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so im wallking around and come across two O2 phone shops. ( currently the only uk supply of the HD7) what do i see?
outside the shop.
Apple = 2 LARGE Apple iphone4 posters in front window. unmissable.
Microsoft = er no mention of HD7 or wp7outside the shop that i can remember.
it gets worse
Inside the shop.
Apple = 1 large centerpiece table with FOUR iphone 4s available to play with
Microsoft = 1 WP7 HD7 hidden away in the corner at the back of the shop
result apple 2 microsoft 0
Is this the big marketing push microsoft was on about? this just just what ive seen from Both major o2 stores, im not even going to bother with orange or t-mobile! how can ms expect to compete when their marketing stinks? anyone else notice stuff like this from other stores?
germany seems to be quite the opposite.
was in a t-mobile and a vodafone shop yesterday.
tmo: BIG plastic wp7 in window presenting the UI, wp7 and apple poster outside,
inside in the center big table with wp7 mozart and omnia7 to play around with, iphone on side of the table, not usable, android at side of the shop, no phone usable
vodafone: 3 wp7 and 1 apple posters, in the center wp7 trophy (not usable), iphone on a side-shelf not usable either, windows only presenting wp7
so i think they did a quite good job here, iphone hype seems kind of getting boring
thats good to hear. it just that here you would think that the iphone has only just been released and that wp7 is the older platform. thats how good apple marketing seems to be. ( with plenty of help from the carriers of course.)
you do realise that MS can't control the carriers right? if the carriers want to advertise, they will. MS can try and persuade, but at the end of the day, the carrier will always back the one already bringing in the money. until windows phone proves itself, it won't get the same attention.
i'm a windows person and would love to see it more prominent as well, but this is the facts. australia has pretty much the same situation, everyone is just iPhone crazy and so are the carriers.
i hear ya, but i also dont see many if any wp7 ads on tv either cetrainly not any useful ones anyway.......
The Gate Keeper said:
you do realise that MS can't control the carriers right? if the carriers want to advertise, they will. MS can try and persuade, but at the end of the day, the carrier will always back the one already bringing in the money. until windows phone proves itself, it won't get the same attention.
i'm a windows person and would love to see it more prominent as well, but this is the facts. australia has pretty much the same situation, everyone is just iPhone crazy and so are the carriers.
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Where did $500 million allocated for advertisement go? TV commercials?
well if you look at the TV ads you can see that Apple has better advertising. The Facetime and app commercials are a lot better than "I can snap a picture a millisecond faster than you" WP7 commercials. At least WP7 actually has ads. I have never seen a winmo commercial. Even the HD2, they only said it had a fast processor, big screen, and came with transformers, they never mentioned any software pros, so MS is on the way up, but their commercials really do suck, especially when the MT4G, Evo, iPhone 4 commercials are all about about video chat and 4G, neither of which WP7 can claim.
WP7 is just not going to be on par with Android or iOS for a while, till it becomes another mainstream OS, but if I went and asked ANYONE I know what WP7 is, they wouldn't have a damn clue, or say "oh I thought I saw that one with those big squares right?"
MS doesn't give any info about the OS other than you have big ass tiles that update and apparently you can open your camera app fast.
If that's the only thing your OS can do, then people are going to go with the alternative.
In the AT&T stores in the U.S., soon as you walk in the door and turn left, you hit the iPhone section. iPhones get the royal treatment. You have to search for all the other phones (no prominent displays).
I think MS is limited in advertising because they have a separation from the hardware. MS only advertise the OS. I haven't seen any HTC/LG/Samsung WP7 TV ads for their own hardware. Because of this disconnect, I think we'll never see absolutely great advertising for WP7 (Android neither). Apple's "take total control over everything" approach seems to be paying off well for them.
I think MS needs to do joint advertising with all of its hardware partners. As of now, the WP7 phones have no "market personality" the way iPhones and some Androids do. I've seen AT&T WP7 commercials that are reminiscent of early iPhone commercials. I give AT&T credit for having the best WP7 TV ads so far. Unfortunately, they aren't that amazing either.
WhyBe said:
I've seen AT&T WP7 commercials that are reminiscent of early iPhone commercials. I give AT&T credit for having the best WP7 TV ads so far. Unfortunately, they aren't that amazing either.
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True story - even with German providers.
am i the only one that thinks windows phone 7 ads are good? :S i like them they spead the truth!
I agree that their first couple of ads for WP7 were terrible but the latest 2 they have shown have been really good. They are finally starting to show what the os can do by talking about the Xbox live integration and the airport commerical that shows off the bing search.
Sadly this project is no more. We were a dev team of 3 people who had about 3 months into Appaloosa. However, the slow build of the WP7 platform and some reported low sales numbers in the App Marketplace made it hard to justify the additional time needed to bring this title to market.
Was very hard to let go of so much work and creative energy.
Here is a walk thru of an alpha build. It definately shows what that phone is capable of pushing (forum is perventing the url, sorry first post).
img816.imageshack.us/img816/3521/32430348.mp4
You're kidding, right?
The WP7 platform has had a faster uptake than both iOS and Android when they were first launched. As for marketplace sales, I don't know what numbers you have seen, but games is what generally sells well, especially ones with great graphics as they are not only used as a game but also as a "look at what my phone can do" kinda thing amongst the owners friends.
From the video, and with no background information available, it doesn't look like a game for me, but if it was performing well and priced correctly I would still probably pick it up.
Anyway, that's my $0.02.
Hi there
lard666 said:
However, the slow build of the WP7 platform and some reported low sales numbers in the App Marketplace[...]
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I don't know exactly what numbers you are referring to, but I guess you mean LG's statement. Isn't LG maybe just part of the picture? There are Samsung and HTC that are currently the main sellers of WP7. (for the shares, look here: http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wp7oem.png)
Although I can't exactly be sure why LG is doing that bad (it might have to do something with the phone they offer...) - that's up for speculation.
I'd like to add that T-Mobile Germany just stated that they are ahead of their plans regarding WP7 sales (source: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...-windows-phone-7-sales-are-ahead-of-schedule/ along with several other sites)
Personally, I don't get the impression that WP7 is doing badly.
lard666 said:
Was very hard to let go of so much work and creative energy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging from what is shown in the trailer, I'd say it's a great thing you did so far.
And I'd like to buy a version as soon as it is out (I know that I am just one person - but there might be others who think the same)
lard666 said:
Here is a walk thru of an alpha build. It definately shows what that phone is capable of pushing (forum is perventing the url, sorry first post).
img816.imageshack.us/img816/3521/32430348.mp4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like stated above, it looks fantastic up 'till now.
I'd like you to continue your work and take this project all the way to the Marketplace.
Wow! That looks absolutely amazing.
Maybe this is a stupid suggestion but if you get it to be an xbox live game (they seem to do well) then it has every chance of being a success. Not sure how much Microsoft will take but worth consdering.
Good job!
I'm with you guys. I don't even know what this game is about but from the alpha build the 3D graphics look slick as hell. If you look at a game like Zombies!!! MS took it under its wing, gave it XBox Live integration and now it'll get a sh!tload of sales because of that. And that seems to be what they're donig with high performance games so it's worth pursuing...
If you write for Android you won't make money. No one buys anything on that platform. if you write for iOS no one will see your game in the sea of apps. WP7 still has potential.
Moving this to SW development since this is an ongoing project. Once its in the "its an app" stage I will move it back to the release section.
~~Tito~~
With regard to the kind words about the looks of the project, thank you.
The environment for level one (which was shown in the video in it's incomplete form) was 210K polygons.
Appaloosa is an old school western pistol pack'n arcade style shooter. It's based in a fantastic, toony, world centered loosely around America's late 1800's Old West. It's a rail shooter with shorter action-areas that can be completed in a single mobile time wasting session. So think western popup shooter crossed with Time Crisis; and add tumble-weed bonus rounds ala Galaga. It also had direct Face Book integration for quick posting of achievements. The game was to be priced at $.99 for each level (we were toying with the idea of releasing one level at a time, episodic style) or $2.99 for the complete game.
About WP7 being viable (currently, say this year 2011) to develop apps for... I don't see the indicators or hard data that proves so. And I'm not saying this with a confrontational tone, I just haven't seen any. I keep hearing lazy statistics (which are easily manipulated like, "fastest sales", "highest rate of apps", "most devs to date", etc.) and praise ("performing better then expected")... but the hard numbers are being held for some reason. I would bet no one had recovered their time investment for WP7 development yet, let along make a living from it.
Regardless, the numbers of phones sold is something to be mindful of, but more important is how the paid apps are selling. And the short answer is they aren't.
Games sell more then any other app and 'LIVE' games sell the most. We knew we would be dead in the water without 'LIVE' support, but when we spoke to a MSFT rep in Belgium we got the answer, "oh LIVE... yes yes, that is tricky. Probably can't get you LIVE status; that is reserved for the big guys. Let me know when your game is done, and I will see what I can do to push it up the list."
We were also in contact with a dev studio who's game has always been in the top 10 and has "LIVE" certification. Their game has sold in the tens of thousands; which doesn't even cover dev costs. Maybe the costs will be recovered over the next year. But that 'maybe' was a risk I couldn't take; not with a self-funded (sweat equity) game.
We weren't looking to make big bucks. Just wanted to be able to exercise our craft and make a living. Everyone on the team was willing to live on 1/3 a typical studio salary in exchange for creative freedom and a chance to gain from their own sweat equity. We all brought senior experience to the table (I've worked on Tomb Raider, Half-Life, Tribes, Tony Hawk, and others). Sadly, the numbers aren't there. Punch in some basic math numbers on keeping 3 people alive for a 9 month dev cycle; plus additional time for sales and payment, and it's just not an equation that balances yet. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm bound by the realities of the real world, so at the New Year we had to evaluate the project progress and platform landscape.
If anyone has direct access to a MSFT rep, I would be happy to chat with them about bringing the game to market; Or point them to this post.
I guess the point of this post is that the phone is capable of pushing some great graphics and supporting original, mobile specific, titles of very high quality. But if a tiny 3 person team can't justify a 9 months development risk... then I see a chicken-n-egg scenario formed.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=902681
the person that posted this works for Microsoft... send him a message.
@lard666 One thing you have not accounted for in your numbers are Xbox sales. I am assuming this is written in XNA which means you can release it on the Xbox with it's 30 million users and $1 billion revenue last year almost at the flick of a switch.
I'm not saying this means you would definitely recoup your costs, but I know quite a few people who have high-selling titles on XBL, so it is possible.
I'd also like to point out that regional MS reps are nowhere near as helpful as their US counterparts. We had more luck contacting US people directly than we did liaising with the Swedish reps. I cannot say for certain that this is the same everywhere, but I have had similar experience in two other European countries in the past.
I'll forward this to Brandon Watson right now.
Guess you didn't hear about the Nokia deal. Too bad you quit.
lard666 said:
With regard to the kind words about the looks of the project, thank you.
The environment for level one (which was shown in the video in it's incomplete form) was 210K polygons.
Appaloosa is an old school western pistol pack'n arcade style shooter. It's based in a fantastic, toony, world centered loosely around America's late 1800's Old West. It's a rail shooter with shorter action-areas that can be completed in a single mobile time wasting session. So think western popup shooter crossed with Time Crisis; and add tumble-weed bonus rounds ala Galaga. It also had direct Face Book integration for quick posting of achievements. The game was to be priced at $.99 for each level (we were toying with the idea of releasing one level at a time, episodic style) or $2.99 for the complete game.
About WP7 being viable (currently, say this year 2011) to develop apps for... I don't see the indicators or hard data that proves so. And I'm not saying this with a confrontational tone, I just haven't seen any. I keep hearing lazy statistics (which are easily manipulated like, "fastest sales", "highest rate of apps", "most devs to date", etc.) and praise ("performing better then expected")... but the hard numbers are being held for some reason. I would bet no one had recovered their time investment for WP7 development yet, let along make a living from it.
Regardless, the numbers of phones sold is something to be mindful of, but more important is how the paid apps are selling. And the short answer is they aren't.
Games sell more then any other app and 'LIVE' games sell the most. We knew we would be dead in the water without 'LIVE' support, but when we spoke to a MSFT rep in Belgium we got the answer, "oh LIVE... yes yes, that is tricky. Probably can't get you LIVE status; that is reserved for the big guys. Let me know when your game is done, and I will see what I can do to push it up the list."
We were also in contact with a dev studio who's game has always been in the top 10 and has "LIVE" certification. Their game has sold in the tens of thousands; which doesn't even cover dev costs. Maybe the costs will be recovered over the next year. But that 'maybe' was a risk I couldn't take; not with a self-funded (sweat equity) game.
We weren't looking to make big bucks. Just wanted to be able to exercise our craft and make a living. Everyone on the team was willing to live on 1/3 a typical studio salary in exchange for creative freedom and a chance to gain from their own sweat equity. We all brought senior experience to the table (I've worked on Tomb Raider, Half-Life, Tribes, Tony Hawk, and others). Sadly, the numbers aren't there. Punch in some basic math numbers on keeping 3 people alive for a 9 month dev cycle; plus additional time for sales and payment, and it's just not an equation that balances yet. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm bound by the realities of the real world, so at the New Year we had to evaluate the project progress and platform landscape.
If anyone has direct access to a MSFT rep, I would be happy to chat with them about bringing the game to market; Or point them to this post.
I guess the point of this post is that the phone is capable of pushing some great graphics and supporting original, mobile specific, titles of very high quality. But if a tiny 3 person team can't justify a 9 months development risk... then I see a chicken-n-egg scenario formed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
So far been pretty good reviews out there, really like how Gizmodo shows off the features in the video.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's very nice they like it. But this "unless there's a a radical "Android redesign" is equally silly and shows they're not really serious.
Reading such positive reviews is great, normally Gizmodo has been very critical of the OS.
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
Didn't gizmodo originally like WP7? I remember a billboard here in the UK with the Gizmodo quote "This changes everything"... Then after launch they proceeded to slag it off at any opportunity.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/
Everything looks good except for the multi-tasking feature...
It looks like iOS... it'll be nicer if its vert-scrolling like the main screen.
ryude said:
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
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Click to collapse
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So by recommending Android basically they are saying no other phone is worth buying? I find that to be biased, since I have used and even developed for Android in the past. I happen to like WP7 more now, I would have never figured that out by asking sales reps I had to learn that myself.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
ohgood said:
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty piss poor analogies but this one takes the cake. The correlation makes absolutely no sense, and assigning a "brand" to bananas is crazy. But congrats Dole, people believe a sticker make your product better than Chiquita, or any other "generic" banana (what exactly is a generic banana?) which could have very well been picked off the same tree (since they also import bananas as well).
By the way, you walk in Best Buy and they are pushing Playbooks at you. That means they are the best option available?
There are more than a handful of customer associates that recommend what is in their best interests.
keyboardP said:
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
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excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
ohgood said:
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that WP7 should be praised and others condemned. Every platform has its pros and cons (and it would be nice to not have any obvious bias in articles), but there's been, IMO, some unjust biased against WP7 in many mainstream articles simply because it has the MS tag on it.
I agree about the hard numbers as it's what's keeping a lot of developers away. There are some big names coming through though (Amazon, Angry Birds, PopCap etc..), so there may be something. I think a lot of devs, including myself, are getting some apps out there for now, hoping that Mango really delivers.
iPhone certainly has a market, but with a Mac required to develop for it, it seems a bit too much of a barrier for me. Android is okay to develop for, and I loved the openness of pretty much being able to do what you wanted. However, despite the market share of Android, there's still not much evidence that developers can make any real money either. There are too many free apps which do the same as paid apps and when users are conditioned to believe everything should be free on your platform, that's not great for devs. I thought it was interesting that Angry Birds went for a free, ad-based model rather than a paid model considering they had already had a following. Any new IPs trying to do something similar probably won't have the same large following, thus making the ad revenue pretty low.
ohgood said:
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
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Click to collapse
Isn't the Windows Marketplace growing at an unprecedented rate? Fact or fiction? So why do poor sales matter to you? It seems like it is only for bragging rights since Windows Phone has had no shortage of app development or software updates.
I understand all the good reasons why strong sales are desireous. But at this point in time it does not matter to you if your neighbour did not buy a Windows Phone. The phone is still progressing at a positive rate.
Currently 24,447 apps in the window phone marketplace. That's huge considering it's only been out since October/November of last year? We could see 50,000 apps by the end of this year. With Mango's 1500 new API's and better live tile support/multi-tasking I see apps only becoming better and better.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty stupid things posted in this forum, but this has to be the dumbest. You're basically saying that Android is the "nice Dole banana" and WP is the "trash," and therefore, all sales reps are just doing their job by offering Android only and pushing you away from WP? Some of you people man... If you don't like the platform, just shut up... Touching on the actual topic, not only have I seen good reviews, but extensive ones, which I prefer much more... Whether the opinion is good or bad, I appreciate them taking a great deal of time outlining the platform...
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
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Click to collapse
This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.
apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
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but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
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Click to collapse
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
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I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------
gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
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its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.
ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
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Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
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ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
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Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
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You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
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Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.
sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
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Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.
Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
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proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.
The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.
When will the widespread and accepted use of NFC in America happen? We've had it on phones for about 2 years now but it's still not implemented fully. Almost all new android and a few WP8 phones are getting it, but it still doesn't have great usage. Among us technologically advanced people it has uses but what about everyone else? Wallet seemed strong. It with everyone blocking it it's iffy. The s beam commercial is helping but it's still not @ it's potential.
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IMO once the carriers get sorted with NFC mobile payment. and integrated into our public transit systems it will start really kicking off. At least thats how it is in Japan. Unfortunately the average consumer wouldnt likely take advantage of the more complex, yet outstanding features. Even something such as tasker integration seems too difficult for most consumers. However, add wallet less payment and instant rewards, they'll be all over it.
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Widespread acceptence is quite a broad request. Once peer-to-peer mode is widely available on handsets the standard will likely be used to exchange data or play simple games with each other. Exploring reader functionality for non geeks will probably be more widespread over time. Features like business cards etc may take of as well as other cool stuff that is done via tasker. You always have to see though that making stuff with tasker etc requires a bit of knowledge by the user hence why there are many users that may never use nfc with its potential because they just don't know / understand how to do it. Not every smartphone user is sufficient in programming etc. (A fact that is forgotten by many devs these days it seems to me.)
Use cases that will require card emulation will take quite some time though. Number one reason is that manufacturer and service providers try to block each other. Number two reason is that there is no standard out there yet. Wanna use Isis? Well buy an Isis ready phone (those are smartphones with a special version of the OS) etc. Right now every NFC payment and physical access service requires a different service provider specific OS. As long as this does not change I doubt its going to get widely spread.
At least 2 or 3 more Years would be my vote. So I take 2014
NFC
Honestly, I just found out about wallet a few months ago, sadly enough. Sounds like a promising technology though. The GS3 commercials were classic in illustrating its....capabilities...
I don't think, NFC will see any widespread uses anytime soon.
Configuring your phone by tapping it to a tag is a geeky thing to do. Most people are not geeks. They either go with a mediocre "one size fits all" setup or will manually adjust their devices whenever needed to avoid the learning curve and the additional costs of programming tags.
Wireless money transfer? Dream on! That's the wet dream of the banks. Who are interested in putting transaction fees on every purchase. Only problem: even non geeks understand that paying by just holding the phone next to a reader will make it subject to e-pickpocketing.
onyxbits said:
I don't think, NFC will see any widespread uses anytime soon.
Configuring your phone by tapping it to a tag is a geeky thing to do. Most people are not geeks. They either go with a mediocre "one size fits all" setup or will manually adjust their devices whenever needed to avoid the learning curve and the additional costs of programming tags.
Wireless money transfer? Dream on! That's the wet dream of the banks. Who are interested in putting transaction fees on every purchase. Only problem: even non geeks understand that paying by just holding the phone next to a reader will make it subject to e-pickpocketing.
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Dude, most stores here in NYC (including Macy's, which has non-geeky people) have Google Wallet compatible card readers. There are Samsung ads on my campus and in the city on telephone booths that say "Tap your phone for free music/eBooks/videos". It's spreading slowly but surely. It's available on pretty much all phones coming out now, and stores and other places of interest are starting to take notice. I mean look at the latest Samsung ads. People with iPhones keep asking me if they can do "the bumpy thing" to send things to each other.
Product F(RED) said:
Dude, most stores here in NYC (including Macy's, which has non-geeky people) have Google Wallet compatible card readers. There are Samsung ads on my campus and in the city on telephone booths that say "Tap your phone for free music/eBooks/videos". It's spreading slowly but surely. It's available on pretty much all phones coming out now, and stores and other places of interest are starting to take notice. I mean look at the latest Samsung ads. People with iPhones keep asking me if they can do "the bumpy thing" to send things to each other.
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Yes, NYC, but we were talking about widespread adoption, which to my understanding means: pretty much everywhere, not just in the hip places. Around here, I see little about NFC technology. In fact, NFC was one of the reasons for me to get a Nexus 7. I was rather disappointed when I found out that non of the major hardware stores seem to carry them. Personally, I think that availability of tags is a major factor for achieving a breakthrough. That "bumpy thing" is cool in the ads (isn't it nice how marketing is able to play us by appealing to our primal instincts?) but in reality is stopped in it's tracks if you don't have compatible devices.
It'll be adopted widespread when iPhones finally adopt it..then everyone will act like apple invented the best thing since sliced bread and fall down and worship the all powerful "i"
thewarhawk said:
It'll be adopted widespread when iPhones finally adopt it..then everyone will act like apple invented the best thing since sliced bread and fall down and worship the all powerful "i"
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True. The least common denominator.
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