Develop Bugs

Wtf?

Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Hey man, I can honestly say that I think this is complete bull! Haha. Why would they take away the boot loader?? Thats aa main trouble shoot tool in its self, and if this does happen. I highly doubt that it would stop root. We would be able to get past it.
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Read the thread....even if they do get around it there will be back ups that will kill service to any rooted device. Idk if this is true but its interesting
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We have wayy too many smart devs to let this happen. I'm not worried

This is a rumor from ONE source. People have been getting all upset over this but until anything actually happens, it's just that. A rumor.
Besides, if Verizon is worried about people tethering for free, it would make more sense to charge for data on a tiered level like they're probably going to start doing anyway.

Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)

byrong, thank you!

byrong said:
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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donnyp1 said:
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
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Click to collapse
I don't necesarilly believe it will happen but is it plausible? yes....You can't deny that major carriers and development teams have more knowledge, experience, and capability then ANY developer on xda. Look at the past. Apple actually brought out a lawsuit trying to keep people from jailbreaking devices. So while we may all sit around and laugh at the idea and while it is just a bunch of hear say at this point, it is definitely plausible. And i do agree that it may just be easier to do tiered data plans, but then that kind of screws over verizon's customers who actually pay for tether. So you can kind of understand why they wouldn't want to continue to move on that route. Both options are viable and neither of them appears to be any sort of threat right now. As stated above, right now it's just a bunch of threads linking back to other threads linking back to other threads. And I don't know how much there is to believe about it but none the less it definitely could happen.... But hopefully nothing will happen....I mean come on manufacturers hardly keep their devices up to date...2.3 has already been dropped on how many devices and we're still waiting for it. People are on to sense 3.0 and we still have 1.0 on our stock rom. If they decide to kill the independent dev community then they better start dropping crazy updates with extremely customizable roms. It just seems like too much work that would ultimately end in manufacturers and providers losing money. Sooo ya. probs not gonna happen

If people didnt abuse tether, it wouldnt be an issue. So much free wifi, i cant think of last time i tethered. I also actually pay for internet at hone, yet i know several who tether for home internet.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Verizon would be foolish to do this. People are attracted to their service due to the freedom of android...

elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a flame, it's just the truth... There really is not a whole lot to be concerned about. It's out of our control so whatever happens happens, we'll have to deal with it when it shows up, IF it shows up. But why be so concerned about it?
Having said that, as far as rooting goes, they SHOULD embrace developers and allow us to use our roms and stuff legally... but I think that there is stuff set in writing and signatures that are still in effect for the time being. I see them never allowing us to root, but compromising by letting us set our own defaults and not having to use their proprietary carrier BS eventually. Whatever we make our phones into (right now) creates a market, and where there's a market there's money. We'll either have the perfect phone or the option to make the perfect phone, just like we can buy the perfect PC or make the perfect PC. Well, at least as far as software goes.
I personally believe we'll ultimately get what we want to the point where rooting is useless as far as ordinary everyday users go. But right now we don't know what this whole smartphone craze is or what its gonna be when it finally plateaus, and neither do the manufacturers & carriers so they can't exactly crack whips on our backs for doing all of this yet.
Besides, the hackers that make these roms make the phones better. They turn us into brand and carrier loyalists. The Optimus, Galaxy S, Xperia, HTC & Droids all have followings for different reasons, and the developers are the most rabid and loyal of them all. They might not NEED us, but we're still pretty freaking important.

elixir911911 said:
Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Okay I'm going to be as nice as I can about this. It's not true. We've had so many threads about this the threads are starting to scare people. Please stop. I don't mean to be rude to you. There is not on piece of solid evidence and I've talked to soooo many people it's not even funny. Don't buy it.

I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App

ucluglee said:
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
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+1 true
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[Q] Survival apps for when TSHTF?

I have smart tools, most handy thing out of that is the compass basically.
So im asking, what are the best survival apps?
Im no conspiracy nut, but it doesn't take a genius to realize the earth is going through stuff it never has before.
Survival apps meaning:
Any guides (i already have the US army & Navy guides)
Any tools that utilizes the Epic's tech (i.e compass, solar wind activity)
If we do not already, someone needs to start coding some serious apps.
Also, if anyone knows of any good ad-hoc programs for when cell towers go down.
Having a nice shiny phone wont mean **** when the cell towers go down.
Take this seriously, please.

When the towers go down and all that madness starts happening, how do you plan on charging your shiny phone?
Edit: As snide a response as this is, I'm being serious. There's better ways to be prepared.

In all seriousness, anything a smartphone can do (assuming network infrastructure is kaput) is better done with a purpose built tool. If TSHTF, you really think a day or two of battery life is gonna cut it?
Better to get a standalone analog compass, a good set of maps, and a decent Yaesu HT ham radio. No reason to reinvent the wheel.
(Unless you want to play Angry Birds)
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

klub242 said:
When the towers go down and all that madness starts happening, how do you plan on charging your shiny phone?
Edit: As snide a response as this is, I'm being serious. There's better ways to be prepared.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just thanked you when i meant to quote lol, off to a great start. As for your "response", no ****.
**** hits the fan, you have a phone for 2-3 MAX, what apps are you gonna have that will help you?
You think i assume our Epics are gonna be solar charged or something?
So again, 2-3 days max...what apps are going to be the most helpful?
EDIT: If you're going to state the obvious (phone dying) then dont bother posting, im fully aware of
that as its the big pink elephant in the room.

comedy said:
I just thanked you when i meant to quote lol, off to a great start. As for your "response", no ****.
**** hits the fan, you have a phone for 2-3 MAX, what apps are you gonna have that will help you?
You think i assume our Epics are gonna be solar charged or something?
So again, 2-3 days max...what apps are going to be the most helpful?
EDIT: If you're going to state the obvious (phone dying) then dont bother posting, im fully aware of
that as its the big pink elephant in the room.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's okay. I'm thank-worthy. As much as I love technology and the cool things it can do... I wouldn't really bother. You're a lot better off learning basic things like first aid and having the head knowledge than being reliant on anything. Also, it's awfully optimistic to hope for more than 24 hours max if you ask me.

klub242 said:
It's okay. I'm thank-worthy. As much as I love technology and the cool things it can do... I wouldn't really bother. You're a lot better off learning basic things like first aid and having the head knowledge than being reliant on anything. Also, it's awfully optimistic to hope for more than 24 hours max if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, you're an interesting fellow -- interesting is the nicest word I can think of at the moment.
I have everything else covered, dry meals, water filters, i have enough first aid kits to aid a village. I have much more aid that i wont list as it comes from ex-military friends, trust me when I say I have everything else covered.
So again, when TSHTF, what are the most useful apps?
I cant even believe im trying to explain to you the importance of having survival apps on your phone, feel like im taking crazy pills or something.
EDIT: and no, you are not thank worthy -- not even close. Please abandon the thread if you continue to think small small-mindedly, on the other hand
if you want to contribute, please do.

They have solar chargers for laptops which will hold over 10 full cellphone charges and require something like 10 hours of sunlight to get those 10 full charges. With them, you could charge your cell phone as fast as you could with a normal power adapter from the wall.
I think they also have $50 range solar chargers which would hold about 3-4 cell phone charges, and get your cell phone charged fully in 3-4 hours from sunlight or from the built-in battery.

I'll take a stab at a serious reply for ya...
Other than a compass, obviously... A GPS program with pre-downloaded maps might come in handy, something like Gaia GPS, perhaps, where you can get maps with hiking trails listed. I figure if something happens to take out the satellites, you probably wouldn't be around to worry about much else!

My app is called an AR15.
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My app is called an AR15.
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Bigjim1488 said:
My app is called an AR15.
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So, let me get this straight. You shoot people to get directions?
Gotta love 'em rednecks.

Thanks Nabbed & Dalmus, will definitely look into both of those.
As for the others, the ignorance is amazing.
Ill list some of my own if anyone didnt already know about them:
BrightestFlashlight
U.S. Army Survival Guide
U.S. Navy Seal Training Guide (which i downloaded & loaded onto my phone w/ a pdf reader)
Boskoi (utilizes google maps (albeit if its still up) to show you ALL edible sources around you, nuts, fruits, berries, even fungi.
ICE: In Case of Emergence (shows you First & Local responders (police stations, hospitals) and also gives you information on allergies, specific medical conditions,
how to treat someone who is unconscious, ect.
Also remember, if you have some steel wool & enough tinder you can start a fire with your own battery.
Small-minded thinking gets you nowhere, open-minded with a dash of doubt is most important.
Not just outright "Oh you think you're phone will save you?"

No offense, but I'm not sure how this thread even belongs on the XDA forums...

Lonewuhf said:
No offense, but I'm not sure how this thread even belongs on the XDA forums...
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Click to collapse
No offense taken.
The right approach would be to think, wow we really do need some handy apps.
I'd code everything myself and not ask a single question but I obviously dont have that knowledge so instead I have to take a gamble, post on here -- & get nothing but ignorant responses.
Except for the few that get what im saying
Nabby & Dal <3

comedy said:
No offense taken.
The right approach would be to think, wow we really do need some handy apps.
I'd code everything myself and not ask a single question but I obviously dont have that knowledge so instead I have to take a gamble, post on here -- & get nothing but ignorant responses.
Except for the few that get what im saying
Nabby & Dal <3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure how my post was ignorant at all, I was kind of thinking the same about this entire thread. This belongs somewhere, yes, but not here. At least take it over to the themes and apps section... And no I don't think we need apps of this kind. If I was worried about something happening, I'd get actual tools designed (and much better) to solve these problems than my cell phone.

you could smash the gorilla glass and use it to skin squirrels and cut paracord.

nabbed said:
So, let me get this straight. You shoot people to get directions?
Gotta love 'em rednecks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's called a map and compass for directions. Gun to hold onto my shiny cell phone that I will wear around my neck as a trophy because that's all it will be good for.
If your really looking for a serious note on this and I am still confused why you'd rely on a cell phone when things go down but I'd get all the guides, local maps, points in interest I.e. police stations, military bases, hospitals and load them into PDF files then save them on your phone so you can have all the info ready. No cell reception required.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Bigjim1488 said:
It's called a map and compass for directions. Gun to hold onto my shiny cell phone that I will wear around my neck as a trophy because that's all it will be good for.
If your really looking for a serious note on this and I am still confused why you'd rely on a cell phone when things go down but I'd get all the guides, local maps, points in interest I.e. police stations, military bases, hospitals and load them into PDF files then save them on your phone so you can have all the info ready. No cell reception required.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd be much better served with a glock. If you want to shoot bandits in the case of a national emergency, a handgun trumps the rifle.
Also, you seem to be confused, friend. If you are going up against a totalitarian government, then a rifle is a good choice. A handgun is much better in the case of riots. Your confusion seems to stem from the misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. You see, you can fight against injustice with a rifle, but a handgun is much more useful in case of civil disobedience.
I have to repeat these obvious truths 3 times over because rednecks really don't think for themselves.

nabbed said:
You'd be much better served with a glock. If you want to shoot bandits in the case of a national emergency, a handgun trumps the rifle.
Also, you seem to be confused, friend. If you are going up against a totalitarian government, then a rifle is a good choice. A handgun is much better in the case of riots. Your confusion seems to stem from the misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. You see, you can fight against injustice with a rifle, but a handgun is much more useful in case of civil disobedience.
I have to repeat these obvious truths 3 times over because rednecks really don't think for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol your a tool box good sir. This thread went from worthless to just silly. Who is talking about fighting the government, riots or second amendment. Apparently your idea of $hit hitting the fan is way different then most. This went from joking around to you getting mad. Why so mad?
I'll make it even simpler, a pistol for CQB/CQD and a rifle for anything past that. Take your smugness somewhere else, it doesn't really add much here.

Bigjim1488 said:
Lol your a tool box good sir. This thread went from worthless to just silly. Who is talking about fighting the government, riots or second amendment. Apparently your idea of $hit hitting the fan is way different then most. This went from joking around to you getting mad. Why so mad? I
I'll make it even simpler, a pistol for CQB/CQD and a rifle for anything past that. Take your smugness somewhere else, it doesn't really add much here.
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I didn't read what you wrote. I just pushed the Quote button.
But I digress. Let me give youa piece if advice, mr. Redneck. Go to your backyard immediately and dig a hole. Take that pos ar-15 and bury it in the hole. Then go to your favorite gun store and get yourself an ak.

Just realized what the "Volume Problem" most likely stems from...

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I have a good indication of where the problem stems from.
A dock mode. Docks have the ability to modifying the volume of the device (some docks even have volume buttons on the dock), and most use either the microUSB port or the magnetic connectors to transmit the signals. It could be that certain frequencies are actually setting off the same signal in the hardware itself.
Then again I don't have one to test with and have no real backing. This is just a hunch I've thought up while watching a few videos.

possibly!! but did this really need a new thread??

zok-star said:
possibly!! but did this really need a new thread??
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Click to collapse
I think we will see a reduction of threads like these when people actually get their phones, people are killing time on here in the meantime.

I dont mind this new thread, it gave me a new angle on the matter(positive if this turns out to be true) and finding this info by topic is way easier then digging through the rapidly growing main thread.
Sent from my X10i using xda premium

I have a hunch on the other hand that it could be radio firmware and how it translates RF interference.

Google employee Dan Morrill has already confirmed that an independent engineer's hypothesis is correct.

oscillik said:
Google employee Dan Morrill has already confirmed that an independent engineer's hypothesis is correct.
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Ahh, well then this topic can be closed =P Didn't see that it had been completely figured out but glad it has! Then again I'm waiting for my VZW version which might not have the problem anyway.
To the other posters, before the link that oscillik posted what's the real downside of me posting this topic? Some people are curious about the problem and a new topic makes it a lot easier to see possible estimations of where it's coming from. Is it really that much of a debilitation to have to see an extra topic in the list??

FBI = CIQ

http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!

crzchn said:
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
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Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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lol.. hopefully they use it for the greater good.... thats all i would have to say, there is a lot of sickos out there.

Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.

crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha ha I agree!
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crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.

the worst part about ciq and other non government agencies collecting data is that they are used by the fbi and cia to share info... which is illegal through direct channels. also, a third party collecting our info and delivering it to the carriers is totally unacceptable. theres tons of threads in the OG epic forums... as thats where konane first found and decided to kill CIQ. i honestly wonder if all the anti-ciq stuff really started there... then the tech pundit sites reported what was in these forums as usual... then the mainstream noticed... idunno. as far as plots to take over the world/bring down systems... keep it analog like good music. all the major telecoms have an open door policy w the feds... so its not like they would need CIQ for normal investigations... and they have a grace period to get warrants after they look at the info... patriot acts sealed the fate of privacy and liberty in this country. all because of a now dead boogeyman living in a cave... good job america... something about a jackboot on a human head... forever...
/rant

nivron said:
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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It's the FBI. You don't think while they are combing through all that data while investigating CIQ they won't "stumble" upon certain things? Or mirror those servers? Or realize how useful to them CIQ is and say they've found nothing wrong with what CIQ or the carriers are doing?
Do you think for a moment the FBI isn't already using CIQ as a resource to catch 'terrorists'? Like how the airlines use full body scanners and the TSA to catch 'terrorists' with the same high (lmao!) efficiency.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/12/12/fbi-says-carrieriq-may-be-used-in-law-enforcement-proceedings/
Not saying you think any of that, just making a point. I'm pretty sure most of us are on the same page with this crap.

I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.

sfhub said:
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
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Actually the code may be embedded deeper than we thought. Not just at the system or kernel level, but further. I'm no microprocessor engineer but doesn't almost every chip have instruction sets or at least some sort of code written into it? Because when CIQ itself says one of the 3 methods of loading it on the device is at the hardware level - that's what it sounds like to me. Literally the chips are programed with CIQ in the code.
Remove that.

then we would have to disable it in drivers

xlGmanlx said:
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
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Oh man, here we go with the "I don't have anything to hide so why should I care" section of this conversation.
I'm not embarrassed about having sex but I sure as hell am not going to let you watch. It's called privacy. Has nothing to do with having things to hide, it has to do with the basic human right to have our own space, time, thoughts, gadgets, property, voice, opinion, and so on.
There are no saints either. Everybody has lied, cheated, stolen, done something wrong that would get them in trouble. Sometimes it was a mistake or even an accident. Does that mean black helicopters should have descended on you to whisk you away to a 5x5 cell without trial? No, and why without trial? Because at this point they don't need a warrant and as per the Patriot Act you don't even have to be charged with something to be held for, well, forever. So no trial is the next logical step.
Just a little interesting fact, the US Patriot Act is actually an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
KCRic said:
snip
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Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......

I never doubted the gov would trace. Glad its gone.

This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete

xlGmanlx said:
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
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You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.

pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us ....
Pete
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Protect us from what?
Sent from Tapatalk

Agreed, and I believe this was a huge oversight on their part. The point i was trying to make is there are plenty of other spaces where the privacy is willing given away with little notification and facebook is one of them. Hell they have been told they are to comply with any audits for the next 20 years.
phatmanxxl said:
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
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pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
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Ugh, that argument just makes me sick. Those agencies are trying to protect their livelihood, which comes from protecting us, but it's not the same thing. Police detectives get promotions partly based on their case closure rates, that means they have self interest in closing cases that might not be quite airtight. Because who doesn't want a promotion, with the prestige and money that comes with it. The CIA was certain iraq had WMD's, and was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, because blockbuster findings like that lead to more funding, which means more turf for those section directors. They aren't all bad obviously, on the contrary I'm certain most of them want to do the right thing. It's the few that don't because they care more about their career than anything else, or the guy that is trying to do the right thing but simply gets it wrong. Mistakes happen, data gets misread or incorrectly analyzed, and people suffer for it. I don't want to be that unlucky person, so I don't want that crap operating on my phone.

Some Ideas on KIN Improvments without replaceing the OS

I had some ideas this morning on what we could do to make the OS and usabilyity of the phone greater without hacking (I rolled out of bed and fell on the floor and then it came to me lol. Ironic right?).
*This will of course involve the browser which isnt the fastest but not the worst.
What if we made web applications for the KIN and a web apps store which basicially is like an android market turned into a mobile version and KINafied a bit and instead of downloads has links to webapps people have found and/or made. I would be willing to ut time into it if someone else will help and if you guys want this.
*Please leave a comment on your standpoint.

I stated this before. It was a work in progress called WebOS. I stated the idea, then people started to get involved and made it happen. Doesn't look like it will be done.

Yeah I know and it was a good idea so I stated it again because for some reason your posts always get passed off as bad, but I think some of them had good ideas.

That's not entirely true. I get impatient with people when they say "Just release the damn hack already" Or "Show some proof" I got annoyed so I gave up and gave those trolls what they deserved: Stuff to piss them off

True true but are you working on an online web app store optimized for the KIN or not? If you are can I be of any assistance?

I brought up the idea of web apps a long time ago but was simply blown off. I now have a Droid charge but still like to keep an eye on this forum. This is a good idea, but I do not have the apps I was using on my phone before I upgraded. However I did post them soif you look up my previous posts you could maybe as then to your list.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA

Thanks I didnt even know they were up here. Can you tell me which page or what im looking for?

kintwofan said:
I brought up the idea of web apps a long time ago but was simply blown off. I now have a Droid charge but still like to keep an eye on this forum. This is a good idea, but I do not have the apps I was using on my phone before I upgraded. However I did post them soif you look up my previous posts you could maybe as then to your list.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA
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Sorry to bust your bubble, but your idea wasn't blown off. I stated the idea before you and they tried. I don't know here you were when we started but one of the main person that was in on this (Alex Williams) Left the train ride if you know what I mean. We made some good progress too.

im not so sure about doing apps for the device as long as we cannot really rely on the case or browser hehaviour.
on the other hand,im making some tests that could let you plug your kin on one pc and access the content wherever you want,through web browser
kinda....kino web version. kin on the cloud...whatever
must ask some guys to see if its doable in windows. but for linux,and probably mac it works. i just tested the kinect samples.
also is all done on javascript so if releases is instantly opensource.
tldr; makin something like studio....but on your pc so you will have to have it powered on, and that stuff

Johnwhat would we do without you. That sounds great. My next suggestion was something like that. If we can add our own apps without changing the software Im fine with that too. But changing the software to something like ICS would be a bonus! Can you give a bit more detail on what your program does?

mmm its too late here so i will just say that this will be just like kino but the interface will be by browser and from any device.
except the kin itself haha,will be the host.
this lets you edit the interface and the code in stuff like notepad.
also using css templates, designers csn change the gui,extend it..whatever

Kinuser1
I was talking about a single game cached on the phone. Here is where I brought it up back in July 2011. forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=15759037#post15759037
I don't see were you mentioned this at all and I just reread all your posts. You didn't burst my bubble because like all your posts you are trying to act smarter than everyone.
WEM If you look at my posts I think I listed the games I gound that cached.

Thanks but what im trying to get us to do is make a website based app store with web applications designed for the KIN. basically just until we can crack this thing.

Sounds good I'll keep an eye to see how the progress is coming I thought you could use some games that cached to use source code to put in your site. I will say I got a lot from an open source site and added the caching code and was housing on a local server die nee. Worked perfectly and lated on phone for songs 12hours with no internet
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA

kintwofan said:
I was talking about a single game cached on the phone. Here is where I brought it up back in July 2011. forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=15759037#post15759037
I don't see were you mentioned this at all and I just reread all your posts. You didn't burst my bubble because like all your posts you are trying to act smarter than everyone.
WEM If you look at my posts I think I listed the games I gound that cached.
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Thanks for your smart comment bud. But, I didn;t post it on here. I posted it on the facebook group. Either way it's the past and it doesn't matter

Okay, well I'm not a member of the Facebook page so maybe you did. Either way it seems like the best workable solution for the kin. It worked great for me while I had my Kin, made the phone pretty useable when not around wifi. However, yall keep up the good work. I still have mine as a back up for my charge so I hope you make some progress. Also if anyone needs some testing I am willing to risks bricking my phone since it just sits in my attic
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA

kintwofan said:
Okay, well I'm not a member of the Facebook page so maybe you did. Either way it seems like the best workable solution for the kin. It worked great for me while I had my Kin, made the phone pretty useable when not around wifi. However, yall keep up the good work. I still have mine as a back up for my charge so I hope you make some progress. Also if anyone needs some testing I am willing to risks bricking my phone since it just sits in my attic
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA
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I think the idea for a "Web store" or something like that, is out of the question. It's a good idea but the browser is slow, Plus we've tried this before..maybe I can ask people to try and do this again

to be honest... develop that would just take one evening.
the other stuff is just making it pretty.
the most imporant stuff is to store it somewhere.
and i may be... "overacting" but i wouldnt bet on someones personal site for storage of my "downloaded" or selected stuff.
Apart from that... well is a pity as kin doesnt accept ad-hoc networks so refreshing could be done from a laptop without internet.
Also:
WEM97 said:
...until we can crack this thing.
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not gonna happen. If electronics guys help us, we could just plug the samsung chip and use the wiring on the right pins, so read it in serial (UART) mode and dump the content into bin files (including possible rom content) like has been done for other Movinand devices in this forum (XDA). Of course no one has interest, and i got no means to do so, even if i had found the samsung documents describing the wiring.
And the alternative, which is decoding what XNA game dev studio says is not easy for me, so imma not gonna do it, and there is no other way to create a installable/runnable app (so no "do half and...." stuff that is on the other thread)