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New windows phone 8 features detailed - Windows Phone 7 General

Windows Phone 8 is looking real nice!!!
"Hardware- Windows Phone 8 will support Multicore processors, Four screen resolutions (actual pixel counts weren’t specified), and removable microSD card storage. There will also be support for NFC as well.
Platform- Windows Phone 8 will allow developers “reuse — by far — most of their code” from Windows 8 and vice versa in their apps. Also Microsoft is planning for richer version of ActiveSync as a replacement for Zune client.
App Platform extension- Windows Phone 8 will support app-to-app communication, native Skype integration and allows camera app to be skinned by OEM’s. Windows Phone 8 will also add native code support.
Data Management – Windows Phone 8 will feature DataSmart, which aims to reduce, and simplify the tracking of, data usage. The phone will automatically connect to Wi-Fi hotspots when available and Bing Local scout can display local hotspots in maps.
Internet Explorer – Microsoft is planning for server side compression technique as used in Opera Mini, Kindle Fire Silk ,etc, .
Enterprise Support- Windows Phone 8 will get native BitLocker encryption .
"
read full story here

just read this over at pocketnow. Cant wait for Apollo.
Really glad MS is bringing back a form of Activesync instead of going through Zune

rruffman said:
removable microSD card storage.
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Click to collapse
Only thing that matters. Honestly, I get why they made the decision to not allow people to use their own SD cards because most people don't know the speed of their memory card. However, would it really have been that difficult to include TWO slots? One for the internal super fast card required for the OS and then one where the peons of the world could just insert their old 2x speed card that has all their mp3s or whatever on it. From a design standpoint I still cannot figure out why this was not built in to begin with.

"new screen resolutions (a total of four, although actual pixel counts weren't specified)" so our phones will not update?

naix said:
"new screen resolutions (a total of four, although actual pixel counts weren't specified)" so our phones will not update?
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Click to collapse
ALL GEN1 and GEN2 will update to Apollo.

Woah this is going to be epic! Love the integration they're going for with windows 8!
Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express

Wow, that is going to be a huge update...
Hopefully now WP will be ahead of the competition feature wise when it will come out.
The only thing I'm dissapointed about is a Skype app, full Skype integration would have been such a killer feature and really a step forward in how our mobile phones work. Would it be possible that carriers would not allow this?

I doubt that the Gen1 and Gen2 phones wont be updated because of the resolutions. I assume that the future marketplace restrictions will only allow apps that run on every resolution. And in my opinion the current resolution is just fine and I can live with it for the next two years.

sayonical said:
Woah this is going to be epic! Love the integration they're going for with windows 8!
Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the reason I think Microsoft is going to be a solid contender in the mobile fight for dominance. They are going to connect all the connectables. A developer writes an app, basically one app that will work on a PC, Phone, TV, and Tablet. Imagine the amount of developer attention and efforts that will flock to the platform.
Now lets see Microsoft get really smart and give Windows Phone Users their copy of Windows 8 for free. " Promo "

Seed 2.0 said:
It's the reason I think Microsoft is going to be a solid contender in the mobile fight for dominance. They are going to connect all the connectables. A developer writes an app, basically one app that will work on a PC, Phone, TV, and Tablet. Imagine the amount of developer attention and efforts that will flock to the platform.
Now lets see Microsoft get really smart and give Windows Phone Users their copy of Windows 8 for free. " Promo "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't say I agree more that having this uniform eco-system where one app works for all is probably the best move MS have up their sleeve. Any developer who knows the app they make for PC will work on tablet and phone's as well immediately should serve as a huge incentive to develop, and fast. An ace card up from Google & Apple I guess, though tbh as an Android user, we aren't short of apps. Hopefully though it closes the gap, especially come may when my upgrades due, getting bored of the UI of Ice Cream Sandwich already and iPhones just aren't for me at the moment. Should be an interesting year though to say the least

If this is officially revealed at MWC, sales might suffer from it. Sensible people wouldn't get into a 2 years contract knowing that high resolutions, multi core and NFC are just a few months away. I wish this update would come much earlier that Mango did but I can't see it happening with Nokia just getting back to the US market.

drupad2drupad said:
ALL GEN1 and GEN2 will update to Apollo.
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Click to collapse
Is this statement based on information (e.g. from Microsoft) or is it just a guess?

magicsquid said:
Is this statement based on information (e.g. from Microsoft) or is it just a guess?
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Click to collapse
I think Microsoft originally said all phones would get all updates but you never know as even on iOS some early phones can't be updated anymore. I'd think GEN2 would be fine with a question mark over GEN1.
GEN1 owners should be eligible for upgrade when GEN3 is out though.

This is really huge and backward compatible
In the article, they also state that Windows Phone 8 is Apollo.
And as far as compatibility, they also state
link_at_pocketnow said:
Update: Microsoft insider Paul Thurrott has published a post confirming many of the details that we learned, adding that despite the change to a desktop kernel, current Windows Phone apps will indeed be backwards compatible
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Removable storage, ability to use native code, skype integration, data to automaically favor wifi hotspots.
I was just reading more into the stuff Heathcliff did with running native code. It looks pretty easy (By easy, I mean for devs that have been doing dot net and COM for years.) to make apps that use it now that he did the leg work, but I am thinking I may just wait and use the official one when an Apollo SDK is issued by Microsoft.
Once this is out, native won't be for home brew only.
Hopefully they get this out earlier rather than later. And the SDK even sooner, so we can see apps available that take advantage once it is released.

Death to Zune! No more Zune!
Best news is the move to ActiveSync! Which means wired and wireless access to our files. Also I read native code support a few days ago.
Everything else is so 2010.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

vetvito said:
Death to Zune! No more Zune!
Best news is the move to ActiveSync! Which means wired and wireless access to our files. Also I read native code support a few days ago.
Everything else is so 2010.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
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No.
The whole media System of Windows Phone is Zune. A dedicated application may require Zune Client to sync Media.

Yes, the actually listened. I was going to jump ship but now I will bite my tongue and wait.

Strike_Eagle said:
No.
The whole media System of Windows Phone is Zune. A dedicated application may require Zune Client to sync Media.
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Click to collapse
Sure buddy
" Moreover, Windows Phone 8 will reportedly scrap integration with the desktop Zune client in favor of a syncing relationship with a dedicated companion application. In other words, Microsoft is bringing back a (presumably) richer version of ActiveSync after letting that program die out for the most part."
Death to Zune!
They're bringing back the glory days of the PPC!
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

You guys make me laugh....
I'm still waiting for 8107 and you are talking about Windows 8. LOL. When has MS ever met a freak'n date?

vetvito said:
Sure buddy
" Moreover, Windows Phone 8 will reportedly scrap integration with the desktop Zune client in favor of a syncing relationship with a dedicated companion application. In other words, Microsoft is bringing back a (presumably) richer version of ActiveSync after letting that program die out for the most part."
Death to Zune!
They're bringing back the glory days of the PPC!
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm betting zune will still be around, just not required. it will be a music client only and still have phone integration. They put to much into zune and they will need a music service to compete with itunes. the name will die though. It will be Microsoft music as seen on windows 8
http://zunited.net/rss/?p=84

Related

Anyone seen the article at PPCGeeks.com about Windows Phone 7??
I cant believe the crap Microsoft is trying to pull...
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive”
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like I will be making my next phone purchase based on WinMo6 and Android... Prob wont ever go to WinMo7...

i wouldnt believe any rumors that come out until microsoft confirms it. there have been so many different rumors from respectable sources and they all contradict each other. who to believe? no one

I don't want an iPhone from my Windows phone!

lol. I may use Android but I was looking at WM and thinking "That is a way better work phone than a Blackberry." but after reading those new rumors I am starting to doubt that.
I hope they are wrong since we don't need another iFail on the market but I can tell you one thing. HTC won't stand for that. They will mask all the ugly with their gorgeous HTC SENSE.

Yes but if u read that
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
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Click to collapse
So? I think we will see, because HD2 is running with sense, and i don't thing that official update to WM 7 will be something like that.

Oh whatever!...
honestly, why are you surprised?
Look at the success of the other companies and OS's who use similar strategies.
Lock down the device = enhanced and specific support for hardware, and etc., specifically hardware.
ZuneHD is a perfect example. I thought about getting one (for about 5 minutes) because of that sweet'n'sexy little tegra chip. MS couldn't have made that run as smooth & efficiently on a CE5.x base.
I will probably not get one of these phones either (unless they've not leaked some amazing feature like a free MS Surface Table with purchase of every WinPhone7, haha).
Though, I do wish MS the best of luck trying to deliver Proprietary content and software in a prettier way than Apple. I mean lets face it: Apple tends to slap handcuffs on it's customers and they still wanna dance. Hope MS's mobile department has been talking to the Xbox360's marketing Dept.

-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device
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Click to collapse
One of the many things I love about my phone is that I can change interfaces, get unique interfaces, and duplicate other phone's interfaces. lets hope this is only one version of Windows 7. It looks they are taking the iphone direction - make the phone idiot proof and lock it down

Haha sounds like someone is making fun of us and posts all that sucks on the iPhone OS:
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not
enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.

WM7
Hmm.. I see Microsoft Iphone

Well if that is true then I will be staying with winmo 6.1/6.5 and Android forever The HD2 is such a powerful beast, I hope Android will be fully ported to it...
Imagine dual booting WM6.5 & Android on the HD2 with it's powerful cpu & large clear capacitive screen!! Then WinMO 7 can go and die a slow death, I wouldn't care

UGH
I fear the future also, as many do. (of the wm os) Microsoft ~ Windows Mobile has a niche for getting things wrong pretty much all the time. I read a rather creditable article that the new sync software was to be the Zune software? WTF my Zune syncs wrong almost all the time especially this last time and the other last time...UGH I fear the future of Windows Mobile and hope they get there heads out of there A$$ and step it up. I've had to call Zune support multiple times and also have to yet to date. (again ugh)
~Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.....?????
~DJyoSNOW~
~PLUR~ Peace Love Unity Respect

If it becomes true, then I will stick on WM 6.5 on the HD2. However, things may change, it could be fake, it could be hackable.

this looks fake... in fact i agree that someone listed all the things that suck on the iphone and wrote "windows phone 7" all over it.
these points look like from an US-centered point of view. i mean - marketplace?! it's crap all over the world and nearly empty, EXCEPT in the US. zune?! it has been released only where? exactly, again the US.
no OEM-gui allowed? if that were to be true, htc would've already announced to stop making winmo-phones.
nah, this is fake...

Just a Rumor
We still need to wait and see, this is a rumor. I think most people on here would not stand for an Iphone like OS and would move to android instead if Windows did that. I kinda believe they will have a duel os model and this description would fit the model for the media targeted devices. A professional-like version would keep alot of what we love alive and give us some of what we are hoping for.

Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
But I doubt it is true, those rumors are (at least half of them) fake .

omg!!! no multi-task..

I don't think Microsoft will do this.
They must be crazy to.. If they do this, the 'enthusiast' users (the people currently still holding up Windows Mobile on their hands) will drop the new OS and MS would have to start all over again. Why would users choose for their OS while there are no advantages any longer?
Maybe this is the spec of some limited media/Zune version of the OS, not the PRO version, if these are actually true.
Might aswell be some bashing done by an iPhone/Andoid fanboy that got picked up further down the pipe.

I don't believe all of it. I think those are just rumors from the anti-MS people.
If MS ever wanted to make Windows to be like a MAC OS, they would have done it long ago. I don't think they will do such thing in the Mobile branch neither.
I would think(hope) it will be something like:
Windows Phone = Windows 7 Home (for the grandpas)
Windows Phone Pro = Windows 7 Ultimate/Pro (for the enthusiasts/geeks)

i doubt that there is not going to be any Multi-Tasking. thats what "Windows" is all about. probably all BS

OndraSter said:
Look what Apple did and how successful they are with those iPhone and iPod Touch.
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Yep, but just take a look why ppl are still sticking with the pretty outdated windows mobile. Because of an open system, not this closed sh*t. Seriously, why should anybody pick Windows Mobile 7 with the same shortcomings as the iPhone, when the iPhone got perfected for 4 years prior to the new MS OS ... with a whole more of useful apps.
But since android is a nice alternative with lots of customization-options and multitasking, I don't really care about MS f*cking up Windows Mobile 7. Would be nice if they didn't though ...

The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.

Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.

digger1985 said:
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
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Click to collapse
Honestly, I think windows mobile just need to be refined. It was lacking stability and user interface and hardware quality. The lack of that is the freezes, slow down both short term and long term and ease of use. The combination of improved hardware and improved UI and consistent use would have gone a long way towards core users since most people assume WP7 is WM7 anyways.
The only guess I can take is that they either couldn't recover from the state the code was in or more likely just went the Iphone route. From what I read WM7 was scrapped and Zune developers took over.

why not ask on social.microsoft.com... that is more direct line than here...
i would imagine that they are going to introduce more than just what they've listed. when you are going to give a general roadmap, you would give the big highlights, not everything.

Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?

The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.

well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...

CSMR said:
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-directly installable apps
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Click to collapse
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
Directly installable apps is not something they need either as they will roll out a set package of apps - just look at corporate laptops today, everything comes preinstalled from the IT dept. Now, sure, if you are talking about business apps for "personal" phones for their employees the IT dept rollout will not work, but MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
CSMR said:
-copy and paste
-multitasking
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These are coming thruout the year, but TBH multitasking isn't something used by most WinMo enterprise users. Sure, some do use it for GPS tracking in the background but the vast majority of said users have these devices as a one-trick pony. Take UPS for example, they use them to scan packages, collect signatures and track drivers - that's it. None of which are performed simultaneously.
CSMR said:
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-business-class security features
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Click to collapse
I do agree with most of these though. Not sure what you mean by business-class security features, but other than that they do need to roll out VPN and enhanced Exchange support. VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.

Omega Ra said:
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
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Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.

emigrating said:
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
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Click to collapse
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Isolated storage is a terrible restriction, whether it is local or in the cloud. So terrible that Microsoft had to make limited exemptions for particular sorts of content with special apis to be accessed by more than one program (e.g. photos).
Look you can have office workers who just edit spreadsheets and word documents, maybe this is fine for them. But for serious users of technology this is unacceptable. Just think of the history. You had slide rules and other specific calculating devices devices. Then Charles Babbage develops a mechanical computer which is actually Turing complete, then Turing proves that there is this type of computer that can do anything that is computable, then people built these things, and now we are back with - as long as a device can do x,y,z popular tasks we are OK. End rant.
Directly installable apps... MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
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Click to collapse
OK let me continue the rant a little. Alan Turing did not envisage a system where for an algorithm to succeed it has to first pass the approval of human censors. It takes the undecidability problem a little too far, don't you think?
Anyway, any improvement is good but what is the timeframe? At some point this will happen, unless the public overtures to homebrew hackers were a mistake.
VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.

I agree with all your points.
It's fine not to have the features at launch but they must add them quickly. The argument that some like to use that WP7 is new & to just be patient is wearing thin. WP7 is competing with the IPhone & Android of today not of yesterday, so why should customers bother waiting too long for features already available on competing products? The UI is great but not spectacularly better IMO.
I want WP7 to succeed but the clock is ticking & MS only has a limited amount of time to make it a hit.
N8ter said:
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

N8ter said:
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
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Click to collapse
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....

leowp7 said:
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
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Click to collapse
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it

CSMR said:
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
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Click to collapse
Agreed - but that's a whole different can of worms. What I was commenting on was getting content onto your phone in the first place. I fully agree there should be a shared store accessible by any installed application.
CSMR said:
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
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Click to collapse
Again, I agree. But in my experience businesses (at least here) have free connectivity between their mobile devices and their offices. More and more these days there are no landlines available at all, everyone uses mobile which is routed thru a local (ie. corporate) switch.
CSMR said:
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
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Click to collapse
This is where we don't agree
Power-users - or early-adopters; they are generally the same people - are not generating [direct] revenue and as such their usage patterns are not of great importance initially. What they do do is drive demand for these features down to an average level, so at some point it will become mainstream, but not today.

N8ter said:
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
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Click to collapse
thats so uncalled for.....

leowp7 said:
thats so uncalled for.....
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I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/

CSMR said:
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.

lumpaywk said:
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's no delusion that 6.5 is far superior to WP7, as of now.

amtrakcn said:
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what functionality are you refering to that every other phone OS hasn't had for 2plus years ?
I make/receive on average 1 phone call a day, while I copy/paste at least 20 times a day.

N8ter said:
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. im not crying about anything, just stating the obvious
2. I feel anyone should be allowed to say what they think, so are you, but why the need for the bully factor?

Ok, so here is my theory why it is taking Microsoft so long to release updates and bug fixes. I think the Windows Phone team is currently recoding Metro to run on top of Windows 8 instead of Windows CE. All the updates they are talking about down the road will be integrated into the new Windows 8 platform. Anyone else think this may be the case.

randude said:
Ok, so here is my theory why it is taking Microsoft so long to release updates and bug fixes. I think the Windows Phone team is currently recoding Metro to run on top of Windows 8 instead of Windows CE. All the updates they are talking about down the road will be integrated into the new Windows 8 platform. Anyone else think this may be the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'd be EPIC if it were true.

I'm fairly confident that WP8 will indeed run ontop of Windows 8.

why ?
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.

ohgood said:
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I very much enjoy my WP7 device thank you. There is no reason for me not to want a WP8 next year.
In any case, merging Windows CE and Windows "proper" makes perfect sense. I see no good reason to maintain two completely different codebases (Windows CE and Windows 8) once Windows runs on ARM. In many ways there is no need for a complete rewrite as Windows CE (albeit very old) was always the ARM (or, mobile if you wish) version of Windows - it includes many of the very same underlaying principles.
What many people are missing is that WP7 is not an OS as such, the OS is Windows CE. WP7 is the shell. Porting this to Windows 8 should require much less effort than maintaining WinCE.
Since [most] all third-party WP7 apps are frameworked it also means any existing apps will work on WP8.
If done correctly (and I know, this is Microsoft we are talking about - chances are slim) it would also enable devs to code/design apps for Windows Phone and Windows Slate simultaneously. Rather than offer two different versions the app would adapt to the form-factor it's currently running on.

I think they have to. Especially at the rate the competition is going, they will have to merge. They will have to do it fast, if they want to stay relevant.

from what I've read, many people feel that Microsoft will release "Mango" as 7.5, and then WP8 to coencide with Windows 8...bumping up a version number doesn't mean it's a total rewrite...just that it adds enough features to be considered a major enough update to get a new number. For example, iOS 4 wasn't a rewrite of iOS 3, and android 2.x isn't a total rewrite of android 1.x

vetvito said:
I think they have to. Especially at the rate the competition is going, they will have to merge. They will have to do it fast, if they want to stay relevant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and I'm sure Apple is going to have OS/X on Phones and Tablets next year.
I swear some of you people don't even think this through completely before making such baseless statements.
There's nothing saying they have to merge.
Windows just needed ARM support, which is basically done (and Microsoft probably was working on it for years beforehand - CE already basically worked on ARM and they've supported other platforms in the past) and of course another UI layer which they are working on.
However, this says nothing about the tons of Windows Apps which are optimized for non-touch keyboard+mouse use that will be basically broken on a touchscreen device.
You can use any HP touchscreen computer and see just how clunky a Win32 application is on a touchscreen computer. I don't see a majority of vendors running to revamp their application UIs to support touch, and a UI layer cannot do this on the fly due to the multitude of layouts, etc. used in Win32 applications.
Most vendors will basically have to create a touch and non-touch version of their applications.
That's why Apple is using iOS and not OS/X on their iPad. Icons and Widgets work better on larger tablet screens than Tiles, so while WP7 looks great on phones and certainly scales really well to larger/higher res displays... It would look terribad on a tablet, and lead to a ridiculous amount of wasted screen real estate.

I swear you must have misinterpreted my post.
Who said anything about OSX on a phone?
Jobs already said that wouldn't happen. IOS, WebOS(debatable) , and Android will continue to pave the future. Unless Microsoft does something, and I'm not talking about a Windows 7 tablet.
Windows is slow as hell compared to the competition. Look at Windows Media Center, and loom at Google TV, Apple TV.

ohgood said:
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does not explain why MS failed to solve all the bugs listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9153088&postcount=1
the NoDo update, that arrived so late, shall logically have solved must of the above mentioned bugs/issues. But it didn't.
What are MS waiting for? They behave like they have no competitors.

If the applications are all managed code than who cares whether it's WinCE or Win32?

vangrieg said:
If the applications are all managed code than who cares whether it's WinCE or Win32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some differences between Silverlight on Windows Phone and Desktop. I believe Silverlight on Windows Phone is a fork of Silverlight 3, whereas the desktop is currently Silverlight 4. It'd be nice to see them converge at Silverlight 5 (crossing fingers for MIX 2011). I've heard plenty of rumors that Microsoft is at work on the compatibility issues.

Sure, but Silverlight can be updated with or without changing the underlying OS.

N8ter said:
I swear some of you people don't even think this through completely before making such baseless statements.
There's nothing saying they have to merge.
Windows just needed ARM support, which is basically done (and Microsoft probably was working on it for years beforehand - CE already basically worked on ARM and they've supported other platforms in the past) and of course another UI layer which they are working on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right - there is nothing saying they have to. It makes sense business wise though. Rather than having two teams working full out maintaining two similar yet very different OSes they can have one team working on maintaining one OS running on both platforms.
CE does run on ARM, it has done so for years and it's been in use in the enterprise sector for as long. Problem is, WinCE, even in it's later versions is old tech. Not just from a UI perspective but the core OS is old tech.
N8ter said:
However, this says nothing about the tons of Windows Apps which are optimized for non-touch keyboard+mouse use that will be basically broken on a touchscreen device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They won't be broken. They will function just as they have always done - with a mouse and/or keyboard. You can't take any old Win32 app and run it on ARM anyway, that's not the idea behind it at all.
N8ter said:
Most vendors will basically have to create a touch and non-touch version of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, no. They don't have to do anything of the kind. They can do so to stay relevant - especially if their app is the type of app that would be useful on a tablet, but they don't have to. Just because Win8 will have a tablet specific UI does not mean it will not also have the old desktop UI we're all used to. You need to make a distinction between OS and UI, they are two very different things.
arturobandini said:
That does not explain why MS failed to solve all the bugs listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9153088&postcount=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree, there are still some bugs in the OS, NoDo did fix the major ones. Most of the remaining ones are non reproducible or actually "as designed". Also, many of them are not OS bugs but rather bugs that only appear on certain handsets.
PG2G said:
There are some differences between Silverlight on Windows Phone and Desktop. I believe Silverlight on Windows Phone is a fork of Silverlight 3, whereas the desktop is currently Silverlight 4. It'd be nice to see them converge at Silverlight 5 (crossing fingers for MIX 2011). I've heard plenty of rumors that Microsoft is at work on the compatibility issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but that's of little concern really. As long as SLx is backwards compatible - which it will be, all existing apps will continue to run just fine. Also, with Silverlight finally coming to the Xbox they have all three screens covered (personally I would have preferred a new iteration of Media Center, but there's still time for that) - TV, Desktop and Mobile. The idea is that we as developers can code/design for the audience rather than the platform. Great things ahead if you ask me.

vetvito said:
I swear you must have misinterpreted my post.
Who said anything about OSX on a phone?
Jobs already said that wouldn't happen. IOS, WebOS(debatable) , and Android will continue to pave the future. Unless Microsoft does something, and I'm not talking about a Windows 7 tablet.
Windows is slow as hell compared to the competition. Look at Windows Media Center, and loom at Google TV, Apple TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AppleTV and GoogleTV are Appliance products. Microsoft did have a TV thing a while back, but that's another story. Windows Media Center is fine.
If people aren't expecting Apple to put OS/X on tablets, etc. Why would you make a statement basically they have no choice but to merge WP7 and Windows eventually?
Also, I was talking about Windows 8 (which runs on ARM, and is coming with touch UI), not Windows 7...

N8ter said:
AppleTV and GoogleTV are Appliance products. Microsoft did have a TV thing a while back, but that's another story. Windows Media Center is fine.
If people aren't expecting Apple to put OS/X on tablets, etc. Why would you make a statement basically they have no choice but to merge WP7 and Windows eventually?
Also, I was talking about Windows 8 (which runs on ARM, and is coming with touch UI), not Windows 7...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My choice of words was wrong. My bad. I was meaning that they should do something, something faster than what they are doing. Phones are moving closer and closer to PC capabilities.
Windows Media Center sucks balls compared to Google TV, and Apple TV. I'm seriously thinking about throwing my HTPC out the window. Its embarrassing. I mentioned it because Microsoft basically invented this market, and now they've been left behind. Sort of like what's going on now.

vetvito said:
Windows Media Center sucks balls compared to Google TV, and Apple TV. I'm seriously thinking about throwing my HTPC out the window. Its embarrassing. I mentioned it because Microsoft basically invented this market, and now they've been left behind. Sort of like what's going on now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Media Center is still the absolute best platform out there. Google TV has nothing on MC7. That said, they [MS] have definitely mismanaged the "platform", I say "platform" because Microsoft never saw it as a platform (God knows why?!). WES (Windows Embedded - which is basically a modularized version of Windows 7) should change this though. There were a few MC7 appliances on show at CES earlier this year and if they can deliver they will kill the competition.
From a WAF perspective nothing is close to MC7. From a live TV perspective the other platforms aren't even in the same ballpark.

emigrating said:
Windows Media Center is still the absolute best platform out there. Google TV has nothing on MC7. That said, they [MS] have definitely mismanaged the "platform", I say "platform" because Microsoft never saw it as a platform (God knows why?!). WES (Windows Embedded - which is basically a modularized version of Windows 7) should change this though. There were a few MC7 appliances on show at CES earlier this year and if they can deliver they will kill the competition.
From a WAF perspective nothing is close to MC7. From a live TV perspective the other platforms aren't even in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to know more. Honestly elaborate more. Media Center is awfully slow compared to Google TV. I don't have a gtv, but I demoed it. You can search for shows and the web in a overlay of what you're currently watching on gtv. On my HTPC running windows 7, that's impossible. Starting Media Center is unbelievably slow, and browsing through media in media center is not fun. Its laggy as hell. On GTV its instant.

vetvito said:
I'd like to know more. Honestly elaborate more. Media Center is awfully slow compared to Google TV. I don't have a gtv, but I demoed it. You can search for shows and the web in a overlay of what you're currently watching on gtv. On my HTPC running windows 7, that's impossible. Starting Media Center is unbelievably slow, and browsing through media in media center is not fun. Its laggy as hell. On GTV its instant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you find MC7 to be slow there is a problem with your machine (either hardware or software wise). I'm running it on several HTPCs in the house and there is no lag what so ever.
Comparing it to Google TV is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruits, but that's pretty much it. Google TV does not have a live TV option as such - you have to feed the output of your DVR or whatever thru the gtv box. MC7 on the other hand accepts tuners (either local or remote) and acts as your DVR.
If you press the Guide button on your MC7 remote while watching TV it will overlay ontop of what you're watching, exactly like gtv. The guide is also one of the best in the industry (depending on your location of course). You also get [some] internet TV built in, but more can be added by installing a Hulu plugin. In addition you have Netflix etc.
I will agree that browsing the media on MC7 using the built-in functionality is rather lacking, but there are plenty of third-party apps that help with this. myTV is great for downloaded/recorded TV shows and My Movies is great for movies.
I've been using HTPCs for around 10 years and MC7 is IMO still the best option available and I've tried them all - multiple times

I'm running on a AMD 6000, dual core 3.2 ghz. 4gb of ram. That's more than enough for media.
Have you tried XBMC? It runs circles around Media Center. I haven't tried those plugins you mentioned, I will do that today.

News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.

They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed

Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.

If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting

lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.

Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.

well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?

Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.

emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.

vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...

emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.

FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !

ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.

vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
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Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.

Just skimming the news. Anyone know (links please) otherwise than these claims ?
http://www.knowyourcell.com/news/1219326/windows_8_to_be_the_windows_phone_7_apollo_update.html
Source ^
Text:
Jan 25, 2012
"Renowned blogger and editor of Russian website Mobile-Review has let slip that the Windows 8 update we're looking forward to may actually be codenamed Windows Phone Apollo.
Eldar posted a tweet saying, 'Do u know that windows phone 8 os is special? May be we even dont see word phone here but that's apollo and oct2012'
This was quickly followed by a post stating Windows Phone 7 apps won't be compatible with Windows 8:
'WP8 os isn't compatible with wp7 on app level (u need to rewrite all apps). Thats another os core with metro ui...'
Just what is Mutazin suggesting here?
Will we see a separate mobile OS called Windows Phone 8, or will that be Windows Phone 7 - but a newer version?
Also, Nvidia's CEO mentioned last year that Windows Phone 7 apps would work natively on Windows 8.
Although Eldar Murtazin is very often correct with his predictions, he sometimes is way off the mark. We sincerely hope he's wrong about Windows Phone 7 apps not working on Windows 8.
After all, there are very few spectacular ones our there - surely Microsoft wouldn't want to start again?"

If it's better than windows Phone 7 then that would be great, but if it's crapy then no. I can already see disaster with people having to re-write and re-buy apps. I don't know about MS now days, some one over there must be hitting the crack pipe pretty hard.

Eldar is a moron. It has been outright stated by two much more competent sources that wp7 apps would work on windows 8.

z33dev33l said:
Eldar is a moron. It has been outright stated by two much more competent sources that wp7 apps would work on windows 8.
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Ok, cool, but did you forget the links ?

Nope, no need to dig from a mobile device. Both Nvidia and a Microsoft rep said that it'd be done. NVIDIA stated it outright, and Microsoft said that you'd be able to exit a game on your phone and pick up where you left off on your windows 8 enabled PC. I am interested in seeing how games with accelerometer controls transition or if that will require further support from the dev. Only time will tell.
Eldar was speaking ill of Mango 4 months before the beta was leaked, he's an analyst, if he's right, he predicted the future. If he's wrong, well he's not a fortune teller, his industry is a joke.

ohgood said:
Ok, cool, but did you forget the links ?
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z33dev33l said:
Nope, no need to dig from a mobile device. Both Nvidia and a Microsoft rep said that it'd be done. NVIDIA stated it outright, and Microsoft said that you'd be able to exit a game on your phone and pick up where you left off on your windows 8 enabled PC. I am interested in seeing how games with accelerometer controls transition or if that will require further support from the dev. Only time will tell.
Eldar was speaking ill of Mango 4 months before the beta was leaked, he's an analyst, if he's right, he predicted the future. If he's wrong, well he's not a fortune teller, his industry is a joke.
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Right here is the NVIDIA link --http://www.winrumors.com/nvidia-ceo-claims-windows-phone-7-apps-will-run-on-windows-8/
(date is obviously old. This new rumour in the OP's post is recent. So can't say if this link still holds the same value)
Morons will be morons.

Think about it this way wp7 marketplace is barely catching up to likes of android and ios. Why do you think any developers would bother redoing the apps for wp8. Paid apps maybe but not free apps so MS would be starting almost from scratch

z33dev33l said:
Nope, no need to dig from a mobile device. Both Nvidia and a Microsoft rep said that it'd be done. NVIDIA stated it outright, and Microsoft said that you'd be able to exit a game on your phone and pick up where you left off on your windows 8 enabled PC. I am interested in seeing how games with accelerometer controls transition or if that will require further support from the dev. Only time will tell.
Eldar was speaking ill of Mango 4 months before the beta was leaked, he's an analyst, if he's right, he predicted the future. If he's wrong, well he's not a fortune teller, his industry is a joke.
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Thats a big ass dream. Entirely plausible, but very unlikely to come from Microsoft.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Am I misreading or is everyone else.
NVidia and Microsoft said Windows Phone 7 apps will be natively compatible with Windows 8 the PC OS.
What Eldar is suggesting is "WP8 os isn't compatible with wp7 on app level". Honestly, that would be the most ridiculous move MS could make in the whole WP existence.
That would be so stupid that I refuse to believe it. Unless WP8 had to run WP7 in some kind of sideloaded enviroment and even then why would MS scrap and start over again?

nicksti said:
Am I misreading or is everyone else.
NVidia and Microsoft said Windows Phone 7 apps will be natively compatible with Windows 8 the PC OS.
What Eldar is suggesting is "WP8 os isn't compatible with wp7 on app level". Honestly, that would be the most ridiculous move MS could make in the whole WP existence.
That would be so stupid that I refuse to believe it. Unless WP8 had to run WP7 in some kind of sideloaded enviroment and even then why would MS scrap and start over again?
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Windows Phone 7 development uses XAML from Silver Light. Microsoft is dumping Silver Light. Perhaps Eldar misunderstood and thought they were getting rid of XAML and the development tools of Visual Studio 2010 for Windows Phone 8.
http://everythingexpress.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/news-microsoft-kills-silverlight/
Also, it is possible that the apps will all need to be retargeted and recompiled to take advantage of any OS benefits of Windows Phone 8. This was true of Mango to get the fast resume. All a dev needed to do is upgrade the SDK. Change the target platform in the project. Then rebuild. Done.

nicksti said:
Am I misreading or is everyone else.
NVidia and Microsoft said Windows Phone 7 apps will be natively compatible with Windows 8 the PC OS.
What Eldar is suggesting is "WP8 os isn't compatible with wp7 on app level". Honestly, that would be the most ridiculous move MS could make in the whole WP existence.
That would be so stupid that I refuse to believe it. Unless WP8 had to run WP7 in some kind of sideloaded enviroment and even then why would MS scrap and start over again?
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Hmm....Windows Mobile? Besides its not like they would be losing much by starting over again.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

vetvito said:
Hmm....Windows Mobile? Besides its not like they would be losing much by starting over again.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
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They'd lose support from the developers of the existing 60k apps for sure. Not allowing WP7 apps to run on WP8 would be suicide. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the development environment change to something closer to Windows 8. I just think we'll see compatibility for WP7 apps as well.

PG2G said:
They'd lose support from the developers of the existing 60k apps for sure. Not allowing WP7 apps to run on WP8 would be suicide. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the development environment change to something closer to Windows 8. I just think we'll see compatibility for WP7 apps as well.
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I like the idea jvt put forward up there better.... recompile and carry on. It would on the other hand be a very effective weeding out process to trim down from 50000 redundant /replicative apps to ones that are solid and usable.

Silverlight is .net and the .net libs are platform independent. That means that 90% of your code is reusable either way. The goal is that you can take a shared library that contains your program logic and copy it from your windows pc to your phone without having to recompile or anything. The only thing that then needs rewriting is the user interface lib which must then take advantage of the underlying shared API. Infact it could even be that this is already the case. Either way anything in the future would only require little effort to sort out and if any w8 windows phone convergence happens that does cause incompatability, the mass amount of windows 8 support would be enough to make it neglible.

fed44 said:
Silverlight is .net and the .net libs are platform independent. That means that 90% of your code is reusable either way. The goal is that you can take a shared library that contains your program logic and copy it from your windows pc to your phone without having to recompile or anything. The only thing that then needs rewriting is the user interface lib which must then take advantage of the underlying shared API. Infact it could even be that this is already the case. Either way anything in the future would only require little effort to sort out and if any w8 windows phone convergence happens that does cause incompatability, the mass amount of windows 8 support would be enough to make it neglible.
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Not entirely true. .NET libs are not entirely platform independant. Ever write an app for you phone in C# and try to run it on your PC. Or write it for you PC and run it on your Phone. It doesn't work.
Phones use a compact dot net framework. Windows Phone 8, might supply an updated compact version. This may be incompatible with the previous version, just as the version on Windows Phone 7 is not compatible with the 3.5 version on Windows Mobile 6.5.
In fact, Windows 8 For Tablets is supposed to be getting WinRT.
Here is a negative slanting article, but seems pretty accurate with some exceptions.
http://www.i-programmer.info/profes...3323-windows-phone-7-sunk-by-silverlight.html
I suspect the tablets will also support a dot net compact framework for some time to come.
I've heard from multiple reliable sources at work and through different training companies that Silverlight is done. Development with it is just for phones (for now).
I am hoping they provide some XAML migration, so apps can be easily converted.
Actually, when reading the comments following the video here: http://www.neowin.net/news/former-microsoft-pm-silverlight-is-dead
XAML is coming to C++. With WinRT, C++ and native programming will be in Windows 8 on tablets.
XAML is the mark up language ued by Silverlight. Silverlight uses C#. But, since the programmer uses XAML to define the UI and Silverlight is used to glue it to the C# backend, something else could easily tie the XAML to the backend, so a minimal amount of work would be needed to to rebuild the apps affter Silver Light goes off into the sunset.

What MS meant was Windows 8, not Windows Phone 8. WP8 is, of course, an upgrade of WP7.
They said this because initially they said that crossing apps between windows 8 and phone 8 was possible.

For the folks that though Microsoft might break compatibility for existing apps, a tweet from Brandon Watson
@eldarmurtazin Rewatch Mix11 keynote. We were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
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Here is the link to the same http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2012...paign=Feed:+Mobiletechworld+(MobileTechWorld)
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express

Sigh... Sometimes I just wish Eldar would let his age old hate against MS aside and try digging up some useful information...
He's been such a douché since MS wouldn't let him run the official MS Russia site...

is apollo confirmed as wp7 1gen upgrade ? Or it will be designed for high ends ?