Develop Bugs

Whats happening to the Smartfone?

Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.

You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).

No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.

krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
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This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations

can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind

Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................

I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!

Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach

yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.

anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
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Otherwise known as prison

devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.

I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.

ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.

^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.

If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy

tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
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Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.

addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol

Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.

chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
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I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.

Microsoft Haters

I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?

AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
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You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.

Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.

I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.

awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
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Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states

I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!

awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
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Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.

no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7

Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?

awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
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It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.

Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!

I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out

That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.

Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.

Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!

Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune

francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
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If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]

200000 Windows phone users

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1134006593#!/apps/application.php?id=7933375107
Clicked the windows icon on the wall post I created on my friends wall through my phone and it went here which leads me to believe that this is an accurate number of windows phone 7 users who use the integrated Facebook app.

are you certain it's the integrated facebook features or is it the actual facebook app itself?
also, facebook isn't a true measure of the number of people using windows phones as there are a lot who either don't want to tie their phone to facebook, or merely do not have facebook.
edit: i also think you should check out http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7180000-facebook-users-3800-apps/, and the comments in the latter half of the page. a lot of people bring up valid points on how WMPU done their measurements and how they can't really be founded to be the actual sales figures.

Try it post on a friends wall then go to their wall and click the windows icon next to the wall post you made. I did this through the integrated app. All be it that not all windows phone users have facebook it should be quite accurate that if even half have it which is more likely than not it only equals 400000. I am not a nay sayer I was just dissapointed to see that.

yea i don't doubt that it does link to it as i've seen it myself. though who knows, those numbers (400,000ish) could be right with a lot of issues on the initial launch with lack of devices and what not. also looking at stats from whistleout.com.au (gives comparisons between australian companies, so in this case against telcos), WP7 got 4.8% comparisons compared to 26.8% of Android, and 53.7% of iPhone.
source: http://www.whistleout.com.au/blog/wp7-sales-not-taking-off
disclaimer: iPhone was around in australia and with a greater presence than any other smartphone, and australians are very much tech consumers, and once consumed it's hard to get them off, hence why iPhone is massively stronger here than say in the US (stronger in ratio wise, after all australia is only 22million).

As far as I see it, this isn't even the "real" launch of WP7. It's a launch for early adopters, and 200.000 early adopters is excellent! In January we will see some updates to the platform, and by summer we should see some really cool devices, and I bet MS will start touting WP7 more as apps are getting more available etc etc.

tbh i love the fact that not many people have wp7 yet as it means when people see mine there more impressed. MS knew it would be a slow launch you have to plug away at these things until people catch on (look at android). Once the updates are out we will see great phones and much like the desire was to android we will have one that stands out and pushes it forward.

I hope MS ditches the BOGO deal and instead offers a base dataplan that is included with every new phone. So instead of blowing 199 on a device most people won't be able to do because the contract renewals don't jive up, just pay the carrier for a 500mb/month base data 3g plan. If people can get their monthly costs down the phones will sell more.
Honestly, once Sprint & Verizon have the phones, i think it will be a game changer. The devices will really take off.
Not to mention tons of people are still holding out for the set they want. cough dell cough
not sure how the facebook numbers are tallied.. it jumps by about 25k randomly

Many people waiting on their contracts to expire. I couldn't wait and bought myself an unlocked phone.

Wife and I each have a Focus, I use FB all the time, she never. So hers is not setup....

JETninja said:
Wife and I each have a Focus, I use FB all the time, she never. So hers is not setup....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone isn't being sold as a facebook phone, so i hope people keep that in mind
With that being said, the attach rate for Facebook adoption has to be rather high and that is a good thing if you ask me.
200k mobile users on a new facebook platform that doesn't even support all the fb features yet?
More anecdotatal evidence - i'm seeing lots of my friends message me and tell me they can't wait to get their phone and even some of my nerdy anti-ms friends are jumping in and totally distancing themselves from the hate-rumors fully knowing the small issues will be fixed but the functionality at large is exactly what they're looking for.
Funny enough i had one dude i knew who was totally for android but didn't own an android phone (has an iphone 3g) and when he saw my phone he just spit out the same talking points. I asked him how is iphone 3g works with microSD cards and if tethering was an issue for him and he shut up. he even asked to see my phone later
its going to be a slow start.. from crappy economy to limited carriers but hopefully 2011 with 2 new cdma phones will set things forward!

WP7 is definitely a long-term project and won't have immediate success. However, if MS keep up continual updates next year, then it's going to be a real contender in the market. Can't wait to see what 2011 has in store for WP7 from a user perspective as well as a developer perspective.

I don't have a WP7 device since it's not available here and there's no Cyrillic keyboard, but if I did, I wouldn't enter the Facebook account. There's Windows Live support, and WL can integrate Facebook together with a bunch of other social networks including FB. In FB stats you won't see such access at all because it's done by a Microsoft web service.
Now, I have no clue how many people would use this (you need a WLID but I don't remember whether WL offers to add FB during registration), but this is definitely another possible source of statistical errors.
However, these small numbers actually kind of coincide with another piece of circumstantial evidence - the recently released app download numbers are really tiny.
So yeah, WP7 didn't put the smartphone world on fire, to put it mildly.

Most people that come to my store and buy a wp7 do not log into facebook. I offer to help with it and most of the time they tell me they either dont use facebook or do not want to log in.

Had an HD7 briefly, didnt use facebook on it and wont be using it on my Dell or ever.

I have a WinPhone and don't use facebook. I like to remain incognito. (Which defeats the purpose when I post to these boards)

Wow
More people use facebook than google. Nuf said. Actually if you look at the initial sales numbers of andriod 1.0 and the iphone 1.0 this is probably on par if not better, But it is great to get MS people mad, BTW I am a MS person.
Media center on both laptop and desktop
2 XBOX 360's 1 with kinnect
1 WM 6.5 alway had WM!!!
1 WP7
and manage 1400 win desktops
and 40 win servers
and why.... their technology keeps me employed
I was just amazed that ppl wernt floking in the store.

enterprise is one thing, consumer market... not so much. That and the so much of the media all drink Apple/Google Kool-aid.

It was kind of fun that all the people I work with, who swear to iPhone (I believe they think they're still "special" - not "special" like I think of them, but "special" like not too many people have it) actually admired my new WP7 phone. And I, who said I would rather go down the Android path, might be back on track
Another thing that proves the market is opening to WP is that I already got three programming assignments - and they all want to pay me for making the apps, plus I can charge users for using the app.

What are WP7 Best Features???

MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.

They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.

i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.

no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision

Need to tweet this thread to the world

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.

Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.

davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Puhleeezee....

Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.

All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.

Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones

wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised

Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.

action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it's US only.

Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.

N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As in a Google App or Andriod OS?

Fed up with WP7?

Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?

Try this, you may like it.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/04/04/so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now/

if you're having problems unlocking your device, you should really hit the chevron thread. But for the most part, any issues with the unlock process on my end have been fixed.
As far as updating, you should check a few areas that have a nice update step for everyone and it works for anyone whose tried so far.
Then there is the option of actually waiting for your specific device to update via carrier.
It gets tiring to see the I'm tired of windows phone because it hasn't updated even though you like the experience...it's the first update...the very first one at that. Take a look at android updating, or even the god awful windows mobile updating

Updater
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this. It's brand new, but, given who it came from it should work.

influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First update errors were caused by Samsung not MS.
Second update is being held up by the carriers.
I have an unlocked/unbranded samsung omnia 7 and haven't gotten the update, but I don't care because it is only a minor update and I know it is coming. Be patient bro.

influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...

FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on this. Both Android and iOS got grief regarding simple features. MS should have learnt from their mistakes, as WP7 was release years after these 2.
Any way i am now running Mango, and i have to say this is a Massive leap forward for the OS. If i had not have invested so much into iOS i would move over and just use WP7!
As for my previous post, i was venting my frustration. Which i think i am allowed to do and have an opinion. Granted the update only brought copy and paste and a few other minor features but these are massive features. Especially when using the device as a business device.

FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus (cause she liked my HD7) and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead... However, this same person had no problems accepting my HD2 as a gift over the new phone, but I didn't give it cause my mom didn't want to pay more by using 2 different carriers and no family plan.
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
It was the perfect case of "I don't care how it looks, I care what it can do." as far as I'm concerned.
But of course I'm sure you will think this was only an outlier situation

N8ter said:
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead...
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.

Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.

Dj21o said:
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.

eric12341 said:
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Just tried a short video and it has the share options to Facebook, SkyDrive and your email addresses so it is indeed working in the Mango beta.
(My video successfully uploaded to facebook, NEAT!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then:
Are you able to send a short video to others with MMS? What about more than one picture at a time in a MMS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then in reply to that:
At this stage 'Messaging' is not an option in Mango, just email, facebook and skydrive.
You can only send one picture at a time in an MMS from WP7 Mango (can you send more in a single MMS on other platforms?).
EDIT: or rather i can't find a way to do more than one picture in a single MMS...there may be a way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.

N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the people that care about that would be upset then.

People send videos through e-mail and MMS all the time...

MrNetrix said:
E-mail video? Since when do people e-mail or even MMS videos? My feature phone can definitely do neither.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
To your first part of the post (not quoted): Free on Contract blackberries and cheap iPhone 3GSes can do all this, and more. That's not even comparing current WP7 OS/Devices to Android and iOS devices that were released in the same timeframe.
I'm not going to get baited into another heated forum battle, so... last response to you
If your only retort is "who does <something," then you've already defeated your own argument. A majority of cell phone users are on Feature and Dumb Phones. Millions and millions of people utilize the video MMS feature on those phones. And feature phones have email clients as well (some having somewhat decent HTML support, even).

N8ter said:
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I was just unaware that mine was able to since I never even had the remote need to.

N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Then:
Then in reply to that:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?

eric12341 said:
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
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And how is your grandmother who has a feature phone going to view that facebook video from her phone when she's at the flea market lookign for deals? Everyone wants their kids on Facebook. Yea. Lol... More people share on YouTube than Facebook. You can make YouTube Videos Privates. But more cell phone users are on Feature Phones and if you want to share short video clips with people on dumb or feature phones you cannot depend on either Facebook or YouTube. That is the issue. The issue is not what you can do on your phone, or wha tyou prefer. The issue is the OS being designed in a way that limits communications with people who have not yet migrated to smartphone platforms... Do you understand it NOW?
Again, if your only retort is "I found the quality lacking," then you've defeated your own argument.
Tethering?
Mobile Hotspot?
What about better Exchange Policy support so Exchange Servers stop declining lots of WP7 devices from connecting to networks that iPhones and Symbian devices have no issues connecting to?
File System Support so we can use a File Manager and manage files on the phone? And more easily/faster bulk copy media of dispirate/varied types to the device?
Outlook Synching from Zune Client, and Documents? For those of us who do not have SharePoint/Exchange but don't want to put confidential contact information/documents in the cloud? For those who don't know... Windows Live (Hotmail - which shares the same base login for Live) has a bad history when it comes to Account hacking/hijacking.
A notification tray so that you can see what you got while you were asleep or your phone was silenced/put away (I'm talking beyond the Social notifications pane, which only covers stuff you can already see in the Facebook/Twitter app, etc.) without hopping into several applications? (swipe left from Home, App List. Swipe Right, Notification Cache).
Does the Video Camera settings save in Mango, at least?
Only loosely related, but it would be nice if they allowed us to suscribe more than one RSS feed in Windows Live...
DLNA support at the platform level, not just from specific phone models/OEMs? Every decent Android device has this, and the iPhone has AirPlay.
Turn by Turn is still pretty bad in Mango, and I think I've already mentioned it but I still can't get over the insane feature drop-off from WM to WP7 IRT Bing Maps... It's still borderline unbelievable to me...
Universal Search?
Has Codec support been expanded? If you email someone a WMV and their phone doesn't support that CODEC, well, too bad?
I can continue

N8ter said:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
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You can't possibly be serious. Using the capabilities of a beta, that is not even close to feature complete, as proof that the finished release of the update won't include MMS video? That just boggles the mind.
N8ter said:
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
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How so? I thought this thread was about WP7 users being "fed up" with the OS. Given that, it seems more to me like telling people who own a PC, but aren't very happy with Win7, to have patience because a new version of the OS is coming. That may or may not be good advice, but it is a more correct analogy.

MartyLK said:
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
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I agree with you 110%. Android is open source and all about customizations, if you choose to do so. I know the GSII is coming to Sprint in August, but I'm not sure if I can hold back with all the power that device has. It runs quite well and the most I would do is underclock the phone to conserve my battery. I have fully customized my Evo, but I cannot sync my emails, my data has to be turned off, and I need a task killer all the time or my battery dies really quick.
With WP7, you don't need to worry about those features, and you get free applications *cough*. I mean, I hate having to go through all of the troubles to get these things to work properly, but I love the variety that I have.
WP7 runs sooo smooth and there is over 500 features being applied in Mango, and I really want simplicity and that beautiful UI.
What do you think is more important?