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Give me a break...
Charlie Kindel
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsphone/archive/2010/03/18/know-your-audience.aspx
Wow, MIX10 rocked. I’ve lost my voice which made it pretty hard to do a podcast interview this morning; I’m glad I had the morse code app someone coded up at MIX for Windows Phone 7 Series using the tools we made available there!
If you didn’t get a chance to see the day 1 keynote for the conference you missed an amazing presentation of not only the Windows Phone 7 Series user experience & developer experience but a bunch of amazing 3rd party app demos as well. You can watching it online here.
I had a great time talking with developers and designers about the new development platform at MIX. You’d be amazed how much planning went into delivering these keynotes, demos and sessions. I’ve been doing these shows for years, and the first thing I was taught was to know your audience. For me MIX has been all about exciting developers and designers, but I appreciate that there are people watching online or reading press articles who see things through a different lens. With that in mind, I’d like to clarify a few things.
I’ve talked at length on my developer focused blog and in other forums about our commitment to designing a platform that prioritizes end user experience. Creating and then preserving an incredible customer experience is priority one for Windows Phone 7 Series. We make this point in every session. To illustrate the point we often remind developers that the vast majority of phones are purchased at retail, which means the “end user” we are focusing on is often referred to as a “consumer”. This is not to say that phones or Windows Phone 7 Series in particular are less valuable to business or corporate scenarios; it’s simply a comment on purchase behavior.
We are building a phone focused on the end-user. We are building a phone that will be, primarily, purchased by end-users. We know those end-users have busy personal & business lives. We are building a phone that will be GREAT for helping end-users deal with BOTH their personal & business lives.
Windows Phone 7 Series will be a great business phone. We applied the same end user focus to designing the phone’s business capabilities that we did with every other element of the phone. We asked people and even IT administrators what they need from a phone. The answer was consistent. They want a single device that excels at core business functions like email, reading and editing Office documents and collaboration, while also offering rich features and capabilities that help people stay on top of the different parts of their lives, at home and at work.
We expect Windows Phone 7 Series to appeal to people who are active, connected and working, so Exchange & SharePoint integration and the features within the new Office hub are core to the phone’s value. Similarly, we know that people add these phones to corporate networks and that we need to make that process easy for administrators. Interestingly, when we talk to corporate IT staff and business decision makers they ask us to give them a compelling phone that will not only improve productivity, but also appeal to the end user’s “whole life,” as people wish to carry only one Smartphone to meet both business and personal needs. We think Windows Phone 7 Series will do this better than any other phone on the market today. WHICH BUSINESSES ARE YOU TALKING TO!?!?!?!?!?!
For us, it’s not a matter of “consumer” OR “corporate.” We view our target customer as the kind of person who is looking to technology as a helper in their lives, and we find this kind of person in small businesses, all the way to the largest corporations. Whichever end of the spectrum they are in, we are building a phone that works for them, in their environment.
So when we tell developers and designers that we’ve built a platform for consumers / end users / people, we simply mean that experience is the high order bit – not quantity of features, range of form factors or anything else.
How we tell our story may vary by audience or event, but our singular focus on creating and preserving a great experience for the people who carry a Windows Phone is consistent.
Cheers,
Charlie Kindel
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This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
Like those "typical" households they used to test Vista...facepalm.
rorytmeadows said:
This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
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I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft's actions with WP7S -- I definitely am not, and am outspoken about my views regarding WP7s -- but the article said they talked with IT staff and management.
I work in IT, and there's a big difference between us and the management. People at the business use company PCs on the company network to go on Facebook and a variety of other personal sites. People use their company-issued BBs to do personal things.
As IT staff members, we don't care. It's business management that cares. My boss -- manager in charge of technical services -- just shrugs off the Facebook network traffic -- it's not his problem, he just keeps the network running.
Modern IT staffs -- in general -- are very liberal. It's the business management that cracks down on stuff like that.
Also, while management may be deep-rooted in a control, all work no fun philosophy, whether they like it or not, they're waking up to the fact that this generation of worker likes to be liberated. It's being pushed to them by speakers and writers and pundits everywhere.
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
Micro$oft = Apple in disguise. They are following Apple to get the BIG BUCKS now.
hidden_hunter said:
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
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Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Yep pretty much, if the work's being done you could sit on facebook all day as far as my boss is concerned
hidden_hunter said:
Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
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As someone that was fired from a job because of LiveJournal content, I don't think I can agree with that statement.
rorytmeadows said:
Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
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As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
rorytmeadows said:
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
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Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
Spike15 said:
As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
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Well, I understand where you're coming from and I can definitely see that productivity would work with that kind of management there. But in a lot of companies, like mine, your workforce isn't bright enough to respond in that manner. I am a therapist at a day program that employs high school graduates (some of which who knows how they made it through high school) and thus, it's a battle to get the work done. They can be gotten rid of, but then replaced by a workforce of the same caliber. Such is my field. Then because of that dominate culture, the "laziness" rubs off on the educated some that also share the space. I don't want any of them on their Facebook accounts at work.
Most of the companies in this country are full of a workforce that can't spell the word workforce. You're entrusting them to these same philosophies of management? You don't have very good odds doing so.
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
rorytmeadows said:
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
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I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
Spike15 said:
I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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I agree completely. You cannot get the poweruser features that IT specs and nerdy hobbiests like me without buying some application, or at least hacking the phone. You don't have to hack Windows 7 to browse the files or edit the registry. It's part of the OS, as expected.
Spike15:
Well said! I agree 100%.
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
Spike15 said:
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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Click to collapse
gogol said:
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
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Well, I guess a slate phone is the answer.
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
eaglesteve said:
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
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Because, even jailbroken, it still doesn't have SD card, removable battery, customization is poor, no hardware keyboard, not enough serious apps (lots of iFart, iBoobs i****...) etc.
gogol said:
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
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Last chart I saw suggested that apple market share has been stuck at 25% for the last 3 months. I'm hoping that's not a one time occurrence, and is rather part of a trend. RIM is at 50%+ and increased a 1-2% during the same time (was expected to fall). Android moved up 5%, WinMo down 3-4%, Palm down 1-2%.
I'm hoping this is a trend so we get away from this idea that a phone does not need advanced features, and that people realize that devices that force vendor lockin is not a good idea.
I like marketplaces, but I don't like artificial enforcement of the marketplace. It's my device, I want to use it as I please. Generally, Freedom = good, artificial restriction = bad.
You can put a nice user-friendly candy-coated UI on something without ripping out the advanced features.
As for wp7, I am liking it better than the iphone experience, I don't think MS will prove to be as restrictive as Apple, so I hope it does well. However, I'm still undecided about what my next OS will be.
But I hope the market starts to swing more open and tech oriented with intuitive UIs on top of powerful open devices. And I hope this makes Microsoft open up their policies a bit as a result.
Hello everybody, I'm Saad from Windows Phone Daily and I thought it'd be worth sharing a concept I worked up last night and published this morning to the site.
It's actually in response to the editorial I read in WMPoweruser from Malcolm.Williams in which he pointed out many potential issues in Mango's Threads feature. I was pretty compelled by the idea of improving the feature, so I decided to pretty up his own concept. Instead I ended up with something a little more complex with more features than I thought I would include
Anyway to make a long story short, I noticed many comments about the iffy Threads implementation and so I did something about it. The pictures are pretty large so I can't upload them here, but please feel free to check it out at the site and leave us a comment there or here about what you think!
http://windowsphonedaily.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-to-fix-threads-in-mango-concept.html
So, do you like my approach or Microsoft's? (Tell me honestly!)
I Am Honestly don't like your concept. The pivot implementation just doesn't feel the regular pivots (bigger fonts for each pivot). And I read the article on wmpoweruser too, I feel like the author was trying to create a problem that wasn't there. I for sure dont care much about where the message was from ot sent to as long as the conversation flows. Plus, I believe in mango, you can see which platform you are currently chatting on that's all it matters.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Nice concept.
I like that concept!
sunxin8086 said:
I Am Honestly don't like your concept. The pivot implementation just doesn't feel the regular pivots (bigger fonts for each pivot). And I read the article on wmpoweruser too, I feel like the author was trying to create a problem that wasn't there. I for sure dont care much about where the message was from ot sent to as long as the conversation flows. Plus, I believe in mango, you can see which platform you are currently chatting on that's all it matters.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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I agree & disagree, I see no problem with the way it is, but this concept does add a nice feature too.
Thats exactly what we propesed in the other thread.
I would rather make the pivot text big and than have the name as the title so you keep it in line with the default panorama controls (check email hub or marketplace to see how the design should be http://newsziphone.buyer.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/WP7-Marketplace-Apps-300x291.jpg instead of ALL --> FIRSTNAME LASTNAME).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZxFxk-rtQ&feature=player_embedded
here is a good video about it.
The main concern is the frequency in which IM's are delivered and that people use SMS for more important stuff like adresses and meeting times. If those get rapidly sunk in all the high frequent IM's comming in, the average consumer will switch the feature off or will be annoyed by trying to find this address back.
And switching with pivots will prevent you from opening a selection menu, it will keep the user experience streamlined and on the same level. It will be more pleasant and quicker to use and/or find the information you need.
I like the concept of the pivot feature but it does not look quite right as people have said, really good idea though and I hope they implement something like it.
I totally should've asked you to PhotoShop that!
Again a lot of ideas to toss around the swimming hole, so to speak. Its surprising to find a more intelligent discussion of it on xda though...but again it is also why it is xda DEVELOPERS and not USERS
Again, I never said in the article that a unified messaging hub is a bad idea. Heck I was impressed and as a user anyone would be impressed. But Microsoft has this thing of good idea, poor implementation. That's not to say that the current implementation is poor, but like everything, there is room for improvisation. I think a pivot is far easier than going through an option menu and in the options there should be far more filtering available.
The people I have multiple contact information with, I don't use the same mannerisms or speech. Frankly if I have a SMS conversation with someone, I won't be discussing the same thing on MSN or vice versa. Chances of me myself switching a conversation due to availability is great, but what about users who keep those identities separate? There is still freedom for me to do as such, but wouldn't it be far easier than punching through a setting?
You know back in the day I use to rely on cnet reviews in order to assist in my hardware purchases. That was a very long time ago. That being said I subscribe to Google Tech News and ran across this gem. http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol This is by far the most hilarious review of Windows Phone I've come across yet. I mean seriously this woman spent two weeks with the phone and got out of it what an average person may have in the first 3 hours. Absolutely priceless and comical if you regularly use this device and have a 3 digit IQ. After reading this thing I feel like a rocket scientist for being able to find my Skydrive Camera Roll in my Pictures Hub. Yes, it's that good.
P.S. - Considering there are people like this out there and dare I say they are the majority perhaps Microsoft should consider building a better introduction of features into the intial boot of the phone.
The WP7 UI is already simple and intuitive, shouldn't be really hard to use. But yeah, there should be a quick guide after phone setup since most people (including this woman) probably don't read the quick start guide first before using the product.
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
well, i'm sure brandon watson wouldn't mind donating that 1k anyway
a better PR move will be to donate that 1k, after the user tried it, regardless of whether he/she likes it or not
creates positive publicity at the end
Aphasaic2002 said:
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
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Agreed.
And her comments regarding Bing Map, Turn-by-turn navigation and Skyfire are unfortunately valid.
She did note that she didn't bother search for anything. She just tried to use the phone without digging into anything.
She didn't know what the hotmail email icon was or how to turn it off.. when it is only 3 taps away.
She couldn't find facebook chat even though it is integrated into messaging.. she just didn't *look* for anything.
Her primary criticisms are completely valid, though.
1. Turn by Turn should not require user interaction after a course is set
2. speech to text should be built more into the OS instead of limited to a few basic functions
3. it is difficult to access skydrive if you're not using it to open office documents or browse pictures. There's no universal cloud access for general purposes made available in the OS.. which is also a valid complaint.
4. It's not very simple to make a playlist in the Zune player.. you can't just long press on a song or an album and add it to a playlist.. you can only generate a playlist from your "now playing" internal playlist (you can save this as a new playlist) or using SmartDJ.
Most of these things aren't a big deal to me. Thankfully there is a "how to" section included in build 7720 for new users to go over the basic functions.
It's very easy to use, imo.. and is laid out in a way that makes sense.. but the average user isn't going to find every single little feature without help.
Andrmgic said:
She did note that she didn't bother search for anything. She just tried to use the phone without digging into anything.
She didn't know what the hotmail email icon was or how to turn it off.. when it is only 3 taps away.
She couldn't find facebook chat even though it is integrated into messaging.. she just didn't *look* for anything.
Her primary criticisms are completely valid, though.
1. Turn by Turn should not require user interaction after a course is set
2. speech to text should be built more into the OS instead of limited to a few basic functions
3. it is difficult to access skydrive if you're not using it to open office documents or browse pictures. There's no universal cloud access for general purposes made available in the OS.. which is also a valid complaint.
4. It's not very simple to make a playlist in the Zune player.. you can't just long press on a song or an album and add it to a playlist.. you can only generate a playlist from your "now playing" internal playlist (you can save this as a new playlist) or using SmartDJ.
Most of these things aren't a big deal to me. Thankfully there is a "how to" section included in build 7720 for new users to go over the basic functions.
It's very easy to use, imo.. and is laid out in a way that makes sense.. but the average user isn't going to find every single little feature without help.
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This is supposed to be a professional review. As such, there is a duty to find actual answers and solutions to problems. Sure, it is ok for her to try and do things without reading or looking for help. It is not ok to end a review without providing those answers or solutions.
This is juvenile journalism. It is sad that the current level of technology journalism has regressed instead of progressed. If our current journalists were to be compared to operating systems, they would be somewhere between DOS and Windows 3.1.
Many of the things she stated, as a journalist, were simply poor observations. The statements she made about Zune Pass should make that abundantly clear. She has no clue. I don't care if she is "considered" an Android guru. Who gave her that crown? I would love to go over her Android skills, if I only had that much time. If this review is any indication of her skills, she is a hack.
naplesbill said:
This is supposed to be a professional review. As such, there is a duty to find actual answers and solutions to problems. Sure, it is ok for her to try and do things without reading or looking for help. It is not ok to end a review without providing those answers or solutions.
This is juvenile journalism. It is sad that the current level of technology journalism has regressed instead of progressed. If our current journalists were to be compared to operating systems, they would be somewhere between DOS and Windows 3.1.
Many of the things she stated, as a journalist, were simply poor observations. The statements she made about Zune Pass should make that abundantly clear. She has no clue. I don't care if she is "considered" an Android guru. Who gave her that crown? I would love to go over her Android skills, if I only had that much time. If this review is any indication of her skills, she is a hack.
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Amen! You know this whole thing of being PC on the internet allows some pretty assnine people to become prevalent personlities in the tech scene with almost zero credibility. Just cuse some chick can find the on button on an Android device does not make her a guru.
Aphasaic2002 said:
If you read the first part of the review, or any of her previous articles, you'll find she's actually closer to an Android power user. She is not dumb in any way.
Sorry but you can't blame the user on this one; if she couldn't find stuff in 2 weeks, it's because the OS is at fault.
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Sorry, but this is not how a professional reviewer works. One thing is claiming that some feature or functionality is not supported on the device. Another entirely different one is to say that it is indeed supported, but it is hard to find or know how to do.
It should have been her job to make sure what she can and she cannot do on the phone, and if it was too hard to find, then say so, but DO NOT say its not supported or that it cannot be done. Shame on her for this.
I doubt she used d phone for more than an hour. Hoe can u miss out on those things when ur a techie? D article is biased and no effort was put into it whatsoever.
How ever, android is more straight forward w its 'pc' like interface.. For me, I use a PC almost 10hours a day. Don't want a phone that resembles my desktop.. That's where wp7 cones in.
Sent from my LG Optimus 7
wow
this is one DUMB broad
Alrighty then
I would never trust a review with a woman with such a freakishly large left shoulder.
The chip is weighting the other one down.
I'm using Mango 7720 and i never had random reboots on my hd7
I'm using my phone without rebooting for a week without any problems
In Germany we say: "Frauen und Technik" xD
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
shades of OJ??
I'm reminded of a certain someone trying on a pair a gloves. He didn't *want* them to fit, so he made it difficult for them to fit, thus "proving" they didn't. Molly seems to be looking for ways to make her WP experience as disagreeable as possible. She wants it to fall short of Android, so she focuses on all the ways its not Android. She's clearly lost some credibility in my eyes.
There are rumours this will be turned into an ad campaign, time will tell.
The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.
ohgood said:
The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.
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I don't get your point at all. How are the "really" ads more true to life than this? This is not a survey, these are real life scenarios, have you even watched the video?
ohgood said:
The "really" ad was true to life and not a rigged survey like this one is, but hey, we're talking marketing soooooooo... it should get interesting.
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I don't think it's rigged dude...
Nope. MS should just watch iphone ads and copy them
For example: an iphone ad will be something like "with the iphone you can do, x, y, z" with video on how to do them all in the ad.
With WP7 ads sometimes even I have no idea what they are trying to do, or even then how to do it (the guy shopping with his kids typing in a document in skydrive). Keep it simple and to the point.
pillsburydoughman said:
Nope. MS should just watch iphone ads and copy them
For example: an iphone ad will be something like "with the iphone you can do, x, y, z" with video on how to do them all in the ad.
With WP7 ads sometimes even I have no idea what they are trying to do, or even then how to do it (the guy shopping with his kids typing in a document in skydrive). Keep it simple and to the point.
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I totally agree with copying what Apple does, it's just great and Google has started doing it too (for non-Android services) but the above video is still miles better than all the generic stuff Microsoft has been doing so far.
cool video. It wasn't rigged but the contestants were obviously not prepared.
First test the guy could have stopped the app and it would have found the song.
The others didn't make use of their widgets, instead they went looking for the app.
Nice try though.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Well you're right, but the whole point of the contest is to show how on WP7 you don't have to look for a way to do things faster (like stopping soundhound).
vetvito said:
cool video. It wasn't rigged but the contestants were obviously not prepared.
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Agreed.
First test the guy could have stopped the app and it would have found the song.
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Couldn't the WP7 guy as well? Wouldn't a fair test be both to run its course?
The others didn't make use of their widgets, instead they went looking for the app.
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Agreed. Again, not prepared. I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
Nice try though.
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I love this campaign. It has more meaning than the "really" one which is entertaining but does not really show anything. The one great thing about the iPhone/iPad ads are they fully demonstrate the products' capabilities. The Macs take that entertaining approach.
Has my thumbs up.
nicksti said:
I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
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To Me the WP won if it was based on who said uploading first now as far as the completed task there are many other variables like which image was larger thus taking longer to post to twitter.
rruffman said:
To Me the WP won if it was based on who said uploading first now as far as the completed task there are many other variables like which image was larger thus taking longer to post to twitter.
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Either way, this campaign drives the message home:
"Get in, get out, get on with your life."
Peew971 said:
I don't get your point at all. How are the "really" ads more true to life than this? This is not a survey, these are real life scenarios, have you even watched the video?
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The "really" ads showed people staring at their phones, walking into doors, refusing sex, etc which is true to life.
The survey is neither scientific nor prepared users other than the surveyor offering a $100 bet. He decides the task, instead of an impartial third party. Give an impartial third party the opportunity to decide random tasks, it will be very different and less dramatic.
^ this is why I said its marketing, soooooo you know.
LOL, everybody on here that's mad and complaining got smoked by a Windows Phone.
sinister1 said:
LOL, everybody on here that's mad and complaining got smoked by a Windows Phone.
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now that's funnay, sigline updated !
nicksti said:
Agreed.I was shocked the iPhone beat the WP7 with its straight to camera ability. But then I remembered iOS5.
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Click to collapse
We'll see:
http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-locked-mode-camera-access-in-smartphones
I seem to remember some iFan reporting on iOS 5 and how one of the reasons it was so much better than Windows Phone was because you could access the camera from the lock screen. He was oblivious that WP7 had done this first, and a year earlier, and would have had serious egg on his face if anyone had ever bothered correcting him.
drokkon said:
We'll see:
http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-locked-mode-camera-access-in-smartphones
I seem to remember some iFan reporting on iOS 5 and how one of the reasons it was so much better than Windows Phone was because you could access the camera from the lock screen. He was oblivious that WP7 had done this first, and a year earlier, and would have had serious egg on his face if anyone had ever bothered correcting him.
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There was a nokia something or other years ago that did this. Not that it matters who was first, its an awesome feature reguardless !
The ads were interesting and did prove some points, but too social network-centered. Come on, you don't choose a phone just because it allows you to quickly post stuff to Twitter. I don't facebook and post to Twitter twice a month, so this is hardly useful. And cameras on most Windows phones suck, especially first-generation models.
No mentions of
- integrated Office
- contact grouping (Android 4 does something like this, but WP7 is better)
- best-of-class email (reading large emails is much better in WP7 than Android)
Now if they did some other real-world scenarios:
- Use turn-by-turn navigation without distracting (Android navigation is a lot better)
- Load an Ajax-heavy page over a crappy network connection (Opera Mini obviously wins)
- Use a non-facebook online messenger, such as Google Talk or ICQ, or a non-integrated social network
- Uploading a bunch of documents for later reference with a USB cable instead of using Skydrive or email
- Identifying a random object (sorry, Bing Vision is pathetic compared to Google Goggles)
- Making a Skype call
- Switching between third-party apps without them losing state
that would make the competition a lot more interesting!
Or if they offered contestants to propose the challenge instead of the predefined scenarios.
ohgood said:
The "really" ads showed people staring at their phones, walking into doors, refusing sex, etc which is true to life.
The survey is neither scientific nor prepared users other than the surveyor offering a $100 bet. He decides the task, instead of an impartial third party. Give an impartial third party the opportunity to decide random tasks, it will be very different and less dramatic.
^ this is why I said its marketing, soooooo you know.
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Click to collapse
I don't think I have walked into doors or been refused sex - so don't seem like that's a real life situation for me!
Anyways, if you did read about the 'survey' which was a challenge as a matter of fact - you would have known. The 'survey' wasn't meant to be scientific or wasn't meant to compared the 'cores' of phones. We know the hardware boasting of android is much above par. Dual cores, nearly 2ghz sorta processor etc etc.
What the challenge was to show that, yeah whatever funky hardware you carry in your pocket, let's just do something we do daily and we will see who can do it faster. Yes the incentive was $100. But it is completely wrong to say that 'he chose' the tasks. The tasks were mutually agreed by both and generally the task that the challenger thought he does daily with his phone and is happy doing it was performed as a challenge. For example if someone was so much into tweeting all the time on his dual core high end Android phone, he was challenged to do so against Windows Phone and get smoked!
Ideally if I was challenging WindowsPhone I wouldn't want a random dude to tell me what I should try. Instead asking the user to do what he does daily is scientifically even more challenging. You are not only challenging the cognitive brain but also challenging the routine co-ordination the user has already mastered on his phone. Thus the users who tweet regularly would ideally have the 'widget' somewhere pinned down. If they din't it's sad. But then it shows how the users are used to going into the 'app drawer' even for things they do daily or very frequently. Whereas a WindowsPhone user can pin it in a similar way as any other OS user too. But the fact that is very clear is - Only a few Pinned Live tiles covered ALL or Majority of tasks that any other OS user performed routinely. Thus, you don't need to clutter you screen with widgets, but live tiles (few) will let you do a plenty!
---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
zlogic42 said:
The ads were interesting and did prove some points, but too social network-centered. Come on, you don't choose a phone just because it allows you to quickly post stuff to Twitter. I don't facebook and post to Twitter twice a month, so this is hardly useful. And cameras on most Windows phones suck, especially first-generation models.
No mentions of
- integrated Office
- contact grouping (Android 4 does something like this, but WP7 is better)
- best-of-class email (reading large emails is much better in WP7 than Android)
Now if they did some other real-world scenarios:
- Use turn-by-turn navigation without distracting (Android navigation is a lot better)
- Load an Ajax-heavy page over a crappy network connection (Opera Mini obviously wins)
- Use a non-facebook online messenger, such as Google Talk or ICQ, or a non-integrated social network
- Uploading a bunch of documents for later reference with a USB cable instead of using Skydrive or email
- Identifying a random object (sorry, Bing Vision is pathetic compared to Google Goggles)
- Making a Skype call
- Switching between third-party apps without them losing state
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 is much less distracting than Googles one. You only hear the annoying woman when you tap and need it. Else it smoothly shows the directions to you. But probably that was no possible anyway unless they go on driving from CES to McD and then to CES!
Do you load Ajax-heavey pages daily? I think loading documents will be done easily and quickly via email. The task for fixed, not the method. So if aim was upload documents - WP7 would have done much faster and safer way using the hotspot connectivity they had. Certain third-party apps like skype, googles and many google services would have surely made WP7 stumble but obviously they could come back with - Ok let's get your XBOX achievements on your android phone? Or let's play assassin's creed or any WP7 only app/games on your phone? - that doesn't look like would have worked!
drupad2drupad said:
Do you load Ajax-heavey pages daily?
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I do, every day. Reading news on the bus/train, while most websites include tons of widgets (Facebook like, Tweet this, +1 etc), ads and inefficiently formatted HTML makes surfing the web with a real browser (instead of Opera Mini) unusable, especially in non-3G areas. I don't need AJAX features, but they do use a lot of traffic and not all websites provide a decent mobile-friendly version. Even forums without tons of AJAX still load much faster in Opera Mini. Online stores, cinema sites, forums - all load slowly, sometimes even on a 3G connection.
If you need to search an answer for something that's not integrated in WP7's Bing features, it's going to be so slow over 2G that most people give up and call a friend to google it on a regular computer.
IE on WP7 however is a very good browser UI-wise, I'd call it the best I've seen on a smartphone.
I do agree with your other points, but the ads could've shown much more features - like voice recognition (in cases where both phones support it), making a call, sending a text or email with the restaurant address. No mentioning of the live tiles or lockscreen displaying the number of unread messages, or the next appointment. Something like 80% of the ads displayed taking a picture and/or posting to social networks. Both Android 4 and iOS 5 already made taking a picture easy right from the lockscreen and posting stuff to social networks right on the spot is not a top priority for most people. It's a nice feature, but email/text is much more important in real life.
Damn the hate on this forum even extends to this competition. I don't remotely see how this was rigged, this was all stuff I do on a daily basis: post to twitter, take pictures and upload them to twitter/fb, etc... Not to mention, the image sizes had nothing to do with this, as the taste was completed when the picture was submitted, not when the upload completed. And, both basically took identical pictures of each other.
Otherwise we will get big mess here in few months.
Since problems and solution will be different for both systems it will be hard to find correct information.
What do you think?
galtom said:
Otherwise we will get big mess here in few months.
Since problems and solution will be different for both systems it will be hard to find correct information.
What do you think?
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I agree. At the moment I have to comb through the comments to find which o/s they relate to.
The Windows (Win8 + RT) forums don't have much traffic. Splitting into smaller forums will make it worse, as traffic will be further chopped up, and forums need a certain traffic volume to be self-sustainable. People are more likely to participate--as I'm responding to you right now--when there are postings to reply to, even if it isn't wholly on-topic.
On/off-topic is a means to an end, the end being to allow users to easily find the info they're looking for. That doesn't happen if there's no info (no traffic) to speak of. If traffic were high, then segregration is desirable. If it's a ghost town, then consolidation is better, just to get more people talking and participating.
Anyway, it's a bit of a moot point, because even outside of here, there's not much happening for Metro.
Aside: I applaud what netham45 and GoodDayToDie are doing on the RT dev front. It's what XDA is about. But from the larger view, I don't see any momentum for Metro. As it is now, it's not suitable to host desktop-type software (read: rich productivity applications), and MS in all its wisdom has locked down the platform ala Apple, driving away garage devs when it needs them the most. Why would devs bother, when Win8/RT devices are expensive, the platform is locked down, and there's no market demand?
So, I wonder when you mention "in a few months." Hardware availability will get better, and prices will (slowly) drop, but I don't see a large surge to adopt Win8 or RT--especially RT. It'll still be a slow slog, like what we've seen over the holidays.
I'm watching Surface Pro with interest. It's basically the flagship for the whole Win8 effort. A lot of hype and hope are bestowed upon it. I'm not optimistic that people will shell out $1K for it, when ultrabooks as a category has largely failed at the same price point for the last two years. Let's see how it fares.
Temporary Fix
For now wouldn't it be sufficient to prefix posts with either "X86" or "RT" - then it might be easier to find those of interest to the person searching for info - also easier to search. This was done in many of the Android dev forums that I participate in and it helped a lot.
Just my humble thought
I wouldn't mind if there was just one more forum added for Windows RT development.
The 'Surface RT' subforum should be renamed to 'Windows RT Devices', too.
docfreed said:
For now wouldn't it be sufficient to prefix posts with either "X86" or "RT" - then it might be easier to find those of interest to the person searching for info - also easier to search. This was done in many of the Android dev forums that I participate in and it helped a lot.
Just my humble thought
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Click to collapse
This would definitely help
the problem with those headers is that people don't use them or forget what they are supposed to use or just make up new ones which confuses the hell out of everyone
a much better idea is to tag your threads with key words that are relevant
ill start adding tags to popular existing threads if it helps but we should all get in to the habit of doing it to start with
with x64 just an extension of x86 id propose a simple x86 or ARM tag to id posts, like ive done to this one