Develop Bugs

L900 review - Nokia Lumia 900

Great vs. review from pocketnow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cAsprVPIRc

Its a fair commentary. I love how all the android fanboys pile on and post that its all about specs and that android wins and everyone will buy android because specs are all that matter.
I was in that boat for years and then I grew up and realized I just wanted my phone to work well, do what I ask of it and what it should do without crashing, flaking out, acting up, freezin and/or running out of memory and rebooting itself.

hx4700 Killer said:
Its a fair commentary. I love hall all the android fanboys pile on and post that its all about specs and that android wins and everyone will buy android because specs are all that matter.
I was in that boat for years and then I grew up and realized I just wanted my phone to work well, do what I ask of it and what it should do without crashing, flaking out, acting up, freezin and/or running out of memory and rebooting itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, my thoughts exactly. I've stopped looking at most reviews now, they are not useful. But your words about spec, rings a bell.
I bought the 900, my son bought the One-s. He replaced his 1 yr old sensation that no longer worked. In the same timeframe, he has had to reset his phone several times because of lost functionality. The 900, no resets because of issues. I have reset several times, testing button combinations and impact of app combinations, and 1 time because of change of email address.
Modding and rooting to gain functionality no longer seems like an answer to me, because it brings the unintended side effects.

True, if you want a phone that just works but not an iPhone, Windows Phone is the way to go.

nraudigy2 said:
True, if you want a phone that just works but not an iPhone, Windows Phone is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems that way.. credit to Microsoft for that. The apple approach is the way to go.. they retain a huge base of their customers because of that "it just works" perception.

go0gle said:
It seems that way.. credit to Microsoft for that. The apple approach is the way to go.. they retain a huge base of their customers because of that "it just works" perception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In former WM OS's microsoft left it up to the manufacturers to provide the user experience. They just provided the underlying OS.
So we ended up with things like the Sense UI or the plain windows mobile experience. Others tried to make their own interfaces. It seems they want to say the tradeoff is you get ALL the choices and questionable/erratic behavior or NO choices and rock solid performance.
If that were the case the desktop world would have fallen apart years ago.....
I am dissapointed that MS chose to emulate the Apple model of "you will love the precious, it is all things and everything to you" business model.
There has to be a happy medium. I would rather they provide and support it than have to hack my device to get it to do what I want.

hx4700 Killer said:
In former WM OS's microsoft left it up to the manufacturers to provide the user experience. They just provided the underlying OS.
So we ended up with things like the Sense UI or the plain windows mobile experience. Others tried to make their own interfaces. It seems they want to say the tradeoff is you get ALL the choices and questionable/erratic behavior or NO choices and rock solid performance.
If that were the case the desktop world would have fallen apart years ago.....
I am dissapointed that MS chose to emulate the Apple model of "you will love the precious, it is all things and everything to you" business model.
There has to be a happy medium. I would rather they provide and support it than have to hack my device to get it to do what I want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respectfully disagree. That road leads to the Android nightmare, where little works without a hack and responsibility seems to fall on the 3rd party designers like here on xda. I truely believe the android experience is an anomally. Phones are cheaply made, and 'appear' to have little quality control in the OS. 3 high price phones last year, that did not last a year, convinced me there has to be a better way. I should not have to MOD to get what I want.
Sure, I would love a little more configuration on my 900. I'd love space breaks on the home screen. I'd love more color options. But, I'm ok with not having a Sense type interface...or any of the other more customizable interface options. I've seen where hack hack modding can get you. Though some people call it great to be able to hack and get what you want at the moment, I do not believe those people have attached the modding risk with break down in other areas. Thats just my opinion. I believe the android world will collapse in on itself eventually. Again, another opinion.

alodar1 said:
I respectfully disagree. That road leads to the Android nightmare, where little works without a hack and responsibility seems to fall on the 3rd party designers like here on xda. I truely believe the android experience is an anomally. Phones are cheaply made, and 'appear' to have little quality control in the OS. 3 high price phones last year, that did not last a year, convinced me there has to be a better way. I should not have to MOD to get what I want.
Sure, I would love a little more configuration on my 900. I'd love space breaks on the home screen. I'd love more color options. But, I'm ok with not having a Sense type interface...or any of the other more customizable interface options. I've seen where hack hack modding can get you. Though some people call it great to be able to hack and get what you want at the moment, I do not believe those people have attached the modding risk with break down in other areas. Thats just my opinion. I believe the android world will collapse in on itself eventually. Again, another opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying the argument against allowing that kind of customization is that it leads to instability. If that were true PC's would be in the same boat would they not?
What I had proposed in the past was: If you like it the way it is then leave it as is. If you want to mod it up then allow interop unlock and put that person on a "Do not support" list.
However, I suspect they want to protect their brand and image so allowing interop unlock that leads to problems would then lead to bad consumer comments about the platform when in reality it was someone using the device not as intended. It's a tightrope to be sure but I am dissapointed in the lack of choice coming from making my own ROMS
I wish there was a happy medium.

hx4700 Killer said:
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying the argument against allowing that kind of customization is that it leads to instability. If that were true PC's would be in the same boat would they not?
What I had proposed in the past was: If you like it the way it is then leave it as is. If you want to mod it up then allow interop unlock and put that person on a "Do not support" list.
However, I suspect they want to protect their brand and image so allowing interop unlock that leads to problems would then lead to bad consumer comments about the platform when in reality it was someone using the device not as intended. It's a tightrope to be sure but I am dissapointed in the lack of choice coming from making my own ROMS
I wish there was a happy medium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kinda see where you're coming from. I've done the ROM scene for many years...including Windows Mobile. And, I think if you want to be able to do it...then fine. I simply no longer agree that you should share your work with others....maybe thats where the control is lost. The first time I ever flashed a ROM, I was in heaven. The last time I flashed a ROM, I had had enough. In 5 yrs, I went from heaven to hell.
Plus, if Modding was associated with Customization of appearance, I would probably think differently. However, Modding tends to lean towards adding or removing features from a phone. The biggest ones that come to mind are Netflix and Bluetooth. I'm basically in the mind that....if its not included onyour phone, it means it hasn't passed test on that phone. Hacking to make it work will not completely resolve the issue. Something else most likely will break as a result of the modding. OR, the feature is not included because the carrier is in the mind to make money off of that feature. Like it or not, its their right. I'm not of the mind to be accussed, even in an off hand way, of theft.
Most of the modding I see falls into those categories. I want to be able to tether for free. Well...it would be nice. But would I mod something to bypass that restriction. I'm just not sure I'd want to even open that door anymore.
I understand that WP8 has more opportunities for customization. NOt alot...but more than now. We can only hope its enough...for now !!

From what I see everyday.. and I am sure most would agree, when you ask someone about their iPhone, for the most part the response is "it just works man" .. and that is all there is to it, but when you see an android user and ask them the same question.. you don't get that same feeling that they are completely happy with their experience. I've had 5 co-workers switch from HTCs to iPhones in the past 2 months, and all of them are saying how much better the iPhone is...
So, I guess for most people, the lack of customization is not that big of price to pay, when in return you get stability and UX consistency throughout the menu and the 3rd party applications. WinPhone is better than iOS in that regard, for me anyway.. the best thing is to use an android/symbian/iOS device and then pick up a win phone right after.. the icon based UX suddenly feels cluttered and old.. at least that is how i see it. The only icon based UX that can compete with WinPhone is Nokia's Harmattan (swipe UI) but they ditched it for.. who know why.
hx4700 Killer said:
If that were true PC's would be in the same boat would they not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you elaborate on that ? For the most part, the "windows experience" is pretty consistent.. at least from what I've seen over the years. Yes, you do have the option to.. mod it, but very few do. I might be wrong..

Originally Posted by hx4700 Killer<br />
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying the argument against allowing that kind of customization is that it leads to instability. If that were true PC's would be in the same boat would they not?<br />
<br />
What I had proposed in the past was: If you like it the way it is then leave it as is. If you want to mod it up then allow interop unlock and put that person on a "Do not support" list. <br />
<br />
However, I suspect they want to protect their brand and image so allowing interop unlock that leads to problems would then lead to bad consumer comments about the platform when in reality it was someone using the device not as intended. It's a tightrope to be sure but I am dissapointed in the lack of choice coming from making my own ROMS <br />
<br />
I wish there was a happy medium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<br />
<br />
I kinda see where you're coming from. I've done the ROM scene for many years...including Windows Mobile. And, I think if you want to be able to do it...then fine. I simply no longer agree that you should share your work with others....maybe thats where the control is lost. The first time I ever flashed a ROM, I was in heaven. The last time I flashed a ROM, I had had enough. In 5 yrs, I went from heaven to hell. <br />
<br />
Plus, if Modding was associated with Customization of appearance, I would probably think differently. However, Modding tends to lean towards adding or removing features from a phone. The biggest ones that come to mind are Netflix and Bluetooth. I'm basically in the mind that....if its not included onyour phone, it means it hasn't passed test on that phone. Hacking to make it work will not completely resolve the issue. Something else most likely will break as a result of the modding. OR, the feature is not included because the carrier is in the mind to make money off of that feature. Like it or not, its their right. I'm not of the mind to be accussed, even in an off hand way, of theft. <br />
<br />
Most of the modding I see falls into those categories. I want to be able to tether for free. Well...it would be nice. But would I mod something to bypass that restriction. I'm just not sure I'd want to even open that door anymore. <br />
<br />
I understand that WP8 has more opportunities for customization. NOt alot...but more than now. We can only hope its enough...for now !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apps get installed from the market all of the time. Apps "that didn't come with the device"
Mods have been around for years. I usually sell iPhones and Wp7 devices to seniors and old schoolers. Android is another beast. Wp7 good for our old friends with one foot in the grave.
sent from a Android device
I'm always on!

go0gle said:
From what I see everyday.. and I am sure most would agree, when you ask someone about their iPhone, for the most part the response is "it just works man" .. and that is all there is to it, but when you see an android user and ask them the same question.. you don't get that same feeling that they are completely happy with their experience. I've had 5 co-workers switch from HTCs to iPhones in the past 2 months, and all of them are saying how much better the iPhone is...
So, I guess for most people, the lack of customization is not that big of price to pay, when in return you get stability and UX consistency throughout the menu and the 3rd party applications. WinPhone is better than iOS in that regard, for me anyway.. the best thing is to use an android/symbian/iOS device and then pick up a win phone right after.. the icon based UX suddenly feels cluttered and old.. at least that is how i see it. The only icon based UX that can compete with WinPhone is Nokia's Harmattan (swipe UI) but they ditched it for.. who know why.
Would you elaborate on that ? For the most part, the "windows experience" is pretty consistent.. at least from what I've seen over the years. Yes, you do have the option to.. mod it, but very few do. I might be wrong..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I refer to the fact that you can do whatever you want with a PC, add remove hardware, add remove software from any source. View system files, change/modify them etc...
MS argues that they had to control the full environment from hardware to software to get all of the potential for issues out in winphone. They have been allowing the exact opposite for for what.. 20 years and here we are today.
It is possible to have both together, just much easier when you set all the rules yourself and expect everyone to adapt to you.
Don't misunderstand. Given the choice between instability and reliability I pick reliability (as I said earlier in the thread). I like my phone and the smoothness of the OS. I just don't at all like the business model that says you can only do what we allow you to do, the way we allow you to do it, we are in control always and forever through the marketplace and windows phone.com etc.. etc...
Speaking of... has it not occurred to anyone else that your phone can be wiped from the web site so...what if that got compromised?
With the coming of windows 8 MS will include a marketplace in their OS now.... This will amount to a tax on all software developers for selling their product. Who always foots the bill for increases in costs? Who reaps the benefits of said cost?
This is a closed model that has MS benefitting all around and the freedom to tinker and innovate and our wallets will pay the price.

axne1 said:
Apps get installed from the market all of the time. Apps "that didn't come with the device"
Mods have been around for years. I usually sell iPhones and Wp7 devices to seniors and old schoolers. Android is another beast. Wp7 good for our old friends with one foot in the grave.
sent from a Android device
I'm always on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not what I meant, and you know it. This is not about apps. Its about modding and customizing. If you like it, then fine..happy for ya. But I don't buy your comparison to WP and one foot in the grave.
Not understanding or choosing to not understand the new world of Phones with the App world and cloud technologies, certainly gives you an opportunity to make some $$$ helping people do setups. But Android, no, make that people who flash ROMs, tend to believe they are in the majority. I don't think they are. Most people just want their phones to work and do what they expect, be it Android, IOS or WP. I'ts not a crime to just want it to work.

alodar1 said:
Thats not what I meant, and you know it. This is not about apps. Its about modding and customizing. If you like it, then fine..happy for ya. But I don't buy your comparison to WP and one foot in the grave.
Not understanding or choosing to not understand the new world of Phones with the App world and cloud technologies, certainly gives you an opportunity to make some $$$ helping people do setups. But Android, no, make that people who flash ROMs, tend to believe they are in the majority. I don't think they are. Most people just want their phones to work and do what they expect, be it Android, IOS or WP. I'ts not a crime to just want it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too true. I would wager well over 75% of smartphone users have no idea what XDA, WM-Central etc.. sites are all about. I am in the minority flashing my phone for the past 6 or 7 years in my office and I am in IT.

hx4700 Killer said:
I refer to the fact that you can do whatever you want with a PC, add remove hardware, add remove software from any source. View system files, change/modify them etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I see.. and yes, agreed Someone was talking about removing/adding features.. and that hasn't been a popular practice in the windows world. I mean.. i've seen trimmed down Windows versions, but I don't think very many people cared about that.
I am really excited about Windows 8 + Phone ... I think it is going to be really good. Maybe there we might get a bit more freedom.

Related

I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?

AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.

Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.

I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.

awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states

I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!

awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.

no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7

Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?

awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.

Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!

I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out

That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.

Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.

Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!

Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune

francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]

We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...

Well, I like it

Because alot of the people you speak of are not android or apple fans yet. They are still weighing their options of which os and phone is better. And when a android or apple user tell them whats wrong and what features are missing. The wp7 pole jockers start to get their feelings hurt, because the phone will eventually have the updates but dont. Thats my 2 cents.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Fear
These people you speak of do not like MS for whatever personal reasons. The thought that something like WP7 might be successful irritates the heck out of them. They fear that MS will be successful and it drives them crazy, so they post hateful messages in hopes that someone, anyone, will agree with them and reinforce their hope that MS will fail. Childish, immature, unrealistic, misguided, and, quite frankly, kind of disturbing.

z33dev33l said:
We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "hate"?...... hate is a pretty strong word for an inanimate object, if your talking about the many shortcomings of WP7 that are constantly pointed out, so what, they need to be pointed out and *****ed about otherwise MS won't change them.
There's probably an element of teasing people because of funny threads like you started about how you've never been so impressed with an OS, with many silly words like "love" and "beautiful" used and how it's so much smoother than whatever, if having smooth swiping and scrolling is your total requirement for a mobile OS, don't get upset when others think it isn't.
Don't assume everybody who says anything negative about WP7 is an Android user, a lot of them are long time PPC/WM users and have probably lost more than you've gained with WP7, it's their right as a customer to bleat all they want, people can say WP7 is not a replacement for WM all they like, fact is, it's being marketed and sold as one by Microsoft.....and it ain't....not even close.
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
"Try it, before you criticize it", yet every post I've read in here where someone has, and then they are pointing out it's shortcomings, WP7 defenders start saying inane things like....you should have known, and.......go back to your beloved android, honestly, this forum is like reading a commentary of primary school life or something these days, it used to be great, now it seems like some sort of perverted amusement value where no one can accept that someone else has different wants or requirements, and start using ridiculous terms like jealousy...hate...love...beauty...trolls....fanboys on and on....pretty bizarre [if not amusing] reading considering handhelds are being discussed.
edit> Fear, there's another one.
Carry on.

gerryjoson said:
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
verdict is reached

So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.

z33dev33l said:
So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest about mine does this and yours doesn't, you asked the question, why so much hate, and I was giving reasons I thought were probably relevant apart from the extremely popular Android users conspiracy theory.
I don't really understand why you started this thread when you think you already know the answer, what was it ever going to achieve for you apart from more negativity for something you like?

XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread

JoLLAJoLLA said:
XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???

nrfitchett4 said:
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.

JoLLAJoLLA said:
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
29 posts in almost a year.
Are all of them this helpful???

well.. i used to have iphone and i hate it, i changed to android, kinda better.. then now i have wp7.
WP7 is the best amoung all the OS. i just love it.
games are much better,
i can do office,
interface is easy and fast,
screen is hell big on my HD7,
BUT
games and apps are expensive like shiat!

I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.

arturobandini said:
I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, name me another feature phone that has:
1. MS Office
2. Netflix streaming
3. slingbox
4. 3d games
5. exchange support
Just because it doesn't meet your needs, doesn't make it a featurephone.

It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough

I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]

arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, these features like explorer will come one day. And I realized that I don't need them. All my things like music and pictures are synced with zune, which is awesome. And because it's not Android I don't install ****s like Roms and etc, so file transfer is not needed for me :]

Niiceg said:
I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.

arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither was iphone or android on first release. It will take time. I can't blame MS for taking this approach. Business users were not keeping winmo numbers up enough by themselves (along with the techies). So they are trying entertainment first with business features coming.
raven_raven said:
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing wrong with trying to get more out of your phone.
Something wrong with HAVING to install fixes right out of the box.

What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-

Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks

...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard

arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.

Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.

I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.

nevermind................

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.

lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."

I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.

Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.

Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.

mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?

All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.

@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.

I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....

morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.

Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy

Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.

well if you dont want smoothness and fast responses..
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5

Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war

shamreez said:
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?

Mark_QS said:
Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to start a war, I am trying to understand why all the emphasis of smoothness at the expense of functionality in WP7?

FinancialWar said:
Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Double fail why do you want to go to a new OS called Android when there is already windows 6.5 which can do everything an android can

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big question is, does one really "need" those functions and is willing to compensate for it by using a less coherent system, apps that can crash your phone, random reboots, can leak your personal belongings, and all other things.
The answer for some people is yes --> android. For some people its no --> windows phone. I for example care about design and thats the no.1 reason why I dont like android, because it does not have a design and looks too childish/nerdo for my taste. I trade less but usefull features for some eye candy any day, because I use my phone everyday so I stare at the menu's a whole lot in the years I use my phone. And what am I truely missing? Just Skype... And this will be even integrated into the OS. And a notification system, I bet this will come in Apollo. Like last year we will probably get a beta in a few months, so I am very satisfied, because the beta's were actually perfectly suitable for daily use.
At least I dont have to worry about random reboots and dont have to witness the laggy scrolling trough the marketplace like my friends with the GS2... The whole response/bounce and kinetic scrolling of WP7 is far more natural than android. Sure they have more useless apps and they have skype and some games, but I never play games. And for customizations, its android it remains unpleasant to look at.
Other than that it is a matter of personal preferences, a friend told me android has "no bugs". Its like yeah whatever, people are entitled to their opinions and thats why we all have something to chose from which suits our needs.
You android, we WP, is android perfect? No, far from it. Is WP perfect? No far from it. However what is the most perfect choice for you is what matters and you made yours. I made mine, and Im happy and dont have to post in an android forum why their phones all have cheap looking menu's. Every time I touch my phone its a joy to use, no frustrations, now annoyances.

I'm not one to shy away from a good debate, but please keep it respectful here. Threads comparing Android and WP7 usually degenerate fairly quickly, so I just wanted to remind everyone not to turn this discussion against someone personally.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the way you present it can make a huge difference in how others perceive it.
edit: As for the question though, aesthetics are very important to a lot of people. The occasional stuttering of Android can almost be painful to someone if they're not accustomed to it, yet others may be able to get used to it quickly and are able to over look it for everything else the OS provides. IMHO Android still has a ways to go before it's intuitive and user friendly enough to be adopted by a lot of people in the market for smartphones, plus a lot of people don't have the time that's needed to learn how to use it efficiently. It seems like Microsoft is trying to find the middle ground between the aesthetics of iOS and the versatility of Android & Win mobile.

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on how basic and necessary those functions are to you.
For example:
1) bluetooth file sharing isn't a necessary function to me, i might have used it twice in a year when i was on Android;
2) being able to play every kind of unconverted video format isn't important to me because i hardly ever watch movies on the go, i've had the GS2 for 5 months and i might have done that once, just to give it a try;
3) being able to play FLAC music files on my phone is something i don't care about because a real audiophile would never use the phone as a main music player because of the cheap DACs used by OEMs; even lossy mp3 files are a waste on some of those if you have good ears.
4) i don't give a damn about flash, it's mostly used for ads and other gimmicks rather for anything useful over the net; i know some may care (not that i do) about streaming sites/services but most of those generally have their app.
5) i don't really need usb mass storage support because i don't even use my phone for music right now, i only use it for browsing, running apps and viewing/editing documents.
6) i don't really need a file browser because i find more convenient to look for specific kinds of files in their specific hub: it's just tidier and faster to me.
Anyway these are just few examples, would you point me to some things that you find basic and necessary and WP7 doesn't do? Maybe you should talk in a more specific way, because like i said, the concept of "basic and necessary" is too subjective and generic imho.
The only things i don't really like about WP7 is the lack of a decent built in navigation app and real multitasking, because some apps don't really support dehydratation that well and don't take you exactly where you were at.
Also, it's not all about smoothness, but also efficient integration of the few apps i really use daily and deem consider important, overall consistency in the look and feel of the OS, reliability and last but not least uniformity of the software throughout the platform, regardless the price of the device you choose to buy. Most people think that WP7 is form over function, i used to think the same way, but after you get into it imho you realize that it's pretty functional in its own way.
Tell me what does bother you the most about the OS, i'm open to discussion, i've owned Android devices for a great while so i understand how it baffles you to see people being happy about a mobile OS which apparently is too limited compared to Android. Hopefully nobody will get in here and turn this thing into the usual war...

vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.

FinancialWar said:
vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And neither are you. You're coming into this section posting with a superior, higher than thou attitude and implying that just because YOU need these features, Windows Phone lacks "function." You aren't the only user in the world, and the fact is, that most people who purchase an Android device, never even change their launcher, let alone use most of the "functionality" you're claiming is so important. If it doesn't work for you, then stay in the Android section, and post wonderful topics over there. I don't get why some of you get your daily satisfaction by coming in here in posting nonsense like this. As vnvman said, we don't need it, so the phone is perfect for us. If you need it, then don't purchase the device. I prefer being able to effortlessly use the "functionality" I do have, than to have to modify my phone to have a chance of using "new" features. A lot of Android devices aren't even on Gingerbread yet, and will probably never get ICS, so this functionality argument stops there for them.

Financial,
I find the thing we lack the most is empathy. Many responses you already receive sum it up. But let me ask you the reverse question:
What is the point of functionality without stability?
Let us take a step back from this smoothness argument and go back to another thing that has plagued Android - Battery life. What is the point of using multicore, highspeed CPUs in order to achieve something that less horsepowered phones easily achieve at the expense of price and battery life?
Also your idea of necessary functions and my I idea may be very different. What is Windows Phone missing that you deem basic?

Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Dr.8820 said:
Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IDK, it seems like many Android users have some serious e-penis issue. Honestly I can't cope with that: when I was on Android I was never tired to express my criticism towards the platform, as I now do with WP7. Criticisms is very important: if the end user is always satisfied with what it has he will never get a better product.
This is what I do:
1)I choose a platform, see what I like and what I don't.
2)If something I don't like stays there for a too long time I jump ship.
3)Repeat.
IDK, maybe I'm weird.

What I don't understand about all these Android users posting about WP7 being 'useless' is that they seem to have forgotten one MAJOR point:
The vast majority of people buying smartphones don't have a blind clue about what Android can really do if they push it. They get the phone, set up facebook, download a few useless apps and never do anything more.
The problem is that Windows Phone just isn't designed for the sort of people who frequent XDA Devs.
Windows Phone is designed for the average user - someone who doesn't have a clue what phone they want, and who'll buy whatever the salesman tells them to. That is currently the iPhone and Android, and people are fast realising that those 2 platforms aren't all that brilliant for people who don't know what to do with them.
Windows Phone is there to take care of those customers - it offers the simplest, fastest interface, with the majority of features most people use and no unnecessary frills. That is exactly the point of Metro, and something that people in this community seem to forget.
Fair enough if you want something that can do more than my laptop and don't care that the battery only lasts 6 hours as a result. You can have that - go an buy an Android.
I want a phone that works first time, every time I pick it up. That means I can pick it up, do or get what I want or need, put it down, and get on with my life. And that's what most people want, too, and that's what Windows Phone offers.
Cue a bunch of Android developers who still don't have a clue what the target market for Windows Phone is flaming the hell out of me.

There's a nice video about the different mobile strategies of Google vs Apple / Microsoft here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nfgs4EUeTlk#t=129s
In summary:
Apple / Microsoft already have a desktop OS, so can offer mobile devices that are purpose-built appliances.
Google does not have a separate desktop OS. Therefore, Android is designed to be a more general computing platform.
These are different approaches as many of the people above have explained

That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Toyota is better. It will get you to work everyday for a low cost and won't get stopped along the way because it ran out of gas (aka battery) when your trying to get to your work. It also won't scrape over pot holes and speedbumps. Sure the Ferrari seems flashy and will pick up all the chicks, but in the end you will end up with a broken, dead car that you constantly have to fill up and fix. Meanwhile your toyota with it's single cam will keep on plugging at a decent speed and be reliable every time you start it up till you bring it home.

I like stability, ease of use, aesthetics, an ecosystem, and speed.
You want to hack your phone endlessly to make it almost as smooth, almost as user friendly, slap on a mediocre launcher to make it not an aesthetic nightmare, download apps to emulate some type of ecosystem, and never gain the stability.
That's how I see it broken down. Android gets modified relentlessly to attain what we already have. All we really lack is the games.
E; and how about those updates?

I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.

sinister1 said:
I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love when those who flame WP7 mention Bluetooth transfer as a key feature. I haven't been to 2005 recently.

Hi,
So this is a post to say how I have become disillusioned with my WP7.5 device.
I love the HD7 with WP7.5, for what it does, it does it well and it fits my one required:
"Feels like a well integrated phone device"
Unlike Android phones which feel like I am looking at a nerdy linux desktop (which is cool) but I just want to use a device that feels like a single device.
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
My device is great but the OS has flaws, like why the hell is there one volume for all OS sections?
Why is when I look at a contact the phone number (the most important bit) is a tiny font?
There is a raft of other stuff like that out there. Other stuff it does really well though and I have always been impressed by it which is why I will keep my device and use it for development but I will be honest, I have a Sony Xperia S phone as well now which is getting rooted tonight and may well end up in more use.

Cool Story, So...
So if you want to take hours off your life, meaninglessly tweaking your phone's OS, then you're so in the wrong boat. I ran myself so wacko for almost 2 years on Android, and WM before it. So I'm quite happy with life this way. The white-on-black theme in most apps makes the text stand out so much better to me, regardless of size.
So I also don't understand why you're so concerned about not being able to see a contact's phone number so well. It says so in big white letters above it, "Call Mobile" (etc.). So if you want to call them by number then open the dial pad instead.
So I actually love the one-for-all volume setting, as opposed to the Android "Media volume", that you can't even readily control unless / until you're playing something (except if you opt for a battery-sucking widget to track it)... then good luck remembering where you last left it.

LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.

My 15 month old HD7 still works, even after hearing about IOS6, Jellybean, and me only getting 7.8 instead of WP8....sorry to hear about yours ....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Arthur Hucksake said:
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy

I agree with ballanda123 about the phone number font, "call to mobile" has a big font, you can easily press it

creamy said:
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you CAN do that. That is my point. You have the option of customising everything, including the software on the handset.
I have a HTC Titan btw, so i'm not a fandroid. I just don't see how having real options as being a bad thing.

I think the OP has a point - WP could use another Mango-style update, where MS fix lots of minor issues.
e.g. two small issues that I come across every day:
When I forward an email, I cannot edit the original text. I use copy and paste as a workaround - anyone else got a better solution?
Agree with OP about the volume controls. My WP is now my main portable audio player, either with headphones or standalone speaker. I have to keep the volume high because the headphone jack volume is relatively low. System sounds, such as calendar alerts, become very loud! Maybe some type of normalisation could also fix this.
It's basically a symptom of WP being a new OS, with only one major update so far since launch. Hopefully, MS will address the small issues in WP8 as well as adding headline features.

Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Come on, HOW hard can it be to at least make a list of features we don't have compared to other OS and add a few on top of it.
If WP8 after all these backlash, WP7.8 fiasco and kernel change melodrama is still going to be a catch waste game, I am happy with my WP7.5 Titan. Can't keep shelling out money in hope of "In future we will have..."
As long as OP's post goes - I partially agree. If certain features don't rock your boat, it just doesn't. He hasn't made those stereotypical post about 'oh my days, I don't have that bird games latest version, I hate the phone'.

I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......

fatclue said:
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.

agree with drupad. i still love my titan and the screen and smoothness of how it works. when i got the phone everyone was talking about the future and developement and new apps and no fragmentation etc. in one fell swoop all that got swept away.apps like iplayer, tvcatchup,poweramp, banking,don't look like they are going to happen. so many people have their own favorites they are not going to see. i was fortunate in my contract staggers that renewal coincided with my titan and now also my one x(the first android i've owned).i also have a renewal due with w8 release but unless i'm convinced otherwise i'll be looking else where.previous to the titan i was on a TP2. so i've experienced MS OS customer care before.they keep chasing and promising.would be nice to see them deliver.

drupad2drupad said:
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as yours makes sense, it won't happen

drupad2drupad said:
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I vented on the correct thread. Look at the OP, he states he loves his phone but goes on to say how "disillusioned" he is now. What changed? Did he wake up one day and realize he made a bad purchase? Probably not but there a lot of posters who have railed at MS for not giving them what they THOUGHT they were going to get. I'm with you on the PDF situation. As I posted, I'm not going back in unless this primary need is met. But I realized this shortcoming before the announcement last week. I was using a workaround with Handyscan but the camera in the DVP is simply atrocious so that was no longer a suitable option. I miss my Dell but I can't afford to be without this basic function so I'll plod through another year or whatever with WinMo until Adobe gets its act straight. Yes, I blame Adobe because I can attach Handyscan PDF's to email so it ain't Outlook.

finalzero said:
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
finalzero said:
My device is great but the OS has flaws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fatclue said:
You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.

WP8 will go hard with features and here's why: it is based on the NT kernel. The NT kernel supports far more hardware and software features than the current CE kernel. Its true that the CE kernel once did have all the features we're clamoring for but with a major performance hit. This won't be the case with the NT kernel.

My primary annoyance with my experience with Android was mainly the constant customization that was available. It was fun for the first couple of months, but I ended up constantly changing things because I couldn't decide on what I liked.
I switched over to WP7 last December and it's been a god-send for me. The design is simple yet effective, and I appreciate how MS limited the amount of customization I could do. It kept me focused on actually enjoying the phone and OS for what it was for once.

magicsquid said:
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
I still enjoy it and most importantly, it works, with it's flaws, it still does most things right.
I just wish MS take note and try to incorporate good bits from other phone OSes. I know they want to go it alone and prove they can build a decent mobile OS but it's still in it's early days (trust me as a developer who has worked with WP7.5 I feel it's got a long way to go).
However Microsoft have a strategy and I am sure with Windows 8 being released into the wild and the zoo we call the "Corporate Enterprise" it should finally come together as a common platform (Microsoft Technology, Microsoft Desktops, Microsoft Mobile Connectivity).
It's a changing landscape as well, don't forget the dawn of the pads is already upon us and again Microsoft was slow to respond (but respond they did with what could be a set of stunning Win8 mobile devices...I hope).
Well I got my Xperia P here and to be honest it's just too cluttered for me, feels like my linux desktop and not a well integrated phone OS (mind you Sony have done a pretty good job at trying to make it feel like a smart phone device).
This leaves me with Apple iPhone 5, which I might consider if it weren't for the fact that I think under all that fluff the stuff is ****. But they have executed the whole package well and if there is one thing the likes of MS and the multitude of Jap Manufacturers can learn it's how to make a consumer device and platform properly.
IF Nokia don't seriously effk things up, the Lumia 900 or the next Nokia WP8 device is on my list.

Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.

sitizenx said:
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Hope you have some bibs handy.