoom really does make browsing a joy. Text selection (such as for cut/paste) is aided by a zoom feature that activates with a long touch on text, and also by the optical trackpad (which allows moving the cursor by single characters).
I already keep my contacts, email, and calendar on Google. So the Google integration is awesome for me. I just entered my Google login and password, and it synched all that stuff in a couple minutes. If you are not a Google user, things might be slightly annoying, as the OS will try to steer you toward creating a Google login. Google Navigation is built-in, and will give you point-to -point directions, with audio cues, and first person perspective. It works better than the tools on Windows Mobile such as Google Maps and Bing. It works so well, in fact, that I've often been using Google Nav instead of my Garmin Nuvi GPS unit in the car.
I knew moving to Android would open up a lot of software options, and in this I was not disappointed. There are tons of useful applications and games on the Android Market, and the list is constantly growing. Software developers have embraced Android, which is a refreshing change coming from Windows Mobile. Yes, there is a ton of fluff and junk in the Android Market. But most of the major applications you can think of have a quality Android version.
I’m not a developer. So I can’t comments on the development potential of this device and Android versus Windows Mobile. But so far there is pretty good developer support on the Desire Z. And many have claimed that developers will support this phone for a long time, as they seem to favor devices with a hardware keyboard. There are several stable custom Froyo (Android 2.2) ROMs available, including Sense and non-Sense options, as well as CyanogenMod (a popular and highly customized Android ROM). Gingerbread (Android 2.3, the latest version, just released) ROMs are in the works, with alpha/beta versions already available for testing. Personally, the stock ROM has been so stable and usable for me, I haven’t really been that tempted to flash a custom ROM yet, versus a Windows Phone, where a custom ROM is virtually a necessity.
I’ve babbled on for much too long. In short, if you are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium to something with a similar form factor, the Desire Z is highly recommended. Here’s a quick summary of the Desire Z versus my old Rhodium:
Pros
OS is light years ahead of Windows Mobile (smooth, stable, fast)
Awesome build quality, with a sturdy feel
Better display
3.5 mm headphone jack
Great selection of quality applications
Slightly better camera (5MP) with LED flash
Cons
Keyboard not quite as good
Speaker not quite as good (minor)
Shorter battery life
Z Hinge durability may be an issue
P.S.: If you like the review, please click the "Thanks" button below!

I really appreciated reading this review. I'm a Tilt 2 user, that hasn't found anything new out there to make me want to give up my Rhodium and I have the same feelings regarding Windows 7, so I'm very hesitant to give it a try. Android is completely new to me, but from what I've read, it seems like the natural progression for those of us on Windows Mobile.
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Thanks again for posting this. I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this device.
Have fun!
Debbie

Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?

DebbieNY13 said:
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having finally lost iPhone exclusivity, AT&T seems to be starting to release some decent Android devices, such as the HTC Inspire (Desire HD variant). I'm skeptical they would release the Desire Z, but maybe they will release a future HTC device with a QWERTY keyboard. One can only hope.
If the keyboard is not an absolute requirement, the Inspire looks like a very nice phone. Larger display than the Desire Z, 1GHz processor (faster then the Z), and a slightly better camera. I've actually been finding myself using Swype more and more, and the keyboard less and less. So that has me rethinking the whole QWERTY keyboard thing, a little bit. Although I still use it from time to time for longer texts and emails.
BTW, if you like the review, please click the "Thank you" button!

Jackos said:
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're very welcome.
For me, spending the money was worth it. It was a lot of money to spend on a phone, but I absolutely love it. I tried to stick with WM as long as I could. But everything just works so much better on the Desire Z. I knew it would be a big improvement, but all my expectations were exceeded.
If you are in a market where your carrier offers this phone for a subsidized price, its a no-brainer.

Very nicely written
I have a TP2 now, also considering the Desire Z since it has a (rare these days) hardware keyboard.
Seeing how the DZ performs (especially when overclocked, wow!) does make me feel quite confident it's somewhat future-proof performance wise.
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
When my contract expires next month I can get a free DZ if I extend my contract.
I'll go to the T-Mobile store tomorrow and see if I can play around with one

ericino said:
Very nicely written
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I was finding myself using the tilt feature on the TP2 less and less. Lots of times, I found it easier to just slide the phone open, write a quick text, then close it quickly, without having to mess with tilting the screen up and down. But of course, this is a personal preference.
The only times I've been missing the tilt screen is while watching video. With the TP2, I could tilt the screen up, then place the phone down on a table to watch. HTC should have added a kickstand, like on the Desire HD. It would have been a very easy to add, and super useful.

Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?

ronh said:
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a paid Android app called Copilot, which is supposed to be pretty good, and does what you want. But I haven't personally used it. There are others, as well.
Also, the Euro version of the Desire Z has a feature of the "new" Sense called HTC Locations, which has a 30-day free trial, than once you pay the monthly fee or buy a lifetime license, you can navigate using maps downloaded to the SD card. Unfortunately, Locations and the Car Panel were removed in the Bell Canada version of the DZ. Likewise, the T-Mobile G2 does not have it, as it is Sense-free. But the feature can be obtained by flashing the stock Euro ROM to either the Bell DZ or the G2. I haven't done this, and I have no idea how well Locations works in the US. But comments by DZ users in the UK and Europe indicate they seem to like it.

i too miss my tilt 2, especially the tilts sliding kb. thats why i come back to these boards every now and again.
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
almost anything i could do with wm i cant do with android only better. android is way more reliable and the tilt2 was a touch underpowered.
as soon as someone comes out with a 4.3inch lcd with a sliding kb that will be my next phone
off topic, don't believe the hype about the evo battery being weak, i get 24-40 hrs per charge, average is probably around 30 hrs and that's with 2 weather apps, face book, 4 emails accounts and Google searches off and on all day with gps location and blue tooth on. i also have a stock rom, although its rooted.
btw tc excellent read.
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.

Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....

F2504x4 said:
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was specifically asked for a comparison between the Touch Pro 2 and the Desire Z; for TP2 owners who may be interested in upgrading. If it was a straight up review of the DZ only, and no mention of the TP2, I would agree with you. But as you can see from reading my review, I make ample comparisons and references to the TP2, so I believe its appropriate here. The DZ is also a very logical upgrade from the TP2 versus just about every other phone on the market, due to its very similar form factor and same manufacturer.
You said I "have quite a few threads" about the DZ. But this is the only thread I started. I posted a reference to this review on 2 other threads started by others. Those threads were started by users looking for an upgrade similar to the TP2, so that actually reinforces my decision that this forum is the correct location for the review/comparison.
I did debate it for a while (of where to post), and your comment is not unreasonable. But I didn't see the Desire Z the best place to post it. The huge majority of the users on the Desire Z/Vision forum already own the phone, and they don't need to see a review for it. If the moderators don't agree with my judgment call, they can move the thread.
And you linked to the forum for the Desire, not the Desire Z. They are completely different phones.

Considering what HTC 7 Pro has become, looks like the Desire Z is the only one phone coming from HTC to replace the TP2. What a pity!
I'll wait until something new comes out to replace my PPC. TP2 still does a great job for me.
Thanks again for the review.

potna said:
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It true, with Swype, I actually find myself using the screen keyboard much more than I would have thought. In fact, for my next phone I may seriously consider one without a hardware keyboard . . . maybe. But I personally can't stand typing on-screen without Swype.
potna said:
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had that same thought about having a nav program that doesn't need a data connection, so I have a backup in case I am in an area with dodgy coverage, or for foreign use. I might check out something like Copilot, which is only $5 for the US maps (and interestingly $80 for Europe!).

I would like to thank you also for the comparison and ask you about what I haven't read elsewhere.
Is there ability for teleconferencing inDesire Z?
Besides the mentioned problem with the DZ's speaker there were a few times that the feature was (even more than welcome) life-saving while using my rhodium. That, and the Excel files editing.
Also, (a "pro-" feature, not mentioned elsewhere) what about video out?
Am I asking for too much?

Redpoint:
I too have made the upgrade, from TP2 to G2 (Desire Z). Your findings mirror mine almost exactly.
Just in case any one is curious, I'll add my 2 pence.
I still kind of miss the resistive touch screen (think gloves or stylus for precision), but the cap screen is über responsive, and as you said, multi touch is pretty sweet.
I do not miss the complete lack of development of applications for WM. At least at any corporate or popular apps level.
I do miss the great MS Office and Outlook integration. Android does play nice with Exchange, though.
FWIW: Tmo G2's do have a Office compatible suite that should work for docs and xls, but I didn't get a chance to use it. I flashed to a new ROM too fast
I still have the TP2, and will likely futz with it some more, but the G2/DZ is a worthy successor.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

calrification on pro2 vs DZ
Sir/s,
i would like to know if DZ has the following functionalities:
1. exchange sync of email, calendar and contacts.
2. when you download exchange email, is it in html format?
3. can DZ record 2 way voice call? (not via speakerphone)
Above are the features that im frequently using on pro2.