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Now that I have a Galaxy Nexus and I'm looking threw to see what's out there to flash. I get to my favorite community here and find out that for whatever reason GSM and LTE models are mixed together in one big cluster f**k that can potentially brick my phone if I don't read the fine print. This is insanely dumb, it poses a potential risk for me even tho I feel I'm a seasoned veteran of the Android flashing community, and to anyone that is completely new to this and doesn't understand the subtle differences of CDMA and GSM. So here I am typing this out trying my damnedest to wrap my mind around WHY XDA DOESN'T CREATE SUB FORUMS FOR EACH TYPE. A lot of other sites do, and it makes the search 1000000x easier to navigate.
So please could some moderator explain to me the reasoning behind having one giant pool of ROMS and mods that are completely different from one another? Is it really that hard to create a sub forum to take you to either the CDMA or GSM version?
I'd like to get some feed back here or am I the only one that is slightly frustrated about this? I mean its completely unorganized and the whole forum just feels really sloppy already.
You're not the first to mention this and, if you searched (cause you're a vet with 47 posts), you'd know the Mods are looking into it
But in essence I agree, or you just hope the threads are labelled correctly (LTE/GSM)
Dude if you used XDA as much as you say you do then you would have done a search on this topic and realized that there are already 2 threads in the last week on this subject.
Mods can we please merge all "Separate GSM/LTE forums" posts.
yeah I did try searching for it, thanks for the most obvious response
but ya know what its hard to find something when I don't know what to call it....
you'll notice that I never used the word separate which is the key word I was missing
so thanks for the ****-ish way you gave me that info it was slightly helpful i guess...
Just for the record I agree with the op. However I'm not too worried about it. This site has given me so much and asked for very little in return. I'm just greatful to have access to all this great info.
robby88 said:
yeah I did try searching for it, thanks for the most obvious response
but ya know what its hard to find something when I don't know what to call it....
you'll notice that I never used the word separate which is the key word I was missing
so thanks for the ****-ish way you gave me that info it was slightly helpful i guess...
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Some veteran. You really can't just look at the title of the thread to see if it says "LTE" or not? The only important threads that should be looked through are on the first two or three pages. Not that hard.
If you seriously brick your phone because you can't figure out whether something is LTE or GSM, you are a bit slow IMO. So far we only have one page of relevant ROMS and mods in dev section and you're already complaining about having trouble finding things when search isn't even necessary. Come on...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
It's because this site is a joke. There are so many things wrong with the way XDA structures and manages these forums. Look at rootzwiki...or even droid forums. The mods actually do their jobs there and make it EASIER for devs to post their work and manage their users problems by preventing/deleting/combining duplicate threads. Both of those forums even provide sub-forums for popular devs to let them manage it as well. And a simple thing like separating the LTE and GSM versions into their own forum was a non-issue at rootzwiki...yet here at XDA it seems we're asking the admins to split the atom.
That's why devs are/have moved to rootzwiki to post their work. Sure they'll copy and paste their topics over here eventually, but the difference is that if you want your post to be read by someone at the developer level, you're probably at the wrong forum. You should have seen the XDA droid bionic forums before everyone packed up and went onto rootz...LOL, it was like the wild west.
mb02 said:
Some veteran. You really can't just look at the title of the thread to see if it says "LTE" or not? The only important threads that should be looked through are on the first two or three pages. Not that hard.
If you seriously brick your phone because you can't figure out whether something is LTE or GSM, you are a bit slow IMO. So far we only have one page of relevant ROMS and mods in dev section and you're already complaining about having trouble finding things when search isn't even necessary. Come on...
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I wasn't talking about myself jackass, there are tons of people out there that have never flashed a phone before and not knowing the difference between GSM and CDMA can be a confusing concept for most. So thanks for trying to make me out to be the jackass when you've accomplished that all on your own.
I'm not having trouble finding anything considering there are only 2-3 ROMs for LTE, but in a month there's going to be 50 pages of crap to sift threw. So that's the problem I see, and the fact that if it was just broken down in to 2 different sub forums from the start would of been something very simple and I just don't see why it wasn't/hasn't been done.
quentin0 said:
It's because this site is a joke. There are so many things wrong with the way XDA structures and manages these forums. Look at rootzwiki...or even droid forums. The mods actually do their jobs there and make it EASIER for devs to post their work and manage their users problems by preventing/deleting/combining duplicate threads. Both of those forums even provide sub-forums for popular devs to let them manage it as well. And a simple thing like separating the LTE and GSM versions into their own forum was a non-issue at rootzwiki...yet here at XDA it seems we're asking the admins to split the atom.
That's why devs are/have moved to rootzwiki to post their work. Sure they'll copy and paste their topics over here eventually, but the difference is that if you want your post to be read by someone at the developer level, you're probably at the wrong forum. You should have seen the XDA droid bionic forums before everyone packed up and went onto rootz...LOL, it was like the wild west.
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It may be disorganized and full of duplicate threads, but it is an excellent resource. I have been here since Windows mobile 6, The G1, and a whole slew in android phones... and it is the same story. The devs move to some other site. You get a new phone and everyone comes back to XDA. If more people kept their mouth shut the site would be easier to navigate. I could care less, as I mostly lurk and find what I am looking for. No need to comment in every thread, because it probably wouldn't contribute much.
XDA is a great resource, if you don't like it go to another site and browse their forums.
axion68 said:
It may be disorganized and full of duplicate threads, but it is an excellent resource. I have been here since Windows mobile 6, The G1, and a whole slew in android phones... and it is the same story. The devs move to some other site. You get a new phone and everyone comes back to XDA. If more people kept their mouth shut the site would be easier to navigate. I could care less, as I mostly lurk and find what I am looking for. No need to comment in every thread, because it probably wouldn't contribute much.
XDA is a great resource, if you don't like it go to another site and browse their forums.
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I completely agree, I started flashing my first droid and found everything I needed right here with super helpful devs and a mostly wonderful community that would aid you. I personally don't care what gets posted in General though. I think only dev's should be able to post in the development forum to keep things to a minimum, but if a topic needs to be brought up multiple times to get it done then so be it. That's how things get done if a topic is shoved back into the darkness then it needs to be brought to light over and over til something gets done.
I agree totally, I started using rootz instead because they seperated the 2 devices. Also it should be GSM or CDMA. LTE is GSM. Lots of confusion can happen here.
Is it just me or shouldn't be mandatory to have the dates entered in the titles of threads in the development sections? I know it's mandatory throughout many other device forums, I'm not sure why it isn't on this one, and others that I've seen. I believe is makes everything much easier to follow rather than a sling of rom names and / or version numbers, etc.
I'm on the fence on this because I'm so appreciative of the Devs who support the T989 with quality Roms.
On one hand I think they should run their threads however they like with reason but on the other it would make keeping up with development a whole lot easier.
I remember when the ICS leak dropped I was all kinds of confused (still am a little) on their update frequencies. This made it a bit more difficult to pinpoint a Devs work ethic (which I factor in as well as quality) because it was untimely coupled with posts from anybody bumping threads up for any reason.
M&S has one of the best titles to his threads because he updates the date, and Rom version with titles so I can't miss his from a mile away.
With that said it would be nice to have dates (especially for those who don't frequent XDA daily) or in the least change the Rom versions in the title.
I don't mind searching but it would be quicker/efficient for dates.
Can you imagine when TMob drops the official ICS...
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
eugene373 said:
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
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I don't mind searching a bit to see an OP's timestamp edits.
However, the dates imo help with breaking down a Rom's status quicker by scrolling the forum threads by title without much digging than that.
I think the dates would help those who aren't on XDA much because they can catch up quicker on Rom changes.
Also, I think it's easier for those use the XDA app primarily because (as far as I've searched) it doesn't readily show timestamps for edits in OPs.
I don't view titling threads with dates as increasing development speeds just readily available info. I hope others don't as well, cause great things come over time
The devs don't do enough already...lets add more BS. Dl
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
you don't like version number but you want dates. that does not make sense. moving forward a date, is the same as moving up a version number.
Why do all the regular users here keep thinking they know how the show should be run for us devs. We're doing our part for you guys, just do yours and deal with our threads they way we choose to set them up.
-Mr. X- said:
you don't like version number but you want dates. that does not make sense. moving forward a date, is the same as moving up a version number.
Why do all the regular users here keep thinking they know how the show should be run for us devs. We're doing our part for you guys, just do yours and deal with our threads they way we choose to set them up.
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I'm especially amused by this considering the hell storm when the mods tried regulating how regular users post in dev threads
eugene373 said:
Not sure how Dates will help? Revision is just the same, forcing a Date to be Posted wont make the Revision any newer...
this is imo that is, most times you can just check the last time the posted was edited to know when it was last updated.
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the only difference between last modified on the op and a date in the title is that last modified could be fixing a typo or something. imo, revision number is just as good, but one or the other is/should be necessary because just checking the thread title is easy (i.e. i'm lazy). though, some revision numbers are inconsistent. and a date usually makes it easy to tell if something is based off the newest leak or not (which THAT should be mandatory: the android version number and the build/leak it's based off cause i've seen a bunch of roms missing that basic info in the op).
Imposing too many rules on devs who provide a free service is a bad idea. Leave things the way they are.
I vote no.
I think it should be mandatory for users to open a thread and read the op and changelog before asking if there was an update. Derp.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
suggesting rules on someone who is giving away something for free ......
well im sure you can get my drift.
be thankful, and do a little more reading.
To add with previous comment. There is no need to cater to people who want to flash a ROM without reading OP. ROM Manager tried to do this and all that ended up happening is people bricking their device because they got used to flashing without reading and as soon as a International s2 ROM was accidently posted in t989 rom section you had people bricking.
I vote no, the developers can choose to post and manage their threads how they see fit....besides...its not that hard to open up the thread and look at the bottom of the OP and see the last time it was updated...
Yes, yes and yes. Why is it a big deal to let people know by looking at a thread title when it was updated? Why make someone open a thread and search for when it was revised? If you are putting a revision number in there, why not a date? It is not so much imposing a rule as it is a valid suggestion to help the end user. Is it really that big of a request that someone would stop developing because they were asked to put a date in the title? Getting real tired of hearing all the crying about devs doing this for free as well. If you are going to post work on a forum you are going to get requests, you may get criticism, you will definitely get repeat questions and people that have no clue. Yes it is free, and it is on your own time and all that, but no one is forcing anyone to come here either.
I do appreciate the work that is done here, I would probably still be using a cry phone if it wasn't for this community and having the ability to customize my device. So thank you to all the devs that do this because they enjoy doing it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Micronads said:
Yes, yes and yes. Why is it a big deal to let people know by looking at a thread title when it was updated? Why make someone open a thread and search for when it was revised? If you are putting a revision number in there, why not a date? It is not so much imposing a rule as it is a valid suggestion to help the end user. Is it really that big of a request that someone would stop developing because they were asked to put a date in the title? Getting real tired of hearing all the crying about devs doing this for free as well. If you are going to post work on a forum you are going to get requests, you may get criticism, you will definitely get repeat questions and people that have no clue. Yes it is free, and it is on your own time and all that, but no one is forcing anyone to come here either.
I do appreciate the work that is done here, I would probably still be using a cry phone if it wasn't for this community and having the ability to customize my device. So thank you to all the devs that do this because they enjoy doing it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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Appreciate the honesty as opposed to voting one way and posting another.
On the other hand I do think its funny but not unexpected that people think it is asking too much to ask people to posts only dev related information in dev topics or not post duplicate questions (ie read before posting) but its not too much to ask for a new rule on devs.
Gimme gimme gimme some more.
jim93 said:
I'm especially amused by this considering the hell storm when the mods tried regulating how regular users post in dev threads
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posting trash in dev threads and not being arsed to read thread edit dates and track version numbers of development that interests you are two different things, but both bad habits that users could possess
the fact that every dev posts a change log just makes this suggest even more ridiculous.
Keep micromanaging the devs to death and they will just go elsewhere. It is the truth.
-Mr. X- said:
posting trash in dev threads and not being arsed to read thread edit dates and track version numbers of development that interests you are two different things, but both bad habits that users could possess
the fact that every dev posts a change log just makes this suggest even more ridiculous.
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If the last few weeks have proven anything it is that people dont see those things as bad habits but things to be proud of.
After further deliberation I vote: No
To me Roms/Kernels/etc are like cars/engines/etc. if one is given either for free and it has been proven worldwide that it wont hurt one who uses it...
Wouldn't the model info be enough... I believe so.
Eugene's right, it's not like dates make it fresher.
In fact I think threads without it gives the Rom/Kernel/etc. timelessness.
I love Android/T989 forums.
Its where questions/comments are met with... passion.
Those IOS forums have no clue what they're missing out on. lol
People seem to forget that xda is a knowledge sharing site and those that share shouldn't be slapped with stupid rules and regulations on how they choose to title their work. My 2 cents.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA
So since I haven't seen this yet as having been put together (or even that it is being worked on), I thought I'd toss this out there - anyone know if someone is working on notification drawer widget buttons (as in what the CM roms have) specifically for Jellybean roms? I know one person asked about this in another thread, and the only suggestion that was mentioned was using the app "Notification Toggle". However I've tried this and compared to its built-in CM counterpart, quite frankly it sucks, and it requires that an icon be stuck in the status bar at all times.
Anyways, as I said I hadn't seen or noticed that Paul O'Brien was going to try to work this into the Modaco JB rom, or if anyone else on here was currently trying to put this mod together. I had been running that rom for the past few days, but because of the lack of notification widget buttons (and a few other things, like broken pinch-to-zoom on Dolphin, Lightflow incompatibility, etc) I'm back to CM9 nightlies.
Cheers!
Hey thanks a lot to the mod who moved my thread. I posted it in the development section because it is specifically a DEVELOPMENT/MOD REQUEST, nothing "general" about this. I was initially going to pop into one of the existing mod threads and bring up this idea there, but I thought it wouldn't be appropriate as it might not exactly be on-topic in those threads, and that this would be better on its own. At any rate it apparently it made just a little too much sense for my thread to have been posted in an area where the most appropriate parties (i.e., developers) would have the absolute best chance at seeing it, discussing it, and responding to it. Again, thanks. Might as well have just moved it to the HTC One X forum. :good: :highfive: :good:
joeski27 said:
Hey thanks a lot to the mod who moved my thread. I posted it in the development section because it is specifically a DEVELOPMENT/MOD REQUEST, nothing "general" about this. I was initially going to pop into one of the existing mod threads and bring up this idea there, but I thought it wouldn't be appropriate as it might not exactly be on-topic in those threads, and that this would be better on its own. At any rate it apparently it made just a little too much sense for my thread to have been posted in an area where the most appropriate parties (i.e., developers) would have the absolute best chance at seeing it, discussing it, and responding to it. Again, thanks. Might as well have just moved it to the HTC One X forum. :good: :highfive: :good:
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Did you develop something? Nope? Then don't post it in developer. Not for requests. That would be general or q&a
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
Somairotevoli said:
Did you develop something? Nope? Then don't post it in developer. Not for requests. That would be general or q&a
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
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Well then apparently I shouldn't have used the word "Request", because I should have known better that people get so anal about these kinds of things here. I've said it many times before, its this kind of hair splitting crap that drives so many people away from forums like this, or at the very least prevents them from posting or otherwise contributing to. Truly a shame. And I could see if I just posted some really basic, general comment in there, because obviously that wouldn't belong.
But furthermore, it makes me laugh at how easily my entire point managed to elude you. And my point is this: if you were heading to Home Depot and knew you needed a specific plumbing part for your bathroom sink, would you waste your time asking questions in the "general" customer service area, or would you head directly to the plumbing department and ask the specialist there to help you find the product (or more relevant to my particular situation, to suggest that they carry the product if they don't already)? I'm just curious, which strategy would most likely yield the quickest, most efficient, and most relevant outcome? I know what I would/will do. Unbelievable, just really blows me away. I'm out. :silly::silly:
I have a feeling that we probably won't see this until the source code is released. It makes modding much easier. Should only be a couple weeks.
Accord281 said:
I have a feeling that we probably won't see this until the source code is released. It makes modding much easier. Should only be a couple weeks.
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i asked adrynalyne if he would do it, and he said "not until source is released"
he made me a sad panda with that.
joeski27 said:
Well then apparently I shouldn't have used the word "Request", because I should have known better that people get so anal about these kinds of things here. I've said it many times before, its this kind of hair splitting crap that drives so many people away from forums like this, or at the very least prevents them from posting or otherwise contributing to. Truly a shame. And I could see if I just posted some really basic, general comment in there, because obviously that wouldn't belong.
But furthermore, it makes me laugh at how easily my entire point managed to elude you. And my point is this: if you were heading to Home Depot and knew you needed a specific plumbing part for your bathroom sink, would you waste your time asking questions in the "general" customer service area, or would you head directly to the plumbing department and ask the specialist there to help you find the product (or more relevant to my particular situation, to suggest that they carry the product if they don't already)? I'm just curious, which strategy would most likely yield the quickest, most efficient, and most relevant outcome? I know what I would/will do. Unbelievable, just really blows me away. I'm out. :silly::silly:
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With this strategy the development section would be littered with "request threads." Unless you developed/are developing something, don't post in that forum. These are the forum rules - if you don't like them, you are welcome to petition the site administrator.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
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Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
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I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
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I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
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Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
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This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
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I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'll get straight to the point.
The nature of our Development Forums on XDA have changed dramatically since the G1 days and unfortunatly its a change for the worst, its hitting in my opinion rock bottom with less and less people willing to contribute. Back when Android was born and XDA opened its doors to us G1 users we were all there for one reason. To LEARN!
The thirst for knowledge and understanding was exciting and thrilling, being the first to discover something new and letting it be free and available to all who wanted, to strive to break down the barriers that our providers put before us and set us all free! It was to be a complete geek and openly honest a complete rush for me and all of us.
Just writing about it sends a shiver down my spine I so enjoyed it all back then. But todays culture seems to be one of spoon feeding information to people who have no idea what they actually have in there hands, and to be frank would look at me cross eyed if I told them to use terminal emulator to enter a command! Now dont get me wrong I'm no linux expert I'm not even a beginner but I took time to learn terminal commands for Android to help further our community by not asking dumb questions and knowing what a search engine was!
So for my proposal and discussion as a community is.....
Should we allow the developers to HAVE the Developement forums?
We currently have General forums with support threads so basically if your not a developer you simply can't post in there. Lets give the devs somewhere they can talk with other devs and concentrate solely on development and not reading 15,000,000 pages of posts like 'The rom didn't work its rubbish' and replying back to all these people to try and gain some peace to work.
Well I have had my say and I look forward to some serious intelligent debate on this.
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
WCCobra said:
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
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Easy. Can you build a rom? Do you know your arse from your elbow? And have you heard of google?
If you answer Yes to all three you're probably a dev.
No seriously you are perfectly correct and I understand what you are saying but again why couldn't we have that same discussion/help/suggestion here? Its basically the same and the devs can check in whenever they like as they already have to in their development threads now. We have help threads here that are basically unused because they are cluttering up the devs thread instead. We need to look at encouranging devs to stay and this to me gives them that and a lot more would be achieved I feel.
Perhaps a way for devs to have a open or closed thread.
Like asylum rom. There is discussion thread and a development thread.
Maybe an option to allow only recognised developers or senior members in a thread.
I agree junior members (noobs) are a pain in the ass.
I tought myself mostly by reading threads and figuring things out.... Why can't they? I don't know... I try to play nice though sometimes the stupidity bassles me.
A blacklist option or a "kick ban from thread" option for the dev. If someone is anoying to other members or just clutters the thread this would be a nice implementation for a dev.
Send from my Omega/perseus powered SGN2
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
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God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
I'm no dev. I'm far from it. But I can totally agree with what you say about it being different from the g1 days. I too get a little... Choked up...
I didn't even know what adb ment, let alone how to work it. Took me hours just to figure out and set up.
After rooting and handling updates for all my buddies phones plus my own... I'm a little more comfy. But I can't build a ROM.
There definatley a problem with people not reading. I mean... "Does cam work on this ROM?" Its answered on every page. I've seen it answered 3 posts before the question was asked.
Xda-Etiquette got lost somewhere along the way. Some things are too advanced for new android users. If it was, I didn't touch. New members don't think like that.
Read read read. Post in general or q&a. Don't clutter up dev threads with "thanks" and "help... I brick!".
Learn what a brick is. Lol.You don't have to be the first with s-off when you don't even know what it means. Wait til it becomes easier. Don't lose a device cuz you want to be on the cutting edge but don't even know what fastboot means.
Bs in the other topics. When you click that "android development" button, keep your mouth shut and read. Nothing most of the xda users, myself included, can say would be productive and helpful to devs.
And to end... I still <3 xda.
Sent from my One S using xda app-developers app
DisruptiveMind said:
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
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Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
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Once again they can! They just do it in here instead when the devs need a laugh. All help and dumb questions can be answered here in the General Forum meaning people would actually be more likely to read at least something of the first post in the Development Forum because its not as daunting knowing there is another 100 pages of posts to read following it.
Did you remember to fastboot flash the boot.img?
Thx for this thread, it always helps to discuss issues if they occur. In any case there is no need for closed dev threads @ XDA, since this would lead to believe we are only developing for our own pleasure. Reality is we all enjoy to push the envelope and share it with other guys in the forum. We all need and want feedback, so it`s not a problem XDA can solve.
All we can do is try to educate users, that we are happy to help them as long as they try to search for answers first either in the thread, on XDA or Google. Users in dev thread need also understand the following:
All custom ROM`s have bugs (so do stock ROM`s)
Not all these bugs are ROM related, in many cases the problem sits in front of the device.
If it`s a real bug, just report it, but don`t be demanding. Most of us just publish stuff here for pure pleasure of sharing and cause we are proud, that we could enhance the user experience with new features.
Users really need to understand, that we don`t have an obligation to update stuff in a certain time frame. We do that in our free time and it`s just a hobby.
Users should especially behave in a friendly manner and be respectful with everyone in the threads.
So bottom line - don`t expect XDA to solve the issues, we as a community must learn to respect each other and understand there`s more important stuff in life then a phone.
Edit: Maybe except the new ONE :laugh::angel::silly:
Well again I find myself saying all that can be done here, I never once said I wanted the Development thread closing or to create a nature of 'building for themselves' we could all still have access and well would need it to download roms so I don't understand where you are coming from on that point. Why do we have a support thread in General if the support is offered in the roms thread?
And to be honest as we need to be I have seen you yourself getting annoyed by the questions that pop up time and time again as has many other devs leading to yet more and more posts about ego wars and the tiredness of answering the same thing again and again and again. Simply let that stuff stay in here otherwise not only is General but Q&A forums seem to be somewhat pointless as no matter how hard you try being nice about it users will never learn. A place where real Developers can go and know the community takes care of the 'silly' stuff, as a developer yourself I would assume you would appreciate not having to spend so much time reading all the pointless posts that appear. You say rightly that you do this as a hobby and in your free time so wouldn't it be better if you knew you had somewhere to get away from it so to speak and spend that time doing work on your rom/s?
The stupid questions are just plain laziness. I'm basically a noob, this is my first android phone and I just got it last October. I can't remember even asking any questions, maybe as couple, literally. I'm usually the one helping out people who have been using android longer than me. In October, I remember having to look up what a kernel even was. Lol. So, yeah, people just have you seriously just read more, but don't just follow steps, try to understand what you are actually doing. Just following steps, you won't learn nothing.
HTC_One_S | Xparent_ICS_Blue_Tapatalk 1.06_Hboot_Downgrade | Root_Box | Bubba_Kernel_2.8b | S-OFF
I don't think things will ever change. There are always going to be lazy, entitled noobs who want to be spoon fed. Changing that I think would be a losing battle. I'm not saying we should encourage them, but fighting and flaming simply won't ever change things. I think we should simply continue helping those who've shown they have no problem making the effort to help themselves and ignore the ones who want everything handed to them.