Develop Bugs

[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA

After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.

XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...

Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate

garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
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Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop

I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.

garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome

So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.

Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:

What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98

@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!

-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.

reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
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Click to collapse
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
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Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
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Click to collapse
You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary

sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Exactly.

It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary

garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread

Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
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Click to collapse
Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.

Disappointed on your decision to make a Sony Xperia Z forum before Asus PadFone 2

A dedicated Sony Xperia Z forum before Asus PadFone 2? I'm disappointed for the first time in XDA. There have been a LOT of requests for a separate forum for our lovely device that is already out in many parts of the world. And now you make a forum for a device that isn't even out yet!

Harboe said:
A dedicated Sony Xperia Z forum before Asus PadFone 2? I'm disappointed for the first time in XDA. There have been a LOT of requests for a separate forum for our lovely device that is already out in many parts of the world. And now you make a forum for a device that isn't even out yet!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PadFone is very expensive for what it is, and has failed to capture the interests of developers. The Xperia Z already has developer interest. We add devices based on development potential, and as of yet we've not seen anyone who is in a position to develop that is interested.

You seem to forget that this site is for developers, does not matter how many 'normal' users have a device its all down to the amount of developers that are interested in developing for a device

Pleaseeeeee create subforum
I got the phone from ebay US nd loving it without rooting nd custom rom
But trust me Asus rocks but why the moderators are being unfair for this super hero
Sent from my PadFone 2 using Tapatalk 2

You guys can read reasons why its not created yet, here..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2105207
Go through that thread.. you will understand..
____________________________________
UltimaTIME Clock Widgets, 200 clock widgets in one!!
Falling Doesn’t Make You a Failure, Staying Down Does

Guessing none of the mods are getting one and then there is no need to make a forum. From the request thread this have been much more sought for that the Sony. Ohh well.

Harboe said:
Guessing none of the mods are getting one and then there is no need to make a forum. From the request thread this have been much more sought for that the Sony. Ohh well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PadFone series has had a recurring issue of not attracting developer attention, due to being more expensive than other similar products.
There has been no real developer interest that I'm aware of. That's why there's no forum.

and these?
http://www.modaco.com/forum/689-asus-padfone-2/
Please
Do not think it's that difficult to create a forum for padfone own 2, no industrial and other amounts, but there is interest!
And with your help, and creating a forum of their own, surely that would give him a push ...
And just to be specific, tablet + phone 700E. is cheaper to buy a phone and a tablet separately ...
thanks
regards

DjBastard said:
and these?
http://www.modaco.com/forum/689-asus-padfone-2/
Please
Do not think it's that difficult to create a forum for padfone own 2, no industrial and other amounts, but there is interest!
And with your help, and creating a forum of their own, surely that would give him a push ...
And just to be specific, tablet + phone 700E. is cheaper to buy a phone and a tablet separately ...
thanks
regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tbh I got a nexus 10 and phone for much less than 700 EUR...
I looked at the looked forum, seems a dead device... There are 6 threads. But if we add a device, mods must be assigned, and various other things done. As such, we don't add nearly as many niche devices as users would like.
I am afraid you've not really showed interest - do you have, for example, an established CM maintainer who has got source built CM running? These are the kinds of things that show developer interest

Asus padfone 2 subforum please!
Asus padfone 2 subforum please!

+1 for sub forum

+ 100000 sub forum padfone 2
That would greatly help the devs will be encouraged to get roms, etc and assume it would help to sell more ....

+1 for adding subforum

Guys, you don't need to be asking for a forum for the Padfone 2 because;
1) This is the wrong thread to be requesting a forum be added for it. The relevant thread is stickied at the top of this very forum AND
2) One of the admins has already explained that a forum won't be added unless there's proof of strong development for this device.
If, as already suggested, there was an established CM maintainer who has got CM running on this device, then that would likely greatly increase your chances of having a forum created.
Also, don't say that the Padfone 2 will get more developers once it has a forum because that's a load of rubbish. The device is what intrigues/entices the developers. NOT whether there's is a specific sub-forum or not.
There is a Miscellaneous Android Development forum which is perfect for your needs as you can post any development for the Padfone over there.

In facebook there is a portuguese group for this device! Guess how many of the people there actually develop something?
In 1500 people... 0 roms, themes, or whatever! So yes, i am quiet happy that they opened the forum for XPeria Z

is not expensive if u think that u get a phone and a table i buy mine and belive me is fantastic!

UP!

Some of you just don't get it. You're not getting the forum for the same reason I'm not getting a forum for the Kyocera Rise (except I'm not demanding one like I have some natural right to it). Do any of you have any evidence of custom ROM's, development, etc. for the Padfone?

dibblebill said:
Some of you just don't get it. You're not getting the forum for the same reason I'm not getting a forum for the Kyocera Rise (except I'm not demanding one like I have some natural right to it). Do any of you have any evidence of custom ROM's, development, etc. for the Padfone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there are some evidences, take a look:
root: http://www.modaco.com/topic/360416-superboot-padfone-2-root-solution/
cwm: http://www.modaco.com/topic/360432-r1-customised-recovery-image-for-the-asus-padfone-2/
deodexed rom: http://www.modaco.com/topic/360444-deodexed-wwe-rom-for-the-padfone-2/
"custom rom": http://www.modaco.com/topic/360458-pre-mcr-wwe-rom-for-the-padfone-2/
Finally the guy who is making this come true is a XDA member since 2003, his nick is PaulOBrien
do you need some more?

rafael_mfr said:
Finally the guy who is making this come true is a XDA member since 2003, his nick is PaulOBrien
do you need some more?
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Click to collapse
Yes. If it's just Paul you can easily use modaco as it's his forum.
Guys stop crying in here. XDA is a developers site.
If you really want to have a subforum then start developing for it.
That's the only way you'll get a dedicated forum. Constantly making +1 posts in here isn't helpful.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

I'm not a developer!

Mods.
My apologies, I wanted to read the thread on unlocking a Motorola Droid Turbo but I thought you had to join to do so. I will not be contributing anything and I do not plan on becoming a developer for Android Apps as cool as that might be.
So. please take whatever action is deemed appropriate with my registration.
Thank you very much for the thread about unlocking a Motorola Droid Turbo.

You don't have to be a developer to have an account here, I would argue 90-95% of people here are just regular users. If you want to delete your account, one of our admins can assist with that but I would encourage you to keep it; you never know when you will want to post something We welcome your presence regardless!

Is asking for donations to continue development allowed on Xda?

The dev who asked for money is @joshuous (Oneplus 3 & 3T dev) and the moderator who helped is @Magnum_Enforcer.. and possibly @Sam Nakamura
A simple timeline of things:
1) Dev's rom (VertexOS) didnt have an update since September
2) "Suddenly" dev breaks his phone, and asks for donations
3) @Magnum_Enforcer deletes the message, and reminds him of rules
4) Dev says he wont continue development without a phone
5) Another user posts a link with a used phone at 200$ (i think from Swappa) and prompts other users to donate, many users agree
6) Users donate to the dev, dev thanks users for donations and says he will continue development .
Of course the majority of messages got deleted eventually by @Magnum_Enforcer (or maybe @Sam Nakamura)
So my question is Are devs allowed to ask for users to donate for a phone so they can continue development?
If this is not the right place to post this, please redirect me to the right thread

Sir, how can you even speak about something you completely don't know about?
Points im making clear:
The dev did not force for donations anywhere (and anyways nobody from xda donated) The vertex community(outside of XDA) decided to donate for a new phone so he could continue the amazing and promising work he's been delivering. If not he'd have bought another phone and continued to develop for it .
The developer complied to what he was instructed to : He did not even request for donations after he was warned to not do the same.
IT WAS THE COMMUNITY WHO INITIATED THE DONATION .
And please know that its the developer who's spending all the precious time on this for making all of us happy (please let me know if its you)
You, sir, should be ashamed to have ranted and spoken absolute **** about something you have no idea about. I don't think your stubborn ass belongs to a great place like XDA.
Other points:
1. This happening does not involve XDA and is totally out of XDA's boundaries.
2. I thought we were all aware that the dev was working on Oreo which was the reason for the pause in official builds.
3. Nobody is showing bias here. Please show us proof if you got any.

Not going to start a flame war here. I'm going to do this in a reasonable manner. I welcome any moderator (@Magnum_Enforcer and others) to discuss with me and allow me to provide every evidence needed to explain the situation and support my case. Feel free to pm me.

gordito_gr said:
The dev who asked for money is @joshuous (Oneplus 3 & 3T dev) and the moderator who helped is @Magnum_Enforcer.. and possibly @Sam Nakamura
A simple timeline of things:
1) Dev's rom (VertexOS) didnt have an update since September
2) "Suddenly" dev breaks his phone, and asks for donations
3) @Magnum_Enforcer deletes the message, and reminds him of rules
4) Dev says he wont continue development without a phone
5) Another user posts a link with a used phone at 200$ (i think from Swappa) and prompts other users to donate, many users agree
6) Users donate to the dev, dev thanks users for donations and says he will continue development .
Of course the majority of messages got deleted eventually by @Magnum_Enforcer (or maybe @Sam Nakamura)
So my question is Are devs allowed to ask for users to donate for a phone so they can continue development?
If this is not the right place to post this, please redirect me to the right thread
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Seems like you are too stubborn to give up. Very well.
Let's break things down a bit, shall we?
Joshuous has unfortunately damaged his OnePlus 3 accidentally, which means that - at the time - continuing to develop the ROM is impossible. Common sense, isn't it? Kernel building can be done blindly, but not ROM building by any means, or else the users may quite likely face serious bugs or even bricks, and will require a tediously longer period of testing that will deem the whole project meaningless. Joshuous was ready to give up on developing since, well, no device to test his ROM on. But the community didn't want to let go and soon enough a campaign to fund a secondhanded OnePlus 3 was begun by a generous member of the community (and NOT Joshuous himself). It may be inappropriate to post direct donations links, as kindly explained by @Magnum_Enforcer in the VertexOS thread. And after a quick discussion, and adequate moderating, the donation link was removed by the mods and the whole discussion was taken to somewhere more private away from XDA - as per the XDA rules and request of its moderators.
It's worth noting that the last official update from Joshuous was on the 16th of September, with a hotfix build released shortly by one of the project contributors, which caused the thread participants (with you pittifully being amongst them) to falsely deceive that the project has been abandoned, even though Joshuous was posting status updates when possible. However, it's been repeatedly stated by Joshuous and his contributors (me included) that the ROM hasn't been abandoned, and that the pause of official builds is a natural thing when the developer starts to work on the major Android version upgrade - just like most of the ROMs.
Again, I would like to emphasise some points. As far as Joshuous went with 'breaking the rules', he directly posted a link to the funding campaign that explicitly stated the campaign's goal to buy a secondhanded OnePlus 3 unit. As soon as the link was removed, and Joshuous made aware of the rules and that this was considered a violation to them, Joshuous has gratefully abided by @Magnum_Enforcer 's decision and the XDA rules and took the donation somewhere else out of the XDA boundaries. And of course, we must emphasize the fact that you have been rudely bashing Josh and @calvinistmac (you even dared to rudely call him "his lackey" just because he responded to you and gave you a status update, and I have not-so-kindly stepped in. And if my memory serves me right, I even advised you to get your hands off the keyboard for your own good - an advice that apparently wasn't taken into consideration and has cost the XDA forum lots of space, and has significantly cost the mods quite some time to clear your trash talk and rude comments and not to mention how depressed Josh was when he saw, and still see, such allegations made against him)
Now let's get back to your preposterous claim
gordito_gr said:
The dev who asked for money is @joshuous (Oneplus 3 & 3T dev) and the moderator who helped is @Magnum_Enforcer.. and possibly @Sam Nakamura
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Incorrect. Joshuous didn't actually start the campaign of funding a OnePlus 3 device for development, he only stated that he lost the phone accidentally. Only thing he did was pasting a link to a campaign that was started by another XDA member, who did enjoy VertexOS and was very generous to do whatever it takes for the project to continue. And no, Magnum_Enforcer didn't help him, he actually took down the link asap and kindly refreshed our knowledge of the XDA rules. Sam Nakamura didn't help him either.
gordito_gr said:
A simple timeline of things:
1) Dev's rom (VertexOS) didnt have an update since September
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Can't be denied, but I just did explain why did Josh pause the official builds above.
gordito_gr said:
2) "Suddenly" dev breaks his phone, and asks for donations
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That's nothing short of an individual issue of trust. Nothing to do with XDA or any other site. I suggest you go see a doctor and talk with him about your uncertainities and conspiracy theories - that's all I can say.
gordito_gr said:
3) @Magnum_Enforcer deletes the message, and reminds him of rules
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I don't see anything wrong here. It's just the moderator doing his job properly, and I highly commend him for that :good:
gordito_gr said:
4) Dev says he wont continue development without a phone
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True, and justifiable. ROM developing cannot be done blindly. Even kernel developing must need a very highly experienced dev to come up with dependable stable kernel builds if done blindly without the actual device in hand.
gordito_gr said:
5) Another user posts a link with a used phone at 200$ (i think from Swappa) and prompts other users to donate, many users agree
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What's wrong with seeing a good and supportive community? Is that against the rules, or does it defy the laws of physics?
gordito_gr said:
6) Users donate to the dev, dev thanks users for donations and says he will continue development .
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Given the previously explained circumstances, and the wonderfully supportive community, the developer has gratefully accepted the community's helping hand. What's wrong with that?
gordito_gr said:
Of course the majority of messages got deleted eventually by @Magnum_Enforcer (or maybe @Sam Nakamura)
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And we commend him/them for doing his job properly and promptly reminding us of any violation to the rules. I would like to remind you and the gentlemen that among the "majority of the messages that got deleted eventually" was your rude reply to @calvinistmac where you called him Josh's lackey, which is terribly impolite and unrespectful to say the least.
gordito_gr said:
So my question is Are devs allowed to ask for users to donate for a phone so they can continue development?
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The answer of this question can be found in @Magnum_Enforcer 's post here, which apparently you have gone through and failed to understand.
gordito_gr said:
If this is not the right place to post this, please redirect me to the right thread
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That's up to the moderator to decide. But one thing for sure, XDA is not the place for you to blatantly drag the devs in the filth and lace your hate on them.

I hope such guys get banned from XDA, as those destroy the whole community. They don't even have a sense for community feeling or how to act in one.
I've seen many post of you, which are disrespectful and childish. And this one is the top of the hill.
Mostafa explained the situation very well. Josh never asked for donation and the campaign has been created by a user, not even a contributor!

Mostafa Wael said:
And we commend him/them for doing his job properly and promptly reminding us of any violation to the rules. I would like to remind you and the gentlemen that among the "majority of the messages that got deleted eventually" was your rude reply to @calvinistmac where you called him Josh's lackey, which is terribly impolite and unrespectful to say the least.
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I just hope you change the rules, because there are clearly other devs out there that should be making a living out of their work.
Allowing this dev to get paid, while banning other from freely asking for donations to continue, is clearly double-standard behavior.
No wonder why devs start leaving XDA.

Why do you keep saying XDA "allowed" joshuous to get paid? The donations took place off of XDA and any donation requests on XDA were promptly removed.
The rules were upheld and the users who saw value in VertexOS donated elsewhere. I'm not sure why you alone are against this.

gordito_gr said:
I just hope you change the rules, because there are clearly other devs out there that should be making a living out of their work.
Allowing this dev to get paid, while banning other from freely asking for donations to continue, is clearly double-standard behavior.
No wonder why devs start leaving XDA.
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Click to collapse
Actually Devs start leaving XDA because of people like you keep populating the threads with nothing but nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You just cripple the threads with such replies. And where on God's Earth did Joshuous ask his users to donate him to continue development ? I have said it before numerous times and will say it again, the campaign was raised by one of the users and not him. And when ME took down the link, we moved the discussion to somewhere else out of XDA's boundaries. What the bloody heck is wrong with that? If you don't like what you see, clear the bloody way for more useful posts! Any other comments on that means that you are nothing but a troll. Not even a guy with single digit IQ level would be that stubborn and fail to understand outright facts.
P.S. stop with the "XDA is helping him" part, coz that is even more embarrassing for you.

Absolutely embarrassing response.
Lock this thread and change the rules already, there are devs out there that deserve to get paid

gordito_gr said:
I just hope you change the rules, because there are clearly other devs out there that should be making a living out of their work.
Allowing this dev to get paid, while banning other from freely asking for donations to continue, is clearly double-standard behavior.
No wonder why devs start leaving XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you get your jollies over ridiculing other devs? Your the type that make devs want to quit. I've seen it happen all across this forum. Josh is one of the best devs out there along with SultanXDA, Maxwen, etc...
Nowhere did Josh ask for donations to keep on developing. WE AS THE COMMUNITY WHO USE AND HAVE USED THIS ROM DONATED so that development could continue. You just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself.
The only embarassing responses are yours.
You poke at the bear and you're gonna get bitten.
Your arrogance is showing, big time. I suggest you quit while you're ahead.
Mine and the rest of XDA's tolerance has shortened for the likes of you.

gordito_gr said:
Absolutely embarrassing response.
Lock this thread and change the rules already, there are devs out there that deserve to get paid
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And as far as I can work out, Josh and Zach are amongst the first of these Devs.
Could you please zip it and clear the area? If anyone is making people leave XDA - it is YOU. and only YOU! No one else. Not Josh, not Zach. YOU.
Just take a look at what have you done? You crippled two threads with your rude posts and useless futile discussions. I think suffering with pneumonia would be more tolerable than replying to your pathetic posts.

As I've said... Don't post here. This guy doesn't understand the sense of a community. I still hope this guy gets banned as a statement from XDA.
It would be time to protect devs and not such user, who has no value to this community. I've never seen him to help or support development in any way.
With this post he blames the mod, who already handled this topic, Josh as Dev and the whole community, who's trying to help and support each other.
And just to say. I've donated to this campaign on a free basis. And what I do with my money, that's my thing. Do you believe you can decide, what people are doing with their money ... You are simple-minded and conceited. If you think another Dev should receive a donation... Than donate. I believe you've never donated more than 1 dollar to any of them. So just let others do, what they want and mind your own business.

gordito_gr said:
The dev who asked for money is @joshuous (Oneplus 3 & 3T dev) and the moderator who helped is @Magnum_Enforcer.. and possibly @Sam Nakamura
A simple timeline of things:
1) Dev's rom (VertexOS) didnt have an update since September
2) "Suddenly" dev breaks his phone, and asks for donations
3) @Magnum_Enforcer deletes the message, and reminds him of rules
4) Dev says he wont continue development without a phone
5) Another user posts a link with a used phone at 200$ (i think from Swappa) and prompts other users to donate, many users agree
6) Users donate to the dev, dev thanks users for donations and says he will continue development .
Of course the majority of messages got deleted eventually by @Magnum_Enforcer (or maybe @Sam Nakamura)
So my question is Are devs allowed to ask for users to donate for a phone so they can continue development?
If this is not the right place to post this, please redirect me to the right thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have looked into this and absolutely no rules have been violated.
8. Donations.
As a user, you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work, however donations up front are not allowed. This forum is about sharing and not about getting paid to do something... that is what your job is for.
The developer never demanded donations. The community rallied to help at their own free will.
Thread closed.

Donate to Nord N10 development

Hey guys.. we have a problem concerning development for the Nord N10. The original developer has quit and was to ship his device to another developer to pick up on development. But the shipment never arrived, so now we have no active developers to fix bugs on existing roms or create new ones.
Mod edit: Donation info removed.

These kinds of threads are, problematic...
First of all, the XDA forum rules does not allow donations upfront:
8. Donations.
As a user, you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work, however donations up front are not allowed. This forum is about sharing and not about getting paid to do something... that is what your job is for.
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Second, how can we make sure that forum members that do donate to a cause like this actually get what they expect? But of course, we're talking about donations here, and that usually comes with no strings attached (at least here on XDA). That's just a festering ground for conflict and drama.
Thirdly, you mentioned a developer that's not even a member here on XDA (at least not under that name)... If you're going to use us as a platform we kind of expect development and sharing to happen here, not on Telegram (XDA has a bit if a love-hate relationship with Telegram).
I'm closing this thread, but please contact me through PM if you're interested in discussing this further and possibly working something out.