Develop Bugs

is WP7 a Flop?

I just randomly ran across this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40717043
and didn't realize how poorly the devices are selling at launch.
I'm not trying to knock WP7 and although I prefer Android I still like WP7 a lot and do think it has the potential to contend if it can just get off its feet and convince people to get on board.
Something else I thought of was when there is a CDMA iPhone in Q1 2011, this will hamper sales of WP7 since VZW has so many customers and it seems like most will go for an LTE iPhone over a WP7 device, if only due to name-recognition.
Personally, I hope it succeeds because as I've said before, it will force Apple and Google to stay on top of their game as far as quality is concerned and it's something new and fresh and I'm always about that.
Just needs to freaking sell more.

nope its not a flop

It's not really a flop, it's just that there's so much on the market right now. When Iphone, and Android both first came out, there really wasn't all that much available that people would flock to. Even more when right now WP7 only has about 2-3 major carriers available. I think when more updates for WP7 come in, and when the other major networks receive WP7, that's when we'll see a jump in it. I get questions on WP7 all the time at work, or people telling me that they didn't like WM6.5 too much, so they aren't going to bother with WP7.

Verizon and Sprint will open up a HUGE market - especially for the "Really" crowd who don't like the prices of AT&T.. Sprint could potentially be the largest customer magnet for WP7 with their great network pricing - especially if MS incentivizes their network/phone/plans/hardware.

Apple iPhone (2007): 1,000,000 in 74 days, one phone in one country
Google G1 (2008): 600.000 in two months, one phone in two countries
Palm Pre (2009): 300,000 in one month, one phone in one country
WP7 (2010): 300,000 (?) in one month, 9 phones worldwide
Yes, it's a flop.

Opposite reason.
vbetts said:
It's not really a flop, it's just that there's so much on the market right now. When Iphone, and Android both first came out, there really wasn't all that much available that people would flock to. Even more when right now WP7 only has about 2-3 major carriers available. I think when more updates for WP7 come in, and when the other major networks receive WP7, that's when we'll see a jump in it. I get questions on WP7 all the time at work, or people telling me that they didn't like WM6.5 too much, so they aren't going to bother with WP7.
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WM 6.5.5 Energy ROM was great to me on my FUZE, I have had no problems with it (Lags, freezes etc.). The things I like about 6.5.5 I find missing in WP7. For that reason, I won't switch to WP7 until I actually see the results of the next couple of releases.

tomhierl said:
Apple iPhone (2007): 1,000,000 in 74 days, one phone in one country
Google G1 (2008): 600.000 in two months, one phone in two countries
Palm Pre (2009): 300,000 in one month, one phone in one country
WP7 (2010): 300,000 (?) in one month, 9 phones worldwide
Yes, it's a flop.
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hahaha.. the amount of devices is irrelevent when the marketshare doesn't grow per device available. (hd tv sales didn't multiply by 10 just because there were 10 different tvs on the market)
and where did you pull this 300k number from?

I'd imagine that M$ are less than happy with the sales thus far.
I know loads of people that want a WP but are not willing until M$ "finish making it".
I have been out of contract since June but I am holding out for the HTC pro 7 and copy'n'paste and most importantly- tethering.
It strikes me that part of the problem with dumbing down the OS in the name of mass appeal is the masses are only interested in the amount of apps in the app store.
If the above is correct then I guess ownership will increase in line with the increase in apps.

the amount of devices is irrelevent when the marketshare doesn't grow per device available.
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The amount of countries is and the year, too.
and where did you pull this 300k number from?
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150,000 Facebook users after one month, times 2 (assuming 50% of people log in to Facebook with their Windows Phone 7 phone).

tomhierl said:
The amount of countries is and the year, too.
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is what? most countries and carriers only offered 2 phones available in stock and a 3rd perpetually on back order. In most cases only having one device available for resale in volume.
150,000 Facebook users after one month, times 2 (assuming 50% of people log in to Facebook with their Windows Phone 7 phone).
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50% attach rate to facebook would be amazing and a huge success for everyone involved.

imaginarynumber said:
It strikes me that part of the problem with dumbing down the OS in the name of mass appeal is the masses are only interested in the amount of apps in the app store.
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what exacty is dumbed down? sure, its not 100% polished, but dumbed down?

most countries and carriers only offered 2 phones available in stock and a 3rd perpetually on back order.
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That's not true. They were widely available across Europe only a few days after launch. The rumors about limited stock were bogus. Some stores only had two or three devices, but they didn't get sold. That's a flop by any measure.
50% attach rate to facebook would be amazing and a huge success for everyone involved.
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There are 57 million iPhone users on Facebook, that's more than 50% of them.
what exacty is dumbed down? sure, its not 100% polished, but dumbed down?
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Oh come on. This hardly deserves to be called a smartphone OS and you know that.

tomhierl said:
That's not true. They were widely available across Europe only a few days after launch. The rumors about limited stock were bogus.
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And you have proof of this how?
in the US alone i couldn't get ahold of an LG or focus during launch week.
There are 57 million iPhone users on Facebook, that's more than 50% of them.
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Not if you include ipad/itouch devices..
Oh come on. This hardly deserves to be called a smartphone OS and you know that.
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Now you're just being ignorant and silly.

Oh yes that's what I am... not.
Not if you include ipad/itouch devices..
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So what? If only 20% of users log in to Facebook, that still makes less than a million WP7 phones sold in one and a half months, which is still a flop by any measure.

tomhierl said:
Oh yes that's what I am... not.
So what? If only 20% of users log in to Facebook, that still makes less than a million WP7 phones sold in one and a half months, which is still a flop by any measure.
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a flap only in your eyes
A success considering the crappy economy, a single carrier, a pricey phone with 2 year contract and a holiday season full of stiff competition.
My so called dumb wp7 smartphone does 720p video, takes 5mp pics, uploads to the cloud to save images, integrates with facebook, has a single hub for all my contacts, does netflix fantastically, has twitter/facebook/shazam/seesmic/IMDB/fandango apps, plays games, integrates with my xbox live gamertag is fast, snappy and best of all works as a phone all day long. No dropped calls, no terrible battery life, great voice/speaker quality. Its hardly a flop.
If anything WP7 reflects realistic market conditions rather than fanatic brand obsessed markets.. a year from now we'll all be laughing abnout this anyway still trying to call MS a failure just because thats all you know

Measured against overall smartphone sales, WP7 is the slowest selling OS of the last four years. Sorry, but that's what I call a flop.
The economy has been far worse when Android launched, the G1, iPhone and Pre all were only on one carrier in one or two countries, whereas WP7 is available in many countries on much better hardware and still nobody's buying it.
Your phone doesn't even let you load your files onto it. How lame is that? No wonder nobody's buying this, after all, people want their files. WP7 is a flop both technologically and in terms of sales.

tomhierl said:
Measured against overall smartphone sales, WP7 is the slowest selling OS of the last four years. Sorry, but that's what I call a flop.
Your phone doesn't even let you load your files onto it. How lame is that? No wonder nobody's buying this, after all, people want their files.
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Hahaha loading pics? seriously? Let me tell you something. I went to ATT, bought my focus, plugged in my windows live id and integrated my flickr and facebook ID with WL id and voila, 10+ years of digital photography was on my phone without me having to "load it".. Its called the Images hub and it works great and it continually integrates with services that can extend that hub. Pretty "smart" eh
BTW, until numbers are produced, you're guess is just a guess tarnished with spite and nothing else. I'm quite intrigued where this obsessive ms hate comes from!

I think the point about there being more smartphone OS's to choose from is valid. When iPhone launched it was the only one of its kind. A simple UI for non-business users that was cool, had a big ass screen, and built in iPod, I remember how "cool" everyone who had one felt.
Android came out and the only real competitor was iPhone. But you couldn't get an iPhone on the other 3 networks so tmobile opted to get a G1 on contract instead of buying a used iPhone and unlocking it.
Now let's look at what WP7 has to contend with:
1) iPhone which people love, has a simple UI, and orders of magnitude more apps available than WP7, not to mention the "cool" factor. Everyone knows there's going to be a CDMA iPhone so that is going to really take away from WP7 sales IMO because now people can get their iPhone on a decent network.
2) Android phones on EVERY network, very popular right now and getting more popular by the day. Has had almost 3 years to polish up the OS and has more UI options like Live Wallpapers, Launchers, etc... and tons more apps than WP7.
3) MS already has a bad name in the mobile world for having phones that "lag, are hard to figure out, for business users only" etc... so they are fighting that as well.
4) Advertising - IMO the ads are horrible. They showcase that supposedly iPhone and Android users have to spend more time on their phones because they don't have those big ass tiles? Come on, show us more features of the phone.
5) No front facing camera on any phone is a killer IMO, look at the iPhone 4, the Evo, Epic, MT4G, Nexus S. It's the new trend and people are liking it a lot. I am willing to bet we are going to be FLOODED with VZW Facetime over LTE ads which will crush these amazingly stupid dude jumping out of an airplane and can supposedly open his camera app like one second faster than an iPhone or Android could type ads.
For these reasons it is going to be hard for MS, they are going to lose more $ than they make and will have to keep their head above water till there are much more apps and some of these missing features.

blahism said:
a flap only in your eyes
A success considering the crappy economy, a single carrier, a pricey phone with 2 year contract and a holiday season full of stiff competition.
My so called dumb wp7 smartphone does 720p video, takes 5mp pics, uploads to the cloud to save images, integrates with facebook, has a single hub for all my contacts, does netflix fantastically, has twitter/facebook/shazam/seesmic/IMDB/fandango apps, plays games, integrates with my xbox live gamertag is fast, snappy and best of all works as a phone all day long. No dropped calls, no terrible battery life, great voice/speaker quality. Its hardly a flop.
If anything WP7 reflects realistic market conditions rather than fanatic brand obsessed markets.. a year from now we'll all be laughing abnout this anyway still trying to call MS a failure just because thats all you know
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not so sure.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2140...0_to_1_against_android_iphone_study_says.html

Hahaha loading pics?
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I said files, not pics. Don't be silly.
BTW, until numbers are produced, you're guess is just a guess tarnished with spite and nothing else.
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More numbers: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2140...0_to_1_against_android_iphone_study_says.html
You can do the math. Find out how many Android and iPhone users there are and take that times 0.0045.
I'm quite intrigued where this obsessive ms hate comes from!
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Oh, come on! MS hate? Really? WP7 a ****ty OS, plain and simple. That doesn't say anything about the rest of Microsoft's products - Windows 7 for example is great.

Very dissapointing start for WP7 :(

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good

well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.

MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.

1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things

vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/

Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.

jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.

GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!

Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome

Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.

vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]

some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!

orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.

Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.

It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.

As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.

that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).

To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.

If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.

*Sigh*, I'm starting to regret buying WP7

As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.

You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.

lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
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Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).

It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.

jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
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I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.

This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.

lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
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My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.

stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
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By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?

I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.

I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone

I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
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You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.

lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P

Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.

kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix

jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!

Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.

jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.

jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.

mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can deny it.

disastrous sales of wp7 ?

pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link

I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.

mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.

imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks

I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.

i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..

imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million

Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.

Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.

Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee

TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.

jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...

doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).

A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/

nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.

ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?

nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...

I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.

N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.

Gizmodo on Windows Phone 7

Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.

So far been pretty good reviews out there, really like how Gizmodo shows off the features in the video.

keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's very nice they like it. But this "unless there's a a radical "Android redesign" is equally silly and shows they're not really serious.

Reading such positive reviews is great, normally Gizmodo has been very critical of the OS.

Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.

Didn't gizmodo originally like WP7? I remember a billboard here in the UK with the Gizmodo quote "This changes everything"... Then after launch they proceeded to slag it off at any opportunity.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/

Everything looks good except for the multi-tasking feature...
It looks like iOS... it'll be nicer if its vert-scrolling like the main screen.

ryude said:
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So by recommending Android basically they are saying no other phone is worth buying? I find that to be biased, since I have used and even developed for Android in the past. I happen to like WP7 more now, I would have never figured that out by asking sales reps I had to learn that myself.

keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.

ohgood said:
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.

xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty piss poor analogies but this one takes the cake. The correlation makes absolutely no sense, and assigning a "brand" to bananas is crazy. But congrats Dole, people believe a sticker make your product better than Chiquita, or any other "generic" banana (what exactly is a generic banana?) which could have very well been picked off the same tree (since they also import bananas as well).
By the way, you walk in Best Buy and they are pushing Playbooks at you. That means they are the best option available?
There are more than a handful of customer associates that recommend what is in their best interests.

keyboardP said:
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.

ohgood said:
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that WP7 should be praised and others condemned. Every platform has its pros and cons (and it would be nice to not have any obvious bias in articles), but there's been, IMO, some unjust biased against WP7 in many mainstream articles simply because it has the MS tag on it.
I agree about the hard numbers as it's what's keeping a lot of developers away. There are some big names coming through though (Amazon, Angry Birds, PopCap etc..), so there may be something. I think a lot of devs, including myself, are getting some apps out there for now, hoping that Mango really delivers.
iPhone certainly has a market, but with a Mac required to develop for it, it seems a bit too much of a barrier for me. Android is okay to develop for, and I loved the openness of pretty much being able to do what you wanted. However, despite the market share of Android, there's still not much evidence that developers can make any real money either. There are too many free apps which do the same as paid apps and when users are conditioned to believe everything should be free on your platform, that's not great for devs. I thought it was interesting that Angry Birds went for a free, ad-based model rather than a paid model considering they had already had a following. Any new IPs trying to do something similar probably won't have the same large following, thus making the ad revenue pretty low.

ohgood said:
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't the Windows Marketplace growing at an unprecedented rate? Fact or fiction? So why do poor sales matter to you? It seems like it is only for bragging rights since Windows Phone has had no shortage of app development or software updates.
I understand all the good reasons why strong sales are desireous. But at this point in time it does not matter to you if your neighbour did not buy a Windows Phone. The phone is still progressing at a positive rate.

Currently 24,447 apps in the window phone marketplace. That's huge considering it's only been out since October/November of last year? We could see 50,000 apps by the end of this year. With Mango's 1500 new API's and better live tile support/multi-tasking I see apps only becoming better and better.

xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty stupid things posted in this forum, but this has to be the dumbest. You're basically saying that Android is the "nice Dole banana" and WP is the "trash," and therefore, all sales reps are just doing their job by offering Android only and pushing you away from WP? Some of you people man... If you don't like the platform, just shut up... Touching on the actual topic, not only have I seen good reviews, but extensive ones, which I prefer much more... Whether the opinion is good or bad, I appreciate them taking a great deal of time outlining the platform...