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I acted impulsively, which is something I never do. I got caught up in the look and feel of WP7 and did not consider its actual usability for a person like me. Let me say that the OS interface is gorgeous and it is very smooth and fluid.
So, impulsively, I went and shelled out $200 for a Samsung Focus today. Wanted the LG model but it is not out yet. After purchasing, I set the phone up first by entering my Live id (I thought this was strange but understand now), and then entered some other settings. I then paired the phone with my vehicle's bluetooth with no problems.
Okay, so far so good. Then, I get home and realize that the SD card is not hot swapable. A pain but I can deal with it. Then I realize that there is no USB mass storage mode for me to manage files on the phone and copy data back and forth. Hard for me to add my custom sounds and ring tones directly. A bigger pain, but I figured I could try to get use to the new type of file management or write my own app to manage files.
Then, the kicker. I cannot sync with my Outlook. I quickly found out why I was asked for my Live id. For years I've been syncing my contacts with my Outlook and my phone. I've been through several phones and always had my contacts, calendar, tasks, etc... on my new phone shortly after purchase. Apparently the only way to do this is to upload my personal data to a cloud via a connector or use Exchange??? There must be a loud outcry somewhere here in the United States on this opening day for WP7.
I'm okay with the approach to reach a broader audience but the great thing about Windows has always been to have all the options. A simple configuration for casual users and the option for advanced configurations for power users. Why not have the option to sync with Outlook in addition to the over the air option? I'm going to look for a way to get Exchange software and replace my current mail server. If that is not feasible or cannot happen quickly, I'm returning my phone and will stick with my Tilt2 WM6.5 phone. I have three days to return it with no questions asked and 27 additional days for a return.
After looking forward to WP7 I am really disappointed with its actual usability for me. I mistakenly thought it would be a replacement for WM6.5 but it is not. That is my fault for acting impulsively and not doing research. Do your due dillengence before buying.
sorry to heard... hope i can tranfer my contacts via google.. thats where i have them all..
ThomasJones77 said:
I acted impulsively, which is something I never do. I got caught up in the look and feel of WP7 and did not consider its actual usability for a person like me. Let me say that the OS interface is gorgeous and it is very smooth and fluid.
So, impulsively, I went and shelled out $200 for a Samsung Focus today. Wanted the LG model but it is not out yet. After purchasing, I set the phone up first by entering my Live id (I thought this was strange but understand now), and then entered some other settings. I then paired the phone with my vehicle's bluetooth with no problems.
Okay, so far so good. Then, I get home and realize that the SD card is not hot swapable. A pain but I can deal with it. Then I realize that there is no USB mass storage mode for me to manage files on the phone and copy data back and forth. Hard for me to add my custom sounds and ring tones directly. A bigger pain, but I figured I could try to get use to the new type of file management or write my own app to manage files.
Then, the kicker. I cannot sync with my Outlook. I quickly found out why I was asked for my Live id. For years I've been syncing my contacts with my Outlook and my phone. I've been through several phones and always had my contacts, calendar, tasks, etc... on my new phone shortly after purchase. Apparently the only way to do this is to upload my personal data to a cloud via a connector or use Exchange??? There must be a loud outcry somewhere here in the United States on this opening day for WP7.
I'm okay with the approach to reach a broader audience but the great thing about Windows has always been to have all the options. A simple configuration for casual users and the option for advanced configurations for power users. Why not have the option to sync with Outlook in addition to the over the air option? I'm going to look for a way to get Exchange software and replace my current mail server. If that is not feasible or cannot happen quickly, I'm returning my phone and will stick with my Tilt2 WM6.5 phone. I have three days to return it with no questions asked and 27 additional days for a return.
After looking forward to WP7 I am really disappointed with its actual usability for me. I mistakenly thought it would be a replacement for WM6.5 but it is not. That is my fault for acting impulsively and not doing research. Do your due dillengence before buying.
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Click to collapse
I call trolling. So basically, you joined today JUST to talk about the downsides of WP7 considering this is your first post?... Obviously you haven't been reading anything on WP7 or on this forum, maybe never even have heard of this place before, and just decided to post the downsides that's been talked about on this forum heaps of times already.
Cruzer1 said:
I call trolling. So basically, you joined today JUST to talk about the downsides of WP7 considering this is your first post?... Obviously you haven't been reading anything on WP7 or on this forum, maybe never even have heard of this place before, and just decided to post the downsides that's been talked about on this forum heaps of times already.
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To early to call troll.
He does point out valid points, even if he is mostly to blame for not checking any facts before buying.
Sir. Haxalot said:
To early to call troll.
He does point out valid points, even if he is mostly to blame for not checking any facts before buying.
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I guess... still, considering he had a WM6.5 device, why didnt he join earlier? instead he took the effort to join JUST to point out the lack of features of WP7...
That, or its just me getting excited for trying to spot a troll at first glance lol
I was looking for solutions on the sync problem and this site came up on a Google search. When I was actively writing smartphone apps I use to come here frequently but that was a couple of years ago now. Not too sure what the troll lingo is about but my frustration is real. On top of it I'm an a big Microsoft supporter which is why I was lazy with my research. I'm a professional Microsoft developer (mostly all .net now-Windows, Silverlight, XNA, ASP.NET etc.. using C# mostly), always use Microsoft devices and operating systems. I just mistakenly figured that WP7 could replace WM6.5. Most Microsoft products work well with other Microsoft products. It does do some things well but it obviously is not targeted for WM users. Just my opinion.
I understand the frustration but all of this was known before release, you should have considered pros and cons before purchasing like with any piece of technology.
Peew971 said:
I understand the frustration but all of this was known before release, you should have considered pros and cons before purchasing like with any piece of technology.
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Yep. All my fault. I admit it. All I did was look at a bunch of youtube videos. I just assumed Microsoft would carry over basic things like Outlook sync, usb mass storage, file management etc... Silly me. I knew about the lack of multi-tasking and copy and paste. But, I get 3 days to return it with no questions asked so I lose nothing and only gain disappointment. Microsoft does allow for a 4 month free trial of Exchange which I could use to manage my contacts and calendar for a while assuming I can get my WP7 to stop syncing with my live account. On a typical Windows device this would all be configurable but I guess I may have to wait for a professional WP7 to get the level of configuration I've become use to.
Keep talking about profesional and power user... and you have no Exchange support? I haven't used Outlook local synch for at least if not more than 7 years.
awagner said:
Keep talking about profesional and power user... and you have no Exchange support? I haven't used Outlook local synch for at least if not more than 7 years.
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After researching this issue today, there are many people who still sync with stand alone Outlook. It was not the only reason but a big reason for me staying with the WM family of phones over the years. I never had the need for an Exchange server at home. I have an old company phone for the Exchange server used at my job that is locked down with all sorts of policy restrictions. I've always used the free MailEnable software for my personal hosted email accounts instead of Exchange. I prefer to use Outlook to manage my calendar and contacts just like I do at work. It was not a problem in any of the WM 5, 6.1, or 6.5 phones that I've owned. The bottom line is that Microsoft is going in a different direction now.
Cruzer1 said:
I call trolling. So basically, you joined today JUST to talk about the downsides of WP7 considering this is your first post?... Obviously you haven't been reading anything on WP7 or on this forum, maybe never even have heard of this place before, and just decided to post the downsides that's been talked about on this forum heaps of times already.
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Click to collapse
You know what? You're just stupid. That's it.
He's not a troll. He's just a target MS user, who SHOULDN'T know much about
advanced technology but just use it. It should "just work".
That's all the shouting here is about lately - how MS wanted to make things easier, just working, simple, apparent, without hassle and problems, without sitting every night on techie forums analyzing stuff. That was one of the WP7 main arguments, both in public MS campaign and here. Easy, intuituve, obvious. No phones for "power users" but for everybody.
But apparently it's not the truth. It's full of holes and inconsitiencies ATM.
His reaction was absolutely natural.
Companion Link
Cruzer1 said:
I call trolling. So basically, you joined today JUST to talk about the downsides of WP7 considering this is your first post?... Obviously you haven't been reading anything on WP7 or on this forum, maybe never even have heard of this place before, and just decided to post the downsides that's been talked about on this forum heaps of times already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe should have did alittle research before returning the phone your answerhttp://wmpoweruser.com/companionlink-supports-outlook-sync-with-windows-phone-7/
I like to be able to sync w/ my local outlook but it isn't a deal breaker for me.
You have to rip open the samsung to get to the microSD card.
zulu208 said:
I like to be able to sync w/ my local outlook but it isn't a deal breaker for me.
You have to rip open the samsung to get to the microSD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
see post above for sync to local outlook
I hope I can transfer all my contacts from my. Razr.
Lol
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk
ThomasJones77 said:
After researching this issue today, there are many people who still sync with stand alone Outlook. It was not the only reason but a big reason for me staying with the WM family of phones over the years. I never had the need for an Exchange server at home. I have an old company phone for the Exchange server used at my job that is locked down with all sorts of policy restrictions. I've always used the free MailEnable software for my personal hosted email accounts instead of Exchange. I prefer to use Outlook to manage my calendar and contacts just like I do at work. It was not a problem in any of the WM 5, 6.1, or 6.5 phones that I've owned. The bottom line is that Microsoft is going in a different direction now.
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Click to collapse
Doesn't Microsoft myphone backup your contacts? Can you restore those to WP7. And yes they are. The new phone is a transition to not how you use your phone today, but how we all will be using our phones. Think of the integration of motoblur and HTC sence. We facebook our family and friends, some people use the heck out of twitter. We are all growing as phone users to a more cloud friendly environment, like it our not the future in phones is not direct connection to your PC... those days are going fast.
rruffman said:
Maybe should have did alittle research before returning the phone your answerhttp://wmpoweruser.com/companionlink-supports-outlook-sync-with-windows-phone-7/
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Click to collapse
To have to pay for this feature is ridiculous. This should be free. The more and more I read about Windows Phone 7 the more I realize that I'll be jumping ship to Android.
rruffman said:
Maybe should have did alittle research before returning the phone your answer wmpoweruser.com / companionlink - supports -outlook - sync - with - windows - phone -7
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Click to collapse
I did come across that a couple of hours ago but my concern is having to have another account outside of all my own hosted accounts just to sync with my phone. I believe the outlook hotmail connector will do the same thing but you have to have a Live account. I should not have to relay on an outside account like Hotmail, GMail, Yahoo, etc... to sync my contacts and calendar. In addition, I just do not want all my personal contact information on a server, be it Google or Microsoft, that I do not control. With all that said, I know that I should have researched this first.
awagner said:
Doesn't Microsoft myphone backup your contacts? Can you restore those to WP7. And yes they are. The new phone is a transition to not how you use your phone today, but how we all will be using our phones. Think of the integration of motoblur and HTC sence. We facebook our family and friends, some people use the heck out of twitter. We are all growing as phone users to a more cloud friendly environment, like it our not the future in phones is not direct connection to your PC... those days are going fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree phone usage has changed. However, I would prefer that Microsoft keep moving in the direction they are going but still have configuration options to sync with a PC, view your file system, make a Live account optional, etc... I think functionality should be added not taken away. This is a 1.0 device so we'll see how things go in the months and years to come.
Even though I just got my HD7 today and love it, I likely also will be returning it because it doesn't have the free navigation like WinMo 6.5 on the HD2 has or Android with Google search.
The HD7 has Bing search, but the nav isn't build in to it. and I scoured the Marketplace for any free nav and came up empty. To me, that's a deal breaker.
MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.
They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.
i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Need to tweet this thread to the world
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.
Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Puhleeezee....
Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Click to collapse
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.
All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.
Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Click to collapse
Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it's US only.
Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As in a Google App or Andriod OS?
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
digger1985 said:
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I think windows mobile just need to be refined. It was lacking stability and user interface and hardware quality. The lack of that is the freezes, slow down both short term and long term and ease of use. The combination of improved hardware and improved UI and consistent use would have gone a long way towards core users since most people assume WP7 is WM7 anyways.
The only guess I can take is that they either couldn't recover from the state the code was in or more likely just went the Iphone route. From what I read WM7 was scrapped and Zune developers took over.
why not ask on social.microsoft.com... that is more direct line than here...
i would imagine that they are going to introduce more than just what they've listed. when you are going to give a general roadmap, you would give the big highlights, not everything.
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
CSMR said:
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-directly installable apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
Directly installable apps is not something they need either as they will roll out a set package of apps - just look at corporate laptops today, everything comes preinstalled from the IT dept. Now, sure, if you are talking about business apps for "personal" phones for their employees the IT dept rollout will not work, but MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
CSMR said:
-copy and paste
-multitasking
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Click to collapse
These are coming thruout the year, but TBH multitasking isn't something used by most WinMo enterprise users. Sure, some do use it for GPS tracking in the background but the vast majority of said users have these devices as a one-trick pony. Take UPS for example, they use them to scan packages, collect signatures and track drivers - that's it. None of which are performed simultaneously.
CSMR said:
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-business-class security features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with most of these though. Not sure what you mean by business-class security features, but other than that they do need to roll out VPN and enhanced Exchange support. VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Omega Ra said:
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
emigrating said:
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
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Click to collapse
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Isolated storage is a terrible restriction, whether it is local or in the cloud. So terrible that Microsoft had to make limited exemptions for particular sorts of content with special apis to be accessed by more than one program (e.g. photos).
Look you can have office workers who just edit spreadsheets and word documents, maybe this is fine for them. But for serious users of technology this is unacceptable. Just think of the history. You had slide rules and other specific calculating devices devices. Then Charles Babbage develops a mechanical computer which is actually Turing complete, then Turing proves that there is this type of computer that can do anything that is computable, then people built these things, and now we are back with - as long as a device can do x,y,z popular tasks we are OK. End rant.
Directly installable apps... MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK let me continue the rant a little. Alan Turing did not envisage a system where for an algorithm to succeed it has to first pass the approval of human censors. It takes the undecidability problem a little too far, don't you think?
Anyway, any improvement is good but what is the timeframe? At some point this will happen, unless the public overtures to homebrew hackers were a mistake.
VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
I agree with all your points.
It's fine not to have the features at launch but they must add them quickly. The argument that some like to use that WP7 is new & to just be patient is wearing thin. WP7 is competing with the IPhone & Android of today not of yesterday, so why should customers bother waiting too long for features already available on competing products? The UI is great but not spectacularly better IMO.
I want WP7 to succeed but the clock is ticking & MS only has a limited amount of time to make it a hit.
N8ter said:
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter said:
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
leowp7 said:
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
CSMR said:
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - but that's a whole different can of worms. What I was commenting on was getting content onto your phone in the first place. I fully agree there should be a shared store accessible by any installed application.
CSMR said:
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. But in my experience businesses (at least here) have free connectivity between their mobile devices and their offices. More and more these days there are no landlines available at all, everyone uses mobile which is routed thru a local (ie. corporate) switch.
CSMR said:
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is where we don't agree
Power-users - or early-adopters; they are generally the same people - are not generating [direct] revenue and as such their usage patterns are not of great importance initially. What they do do is drive demand for these features down to an average level, so at some point it will become mainstream, but not today.
N8ter said:
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats so uncalled for.....
leowp7 said:
thats so uncalled for.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
CSMR said:
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
lumpaywk said:
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's no delusion that 6.5 is far superior to WP7, as of now.
amtrakcn said:
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what functionality are you refering to that every other phone OS hasn't had for 2plus years ?
I make/receive on average 1 phone call a day, while I copy/paste at least 20 times a day.
N8ter said:
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. im not crying about anything, just stating the obvious
2. I feel anyone should be allowed to say what they think, so are you, but why the need for the bully factor?
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting
lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.
Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.
well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?
Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.
emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.
FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.
vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.
Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
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People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.
Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...
N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...
N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).
Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!
vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,