Develop Bugs

[Q] is just me. or marketplace for wp7 is just full of junk?

Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...

No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?

No it's not just you ... there is alot of rubbish out there but to be fair ... I wouldn't say 90%. There are a few decent bit.
I was expecting this and imagine it will only get better as MS have given this OS some motherly love as opposed to WM

Infuriated-Germ said:
it will only get better as MS have given this OS some motherly love as opposed to WM
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Nice. So we can expect some good 'Fart' applications in the near future ?

no offense, but how many apps in the apple market or android market are actually any good??? Not very many.
1. HTC has a connections config app, if you didn't buy an htc phone then shame on you.
2. There is a voip app in the marketplace, someone else was talking about it.
3. You do know the OS is less than a month old right???

OK, I have used the Palm market place, the Itunes app store, the android market and the windows market and I have found that in all cases 90% of the apps are rubbish or variations on a theme (tip calculators for the numerically challenged etc.). I am waiting for only 1 app which has been promised - Kindle!!!

That's what makes Apple's app store so laughable. They occasionally announce that there's a bazillion or so apps in their store but 98% of them are rubbish. I suspect the WP7 market will most likely mirror that and it probably should. The alternative is to become Apple and turn things down because "there's too many of those" or "there's no good reason for this" or the worst, no reason at all. Where Apple's store really fails is their rating system. If Microsoft can identify and correct that weakness they'll definitely have an upper hand.

Its the same in every market. No matter where you go there will be junk.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Johny1969 said:
Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you expect to see configuration tweaking apps for the OS that has been locked down like a Ft. Knox?
BTW, happy anniversary.

arturobandini said:
No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?
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Click to collapse
Exactly what is the deal with that? That is crazy. Cant even get a decent checkbook app

arturobandini said:
No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another example are currency converters. The funny thing is that I still have to find one that works correctly with German localization...

I just need a good IM app and the Kindle app and im set. Hopefully the IM app supports multiple logins on all platforms.

Isn't it the developers spewing out these applications that are to blame? If someone is so foolish as to pay a $99 fee only to produce a fart application at the end of it, why is it MS's fault? If they rejected the devs work then people would moan that MS is censoring people, big brother, etc. Just let market forces play their part, crap will sink and quality applications will rise by word of mouth and reviews by users.

efjay said:
Isn't it the developers spewing out these applications that are to blame? If someone is so foolish as to pay a $99 fee only to produce a fart application at the end of it, why is it MS's fault? If they rejected the devs work then people would moan that MS is censoring people, big brother, etc. Just let market forces play their part, crap will sink and quality applications will rise by word of mouth and reviews by users.
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They produce the fart app for you in order to get back that 99 dollars as soon as possible.
Do you think real developers do not want to create good apps? They just need to be interested in what the users want and what they can accomplished with the SDK provided by the manufacturer to satisfy the users' wants.
I suggest for you guys to create a thread, and possibly stick it, on what you want on your device, and get a feedback from developers how easy or difficult it is going to be to implement it,

Johny1969 said:
Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying the Android market isn't full of junk? When I perused the Android market, I say 90% filler, including sex app after sex app. And I saw personal quote apps a plenty.

MartyLK said:
So are you saying the Android market isn't full of junk? When I perused the Android market, I say 90% filler, including sex app after sex app. And I saw personal quote apps a plenty.
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Stop bringing Android, no need to stir it this way, the thread is about WP7 market.

it goes like this...eventually as the good developers port their apps over to WP7, and the so-so developers get better as they become accustomed to the platform,...the apps on the market will get better. And those apps that are "rubbish" will eventually fade away.
And yes, if you think the WP7 market place is rubbish, there's no doubt that all that rubbish is on every other phone's market place as well...just more of it

lol, I registered to answer this question.
Alot of people are correct in this thread.. Developers are just try to quickly recoup their $99 investment. There is some low lying fruit that can quickly make a buck in a marketplace that has relatively no competition. Flashlights / farts / quotes / bartenders / etc are very easy to make and are a good introduction to new wp7 developers.
What I really came here to say though, is that there is a BIG onus on US to review and rate these apps. We should rate and review every single app we use. Even if you give it a low rating it will push apps that noone even bought lower on the list. I've seen a few free apps with 0 reviews.. this should not happen.
I have an app in development that should be above mediocre, but it takes time and I only got my device for testing 2 days ago. So be patient, we're churning them out.

itchison said:
lol, I registered to answer this question.
Alot of people are correct in this thread.. Developers are just try to quickly recoup their $99 investment. There is some low lying fruit that can quickly make a buck in a marketplace that has relatively no competition. Flashlights / farts / quotes / bartenders / etc are very easy to make and are a good introduction to new wp7 developers.
What I really came here to say though, is that there is a BIG onus on US to review and rate these apps. We should rate and review every single app we use. Even if you give it a low rating it will push apps that noone even bought lower on the list. I've seen a few free apps with 0 reviews.. this should not happen.
I have an app in development that should be above mediocre, but it takes time and I only got my device for testing 2 days ago. So be patient, we're churning them out.
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Thank you for this bit of reminder. Even when I was in Android, I made good use of the rating system...in WinMo on the HD2 also...and I most of the time forgot to rate them myself.

All these app stores, Apple, Android and Microsoft's, suffer the same problem that there's a glut of garbage in them. I can't speak for Android's as I haven't used it in ages but the problem with Apple's is their lousy rating and review system and poor (if any) filtering. I suspect the Apple and Android stores will probably always look like the software version of a garage sale but my hope is that Microsoft identifies and comes up with a good solution to the problem. Being able to sort based on units sold over a period of time, for example, would cause the real trash to immediately sink to the bottom and out of sight regardless of rating. A great fart board is still a fart board, for example, and how many of any individual app is going to be sold? Out of sight, out of mind.

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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Click to collapse
I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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Click to collapse
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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Click to collapse
there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

Good read / Interview with a MS Exec about WP7

found this interesting because of the on going flop thread...
http://wmpoweruser.com/official-1-5...ped-faster-than-original-iphone-a-good-start/

well he's saying that the manufacturers sold 1.5 million to the carriers, not actual people, so if people don't buy the phone it will just sit on the shelves.
They need people to go to the stores and buy these phones!
but this is great news for WP7, and I do think they have a good product, let's hope they force google to ramp up their product as well.

^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.

vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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but I think that that will change real fast

vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?

I think Google and Apple are taking notice, MS is nothing to ignore, look what they did to apple in the computer OS world, now they're doing it again.
Take Apple's business model and UI and kang it to run more efficiently and universally, that's what they did with their computer OS and it looks like that's what they're doing with WP7.

Not to mention most stores have very low stock so most of the 1.5 million phones are most likely in the hands of consumers..

lekki said:
How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?
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Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
Just a little piece of what's coming next year:
IPhone 5
IOS5
Nexus 2(not s)
Ipad 2
EVO 2
HTC Knight(maybe the same as EVO 2)
honeycomb
Maybe even cdma iPhone
Galaxy S2
That's just a small part of the competition. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.

vetvito said:
Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
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There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.

froesei said:
There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.
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You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.

vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.

WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.

froesei said:
It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.
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That's another good point. I didn't even look at it from that point of view.
However IOS has become too blah, and IOS 5 or maybe 6 will address this. You can't beat Apple by following the same road.
What's innovative in WP7? When they allow the unreal engine, things will be more interesting.

orangekid said:
WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.
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That's highly opinionated. However your other points are correct. The Pre2 was a nail in the coffin.

vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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doesn't rim own like 24% of the smartphone market?

No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw

vetvito said:
No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw
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That's just one quarter's worth of numbers. RIM still has the most smartphones in use in the US right now.

RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.

What you're missing is that the vast majority of the 1.5 million units _sold_ by manufacturers are actually also sold to end-users - as we all know a lot of stockists worldwide are on backorder at the moment.
I personally know several developers (myself being one) that did not get their hands on an actual device until after the six week mark due to low stock locally - this from people across three continents.
Worth mentioning is also that two weeks out of those six there was hardly any stock at all anywhere as manufacturers only part-delivered what was initially ordered from the carriers in Europe and Australia. It was only just before the US launch that they were able to even start meeting demand.
Looking at the raw figures though, compared to the iOS and Android launches, I would say these sales are on par. Of course that's not an entirely fair comparison as more people, overall, are buying smartphones today than they did back then but still.

vetvito said:
RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.
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I was about to get on you... Its a pretty well known fact that RIM holds the majority stake in the smartphone market. Been that way for awhile now. Don't know how much longer that will be but if WP7 got to that level I think itd be considered a great success.

Gizmodo on Windows Phone 7

Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.

So far been pretty good reviews out there, really like how Gizmodo shows off the features in the video.

keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
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It's very nice they like it. But this "unless there's a a radical "Android redesign" is equally silly and shows they're not really serious.

Reading such positive reviews is great, normally Gizmodo has been very critical of the OS.

Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.

Didn't gizmodo originally like WP7? I remember a billboard here in the UK with the Gizmodo quote "This changes everything"... Then after launch they proceeded to slag it off at any opportunity.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/

Everything looks good except for the multi-tasking feature...
It looks like iOS... it'll be nicer if its vert-scrolling like the main screen.

ryude said:
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
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If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
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xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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So by recommending Android basically they are saying no other phone is worth buying? I find that to be biased, since I have used and even developed for Android in the past. I happen to like WP7 more now, I would have never figured that out by asking sales reps I had to learn that myself.

keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
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500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.

ohgood said:
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
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I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.

xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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I have seen some pretty piss poor analogies but this one takes the cake. The correlation makes absolutely no sense, and assigning a "brand" to bananas is crazy. But congrats Dole, people believe a sticker make your product better than Chiquita, or any other "generic" banana (what exactly is a generic banana?) which could have very well been picked off the same tree (since they also import bananas as well).
By the way, you walk in Best Buy and they are pushing Playbooks at you. That means they are the best option available?
There are more than a handful of customer associates that recommend what is in their best interests.

keyboardP said:
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
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excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.

ohgood said:
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that WP7 should be praised and others condemned. Every platform has its pros and cons (and it would be nice to not have any obvious bias in articles), but there's been, IMO, some unjust biased against WP7 in many mainstream articles simply because it has the MS tag on it.
I agree about the hard numbers as it's what's keeping a lot of developers away. There are some big names coming through though (Amazon, Angry Birds, PopCap etc..), so there may be something. I think a lot of devs, including myself, are getting some apps out there for now, hoping that Mango really delivers.
iPhone certainly has a market, but with a Mac required to develop for it, it seems a bit too much of a barrier for me. Android is okay to develop for, and I loved the openness of pretty much being able to do what you wanted. However, despite the market share of Android, there's still not much evidence that developers can make any real money either. There are too many free apps which do the same as paid apps and when users are conditioned to believe everything should be free on your platform, that's not great for devs. I thought it was interesting that Angry Birds went for a free, ad-based model rather than a paid model considering they had already had a following. Any new IPs trying to do something similar probably won't have the same large following, thus making the ad revenue pretty low.

ohgood said:
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
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Isn't the Windows Marketplace growing at an unprecedented rate? Fact or fiction? So why do poor sales matter to you? It seems like it is only for bragging rights since Windows Phone has had no shortage of app development or software updates.
I understand all the good reasons why strong sales are desireous. But at this point in time it does not matter to you if your neighbour did not buy a Windows Phone. The phone is still progressing at a positive rate.

Currently 24,447 apps in the window phone marketplace. That's huge considering it's only been out since October/November of last year? We could see 50,000 apps by the end of this year. With Mango's 1500 new API's and better live tile support/multi-tasking I see apps only becoming better and better.

xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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I have seen some pretty stupid things posted in this forum, but this has to be the dumbest. You're basically saying that Android is the "nice Dole banana" and WP is the "trash," and therefore, all sales reps are just doing their job by offering Android only and pushing you away from WP? Some of you people man... If you don't like the platform, just shut up... Touching on the actual topic, not only have I seen good reviews, but extensive ones, which I prefer much more... Whether the opinion is good or bad, I appreciate them taking a great deal of time outlining the platform...

Lets talk... Why are there so many lackluster apps on the marketplace?

I was recently pondering this question of "Why are there so many lackluster apps on the marketplace?" while I was looking into improvements for my app.
It really does seem that there are only a hundred or so, really inspiring Metro based apps on the WP7 marketplace, and Im not sure why. Even many of the developers who are active with their apps have truly un-inspiring visual apps, or downright stripped functionality. Im not sure why, granted you see a similar pattern with Android, which from what I can tell is much worse, but WHY? These developers are just one-off releasing apps, they are most commonly very active.
Just thought I would see if anyone had any input on this.

Its like that on all market places. Did you think there was over 500,000 aw inspiring apps?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

How many things
I have pondered the high number of apps for quite some time as well, but I approached it from another angle:
Think about it like this: How many different things can you possibly do with a smartphone? Well, quite a lot, obviously, but interestingly as soon as I start to enumerate, I run into problems to continue pretty soon. Maybe I can name 100 different things to "do" with a smartphone.
Now, say I forget a lot of things, and other people do other things than me anyway, and there will be new things that nobody has thought of so far, so let's take this times 10 and proclaim that you can use a smartphone for a full one thousand different things. (I would really love to see this list.)
If you cover each thing with, say, 10 different apps, so people have choice and can take the app the like, and there is healthy competition, we arrive a grand total number of 10'000 apps that make sense - ever. Anything beyond that is simply too much.
If you think 1'000 things to do with your smartphone is way too low I would challenge you to list 1'000 things that you do in your daily life, overall and in general, with your smartphone or otherwise - our lives are quite interesting, but there are limits of what we all do.
Ok, now let's be generous and throw in 50'000 different games which are not subject of things that must make sense, after all you can just invent and invent new variants of games.
That absolute upper limit of 60'000 apps or so is pretty low compared with the contents of the app stores, isn't it?

^ it is low, but you have to add in the different region apps too, different languages, and all of their variations. Thus the huge number of apps.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

rbrunner7 said:
I have pondered the high number of apps for quite some time as well, but I approached it from another angle:
Think about it like this: How many different things can you possibly do with a smartphone? Well, quite a lot, obviously, but interestingly as soon as I start to enumerate, I run into problems to continue pretty soon. Maybe I can name 100 different things to "do" with a smartphone.
Now, say I forget a lot of things, and other people do other things than me anyway, and there will be new things that nobody has thought of so far, so let's take this times 10 and proclaim that you can use a smartphone for a full one thousand different things. (I would really love to see this list.)
If you cover each thing with, say, 10 different apps, so people have choice and can take the app the like, and there is healthy competition, we arrive a grand total number of 10'000 apps that make sense - ever. Anything beyond that is simply too much.
If you think 1'000 things to do with your smartphone is way too low I would challenge you to list 1'000 things that you do in your daily life, overall and in general, with your smartphone or otherwise - our lives are quite interesting, but there are limits of what we all do.
Ok, now let's be generous and throw in 50'000 different games which are not subject of things that must make sense, after all you can just invent and invent new variants of games.
That absolute upper limit of 60'000 apps or so is pretty low compared with the contents of the app stores, isn't it?
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Click to collapse
1:Manage your bank account....how many different banks are out there.
2:Follow your local news....how many tv station, radio station, newspapers.
3:Follow your favorite sports team...how many teams out there.
4:Manage you reservations....for every hotel, rental car, airline.
5:Stream video....from every network, internet service, cable/satellite provider, your own network at home.
Now, how many tens of thousands of apps would it take just to cover those 5 functions that you can do with your smartphone?

Millions of apps
66stang351 said:
Now, how many tens of thousands of apps would it take just to cover those 5 functions that you can do with your smartphone?
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Yeah, I know, let me guestimate that there are maybe 10'000 large cities on this planet. Then you have 10'000 "Map of City x" apps, plus another 10'000 "Public Transport Time Table for City x", and again 10'000 "Coming Events in City x", and on and on.
Of course this brings up all kinds of questions, e.g. whether it really makes sense to turn all these things into an app where a website would perfectly do, but anyway, I concede you have a point.
I developped the habit to check all the new apps that appear in the Marketplace daily, and of course I see many apps of this type appear, but in my estimate at least half of the apps are just "garbage".
And what really makes me sad: Usually many days pass until I find a new app that really surprises me, an app with a real idea if you know what I mean, where somebody found something new - a rare gem of creativity. All that time spent building apps, what must amount to man centuries even, and then this meager result - it's a shame.

It's a growing thing. When Android and iOS were first released, there weren't many lackluster applications for awhile. Currently, developers are just trying to get everything on Windows Phone 7 that is already on Android and iOS...to include tools, games, instant messaging platforms, etc. Once they've caught up, then the developers will start using creativity.
It's not really a problem, just give it time

PoorCollegeGuy said:
It's a growing thing. When Android and iOS were first released, there weren't many lackluster applications for awhile. Currently, developers are just trying to get everything on Windows Phone 7 that is already on Android and iOS...to include tools, games, instant messaging platforms, etc. Once they've caught up, then the developers will start using creativity.
It's not really a problem, just give it time
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Don't you think its due to lack of API restricted by MS that not want to allow developer to work on!!

Just me maybe but i hardly even look at the market anymore.
Sent from my LG-P920 using xda premium

Well I rather lackluster apps than the other side of things shown here. Kind of explains why if you do not have one of the really popular Android phones why you may see more force closes than someone holding a SGS2.

taruian said:
Don't you think its due to lack of API restricted by MS that not want to allow developer to work on!!
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I totally agree with the API restrictions. It has kept me from making an app i really want to but on the other hand I as a developer feel that having eye candy in your app is a must. My specific type of apps for WP7 make the Android and iPhone users jealous as they dont have eye candy apps in that genre in their marketplaces. Also a lot of devs try to push many apps out for the money. Like if you include ads in your apps. The more apps the revenue you can earn as its a numbers game. So i think they rush on the design part.

vetvito said:
Its like that on all market places. Did you think there was over 500,000 aw inspiring apps?
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^This. Is there any objective evidence the amount of dross in the MSFT app store is any more than any other OS' app store?
People like to see their name in lights. It's as simple as that. Someone barely cobbles together an app with their meager programing skills and uploads it just to see their name in the app store.

sitizenx said:
^This. Is there any objective evidence the amount of dross in the MSFT app store is any more than any other OS' app store?
People like to see their name in lights. It's as simple as that. Someone barely cobbles together an app with their meager programing skills and uploads it just to see their name in the app store.
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Apple apply quality control on submitted apps. They will reject any apps that are buggy, crash or which don't serve a useful purpose. They are notoriously strict, causing quite a few famous publishing issues.
Mean while, Microsoft also have a submission possess, but not sure what it actually does? I remember reading on here about as developer that submitted 6 WP7 apps, that all just displayed a block on screen (each app was a different colour) and they all got published. A paid appstore should be no place for test apps; It's almost like MS don't care, and just want to boost their numbers..
Android market has no QA; anyone can submit anything. Most wild-west like app-store, but stuff doesn't get pulled off the store randomly like the above two.

^ you're joking about Apples QC right? That has got to be joke of the day.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

whodisname said:
Just me maybe but i hardly even look at the market anymore.
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pretty the same here. For quite some time now I have found all the apps I need and I only look for new ones (or alternatives f.e. different twitter apps etc.) very rarely, maybe when "super new, awesome app blabla" is featured on some news website.
The majority of apps I use work fine and aren't "lackluster". Just 3 or 4 I wish they would make improvements/alternative app.
Of course there are many not so good apps in the marketplace but thats a problem of every device, not even only phones. just look how much crappy software or games are available for pc.