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Hello,
I just got my kin two the other day but have been doing research on hacking it for a couple of weeks now. I am no hacker or programmer but do have some knowledge. I think we need to look at things in a couple of ways based on what I have been seeing in regards to what is working and what isn't.
The most promising thing I have seen so far is a zune hack. This phone is basically a zune with a phone. Windows CE and Tegra APX 2600. I was also successful in viewing the files on my kin two in windows explorer as a flash drive using the same hack that was available for the Zune. The Zune has been jailbroke. We should be able to do the same on this phone. One thing I was looking at is the XNA development kit from Microsoft that is used to program for Zune. There is a glitch in it that allows free access to Windows CE on the Zune. If we could get this program to recognize the Kin Two as a Zune, I believe we could get in!
Another option is finding an exploit (possibly in the browser). Run some javascript which executes some shell code allowing us access to the phone. This is basically a "drive-by-download" which has been done many times on pc's.
I am more interested in looking into the similarities with the zune at the moment but one thing is for sure, we do need more interest in this phone. I recommend asking experienced programmers on hacking forums or anywhere. Also... college computer science and software engineers are always in need of projects. Many times you can talk to the department head and a student could work on it for a project. So, if you have a college in your area, go talk to them. We need to spread the word and get people interested in the possibilities of this phone!!!
Lets hack this thing!!!!!
Have you guys tried asking help from Olipro or Cmonex? These guys are masters at creating HardSPL on Windows Mobile, maybe they can help out with this? It might even be a challenge for them.
NeoS2007 said:
Have you guys tried asking help from Olipro or Cmonex? These guys are masters at creating HardSPL on Windows Mobile, maybe they can help out with this? It might even be a challenge for them.
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Counting that the above it's true, the problem is that we still have no drivers nor known way to "flash"/write the "created" HardSPL or a ROM on the device.
At least not that i know (no experience on the topic).
If they also find a way to do so, i could do nothing less than bow em.
We shoudl try and find some of the actual M$ devs that worked on this project. Surely they are angry about how things turned out and would be willing to dish Anyone seen any docs listing developers?
One word: NDA
Anyway, you dont need any docs, you could find most of them just doing google searchs.
"site:linkedin.com kin phone"
Meh.
Mabey we should try getting windows 6.5 on the device for a start instead of other software like droid or windows phone 7. Its a start after all the software in 6.5 is older than the kin so it might actually be possable if we can find a way to get it on the device.
Have we ever tried getting software or custom firmware or apps on the device through email? MMS? Its worth a shot. My KIN recognizes docx files (No Clue Why But It Does). So mabey some of these sites that say they have kin twom apps arent as crazy as we might think. Its worth a shot so Ill try it. The only problem is email blocks the uploading of program files in hotmail but I dont know about any other service.
I have another idea I just thought of while reading some old posts. Why dont we go back to the old Zune HD approach and try to get the Zune HD apps onto the KIN via ActiveSync! I know its a longshot at best but its a start!
WEM97 said:
via ActiveSync
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You didn't read enough.
And your docx recognition is not well explained. Furthermore, cab files (what you suggest) was tried and not detected.
I guess that's the problem when you come as the new guy, and open a bunch of threads as is. (when there's a big sticky thread for suggestions & thing to test, and you dont apport things but suggestion)
But what about ActiveSynce its possable? Also windows 6.5 OS (HTC Imagio) is older than the KIN software and hardware so it would mostlikely work if we could find a way to get it on the phone. I wonder if emailing the software piece by piece would work. hmmmmmmm....
WEM97 said:
But what about ActiveSynce its possable? Also windows 6.5 OS (HTC Imagio) is older than the KIN software and hardware so it would mostlikely work if we could find a way to get it on the phone. I wonder if emailing the software piece by piece would work. hmmmmmmm....
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You are more than welcome to try anything you want to. Don't be surprised when you find that everything you test fails.
The Kin has very unique hardware, so it's pretty much impossible to take an image of any other Windows Mobile device and try to put it on the Kin. That is, unless you have completely rewritten it for the hardware in the Kin.
was implied that was already tested. doesnt work.
And unfortunately, you cant just put another os in pieces (this isnt lego).
Point taken. Also why dont we try to find the old port KIN Studio used to use for its link up. Right now that seems the only way that we can get stuff onto the device.
WEM97 said:
Point taken. Also why dont we try to find the old port KIN Studio used to use for its link up. Right now that seems the only way that we can get stuff onto the device.
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While there was clearly some kind of communication between the Kin Studio and the Kin phones, the ONLY things that were synced were pictures, video, music files, and contacts. Guess what? We have access to ALL of that through KinO. I don't think finding the Kin Studio port would get us any further than we are now.
Can someone post all the KIN Key shortcuts?
WEM97 said:
Can someone post all the KIN Key shortcuts?
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Yeah, they are in another thread in this forum area.
Do you know which one?
There's a few of them, actually. If you've read through the different threads in this KIN Two Software Development area, you'll find some that go over the different keystrokes, the programnitt menu, and other fun things.
Coolz thanks.
WEM97 said:
Mabey we should try getting windows 6.5 on the device for a start instead of other software like droid or windows phone 7. Its a start after all the software in 6.5 is older than the kin so it might actually be possable if we can find a way to get it on the device.
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Here's a bright idea. Maybe we should um.. I don't know, figure out how to read/write to the filesystem before we put a different OS on the Kin? Sorry if I sound like an ass.
Im not talking about that. I was saying when yuo download a file from email the phones software opens up and allows the file in. So what I was saying was mabey we should try getting small programs on through that. Just an idea.
WEM97 said:
Im not talking about that. I was saying when yuo download a file from email the phones software opens up and allows the file in. So what I was saying was mabey we should try getting small programs on through that. Just an idea.
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The ability to read docx files didn't just magically pop up on the device. It was programmed in by someone, (in other words it was intentional). I really doubt a programmer risked their job by adding in the functionality to open an executable file on the Kin, but you could try.
It didnt read it it just recognized the file type and gave me an option to open it.
according to certain websites, the kin ui was made in silverlight. whether this is true or not i dont know. however i just wanted to say that i will be working on a new kin design interface and will be possibly making a website for it if it works okay. all support is appreciated.
Yes, everything points to the Kin menu being Silverlight-based, however, the IEmobile 6 browser on the Kin does not support Silverlight.
possible solution
hmm... maybe i could make the ui in silverlight, save it as a file, and redo the programming in some like visual c++ or visual c#. we need to find out how microsoft did it and retrace their steps our way.
The biggest complication is just that we don't have access to the Kin OS files. If we did, then it would be almost easy to modify what's already there.
I'll try anyway
im gonna see if i can break in...im good at that so this may not be that difficult.
Good luck with that. Seriously, lol.
........... Guys, guys. This stuff is a lot harder than it looks, take it from someone whos worked on this for a long time. ITS TOUGH! We have none of the neccesary codes and system access for a clean succesful break in. Just slow down a little ok.
Good luck to anybody who tries to crack this phone but I would like to mention the fact that if you can jailbreak a itouch does not mean that you can hack into this phone.
BitPim alternatives
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.
X-15D9W8491 said:
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.
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I would suggest that you make a thread about your question so people can see your question
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The Issue
X-15D9W8491 said:
Anybody know any good alternatives to BitPim? I need something like it that is centered around the file system. I may have just figured out how to hack this phone, but I need something better than BitPim for it to work.
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I believe this is at the core of the issue. There is nothing that can access the "file system" other than what media we store. If there was anything better it would already be hacked. I believe we are going in circles here. If we can get into the "file system" it's hacked.
This is what I know accesses the phone so far(none are hacks):
* Zune software
* Qualcomms QPST(scary)
* KinO(johnkussack's closest to a hack)
* BitPim
Are there anymore to add to the list?
gerrypw said:
I believe this is at the core of the issue. There is nothing that can access the "file system" other than what media we store. If there was anything better it would already be hacked. I believe we are going in circles here. If we can get into the "file system" it's hacked.
This is what I know accesses the phone so far(none are hacks):
* Zune software
* Qualcomms QPST(scary)
* KinO(johnkussack's closest to a hack)
* BitPim
Are there anymore to add to the list?
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Click to collapse
If you're on a Mac, MarkSpace has a Kin sync program. It's basically like Zune software excluding DRM content, but also has a pretty simple browser program to access the folders (not the root folder, where the contact XML file would be found).
There are other MTP explorers out there, that will actually show you the content of the phone. However, in my testing, none of them will allow you to read or write content.
Basically, if the phone is in MTP (default) mode, you only have access to the media, and not to the OS space on it. We'd need a driver to use one of the other USB modes.
ok
ill make a new thread...
Long time follower of all of the work done here. Its a shame that the device is so locked down and no progress has been made. However, I thought I would share with anyone who is interested that its now possible to sync your kin on linux without the need for a virtualbox and windows loaded up.
You can find the fork of lib-mtp at: github [dot] com/kbhomes/libmtp-zune
I've tested it and am able to now sync via terminal or with gMTP. The project was started with the hopes of syncing zunes.. Zune has the same handshake process as the KIN (MTPz)
The background on how it came to be can be found on his project blog: kbhomes.github [dot] com/blog [dot] html.
Hope this helps anyone else who just would like to sync pictures, video, images, songs.
Back to lurking I will go.
Well, it was possible already. No one here uses virtual machines (i hope) in linux but mono runtime.
At least till Kino version comes, so more native (c++ over libusb) approach would be taken.
If you are able to use the standard MTPz way (not our shorcut mtp propietary command), a better approach would be to help here into decrypting the app syncing/uploading procedure, so we could understand what xna framework does in the background and do homebrew launch (which could then help the phone development).
On the other hand, being able to "transparent" sincing would be kind of a good stuff if you could use the kin in software like rythmbox
Sounds good. I hadnt thought abou going at the KIN through Linux before although it would make sense if the KIN was open source. I dont know how much this will help us though.
What he's providing is a fork of the mighty libmtp libraries & tools which is a open implementation of mtp (right one) used by almost any access on the linux environment to mtp devices.
in that fork, he redid the real stuff (aka MTPz) which could be just said as "bypassing" the kin handshake between zune and the device. At least if kin operates exactly like a Zune device (which we think).
It could help by using the kin as a normal (not protected) device on linux providing which kino does IF programs are redirected to it instead normal libmtp, so you can access files and also use in Zune-like software.
On my test field, i wasn't able to compile the software "out of the box" to try on my debian box, so no providing compilation instructions nor a .deb file (debian & ubuntu flavours) or a .rpm file (fedora & redhat 's) makes it just another utility which is non usable by common joe.
What i meant above is that the blog (which i followed back in the day) explains what he did for reversing mtpz protocol, but is not a walkthrough, so we can't just take it and learn, for example, how the kin receives "half succesfully" a XNA application, as i did back in the day in the thread "XNA madness".
better now?
What f we programm an application split it in half and add a part we dont care about for the other half that does nothing then send it to the device with a strip that tells it to complete itself by recommbining itslef on the device?
I'm simply inquiring about how to make a x86 application into an ARM compatible application. I've acquired the source code of an old game, Lugaru, just to practice this. What would I need to start off with doing? I'm having trouble uploading, so you can download the source here: "https://code.google.com/p/lugaru/downloads/list". I have no experience in C or C++, only Java.
Just compiling for ARM doesn't mean it will run in the WinRT environment. Theoretically, getting it to compile on ARM and run in desktop mode on a jailbroken RT device would be trivial. On mobile here so I can't view the source easily, bit depending on how it's written, it will likely require porting from Java to C++ or C# and rewriting the graphics in DirectX. You're better off taking a few Windows 8 Dev tutorials first, honestly.
OK. First of all: there's already a thread about this. In fact, I think there's a couple. They've been inactive for a while, so you'll need to find them with search, but check the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum for "porting apps" and you should get multiple hits.
Second: I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
GoodDayToDie said:
I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
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I wasn't thinking it would be easy, I was wondering if it was possible. Thank you for the information, it was very helpful. I was not aware that CMake could produce Visual Studio project files. That may make this a little easier. CMake does not target Win32/ARM at all like you thought, so I may ask another couple of questions while playing around with the config. Will I have to port it to DX11?
I think anything DX9 or later actually works. If the code already target OGL (instead of just targeting SDL and using whatever SDL's preferred back-end on that platform is) then you could try re-writing it in D3D/D2D, or using the OGL-to-DX wrapper I mentioned.
GoodDayToDie said:
OK. First of all: there's already a thread about this. In fact, I think there's a couple. They've been inactive for a while, so you'll need to find them with search, but check the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum for "porting apps" and you should get multiple hits.
Second: I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
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Actually CMake can target MSVC/ARM. Please check ReactOS's source code. I tried to build an ARM version before so I know that will work.
Can it now? Well, that's handy. Thanks for the tip! Can't test this for a while, but if anybody wants to give it a shot before I have time let us all know how it goes!