Develop Bugs

It's Just Not Fun Anymore!!!

Ok, there is something that I want to say.
I know I'm not making myself popular with this post, but I wasn't very happy lately with the comments or the reaction from some fellow Xda-Dev members lately...
This should be a community, where we learn and help each other.
Where we can share knowledge and cool roms (like Toms...) or apps (like Tene's...) etc...
But lately I feel like there are less real Xda-Dev members which appreciate the work and effort, those wizards out there make for us.
Only peoply always complaining about "the need of BETTER beta-testers", is it because these people couldn't test it before a release and are jalous??? Or people complaining about some bugs, and keep asking 100000... times about why there is this bug, how to fix it, or why don't you fix it?? etc... well, let me tell you a BUGFREE rom most likely wouldn't excist... and if you can do it better, why don't you put your TIME and EFFORT in it and make a fix for it... or better make a Rom and share it with us... let's see if you can make a bugfree cool rom??!!
Or people asking 100000... times when will there be a German version of this rom or a Dutch rom or etc... Or why put these apps in a specific rom? etc...
I'm just wondering, do all these people always send 100000... mails to HTC or Microsoft to ask them, why a specific app is in a rom? Why there are these bugs, why this, why that???
I'm just saying why don't we all just show some respect and appreciation to those wizards. To those whom sacrafise a lot of time and work into a project and share it to us for free. Off course I understand, the feedback we all give to these wizards will maybe help them to create a better version or help them make a fix for a bug. But there is some difference between giving feedback and just being a child and complaining ...
I opened this thread, because I feel sorry for Tom (and other wizards)... if you see the post on threads from his roms... more than half is just crap... is just people asking the same thing over and over again... I'm not sure about Tom, but I know I would get it on my nerves when I made something for a community and this would be the reaction... I would ask myself, if it's still worth it to invest so much time into something for all those people...
I used to looking forward to be able to logon on XDA Dev... but lately, I notice that even I got the time for it, I just don't feel like to logon... cause most likely I will missed a page or 2 or 3... but I'm sure I wouldn't miss any potential information...
This post is dedicated to all those Wizards out there... and I'm sorry... I'm sorry there are a lot off people just don't know how to show some respect to you... I hope I still can learn from you, and to use the cool apps and roms from you...
But I must admit, even I'm doubting, will I still comming back to this forum... or should I just leave it???
Just my 2 cents...

100 % agree with you....
Cheers!

you are talking right out of my heart.
i personally tend to ignore all those "but it has a bug!!11!!1" or "i donated few euros now i WANT that feature and i want it NOW" folks. but you are right: it starts to kill the core of the community.

lets all be unpopular together......
...I agree with everything you say cg...pointing out a problem and making the dev aware is one thing - complaining is another completely.
The amount of posts on this website pushing Tom Codon to release his 4.1 rom was stupid...when its ready its ready. If you don't want to wait - install a factory rom and stop whining.
I also have no problem (we've all done it) in asking a question because you can't find an answer...the main point being "if you can't find an answer" - a lot of people tend not to search and fill the forums with duplicate posts.
So...in conclusion....i may not be a regular poster, but I really enjoy reading almost every post on this site - but when you we are in a position when a poster such as coolgadget is thinking of leaving - we need to pay attention...
imagine what would happen in Tom decided to leave - or any of the other cookers - maybe thats what some of the people on here need before they realise what these guys do.
Rant over

I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.

I am on your side - only someone with your reputation is able to say that!!
Thank you my friend.
We all have to organize and discipline us in order to get a forum with easy readable informations which helps the community.
Not only consuming and defining requirements is here the right way!!!
Nobody does this in relation to HTC or Microsoft - and Tom and all the other devs work very hard (somtetimes day and night) - they should have the change to concentrate on cooking good roms - not discussing the same problems again and again.

Bottlm Line!
That my Friend is the bottom Line.
I always come on here with intentions of helping out anyone I can. I have been testing with Cool Gadget for a while; he and I have the same feelings here. I am literally drained when it comes to trying to read through the release posts.
I lose my confidence in this community when I read some of the statements, complaints and out right rude comments left by some users.
I appreciate every ones interest, and inpatients for the next release, I don’t condone it at all, but I do get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the internet, some choose to be who they really are, while some cant help but to be that person...
In short, Cool has this right on, I would repost it and change the name just to be the first to say it.
Please people, show a little respect and integrity, it really goes a long way

Thanks Coolgadget for posting this.
Even the original rom of HTC has bug's
Can we make this post sticky?
Ps. it's my 100 post

RE: Coolgadget
True, but might some people say this and that cus they would like to help work of the creator, and not cus they want to blame his work. Have you ever thought about that? And maybe these forums are for not only but for this reason as well, to let the developers help each other, let the users help each other, let the developers help the users and MAYBE vica verse.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regards,
Miklos

biou said:
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i also agree, it's not really fine to search in a thread with about 100pages and the most asked question is really "when do you make german rom", "and found this bug", etc it's really true. It's not comfortable to find real interestening threads. And such statements are totally useless for everybody. I like your point of view!

moderators can edit complains & ****ty comment away.
i was a moderator for a long time on a board, we made some rules.
There rules where simple, follow them or get a warning, still not listening, they got banned.
the normal respected members will always follow the rules.
the ones that are *****ing, making lame & dumb comments will eventually make place for the people that DO want to contribute in a healthy way
look at some of the new members their lame posts....
they are just joining to complain, say this is bad, this isn't good... bladiebladiebla...not good for the health of a community imo
serious, they need to give all the guys that are working on things like this in their spare time some credit.
Complaining & whining..... for stuff that is free....what a bunch of assholes

Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.

itje said:
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i can follow you but there is a difference between the guys trying to initiate active (proactive) communication and that one which are only consuming!

coolgadget and chandlercjh
I'm in total agreement with you both in all your comments above. If people would only show some patience here especially with Tom and the work he is doing at this great forum... its would be a very sad day if he or any of the other senior members decided to leave. I don't make many posts on here but I am a regular reader and absolutely love the site. I just hope that more people show respect and an ability to use the search function... and i dread the nonsense we will have to read when we near v4.2 of Tom's great ROM.

Agreed fully
Hello Friend;
I completely agree with you.Its not fair that people who make ROM's and other apps are always crucified or pressured.Many time the same questiona are answered previously.But no one wants to read it,it seems.But another thing to be high lighted is that many people can't speak English well.This some time lead to messages which seems arrogant.But I have to agree the message u posted(I saw it before in forum) is the result of a gigantic ego and big mouth.He doesn't even pay anything for the ROM(forgetting a few bucks of Donations) and daring to complain like this.As u say such people can make their own ROM's and make it perfect and don't stop complaining.
And please remember that there are much more people here who are your fans and looks up to you.So please don't be bothered and continue your good work.
Regards and have a nice day.

My alplogies for my following comment as I am quite new here in the forum as well.
I completely agree with these statements here. It looks very childish (to put it in polite words) what many of the members write in their posts when they cry for tthe ROM in another language (you didn't learn english in school??).
Tom is doing a great job and he is ALWAYS polite. Try to behave in the same way!!!
For the beta-tester critics, I just like to mention that the SW from very big companies is also far away from being bug-less.
To mention I sent 10 bucks please provide me with this or that is ***
Come on, go in a restaurant and buy a coffe. What do you get for this money.
My impression is, Tom is doing this because he likes to do it, to share it and to contribute to a comunity. I call this respect. So, show him your respect as well.
Donate to show your respect to him and not because you want something.
my 2 cents in R-E-S-P-E-C-T,
g-fall

Try to imagine XDA WITHOUT Tom
Hi there,
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.
We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
In a recent post (some of you might even remember that) I have publicly suggested Tom to go to the beach instead of "wasting" his time following useless remarks of some outstandingly tactless XDA forum members.
All this TO NO AVAIL... Tom is a big-hearted and professional young man who LOVES EVERYBODY, kind and mean alike, generous and stingy alike!
Tom insisted and decided to continue HELPING EVERYONE 4 FREE... Isn't that magnificent?!?
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
In the "Donations to Tom Codon" thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1471616&posted=1#post1471616) I have just posted how important nice and encouraging words are to Tom... I would almost dare to define them just as valuable as generous financial donations.
I thank you all once more for the understanding and support shown so far (and OBVIOULSY for the one you will keep on showing ) and I wish you a great day.
SiperX

I completely agree with the comments made in this post and I apologise for not having any input myself. Tom does indeed make some great roms that make the XDA Orbit/P3300, or whatever you want to call it, a far more useable piece of technology. I am surprised that the likes of O2, T-Mobile or HTC haven't jumped at the chance to showcase how enthusiasts are developing and pushing the boundaries with their technology.
I do think that one of the problems is language and that some people, whose first language is not English, may come across as quite rude when they perhaps don't mean to. This does not excuse peoples inability to use the search function or the ones that are blatantly rude and I would suggest that the mods here clamp down and ruthlessly delete both the rude posts and those that ask the same questions time and time again. Perhaps a sticky in the most common languages on how to use the search function might go some way to highlighting the problem and how it is ruining the forum.
I am not saying that there are not faults with the roms and that Tom does not require feedback; all I am saying is that those that can not offer useful input, who are rude or constantly demand things are not actively allowed to ruin threads.
My life with the Orbit would be far less interesting without Tom's work.
Many thanks and I will donating come payday.

What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi SiperX and Coolgadget I can only request you to ignore those NASTY & RUDE comments as there are always some ants in heaven.Either we can put negative points for such whiners after a level they will be banned or just ignore it.I kindly request you not to be affected by these remarks by some IDIOTS who think they can have their way.
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For this I consider you and others who male this forum a big contribution.But please remember there are many who admire you too.I admire Tom and his works.Not just him the forum itself and many volunteers who make apps in their free time and distribute it freely.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that day never comes.Is there anything we can do to help you?

FYI
this matter seems resolved

A complaint about this section of XDA-DEVS. (Development and Hacking)

quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.

It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...

I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.

djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.

Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...

I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?

I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.

I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents

hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev

djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!

people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.

As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.

Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave

i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that man said it better than i ever could.

l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10

djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.

It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.

DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.

Building my own ROM from AOSP

Hey all,
Just curious - are there any tutorials anywhere that walk you through building your own ROM for the EVO from the AOSP project? I'd like to get into building my own so that I don't have to rely on other's updates, etc.
Thanks!
Ricky

**CLICK HERE** for the search feature

Concordium said:
**CLICK HERE** for the search feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? Does everyone need to include the line, "I've already tried searching." in the original post so that an absolutely unnecessary and obvious answer isn't the first one posted? If so, then..
I've already tried searching.
I continue to come up with bull**** posts about building AOSP for other phones. I've searched all morning and haven't come up with anything, hence, the creation of the thread. Thanks for attempting to be a smartass, though.

UndeadCircus said:
Seriously? Does everyone need to include the line, "I've already tried searching." in the original post so that an absolutely unnecessary and obvious answer isn't the first one posted? If so, then..
I've already tried searching.
I continue to come up with bull**** posts about building AOSP for other phones. I've searched all morning and haven't come up with anything, hence, the creation of the thread. Thanks for attempting to be a smartass, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes, it would help that we know you've already searched. Forgive me for seeing that the vast majority of people who post questions do so without searching and not knowing that you, miraculously, were not amongst said majority. Thanks for succeeding at being an ungrateful prick.
And just an FYI, seeing as how you apparently have no experience on the topic, at least that's what your poorly specified post implied, you would be able to learn a lot about the process of creating your own ROM from the search results I posted. Just because it doesn't say "HTC Evo" on it doesn't mean there is no experience or wisdom to be gained from it. Try doing what the rest of us do. Read what resources are available and then start experimenting with it until you can find someone who can give more specific direction. There will be difference between phones but you can still get the basis for working with Android based systems. Otherwise, we'll be seeing another thread like this from you when you get a new phone. I tried to help as best I could. I'm sorry it wasn't to your satisfaction.

Concordium said:
Actually yes, it would help that we know you've already searched. Forgive me for seeing that the vast majority of people who post questions do so without searching and not knowing that you, miraculously, were not amongst said majority. Thanks for succeeding at being an ungrateful prick.
And just an FYI, seeing as how you apparently have no experience on the topic, at least that's what your poorly specified post implied, you would be able to learn a lot about the process of creating your own ROM from the search results I posted. Just because it doesn't say "HTC Evo" on it doesn't mean there is no experience or wisdom to be gained from it. Try doing what the rest of us do. Read what resources are available and then start experimenting with it until you can find someone who can give more specific direction. There will be difference between phones but you can still get the basis for working with Android based systems. Otherwise, we'll be seeing another thread like this from you when you get a new phone. I tried to help as best I could. I'm sorry it wasn't to your satisfaction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was actually far from being satisfactory. Forgive me, but why in the holy hell would I learn to develop for a phone that I don't have? Honestly. Once the source is built and created, what am I going to do with said source? Not a damn thing. I have no phone to install it to. Building for a phone that I own would be more help to me then building for a phone that I do not own.
Maybe if most of the people around here took a second to actually help someone, there wouldn't be a problem with the vast majority of smart asses replying with a search link. Don't try and convince yourself that you're being helpful and expect me to say "thank you." You're far from it.

Search for dsixda rom kitchen. That will help you get started.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

The guy was trying to help you. You are stupid man sorry but people like you desrve ****. He was giving you a link, you should ve said thank you for that. With your attitude the only thing you'll get is F..
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

UndeadCircus said:
It was actually far from being satisfactory. Forgive me, but why in the holy hell would I learn to develop for a phone that I don't have? Honestly. Once the source is built and created, what am I going to do with said source? Not a damn thing. I have no phone to install it to. Building for a phone that I own would be more help to me then building for a phone that I do not own.
Maybe if most of the people around here took a second to actually help someone, there wouldn't be a problem with the vast majority of smart asses replying with a search link. Don't try and convince yourself that you're being helpful and expect me to say "thank you." You're far from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. All Android phones run on the Linux based Android operating system. So what on earth could you possibly learn from a thread about a phone that uses the same operating system? Like I said, the phones each have some differences but the overall basis of how the system works is the same. So yes, the threads I posted are helpful. They contain enough information to get you started in the right direction until you can find information that reviews the specific differences that you can then apply to the Evo. If you could get over yourself for a minute or two in order to open your mind you'd be able to realize that. You're the one that came here with questions. Seems kind of naive to pick and choose which answer you want to hear and then whine about the ones you don't understand.
Either way, I gave you something helpful. It's up to you whether or not you choose to use it. Best of luck to you.
Edit: People on this site, myself included, do nothing but help each other. If you can't see that then the problem is not with this site. The problem is with you.

I'm with him
Concordium said:
**CLICK HERE** for the search feature
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been wondering this same question as I pondered to develop my own ROM, this link was actually helpful. Sometimes people overlook things and its helpful to get a second opinion, which is why I believe this entire Q&A thread exists. So it is puzzling to me why would come here to get a second opinion and then ***** out the first person to try to help.
I just can't understand why you ask for help and then criticize help... And this is why XDA needs a "Negative Thanks" button.

Cherokee4Life said:
I have been wondering this same question as I pondered to develop my own ROM, this link was actually helpful. Sometimes people overlook things and its helpful to get a second opinion, which is why I believe this entire Q&A thread exists. So it is puzzling to me why would come here to get a second opinion and then ***** out the first person to try to help.
I just can't understand why you ask for help and then criticize help... And this is why XDA needs a "Negative Thanks" button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only problem with a negative thanks button is that people like UndeadCircus would be pressing negative thanks all the time because they didn't like, or don't understand, the answer they were given. People are a lot more willing to toss out negativity than they are optimism and gratitude. In the end I see it like this; My responsibility here is to help others to the best of my ability. People can either be open minded to the help given here and see all the opportunities laid before them or they can remain closed minded and in the end not gain as much knowledge as they otherwise would have. Either way, I've done my job and the decision on whether or not to take advantage of it is on them.

@OP
There are two threads in evo development about your question.
The author is lithid-cm.
~ I'm a fungi

Petition to Administarator and Moderators - RATS RACE

Dear Moderators,
Please talk with all devs regarding last Mike's post in thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1562603
Below You can find post:
" Just to be clear - my last post was not about users but about competition atmosphere, not sharing, hiding RUUs for even final, release-keys RUUs. If devs are hiding something that is tagged as "final" and "release-keys" and it will be published by htc any day, that means we are in a rats race. I'm against not sharing of "test-keys" software, but hiding "release-keys" one is way too much I can stand. No names here, no offence to anyone, no direct speech to anyone. xda rules allows that behavior so it's legal.
This game is not fair play."
I fully agree with him. Now it's lika RATS RACE

I agree that the hiding of release keys and final builds is unfair. They're from HTC and thus should be available to everyone, allowing the community to grow and for the modding community to prosper. The fact that such items of high importance are hidden from other developers (when they should be available to everyone) is deplorable.
[Off-topic: Still not sure why the thread needed to be closed. Does this mean ARHD is dead on the One X, or is it closed to simply cease discussion within the thread? If ARHD is dead, what's a worthy equivalent?]

Absolutely elmo, it's back to stock for me if Mike stops developing. In fact I've had enough of xda. On the whole it's a helpful community but there is way too much bickering going on, are we not adults here?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

*elmo* said:
Dear Moderators,
Please talk with all devs regarding last Mike's post in thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1562603
Below You can find post:
" Just to be clear - my last post was not about users but about competition atmosphere, not sharing, hiding RUUs for even final, release-keys RUUs. If devs are hiding something that is tagged as "final" and "release-keys" and it will be published by htc any day, that means we are in a rats race. I'm against not sharing of "test-keys" software, but hiding "release-keys" one is way too much I can stand. No names here, no offence to anyone, no direct speech to anyone. xda rules allows that behavior so it's legal.
This game is not fair play."
I fully agree with him. Now it's lika RATS RACE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame, the community would be nothing without the sharing of files, ideas and knowledge.
But although unfair it is though, the individuals prerogative.
I just feel it would be a shame if everyone acted acting like this as nothing would ever be achieved or at the very least things would get slowed down for all. Who cares who's first? Ultimately we all choose which developers ROMs, MODS, etc etc we end up using anyhow.
Very little to being first in the long run but maybe a little Kudos.

Couldn't agree more with y'all.

Can someone clear up whats going on?
Is mike stopping his development?

Wilks3y said:
Can someone clear up whats going on?
Is mike stopping his development?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For HOX possibly yes.
I quote...
If one x developement forum will still continue to be like it is now there will be no more arhd for one x. Sorry to say that, i have to face unfair and agressive competition in my real life, not going to waste my nerves in virtual world too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Plus his ARHD thread has been closed :crying:
All of that work on that thread and good people helping others and some selfish lot out there decide that they want to monopolize something that should be given away readily to help the community!
(Shouldn't be saying this) Want to know who it was that denied Mike the data he needs, so that we can boycott that thread and plead with him to help Mike out)

OniV2 said:
[Off-topic: Still not sure why the thread needed to be closed. Does this mean ARHD is dead on the One X, or is it closed to simply cease discussion within the thread? If ARHD is dead, what's a worthy equivalent?]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad Mike1986 just leaves all ARHD users behind like this!
He's not reliable to me anymore...This is not a fight to be fought by putting the users in the frontline.
The king is dead. Long live the king! Time to move on.
So, what's the next best thing available if it's a HOX Sense-rom?

I understand his frustration to be honest, although in this case I don't see who he is referring to, not seen the final JB WWE RUU anywhere yet.
The minute it appears on another ROM this thread will be full of demands for a release, with other ROM authors saying their ROM can't be modified for 4 days or so, which I pretty sure isn't enforced?

I do remember a discussion when Mike refused to share something, it was the Sensation time.
Sent from my HTC One X+

yes its true even in Desire HD days mike did play this game as well
and this rats game should be banned from XDA
ill PM mike lets hope his inbox is not flooding

I hope that Mike will com back to Us

Electronic Punk said:
I don't see who he is referring to, not seen the final JB WWE RUU anywhere yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://t.co/HwsX35G6
I do not blame him, by the way. Who the hell knows what kind of confidentiality obligations he takes upon himself...
I just suggest that people stop whining like kids.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1954878&page=6
This thread also covers this sort of discussion
Also note D.O.C's post
D.O.C said:
XDA-Developers is about development.
Rules are already laid down to protect the integrity of our forums, with the sole objective so that development persist, no matter of individual or collective choices.
If a user decides to share a RUU, fine, if not, fine again, and here is the reason why: fortunately development does not depend on RUUs, it depends on sources, and, obviously, developers to work with them. Sources are out there published under a licence that allows anyone to modify them and contribute to them in order to achieve a better product, reason why kernel sources have to be posted everytime you decide to share your custom kernel. Android is open source, reason why xda has boosted over the last few years.
HTC ROMs are not intended to be developed over them (ask their lawyers, heck, ask developers around what they find easier, to compile and modify android sources, or stock firmwares).
Now, development does not depend upon sharing. Sure, sharing is a great thing, it speeds up development and makes it greater, but, it does not depend on it. That is why sharing in our forums is a private choice.
XDA delopers started with a group of individuals that wanted to "tweak and modify" their stock roms (some developers I can see around here, and I am glad they are still around). It was a time of sharing and development, and there werent as many "issues" with this kind of environment back then. We all miss those times, but it is time we let go, we gotta move on and adapt to our current circumstances and stop trying to go backwards .....in short, develop a new mentality towards how we accept and deal with our current users. Afterall, we are in a development forum right?
RUUs are propietary to HTC, if they get "leaked" into our forums, well, thanks to the leaker, but under no cirmcunstance XDA will allow anyone to be "forced" to do something that they cannot/want to do. Not to HTC or any user for that matter. We do not ask anyone to share anything. If a user decides to share, we all win, if he doesnt decide to share, well, that is his choice, but we (by we I reffer to us as a community) do not depend upon anyone to continue what this forum is about, which is and will always be, development.
Hope the above does not cause any confusion that we (or I) support nonsharing but on the contrary, sharing stuff makes development greater and more fun, but we do know that development does not depend on it
Have fun!, but please try to stay within our forum rules, since the nature of this subject I can foresee someone getting angry XD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The post above covers this sort of thing nicely!
I dont really have a personal opinion on the matter but think the above stuff covers it well

hamdir said:
yes its true even in Desire HD days mike did play this game as well
and this rats game should be banned from XDA
ill PM mike lets hope his inbox is not flooding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also sent PM to Mike

uqadwe said:
I do remember a discussion when Mike refused to share something, it was the Sensation time.
Sent from my HTC One X+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.

well im taking my ball and im going home,
if people don't want to share that's up to them, XDA is about sharing knowledge, sharing the ability to build your own roms and such. Too many people are expecting others to do the work for them and this is NOT what XDA is about.
since when was XDA about the final product?
i think some members need to learn a bit before they speak! don't expect others to build your perfect rom for you.
XDA has become a playground full of children who want things done for them, ive not only watched the quality of members go down hill since ive been here but some moderators as well sadly.
xda is no longer a source of information and like minded people it's now all about.. " I WANT I WANT I WANT"

mike1986. said:
I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike don't give up on us !
Name and shame the arsehole !!!
Does this include your toolkit also?
Or just ROM Development?!

mike1986. said:
I did but I changed my mind some time ago already. People do mistakes, only cows don't change their minds.
Also nobody here have 3.14.401.20 RUU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mike bro, please check my PM

A proposal for the XDA community to consider.

I'll get straight to the point.
The nature of our Development Forums on XDA have changed dramatically since the G1 days and unfortunatly its a change for the worst, its hitting in my opinion rock bottom with less and less people willing to contribute. Back when Android was born and XDA opened its doors to us G1 users we were all there for one reason. To LEARN!
The thirst for knowledge and understanding was exciting and thrilling, being the first to discover something new and letting it be free and available to all who wanted, to strive to break down the barriers that our providers put before us and set us all free! It was to be a complete geek and openly honest a complete rush for me and all of us.
Just writing about it sends a shiver down my spine I so enjoyed it all back then. But todays culture seems to be one of spoon feeding information to people who have no idea what they actually have in there hands, and to be frank would look at me cross eyed if I told them to use terminal emulator to enter a command! Now dont get me wrong I'm no linux expert I'm not even a beginner but I took time to learn terminal commands for Android to help further our community by not asking dumb questions and knowing what a search engine was!
So for my proposal and discussion as a community is.....
Should we allow the developers to HAVE the Developement forums?
We currently have General forums with support threads so basically if your not a developer you simply can't post in there. Lets give the devs somewhere they can talk with other devs and concentrate solely on development and not reading 15,000,000 pages of posts like 'The rom didn't work its rubbish' and replying back to all these people to try and gain some peace to work.
Well I have had my say and I look forward to some serious intelligent debate on this.

How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.

WCCobra said:
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy. Can you build a rom? Do you know your arse from your elbow? And have you heard of google?
If you answer Yes to all three you're probably a dev.
No seriously you are perfectly correct and I understand what you are saying but again why couldn't we have that same discussion/help/suggestion here? Its basically the same and the devs can check in whenever they like as they already have to in their development threads now. We have help threads here that are basically unused because they are cluttering up the devs thread instead. We need to look at encouranging devs to stay and this to me gives them that and a lot more would be achieved I feel.

Perhaps a way for devs to have a open or closed thread.
Like asylum rom. There is discussion thread and a development thread.
Maybe an option to allow only recognised developers or senior members in a thread.
I agree junior members (noobs) are a pain in the ass.
I tought myself mostly by reading threads and figuring things out.... Why can't they? I don't know... I try to play nice though sometimes the stupidity bassles me.
A blacklist option or a "kick ban from thread" option for the dev. If someone is anoying to other members or just clutters the thread this would be a nice implementation for a dev.
Send from my Omega/perseus powered SGN2

Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

adolfo778 said:
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?

I'm no dev. I'm far from it. But I can totally agree with what you say about it being different from the g1 days. I too get a little... Choked up...
I didn't even know what adb ment, let alone how to work it. Took me hours just to figure out and set up.
After rooting and handling updates for all my buddies phones plus my own... I'm a little more comfy. But I can't build a ROM.
There definatley a problem with people not reading. I mean... "Does cam work on this ROM?" Its answered on every page. I've seen it answered 3 posts before the question was asked.
Xda-Etiquette got lost somewhere along the way. Some things are too advanced for new android users. If it was, I didn't touch. New members don't think like that.
Read read read. Post in general or q&a. Don't clutter up dev threads with "thanks" and "help... I brick!".
Learn what a brick is. Lol.You don't have to be the first with s-off when you don't even know what it means. Wait til it becomes easier. Don't lose a device cuz you want to be on the cutting edge but don't even know what fastboot means.
Bs in the other topics. When you click that "android development" button, keep your mouth shut and read. Nothing most of the xda users, myself included, can say would be productive and helpful to devs.
And to end... I still <3 xda.
Sent from my One S using xda app-developers app

DisruptiveMind said:
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

adolfo778 said:
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again they can! They just do it in here instead when the devs need a laugh. All help and dumb questions can be answered here in the General Forum meaning people would actually be more likely to read at least something of the first post in the Development Forum because its not as daunting knowing there is another 100 pages of posts to read following it.

Did you remember to fastboot flash the boot.img?

Thx for this thread, it always helps to discuss issues if they occur. In any case there is no need for closed dev threads @ XDA, since this would lead to believe we are only developing for our own pleasure. Reality is we all enjoy to push the envelope and share it with other guys in the forum. We all need and want feedback, so it`s not a problem XDA can solve.
All we can do is try to educate users, that we are happy to help them as long as they try to search for answers first either in the thread, on XDA or Google. Users in dev thread need also understand the following:
All custom ROM`s have bugs (so do stock ROM`s)
Not all these bugs are ROM related, in many cases the problem sits in front of the device.
If it`s a real bug, just report it, but don`t be demanding. Most of us just publish stuff here for pure pleasure of sharing and cause we are proud, that we could enhance the user experience with new features.
Users really need to understand, that we don`t have an obligation to update stuff in a certain time frame. We do that in our free time and it`s just a hobby.
Users should especially behave in a friendly manner and be respectful with everyone in the threads.
So bottom line - don`t expect XDA to solve the issues, we as a community must learn to respect each other and understand there`s more important stuff in life then a phone.
Edit: Maybe except the new ONE :laugh::angel::silly:

Well again I find myself saying all that can be done here, I never once said I wanted the Development thread closing or to create a nature of 'building for themselves' we could all still have access and well would need it to download roms so I don't understand where you are coming from on that point. Why do we have a support thread in General if the support is offered in the roms thread?
And to be honest as we need to be I have seen you yourself getting annoyed by the questions that pop up time and time again as has many other devs leading to yet more and more posts about ego wars and the tiredness of answering the same thing again and again and again. Simply let that stuff stay in here otherwise not only is General but Q&A forums seem to be somewhat pointless as no matter how hard you try being nice about it users will never learn. A place where real Developers can go and know the community takes care of the 'silly' stuff, as a developer yourself I would assume you would appreciate not having to spend so much time reading all the pointless posts that appear. You say rightly that you do this as a hobby and in your free time so wouldn't it be better if you knew you had somewhere to get away from it so to speak and spend that time doing work on your rom/s?

The stupid questions are just plain laziness. I'm basically a noob, this is my first android phone and I just got it last October. I can't remember even asking any questions, maybe as couple, literally. I'm usually the one helping out people who have been using android longer than me. In October, I remember having to look up what a kernel even was. Lol. So, yeah, people just have you seriously just read more, but don't just follow steps, try to understand what you are actually doing. Just following steps, you won't learn nothing.
HTC_One_S | Xparent_ICS_Blue_Tapatalk 1.06_Hboot_Downgrade | Root_Box | Bubba_Kernel_2.8b | S-OFF

I don't think things will ever change. There are always going to be lazy, entitled noobs who want to be spoon fed. Changing that I think would be a losing battle. I'm not saying we should encourage them, but fighting and flaming simply won't ever change things. I think we should simply continue helping those who've shown they have no problem making the effort to help themselves and ignore the ones who want everything handed to them.