Related
And before mods say it's in the wrong forum, there is reasoning to my madness lol. Is there a reason why no one is using their servers to host all the files for downloads, and use all the commercial hosting companies with time restrictions? Reason I ask, is I have ridiculous amount of bandwith/disk space with my hosting company, would be more than willing to provide a somewhat "public" ftp for uploads/downloads. Now, the reason I put it in this thread, is because I'm a MT3GS user, so I would want the file to be limited to only things that relate to it (at least for now). I can create a subdomain on one of my domains strickly dedicated to it, and provide few individuals with username/password to upload all the files.
Let me know if that's something that y'all would be interested in. I know I get annoyed by having to wait for downloads, and I'm betting others get annoyed too. I'm a newb here, but this place rocks, and if I can do something to contribute to this community, I would be honored.
-Blaze
It's inaccurate to say no one uses their own servers and assuming that everyone uses file hosting services, but for most people it's just easier and no one has to worry about bandwidth. An FTP server would be sweet for some people but it would have to be completely public.
I'm pretty sure AndroidSpin already offers hosting for any dev who wants it.
I just thought I'd start this thread to ask other developers about their opinion on the matter.
I spent many hours across several weeks reverse engineering the Samsung Galaxy S flashing protocol and then programming, testing and distributing Heimdall as open-source software.
Based on bandwidth consumption Heimdall has been downloaded anywhere between 2000 and 8000 times (depending on whether the source or binaries were downloaded). I have received no more than eight donations, a very sincere thank-you goes out to those eight people! Let's assume that 25% of the total number of downloads were repeat downloaders, so we have somewhere between 1500 and 6000 unique users. So only 0.134-0.534% of users actually donate. Those sorts of donation rates are barely able to cover the cost of bandwidth, if at all.
I know there are a lot of people out there who consider themselves avid supporters of open-source and open-source software. I wouldn't necessarily call myself one of those people, however I do believe there is definitely a time and a place for open-source software, Heimdall being a perfect example.
I also know a lot of people who distribute ROMs, apps, tools, mods etc. are hobbyists who do what they do in their spare time, and the community should be very thankful of that. As for myself, I work as a independent software/games developer, not particularly the most monetarily rewarding profession around.
As much as we do enjoy releasing free software for the community, it is difficult for developers such as myself to justify the work involved when there is little to no return, after all the bills need to be paid somehow.
My question is this, is it possible for developers releasing open-source software directly to the community, not large corporations, to make a living off their work? Furthermore, how do we encourage community members to give back to developers who have donated their time to the community?
Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
Cheers,
MiG
If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.
MiG- said:
Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
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I don't think you fully understand what I'm trying to discuss. The bandwidth costs are fairly negligible, especially if I'm approximately able to cover the costs with just eight donations. A developers time however is substantially more expensive, and in some ways the effort and intention is priceless
I'm not expecting profit as such, nor do I particularly wish this discussion to center around myself (I'm just using my statistics as an example). I'm just curious to know whether people think it is possible to be a "sustainable" open-source developer who contributes software directly to a community? As opposed to large open-source products targeted towards large corporations who pay technical support contracts.
I'm also not a big fan off stuffing ads down the throat of my user-base. Also, in this particular context I seriously doubt that sort of approach would work, especially if third-party free hosting (sourceforge, github etc.) is used.
MiG- said:
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
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Not necessarily. In my particular case I've simply released a tool to further enable the community to do something that other users (myself included) could already do, in some capacity or another.
For most developers releasing open-source software isn't so much about improving something they own. It's more about providing something for a community to use and benefit from without constraints. It's not unreasonable to ask the community to support you in return. After all there is nothing that forces developers to ever release the software they develop, unless you've used GPL code which is another matter entirely.
MiG-, based on your answer I'm assuming you're saying, no you do not think it's possible, which is definitely a perfectly valid answer to questions I've asked. Although I would definitely love to hear what more community members, particularly developers, have to say about the topic.
RyanZA said:
If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
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Bit of topic.. you can host roms?
DocRambone said:
Bit of topic.. you can host roms?
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Until someone stops me, sure.
RyanZA said:
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.
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I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.
Benjamin Dobell said:
I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.
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Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.
RyanZA said:
Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.
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Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
However advertising in a free application is slightly different than selling an application and it does have a lot more potential to succeed. However depending on what you mean by "putting up a popular open source application" I might have moral issues with that. Unless the popular application is your own or you've substantially modified (added a UI etc) to an existing piece of open-source software. Although a lot less likely to happen if your app is free, if it is open-source there is still the chance someone else will distribute it for free, unless of course the non-code assets aren't open.
I definitely do believe that at the moment it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to live off the type of open-source software I initially described. It's a bit saddening though to realise how massively one falls short, hopefully this will change in the future.
About those donations. If I would use it, I would probably donate.
I worked my a** of for the community, providing ROMs and kitchens for 3 years for the HTC S710 and S740 and I got about 4 or 5 donations over that period of time. Sometimes it get's very frustrating, but hang in there, it's worth it after all (there would be no WM 6.5 on the Vox or the Rose without me (dare I say that ), but I wanted it anyway, so I made it and just released it for others as well)!
PS: SAP r3 is open source and it sells veeeeeery good
I think the community can recognize such invaluable work & devote a part of their donations to them, if they are using his software & really think its worth.
I think however small percentage it could be, it would make the developer feel wanted & make him continue devoting his valuable time.
I just read an article either today or yesterday regarding a conference of software developers for android community, & when one developer went to the podium & said he is earning a steady $1-$2 per day, people actually laughed. He retorted, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD. Android hasn't penetrated the markets YET like iPhone. So awareness & earnings are still low.
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
Just my 2 cents worth.
PS : In continuation to RyanZA's talk, I would like to mention that if you think you have something worth using, MAKE A LOT of noise about it. THAT's how people notice, use & donate. No one can understand a software's worth until you tell them. Like some WWii prime minister said, if you want the world to understand what you are telling, tell it like you are telling a donkey.
Ben, I think you need to differentiate between recognition, fame & money. Ideas are many have you tried http://www.ideaken.com/ ?
Benjamin Dobell said:
Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
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Most companies "built on open-source" provide binaries, and real support for those binaries, and earn a living from that. In an enterprise environment giving support can earn a lot of money (mainly because a lot of companies have policies to only use software/hardware that has decent support). On my last job we had to use a really crappy software, just because the (really) good alternative didn't had a support center in our country.
For the casual users: the marketplaces + ads are a good place to start. If you manage to create something that casual users will use, then it might pay of. Those users don't actaully care about the software being FOSS or not. Actually there aren't many people who care how free an application really is (except for most people working in IT or similar)
If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.
ragin said:
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
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And give users the ability to think they are actually a power user. Most people here at xda can't write even simple scripts, but they do want to try out new and experimental stuff. (on the other hand there are a lot of users who want things that just work, for them give a simple gui saying: "DO DA STUFF")
EarlZ said:
If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.
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I hate when people upload source code to megaupload. There's github, code.google.com and sf.net. sf.net is although quite old now, the other too are still great when it comes to hosting FOSS stuff.
Github is even nicer since they've added a big "Download" button for the end users.
Has XDA thought of the the idea of hosting uploads for devs?
Obviously there will be a cost of some kind due to bandwidth and space issues and I am not sure what xda site/server infrastructure consists of either or whether it could handle it.
I have been noticing alot of devs in a bind since latest issues with upload hosting companies getting shutdown or closing as well as dropbox and other means having bandwidth levels exceeded here over past weeks events.
There could be no copyrighted or pirated material and it would have to be monitored in some fashion in order not to jeopardize xda owners or the site.
Just a thought in trying to help users and devs out.
Thanks for listening to my far fetched idea.
XDA doesn't host roms due to possible legal issues. As Modding any OS other then AOSP is in violation of copyright rules. We slide by due to not hosting any roms here.
It would be nice, as lots of upload sites are closing (like megaupload, fileserve, ecc)
Well at least it would be useful to upload all things on multiupload so that you won't have problem in finding a download source, even if some hosters are closed...i noticed that many devs already do this, just spread the word
Free Hosting
Hello everyone:
I created a year ago WingedBox. It is a great place to upload files for free up to 4Gb.
Do not hesitate of registering and using it for Roms, Pits, Kernels and such.
We don´t penalize free members, you have full bandwith and no counter time before downloading.
Hope this helps!
With the demise of Megaupload and the discontinued sharing services of sites like Filesonic, 4Shared, Fileserve and Filepost, what will be the fate of sharing files for Android? I'm sure many sites will follow in the same footsteps as others so what would our alternatives be as a community?
All the other sites you named... They are being shut down as well?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium App
charlieb620 said:
All the other sites you named... They are being shut down as well?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
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They have reverted to a system where you can only download what you yourself uploaded.
charlieb620 said:
All the other sites you named... They are being shut down as well?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium App
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Most of them have totally disabled any type of file sharing and some have enabled only uploading and downloading your own content. Most other sites will probably do the same thing.
I doubt file sharing sites as we know it will disappear altogether. The problem with MegaUpload was that they were actually guilty as all hell and they knew it. Employee emails showed that they knew that most of their subscribers share copyrighted works and even the employees themselves would share pirated stuff with each other. That along with their size was why the feds went for them.
I suspect that the sites that have taken down their sharing features have the same problem (their internal communications show that they acknowledge and encourage piracy on their sites) so they are doing whatever they can to minimise the damage. Other sites have shut down their "uploader rewards programmes" which can be used against them in court to prove that they are encouraging and profiting directly from piracy.
Now what the smarter sites have to do is avoiding the mistakes that these sites have made and comply swiftly with takedown notices and stay under the radar. Because of the MU case we'll probably see a huge drop in pirated stuff on file sharing sites for a while (I'm sure many uploaders/subscribers of MU are getting cold feet since the feds pretty much now have all their details) but for legitimate users there really is nothing to worry about.
The only solution will be back to BBS, IRC and FTP server?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
After everything got censored, the DarkNet will emerge.
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet
After reading about Darknet, I feel like we need to start wearing neon outfits with spikes, drive around in battle cars and talk to martian woman with three boobies
I use Dropbox to host a lot of tweaking files. The links on my Downloads page are all served by Dropbox.
I also have Box and Minus accounts but have yet to use them. Wishing I grabbed the 50gb of Box storage when it was available
Not that I'm hosting pirated content but how does the Government's reach extend into servers like Dropbox, Box, and Minus?
Zacisblack said:
With the demise of Megaupload and the discontinued sharing services of sites like Filesonic, 4Shared, Fileserve and Filepost, what will be the fate of sharing files for Android? I'm sure many sites will follow in the same footsteps as others so what would our alternatives be as a community?
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Are you asking which sites would be best to pirate Android apps now that some file sharing sites are shutting down? Isn't that against the TOS of this site?
EP2008 said:
Are you asking which sites would be best to pirate Android apps now that some file sharing sites are shutting down? Isn't that against the TOS of this site?
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I'm pretty sure he is talking about ROMS and other mods, not illegal content.
Ftp's, irc and newsgroup's will be used to file share the same as before those http sites existed.
Dropbox is good, I use it all the time.
Sent from Mobile..
**** Ripple said:
I'm pretty sure he is talking about ROMS and other mods, not illegal content.
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If the content is legal, there are hundreds of options for hosting and sharing files. Only those hosting illegal files need to worry.
Hello everyone,
There is a known issue that most cloud share sites like dropbox and box.net loose sharing due to bandwidth allocation issues.. with that said, I have a offer for you if you need to share development files here.
I am a technology solutions provider for the whole region where I live, (in the united states) and I offer you my personal site http://hazard1nc.com it has limited bandwidth for now, but the more people sign up for accounts using my link provided in the first post on my site, you will notice that it says it will give me more features, theses features include bandwidth and more storage, its my dream ultimately to self host but due to new baby being born and taking care of 6 people hinder such dreams for now.
So if you need storage and bandwidth, I rarely use my site as I'm busy running my business and being a family man, if I can help out with this, I'd be happy to do so! So thanks for reading and I hope that this can help you.
Sent from my SGH-I927
Are you offering housing space for development?
I am offering a place to share, I don't have much to offer in terms of anyway to have a CVS repo or anything, but I am offering a place to put your final test projects for members both here and there to test on. If it was self hosted (money issues) I'd offer what more I could.
Sent from my SGH-I927
Hell if you can make the site work for development purposes and give me feedback on plugins and such that I should add, I'd be happy to listen.
Sent from my SGH-I927
hazard1nc said:
I am offering a place to share, I don't have much to offer in terms of anyway to have a CVS repo or anything, but I am offering a place to put your final test projects for members both here and there to test on. If it was self hosted (money issues) I'd offer what more I could.
Sent from my SGH-I927
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If it's a money making site then I'm afraid that isn't allowed here on XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2
Its not about making money, I am doing it out of the kindness of my heart and funding it myself. I just said that I don't have the funds currently.
I won't turn away donations, the site itself was just a way to share my tech interests with my local community freely offering tips and tricks for their computer needs as I am the only technology consultant around for 100 miles.
In reality, I just don't have time, I was going to post my local services on a page but if that makes it bad for helping people here then I won't
Sent from my SGH-I927
hazard1nc said:
Its not about making money, I am doing it out of the kindness of my heart and funding it myself. I just said that I don't have the funds currently.
I won't turn away donations, the site itself was just a way to share my tech interests with my local community freely offering tips and tricks for their computer needs as I am the only technology consultant around for 100 miles.
In reality, I just don't have time, I was going to post my local services on a page but if that makes it bad for helping people here then I won't
Sent from my SGH-I927
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Would you happen to be able to give Team Aurora (ItsMeBdon, Shawn, me) a part of your site where we can upload? We're nearing our Dropbox limit and don't really have any other options :|
Thanks!
I kinda jumped before looking, id be happy to assist but my host caps uploads at 8mb if you can keep it in that range I'd be happy to, I'm looking for another host and might have found one, keep in touch with me and I will do my best. I gotta make sure they don't cap my uploads to the server but I'd be happy to once I get the right host
I927UCLG9 Stock ICS 4.0.4
keyboard back light fix
super user 3.1.3 ARM Signed
CWMR Touch 6.0.0.1
Aquethys said:
Would you happen to be able to give Team Aurora (ItsMeBdon, Shawn, me) a part of your site where we can upload? We're nearing our Dropbox limit and don't really have any other options :|
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as that goes, there are many hosts out there, I'll compile a list if you want, I am a tech consultant and solutions provider so its in my nature to do this just gimme a few or let me figure out my upload limitations I will get this all sorted and once done we will be in business
I927UCLG9 Stock ICS 4.0.4
keyboard back light fix
super user 3.1.3 ARM Signed
CWMR Touch 6.0.0.1
Okay guys I'm sorry it took me so long, I found a new host but can't take my domain with just yet to it.. not going into details why, but if you want me to host your projects, I will be happy to do so.
I am also surprised that none of you share bigger files like roms and such on bittorrent.. would seem more ideal to share this way and its more safe as it uses hashes to piece the app back together.. anyways that's not the point.
I have a list of numerous different share sites and cloud technologies on this page here.
Most note worthy of the cloud servers would have to be ADrive.com giving away 50gb storage for free for banners, and as long as you set your hosts files just right, you don't even see a single banner or ad, I haven't yet anyways.
I just hope that this helps everyone who working on these projects and I will do my best to keep these site lists current for you and add more as we go along.
I am just sorry it took me so long to get setup, my wife about to give birth any day now, my 4th and its been mad hectic with work and steess, but the site is down right now on the new host and will be for a couple weeks.
Thank you all for being patient and I will get this going for you, I'll put up polls and such so you can help me make the site better for your needs in this way..
Anyways, busy times for me ahead,will try to pop in when I can yo test for those who need a tester, but gonna be hectic more so for a few months, will keep updated on the sites progress and will need some help testing that when able, sign up for that when its more close to the end, maybe a couple weeks more, at the latest.
Current System:
CWMR Touch 6.0.0.1 (Stable)
i927ruclg9 ICS 4.0.4 stock
CWM keyboard backlight fix
Superuser 3.2 RC3 arm signed
Hazard1nc's Homepage
Free Hosting Solution! - starter hosting solutions for neophyte web devs.
Powrhost.com - unlimited hosting solutions!
Honestly, I'm very glad that people don't host their roms via bittorrent, as it's a nightmare for anyone who's looking to snag something for an older phone. I often find myself in possession of old android hardware, and I repurpose them for VoIP phones or other misc. With older hardware, it's often unbearably slow on the official rom, and the best solution is to track down something custom.
I just spent like 4 hours tracking down a rom for the Huawei Ascend M860, over half of the links were dead, and an entire site where a large portion of the development took place had folded because of the age of the device. With torrents, it's easy for something less popular like an older device to lose what few seeds it had, while a reliable mirror site will at least be up for reasonable amount of time.